Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on June 28, 2008, 01:07:41 PM
-
Bush calls for more penalties against Zimbabwe
WASHINGTON - President Bush said Saturday the U.S. was working on ways to further punish Zimbabwe's longtime leader and his allies, saying Robert Mugabe leads an "illegitimate government" that retained power only through a fraudulent election.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080628/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_zimbabwe
-
Bush calls for more penalties against Zimbabwe
WASHINGTON - President Bush said Saturday the U.S. was working on ways to further punish Zimbabwe's longtime leader and his allies, saying Robert Mugabe leads an "illegitimate government" that retained power only through a fraudulent election.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080628/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_zimbabwe
Not much? The rest of the world is right there alongside us saying the same thing. Unless you think the democrats torture, beat and murder the republicans and vice versa?
-
Not much? The rest of the world is right there alongside us saying the same thing. Unless you think the democrats torture, beat and murder the republicans and vice versa?
Zip... right over your head. I know many are of the same opinion on the issue. That doesn't mean they don't laugh at the hypocracy of bush delivering the message. That is the foundation of my question.
-
Why some of us here care what the rest of the world thinks about what we do or how we do what we do is beyond me.
Who cares? And for those that do care...you shouldn't.
-
Why some of us here care what the rest of the world thinks about what we do or how we do what we do is beyond me.
Who cares? And for those that do care...you shouldn't.
Wait, so let me get this straight... We're all over this New World Order, Rule the World, You're either with us or your against us Bullshit and you think only American Citizens should ought to have an interest in our affairs... Well isn't that precious...
-
Why some of us here care what the rest of the world thinks about what we do or how we do what we do is beyond me.
Who cares? And for those that do care...you shouldn't.
I sure don't.
-
I sure don't.
So rule the world and to fuck what they think about it... I think that's global tyranny. Nice BB...
-
So rule the world and to fuck what they think about it... I think that's global tyranny. Nice BB...
Yes. Don't forget provide humanitarian aid all over the globe. But yes, who gives a rip what they think?
-
Yes. Don't forget provide humanitarian aid all over the globe. But yes, who gives a rip what they think?
Dude, with the US forcing counties to comply or die you cannot deny.... ahhahahaha... if the glove does not fit, you must acquit! LOL shit I just cracked myself up... anyway aid my ass, that should never equate to buying support. When I give, I do not expect; only an ass would. So in the end, if we're going to agressivly press our policy on the world, they have every goddmaned right to give a shit.
-
Dude, with the US forcing counties to comply or die you cannot deny.... ahhahahaha... if the glove does not fit, you must acquit! LOL shit I just cracked myself up... anyway aid my ass, that should never equate to buying support. When I give, I do not expect; only an ass would. So in the end, if we're going to agressivly press our policy on the world, they have every goddmaned right to give a shit.
We don't buy support. We provide humanitarian aid like no other country in the world because it's the right thing to do.
-
Yes. Don't forget provide humanitarian aid all over the globe. But yes, who gives a rip what they think?
Agreed, but as an aside, numerous nations have that exact same point, especially European nations as of course they are the world leaders in aid donations per capita, all the top 10 largest givers pp are European, been that way for years. Aiding poorer nations/people is normal for nations/people, as all 1st world nations gives to the 2nd/3rd.
-
We don't buy support.
OHHHHHH... priceless.... do I leave this for 240 as a gift or should I just go ahead and destroy you... "We don't buy support" LOL... quick, better double check that. Is that your final answer :D
-
Agreed, but as an aside, numerous nations have that exact same point, especially European nations as of course they are the world leaders in aid donations per capita, all the top 10 largest givers pp are European, been that way for years. Aiding poorer nations/people is normal for nations/people, as all 1st world nations gives to the 2nd/3rd.
What about disaster relief? It would surprise me if we did not lead the world in this area. We are always one of the first in line to assist with disasters all around the world. We even provide, or at least offer, assistance to countries that hate us.
-
OHHHHHH... priceless.... do I leave this for 240 as a gift or should I just go ahead and destroy you... "We don't buy support" LOL... quick, better double check that. Is that your final answer :D
Final answer Alex. :) We do not provide humanitarian relief because we're trying to obtain that country's support. That's absurd.
If you're going to destroy me you better hurry because I have to leave soon. :D
-
What about disaster relief? It would surprise me if we did not lead the world in this area. We are always one of the first in line to assist with disasters all around the world. We even provide, or at least offer, assistance to countries that hate us.
Yes, true. So do the rest of the 1st world.
The Caribbean works like - the richer half send aid to poor ones, constantly. It's the way the whole world works. The US, Europe, Canada, Australia, Japan, S Korea etc - dish out billions to poorer nations year in year out. Most of us are at like $20 - $20 per capita annually, Europe tends to be $100+ per capita up to Luxembourg at $500+, which may also help explain why they are stuck with the highest income tax in the world. Ew.
-
Final answer Alex. :) We do not provide humanitarian relief because we're trying to obtain that country's support. That's absurd.
If you're going to destroy me you better hurry because I have to leave soon. :D
I'm not Alex ??? and we do buy support. wager?
-
wait, humanitarian support, no... I don't know of that, but we buy nation's support. That is what I was reffering to when I read you saying we do not buy support.
-
I'm not Alex ??? and we do buy support. wager?
You asked if that was my final answer, which is a line from Jeopardy. Alex Trebek is the host of Jeopardy.
I'm talking about humanitarian aid. No, we do not give humanitarian aid to countries in an attempt to buy support. And no I'm not going to wager. It's too silly and can't be proved one way or the other.
-
wait, humanitarian support, no... I don't know of that, but we buy nation's support. That is what I was reffering to when I read you saying we do not buy support.
Ah so. Yes, I believe we provide money, weapons, etc. to countries in exchange for information, support, etc.
-
The world laughing at us? ::)
You are on Earth, right?
So the millions that apply for work, and travel visas are laughing at us, and begging for financial aid?
I would call that a plea not a laugh.
-
Zip... right over your head. I know many are of the same opinion on the issue. That doesn't mean they don't laugh at the hypocracy of bush delivering the message. That is the foundation of my question.
I get it Hugo.
-
Ah so. Yes, I believe we provide money, weapons, etc. to countries in exchange for information, support, etc.
yes... I jumped on your sentence with glory then did a double take on that last post so we agree on this point. We do buy support for coalitions, and well whatever it is we're buying at that time. There are different deals for differrent things. I do know quite a bit of the coalition in the war on terror was bought in one way or antother.
-
Wait, so let me get this straight... We're all over this New World Order, Rule the World, You're either with us or your against us Bullshit and you think only American Citizens should ought to have an interest in our affairs... Well isn't that precious...
Pretty much
-
Why some of us here care what the rest of the world thinks about what we do or how we do what we do is beyond me.
Who cares? And for those that do care...you shouldn't.
The US has a long and storied history of commenting and acting on what the world does, both publically and privately.
The whole election has constant talk about Iraq, Iran, Israel, N Korea, Cuba, whether to talk to leaders they don't like. 130 nations have US military in them. Vietnam, Korea, Grenada, Panama, Shah of Iran scene, Contras etc - over the years the list is endless. Here, barring some form of tragedy, we don't care less what the rest of the world does, we only care about the US as they interject into our affairs non stop.
The US premise focuses greatly on what the rest of the world does. Fact. It is the stereotypical arrogance to assume that should only cut one way....
-
Pretty much
pretty much what? The world should take it up the ass and shut their mouth about it?
Side note: I know we oppose eachother politically and not that you give a crap, but I appreciate your contribution on the board you mod. I've read so many of your posts/advices It's odd to oppose you here. No hard feelings I hope.
-
pretty much what? The world should take it up the ass and shut their mouth about it?
Take it up the ass? No, that's not what I mean. I'm just saying I don't believe it should be that big of a concern to the U.S. as to how other countries view us. No, I don't think the U.S. should conduct itself in a manner that defies all other nations simply to do so. But when speaking of a nation, any nation, it is that nations responsibility to do what's best for it, regardless of what others think. Granted, if this goes against basic "humanity" principles, then sure, that's going to far.
Side note: I know we oppose eachother politically and not that you give a crap, but I appreciate your contribution on the board you mod. I've read so many of your posts/advices It's odd to oppose you here. No hard feelings I hope.
No hard feelings whatsoever. That's one of the beauties of life...being able to talk and disagree about things that matter, yet while remaining civil.
I have many people who I consider friends that disagree with me politically, but we get along just fine. Another one of my clients is an arch bishop in the Episcopal church...for those that don't know, Episcopalians are typically on the very far left politically...he and I discuss things quite frequently...I have a lot of respect for the guy. We disagree more often then not, but they are typically good conversations. I've found that many times, you can learn more from someone who opposes your views then from someone who is a carbon copy...it gives you a better understanding of humanity IMO. Granted, humanity would be so much nicer if everyone thought like Arnold jr, lol!
BTW, thanks for the props on my posts/advice. For more of Arnold jr phenomenal advice, check out probodybuilding.com...we're launching that site Olympia wk end.
-
Take it up the ass? No, that's not what I mean. I'm just saying I don't believe it should be that big of a concern to the U.S. as to how other countries view us. No, I don't think the U.S. should conduct itself in a manner that defies all other nations simply to do so. But when speaking of a nation, any nation, it is that nations responsibility to do what's best for it, regardless of what others think. Granted, if this goes against basic "humanity" principles, then sure, that's going to far.
No hard feelings whatsoever. That's one of the beauties of life...being able to talk and disagree about things that matter, yet while remaining civil.
I have many people who I consider friends that disagree with me politically, but we get along just fine. Another one of my clients is an arch bishop in the Episcopal church...for those that don't know, Episcopalians are typically on the very far left politically...he and I discuss things quite frequently...I have a lot of respect for the guy. We disagree more often then not, but they are typically good conversations. I've found that many times, you can learn more from someone who opposes your views then from someone who is a carbon copy...it gives you a better understanding of humanity IMO. Granted, humanity would be so much nicer if everyone thought like Arnold jr, lol!
BTW, thanks for the props on my posts/advice. For more of Arnold jr phenomenal advice, check out probodybuilding.com...we're launching that site Olympia wk end.
cool! good attitude and perspective! Look forward to seeing the site too.
-
As much as u want everybody to hate us...sorry dude..most are jealous. Mugabe is a thug and nobody is going to point fingers at the US over this. They would love it if we'd knock him off. Hugo just because u hate the US and think eveything is a big CT or operation to screw u over its not. Relax.
-
He needs to loosen up the tin foil hat
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2001/2258345996_a5fe2f9ced.jpg?v=0)
-
I'm pretty sure the white minority in Zimbabwe has something to do with all of this bullshit. My understanding is that Mugabe's only sin is that he introduced land reform legislation that took land away from the white minorities and gave it to the black majorities. He also nullifid grants-concessions with many foreign mining companies that had initially gotten these "free rides" during colonial times, when you were able to put a gun to someone's head and force them to make a decision that was later on masqueraded as "legitimate" by successive historian fairy-tale telling.
Mugabe's doing what is "fair": Giving the land back to the people from whom it was stolen. His ways of going about it are not Kosher, but neither was/is/will be ours.
-
<chuckle> the white minority is less than 5% of the population, but over 90% of the wealth accumulation and distribution. I guess you don't know abut the economic consequences he introduced the country to during his "taking land away from whitey" approach including rapid inflation, and drastic lost of civil liberties, and civil rights!
Free rides? Do you even know what your talking about, the companies were pumping money into the lower tier labor jobs, and giving people economic freedoms. He took this away with your "giving land back to the people"
What better way of dominating people than to have them rely soley on the government instead of "whitey" outside influences.
-
<chuckle> the white minority is less than 5% of the population, but over 90% of the wealth accumulation and distribution. I guess you don't know abut the economic consequences he introduced the country to during his "taking land away from whitey" approach including rapid inflation, and drastic lost of civil liberties, and civil rights!
Free rides? Do you even know what your talking about, the companies were pumping money into the lower tier labor jobs, and giving people economic freedoms. He took this away with your "giving land back to the people"
What better way of dominating people than to have them rely soley on the government instead of "whitey" outside influences.
Don't get me wrong youandme, I agree with you on most of the things you say, but you cannot say that these white minorities did not have it coming. I mean that surreal distribution of income along racial lines can only be kept for so long you know... especially when you're less than 5% of the population. All it takes is a little Hitler like Mugabe for the majority to be spurred into a hate frenzy, but again, any blind person could see this coming from a mile away.
I do agree that Mugabe is introducing bullshit economic reforms that really damage the economy of the country, but you have to understand, who "suffers" the most when there's an economic collapse, the ones holding 90% of the wealth or the ones holding only 10%? You also have to understand that blacks are mainly peasants and are minimally affected by the dire economic status quo. Da blacks live in a barter economy so whether inflation is 1% or 1 billion percent... they could care less.
I also agree with you that Mugabe cares very little about black Zimbabweans, I think his land reform had very little to do with giving the land back to the majorities but more to do with taking away the mining grants/rights of all these foreign mining companies that are sucking the money out of the country and leaving only 10% to the local population, 9% of that to the white Zimbabweans of course.
The situation is where it is now because 1% of the population (white) was holding 70% of the land. Let's be realistic. And it's like this all over Africa... well, the parts of Africa that hide rich resources of course.
-
As much as u want everybody to hate us...sorry dude..most are jealous. Mugabe is a thug and nobody is going to point fingers at the US over this. They would love it if we'd knock him off. Hugo just because u hate the US and think eveything is a big CT or operation to screw u over its not. Relax.
HUH? are you talking to me? :-\ Must not be. I don't want anyone to hate us and never have. You're right Mugabe is thug, should have been offed by now. I do not Hate the US ::) WTF? This has got to be another get me to melt post. ;D I get it. It is kinda fun but I'm going to play nice for a bit. I can't meltdown all the time.
-
Slapper...as much as u might feel guilty about Africa....the Whites built Africa....they built Rodesia and South Africa....those places are shitholes now..shitholes. The people that suffered under white rule in South Africa, are still suffering now under Black rule. They have butchered and murdered each other wholesale all over the continent.
-
Does this paisan look like he cares about GE going down 5% in the last quarter or inflation going up 56% in the last month?
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Shona_witch_doctor_(Zimbabwe).jpg/300px-Shona_witch_doctor_(Zimbabwe).jpg)
Let's be realistic over here... ::) ::) ::)
-
Slapper...as much as u might feel guilty about Africa....the Whites built Africa....they built Rodesia and South Africa....those places are shitholes now..shitholes. The people that suffered under white rule in South Africa, are still suffering now under Black rule. They have butchered and murdered each other wholesale all over the continent.
I do not feel guilty about Africa at all. I do have an issue with a population that has "inherited" 70% of the land while they only need 5% of it to survive and economically thrive and is not willing to share the richness of the country. Oh! And white Zimbabweans do not mix with black Zimbabweans. That is another problem that speak volumes about the nature of their "stay" in the country.
White Zimbabweans could've been a lot smarter and done generational justice by undoing some of what their forefathers have done, namely a more just redistribution of land, hence income. Far from doing that what they did was perpetuate the system of privilege their granddaddies had set up a century or two before. So... can you feel sorry for these people? I actually do, but man, talk about setting yourself up!
-
I could care less....the whites built those countries...u can redistribute the land until ur blue in the face...they have done nothing with it. Africa is an economic blackhole for the West. The whites don't have to mix with the Blacks if they don't want to. The white treated them badly to an extent but they provided job and economic stability. I'm not really going to debate this crap...I'm nota bleeding heart liberal...all this means is that at some point we'll have to intervene in something that I could care less about.
-
I could care less....the whites built those countries...u can redistribute the land until ur blue in the face...they have done nothing with it. Africa is an economic blackhole for the West. The whites don't have to mix with the Blacks if they don't want to. The white treated them badly to an extent but they provided job and economic stability. I'm not really going to debate this crap...I'm nota bleeding heart liberal...all this means is that at some point we'll have to intervene in something that I could care less about.
It's amazing how LITTLE you care just about everything and, at the same time, how much IN EVERYONE'S BUSINESS you seem to be or seem to be in favor of being. You say you have no choice but intervening in something you do not care about, yet you do, or accepted the fact that you will have to some time in the future. Hence you end up doing what you do not want to do. Wow! That is a nice way to go through life I tell ya!
Quite a dychotomy. Hypocrisy I think it's called. ;)
Aside from your psychological issues... wouldn't you say that injustice begets instability? I mean, Africans were fine-n-dandy prancing around their jungles and savanahs until whitey showed up. Back in da day they were pretty contempt walking around naked eating whatever they found while looking for a shitting spot, until the problem came to them. They were not looking for the problem.
And do me a favor stop with that "you can't handle the truth" bullshit.
-
The world laughing at us? ::)
You are on Earth, right?
So the millions that apply for work, and travel visas are laughing at us, and begging for financial aid?
I would call that a plea not a laugh.
Good point. People all over the world are laughing their way to the INS trying to become American citizens.
-
Don't get me wrong youandme, I agree with you on most of the things you say, but you cannot say that these white minorities did not have it coming. I mean that surreal distribution of income along racial lines can only be kept for so long you know... especially when you're less than 5% of the population. All it takes is a little Hitler like Mugabe for the majority to be spurred into a hate frenzy, but again, any blind person could see this coming from a mile away.
I do agree that Mugabe is introducing bullshit economic reforms that really damage the economy of the country, but you have to understand, who "suffers" the most when there's an economic collapse, the ones holding 90% of the wealth or the ones holding only 10%? You also have to understand that blacks are mainly peasants and are minimally affected by the dire economic status quo. Da blacks live in a barter economy so whether inflation is 1% or 1 billion percent... they could care less.
I also agree with you that Mugabe cares very little about black Zimbabweans, I think his land reform had very little to do with giving the land back to the majorities but more to do with taking away the mining grants/rights of all these foreign mining companies that are sucking the money out of the country and leaving only 10% to the local population, 9% of that to the white Zimbabweans of course.
The situation is where it is now because 1% of the population (white) was holding 70% of the land. Let's be realistic. And it's like this all over Africa... well, the parts of Africa that hide rich resources of course.
True Slap.
But believe me they were much happier with the "colony" distrubution than having their children starve to death, and the government print up more money that means and is worth next to nothing.
Good point on the economic and racial volatility.
I agree the economic dividie (gini ratio) is drastic, but in that country the divergence is what helps people actually make money and provide for themselves. Mugabe just does nothing, it's pathetic. If your going to control people they need substinence, and he gives them nothing unlike other leaders who tried the same control tactics but actually had plans (Hitler - work, Stalin - work, etc) Mugabe has no infrastructure or idea of economy, the class tier structure provides that backbone that is necessary for economic structure.
Slapper it's not about how Africans were fine before the British colonization, in fact things were awful. They practiced Suti (sp) which they would burn their wives alive when her husband died, and they would kill children and practice cannabilism. David Livingston and other expedition teams tried to teach them, then the Rothchilds and the Pitt family got involved and it did turn out to be a economic "hunt" rather than a Christian expedition. All in all some countries need guidance, Africa is one of those countries.