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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: tu_holmes on July 16, 2008, 11:01:03 AM
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Jimmy Carter was right?
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/16/jimmy-carter-was-right/
Jimmy Carter Was Right
By David Knowles
Jul 16th 2008 9:01AM
Filed Under:ePresident Bush, Democrats, Featured Stories, Energy
I realize that bashing Jimmy Carter is something of a favorite sport for many people in our country. But when it comes to energy conservation and the dismal situation we now find ourselves in regarding foreign oil dependence, and a withering auto industry, Carter's diagnosis and solutions would have largely spared us the pain we're all now feeling.
Last night, NPR's "Marketplace" ran a few excerpts of Carter's famous "Crisis of Confidence" speech (watch the entire speech here) , and it was striking to realize that if we'd simply followed the former president's 1979 energy blueprint, we'd not be in our current mess. Among the goals Carter laid out that night were:
--Never use more foreign oil than that which we ourselves produce.
--Start massive government investment to develop alternative sources of fuel.
--Mandate that utility companies cut their use of oil by 50%, and switch to alternative fuels.
--Give $10 billion to strengthen the nation's public transportation system.
--Drastically raise CAFE standards for US automakers.
The speech called on Americans to buy energy bonds, so as to take direct ownership in America's energy policy. It advocated personal sacrifice coupled with government action, all of which was ditched by Carter's successor, Ronald Reagan, in favor of the unfettered, free-market approach. That attitude has continued to persist, and was evident in President Bush's address yesterday in which he refused to prod the country into even attempting to conserve.
To Bush-once an oil man, always an oil man-the only solution is more drilling. Unfortunately, even if we hit a gusher on the first try, more domestically produced oil won't have an effect on current gas prices for may years to come. So here we are, grasping for short-term solutions to problems that always required long-range thinking.
It's too bad the country didn't follow through with Carter's plan. But his words still ring true, as this line from the speech:
"Every act of energy conservation like this is more than just common sense-I tell you it is an act of patriotism."
For further reading on why we should have gone with Carter's energy plan, try the following articles from:
The Atlanta Journal Constitution
Joseph Wheelan
Cleveland Plain Dealer
Miami Herald
Discuss.
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the president and people are so dumb today in some ways.
good speech!
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recent presidents think they are God and unfortunately people think he is God.
watch or read jimmy's speech before you watch this.
:)
check this out if you have the time
Gene Healy on "The Cult of the Presidency" - CSPAN
C-SPAN: Last week, Congress reached a compromise on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act that left many civil libertarians critical of the continued breadth of executive power. Gene Healy, author of "The Cult of the Presidency: America's Dangerous Devotion to Executive Power", discusses similar excesses of executive power that presidents of both parties have enjoyed and the willingness of both Congress and the American people to give a president more power than the constitution allows.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=222461.0 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=222461.0)
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Of course he was right, as he is on the Israelis inhumane treatment of the Palestinians.
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this is a nice line
too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns. But we've discovered that owning things and consuming things does not satisfy our longing for meaning. We've learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose.
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Of course he was right, as he is on the Israelis inhumane treatment of the Palestinians.
Inhumane like islamists murdering 4 year old girls after murdering her father? Interesting...
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Carter forgot the whole free market thing.....
Never use more foreign oil than that which we ourselves produce.
--Start massive government investment to develop alternative sources of fuel.
--Mandate that utility companies cut their use of oil by 50%, and switch to alternative fuels.
--Give $10 billion to strengthen the nation's public transportation system.
All good things, no problem there.
It advocated personal sacrifice coupled with government action...pure socialist bullshit. Do u remember the economy under Carter. It wasn't until Reaganus Maxiumus and his tax cuts saved us. Christ we'd be speaking Russin by now if that idiot had his way.
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Carter forgot the whole free market thing.....
Never use more foreign oil than that which we ourselves produce.
--Start massive government investment to develop alternative sources of fuel.
--Mandate that utility companies cut their use of oil by 50%, and switch to alternative fuels.
--Give $10 billion to strengthen the nation's public transportation system.
All good things, no problem there.
It advocated personal sacrifice coupled with government action...pure socialist bullshit. Do u remember the economy under Carter. It wasn't until Reaganus Maxiumus and his tax cuts saved us. Christ we'd be speaking Russin by now if that idiot had his way.
So you're saying he was right?
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He was an idiot of epic porportions....some of that stuff was ok...but it called for Uncle sam to do those things or mandate that private industry do them...sorry but we're not a socialist country.
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He was an idiot of epic porportions....some of that stuff was ok...but it called for Uncle sam to do those things or mandate that private industry do them...sorry but we're not a socialist country.
Look at Energy companies... They are regulated and they are fairly priced and those companies make money.
Tell me again how we're not socialist?
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Every day we get more so...no denying it. All because of the Dems stupidity.
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So you don't think regulating the energy companies was a good thing?
At what part does it become necessary to curb corporate greed? Is there ever a time when it should be done?
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This is a pointless argument to pose to hh6. He is a member of the US military.
The military's job under this current administration is to do the bidding of corporations.
The corporations are only interested in unlimited profits at the people's expense.
Corporations do not care about countries, ...they care about profits.
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So you don't think regulating the energy companies was a good thing?
At what part does it become necessary to curb corporate greed? Is there ever a time when it should be done?
Hold it you actually believe energy companies are regulated?
with tax breaks and subsidies galore.
You never curb greed, those that make the greed have the right to continue to make more until they do make mistakes.
Kinda greedy that people want to take that greed and their influence away from them.
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Carter forgot the whole free market thing.....
Never use more foreign oil than that which we ourselves produce.
--Start massive government investment to develop alternative sources of fuel.
--Mandate that utility companies cut their use of oil by 50%, and switch to alternative fuels.
--Give $10 billion to strengthen the nation's public transportation system.
All good things, no problem there.
It advocated personal sacrifice coupled with government action...pure socialist bullshit. Do u remember the economy under Carter. It wasn't until Reaganus Maxiumus and his tax cuts saved us. Christ we'd be speaking Russin by now if that idiot had his way.
so what's your suggestion as the "right thing"to do?
What's wrong with any of these things and how does it require personal sacrifice?
and even if it did require some, isn't personal sacrifice required in some way to attain better things? short term pain long term gain?
I don;t disagree Carter's presidency was terrible, but this doesn't sound bad.
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Hold it you actually believe energy companies are regulated?
with tax breaks and subsidies galore.
You never curb greed, those that make the greed have the right to continue to make more until they do make mistakes.
Kinda greedy that people want to take that greed and their influence away from them.
There is a Federal Energy Regulatory Commision... FERC.
They do regulate energy... You either believe that the government does it's job or you don't... In all aspects.
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I realize that some in the energy industry take advantage...they don't need hand-outs any more. Jag don't ever speak for me or explain my postions or beliefs to anybody, ever for any reason. ur a foreign Lib from a second rate country.....who runs pyrimid schemes.
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Every day we get more so...no denying it. All because of the Dems stupidity.
So bush is blameless here?
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We're talking CARTER....CARTER.....CAR TER.
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There is a Federal Energy Regulatory Commision... FERC.
They do regulate energy... You either believe that the government does it's job or you don't... In all aspects.
Considering Enron.
:-\
Here is what happens the big guys makes jobs for the smaller guys, you regulate something, you cut profits which cut into jobs, which means your politician won't get voted back in if he can't keep his promise of a growing economy in your area, which means he gives tax cuts and compensation galore to companies when commisions actually do their job in order to keep jobs as best he can. Prime example is Edwin Edwards, and Standard Oil.
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so what's your suggestion as the "right thing"to do?
What's wrong with any of these things and how does it require personal sacrifice?
and even if it did require some, isn't personal sacrifice required in some way to attain better things? short term pain long term gain?
I don;t disagree Carter's presidency was terrible, but this doesn't sound bad.
BUMP for HH6
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We're talking CARTER....CARTER.....CAR TER.
I understand... Yes, the peanut farmer was considered very unpopular during his day, but you must admit that the guy is not incorrect in some of his statements.
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I understand... Yes, the peanut farmer was considered very unpopular during his day, but you must admit that the guy is not incorrect in some of his statements.
Anyone can make a statement that is right, takes action for it to matter though. :-\
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Anyone can make a statement that is right, takes action for it to matter though. :-\
So the statement(s) is (are) right?
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So the statement(s) is (are) right?
These?
--Start massive government investment to develop alternative sources of fuel.
--Mandate that utility companies cut their use of oil by 50%, and switch to alternative fuels.
--Give $10 billion to strengthen the nation's public transportation system.
Of course. These ideas put into action, grown over time, would today make this country alot stronger and secure than it's current state the past decade.
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These?
--Start massive government investment to develop alternative sources of fuel.
--Mandate that utility companies cut their use of oil by 50%, and switch to alternative fuels.
--Give $10 billion to strengthen the nation's public transportation system.
Of course. These ideas put into action, grown over time, would today make this country alot stronger and secure than it's current state the past decade.
Then why didn't they happen? Who decided to not do these measures?
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These?
--Start massive government investment to develop alternative sources of fuel.
--Mandate that utility companies cut their use of oil by 50%, and switch to alternative fuels.
--Give $10 billion to strengthen the nation's public transportation system.
Of course. These ideas put into action, grown over time, would today make this country alot stronger and secure than it's current state the past decade.
Do you think the market will force companies to develop alternative fuel sources?
The only time i see them truly developing alternative fuel on there on (save the token crap) is when the consumer no longer buys gas.
But I'm open to discussing this further and learning why it's not the way to do it, either way.
Also, we invest in stupid sh1t all the time. I think what turns most conservatives off is: "massive Government Investment" If we don't invest in something we will get zero return from everything. And the lack of energy policy in the USA seems to have hurt us and put us in a Dependant mode on foreign oil.
So aside from all the political ideology BS, what's are the practical solutions?
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Do you think the market will force companies to develop alternative fuel sources?
The only time i see them truly developing alternative fuel on there on (save the token crap) is when the consumer no longer buys gas.
But I'm open to discussing this further and learning why it's not the way to do it, either way.
Also, we invest in stupid sh1t all the time. I think what turns most conservatives off is: "massive Government Investment" If we don't invest in something we will get zero return from everything. And the lack of energy policy in the USA seems to have hurt us and put us in a Dependant mode on foreign oil.
So aside from all the political ideology BS, what's are the practical solutions?
It's starts with taxation, one of the biggest ways to begin so people can see and feel it's POWER, is by giving states their sovereignty powers back in these particular areas of interest. Let states who have a monopoly on items such as liquor tax, state lotteries, and gambling start the ideas that require building and investment, it's a great abortive scheme that will give partial dependence to many different prototypes. You can't have a federal program at this level, it won't work; to many dissenters, to many begging hands, way too much greed at the top.
Utility companies, transportation companies, they all want out of oil they see the future is bleak and profits are up and down no one wants uncertainty. Only problem is the market is never wrong only people's ideas and speculations. Another reason why we should let states spend not the federal level spend. Letting states spend is developmental, why? Because the state substitutes for insufficient private sectors, creating competition, but the downside is it's on a much lower revenue raising interests, which can collapse into a welfare system, like Germany and their railroad days, and other concealed employment sectors. I think that this won't happen though, prices are going to keep getting high throughout all of this and things will become nationalized.
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Read Bush's 2005 energy policy. It is very similar to Carter's.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/energy/
http://www.doe.gov/media/FINAL_8-14_DOE_booklet_copy_sep.pdf
The dems 2007 energy polkicy is very different, where it is more concerned with were energy comes from the energy independence. Oil prices will continue to rise under the democrats as they start to restrict were there oil comes from. Good by Canadian oil, so long development of Shale oil.
http://energy.senate.gov/public/_files/RL342941.pdf
By the way Canada has some of the stricted enviromental records around. This is of no consequence to the deomcrates who are listeming to Saudi Arabia.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080628.EOBAMA28/TPStory/Environment
http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/05/13/top-five-actions-your-federal-government-can-take-to-lower-energy-prices/
“Once developed, U.S. oil shale resources will be similar in extent and energy potential to Alberta’s tar sand reserves. When oil shale and tar sands are considered together, the United States and Canada will be able to claim the largest oil reserves in the world.”However, in 2007, Congress adopted a rider that prohibited the Department of Interior from completing the task it was assigned in 2005. Consequently, the United States is still without a program to bring this massive resource to market for American consumers.
America voted for these guys. At least Carter was looking out for America and American Businesses first which happen to be the major investors in Canadian Oil sands. Instead congress wants American money to go to Sheiks in the middle East.
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It's starts with taxation, one of the biggest ways to begin so people can see and feel it's POWER, is by giving states their sovereignty powers back in these particular areas of interest. Let states who have a monopoly on items such as liquor tax, state lotteries, and gambling start the ideas that require building and investment, it's a great abortive scheme that will give partial dependence to many different prototypes. You can't have a federal program at this level, it won't work; to many dissenters, to many begging hands, way too much greed at the top.
Bush made some comment when he took office to the effect that states should have more power.
After 6 years of republican majority NOTHING has changed in that regard. Which is some proof, it's nothing but lip service and the 2 party system is a scam.
Utility companies, transportation companies, they all want out of oil they see the future is bleak and profits are up and down no one wants uncertainty. Only problem is the market is never wrong only people's ideas and speculations. Another reason why we should let states spend not the federal level spend. Letting states spend is developmental, why? Because the state substitutes for insufficient private sectors, creating competition, but the downside is it's on a much lower revenue raising interests, which can collapse into a welfare system, like Germany and their railroad days, and other concealed employment sectors. I think that this won't happen though, prices are going to keep getting high throughout all of this and things will become nationalized.
I'm sorry but i don't what any of this has to do with investing in alternative fuels such as nuclear power for utility companies.
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I realize that some in the energy industry take advantage...they don't need hand-outs any more. Jag don't ever speak for me or explain my postions or beliefs to anybody, ever for any reason.
Fair enough.
However, I was NOT speaking for you, or explaining your position. I was discussing my assessment of your position, what I believe to be your conflict of interest, and your moral / mental /spiritual disconnect with universal law.
ur a foreign Lib from a second rate country
In that case, I can only presume that it must really gall you to know that my "2nd rate country" performed best of all the G8 nations including your "1st rate country" or that our dollar is worth more than yours?
Since I've agreed not to speak for you, suppose you could tell us in your own words how it feels to know you're fighting a losing battle, to know that the people aren't as stupid as you take them to be, and that they're standing up & taking notice and taking their country back from the big corporations who have pillaged, raped and squandered the national treasury, ...and refusing to let dickless wonders propagandize them into marching to their deaths?
How does it feel to be the last of the dodo birds?