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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: MuscleMcMannus on June 27, 2008, 11:53:10 AM
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Here's the difference between fighting and self defense.
If anyone is looking for a REAL system designed for real street self defense you can't go wrong with Vee Arnis Jitsu. Professor David James is the real deal guys!
Just remember there is no such thing as eye gouging, fish hooking, groin kicks, etc. in MMA! Anything goes in the street!
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Again the real deal guys......
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Or you can listen to these guys
&NR=1
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The Bas Rutten self defense videos are the best...
BANG* A DONK A DONK A BANG!
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&feature=related ::) LOL That's some of the stupidest shit I've EVER seen. He's made one too many hollywood B action movies.
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&feature=related
You think this shit is going to work on a guy that outweighs you by 100lbs? Please.
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The Bas Rutten self defense videos are the best...
BANG* A DONK A DONK A BANG!
Agree ;D
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bas is the real deal
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bas is the real deal
thats because he is part crazy. same with the black dude on the vid. the black dude has a face that would make anyone think twice before they messed with him. same for bas. although i think bas would be more intent on punishing anyone and would take pleasure in truly making you suffer for your mistake. the black dude would just fuck you up. Bas would ask you questions while he fucked you up like "i bet you regret waking up this morning" and he would also do those sounds like "boink" and "bonk" to add insult to injury to anyone who tried to mug him.
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This is an old argument.
Why waste time, carry a gun....no defense for a speedy bullet. ;D
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This is an old argument.
Why waste time, carry a gun....no defense for a speedy bullet. ;D
afraid of guns.. :-\
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This is an old argument.
Why waste time, carry a gun....no defense for a speedy bullet. ;D
Unfortunately not allowed in The Netherlands.
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Again the real deal guys......
Bas has way better shit.. The whole bar scenario is a great one to watch. The only problem is that it will land you in jail for using a weapon on most of it.. He is just brutal.
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Uh, okay. Professor Visitacion was a great Kali man who will be missed. A lot of his small joint manipulations are REALLY tough to pull off without the use of a weapon against a skilled resisting opponent. Rigan, John, JJ, Roger Machado were in the PI during the filming of Kickboxer 4, the rebellion as part of a stunt/extra/martial art choreography team led by Burton Richardson. All Machado brothers quickly learned that the anti weapon defense they learned as part of the Gracie curriculum left something to be desired against ARMED combatants (Chris Ricketts in this case), but unarmed, they were having their way with ALL of the martial artists who were either in the movie, or locals who practiced Kali/Escrima/Arnis. Modern MMA is perhaps best suited for one to one encounters against SKILLED, ATHLETIC and RESISTING opponents.
You learn attributes like distance, timing, rhythm, line familiarization and get to exercise KILLER INSTINCT constantly in training. Not to mention, you must be fit, resilient. Most TMAs (Kali is my second favorite art, and I still train to this day) do not spar enough or get full contact training in against resisting, aggressive opponents (Dog Brothers excluded from this). I was fortunate to have trained with "Tatang" Illustrisimo before his death, I have trained with Ben Largusa, Cacoy Canete, the late, great Punong Guro Edgar Sulite, Sifu Bustillo, Guro Inosanto, GM Leo Gaje. And all of these men would have their way with any MMA athlete with a weapon in their hands. But unarmed? NO WAY, NO HOW.
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Uh, okay. Professor Visitacion was a great Kali man who will be missed. A lot of his small joint manipulations are REALLY tough to pull off without the use of a weapon against a skilled resisting opponent. Rigan, John, JJ, Roger Machado were in the PI during the filming of Kickboxer 4, the rebellion as part of a stunt/extra/martial art choreography team led by Burton Richardson. All Machado brothers quickly learned that the anti weapon defense they learned as part of the Gracie curriculum left something to be desired against ARMED combatants (Chris Ricketts in this case), but unarmed, they were having their way with ALL of the martial artists who were either in the movie, or locals who practiced Kali/Escrima/Arnis. Modern MMA is perhaps best suited for one to one encounters against SKILLED, ATHLETIC and RESISTING opponents.
You learn attributes like distance, timing, rhythm, line familiarization and get to exercise KILLER INSTINCT constantly in training. Not to mention, you must be fit, resilient. Most TMAs (Kali is my second favorite art, and I still train to this day) do not spar enough or get full contact training in against resisting, aggressive opponents (Dog Brothers excluded from this). I was fortunate to have trained with "Tatang" Illustrisimo before his death, I have trained with Ben Largusa, Cacoy Canete, the late, great Punong Guro Edgar Sulite, Sifu Bustillo, Guro Inosanto, GM Leo Gaje. And all of these men would have their way with any MMA athlete with a weapon in their hands. But unarmed? NO WAY, NO HOW.
whatabout the wingtsun chain punch!
[/youtube]
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Uh, okay. Professor Visitacion was a great Kali man who will be missed. A lot of his small joint manipulations are REALLY tough to pull off without the use of a weapon against a skilled resisting opponent. Rigan, John, JJ, Roger Machado were in the PI during the filming of Kickboxer 4, the rebellion as part of a stunt/extra/martial art choreography team led by Burton Richardson. All Machado brothers quickly learned that the anti weapon defense they learned as part of the Gracie curriculum left something to be desired against ARMED combatants (Chris Ricketts in this case), but unarmed, they were having their way with ALL of the martial artists who were either in the movie, or locals who practiced Kali/Escrima/Arnis. Modern MMA is perhaps best suited for one to one encounters against SKILLED, ATHLETIC and RESISTING opponents.
You learn attributes like distance, timing, rhythm, line familiarization and get to exercise KILLER INSTINCT constantly in training. Not to mention, you must be fit, resilient. Most TMAs (Kali is my second favorite art, and I still train to this day) do not spar enough or get full contact training in against resisting, aggressive opponents (Dog Brothers excluded from this). I was fortunate to have trained with "Tatang" Illustrisimo before his death, I have trained with Ben Largusa, Cacoy Canete, the late, great Punong Guro Edgar Sulite, Sifu Bustillo, Guro Inosanto, GM Leo Gaje. And all of these men would have their way with any MMA athlete with a weapon in their hands. But unarmed? NO WAY, NO HOW.
There is a difference between "fighting" and self defense. Watch the videos I posted again. I'd put Professor David James VAJ system up against ANYTHING!
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There is a difference between "fighting" and self defense. Watch the videos I posted again. I'd put Professor David James VAJ system up against ANYTHING!
he would get his ass kicked.
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What do you think about this example, sensei?
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he would get his ass kicked.
Why don't you learn to read. Professor David James is 50+ years old. I said I'd put his "system" up against anyone's. What do you train in? Put your money where your mouth is and come up to Brooklyn and tell David James how you feel and train with some of his black belts and see how easily they'd "get their ass kicked". Or come on down to the Defense Institute in Colorado Springs.
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Why don't you learn to read. Professor David James is 50+ years old. I said I'd put his "system" up against anyone's. What do you train in? Put your money where your mouth is and come up to Brooklyn and tell David James how you feel and train with some of his black belts and see how easily they'd "get their ass kicked". Or come on down to the Defense Institute in Colorado Springs.
They wouldn't recover.
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They wouldn't recover.
LOL .....yeah whatever. If you're ever in East Greenwich, Brooklyn, or Hoboken put your money where your mouth is!
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Now this is self defense... go to the 40 seconds into the clip.......
only in Russia
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Thank God, Ryan Gracie aint around....
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I know your guy isn't a Kempo fighter though his style seems similar and both men claim to have a "street lethal, effective system", but I have a feeling him against a skilled BJJ/Sambo/Judo guy would look a lot like this. But then again you never know ::)
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I know your guy isn't a Kempo fighter though his style seems similar and both men claim to have a "street lethal, effective system", but I have a feeling him against a skilled BJJ/Sambo/Judo guy would look a lot like this. But then again you never know ::)
That's not a street fight...
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Well the man facing Royler Gracie in the video like the man in the original thread starters video claimed to have a "street effective" self defense style, thats all I was trying to show. If you want to see some wild moves against 3 guys in the street or something rent a Jackie Chan movie.
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Well the man facing Royler Gracie in the video like the man in the original thread starters video claimed to have a "street effective" self defense style, thats all I was trying to show. If you want to see some wild moves against 3 guys in the street or something rent a Jackie Chan movie.
But the video with Royler does not disprove the effectiveness of the op's system. A soft mat in a gym with a crowd of supporters that will not intervene and with no threat of weapons being presented is not a street fight.
One-on-one fights in a controlled environment is tailor made for brazilian jiu jitsu.
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Very good point. In my opinion the smartest system when faced with a real danger in that situation would be keeping a level head and not doing anything foolish. I really only posted the video because of the OP getting really defensive and challenging people to come fight the guys black belts which I thought was kind of funny.
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Very good point. In my opinion the smartest system when faced with a real danger in that situation would be keeping a level head and not doing anything foolish. I really only posted the video because of the OP getting really defensive and challenging people to come fight the guys black belts which I thought was kind of funny.
It was a challenge not a threat. When some armchair tough guy like Bluto (who never answered my question as to if he even trains in martial arts) claiming he could kick people's ass I simply invited him up to NYC and told him to put his money where his mouth is. That goes for anyone. Check out the system and understand it before you go criticizing something so foolishly. www.veearnisjitsu.com www.defenseinstitute.com
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::)
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Street fighting as brought to you by Tony Cecchine one of the best catch wrestlers. No good for multiple attackers but funny to watch!
Hair Pull
The Fishhook!!
But seriously the guy has some pretty wild submissions if you watch all his videos...
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Thread reeks of McDojo and Benny Blanco gimmicks.
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::)
Hey I'll be the first one to admit some of those videos/ads are kind of hoky. But you can only portray something so realistically in an ad/video. Like I said come check out the classes and you'll see what it's all about. By the way you never answered my question Bluto......what do you train in? Barbell kwon do?
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Street fighting as brought to you by Tony Cecchine one of the best catch wrestlers. No good for multiple attackers but funny to watch!
Hair Pull
The Fishhook!!
But seriously the guy has some pretty wild submissions if you watch all his videos...
First off how does he get his oppenents to the ground? Secondly, I'd like to see his ass roll around on his knee like that on concrete or on a dirty soaking wet glass ridden bar floor or parking lot. Talk about McDojo! And who's gonna try and stick their fucking finger in someone's mouth? I'd love for someone to do that to me......I'd bite the thing off his hand!
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Hey I'll be the first one to admit some of those videos/ads are kind of hoky. But you can only portray something so realistically in an ad/video. Like I said come check out the classes and you'll see what it's all about. By the way you never answered my question Bluto......what do you train in? Barbell kwon do?
real fighters dont need to train martial arts, that just fucks them up
natural born killer baby !!
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There is a difference between "fighting" and self defense. Watch the videos I posted again. I'd put Professor David James VAJ system up against ANYTHING!
Carlos and Relio refined BJJ and created Vale Tudo fights to prove the superiority of BJJ. Relson, my instructor, was involved in many a street fight. In Brazil, no less, under no rules.
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i wonder why so many instructors claim they were involved in so many street fights ? why are they not peaceful ? why are they not athletes ? they must live lifestyle fo a thug because it's not normal to get into so many fights
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i wonder why so many instructors claim they were involved in so many street fights ? why are they not peaceful ? why are they not athletes ? they must live lifestyle fo a thug because it's not normal to get into so many fights
It is Brazil....... :o
Relson was known as Compreido. Lots of dirty fighting in his techniques.
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Carlos and Relio refined BJJ and created Vale Tudo fights to prove the superiority of BJJ. Relson, my instructor, was involved in many a street fight. In Brazil, no less, under no rules.
There is no such thing as no rules. If there were no rules people would die or in the least be maimed for life. You can recover from a snapped arm or a broken leg. You can't recover from someone shoving their thumb through your eyeball or ripping your ear off. Since you are a practitioner of BJJ I'd like to ask you a question. When you are rolling around with someone on the mat what's to prevent someone from hammering you in your groin and biting a chunk out of your arm or leg? Shihan John Petrone of Defense Institute in Colordo Springs was named Jiu Jitsu man of the year at one point. He's actually grappled with some of the Gracies. I'd like for you to ask your instructor about him. Here's his myspace page. Email him and ask him. Tell him what you think. He'll give you a very intelligent, fair and honest answer.
http://www.myspace.com/vajcsco
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ripping ear off is no problem. thats why we got a pair
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ripping ear off is no problem. thats why we got a pair
Yes and I'm sure you're the same type of guy that would not flinch one iota if someone hammered you in your balls. Balls of steel right? LOL
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Yes and I'm sure you're the same type of guy that would not flinch one iota if someone hammered you in your balls. Balls of steel right? LOL
youre saying that it's likely that a street fight end up on the ground and that the attacker will hammer you in the balls? and because of that, you should train for it? or even that you the defender should defend youraself by taking the fight to the ground and start hammering the balls of the attacker?
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youre saying that it's likely that a street fight end up on the ground and that the attacker will hammer you in the balls? and because of that, you should train for it? or even that you the defender should defend youraself by taking the fight to the ground and start hammering the balls of the attacker?
Yes we practice taking an opponent down to the ground by way of a judo chop and then once they are on the ground hammering away at their balls ::)
No most street fights do not end up nor should they end up on the ground. My point was in regards to his grappling/BJJ comment. What I'm saying is BJJ doesn't train you for dirty fighting. It's easy for anyone to say oh well I can kick anyone in the groin or eye gouge or whatever. But in VAJ we TRAIN FOR IT, it's part of our system.
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Yes we practice taking an opponent down to the ground by way of a judo chop and then once they are on the ground hammering away at their balls ::)
No most street fights do not end up nor should they end up on the ground. My point was in regards to his grappling/BJJ comment. What I'm saying is BJJ doesn't train you for dirty fighting. It's easy for anyone to say oh well I can kick anyone in the groin or eye gouge or whatever. But in VAJ we TRAIN FOR IT, it's part of our system.
why would they? most train for sport. if theyre self-defense oriented im sure there's no stopping them from adding techniques for that.
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why would they? most train for sport.
hence the title of the thread, fucktard
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hence the title of the thread, fucktard
And I thought it was obvious.
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so whats your point?
if people train mma for sport. does it matter if it works or dont work on the street?
thats like saying
"bowling will get you killed in the street!"
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so whats your point?
if people train mma for sport. does it matter if it works or dont work on the street?
thats like saying
"bowling will get you killed in the street!"
Do you even remember the point of this thread? I mean hell I wonder if you even read my first post. People that watch MMA i.e. the stupid fans think they can apply MMA to the street. Hell most of the MMA fighters walk around like billy bad ass thinking they can do what they do in the ring with rules and a soft matt to roll around on out in the street. That's what I'm saying. Everyone things MMA is so cool and so bad ass. They don't realize that it's a SPORT with rules and weight classes. How come you never see BJ Penn fight a guy like Ken Shamrock? Hence why a lot of martial arts are useless in the street as they don't take into account someone being much bigger and stronger than you.
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Do you even remember the point of this thread? I mean hell I wonder if you even read my first post. People that watch MMA i.e. the stupid fans think they can apply MMA to the street. Hell most of the MMA fighters walk around like billy bad ass thinking they can do what they do in the ring with rules and a soft matt to roll around on out in the street. That's what I'm saying. Everyone things MMA is so cool and so bad ass. They don't realize that it's a SPORT with rules and weight classes. How come you never see BJ Penn fight a guy like Ken Shamrock? Hence why a lot of martial arts are useless in the street as they don't take into account someone being much bigger and stronger than you.
youre saying the world is full of mma fans that tries to beat up people twice their size in the street?
never heard of that.
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youre saying the world is full of mma fans that tries to beat up people twice their size in the street?
never heard of that.
No I'm saying a lot of fans who watch MMA, wear their Tapout shorts and Affliction T-shirts and take one MMA class and think they know how to fight or defend themselves. Why do you think MMA has such a strong following? You think it's because these guys come off such great conditioned athletes? You think it's because these guys are so good looking? Do you think it's because it's so exciting to watch two sweaty men roll around on the ground in blood and sweat? No it's because in the back of the minds of most of the fans they think art imitates life when it comes to MMA. They think that the BJ Pens of the world or the George St. Pierres of the world are the toughest, baddest fighters because they do MMA. George St. Pierre probably wouldn't last a minute in a real fight with someone twice his size.
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No I'm saying a lot of fans who watch MMA, wear their Tapout shorts and Affliction T-shirts and take one MMA class and think they know how to fight or defend themselves. Why do you think MMA has such a strong following? You think it's because these guys come off such great conditioned athletes? You think it's because these guys are so good looking? Do you think it's because it's so exciting to watch two sweaty men roll around on the ground in blood and sweat? No it's because in the back of the minds of most of the fans they think art imitates life when it comes to MMA. They think that the BJ Pens of the world or the George St. Pierres of the world are the toughest, baddest fighters because they do MMA. George St. Pierre probably wouldn't last a minute in a real fight with someone twice his size.
in general i think people are pretty aware of the difference weight does.
thats why there's weight classes.
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Do you even remember the point of this thread? I mean hell I wonder if you even read my first post. People that watch MMA i.e. the stupid fans think they can apply MMA to the street. Hell most of the MMA fighters walk around like billy bad ass thinking they can do what they do in the ring with rules and a soft matt to roll around on out in the street. That's what I'm saying. Everyone things MMA is so cool and so bad ass. They don't realize that it's a SPORT with rules and weight classes. How come you never see BJ Penn fight a guy like Ken Shamrock? Hence why a lot of martial arts are useless in the street as they don't take into account someone being much bigger and stronger than you.
Yep. No rules or weight classes in an alleyway outside of a club at 3am.
I'm sure many of you all saw the fight that broke out on TUF one season outside of the house. Dude tried to pull guard and got his head slammed into the concrete. In the street he likely would be slammed harder and his skull cracked. :D
One thing you have to give mma fighters credit for MuscleMcManus is attributes training. They do spend a lot of time conditioning themselves and learning how to throw and take punches. This can only help in a street altercation, although I don't you want to be trading punches like a brawler in a real fight. A pair of brass knuckles or a set of keys could make that a big mistake.
youre saying the world is full of mma fans that tries to beat up people twice their size in the street?
never heard of that.
idiot
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in general i think people are pretty aware of the difference weight does.
thats why there's weight classes.
EXACTLY!!!!!!! Dude you obviously do not spend much time with people in the martial arts or MMA community. If you did you'd understand what I'm talking about. I have friends that train in BJJ/grappling and some of the shit that comes out of their mouth in regards to real life fighting is just downright crazy. I'd do this or I'd do that. I'd try to put an arm bar on a guy holding a gun to my head! LOL. Yeah ok!
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EXACTLY!!!!!!! Dude you obviously do not spend much time with people in the martial arts or MMA community. If you did you'd understand what I'm talking about. I have friends that train in BJJ/grappling and some of the shit that comes out of their mouth in regards to real life fighting is just downright crazy. I'd do this or I'd do that. I'd try to put an arm bar on a guy holding a gun to my head! LOL. Yeah ok!
maybe it's an american teenage-thing.
im no teengar. and im not american. so i cant relate to that stuff. sorry.
but the videos you showed were equally as silly, in their own way.
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Yep. No rules or weight classes in an alleyway outside of a club at 3am.
I'm sure many of you all saw the fight that broke out on TUF one season outside of the house. Dude tried to pull guard and got his head slammed into the concrete. In the street he likely would be slammed harder and his skull cracked. :D
One thing you have to give mma fighters credit for MuscleMcManus is attributes training. They do spend a lot of time conditioning themselves and learning how to throw and take punches. This can only help in a street altercation, although I don't you want to be trading punches like a brawler in a real fight. A pair of brass knuckles or a set of keys could make that a big mistake.
idiot
You're rigth and don't take my other post where I said "because people watch them because they are great athletes......" as a slam. Regardless of "athletic" ability they are some of the most conditioned people around. I've seen the workouts Randy Couture put himself through.
Ok take Kimbo Slice for example. In ALL those stupid ass street fights when did ANYONE try to kick him in his knee or in his groin? Kimbo Slice is a joke! The dude probably can't lift his leg past his knee to kick.
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You're rigth and don't take my other post where I said "because people watch them because they are great athletes......" as a slam. Regardless of "athletic" ability they are some of the most conditioned people around. I've seen the workouts Randy Couture put himself through.
Ok take Kimbo Slice for example. In ALL those stupid ass street fights when did ANYONE try to kick him in his knee or in his groin? Kimbo Slice is a joke! The dude probably can't lift his leg past his knee to kick.
kimbo is the real deal. and kicking is pretty worthless on the street.
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maybe it's an american teenage-thing.
im no teengar. and im not american. so i cant relate to that stuff. sorry.
but the videos you showed were equally as silly, in their own way.
Did you even watch this video? Everything he says is spot on.
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Did you even watch this video? Everything he says is spot on.
how do you know? how does HE know?
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Ok take Kimbo Slice for example. In ALL those stupid ass street fights when did ANYONE try to kick him in his knee or in his groin? Kimbo Slice is a joke! The dude probably can't lift his leg past his knee to kick.
Well, my posts in support Kimbo here would show that I don't agree with this. lol My posts about Kimbo are mostly in jest, as I know he is not a great mma fighter. However, he would knock MOST dudes out in a street fight, period. He is big, strong, and aggressive with quick hands.
You have to realize the average dude on the street does not know how to throw a kick. People consider a "fair" one-on-one fight as two dudes going at it with their fists. So yeah, your average well trained martial artist would consider kicking Kimbo in the groin if they had to fight him, but that is not the way most thugs and street fighters think.
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kimbo is the real deal. and kicking is pretty worthless on the street.
haha this shows you know absolutely nothing about street fighting nor self defense. A kick to the shin, the groin or the knee cap is VERY EFFECTIVE! Now some roundhouse flying kick three feet off the ground yes is worthless. But kicks below the waist are VERY EFFECTIVE! It's called kuntao kicking.
&feature=related
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haha this shows you know absolutely nothing about street fighting nor self defense. A kick to the shin, the groin or the knee cap is VERY EFFECTIVE! Now some roundhouse flying kick three feet off the ground yes is worthless. But kicks below the waist are VERY EFFECTIVE! It's called kuntao kicking.
&feature=related
effective how? what do you think you will accomplish by kicking someone to the shin?
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Well, my posts in support Kimbo here would show that I don't agree with this. lol My posts about Kimbo are mostly in jest, as I know he is not a great mma fighter. However, he would knock MOST dudes out in a street fight, period. He is big, strong, and aggressive with quick hands.
You have to realize the average dude on the street does not know how to throw a kick. People consider a "fair" one-on-one fight as two dudes going at it with their fists. So yeah, your average well trained martial artist would consider kicking Kimbo in the groin if they had to fight him, but that is not the way most thugs and street fighters think.
No that's not the way most "fighters" think. If you truly understand self defense and street fighting you understand biting, eye gouging, kicks to the groin, the knees, the shins etc. You ever stubbed your shin against a metal pole or the edge of a bed? It hurts and it makes you hobble for a split second. Plus my leg is much longer than someone throwing a punch.
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No that's not the way most "fighters" think. If you truly understand self defense and street fighting you understand biting, eye gouging, kicks to the groin, the knees, the shins etc. You ever stubbed your shin against a metal pole or the edge of a bed? It hurts and it makes you hobble for a split second. Plus my leg is much longer than someone throwing a punch.
all that stuff is bullshit. hurt dont mean shit.
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effective how? what do you think you will accomplish by kicking someone to the shin?
Dude if I'm some guy at a fucking bar and you walk up to me and get in my face and there's only 5-6 inches between us if I nail you in your goddamn shin with the side of my shoe or my boot you're gonna fucking hobble like a girl for a split second. You've obviously have never been kicked in your shin. Same thing if I knee you in the side of your thigh. At these distances you cannot fathom throwing a punch. But you can most definitely throw a head butt, a knee to the thigh or groin, or to the shin or knee cap.
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all that stuff is bullshit. hurt dont mean shit.
Dude you're missing my point. You obviously didn' watch the video. Do you understand what chaning the focus means? Do you understand the concept of body mechanics? Do you understand that if I hit you in your fucking nuts your head comes forward or if I blast you in your face your groin comes forward.......i.e. the high lo concept.
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stop dreaming and start fighting.
in czech we fight every month on the street in football season
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stop dreaming and start fighting.
in czech we fight every month on the street in football season
Wow,
all that proved is that Czech = tomato cans of hooligans. A bunch of pasty beanpoles playin grab ass shirtless, pretty funny actually.
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Wow,
all that proved is that Czech = tomato cans of hooligans. A bunch of pasty beanpoles playin grab ass shirtless, pretty funny actually.
shirtless is for recognition. helps when youre several hundred fighting for real on the street.
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shirtless is for recognition. helps when youre several hundred fighting for real on the street.
In real street fight you wouldn't get to go home to your wife and kids......you'd either go to the hospital or the morgue. How well you defend yourself would dictate where you end up.
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This thread is getting a little absurd.. bottom line is training MMA will almost certainly give you an advantage if you are assaulted on the street. Similar to what americanbulldog said at the very least it gives you experience against a live resisting opponent. If you don't want to believe this or don't agree thats fine. If you are stupid enough to pull guard or something when there are potentially multiple attackers, maybe you should get your head stomped I don't know. And if you want to think that this Van Jitsu guy or whatever is the be all end all of "street" defense that's fine too. Bottom line is there are a million plus variables for situations that could arise on the "street" and some techniques will work better than others at different times. I think that is fair, no? I mean you guys are starting to sound like the BJJ vs TMA guys on sherdog with this crap.
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There is no such thing as no rules. If there were no rules people would die or in the least be maimed for life. You can recover from a snapped arm or a broken leg. You can't recover from someone shoving their thumb through your eyeball or ripping your ear off. Since you are a practitioner of BJJ I'd like to ask you a question. When you are rolling around with someone on the mat what's to prevent someone from hammering you in your groin and biting a chunk out of your arm or leg? Shihan John Petrone of Defense Institute in Colordo Springs was named Jiu Jitsu man of the year at one point. He's actually grappled with some of the Gracies. I'd like for you to ask your instructor about him. Here's his myspace page. Email him and ask him. Tell him what you think. He'll give you a very intelligent, fair and honest answer.
http://www.myspace.com/vajcsco
Carlos Valente was in Hawaii first, he convinced Relson to move to Hawaii. Relson, Rorian and Royce went "dojo storming" in Hawaii to build up their initial student base. They fought anyone, under the rules of the instructor in question. I was a wing chun instructor at the time, myself, along with 32 others were taken down, slapped silly and eventually submitted by Relson, Rorian, Royce. We tried poking them in the eyes, kicking them in the groin, one of my friend's tried "clawing" their necks. Same result occured with EVERYONE. And we don't have mats in chinatown, it was done on the concrete. 29 people signed up for "Gracie Jiujitsu" three decided to try and find solutions within the the wing chun system. I have practiced wing chun/JKD concepts prolly fifty or sixty times since, and that was 1993. At Relson's original academy at UH, it was right next to Master Kham's muay thai school, constant fights between schools, I trained at both places, so stayed out of the fray. Many a people came down to UH, and challenged Relson, most were beat on by purples and blues. Trust me when I say this, getting that groin shot in aint as easy as you think when you are getting punched/kicked and trying to defend the takedown. Once the other guy is on the ground, and he has given up top, it is GAME OVER. I have seen many a folk eat a leg kick to deliver a straight cross and KO someone.
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Like everyone, I just gotta throw my .02 in on this topic.
First of all, I think most real-life altercations you can't get out of happen in bars, nightclubs, parking lots, sporting arenas, living rooms (when strangers are gathered at someone's house or apartment), driveways outside of said apartments or houses if owner can get them out, actual streets, and if you're unfortunate enough, classrooms or prison environments.
In most of those cases, you are in closed quarters, are trading words closely before the s--- hits the fan, have stuff all around you and other people to either also mix it up or break it up.
In many of these cases, logistics do not allow a takedown or any kind of kicking other than their shin or knee, hampering one's use of bjj, or martial arts or thai kicking. Also, unless one is fighting a truly ruthless individual (of which there certainly are such people, though not a high percentage, thankfully - unless your fight is in a prison environment -), there will be no biting, use of weapon, eye gouging, fish-hooking, or ear-ripping. Throats, knees, and groins, I'm afraid, could be fair game, however. Along with a square temple shot or straight shot to the chin, they are the places that will finish you most quickly, imo.
I thus always advocate traditional western boxing, i.e. the art and science of fast, accurate, economic, devestating punching and punching combinations (along with moving, covering up, slipping and parrying) to defend oneself in real-life altercations. It's what best serves the average logistics, it's moderately easy to learn on a base level, and it is the quickest way to defend yourself, imo. Add the muay thai clinch and use of your knees with it, and I honestly think that's the best recipe to defend oneself in most real-life situations.
I agree, boxing is very useful overall compared to most martial "arts". However, it absolutely is useless when someone tries to choke you out, grabs you from behind, puts you in a head lock, or when someone is twice your size. Dirty fighting is even better than boxing, especially in close quarters. Someone gets me in a muay thai clinch I'll fucking shove my thumbs throug his eyeballs.
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;D LOL... You would be in that percentage of guys I would never wanna fight then!
Nah bro I'm just saying that's the difference between defending yourself and "fighting" another guy. I think in all seriousness it's hard for people to differentiate between the two. And it's very dangerous for people to take a martial arts class thinking that what they are learning is applicable when some dude twice your size grabs you by the shirt and tells you he's gonna kill you. Especially women. All these women I see taking these Tae Kwon Do classes and karate classes for self defense.
Here read Shihan Petrone's philosophy on women's self defense. He's had women actually use his techniques to save their lives.
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=100644960&blogID=394826626
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Carlos Valente was in Hawaii first, he convinced Relson to move to Hawaii. Relson, Rorian and Royce went "dojo storming" in Hawaii to build up their initial student base. They fought anyone, under the rules of the instructor in question. I was a wing chun instructor at the time, myself, along with 32 others were taken down, slapped silly and eventually submitted by Relson, Rorian, Royce. We tried poking them in the eyes, kicking them in the groin, one of my friend's tried "clawing" their necks. Same result occured with EVERYONE. And we don't have mats in chinatown, it was done on the concrete. 29 people signed up for "Gracie Jiujitsu" three decided to try and find solutions within the the wing chun system. I have practiced wing chun/JKD concepts prolly fifty or sixty times since, and that was 1993. At Relson's original academy at UH, it was right next to Master Kham's muay thai school, constant fights between schools, I trained at both places, so stayed out of the fray. Many a people came down to UH, and challenged Relson, most were beat on by purples and blues. Trust me when I say this, getting that groin shot in aint as easy as you think when you are getting punched/kicked and trying to defend the takedown. Once the other guy is on the ground, and he has given up top, it is GAME OVER. I have seen many a folk eat a leg kick to deliver a straight cross and KO someone.
Relson taught out of his house before UH when he lived right behind Kalani High. I also helped Relson and got him a segment on Hawaiian Moving Company which really got his business going.
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Kev, who was the Gracie my friend Craig Kukuk was a partner with.
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Kev, who was the Gracie my friend Craig Kukuk was a partner with.
Renzo?
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Relson taught out of his house before UH when he lived right behind Kalani High. I also helped Relson and got him a segment on Hawaiian Moving Company which really got his business going.
I have fond memories of that place. Renzo like Benny opined was Craig's partner. Relson and Rhalan were both by the academy last Monday.
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Apparantely self defense is real easy. all you have to do is poke someone in the eye or kick them between their legs!
I'll try that next time a bouncer stops me from getting into a nightclub, from now on I will come and go as I please! 8)
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Apparantely self defense is real easy. all you have to do is poke someone in the eye or kick them between their legs!
I'll try that next time a bouncer stops me from getting into a nightclub, from now on I will come and go as I please! 8)
Cool people always get into any nightclub. 8)
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Cool people always get into any nightclub. 8)
yes i just use that for the sake of argument.
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Kev, who was the Gracie my friend Craig Kukuk was a partner with.
Here's one of the original t-shirts. It smells horrible, but I could never bring myself to get rid of it.
As to the subject at hand, Prof. James makes many excellent points in that vid. IMO, the main difference between MMA and the street is that the former is a zero sum game with a winner and loser; the latter, you get want to get out unharmed and unarrested.
The argument of which system is the best gets silly because at some point, all systems fail. Put Relson, Rorian and Royce against three marines w/ M16s and I don't like the Gracie's chances.
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Here's one of the original t-shirts. It smells horrible, but I could never bring myself to get rid of it.
As to the subject at hand, Prof. James makes many excellent points in that vid. IMO, the main difference between MMA and the street is that the former is a zero sum game with a winner and loser; the latter, you get want to get out unharmed and unarrested.
The argument of which system is the best gets silly because at some point, all systems fail. Put Relson, Rorian and Royce against three marines w/ M16s and I don't like the Gracie's chances.
Agree with you here. I helped a friend do a seminar on Tuesday at a Kajukembo school, where they only train for "street fighting." My friend, Eric, a Mundial No gi champ, taught self defense from the Gracie playbook. When we were doing defense against a guillotine, some of their blackbelts were doing the classic hand over the shoulder/hand on the leg to prevent "hipping in." I tried to tell them that was good, but you still have to address the arm that is choking you (we were teaching them to put two arms on one, and dislodge the choking arm). They espoused that they would punch the groin after using the one over, one under method. So my friend has to give them an opportunity to try that against him, long story short, two blackbelts nearly lose conciousness while being choked by a brown belt in BJJ. Same thing with the bearhug defense from the rear.... I never claimed BJJ/MMA is the best, but to discount it's effectiveness on an MMA board was trolling (IMHO). Nobody has a monopoly on combat, there are are skilled practicioners at every range, weapon, etc. That is why I still train in Kali, and well has practice Col. Coopers modern method of self defense with JMB's piece de resistance, the model 1911.
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Agree with you here. I helped a friend do a seminar on Tuesday at a Kajukembo school, where they only train for "street fighting." My friend, Eric, a Mundial No gi champ, taught self defense from the Gracie playbook. When we were doing defense against a guillotine, some of their blackbelts were doing the classic hand over the shoulder/hand on the leg to prevent "hipping in." I tried to tell them that was good, but you still have to address the arm that is choking you (we were teaching them to put two arms on one, and dislodge the choking arm). They espoused that they would punch the groin after using the one over, one under method. So my friend has to give them an opportunity to try that against him, long story short, two blackbelts nearly lose conciousness while being choked by a brown belt in BJJ. Same thing with the bearhug defense from the rear.... I never claimed BJJ/MMA is the best, but to discount it's effectiveness on an MMA board was trolling (IMHO). Nobody has a monopoly on combat, there are are skilled practicioners at every range, weapon, etc. That is why I still train in Kali, and well has practice Col. Coopers modern method of self defense with JMB's piece de resistance, the model 1911.
If there is your idea of self defense and street tactics you are delusional and know nothing about body mechanics or fighting.
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Or how about some VINTAGE Gracie JJ??????????????? Some of you are fucking clueless!
&feature=related
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Or how about some VINTAGE Gracie JJ??????????????? Some of you are fucking clueless!
&feature=related
Your desperation reeks and is highlighted by your examples. taking the absolute worst you can find and using it as the foundation of your argument only backfires.
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Or how about some VINTAGE Gracie JJ??????????????? Some of you are fucking clueless!
&feature=related
I was wondering if your guy who you love so much is so tough and good how come he doesn't compete and prove his skill or anyone from his dojo. Or is he just tough on video without any resistance. Do you have any footage of this guy in a real fight. You must have. Cause all the other videos you post of him shows nothing special. Please post so we can see this unstoppable machine in action. Thanks
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I was wondering if your guy who you love so much is so tough and good how come he doesn't compete and prove his skill or anyone from his dojo. Or is he just tough on video without any resistance. Do you have any footage of this guy in a real fight. You must have. Cause all the other videos you post of him shows nothing special. Please post so we can see this unstoppable machine in action. Thanks
Haha you're an idiot. Like I said he'll put his system up against anyone. Like I said fucking email the guy. His name is John Petrone. Here's his myspacepage. The guy isn't scared of ANYONE. And the reason he wouldn't put his "skill" up against anyone is because they'd go home with broken bones, missing eyes, swollen testicles, and what not. He'd love to put any fools like you in a redman suit and try your "art" against his system.
http://www.myspace.com/vajcsco
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Haha you're an idiot. Like I said he'll put his system up against anyone. Like I said fucking email the guy. His name is John Petrone. Here's his myspacepage. The guy isn't scared of ANYONE. And the reason he wouldn't put his "skill" up against anyone is because they'd go home with broken bones, missing eyes, swollen testicles, and what not. He'd love to put any fools like you in a redman suit and try your "art" against his system.
http://www.myspace.com/vajcsco
hahaha No you are an idiot. Like I asked has he competed against anyone to prove himself. The UFC is the stage to do it. If he hasn't or even one of his students then really it is all talk. Talk is cheap and easy and it appears that is all this guy does and you. He couldn't even do backyard stuff to prove anything. Why does he do it against non-combative students. Face it man you lost this arguement. All you and he can do is talk shit, but are afraid in real life to prove it. The Gracies started out like this guy but then took it too the masses and proved their point on an International stage. Your guy reminds me of other people who say they are the best and can beat anyone but they never want to compete or prove they are the best. They can only say they are. Hey if that is what he believes that's great for him, but unless he proves it then it is all talk. Sorry son, you lose.
And to tell you the truth I am pretty sure back before I got hurt this guy would have a very hard time with me. ANd I can pretty much guarantee he if I got ahold of him he would not be able to do shit. Except maybe talk his way out of it. ;D
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By the way do you have videos of him beating up old women or people in wheelchairs. Thanks in advance
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hahaha No you are an idiot. Like I asked has he competed against anyone to prove himself. The UFC is the stage to do it. If he hasn't or even one of his students then really it is all talk. Talk is cheap and easy and it appears that is all this guy does and you. He couldn't even do backyard stuff to prove anything. Why does he do it against non-combative students. Face it man you lost this arguement. All you and he can do is talk shit, but are afraid in real life to prove it. The Gracies started out like this guy but then took it too the masses and proved their point on an International stage. Your guy reminds me of other people who say they are the best and can beat anyone but they never want to compete or prove they are the best. They can only say they are. Hey if that is what he believes that's great for him, but unless he proves it then it is all talk. Sorry son, you lose.
And to tell you the truth I am pretty sure back before I got hurt this guy would have a very hard time with me. ANd I can pretty much guarantee he if I got ahold of him he would not be able to do shit. Except maybe talk his way out of it. ;D
Actually go to his myspace page dumbass. He was in the martial arts hall of fame for JiuJitsu man of the year and edged weapons man of the year etc. David James was nominated as one of the top 10 or top 20 self defense practitioners by BlackBelt magazine.
As for your last comment here is his fucking phone number champ I'D LOVE FOR YOU GIVE HIM A CALL 719-630-8373
Oh and by the way he's the big guy up against the wall with the dark hair. Oh and he's hurt too......back problems from a car accident and a fucked up ankle from snapping his achilles tendon in a fight. So don't use that as an excuse.
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Haha you're an idiot. Like I said he'll put his system up against anyone. Like I said fucking email the guy. His name is John Petrone. Here's his myspacepage. The guy isn't scared of ANYONE. And the reason he wouldn't put his "skill" up against anyone is because they'd go home with broken bones, missing eyes, swollen testicles, and what not. He'd love to put any fools like you in a redman suit and try your "art" against his system.
http://www.myspace.com/vajcsco
There is room for discussion in the "is mma applicable for the street" debate, but you are taking this "my system is the best" act way too far.
Man makes style far more than style defines man. ;)
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these guys will get killed in the street! :'(
(http://www.yorkblog.com/mma/img/fedor.jpeg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/wanderleisilvack9.jpg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/crocop11.jpg)
someone teach them selfdefense techniques like kicking to the groin and finger in the eyes so they can survive quick !!!
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these guys will get killed in the street! :'(
(http://www.yorkblog.com/mma/img/fedor.jpeg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/wanderleisilvack9.jpg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/crocop11.jpg)
someone teach them selfdefense techniques like kicking to the groin and finger in the eyes so they can survive quick !!!
Add Anderson to the list, as well a Pele, Murillo, Ze Mario. Most of the top Brazillian's whether they be BJJ, Lutre Livre have both street, Vale Tudo, NHB and MMA experience.
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None of those guys have anything to do with you are I in a life or death scenario in the real world. The 30-year old accountant who works 50 hours a week isn't training for six hours per day six days per week. Nor do these "mma baddasses" train for someone coming at them with a sharp edged weapon or multiple attackers. Keep shit in perspective.
these guys will get killed in the street! :'(
(http://www.yorkblog.com/mma/img/fedor.jpeg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/wanderleisilvack9.jpg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/crocop11.jpg)
someone teach them selfdefense techniques like kicking to the groin and finger in the eyes so they can survive quick !!!
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None of those guys have anything to do with you are I in a life or death scenario in the real world. The 30-year old accountant who works 50 hours a week isn't training for six hours per day six days per week. Nor do these "mma baddasses" train for someone coming at them with a sharp edged weapon or multiple attackers. Keep shit in perspective.
they're pretty well prepared for it. more than most.
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Actually go to his myspace page dumbass. He was in the martial arts hall of fame for JiuJitsu man of the year and edged weapons man of the year etc. David James was nominated as one of the top 10 or top 20 self defense practitioners by BlackBelt magazine.
As for your last comment here is his fucking phone number champ I'D LOVE FOR YOU GIVE HIM A CALL 719-630-8373
Oh and by the way he's the big guy up against the wall with the dark hair. Oh and he's hurt too......back problems from a car accident and a fucked up ankle from snapping his achilles tendon in a fight. So don't use that as an excuse.
WOW! he is god. Still never competed in the UFC or any other current organization. So big deal. But hey keep posting but be careful or your blood pressure might go to far up and then how can you post about yourself.
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these guys will get killed in the street! :'(
(http://www.yorkblog.com/mma/img/fedor.jpeg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/wanderleisilvack9.jpg)
(http://www.strikezonedortmund.eu/images/crocop11.jpg)
someone teach them selfdefense techniques like kicking to the groin and finger in the eyes so they can survive quick !!!
I'm afraid musclemacanus will kill them in a dark alley if he will ever meet them. :o ;D
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What a horseshit thread.
All the videos are guys in a controlled environment. I don't give a shit how tough any one of these assholes think they are, take them out of gear and gyms and throw them in a shitkicker bar in full of rednecks and let'em pick a fight. They not going to clear a spot for take downs. You going to have to deal with the tables, chairs, walls and people.
Are there a few "badass" professional fighters, sure. Are 99% complete jerk offs, absolutely.
As for your Defense Specialist, looks like all I have to do is stay greater than three feet away from him and shoot him in the face. It's one of his bullshit 10 commandments.
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What a horseshit thread.
All the videos are guys in a controlled environment. I don't give a shit how tough any one of these assholes think they are, take them out of gear and gyms and throw them in a shitkicker bar in full of rednecks and let'em pick a fight. They not going to clear a spot for take downs. You going to have to deal with the tables, chairs, walls and people.
Are there a few "badass" professional fighters, sure. Are 99% complete jerk offs, absolutely.
As for your Defense Specialist, looks like all I have to do is stay greater than three feet away from him and shoot him in the face. It's one of his bullshit 10 commandments.
mma guys still have the upper hand
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mma guys still have the upper hand
We get it. They are your heroes...
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We get it. They are your heroes...
no the rednecks in the bar that fight with chairs are ::)
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no the rednecks in the bar that fight with chairs are ::)
Then why don't you believe they will be victorious? Will the mma champions use their superpowers? ::)
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Then why don't you believe they will be victorious? Will the mma champions use their superpowers? ::)
why would a drunk in a bar have the upper hand against someone like fedor?
the mma fighter is more likely to be less drunk which will increase his ability.
a lot of them are bad ass growing up so theyre used to fight whether its in teh ring or out of it.
anything thats available to the bar drunk whether it be kicks to the groin or chairs is available to the mma guy as well.
the mma fighter is used to fight under pressure and the adrenaline that comes with it.
the mma fighter got great reflexes, is in shape, great eye/hand coordination, quickness, strength, guard, great chin, ko power and so on.
only an idiot would claim all that combined has no value on the street or in a bar. of course it has.
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why would a drunk in a bar have the upper hand against someone like fedor?
the mma fighter is more likely to be less drunk which will increase his ability.
a lot of them are bad ass growing up so theyre used to fight whether its in teh ring or out of it.
anything thats available to the bar drunk whether it be kicks to the groin or chairs is available to the mma guy as well.
the mma fighter is used to fight under pressure and the adrenaline that comes with it.
the mma fighter got great reflexes, is in shape, great eye/hand coordination, quickness, strength, guard, great chin, ko power and so on.
only an idiot would claim all that combined has no value on the street or in a bar. of course it has.
I am not sure that anyone said this. ???
So your hero Fedor and all the mighty mma champions you have on your wall would always prevail against multiple attackers in a bar too? ::) How about YOU? Do you have the same skill set as Fedor? Would YOU prevail in that scenario if you trained in an mma gym for two years two to three nights per week? Do you think your chances would be better than say...the Kimbo Slice of a year ago? Might there be a more efficient way for you to train for that scenario, assuming you don't possess the same skill set as your mma heroes?
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I am not sure that anyone said this. ???
[quoet]So your hero Fedor and all the mighty mma champions you have on your wall would always prevail against multiple attackers in a bar too?
i think fedor would do pretty well yeah. even against multiple attackers. the good news is most of the time they dont all attack at once from all angles.
::) How about YOU? Do you have the same skill set as Fedor?
unfortunately i dont have the same skill set as fedor. i wish i did. i'd love to be the worlds no 1 heavyweight champ :D
Would YOU prevail in that scenario if you trained in an mma gym for two years two to three nights per week? Do you think your chances would be better than say...the Kimbo Slice of a year ago?
kimbo isnt your average punk on the street. but in general i'd say someone doing mma is better off in a fight than someone doing swimming for example (unless of course the fight takes place in the water, in that case i'd give the swimmer the upper hand)
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What a horseshit thread.
All the videos are guys in a controlled environment. I don't give a shit how tough any one of these assholes think they are, take them out of gear and gyms and throw them in a shitkicker bar in full of rednecks and let'em pick a fight. They not going to clear a spot for take downs. You going to have to deal with the tables, chairs, walls and people.
Are there a few "badass" professional fighters, sure. Are 99% complete jerk offs, absolutely.
As for your Defense Specialist, looks like all I have to do is stay greater than three feet away from him and shoot him in the face. It's one of his bullshit 10 commandments.
Some of you guys really are fucking dumb. VAJ incorporates jiujitsu, arnis, AND muai thai. But it's the concepts that separate this system from everything else. Is it the best system? Well it's the only system like it. Email Professor David James and tell him how you feel..............veearn isjitsu@aol.com or email John Petrone. I posted his myspace page.
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Is MuscleMacnanus gay? I have a feeling he could be. His love for this guy who fights others who do not fight back is hilarious. This guy would get lit up by many. One thing he has to remember is in a real fight the other person hits back.
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Is MuscleMacnanus gay? I have a feeling he could be. His love for this guy who fights others who do not fight back is hilarious. This guy would get lit up by many. One thing he has to remember is in a real fight the other person hits back.
he does seem to fancy groin strikes...
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The best overall bet in a real-life altercation is to have size, strength, intent, and a couple good blows.