Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on June 10, 2008, 11:56:48 AM
-
As most of you know I have some rather mixed feelings on the issue of steroids and related drugs used in bodybuilding. On the pure/natural side of the debate you have the; ALL steroid use is bad, unhealthy and cheating. On the extreme , hardcore side you have the ; ya goota do a lot of juice to build a big freaky body and natural sucks belief.
How about some of the ideas that John Ramano ( and others) bring up in the film "Bigger, Stronger, Faster". Why does the steroid issue have to be an all bad or all good issue?
Why is a moderate, sensible position based on basic sense and science so hard to sell?Here is my basic postion and beliefs on the drug issue.
1. Sensible, moderate steroid use is NOT risky or a major health risk. ( Where are the dead bodies?)
2. Personal steroid use should NOT be a crime. I use prescribed Androgel and it is legal and even covered by my health ins. It keeps my testosterone levels in the ideal which is GOOD for my health. Why should anyone be convicted for simply doing what I do on legal terms.
3. A policy of open , sensible and honest use of steroids as a part of the training regime for eilte /pro athletes ( bodybuilders) should be started .
4. The drugs should be used to help support the training bodybuilder, NOT be used to extremes that alter the basic line and symmetry of the physique. Yes, an elite bodybuilder can be "too big" and should be marked down for that.
5. A bodybuilder with good genetics can develop a great physique WITHOUT drugs. Drugs simply enhance what is already there and make it bigger .Moderate, sensible steroid use can help a bodybuilder peak for a show and still remain healthy. I see no reason why the sport needs to be 100% drug free, when sensible drug use is possible.
6. The legal and political reality is at odds with good sense and solid science on the steroid issue.
The media has lumped steroids in with supplements like creatine?wtf?
Drinking booze has done more damage to society than steroids ever will. But, since it is legal , drinking is hardly news in the media. Has anyone ever killed anyone driving a car from a shot of decca or Winnie V? No! Can't say the same about the "legal shots" of booze can we ::)
I fear the a real debate is unlikely to happen at this point due to the media hype and ignoracne on this issue. The bodybuilding world is defensive and doesn't want any public scrutiny on steroids while congress wants to go on witchhunts.
I wish that an honest, open dialogue could occur and a sensible, honest policy be put in place.
I don't think our pro bodybuilders whould be trated like criminals for pushing the envelope. But, I also don't think extreme use and freak physiques should be the ideal and win the $$.
Thanks for listening, Howard
-
STOP
-
Howie,
I wish you would just focus this posting gusto on the "gayer than" thread, you'd be a great asset! ;)
-
Do you have mixed feelings about steroids ( drugs) in bodybuilding?
I'd have to actually give a shit about bodybuilding in general before I could have mixed feeling about it
thanks for listening
-
without steroids the bodys are shit
-
not flaming man, but well..you always bring the obvious things...everyone knows that....its like you are reinventing the wheel...
people are going to use steroids, with Pro bodybuilding or without...with you liking or not....
some guys like to kiss other man...some people like to kill other people....and some of them like to take 'medicines' to make their physiques bigger than they naturally would get...oh my, its the end of the world...
good that you have a brain and think about things, but lets spend our times in things that ADD something...like the 'gayer than' thread or maybe adding to the thread 'hottest college chicks'..
-
Only a matter of time before the government goes after pro bodybuilding and try to have it shut down or cleaned up. They got baseball, got football, got WWE, going to go after horse racing and sooner or later pro bodybuilding.
-
good that you have a brain and think about things, but lets spend our times in things that ADD something...like the 'gayer than' thread or maybe adding to the thread 'hottest college chicks'..
lol ;D
-
You can't change the disign Howard, I'm sorry.
Just like the old days.
Im not asking people to change
I do agree it needs to get better
And the only way to do that is
Free health care as well as steroids to use all.
Do a long term study with no BS.
-
I'd have to actually give a shit about bodybuilding in general before I could have mixed feeling about it
thanks for listening
I care about the sport and have been a bodybuilder for over 30 yrs. If you don't care about it, why do you frequent a BODYBUILDING board. I am offering my thoughts on why sensible steroid use is a possible answer.
The typical reply of these kind of serious posts is:
1. You suck, go away, STFU , etc
If you really hate me or don't care, why did you bother to open the thread and then take the time to post a lame personal attack. ???
2. They fail to attack the issue in the thread. For example:
Thread - Are benches good for chest devlopment?
nonesense reply - (a) anyone who doesn't bench is queer
(b) I prefer squats man and think roids are great - (wtf? does this have to do with benching?)
3. It is ok to DISGREE with my ideas or any others here. BUT, it adds nada to the debate or issue to just post some lame , personal insult. Most of the lame insults are childish, not very clever or funny and leabe me clueless as to the motiavtion for doing it.
* A funny, clever , itty post is different, but sadly most lame insults are either funny or clever.
Howard
-
not flaming man, but well..you always bring the obvious things...everyone knows that....its like you are reinventing the wheel...
people are going to use steroids, with Pro bodybuilding or without...with you liking or not....
some guys like to kiss other man...some people like to kill other people....and some of them like to take 'medicines' to make their physiques bigger than they naturally would get...oh my, its the end of the world...
good that you have a brain and think about things, but lets spend our times in things that ADD something...like the 'gayer than' thread or maybe adding to the thread 'hottest college chicks'..
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but I must assume you didn't read the actual thread.
I agree with you that bodybuilders should use drugs. It is the extreme , crazy use that I am against.
* Question- Why is a middle of the road sensible view on steroids , near impossible to get across?
-
You can't change the disign Howard, I'm sorry.
Just like the old days.
Im not asking people to change
I do agree it needs to get better
And the only way to do that is
Free health care as well as steroids to use all.
Do a long term study with no BS.
I think dialogue based on truth and good sense are the only way to make sensible policy in bodybuilding.
The movie Bigger, Faster, Stronger is a great start, but I fear some may be called in for a witchhunt just for being honest.
-
No.
-
No.
Now what? Please feeel free to elaborate on this answer. Thanks
-
Alright, i didn't bother to read the first post completely, but i'll bite.
* Question- Why is a middle of the road sensible view on steroids , near impossible to get across?
Is it really?
Isn't that what they do in HRT and anti-aging clinics?
And it's even perfectly legal.
But most people like see things black and white. People see guys like Dave Jacobs and quickly make up their mind. So after that, try telling a soccer mom that it's not such a big deal if her 20 yo son is using a little testosteron to get on the football team.
-
Alright, i didn't bother to read the first post completely, but i'll bite.Is it really?
Isn't that what they do in HRT and anti-aging clinics?
And it's even perfectly legal.
But most people like see things black and white. People see guys like Dave Jacobs and quickly make up their mind. So after that, try telling a soccer mom that it's not such a big deal if her 20 yo son is using a little testosteron to get on the football team.
Good pt, but how come the soccer MOM can't tell the differnce between HRT , sensible drug use ( her son ) and some wacko shooting himself and woman.?
-
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but I must assume you didn't read the actual thread.
I agree with you that bodybuilders should use drugs. It is the extreme , crazy use that I am against.
* Question- Why is a middle of the road sensible view on steroids , near impossible to get across?
Saying steroids should be used but not abused is like saying a little crack here and there is ok. Addiction is harsh. There is only one true answer and nobody wants to hear it, instead just try and fool themselves in justifying it. A drug is a drug is a drug. It's illegal per our government so the only policy for bodybuilding is one that involves no illegal drugs and vigorous testing. There you go... end of thread.
-
Saying steroids should be used but not abused is like saying a little crack here and there is ok. Addiction is harsh. There is only one true answer and nobody wants to hear it, instead just try and fool themselves in justifying it. A drug is a drug is a drug. It's illegal per our government so the only policy for bodybuilding is one that involves no illegal drugs and vigorous testing. There you go... end of thread.
Thanks for putting up an intelligent, well written counter point on this issue.
I think it is the extremes that I have an issue with ,while you view steroids as all bad.
For example crack is proven to be addictive from the 1st use, while steroids and are not easlity addictive nor do they cause the same problem issues as coke, booze and ciggs.
Proper use of drugs is a major part of health care in the medical field.
-
Good pt, but how come the soccer MOM can't tell the differnce between HRT , sensible drug use ( her son ) and some wacko shooting himself and woman.?
I think because people in general are not that smart. They usually don't know much about the subject. The little they know, they pick up some stuff here and there from the media, but they usually don't bother doing research, or reading long dissertations on difficult subjects. To simplify it people tend to group things togheter.
They hear some bad stuff about drugs. -> all drugs are bad
They hear some bad stuff about roids. -> all steroids are bad
They hear bad shit about a minority. -> that certain minority is bad
-
Howard... I disagree. Steroids are quite addictive. In my opinion, it's as addictive as any other substance and thinking otherwise is trying to fool yourself into justifying it.
-
Howard... I disagree. Steroids are quite addictive. In my opinion, it's as addictive as any other substance and thinking otherwise is trying to fool yourself into justifying it.
Not physically addictive. However a nice cycle is sweet. Especially because i don't experience any nasty side-effects. Lucky me.
-
Hey, I've got a great idea.
Let's dig up a horse we've beaten to death at least fifty times. Then let's lay him out on the ground and bludgeon him with a baseball bat a few hundred more times.
:D
-
Hey, I've got a great idea.
Let's dig up a horse we've beaten to death at least fifty times. Then let's lay him out on the ground and bludgeon him with a baseball bat a few hundred more times.
:D
I've heard that idea before. There's this thing called America... and in America, you can voice an opinion or express a concern for free. The other good thing about America, is that you are actually free to walk away or disregard these opinions. Take into consideration that there are many new getbiggers that might not want to use the search feature... lighten up. You're almost at 5000 posts so keep up the good work.
-
i have mixed feelings about letting you post
-
STFU and train, Howie.
-
A. There is no way I'm reading all that.
B. You need to get laid.
-
no. i love bbing and its part of it..if someone doen't like it take golf
-
A. There is no way I'm reading all that.
B. You need to get laid.
reply to:
A. ok well I advise you to "get hooked on phonics"
B. I did just that about 12 hrs ago and hope to so again soon.
-
i have mixed feelings about letting you post
LOL :D
I have to confess I have mixed feelings on your mixed feelings which gets me mixed up.
-
There's nothing sensible about taking a drug you don't need.
If you want to take a drug for the primary purpose of impressing yourself and others, while at the same time possibly damaging your endocrine system, heart, or liver, then look, as Conrad Hilton used to say, "Be my
Guest....."
-
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, but I must assume you didn't read the actual thread.
I agree with you that bodybuilders should use drugs. It is the extreme , crazy use that I am against.
* Question- Why is a middle of the road sensible view on steroids , near impossible to get across?
and 'who' is going to define 'extreme'? you? me??? there are people who thinks that 16 week cycle with 4-6 things is not 'extreme'...I did my first cycle with 10 weeks of JUST sust, and at the gym some guys said "man, you are crazy!!! 10 weeks!!!!' for them that was extreme...
your view may have some sense, but there is not 'middle of the road'...everyone would have their 'middle' and it will be always different from other ones...
Lee Priest says he uses very little...for most here, he uses something that would kill a elephant...who is right?
you have what you considerer 'extreme' use...wich can and will be different from a lot of other people...after all, for some people, using ANY kind of steroids, is extreme...
-
GREAT THREAD HOWARD LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET EVERYONE TO AGREE TO A GRAM OR LESS PER WEEK, OK?
-
Who is gonna` regulate the amount that people use to make it a uniform amount per person?
GEEZ!
-
Ok Howard
You got me to say it
I was a crack dealer and you
Bros consumed my poisen
Kill off all the crack dealers so the gov
and Fda can control and profit
Nice formulia
-
I think dialogue based on truth and good sense are the only way to make sensible policy in bodybuilding.
The movie Bigger, Faster, Stronger is a great start, but I fear some may be called in for a witchhunt just for being honest.
I agree with you there.
Honesty is not the better road
traveled for us. Media thinks we
infect our youth when they dont relize
we are against youth takeing steroids.
It is a personal issue with me if I use them
as long as I dont endanger another person or
property then there should not be a problem.
If I'm breaking the law by injecting and not hurting
anyone else then so be it.
I guess a prime example is the seat belt law.
-
I've heard that idea before. There's this thing called America... and in America, you can voice an opinion or express a concern for free. The other good thing about America, is that you are actually free to walk away or disregard these opinions. Take into consideration that there are many new getbiggers that might not want to use the search feature... lighten up. You're almost at 5000 posts so keep up the good work.
Epic gimmick account
-
I agree with you there.
Honesty is not the better road
traveled for us. Media thinks we
infect our youth when they dont relize
we are against youth takeing steroids.
It is a personal issue with me if I use them
as long as I dont endanger another person or
property then there should not be a problem.
If I'm breaking the law by injecting and not hurting
anyone else then so be it.
I guess a prime example is the seat belt law.
In principle I am 100% with you and don't think the feds should tell anyone what they can/can't put in their body as an adult.
The reality is that the US drug laws don't agree with us.
I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect trying to be honest to the witchunting feds is not going to do anything but cause troubles.
Wes, I sure don't think I am qualified to say what the ideal doseage limits are.
I sincerely would prefer to leave that up to the individual myself
-
Say whatever you guys want to but Howard's gonna start a thread saying the exact same thing 2 days from now.
-
Say whatever you guys want to but Howard's gonna start a thread saying the exact same thing 2 days from now.
Now, lets not encourage him
-
Chick says there is No Drug use by IFBB Pros just ask him. ::)
-
I'd have to actually give a shit about bodybuilding in general before I could have mixed feeling about it
thanks for listening
Geo makes the only sensible post in this thread.
-
Say whatever you guys want to but Howard's gonna start a thread saying the exact same thing 2 days from now.
I will be in NH and not on line and St Thomas USVI after that, so you guys get a break.
Say what YOU want about my threads , but they do get a response , even it is to STFU hehe ;D
-
Chick says there is No Drug use by IFBB Pros just ask him. ::)
Where has Chick ever said that?
-
I will be in NH and not on line and St Thomas USVI after that, so you guys get a break.
Say what YOU want about my threads , but they do get a response , even it is to STFU hehe ;D
Are you taking the graveyard chick or the ex?
-
Are you taking the graveyard chick or the ex?
The ex, the graveyard chick was a dead fuk LOL
Ya know, a guy can only take so much screwin in the graveyard LOL
Here is my past/current love of my life
-
Here is my past/current love of my life
Why'd you break up the first time, she get tired of you whining about steroids all the time?
-
I will be in NH and not on line and St Thomas USVI after that, so you guys get a break.
Say what YOU want about my threads , but they do get a response , even it is to STFU hehe ;D
Howie, please don't come to my parts and start holding forth about steroids, we actually don't care here >:(
Enjoy your vacation
-
Why'd you break up the first time, she get tired of you whining about steroids all the time?
LOL, long story, but her dad died a couple years ago and some other issues came into play at stressful time, etc. Nobody is perfect and in the end , I am greatful that LOVE won out.
-
Howie, please don't come to my parts and start holding forth about steroids, we actually don't care here >:(
Enjoy your vacation
You live in the Virgin Islands? Lucky bastard! ;)
-
Saying steroids should be used but not abused is like saying a little crack here and there is ok. Addiction is harsh. There is only one true answer and nobody wants to hear it, instead just try and fool themselves in justifying it. A drug is a drug is a drug. It's illegal per our government so the only policy for bodybuilding is one that involves no illegal drugs and vigorous testing. There you go... end of thread.
its not bodybuilding thats needs to change, firnend, but the law itself.
but hey if your personally against using sterodis then dont use them, as for myself; ill do whatever the hell i please and anybody who tells me different can
SUCK A DICK
;D
-
You live in the Virgin Islands? Lucky bastard! ;)
I don't think she's actually a virgin, though.
-
Here's my opinion. Competitive bodybuilders are going to go to extremes, push the limits, and unfortunately the health aspect has been totally removed from it. The way many steroid users get started is they think they can do a couple of small cycles, make some gains and go off. The reality is that most of these guys do not have the discipline or the intellect to do that. So they end up taking higher doses and for longer periods of time untill they cause some side effects, kidneys that don't function at 100 percent, hormonal levels that never fully recover, hypertrophied heart valves, prolonged periods of improper hdl and ldl levels leading to serious problems. I do believe people can make great gains from very small doses of anabolics providing they train intensely and eat correctly, but most will listen to the steroid gurus or gym idiots and go way overboard. It seems silly to abuse your health, especially if competition isn't even a goal, but I am not one to judge what makes people happy. Personally, I prefer to be the best version of myself and not worry about comparing myself to professional bodybuilders. I prefer the look of guys like Arnold, Zane, Robbie over some of the bodies that are now built with big doses of HGH, Insulin, IGF-1 along with 3 to 400 mg of androgens a week.