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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on June 28, 2008, 08:22:45 AM
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Keep this man out of the White House. >:(
What Obama means by tax the wealthy
Here's a closer look at how the Democratic candidate defines well-off for different households, and what his proposals will mean for them.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most voters are aware that Barack Obama wants to raise taxes on high-income taxpayers if he's elected president in November.
But what does the Democratic candidate mean by high-income? Who'd be affected and how? While the Obama campaign must still settle on more details about their plans, outlines are starting to emerge.
To start, Obama frequently cites $250,000 as the line between those who would be subject to higher taxes and those who wouldn't.
Indeed, under Obama's tax plan, married couples with at least $250,000 in gross income are likely to see their taxes go up if Obama is elected president.
But what about single filers? The line for them would likely be about $200,000, according to an Obama adviser.
Those groups could end up paying anywhere from several thousand dollars to tens of thousands of dollars more to Uncle Sam than they do now, according to estimates from the Tax Policy Center.
From income to Social Security to estates, we take a look at four areas where the high-income set and the very well off may be subject to a bigger tax bill in an Obama administration.
Income taxes
Obama would restore the top two income tax rates to their pre-2001 levels of 36% and 39.6%. Currently they're 33% and 35%.
Obama's proposal would also reinstate some limitations on how much of a given deduction or personal exemption high-income taxpayers may take.
However, not everyone in the top two brackets would necessarily be affected by the rate increase. Much depends on whether they've been subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) in the past.
You're supposed to calculate your tax liability under both the regular income tax code and the AMT. If your bill under the AMT is bigger, you must pay that.
The Obama rate increase would certainly narrow the spread between the two - since the amount owed under the regular code would go up. The question is would the amount you owe because of the increase exceed your AMT bill.
"Until the regular tax starts exceeding the [AMT bill], you won't have an increase," said John Battaglia, a director in the private client advisors practice of Deloitte. "But if people are deep into AMT, it wouldn't matter."
For example, if the rate increase would mean you owe $2,500 more under the regular code, but your AMT bill is normally $5,000 more than your regular bill, you would still pay the AMT.
Payroll taxes
In addition to wages up to $102,000 - the current cap on salary subject to the payroll tax, which funds Social Security - Obama would also tax amounts over $250,000.
In other words, income between $102,000 and $250,000 would be protected.
Obama's stated goals are to better fund the Social Security program - which faces a long-term shortfall - and to make the system more progressive. Currently, the vast majority of Americans pay the Social Security tax on 100% of their income because they don't make more than the $102,000 wage cap. By contrast, very highly paid taxpayers only pay Social Security tax on a portion of their income. People who make $204,000, for example, only pay the tax on 50% of their income.
The rate at which salary is taxed for Social Security is 12.4% (half of which is normally paid by employees and half by their employers).
Obama hasn't said whether the money from wages and salaries over $250,000 would be taxed at the same rate. If it were, the person making $300,000 in gross income - $50,000 above the $250,000 watermark - would pay an additional $3,100 into the system annually (6.2% x $50,000).
We also don't know whether the benefits promised to the highest income workers would go up as a result of their paying more into the system.
"Those are details that Senator Obama would want to work out on a bipartisan basis with Congress," an Obama adviser said.
That lack of specificity concerns some tax experts. "If Obama is hinting that those making more than $250,000 would pay a higher payroll tax rate ... it would fundamentally change the way Social Security operates and run the risk of making the program look less like social insurance and more like welfare," Tax Vox blog editor Howard Gleickman wrote for the Tax Policy Center.
Investment income taxes
Long-term capital gains used to be taxed differently than dividends, which were subject to one's top income tax rate. Under the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, gains and dividends are treated equally. Currently the most one would pay is 15%.
Both rates are scheduled to rise by 2011 - long-term gains to 20% and dividends would once again be taxed a taxpayer's top income tax rate for dividends.
Obama would continue to treat gains and dividends equally and would keep the current rate in place for everyone except high-income households.
He hasn't specified how high he'd like to make the rate, but observers expect and Obama himself has virtually said that the new rate likely would fall between 20% and 25%.
Estate tax
Finally, Obama's proposals to tax wealth are not only defined by income levels.
When it comes to family wealth, for instance, Obama favors maintaining the estate tax, which is scheduled to be repealed in 2010 for one year. But he would limit its reach.
Obama would freeze the estate tax exemption amount at $3.5 million - up from its current $2 million level and the $1 million level it's set to revert to in 2011. He would also keep the current top rate of 45%, which is below the 55% it is set to revert to in 2011.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/27/news/economy/obama_wealthy_taxes/index.htm?postversion=2008062809
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I'm sorry, but i don't really see a problem with that. I make shit money and go to college. the fact that 20 percent of my paycheck gets taken out immediately hurts me a lot more than it does some jerkoff making 100k or more, and paying higher income taxes isnt going to hurt them the same way it would someone making 50k a year. The only thing you'd see is a slight dropoff is discressionary spending. I really don't see a problem with less bmw's on the road. The fact is, if you're making that much money, you're not hurting for money. the US would be better off 100% if the wealthier were taxed more. My parents easily fall into that bracket, and they readily admit they should be taxed more, cuz "they ain't hurting." I fail to see where the problem lies with this. Care to explain?
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He can tax the "rich" all he wants it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference anyway, the "rich" in the US are only about 1% of the population give or take. He's rich, you actually think taxing someone like him is going to make a difference?
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I'm sorry, but i don't really see a problem with that. I make shit money and go to college. the fact that 20 percent of my paycheck gets taken out immediately hurts me a lot more than it does some jerkoff making 100k or more, and paying higher income taxes isnt going to hurt them the same way it would someone making 50k a year. The only thing you'd see is a slight dropoff is discressionary spending. I really don't see a problem with less bmw's on the road. The fact is, if you're making that much money, you're not hurting for money. the US would be better off 100% if the wealthier were taxed more. My parents easily fall into that bracket, and they readily admit they should be taxed more, cuz "they ain't hurting." I fail to see where the problem lies with this. Care to explain?
Explain what? A lot of false assumptions in your post:
- The underlying problem is we're talking about the people's money. The government should always be trying to let the people keep more of their own money.
- A person making $100K or more isn't a "jerkoff." ::) How in the world do you know that a person making $100K doesn't have more family obligations than a person making $50K?
- A lot of small business owners are in the six-figure category and they are hardly wealthy.
- If you think that people who make six figures can't hurt for money then you need to hang around and learn more about people in that income category.
- People who make high incomes often got there through hard work. The government shouldn't punish success.
- The U.S. would not be better off if Americans were taxed more. (The "wealthy" are Americans too.) Less discretionary income means less spending in the market place, which means less revenue for business, which hurts all of us. Targeting one segment of the population to benefit another doesn't work.
That's all for now. Have to run . . .
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He can tax the "rich" all he wants it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference anyway, the "rich" in the US are only about 1% of the population give or take. He's rich, you actually think taxing someone like him is going to make a difference?
uhh the top 1% pay more than 70% of the nations taxes
Already.
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they arent taxing success, but you're being taxed for living in a nation that allows you to make as much money as possible. because of that, some is going to get taken away. You come down to the SPCA i volunteer at and tell me that people making 100k or more can't give up a little more money. I understand family obligations, but i see many housewives not working, driving luxury suv's and complaining about the cost of things. remember, the current housing boom happened because people wanted more than they could afford. Just because you make a certain amount of money does not mean you are entitled to a certain standard of living. I grew up in the east bay of the sf bay area, i still live there. Tons of money around here, i know all about it. My parents are quite wealthy, so i know the territory.
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OMG... I was planning on buying a McLaren F1 this year but thanks to Obama, I'll only be able to get a Ferrari ::)
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they arent taxing success,
Ok, you go out and start a business and tell me that when your being taxed because your business is doing good he is not taxing success.
but you're being taxed for living in a nation that allows you to make as much money as possible.
So are others, they have that same oppurtunity. That does not mean someelse needs to pick up the burden
You come down to the SPCA i volunteer at and tell me that people making 100k or more can't give up a little more money.
What is the point, donations are the key to success. You tax heavy and you think donations are going to come pouring in. Look at the recent numbers the Red Cross is bankrupt with the recent Iowa flooding, you think heavy taxes are going to cause people to give up more money out of pity, when the government is taking it away, and putting it towards programs that the 1% or the heavily taxed are going to use, lol get real
I understand family obligations, but i see many housewives not working, driving luxury suv's and complaining about the cost of things.
Free country, family is private matter, and those that make money have the right and obligation to let their families live comfortably, this is not an Odessa slave camp country.
remember, the current housing boom happened because people wanted more than they could afford.
LMFAO, good one. Yeah too bad the people that are sticking it through this fiasco are the ones that knew what they were getting into, and could afford it. You got it mixed up the ones that got hurt from this, are not the ones that are going to be getting taxes heavy bud, instead we will be paying for their "way out"
Just because you make a certain amount of money does not mean you are entitled to a certain standard of living.
LOL, want a bet. It's called an incentive driven economy
I grew up in the east bay of the sf bay area, i still live there. Tons of money around here, i know all about it. My parents are quite wealthy, so i know the territory.
I somehow doubt your from money, if so then you would not want others to have it so freely if you or your parents worked so hard to get it in the first place. FACT!
No one works their asses off to give to others that do nothing but ask for stuff.
OMG... I was planning on buying a McLaren F1 this year but thanks to Obama, I'll only be able to get a Ferrari ::)
I thought you were donating $3,000 a day for everytime HH6 did volunteer work for McCain? You of all people should know then that their are tier levels to the things we want. I'm willing to give McCain money cause I want him in office if I have to settle for Obama I'd rather keep my money in my pocket, so if someone wants to put their money on something you don't agree with, it's wrong? ::)
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I thought you were donating $3,000 a day for everytime HH6 did volunteer work for McCain? You of all people should know then that their are tier levels to the things we want. I'm willing to give McCain money cause I want him in office if I have to settle for Obama I'd rather keep my money in my pocket, so if someone wants to put their money on something you don't agree with, it's wrong? ::)
Fine, if you're going to pressure me, I'll give 3000.00 a day to Obama for you too.
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OMG... I was planning on buying a McLaren F1 this year but thanks to Obama, I'll only be able to get a Ferrari ::)
Yeah, no shit. If I'm "liberal" on a ceratin stance, it's taxes. Bill O'Loofah was bemoaning how he'd lose half of his total income to taxes under Obama's plan, which would mean that he'd be left with only five million dollars when everything's said and done. Poor guy!
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Being from money doesn't mean you can't feel differently about economics than other people. My dad is in media, my mom is a college professor. I've been given a broad view of the world in my upbringing and i see things differently than you. My folks don't drive luxury cars, they don't have a plasma tv and they don't eat out more than once a month. they easily could spend more money, but they don't. And guess what, they'll both be voting for McCain. Its just the life they choose to live, they don't feel some things are necessary to enjoy life, while other people feel that you have to drive a range rover to feel alive. I'm not saying the govt should be taking tons of money from people, but can you honestly say that people making 250k can't be taxed a bit more??
One more point, the idea of asking for money resulting in greater taxation is bs. I make very little money, go to school, pay my bills, pay for gasoline, rent etcetcetc... who are you to say that i'm not working my ass off? 40 hrs a week plus full time school is hard work. I'm not asking for handouts, but i do think it is complete bullshit that 20 % of my paycheck gets taken out immediately, yet someone who's making 200 grand can't pay a bit more in taxes so that i don't have to. it doesn't hurt their bottom line the same way it does mine. Fighting for food on your table isn't the same as fighting for payments on an unnecessary monthly payment for a mercedes.
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But don't you see there is the problem.
I make very little money, go to school, pay my bills, pay for gasoline, rent etcetcetc...
Your in school no one expects you to be making Clevelands right now, learning is great!
I'm not asking for handouts, but i do think it is complete bullshit that 20 % of
Your not. But guess what hundreds of millions of people are, and guess what they get it. In fact for people that have 2 jobs, 2 jobs, they do not get breaks in taxes in fact the system punishes them for having 2 jobs. Yet people out in the world (US) work under 30 hours for a reason and that is to collect checks from the government.
The more you tax those that are striving to better themselves the more you hurt the fabric of incentives and workmanship, and the worse society becomes. Emilie Durkheim wrote about this and so did numerous historians, if you make a nation into a social welfare state it will decay, no way around that.
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I'm not suggesting a social welfare system, but i do think it would improve the lives of many americans who make very little if the rich were taxed more so that those with little money could do more with their money. If a person has to choose between text books or a full stomach, guess what they're going to choose, the food! And if they can't afford the text books, how do they further their education levels? I, somehow, make too much money to qualify for most financial aid from the govt, and believe me, i don't make much at all. the difference is that i have a safety net in my parents that others don't. If it gets too rough (and when gas is 4.56 a gallon its getting close), i can do something other than run up a credit card balance, others don't have that liberty. How are people going to get an education if they can't afford it?
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To be honest Traps, not everyone was meant to get an education is the simple answer, it hurts but it's true. Some students have the talents causing them to exceed others and they are able to grasp higher oppurtunities and sponsorships and federal aid, scholorships. But sadly the current govt sees it different and has the view that everyone should get money with disregard to merits, putting bright minds like you (who do not have safety nets) in a financial bind and crisis, to the point when they do finish up school, they are in debt...alot of debt. But they keep fighting, as they see everyone around them that did not make it "actually make it" not marrying their significant others, having kids, working less than 30 hrs a week, the list goes on with system abuses.
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i grew up in America. a country and a government who has given me so much. i have no problem giving back to the country that i owe my success too. but enough is enough. were do we draw the line. i already pay out of my ass in taxes already. now your going to raise it more?
Obama has no problem with the current gas prices because we havnt had enough time to adjust to them. i agree with the adjusting part but not the price. but Obama becomes president and will raise my taxes 20%. i better hope he'll give me an adjustment so i can sell off have of my stuff to pay for his worthless social programs.
i just hope you poor liberals appreciate what wealthy people do for you, because the programs you want, are the programs you cant pay for.
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i grew up in America. a country and a government who has given me so much. i have no problem giving back to the country that i owe my success too. but enough is enough. were do we draw the line. i already pay out of my ass in taxes already. now your going to raise it more?
Obama has no problem with the current gas prices because we havnt had enough time to adjust to them. i agree with the adjusting part but not the price. but Obama becomes president and will raise my taxes 20%. i better hope he'll give me an adjustment so i can sell off have of my stuff to pay for his worthless social programs.
i just hope you poor liberals appreciate what wealthy people do for you, because the programs you want, are the programs you cant pay for.
What level of fucking retarded are you? You know how much this rule the world bullshit is costing you?!?!? Well, do you!!!! ::) yea, I grew up in America too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>:(
::)
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Why am I arguing with someone who is wired into the system... DHS... It's Job security to you now ::)
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i dont even know what the fuck your trying to say.
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Why am I arguing with someone who is wired into the system... DHS... It's Job security to you now ::)
if DHS folds tomorrow. ill have another job in a week.
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i dont even know what the fuck your trying to say.
really ::) You can't figure that out? I'm not sure I can state it at a more basic level. Go take a few vitamin B multi's and try again.
sorry, hope that helps.
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if DHS folds tomorrow. ill have another job in a week.
DHS was about consolidating power for Bush more than protecting anything.
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'rule the world bullshit'. no im not sure what that means. sitting on a plane making sure nobody with bad intentions does anything to cost our economy trillions of dollars. not sure how tht statement even got brought up.
i was expresing my compassion for liberals who believe in taxes. i have no problem paying them for you, but there is a point to draw the line. this is American were men are not created equal. sorry you got the short end of the stick, but dont expect everything from us at the top of it.
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DHS was about consolidating power for Bush more than protecting anything.
DHS already existed well before bush. only thing that was created was the TSA which doesnt make a difference just better security that is needed. 911 was well known, but none of out LE agencies shared or told each other what could happen. DHS simply puts all intelligence agencies under one rule so that mistake wont happen again.
technically your right, that is consolidating power. not sure if thats a bad thing.
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'rule the world bullshit'. no im not sure what that means. sitting on a plane making sure nobody with bad intentions does anything to cost our economy trillions of dollars. not sure how tht statement even got brought up.
i was expresing my compassion for liberals who believe in taxes. i have no problem paying them for you, but there is a point to draw the line. this is American were men are not created equal. sorry you got the short end of the stick, but dont expect everything from us at the top of it.
oh cut the bullshit... "enough is enough" ::) compassion for liberals my ass... Your post was a big fat uninformed middle finger and you I know it. The rule the world BS, everyone should know what that means, what the hell do you think the neocontards have been doing for the past 8 years ::) That's going to cost us up the ass, more than all the social programs probably combined!
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its not a middle finger to those in need. thats were my liberal side comes out. im talking about the single mom who works 2 jobs to put food on the table.
the middle finger goes to those who are jealous of the guy in the benz. its a middle finger to the low lifes who live off the government. its a middle finger to those who do nothing all day and complain why nothing is getting done.
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its not a middle finger to those in need. thats were my liberal side comes out. im talking about the single mom who works 2 jobs to put food on the table.
the middle finger goes to those who are jealous of the guy in the benz. its a middle finger to the low lifes who live off the government. its a middle finger to those who do nothing all day and complain why nothing is getting done.
I agree.
Also, we have to keep in mind that government is a big, bloated, wasteful, morass. It does not spend our money wisely. Increased taxes go right into the black hole.
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you two... LOL what a joke... your liberal side ::)
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yes my liberal side. i know people are less fortunite then me, and i have the obligation to give back. that does not give a free pass to those who do nothing. see the difference? probably not because the only thing you see is evil neocons who dont want to see half their paycheck disappear. you see us as selfish, and of course stupid because we dont have the same ideology as you who knows the secret to life. ::)
as soon as you realize this the better you will be. when i was a rookie cop living on the poverty line i did not look at that guy in the range rover saying ''what a prick'' when i couldnt even afford a car. i said good for him and maybee one day ill have something like that for myself. and i knew what i had to do.
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yes my liberal side. i know people are less fortunite then me, and i have the obligation to give back. that does not give a free pass to those who do nothing. see the difference? probably not because the only thing you see is evil neocons who dont want to see half their paycheck disappear. you see us as selfish, and of course stupid because we dont have the same ideology as you who knows the secret to life. ::)
as soon as you realize this the better you will be. when i was a rookie cop living on the poverty line i did not look at that guy in the range rover saying ''what a prick'' when i couldnt even afford a car. i said good for him and maybee one day ill have something like that for myself. and i knew what i had to do.
sorry bud, your attempt to fake the talk isn't working on me. In fact it sounds pretty silly... You want to talk the talk you best start walking the walk too. either you give a shit or you don't. If you do you're welcome, but all I see now is an attempt to play a point. You want to be liberal, do it, it's liberating and you'll be more than welcome but it's not easy, you need to be informed every day and have a genuine care for humanity and the world we live in. You need to really care about freedom and liberty, not the lousy psych put forth by repukicons
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You also need to be a moral skeptic, hate "the rich," and have an affinity for socialism.
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You also need to be a moral skeptic, hate "the rich," and have an affinity for socialism.
true that :) ... not sure about the moral skeptic but I'll follow the others.
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sorry bud, your attempt to fake the talk isn't working on me. In fact it sounds pretty silly... You want to talk the talk you best start walking the walk too. either you give a shit or you don't. If you do you're welcome, but all I see now is an attempt to play a point. You want to be liberal, do it, it's liberating and you'll be more than welcome but it's not easy, you need to be informed every day and have a genuine care for humanity and the world we live in. You need to really care about freedom and liberty, not the lousy psych put forth by repukicons
ive been shot, stabbed, and beaten for humanity. ive helped more people, saved more lives, and have done more for humanity then most liberals pretend to do.
in fact im more liberal then anyone here will ever believe. but the day after day the view towards anyone with a conservative viewpoint is put under the umbrella of neocon asshole which i have a hard time tolerating.
you and i see humanity differently. i do what i can. you say ''what can others do''.
i think government should be there to help us with things we cant control. disasters, criminals, and yes those who CANT makes ends meet. such as the single mom whos working 2 jobs... the government should not to be there to save people from things they can control.
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ive been shot, stabbed, and beaten for humanity. ive helped more people, saved more lives, and have done more for humanity then most liberals pretend to do.
ahahahahahhaahhahhahahhahhahaahhahahhahahhahaha.... I've been shot, stabbed and beaten for humanity.... LOLOLOLOLOL... Are you for real... I do not mean to degrade your service as a peace officer, but let's not blow this up to superman proportions lol.
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ahahahahahhaahhahhahahhahhahaahhahahhahahhahaha.... I've been shot, stabbed and beaten for humanity.... LOLOLOLOLOL but let's not blow this up to superman proportions lol.
and lets not get too carried away with the dramatics either.
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and lets not get too carried away with the dramatics either.
I'm not the one putting on the superman costume ;)