Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: chainsaw on July 14, 2008, 12:34:02 PM
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I love em,
but I got this pain in my forearm.
Tendonitis on my right tendon
on the top of my arm.
Hurts when I do curls too.
What do ya clean with, and how often?
Great GH releasor.
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i think if cleans hurt your arms, you're probably not doing them right. catch on the shoulders, not the wrists.
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i think if cleans hurt your arms, you're probably not doing them right. catch on the shoulders, not the wrists.
that's right..catch under your shoulders. wrist flexion tends to be a problem initially until you get the wrists strong enough and flexible enough to catch it.
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I do power cleans every 3 weeks ~ 275# for 5.
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nice weight kimura...
too... make sure y ou stop all movements that irritate the site first..then do alot of light hammercurls and light pressdowns to help heal the area up. trust me it works... then get you a nice pair of wrist wraps for support to help keep it from coming back. Same thing happens to me when i do barbell curls. Wrist wraps did it for me. I get mine at prowriststraps.com..can't make a bad choice with anything from apt
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nice weight kimura...
too... make sure y ou stop all movements that irritate the site first..then do alot of light hammercurls and light pressdowns to help heal the area up. trust me it works... then get you a nice pair of wrist wraps for support to help keep it from coming back. Same thing happens to me when i do barbell curls. Wrist wraps did it for me. I get mine at prowriststraps.com..can't make a bad choice with anything from apt
Good suggestion on the wraps. In addition, I find that if start the movement at knee level (i.e. hang clean), my wrists hurt just like you described.
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I do power cleans every 3 weeks ~ 275# for 5.
that's a nice weight right there for 5.
I just got back into them after a lower back deal. @ 225 1 rep now perfect form mid workout, so I think I will try more next week. Goal is 3 plates.you should be able to handle that. Have you tried yet?
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225x2
Getting there. Would like to snap 3 plates by winter. Great for building teh traps :)
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that's a nice weight right there for 5.
I just got back into them after a lower back deal. @ 225 1 rep now perfect form mid workout, so I think I will try more next week. Goal is 3 plates.you should be able to handle that. Have you tried yet?
I tried 3 plates tonight. I got 3 clean reps and 2 not so clean. It felt much better than I thought it would. I am actually more impressed with my push-presses; 275 for 5. It went up like butter.
It won't be long before I am kicked out of Planet Fitness in Waltham, MA.
;D
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Cleans and Hi-Pulls are excellent for the whole chain of back muscles, from the traps to the small of the back. That would include those muscles running all the way down to the calfs/ankles. Are very effective for the delts, both rear and side. All around mass builder.
Some may have trouble with the wrist flexibility, which in return can cause pain. If you are raising the elbows up high enough (which most BB'ers are prone not to do...check out some video's of Olympic lifters for hints) and allowing the hand/fingers to catch/set the bar on the base of the front delts, a lot of the wrist problems should be reduced. Too close or wide a grip can also cause some problems. The more reps you get in the better the over all flexibility of the wrist/elbows. Practice with the bar only for a while to learn better form. A added suggestions is that the foot placement and even the toe griping has a bearing on a good clean. That's where it all starts from anyway.
When cleaning from the floor I will do the deep squat clean version. Almost like a high raising DL and than getting under it as fast as you can. Prefer rack over floor cleans/Hi-Pulls. Usually hit either one twice a week. Try getting away from lower reps and get to 10 to 12 reps range. See how that may affect muscle building and stamina.
Might also try two hand DB cleans from the floor for a whole new experience. Also the one arm DB Hi-Pull, from a hang position, are excellent for raw power. If anyone is into athletics than consider these two DB versions for position and functional (over used term I know..sorry) strength. Good Luck.
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great functional movement. good for athletes. good foreveryday agility and strength.
for bodybuilding ?? forget about it.
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Can-did: Please state you reason(s) why cleans (or Hi-Pulls) are not a affective BB'ing exercise. Example: doing 3 or 4 sets of 8 to 12 reps a workout. And that would probably be the only back exercise you might need in that workout. My reason: seen it work wonders on dozens of men (and a few women) throughout the years. Good Luck.
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because most effective bodybuilding routines are compromised of workout schedules based on one body part per workout. cleans incorporate alot of muscles. pretty much the entire body ! this would interfere with recovery and growth from your other workouts.
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because most effective bodybuilding routines are compromised of workout schedules based on one body part per workout. cleans incorporate alot of muscles. pretty much the entire body ! this would interfere with recovery and growth from your other workouts.
So? I do cleans on shoulder days....And I squat the day after, and have no ill results except round delts, and thick traps ;)
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Since I started doing CLEANS, my traps/upper back have gotten much thicker. add those on top of heavy dead's or rack pulls and bam, my traps grew. IMHO, shrugs are pointless! Just my two cents
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Since I started doing CLEANS, my traps/upper back have gotten much thicker. add those on top of heavy dead's or rack pulls and bam, my traps grew. IMHO, shrugs are pointless! Just my two cents
For sure man, except, you should incorporate Shrugs right after Deadlifts and Power Clean IMHO
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Since I started doing CLEANS, my traps/upper back have gotten much thicker. add those on top of heavy dead's or rack pulls and bam, my traps grew. IMHO, shrugs are pointless! Just my two cents
Yup, I haven't worked my traps directly in quite a while. They are one of my body parts that I don't have to train often to get to grow. Heavy deads and rack pulls make them grow enough, if I worked them directly they'd explode. I wish my biceps were like that :/
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Yup, I haven't worked my traps directly in quite a while. They are one of my body parts that I don't have to train often to get to grow. Heavy deads and rack pulls make them grow enough, if I worked them directly they'd explode. I wish my biceps were like that :/
you and me both, bud. my traps grow doin' nothin. i almsot never do shrugs, yet my traps never get smaller. deads seem to be enough, with some high pulls tossed in once in a while.
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So? I do cleans on shoulder days....And I squat the day after, and have no ill results except round delts, and thick traps ;)
okay, then explain these stats. were your legs cut off ? Sup fellas,
I am 5'10.
I am currently 195 lbs. 15%.
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okay, then explain these stats. were your legs cut off ?
nothing wrong with those stats at all, the guy never claimed to be an IFBB pro.
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nothing wrong with those stats at all, the guy never claimed to be an IFBB pro.
correct. but your not going to have round delts and thick traps at 195 15% bf at 5'10''.
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correct. but your not going to have round delts and thick traps at 195 15% bf at 5'10''.
why not? mesomorph does.
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For sure man, except, you should incorporate Shrugs right after Deadlifts and Power Clean IMHO
In each to there own I guess ;)
I find regular shrugs boring, as I would rather do hang snatches, high pulls, or DB swings. Now, I will do power shrugs here and there but not as a prime lift
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why not? mesomorph does.
mesomorph is about 7-8 %bf. monstrous difference.
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I like that article Jim Wendler wrote on elitefts sometime back. it was about getting a BIG YOKE. just a lot of deadlifts, o'lifts, then rows and then shrugs. good read
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no, sadly, not every could look like that. in that picture i weigh a tad under 200 at about 13 % bf bro. im about your height too. so basically you are owning yourself there pal... because based on your stats you look worse than me in that photo..and in that photo im a natural 18 year old. :-X
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mesomorph is about 7-8 %bf. monstrous difference.
more like 10-11 percent.
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more like 10-11 percent.
nahhh.... throw some diuretics into meso and he is ready to take the stage at a regional show and place. hes about 8 %.
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Does anyone do heavy upright rows to compliment the power clean? I've found that really helps with that stage of the lift. Deads from the floor also helps to roll your hips to complete the rep.
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It amuses me that bodybuilders are so hung up on body part training. The body works as a unit in any athletic endeavor. Doing four different calf exercises or four different bicep exercises is a waste of time to increase athletic function.
Getting back to the topic at hand power cleans. You shouldn't think of it as a body part exercise but a whole body exercise. What muscle does the power clean develop? It develops the muscles that will increase that explosive sprint. It will increase your vertical leap. It will increase the muscles needed when you take that hand off and explode into the hole just made by the right guard. It will increase the muscles needed to crash into the linebacker for another yard.
I have seen to many athletes sitting in machine after machine doing body part training trying to increase their athletic potential in their sport when they could be gaining so much more with proper training. Most athletes would be way ahead of the game if they just did core gross body movements like the clean, snatch, squat, press, dips and chins. Of course there are others but just doing the listed twice to three times a week would be a great supplement to any football player, wrestler, or sprinters training program.
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It will increase your vertical leap. It will increase the muscles needed when you take that hand off and explode into the hole just made by the right guard.
Exactly, I laid out numerous d-ends, and fat unathletic p.o.s defensive tackles >:( >:(
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It amuses me that bodybuilders are so hung up on body part training. The body works as a unit in any athletic endeavor. Doing four different calf exercises or four different bicep exercises is a waste of time to increase athletic function.
Getting back to the topic at hand power cleans. You shouldn't think of it as a body part exercise but a whole body exercise. What muscle does the power clean develop? It develops the muscles that will increase that explosive sprint. It will increase your vertical leap. It will increase the muscles needed when you take that hand off and explode into the hole just made by the right guard. It will increase the muscles needed to crash into the linebacker for another yard.
I have seen to many athletes sitting in machine after machine doing body part training trying to increase their athletic potential in their sport when they could be gaining so much more with proper training. Most athletes would be way ahead of the game if they just did core gross body movements like the clean, snatch, squat, press, dips and chins. Of course there are others but just doing the listed twice to three times a week would be a great supplement to any football player, wrestler, or sprinters training program.
i agree with you completely.
but
most of us are not athletes
and we do not care about athleticism or functional strength.
my only worrry is ... "make big muscles bigger" :D
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I tried 3 plates tonight. I got 3 clean reps and 2 not so clean. It felt much better than I thought it would. I am actually more impressed with my push-presses; 275 for 5. It went up like butter.
It won't be long before I am kicked out of Planet Fitness in Waltham, MA.
;D
Good stuff. I hear you on Planet Fit having that "discussion" with you about "moving" weight like that around that mofo. Your intimidating the other clients. lol.
Hence the new terms (fitness club, health club, fitness centers..etc) when not too long ago they were simply called "gyms"
All Good. congrats on the press. As for me. Back on the shelf slightly. "Tweaked" my right knee a bit on the bags a couple nights ago boxing. Injuries (even little ones) are a b*tch. I'd be pi$$ed if I did this for a living. LOL.
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Can you ever accept defeat? :-\
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because most effective bodybuilding routines are compromised of workout schedules based on one body part per workout. cleans incorporate alot of muscles. pretty much the entire body ! this would interfere with recovery and growth from your other workouts.
Last I checked deadlifts and squats incorporate a lot of muscles as well. Hell, almost your entire body even. Does that mean you should pull them out and throw in pulldowns and leg extensions instead?
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Last I checked deadlifts and squats incorporate a lot of muscles as well. Hell, almost your entire body even. Does that mean you should pull them out and throw in pulldowns and leg extensions instead?
depends on a couple of factors...
i like rack deadlifts and hack squats... but i never ever do regular deads or regular squats...
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Can-did should write a complete book about his training knowledge, workouts and experience. Problem is, all the pages will be blank. Good Luck.
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Can-did should write a complete book about his training knowledge, workouts and experience. Problem is, all the pages will be blank. Good Luck.
Co-Author
Google.com
::) ::) ::)
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depends on a couple of factors...
i like rack deadlifts and hack squats... but i never ever do regular deads or regular squats...
i thought you always did smith deadlifts. and besides, wouldn't rack deads put MORE stress on all the same muscles as a regular pull?
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i thought you always did smith deadlifts. and besides, wouldn't rack deads put MORE stress on all the same muscles as a regular pull?
You are right Magoo,
I remember him saying he pulled on the smith machine.
Brutal Hypocrisy. He's got caught out a few times I've seen. >:( >:(
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rack deads and smith deads are very similar, the way i do them. i cant speak for you guys.
jpm i love you too baby
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rack deads and smith deads are very similar, the way i do them. i cant speak for you guys.
jpm i love you too baby
they're so similar you forgot which one you did??
also you totally blew off the fact that rack deads use all the same muscles ae regular deads, just with more weight.
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thats cool bro. you know what, your 100% correct bro. :)
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rack deads and smith deads are very similar, the way i do them. i cant speak for you guys.
jpm i love you too baby
How in the name of Christ do you pull on a smith machine? Are you using limited ranges? I would think there would be a tendency to pull the whole rack back- against the fixed plane of motion.
Please post a video - I really want to see this movement.
-Kim
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heres a link to a video where dexter jackson does smith deads. you have to sit through about 3 minutes of dexter bullshitting with dave palumbo before you see him do them.
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1086/204/
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heres a link to a video where dexter jackson does smith deads. you have to sit through about 3 minutes of dexter bullshitting with dave palumbo before you see him do them.
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1086/204/
Interesting - thanks for the link.
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great functional movement. good for athletes. good foreveryday agility and strength.
for bodybuilding ?? forget about it.
Please tell me this post is a joke
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depends on a couple of factors...
i like rack deadlifts and hack squats... but i never ever do regular deads or regular squats...
And therefore that makes them useless for bodybuilding? A larger ego does not exist anywhere on this planet.
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there's a great clip on youtube of Justin Harris and Steve Kuclo doing reps on clean and presses with something like 225, i'll see if i can find it.
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And therefore that makes them useless for bodybuilding? A larger ego does not exist anywhere on this planet.
yup thats me, huge ego, :D
i wouldnt say they are USELESS... certainly not without use.. but i would say that i doubt you will ever fin a professional body builder who consistantly has them as part of his routine. and i doubt that any bodybuilding trainer ( example = charles gllass) would ever have any of his bodybuilding clients EVER perform cleans.
awesome athletic movement, to be sure. football players and the like, IMO benefit greatly from such exercises.
bodybuilders...... nnnaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h
but YO
you do your thing, i do mine; see you a the finish line :D ;) ;D
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i do agree with candy that it is extremely unusual to see pro bodybuilders preforming this movement.
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Dizzle,you know two things about training..........jack and shit!!
Power cleans aren`t used as much by bodybuilders these days but they can and will put some serious slabs of muscle on your traps,back,lats,erectors as well as forearms and hams.
Old school movement used by tons of guys back in the day to build muscle as well as overall power.
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hahha
wes stop trippin
by the looks of your avy you never even stepped foot in a weightroom you old fool
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hahha
wes stop trippin
by the looks of your avy you never even stepped foot in a weightroom you old fool
says you.... the "bodybuilder" ::)
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says you.... the "bodybuilder" ::)
bennnzzzzzzoooooooo
hahhaa
bro
you are 5 foot 6 one hundred and 45 pounds, at 18 % bf !!! :D
haha
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Wes looks pretty damn muscular and shredded to me, i don't know what picture you're looking at Candy.
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bennnzzzzzzoooooooo
hahhaa
bro
you are 5 foot 6 one hundred and 45 pounds, at 18 % bf !!! :D
haha
says you "the bodybuilder" ::)
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Wes looks pretty damn muscular and shredded to me, i don't know what picture you're looking at Candy.
save it and zoom in. lean? yes. muscular ? hes a toothpick.
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save it and zoom in. lean? yes. muscular ? hes a toothpick.
says you "the bodybuilder" ::)
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save it and zoom in. lean? yes. muscular ? hes a toothpick.
compared to who? Wes has never claimed to be IFBB pro material or a super huge guy by any means, the man does pack some serious size and cuts on that body especially for being in his 50's, the dude looks damn good.
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says you "the bodybuilder" ::)
says benzzzzzzzzoo
the stupid mexican who smells bad and is 145 lbs at 5'6'' at astonishing 18 % bf :D
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says benzzzzzzzzoo
the stupid mexican who smells bad and is 145 lbs at 5'6'' at astonishing 18 % bf :D
says you "the bodybuilder" ::)
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compared to who? Wes has never claimed to be IFBB pro material or a super huge guy by any means, the man does pack some serious size and cuts on that body especially for being in his 50's, the dude looks damn good.
compared to his ego... ;)
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hahha
wes stop trippin
by the looks of your avy you never even stepped foot in a weightroom you old fool
wes puts you to shame both in physique and strength of character, son. end of story.
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wes puts you to shame both in physique and strength of character, son. end of story.
maggo im drownding a lake of my tears :'( dont be mean to me :-[
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maggo im drownding a lake of my tears :'( dont be mean to me :-[
do you understand, like really understand, why your posts used to get bombarded with that picture of you fat and the one of you in a sweater? it's not because you were fat or skinny, but because you are easily amongst the most rockheaded and irritating posters on the site. even when you're caught dead to rights, proven 100% wrong, you act like a little cockbag about it.
admit it. you dedicated a thread practically to arguing with me and others that smith deadlifts were great because you use them, now you're claiming to rely on rack pulls. not to mention you're making the assertion that rack pulls don't use just as many muscles as regular deads, and you're completely wrong.
just act like an adult for once, bud. it'll go a long way.
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magoo your a fountain of wisdom, and a completet encyclopedia of training knowledge. you own me in every way imagineable. you own EVERYONE in fact, bud.
i can only one day wish t know as much as you, loook as good as you, be HALF the man you are.
truly a god among men, you are, magoo.
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::)
see what i mean? Pure childish temper tantrum. Just act like a man for once, quit lashing out like a baby. Guaranteed within 6, maybe 8 months you'd get twice the respect you do now.
lord help you if you act like this off the boards, too.
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magoo, sweetheart, i aint mad at cha. i love your tight litle sweet asshole, baby. :-*
why you hatin..?
dont hate the playa', hate THE GAME, hate the game... 8)
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Back on topic or I lock the thread guys. You were having a good discussion so let's see it continue. 8)
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Back on topic or I lock the thread guys. You were having a good discussion so let's see it continue. 8)
Settle down "Moderator" ::)
;D
Are you still using power cleans in your workouts?
Do you use them for strength or as a bbing exercise?
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Settle down "Moderator" ::)
;D
Are you still using power cleans in your workouts?
Do you use them for strength or as a bbing exercise?
I figure not encouraging them would be a good idea lol.
I am back to heavy weights (for me, lol) and cleans are always in the rotation. Heavy cleans and one arm snatches are in the rotation. I am doing them for strength but they are doing wonders for size. As JPM, Wes and Coach have said...they do wonders for body size. Upper body is thick as ever and they hit the biceps too so I don't do any curls. I focus on strength right now but I run 25 miles a week and have lost no size or weight so I'm good. Snatches are a great exercise too.
Still big as hell? ;D
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I figure not encouraging them would be a good idea lol.
I am back to heavy weights (for me, lol) and cleans are always in the rotation. Heavy cleans and one arm snatches are in the rotation. I am doing them for strength but they are doing wonders for size. As JPM, Wes and Coach have said...they do wonders for body size. Upper body is thick as ever and they hit the biceps too so I don't do any curls. I focus on strength right now but I run 25 miles a week and have lost no size or weight so I'm good. Snatches are a great exercise too.
Still big as hell? ;D
Damn that's alot of running bro.. :o
Weighed in at 274 on Friday......... :-X
Never really tried power cleans, may have to give them a shot in 3 weeks.
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Damn that's alot of running bro.. :o
Weighed in at 274 on Friday......... :-X
Never really tried power cleans, may have to give them a shot in 3 weeks.
height, bf % ?
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Damn that's alot of running bro.. :o
Weighed in at 274 on Friday......... :-X
Never really tried power cleans, may have to give them a shot in 3 weeks.
Yeah, I have to do it but I've learned to love it.
Yeah, hang cleans, full cleans, rack cleans, box cleans, etc are all fucking awesome. Oliva, Schwarzenegger, and Coleman all loved these and used them as a foundation for mass so they are def BBing applicable. The only thing BBers might worry about is thicker hips throwing off their balance but IMO that can be corrected. I look at all the athletes I train with and they could step onstage before any of the "BBers" I see in the gym. Some don't like them, some think they are worthless but they do work.
Trust me Candi, I've trained with chaos...he is a big dude and strong too.
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height, bf % ?
I'm 6'2" and yes I have BF.......make no mistake, I'm not a primadonna bottom boy that is concerned with showing off in a g-string. ;)
When you coming down again cap? Two weeks we are going to test maxes, then third week we are going to switch programs, try something new.
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I'm 6'2" and yes I have BF.......make no mistake, I'm not a primadonna bottom boy that is concerned with showing off in a g-string. ;)
When you coming down again cap? Two weeks we are going to test maxes, then third week we are going to switch programs, try something new.
Soon, as I decided to take that trip we talked about. It's always good to lift with a big mofo like you, just like lifting with the D Ends. ;)
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the reason they dont work for bodybuilding is because they incorporate too many muscles ! like you said, you dont even train biceps because cleans hit them. do you honestly think your biceps are growing better off of indirect work from cleans, than they would if you gave them their own full workout with direct exercises ?
heck no they arent !
but if you DO do direct exercises for a muscle, you cannot just go and hit it indirectly two days later and expect to work out that same muscle directly again the next time it pops up in your schedule.
what do cleans hit, pretty much everything ! but i could see them , being done properly, hitting almost entirely upper body. so i guess, if your a bodybuilder training something like
upper
lower
off
upper
lower
offf
ect ect
then cleans would work just fine, fantastically even.... since heavy compound movements are great for hormonal stimulation and metabolic rate.
:)
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the reason they dont work for bodybuilding is because they incorporate too many muscles ! like you said, you dont even train biceps because cleans hit them. do you honestly think your biceps are growing better off of indirect work from cleans, than they would if you gave them their own full workout with direct exercises ?
heck no they arent !
but if you DO do direct exercises for a muscle, you cannot just go and hit it indirectly two days later and expect to work out that same muscle directly again the next time it pops up in your schedule.
what do cleans hit, pretty much everything ! but i could see them , being done properly, hitting almost entirely upper body. so i guess, if your a bodybuilder training something like
upper
lower
off
upper
lower
offf
ect ect
then cleans would work just fine, fantastically even.... since heavy compound movements are great for hormonal stimulation and metabolic rate.
:)
Some people would tell you their arms grew most once they stopped training them directly. ;)
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the reason they dont work for bodybuilding is because they incorporate too many muscles ! like you said, you dont even train biceps because cleans hit them. do you honestly think your biceps are growing better off of indirect work from cleans, than they would if you gave them their own full workout with direct exercises ?
heck no they arent !
but if you DO do direct exercises for a muscle, you cannot just go and hit it indirectly two days later and expect to work out that same muscle directly again the next time it pops up in your schedule.
what do cleans hit, pretty much everything ! but i could see them , being done properly, hitting almost entirely upper body. so i guess, if your a bodybuilder training something like
upper
lower
off
upper
lower
offf
ect ect
then cleans would work just fine, fantastically even.... since heavy compound movements are great for hormonal stimulation and metabolic rate.
:)
I know athletes who do direct arm work as an after thought (one or two do it 2-3x a week; 6 sets) but the strongest lifters I personally know, track throwers, never do them and their arms are huge. My schedule could include them and maybe they would grow a bit more but they could also keep growing with heavy cleans and weighted chins, which I find have helped more than BB curls ever did. The last guy I saw at a normal gym with HUGE arms (I studied his workout because he was huge) did almost all of his bicep sets with 3 plates attached to him and doing chins (reverse grip); easily 20 inch arms. Do what works for you, it really is as simple as that.
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the reason they dont work for bodybuilding is because they incorporate too many muscles ! like you said, you dont even train biceps because cleans hit them. do you honestly think your biceps are growing better off of indirect work from cleans, than they would if you gave them their own full workout with direct exercises ?
heck no they arent !
but if you DO do direct exercises for a muscle, you cannot just go and hit it indirectly two days later and expect to work out that same muscle directly again the next time it pops up in your schedule.
what do cleans hit, pretty much everything ! but i could see them , being done properly, hitting almost entirely upper body. so i guess, if your a bodybuilder training something like
upper
lower
off
upper
lower
offf
ect ect
then cleans would work just fine, fantastically even.... since heavy compound movements are great for hormonal stimulation and metabolic rate.
:)
Would you care to demonstrate a workout split that completely separates muscle overlap within a 48-hour time period? I'm not buying that it's legitimately possible unless you do either an upper/lower 2x week or full-body 3x week split.
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Thanks for the support guys!! :)
Dizzle,I never said I was huge,I said power cleans build muscle.
When you win 65 trophies in powerlifting and bodybuilding,it entails going to the gym once in a while.
You parrot info like an avid reader of Flex magazine bud.............keep it up we love it. ;D
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Love power cleans, my form was terrible a year ago. Just got it down correctly, and the weight is moving up. :D
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Would you care to demonstrate a workout split that completely separates muscle overlap within a 48-hour time period? I'm not buying that it's legitimately possible unless you do either an upper/lower 2x week or full-body 3x week split.
bingo. if you do chest and shoulders on different days, you're hitting the same muscles. back and legs? there's a lot of hip/hamstring work there. do arms have their own day? now you're overlapping biceps and triceps. lord help you if chest, shoulders, and arms all have their own days. now your triceps are getting worked three times a week!
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your not working out correctly if your gettng significant involvement from secondary muscles. sure, front delts and tris play a small role in bench press, regardless of how good your mind+muscle is... but honestly... if you know how to work out properly you will not be using them any more than just small amounts of stabilizing support. no significant invoolvement.
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your not working out correctly if your gettng significant involvement from secondary muscles. sure, front delts and tris play a small role in bench press, regardless of how good your mind+muscle is... but honestly... if you know how to work out properly you will not be using them any more than just small amounts of stabilizing support. no significant invoolvement.
Then by that logic, since the primary movers in a power clean are the delts and traps, if you know how to do them correctly, there should be "no significant involvement" from the biceps, forearms, and lower back.
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your not working out correctly if your gettng significant involvement from secondary muscles. sure, front delts and tris play a small role in bench press, regardless of how good your mind+muscle is... but honestly... if you know how to work out properly you will not be using them any more than just small amounts of stabilizing support. no significant invoolvement.
Front delts and tris play a small role?
Oh brother. ::)
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your not working out correctly if your gettng significant involvement from secondary muscles. sure, front delts and tris play a small role in bench press, regardless of how good your mind+muscle is... but honestly... if you know how to work out properly you will not be using them any more than just small amounts of stabilizing support. no significant invoolvement.
did you just claim front delts and tris play a small role in the bench? jeezus...
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did you just claim front delts and tris play a small role in the bench? jeezus...
It's all about the mind-muscle connection. With enough effort you can do a 4,000-lb deadlift using just your rhomboids. Everything else will have no significant involvement.
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did you just claim front delts and tris play a small role in the bench? jeezus...
if done properly you can make their involvement be insignificant.
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if done properly you can make their involvement be insignificant.
::)
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::)
i guess you have very little mind to muscle connection chaos
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if done properly you can make their involvement be insignificant.
And exactly how might that be done? Thousands of professional trainers, powerlifters, bodybuilders, and strength athletes with world-class chest development are enquiring.
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i guess you have very little mind to muscle connection chaos
I guess you could have found out if you actually showed up. ::)
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if done properly you can make their involvement be insignificant.
you will never, ever find a single reliable lifting coach or bodybuilder that will agree with this. if you want to talk pro BB'ers, levrone once said his triceps were standout because he did full range benches.
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i guess i must just be one of the few individuals blessed with enhanced mind+muscle connection then... because my tri's nor front delts never get any real kind of stimulation from chest work....sure they help a little bit, of course...but nothing that is significant at all..
i guess yoru guys biceps get all jacked and pumped during your back day as well?
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i guess i must just be one of the few individuals blessed with enhanced mind+muscle connection then... because my tri's nor front delts never get any real kind of stimulation from chest work....sure they help a little bit, of course...but nothing that is significant at all..
i guess yoru guys biceps get all jacked and pumped during your back day as well?
(http://th173.photobucket.com/albums/w54/callmeBBM/th_small_9222104455501103411.gif)
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lol
ummmmm
epic jealousy?
sometimes i doubt if you guys ever even train
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i guess i must just be one of the few individuals blessed with enhanced mind+muscle connection then... because my tri's nor front delts never get any real kind of stimulation from chest work....sure they help a little bit, of course...but nothing that is significant at all..
i guess yoru guys biceps get all jacked and pumped during your back day as well?
uh... yeah. as do my glutes and hamstrings from squats and my forearms from doing shrugs. this might explain why everyone arguing with you is both bigger, stronger, and drug-free.
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uh... yeah. as do my glutes and hamstrings from squats and my forearms from doing shrugs. this might explain why everyone arguing with you is both bigger, stronger, and drug-free.
Dizzle smashes my physique, but in essence I am bigger than him, and not on any drugs ;D ;D
Must be the power cleans :-X :-X
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you assume your bigger and stronger.
but thats besides the point
the point is that cleans are not a bodybuilding movement
and they arent because they incorporate too many muscles, and dont allow you to isolate any one in particular
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you assume your bigger and stronger.
but thats besides the point
the point is that cleans are not a bodybuilding movement
and they arent because they incorporate too many muscles, and dont allow you to isolate any one in particular
I'm going to keep doing them regardless, ;)
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and they arent because they incorporate too many muscles, and dont allow you to isolate any one in particular
"incorporate too many muscles" to be a bodybuilding movement?
LOL, every compound exercise incoporates "too many muscles", you may want to stick to machine movements then.
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"and dont allow you to isolate anyone in particular" ;)
capatin, do your thing buddy.
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"and dont allow you to isolate anyone in particular" ;)
capatin, do your thing buddy.
So leg extensions are superior to squats, stiff-arm pulldowns beter than rows, flyes over presses, kickbacks over close-grip bench and dips... You make no sense. It's called "bodybuilding," not "individual-muscle-building."
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So leg extensions are superior to squats, stiff-arm pulldowns beter than rows, flyes over presses, kickbacks over close-grip bench and dips... You make no sense. It's called "bodybuilding," not "individual-muscle-building."
>:( You're not questioning the all knowing candidildo are you?
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So leg extensions are superior to squats, stiff-arm pulldowns beter than rows, flyes over presses, kickbacks over close-grip bench and dips... You make no sense. It's called "bodybuilding," not "individual-muscle-building."
if you want my honest opinion, i dont think any moevement is inferior or superior to any other movement. a muscle contraction is a muscle contraction.... to an extent.
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if you want my honest opinion, i dont think any moevement is inferior or superior to any other movement. a muscle contraction is a muscle contraction.... to an extent.
As long as you don't contract too many muscles at once.
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lol... do whatever you want to do chaos, im not telling you "do this, do that"..only contributing my opinion...
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lol... do whatever you want to do chaos, im not telling you "do this, do that"..only contributing my opinion...
your opinion is a combination of ignorant and incoherent, supported by the fact that we have no reason to think you really know what you're talking about. fact is that cleans are a good addition for any training protocol, if not great for a "main lift". you can make a few arguments against it, but saying that you can isolate muscles on compound movements is 100% incorrect, and you can take a goddamn EMG test if you don't believe it.
kick off the drugs, train clean for a few years, see how far you come. then we'll know how much you actually know what you're talking about.
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lol... magoo your hilarious.. :D
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Interesting read. I was looking for another article but this should end this debate, it probably won't, but it SHOULD
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_3_23/ai_n13653803
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no one's arguing that exercises can be made to change the mechanics of it so a given muscle takes the brunt of the work, but to act like you can eliminate your shoulders and triceps from the bench press or your biceps from chins is just dumb. :-\
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no one's arguing that exercises can be made to change the mechanics of it so a given muscle takes the brunt of the work, but to act like you can eliminate your shoulders and triceps from the bench press or your biceps from chins is just dumb. :-\
acting like i said "eliminate", when i said numerous times that the muscles woul still be involved but that there involvement would be insignificant...well thats just DUMB :-\
:D
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well thats just DUMB :-\
:D
If anyone would know "dumb" it would be you. ;)
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If anyone would know "dumb" it would be you. ;)
judging by your age +screenname +avatar +online persona combonation..id have to say your quite the genius yourself, chaos ! :D
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acting like i said "eliminate", when i said numerous times that the muscles woul still be involved but that there involvement would be insignificant...well thats just DUMB :-\
:D
insignificant involvements = de facto elimination, dopey. you're still completely wrong. ::)
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insignificant involvements = de facto elimination, dopey. you're still completely wrong. ::)
ahhh, the irony... ;D
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ahhh, the irony... ;D
do you even know what irony MEANS, dude?
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do you even know what irony MEANS, dude?
uuuuhhhh isnt that like,,, rain on your wedding day, or a no smoking sign on your ciggaretee break??? :-X
hahhaa
in your case, im using it to laugh at you saying something stupid, then calling me stupid afterwards. its different than whats expected. or is it?? lol.. stupid people never know they are stupid. so i guess it is to be expected. so i guessyour RIGHT, i used ironic improperly ! :D ( of course, there is an exception to every rule...and i am that exception...because I = stupid person that knows he is stupid ! :D )
hahah
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judging by your age +screenname +avatar +online persona combonation..id have to say your quite the genius yourself, chaos ! :D
If you didn't puss out, you would know. :)
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the amount of stupid in this thread is so overwhelming i'm honestly wondering why i continue to try and penetrate the thick block of concrete that is candidizzle's skull.
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I made this post in another thread he was running his trap in........just in case you missed it candidildo......
You're 19........you've gone from fat to thin (with the help of cocaine), now you're juicing........how much time could you have invested in seeing what works or doesn't work for your body? How many times could you have bulked up and leaned out to contest condition? Never, that's how many.
Most bbers try for years before they can figure out what works, yet you seem to know what works for everyone, with a big one year of experience.
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the amount of stupid in this thread is so overwhelming i'm honestly wondering why i continue to try and penetrate the thick block of concrete that is candidizzle's skull.
one day , if you ever learn how to train like a bodybuilder, you will come back to my posts and think to yoruself.. "holy fuck, dizzle really does know how to train. i guess spending everyday of your youth in a gym kinda does make it like second nature for you. i wish i would have been less arrogant and actually considered what hhe was saying. i would have been much better off as far as my physique goes. i wouldnt of even of have to told dizzle that i tried his stuff out. "
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one day , if you ever learn how to train like a bodybuilder, you will come back to my posts and think to yoruself.. "holy fuck, dizzle really does know how to train. i guess spending everyday of your youth in a gym kinda does make it like second nature for you. i wish i would have been less arrogant and actually considered what hhe was saying. i would have been much better off as far as my physique goes. i wouldnt of even of have to told dizzle that i tried his stuff out. "
"every day of your youth"? dude, your youth is NOW. you've got, what, two years experience? tops? and you're already on steroids? quit talking like you have a decade of hard experience and a track record of accomplishments.
i've gained roughly 80 pounds since i started lifting five years ago (going from my current weight, in march of 2007 i could have said i gained 130 pounds :P ), and i lost 50 pounds of fat in 2007. the funny part is i didn't use drugs for either of those transitions and i'm still improving without 'em. my videos exist, so you can verify that i bench over my bodyweight for nearly 25 reps, and pulled 515 weighing 218. amazing? no. respectable? i think so.
you got lean and put on some muscle, but nothing remotely stellar. and to top it off before you even hit a size anyone would call "a solid base", you started gear. and now you're acting like you've got this resume that guys like me should envy? that might be the most arrogant thing of all. ::)
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it will be 5 years this august :-*
drug free i lost 100 lbs of fat and put on 50 lbs of muscle :-*
:o
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it will be 5 years this august :-*
drug free i lost 100 lbs of fat and put on 50 lbs of muscle :-*
:o
So when you were a big fat slob on the motorcycle you were working out?
When did you find time to get all coked up?
Are you saying your coke habit had nothing to do with your weight loss?
Of the 50 lbs you've put back on, how much of it is attributed to steroids?
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i did that drug free. i only lost muscle on coke. and that incident was FATER i had lost all the fat. i built 50 lbs of muscle without drugs. while losing 100 lbs of fat.
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i did that drug free. i only lost muscle on coke. and that incident was FATER i had lost all the fat. i built 50 lbs of muscle without drugs. while losing 100 lbs of fat.
Does this make sense to you?
You're 19 right? So you've been working out since you were 14? That means you've lost 100lbs of "fat" and gained 50 lbs of "muscle" since you were 14, drug free for all occasion? And you believe that you coke habit only cost you more muscle mass?
How much muscle do you think you could have put on if not for the coke?
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point is, candypants, if you're legit then we've been lifting for the same time frame, both drug free. you had a coke problem that sent you into rehab, i had a drinking problem that kept me out of the gym for months, stripped me of half my size, and put me in the hospital. so we're talking the same time frame, each abbreviated by a substance abuse issue.
now the question becomes what is it about where you got prior to steroids that justifies your claim that i would be best served by bowing to your supremacy. your pre-drug pictures show, honestly, nothing beyond "pretty good". some bicep size, that's about it. i've never claimed anything beyond "okay" myself, and both my lifting videos and pictures prove i'm no bullshitter about any numbers.
so take a moment and re-evaluate this adorable little rivalry you've formed with me.
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In a pseudo-attempt to swing back on topic, I am curious how someone who does high pulls in his workout (wide-grip upright rows) can say cleans are worthless for bodybuilding, since a power clean is essentially the same thing with a catch at the top. There may be a little difference in muscle recruitment, but "not significant."
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In a pseudo-attempt to swing back on topic, I am curious how someone who does high pulls in his workout (wide-grip upright rows) can say cleans are worthless for bodybuilding, since a power clean is essentially the same thing with a catch at the top. There may be a little difference in muscle recruitment, but "not significant."
upright rows are all shoulders. some guys do it wrong and hit the traps too. but upright row is basically isolation of the delts.
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upright rows are all shoulders. some guys do it wrong and hit the traps too. but upright row is basically isolation of the delts.
A traditional upright row with a 6-8 inch hand spacing, bringing the bar up past the chest, has to hit the traps. The traps are responsible for elevating the elbow past the shoulder. No ifs ands or buts about it. Even a wide grip, unless your form is beyond textbook, will hit the middle and lower traps as you'll have a tendency to bring the scapula together.
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according to you i am a genetic mutant because my traps dont get any work fro upright rows.
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according to you i am a genetic mutant because my traps dont get any work fro upright rows.
No, according to any basic kineseology textbook that has ever been written, you are wrong. Prove to me that the trapezius is not responsible for elevating the elbow beyond the level of the shoulder. Hint - just because you don't feel it as much as the primary muscle group doesn't mean it's not working. I highly doubt that your abs get sore from doing upright rows but they're working too.
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i guess my finger muscles get a workout from hack squats too. im sure they are "contracting" during the movement. ::)
do it correctly you wont have your traps be involved.
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i guess my finger muscles get a workout from hack squats too. im sure they are "contracting" during the movement. ::)
do it correctly you wont have your traps be involved.
this is basic kinesiology, as Zach said. you are 100%, irrefutably wrong. the trapezius WILL contract. period. they might not be the prime mover, but they DO contract.
by the way, where's that video of your 185 pound perfect-form upright row? or are you still worried that you're "too big" and people will make comments about it? ::)
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this is basic kinesiology, as Zach said. you are 100%, irrefutably wrong. the trapezius WILL contract. period. they might not be the prime mover, but they DO contract.
by the way, where's that video of your 185 pound perfect-form upright row? or are you still worried that you're "too big" and people will make comments about it? ::)
im worried you might masterbate to it, fagggg :o
maybe you should train with somebody who ha good shoulders and ask them to show you how to properly do upright rows. your traps wont get exhausted to any measurable degree. totally insignificant when done properly.
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LOL, candidildo gets butchered and he still doesn't "get it"........oh, well. ;D
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its funny ...you guys are getting so angry..everything i say on this trainingboard is what you would hear from any bodybuilder or trainer of bodybuilders...any top pro or any top trainer...
i never posted on this board because i have always had training down pat... its simple..i thought there was no confusion amongst people here how to train..
then i come to this board and see the advice being given..the shit being spouted....lol oh man...
you guys dont know shit :D
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its funny ...you guys are getting so angry..everything i say on this trainingboard is what you would hear from any bodybuilder or trainer of bodybuilders...any top pro or any top trainer...
i never posted on this board because i have always had training down pat... its simple..i thought there was no confusion amongst people here how to train..
then i come to this board and see the advice being given..the shit being spouted....lol oh man...
you guys dont know shit :D
Isn't it ironic..........don't you think? :-\
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im worried you might masterbate to it, fagggg :o
maybe you should train with somebody who ha good shoulders and ask them to show you how to properly do upright rows. your traps wont get exhausted to any measurable degree. totally insignificant when done properly.
funny thing is, 99% of the people i know with great shoulders say the key is "presses, presses, presses", and the only one who does upright rows regularly does it when he doesn't really feel like doing shrugs. hm.
Isn't it ironic..........don't you think? :-\
sad, pitiful, yes. all that good stuff.
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i wouldnt expect any more from magoo...lol...... but chaos you train at the k,,, along with pro bodybuilders and th most knowledgeable milos sarcev... you have to know this stuff...
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i wouldnt expect any more from magoo...lol...... but chaos you train at the k,,, along with pro bodybuilders and th most knowledgeable milos sarcev... you have to know this stuff...
::)
candi, you're scraping pathetically at this point. you're reaching. it's sad. back off and admit you're wrong. you're in a grave and digging deeper. remember that 90% of this argument is not what you're saying (though you ARE wrong), it's that when proven wrong you start saying "fagggg" and acting like a five year old.
deal with it. you said something dumb. man up, move on.
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i wouldnt expect any more from magoo...lol...... but chaos you train at the k,,, along with pro bodybuilders and th most knowledgeable milos sarcev... you have to know this stuff...
Your own statement should tell you something.
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lol. dude. there really isnt even an argument here in this thread. its going from subject to subject ... just like everythread where i contribute and you and your "crew" come in and get mad because the training board is supposed to yoru turf...lol...
like i said before
what i post in this forum is what youll hear from every top bodybuilder and every top bodybuilding caoch
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the thread didn't change.
when asked about cleans, you claimed they're bad because they use too many muscles. when confronted with the fact that a heavy upright row is basically a clean without catching it on the shoulders, you made the bizarre assertion that you're upright rowing 185 strictly without using your traps (or "effectively removing" them, whatever), which is a physical impossibility. then, you started calling me a fag and throwing out various personal attacks.
no change, just the fact that your arguments make no sense and you constantly contradict yourself. such as the addition of you saying that you isolate muscles, but you like rack pulls. no wait, smith pulls, because you make smith pulls the same as rack pulls. except that ALSO uses most of the muscles of the body, which again flies in the face of what you said before.
chaos and i have had a cohesive and consistent standpoint, you've been flopping around like a fish in the sand and having a temper tantrum. accept it, move on. and i'm done with this thread.
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if thats what you get out of this thread, then youve got to get a more third person view point dude.
you probably dont thnk your feces smells at all, do you?? yeah, your that type of guy; i know it.
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if thats what you get out of this thread, then youve got to get a more third person view point dude.
you probably dont thnk your feces smells at all, do you?? yeah, your that type of guy; i know it.
LOL........you just don't get it. You'll always be small and weak. :)
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its funny ...you guys are getting so angry..everything i say on this trainingboard is what you would hear from any bodybuilder or trainer of bodybuilders...any top pro or any top trainer...
i never posted on this board because i have always had training down pat... its simple..i thought there was no confusion amongst people here how to train..
then i come to this board and see the advice being given..the shit being spouted....lol oh man...
you guys dont know shit :D
Interesting that all of these people seem to disagree with you:
http://www.acefitness.org/getfit/exercise_display.aspx?itemid=416
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=upright+barbell+row
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/exercises/upright-row.html
http://www.coopersguns.com/videos/exercise-encyclopedia/traps/cable-upright-row/
http://www.flexonline.com/training/86
http://www.flexonline.com/training/93
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Do not know if Can-did is incredibly stupid or incredibly cleaver, with all his positives negatives he gives back on this and other boards. I do know that he seems to be playing most of you either way. Why experienced weight men would even take the time to reply, over and over again, and try to make sense of what he say's(at times) would be the question I have. If Can-did knows it or not, he is the prime player on this board. Most social cultures around the world shun away from stupid or illogical people, but not GetBig members. And so we now have another endless thread started. Good luck.
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hahaha, "experienced weight men". ;D
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Do not know if Can-did is incredibly stupid or incredibly cleaver, with all his positives negatives he gives back on this and other boards. I do know that he seems to be playing most of you either way. Why experienced weight men would even take the time to reply, over and over again, and try to make sense of what he say's(at times) would be the question I have. If Can-did knows it or not, he is the prime player on this board. Most social cultures around the world shun away from stupid or illogical people, but not GetBig members. And so we now have another endless thread started. Good luck.
Good point. Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics - even if you win, you're still a retard.
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BINGO and Finally, what I wanted to say! ;) Well said man
Do not know if Can-did is incredibly stupid or incredibly cleaver, with all his positives negatives he gives back on this and other boards. I do know that he seems to be playing most of you either way. Why experienced weight men would even take the time to reply, over and over again, and try to make sense of what he say's(at times) would be the question I have. If Can-did knows it or not, he is the prime player on this board. Most social cultures around the world shun away from stupid or illogical people, but not GetBig members. And so we now have another endless thread started. Good luck.
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yes, i can find hundereds of links that say that triceps are involved in presses and that biceps are involved in back movements too. that doesnt mean you let them play a significant role however.
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Like I said earlier in this clusterfuck of a thread.......JACK + SHIT !!
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BINGO and Finally, what I wanted to say! ;) Well said man
Well thanks for speaking up Sparky!!! :D
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BENEFITS
Using Olympic exercises in your bodybuilding training creates tremendous physique development. Here are just a few of the advantages derived from Olympic lifts. Coordination, balance, concentration, flexibility, speed development, and most importantly, for bodybuilders, great upper body thickness! That's right amigo's, I said "thick". If you want a thick upper back, and wide shoulders that will envy even Ronnie Coleman, then these exercises should be added into your bodybuilding regimen.
The four lifts described below are Olympic auxiliary lifts. These lifts usually start slowly and finish fast and dynamically. These lifts should be performed under control. So keep the bar off your thighs with no wild, jerking, or bouncing motions.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/schultz26.htm
If you want to isolate your biceps, fine, but this move will thicken almost every muscle in your upper body.
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i had the same thing, its just some tendinitous in your forearm. Take a week or two off or fight through the pain is the only options.