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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Straw Man on July 13, 2008, 03:09:25 PM
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more news from Hell
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4326321.ece
Taliban insurgents killed nine US troops when they attempted to overrun an American base as bloody fighting broke out in several parts of Afghanistan today.
Nato reported that the small American Combat Outpost in Dara-I-Pech district of Kunar Province, on the border with Nuristan Province in the east of the country, came under heavy fire at around 4.30am local time. Heavy fighting continued throughout the day with US forces calling in artillery, fast jets and Apache helicopters.
Nato spokesmen warned of casualties "on both sides", and in the last few minutes it has emerged that nine American soldiers were killed, making it one of the biggest single losses in a day for the coalition since military operations began in the country.
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Wow I was just gonna post this. You know what's fucking sad to me is that Tony Snow and Tim Russert will get shitload of airtime but we won't even probably hear the names of these soldiers that were killed. Just that "9" soldiers were killed. Maybe a year later the media will mention their names. It amazes me how disconnected we as a country are from this war. God Bless America!
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U will find their names ina few days....after the famlies are notified. Why do u care anyway....join up then.
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Who fucking cares.
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KORENGAL VALLEY, Afghanistan, July 12, 2008 – The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff yesterday took the opportunity to present 12 paratroopers with awards here for valorous and heroic achievements in combat.
Navy Adm. Mike Mullen pinned five Army Commendation Medals with valor devices, five Purple Heart Medals, one Bronze Star with valor device, and one Silver Star on the troopers’ chests during a ceremony at their combat outpost here.
“It’s an honor and privilege to be here,” Mullen said to the awardees. “This ceremony is about individuals who represent the sacrifice of so many.”
The paratroopers are assigned to 2nd Battalion, 503rd Parachute Infantry Regiment, 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team, and have been operating in the valley for 14 months. Though their tour at the secluded combat outpost has been somewhat primitive, with few luxuries and the bare necessities, their mission of counterinsurgency has been quite complex.
The troopers often found themselves patrolling the rugged Korengal Valley and surrounding areas for days at a time with little contact with the rest of the world. Only radio communication and a keen sense of their environment kept the rotation of patrolling squads and platoons connected with even their isolated outpost, soldiers explained.
Army Capt. Greg Ambrosia, executive officer of Company A and recipient of the Silver Star that Mullen awarded here, said he can attribute his leadership and confidence during such patrols to the lives he saved during one particular encounter with Taliban fighters on the night of Sept. 27.
Ambrosia and his men set up a makeshift outpost after a nighttime air assault into the valley. The troopers made contact with the enemy early the next morning, receiving a hail of rocket-propelled grenades and gunfire. But they couldn’t spot where exactly the attack was coming from, he said.
His basic function and responsibility was to radio information from the company commander in a nearby mounted element on the side of the mountain back to the battalion headquarters, he continued.
“We spotted an enemy scout and eventually made contact, but he was able to [disengage and communicate] our location to other fighters in the valley,” Ambrosia said.
Ambrosia’s element had a translator monitoring the enemy communication with a basic one-way radio. After the initial contact, it was quiet for about 45 minutes. The interpreter continued to monitor the radio, and Ambrosia learned that the scout was coordinating with other enemy fighters in the area to launch an attack, he explained.
Soon there were at least three enemy elements with three to five fighters each closing in on the platoon. So close, in fact, they were in hand-grenade range of his troops, he said....
...“They were able to get to really close using the terrain,” he continued. “At one point, I started calling the vehicles in the valley to start shooting on our position, because the enemy was too close to call in artillery or mortar fire.”
“So we ended up having our guys shooting on our own position,” he continued.
Even though Ambrosia and his men maintained some safety behind a mound of rocks, the smoke from the mounted vehicle engulfed their position. He began call for aerial support from AH-64 Apache helicopters, he said.
Enemy radio traffic intercepted by Ambrosia’s interpreter let the paratroopers know the insurgents planned to overrun their position and take them hostage, but they were able to repel the attack, he said.
However, Ambrosia’s radio requests for Apaches to provide aerial support wouldn’t arrive for another 45 minutes, he added.
“That’s when it began to get really hairy,” he said. “The enemy was getting really close and using hand grenades.”
Ambrosia’s actions and direction of his men repelled the enemy fighters long enough for the helicopters to arrive. The modest captain said he doesn’t know exactly how many enemies were killed, but knows that two of his men were wounded. None were killed.
“I’m very thankful for that,” Ambrosia said.
“It has been a very dangerous time here,” Mullen told the troopers. “You’re almost home; it’s not far off, so stay focused and get home safe. I can’t say enough about how impressed and proud I am of what you’ve accomplished.
The battalion has already begun redeploying troopers. The entire battalion should conclude its 15-month deployment and be back at home station in Vicenza, Italy, by the end of the month.
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::)
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U will find their names ina few days....after the famlies are notified. Why do u care anyway....join up then.
Why do I care? Because no matter how misguided someone is I don't like to see fellow human beings and Americans being killed. And as long as there are troops dying overseas for a misguided and corrupt cause makes it even worse and more tragic and I think our country should give a shit, make some sacrifices here at home. It bothers me that 21 year old young kids are over their fighting for a cause they think is just while I see similar 21 year olds at home going to movies, getting drunk at bars, and living without a care in the world. Whatever your views on American foreign policy, military and the war EVERYONE needs to care and take notice. And no I won't join up. I don't believe in the war on terror. But if my country asked me to go fight the mexican drug cartels south of the border, a real threat to my family and our way of life then I would in a heartbeat. In fact I've thought about joining the DEA/Border Patrol but the war on drugs is a joke and like the U.S. military our government has turned their fucking back on the Border Patrol. But I feel for the Americans who live down in the border towns. Their country and government has left them out to dry. Right now in my life I don't feel America is worth fighting for at the moment when everyone is selling this country out at the top. In fact I would love for martial law to come to the doorsteps of American neighborhoods........... .that would a be real cause to stand up and fight for. A revolution against the U.S. Government and the private wealthy elite that run this country is a true cause to fight for.
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Why do I care? Because no matter how misguided someone is I don't like to see fellow human beings and Americans being killed. And as long as there are troops dying overseas for a misguided and corrupt cause makes it even worse and more tragic and I think our country should give a shit, make some sacrifices here at home. It bothers me that 21 year old young kids are over their fighting for a cause they think is just while I see similar 21 year olds at home going to movies, getting drunk at bars, and living without a care in the world. Whatever your views on American foreign policy, military and the war EVERYONE needs to care and take notice. And no I won't join up. I don't believe in the war on terror. But if my country asked me to go fight the mexican drug cartels south of the border, a real threat to my family and our way of life then I would in a heartbeat. In fact I've thought about joining the DEA/Border Patrol but the war on drugs is a joke and like the U.S. military our government has turned their fucking back on the Border Patrol. But I feel for the Americans who live down in the border towns. Their country and government has left them out to dry. Right now in my life I don't feel America is worth fighting for at the moment when everyone is selling this country out at the top. In fact I would love for martial law to come to the doorsteps of American neighborhoods........... .that would a be real cause to stand up and fight for. A revolution against the U.S. Government and the private wealthy elite that run this country is a true cause to fight for.
First off, it's Afghanistan, not Iraq.
And secondly, who the hell are you to tell them that their cause isn't just? Do you realize how stupid you sound? You're trying to talk down to the soldiers because you don't think their cause is just. What position of power are you in to even think you can justify doing that? Just think, if they weren't in Afghanistan, they could play internet warrior on a bodybuilding forum's political board instead! ::)
I reckon there would be many a service member that would punch your teeth down your throat if you told them to their face that they didn't know shit and you were better than them for disagreeing with a war. What a twat.
Of course, I suspect you'll meltdown and ramble on about establishing martial law on the American homefront and other stupid shit.
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Wow I was just gonna post this. You know what's fucking sad to me is that Tony Snow and Tim Russert will get shitload of airtime but we won't even probably hear the names of these soldiers that were killed. Just that "9" soldiers were killed. Maybe a year later the media will mention their names. It amazes me how disconnected we as a country are from this war. God Bless America!
remind me again, why would the name be of any importance to you? Would you feel better or worse?
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First off, it's Afghanistan, not Iraq.
And secondly, who the hell are you to tell them that their cause isn't just? Do you realize how stupid you sound? You're trying to talk down to the soldiers because you don't think their cause is just. What position of power are you in to even think you can justify doing that? Just think, if they weren't in Afghanistan, they could play internet warrior on a bodybuilding forum's political board instead! ::)
I reckon there would be many a service member that would punch your teeth down your throat if you told them to their face that they didn't know shit and you were better than them for disagreeing with a war. What a twat.
Of course, I suspect you'll meltdown and ramble on about establishing martial law on the American homefront and other stupid shit.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank BF for saving me the time and energy of posting this...great job.
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Why do I care? Because no matter how misguided someone is I don't like to see fellow human beings and Americans being killed. And as long as there are troops dying overseas for a misguided and corrupt cause makes it even worse and more tragic and I think our country should give a shit, make some sacrifices here at home. It bothers me that 21 year old young kids are over their fighting for a cause they think is just while I see similar 21 year olds at home going to movies, getting drunk at bars, and living without a care in the world. Whatever your views on American foreign policy, military and the war EVERYONE needs to care and take notice. And no I won't join up. I don't believe in the war on terror. But if my country asked me to go fight the mexican drug cartels south of the border, a real threat to my family and our way of life then I would in a heartbeat. In fact I've thought about joining the DEA/Border Patrol but the war on drugs is a joke and like the U.S. military our government has turned their fucking back on the Border Patrol. But I feel for the Americans who live down in the border towns. Their country and government has left them out to dry. Right now in my life I don't feel America is worth fighting for at the moment when everyone is selling this country out at the top. In fact I would love for martial law to come to the doorsteps of American neighborhoods........... .that would a be real cause to stand up and fight for. A revolution against the U.S. Government and the private wealthy elite that run this country is a true cause to fight for.
Since u admit doing steroids, I doubt u would pass the Lie detetctor test fro DEA, and I will have to assume ur GPA is 3.0 or better. Oh and feel free to take up arms against the US, some well armed FBI agent will have no problem double tapping ur worthless ass.
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remind me again, why would the name be of any importance to you? Would you feel better or worse?
It was a figurative comment genius.
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Since u admit doing steroids, I doubt u would pass the Lie detetctor test fro DEA, and I will have to assume ur GPA is 3.0 or better. Oh and feel free to take up arms against the US, some well armed FBI agent will have no problem double tapping ur worthless ass.
Haha you think everyone that has ever passed a lie detector test has never used drugs or never lied? You're intelligence or lack there of continues to astonish me. Kind of like Bush.
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Haha you think everyone that has ever passed a lie detector test has never used drugs or never lied? You're intelligence or lack there of continues to astonish me. Kind of like Bush.
LOL arent you the one who started a thread about not knowing who is using all the drugs in America b/c you personally didnt know anyone who used them... ::) brilliant
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Who fucking cares.
idiot
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LOL arent you the one who started a thread about not knowing who is using all the drugs in America b/c you personally didnt know anyone who used them... ::) brilliant
Haha yeah sorry I've used steroids and tried marijuana but I personally don't know anyone who's a fucking coke and H junkie. Unlike you who seems to know everyone and their brother who uses coke,H and meth??????????????? ::) You missed the point of the post genius. Point being everyone that passes a lie detector test has never used drugs? Everyone in the DEA has never used drugs? Yeah ok.
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7 years is the deal....plus with the hiring freeze...i doubt they need u. Besides do u realize that u could get sent to Afghanistan anyway. U have no military background but if u were worth a shit they could very well send u on one of the teams....so ur not going to be battling just mexican drug cartels.
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Haha yeah sorry I've used steroids and tried marijuana but I personally don't know anyone who's a fucking coke and H junkie. Unlike you who seems to know everyone and their brother who uses coke,H and meth??????????????? ::) You missed the point of the post genius. Point being everyone that passes a lie detector test has never used drugs? Everyone in the DEA has never used drugs? Yeah ok.
LOL it was you who missed the point brainchild...you bashing others intelligence when yours is questionable at best is very ironic. I dont know anybody who is a junkie, but that doesnt mean im ignorant and cant understand why america has a drug problem or who is using drugs in america b/c i dont know anybody who does such as yourself. I completely understand your point and agree that the lie detector doesnt catch everybody shoot i got friends in the fire department that have lied on theres so...
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Serious question as I don't hear a lot coming out of Afghanistan minus this... Is is better or worse?
I feel that we should be putting our troops there to stabilize that area and destroy the Taliban... Not be wasting time in Iraq.
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I feel that we should be putting our troops there to stabilize that area and destroy the Taliban... Not be wasting time in Iraq.
President Obama's stance in a nutshell.
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What SENATOR Obama knows about either operation would fill a shot glass. He chairsa committee on Afghanistan, that he has never called into session. AQA is getting stonger because they're bugging out of Iraq. There are alot of places to attack and unlike Iraq, alot of places for the foreign fighters to hide. The country is rough and hard to fight in. Air is not always available because we don't have air fields everywhere.
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What SENATOR Obama knows about either operation would fill a shot glass. He chairsa committee on Afghanistan, that he has never called into session. AQA is getting stonger because they're bugging out of Iraq. There are alot of places to attack and unlike Iraq, alot of places for the foreign fighters to hide. The country is rough and hard to fight in. Air is not always available because we don't have air fields everywhere.
Duh duh duhhhhhhhhh! Russia learned that the hard way!
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U realize we took down the entire country with a single Special Forces group, some CIA guys and strike aircraft. Please don't mike snide comments on a country u couldn't have found on the map on Sept 10, 2001.
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The only reason Afghanistan is still a fucking problem is because of those cocksuckers in Pakistan. Who in their right mind would negotiate with a bunch of tribal retards and actually expect them to govern themselves? Ever since Pakistan gave autonomy to those douche bags in the northwest, things have gone to shit in Afghanistan. Terrorist camps all over the area, insurgents and terrorists walking around without impunity and having control over the entire area. Not to mention the Pakistani Intelligence and Army turning a blind eye to Taliban actions.
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LOL it was you who missed the point brainchild...you bashing others intelligence when yours is questionable at best is very ironic. I dont know anybody who is a junkie, but that doesnt mean im ignorant and cant understand why america has a drug problem or who is using drugs in america b/c i dont know anybody who does such as yourself. I completely understand your point and agree that the lie detector doesnt catch everybody shoot i got friends in the fire department that have lied on theres so...
No I understand there are a lot of people who use drugs in America. But my question was more along the lines of the demographics of who's using all those drugs. Inner city blacks and poor rural whites cannot possibly account for the billions of billions of dollars worth drugs that flow into this country every year. So has drug use sky rocketed among the wealthy? Among the middle class? That was my point? Of course I know America has a drug problem. I was at a restuarant with my gf and Mark McGrath walked up to her asking her if she knew where he could score some "drugs". I know a lot of people that smoke weed and use steroids. But meth? H? What is the demographic these days for those drugs? That was my point.
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No I understand there are a lot of people who use drugs in America. But my question was more along the lines of the demographics of who's using all those drugs. Inner city blacks and poor rural whites cannot possibly account for the billions of billions of dollars worth drugs that flow into this country every year. So has drug use sky rocketed among the wealthy? Among the middle class? That was my point? Of course I know America has a drug problem. I was at a restuarant with my gf and Mark McGrath walked up to her asking her if she knew where he could score some "drugs". I know a lot of people that smoke weed and use steroids. But meth? H? What is the demographic these days for those drugs? That was my point.
The middle class you rally so much for are the reason. Try going to a college party any time these days. Coke, pills and other drugs all over the place. You don't see much heroin, but I've seen pretty much everything else.
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They have some place to run...they have cash coming in. The same can't be said for AQI. The leadership can get in and out of the country but equipment and money has dried up. They're moving to Afghanistan, where the can R@R in Pakistan, and they have popular support.
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The only reason Afghanistan is still a fucking problem is because of those cocksuckers in Pakistan. Who in their right mind would negotiate with a bunch of tribal retards and actually expect them to govern themselves? Ever since Pakistan gave autonomy to those douche bags in the northwest, things have gone to shit in Afghanistan. Terrorist camps all over the area, insurgents and terrorists walking around without impunity and having control over the entire area. Not to mention the Pakistani Intelligence and Army turning a blind eye to Taliban actions.
I agree with this statement as well... Why in the hell do we let Pakistan run that show? Obviously they're on the side of the Taliban... Osama is hanging out in the middle of the Pakistan mountains and no one is doing shit in Pakistan to go get him.
Fuck that... Sounds like they're harboring him. Let's go get him and if Pakistan says shit, fuck 'em.
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I agree with this statement as well... Why in the hell do we let Pakistan run that show? Obviously they're on the side of the Taliban... Osama is hanging out in the middle of the Pakistan mountains and no one is doing shit in Pakistan to go get him.
Fuck that... Sounds like they're harboring him. Let's go get him and if Pakistan says shit, fuck 'em.
I wouldn't necessarily say the country is on the side of the Taliban but there is no doubt that their military and intelligence agencies are infiltrated with sympathizers. It's widely believed that the Pakistan Intelligence agency has known Bin Laden's whereabouts for a long time now but they won't be giving him up.
Also, in that fiasco two weeks ago it became pretty clear that there are members of the Pakistani military turning a blind eye to the Taliban and AQ. There was an article saying that a number of increasing attacks are coming from spots right alongside Pakistani military outposts, which implies that these guys are letting the insurgents/terrorists pass through without heed.
Pakistan has no control over their own government, let alone the lawless region in the northwest.
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They can't get in there...pure and simple. The best troops are needed to keep the nutbags in the capital and elswhere at bay..not in the mountains. It might as well be a separate country.
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The middle class you rally so much for are the reason. Try going to a college party any time these days. Coke, pills and other drugs all over the place. You don't see much heroin, but I've seen pretty much everything else.
Well like I said things have changed a lot since 1998 then. Because I partied my ass off at University of Boulder and I was RARELY exposed to that kind of shit. I never saw drugs all over the place. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or tried to avoid it.
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The middle class you rally so much for are the reason. Try going to a college party any time these days. Coke, pills and other drugs all over the place. You don't see much heroin, but I've seen pretty much everything else.
I was walking down the street the other day and 2 dudes were doing lines off the dash of their SUV.
Hell, the July 4th party I was at had a few 8 balls show up before it was done... I'm not a user, but you're right, the shit is everywhere and it's mostly the middle class.
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They can't get in there...pure and simple. The best troops are needed to keep the nutbags in the capital and elswhere at bay..not in the mountains. It might as well be a separate country.
Exactly. Unfortunately, they're still fucking bitching about letting US special forces guys go in there. I bet that if we had enough in there we could probably raise some hell. You know more about it than me though, so I can't really say much.
Well like I said things have changed a lot since 1998 then. Because I partied my ass off at University of Boulder and I was RARELY exposed to that kind of shit. I never saw drugs all over the place. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or tried to avoid it.
I can't think of the last house party I went to that didn't have kids blowing coke in at least one of the bedrooms in that house.
I was walking down the street the other day and 2 dudes were doing lines off the dash of their SUV.
Hell, the July 4th party I was at had a few 8 balls show up before it was done... I'm not a user, but you're right, the shit is everywhere and it's mostly the middle class.
Exactly. It's a shitshow now.
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That was more for the mases...since SOF is going in and out of there alot...there are alot of guys not working for the CIA not going in there to kill folks.
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I was walking down the street the other day and 2 dudes were doing lines off the dash of their SUV.
Hell, the July 4th party I was at had a few 8 balls show up before it was done... I'm not a user, but you're right, the shit is everywhere and it's mostly the middle class.
Where do you live?
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Where do you live?
You going to come for a visit?
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:D
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Haha yeah sorry I've used steroids and tried marijuana but I personally don't know anyone who's a fucking coke and H junkie. Unlike you who seems to know everyone and their brother who uses coke,H and meth??????????????? ::) You missed the point of the post genius. Point being everyone that passes a lie detector test has never used drugs? Everyone in the DEA has never used drugs? Yeah ok.
If you have done anything but experiment with marijuana you will not make it.
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If you have done anything but experiment with marijuana you will not make it.
Well personally that's all I've done except HRT. But I dont' want to be part of a corrupt agency anyways. I said I thought about it.
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Why is the DEA corrupt, because u say it is. Its like all the losers who failed out of bootcamp because "they were too tough" for the Marines.
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Why is the DEA corrupt, because u say it is. Its like all the losers who failed out of bootcamp because "they were too tough" for the Marines.
The CIA is one of the biggest drug traffickers in the world. You're a real genius. There are lots of wealthy, powerful people that benefit from America's drug trade. Ever hear of the Mena drug scandal??????????????????????? I could go on and on with examples of how politicians, CIA, government has been caught with their hand in the drug cookie jar. You know how many covert operations were funded directly or indirectly by CIA drug trafficking or atleast turning a blind eye.
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The CIA is one of the biggest drug traffickers in the world. You're a real genius. There are lots of wealthy, powerful people that benefit from America's drug trade. Ever hear of the Mena drug scandal??????????????????????? I could go on and on with examples of how politicians, CIA, government has been caught with their hand in the drug cookie jar. You know how many covert operations were funded directly or indirectly by CIA drug trafficking or atleast turning a blind eye.
I'd love to see your first hand proof of this beyond a conspiracy theory site. Got any hard documents? ::)
Ron should delete this Hugo Chavez gimmick.
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I'd love to see your first hand proof of this beyond a conspiracy theory site. Got any hard documents? ::)
Ron should delete this Hugo Chavez gimmick.
Haha are you serious? Read anything by author Peter Dale Scott. Ghost Wars and WhiteOut are also other well researched books. Research the MENA drug scandal. Ever hear of the bank BCCI? No you haven't cause you think you're rather intelligent and informed but you are clueless! LOL. What do you think CIA and our military has never trained terrorists either? LOL Ali Mohammad?
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Peter Dale Scott (born 1929) is a Canadian poet and a former English professor at the University of California, Berkeley. The son of noted Canadian poet and constitutional lawyer F. R. Scott, he is known for his anti-war stance and his criticism of U.S. foreign policy dating back to the Vietnam War. He spent five years (1957-1961) with the Canadian diplomatic service. He retired from the UC Berkeley faculty in 1994
Thats answer that question..LEFTIST NUTBAG.
Ghost Wars has nothing to do with the topic....and CT books about the CIA ::)
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Off topic, but Ghost Wars is a great book.
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Peter Dale Scott (born 1929) is a Canadian poet and a former English professor at the University of California, Berkeley. The son of noted Canadian poet and constitutional lawyer F. R. Scott, he is known for his anti-war stance and his criticism of U.S. foreign policy dating back to the Vietnam War. He spent five years (1957-1961) with the Canadian diplomatic service. He retired from the UC Berkeley faculty in 1994
Thats answer that question..LEFTIST NUTBAG.
Ghost Wars has nothing to do with the topic....and CT books about the CIA ::)
Serious question... wasn't the Iran Contra affair related to some CIA underhandedness relating to allowing the Contras to get into the US with their drugs?
http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/03/cia.drugs/
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Off topic, but Ghost Wars is a great book.
Yeah good stuff...but not anything to do with this thread....
Iran contra was selling arms to Iran to generate money so the right wing murerous shitbags in Nicaragua could kill the left wing murderous shitbags with nice shiny guns. I like our right wing murderous shitbags better then the leftists.
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Peter Dale Scott (born 1929) is a Canadian poet and a former English professor at the University of California, Berkeley. The son of noted Canadian poet and constitutional lawyer F. R. Scott, he is known for his anti-war stance and his criticism of U.S. foreign policy dating back to the Vietnam War. He spent five years (1957-1961) with the Canadian diplomatic service. He retired from the UC Berkeley faculty in 1994
Thats answer that question..LEFTIST NUTBAG.
Ghost Wars has nothing to do with the topic....and CT books about the CIA ::)
You're fucking pathetic. Like someone else said you sound like a nazi fascist prick. You're criticism for everything is left wing this, liberal that. Learn how to think for yourself.
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Yeah good stuff...but not anything to do with this thread....
Iran contra was selling arms to Iran to generate money so the right wing murerous shitbags in Nicaragua could kill the left wing murderous shitbags with nice shiny guns. I like our right wing murderous shitbags better then the leftists.
I understand, but drug running was a part of the whole deal.
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You're fucking pathetic. Like someone else said you sound like a nazi fascist prick. You're criticism for everything is left wing this, liberal that. Learn how to think for yourself.
Dogshit is bought and paid for by the right wing portion of the military industrial complex. Dogshit can't think for itself. Hence the most extreme neocon talking points with a healthy sprinkling of the words "socialist" and "liberal" with every post. Pathetic to see someone that can only see one side of an equation on every issue. Methinks dogshit took some shrapnel to the head in one of its multiple tours in Iraq.