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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Boost on July 24, 2008, 04:47:24 PM
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I'm always impressed with guys doing BNP wiv alot of weight.
305 for 2 with a good range of motion. Monster strength
Whole gym watching.
FREE WEIGHT no smith bullshit
Anyone else seen any big BNP's? pretty rare to see :o
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seen a few guys press 315 in front of the neck to chin level but not BNP, there used to be a couple of young clowns in my old gym who used to try pressing 255-275 behind the neck but would barely clear the top of their heads. ::)
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Yes, quite often. Either sitting or standing. The guy's who touch the base of the neck are doing the true version. Though most get a little below ear level and than back up. Either way, 90% do not lock out.
If more guy's paid serious attention to the PBN (aka BNP), rather than benches (flat/incline/decline), 300's would be quite common in most gym's. Goes for military's also. Good Luck.
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Yes, quite often. Either sitting or standing. The guy's who touch the base of the neck are doing the true version. Though most get a little below ear level and than back up. Either way, 90% do not lock out.
If more guy's paid serious attention to the PBN (aka BNP), rather than benches (flat/incline/decline), 300's would be quite common in most gym's. Goes for military's also. Good Luck.
It seems like that weight on a PBN, which requires pretty excessive shoulder abduction, would pretty much kill the shoulder. Isn't that usually the culprit for killing the shoulders on bench pressing - pushing your elbows out in line with the shoulder, rather than keeping them in tighter?
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If anyone has a fear or doubt about the PBN, or any other exercise, than do not do that exercise. The BPN is included in a lot of PL'ers training because it seems to strengthen the bench pressing power as well as the total shoulder girdle. If that does not work for others, than avoid it by all means. Though most will approach the PBN without fully understanding the correct warm-up, stretch and how to work into a reasonable weight at first. Good Luck.
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I'm not afraid of it, I have done it before, it just seems to me that doing it on a frequent basis would put a good amount of excess stress on the shoulder joint. Or are there modifications to the typical elbows out wide technique that would make it safer in the long run?
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have never seen that much weight done bnp in my gym. i guess they are all whimps and wusses where i go. i have seen about that much leg pressed and benched. the most i ever saw benched was at a contest in college when i was 19. (some dude benched 425!) he was a big mutha fuka' though... ;D
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I'm not afraid of it, I have done it before, it just seems to me that doing it on a frequent basis would put a good amount of excess stress on the shoulder joint. Or are there modifications to the typical elbows out wide technique that would make it safer in the long run?
the problem is that with the postitioning you're forced to take an ultra wide grip and that cuts down o the amount of weight you can use on it compared to the front press, you have to have TREMENDOUS flexibilty to do PBN's with a narrower grip.
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If your taking an ultra wide hand position on the PBN, than you are doing the exercise totally wrong. You want about a 90 degree angle at the elbow. Any thing wider puts unneeded stress on the shoulder girdle. Same with a military press, with an extra wide stressful grip.
Most BB'ers are not that flexible in the shoulder girdle when it comes to any overhead press.Too much in love with doing only benches or inclines, which does not help to develop complete shoulder range or flex, but may even limit them. Easily solved by stretching and doing light rep with maybe only an exercise bar at first. The more practice/warm-up reps gotten in before pressing the better. Fairly simple to improve becoming very flexible in that area. Good Luck.
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If your taking an ultra wide hand position on the PBN, than you are doing the exercise totally wrong. You want about a 90 degree angle at the elbow. Any thing wider puts unneeded stress on the shoulder girdle. Same with a military press, with an extra wide stressful grip.
Most BB'ers are not that flexible in the shoulder girdle when it comes to any overhead press.Too much in love with doing only benches or inclines, which does not help to develop complete shoulder range or flex, but may even limit them. Easily solved by stretching and doing light rep with maybe only an exercise bar at first. The more practice/warm-up reps gotten in before pressing the better. Fairly simple to improve becoming very flexible in that area. Good Luck.
Good advice. Thanks, I will give it a try and see how it works for me.
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If your taking an ultra wide hand position on the PBN, than you are doing the exercise totally wrong. You want about a 90 degree angle at the elbow. Any thing wider puts unneeded stress on the shoulder girdle. Same with a military press, with an extra wide stressful grip.
Most BB'ers are not that flexible in the shoulder girdle when it comes to any overhead press.Too much in love with doing only benches or inclines, which does not help to develop complete shoulder range or flex, but may even limit them. Easily solved by stretching and doing light rep with maybe only an exercise bar at first. The more practice/warm-up reps gotten in before pressing the better. Fairly simple to improve becoming very flexible in that area. Good Luck.
You can actually push more weight by using a narrawer grip, after you adapt of course.
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let me get this straight...BNPs can increase bench press? how?
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let me get this straight...BNPs can increase bench press? how?
I'm just guessing, but I would go with increased flexibility through the shoulder girdle leading to increased ability to expand the chest during a press, as well as the shoulder being a secondary muscle in the BP. Kind of like stronger triceps will move your bench up. Improve the weaker links and you can use more weight.
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Zach T. is correct. Most important statements of his is "improve the weaker links" and" increase flexibility". PBN's also can improve the triceps contractions greatly, adding more strength to the bench. I know some will ask how can a overhead press help a front lying press, but it seems to for a lot of men.
Sort of like when the hip's, glutes and hams become more flexible, through stretching and other means, the squat will improve. Added to that some serious low back training like GM'ings or SLDL's to come close to ones potential on the squat. Heavy ab work included. Good Luck.
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I'm just guessing, but I would go with increased flexibility through the shoulder girdle leading to increased ability to expand the chest during a press, as well as the shoulder being a secondary muscle in the BP. Kind of like stronger triceps will move your bench up. Improve the weaker links and you can use more weight.
Good post Zach.
I've seen a few guys do 275 pounds for reps behind the neck, full ROM.
I never felt comfortable doing them, so i haven't even tried them in years.
I do clean and press all the time, i think it's one of the best overall exercises.
8)
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alright well i am in desperate need of an improved bench and im willing to tryanything including behind the neck presses. however, i always found them to be uncomfortable and i always thought they felt somehow unnatural. same goes for behind the neck pull downs. can anyone give me instructions on how to do these without the risk of injury?
also have heard a few people working in the physical therapy area that behind the neck pulldowns and presses are no good for the rotator cuff. any thoughts on this?
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I'm always impressed with guys doing BNP wiv alot of weight.
305 for 2 with a good range of motion. Monster strength
Whole gym watching.
FREE WEIGHT no smith bullshit
Anyone else seen any big BNP's? pretty rare to see :o
I think you're lying !
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Nodeal: Everything is pretty much laid out for you on how to do the PBN in safety on this thread. Regarding the importance of flexibility, warm-ups and stretches. Even the hand grip position and ROM. If approaching this exercise with common sense, there should be no fear of doing it. If after awhile you feel it is still not for you, than drop it and do something else.
I would bet that many more rotor cuff and other shoulder girdle injuries have been caused by BP'ing than properly preformed PBN's ever have. Also know a few sport's doctors. General thought for them is that any exercise should be treated with respect. With that in mind, most any exercise can be done injury free and rewarding in the long run. Including the PBN and even up-right rows. Good Luck.
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A real press behind the neck is where you press from the where you would rest the bar for a squat. That is something I rarely see. Most is a guy pressing from somewhere from mid head level where 6 inches of range of motion are gone making the lift a lot easier. In the old days the guys took the bar from the squat rack resting the bar on their trap as in a squat. There would be very few guys claiming a 300lbs. pbn if they did it this way.
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A real press behind the neck is where you press from the where you would rest the bar for a squat. That is something I rarely see. Most is a guy pressing from somewhere from mid head level where 6 inches of range of motion are gone making the lift a lot easier. In the old days the guys took the bar from the squat rack resting the bar on their trap as in a squat. There would be very few guys claiming a 300lbs. pbn if they did it this way.
i agree, i remember reading about Ken Patera doing them that way.
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A real press behind the neck is where you press from the where you would rest the bar for a squat. That is something I rarely see. Most is a guy pressing from somewhere from mid head level where 6 inches of range of motion are gone making the lift a lot easier. In the old days the guys took the bar from the squat rack resting the bar on their trap as in a squat. There would be very few guys claiming a 300lbs. pbn if they did it this way.
Thats for sure, however I wouldn`t recommend this way as in general training, it seems a little risky for injury, besides half way down the back of the head is a good range of motion.
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A real press behind the neck is where you press from the where you would rest the bar for a squat.
my rotor cuff started screaming just reading that
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my rotor cuff started screaming just reading that
Well then you have some idea about how much "oldtimer"'s colon hurts when it gets stretched from penile "calisthenics" at the Blue Oyster Bar on a busy Saturday night. ;D
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A real press behind the neck is where you press from the where you would rest the bar for a squat. That is something I rarely see.
probably because lowering the bar that far is an incredibly stupid idea. might as well start suggesting the old "bench press to the neck with flared elbows" technique.
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probably because lowering the bar that far is an incredibly stupid idea. might as well start suggesting the old "bench press to the neck with flared elbows" technique.
lol ;D
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A real press behind the neck is where you press from the where you would rest the bar for a squat. That is something I rarely see. Most is a guy pressing from somewhere from mid head level where 6 inches of range of motion are gone making the lift a lot easier. In the old days the guys took the bar from the squat rack resting the bar on their trap as in a squat. There would be very few guys claiming a 300lbs. pbn if they did it this way.
i think thats how marius pudzanowski (spelling, lol) does them. i remember seeing a vid of him doing presses like that when he train at the K
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i think thats how marius pudzanowski (spelling, lol) does them. i remember seeing a vid of him doing presses like that when he train at the K
that was a push press, closer to a behind-the-neck jerk. no one would ever to a standard BNP all the way down to the traps.
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that was a push press, closer to a behind-the-neck jerk. no one would ever to a standard BNP all the way down to the traps.
why not?
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Some lifters will jerk-press PBN's, starting with the bar resting on the back of the traps. Like when getting ready for squating. Each rep started from a dead stop for a second or to. Beginning from that dead stop position can go far to develop the important starting push off. Seems to improve the total push to lockout for some. Same can be said for the bench or just about anything else. If I remember correctly, a few Bulgarian and Romanian Olympic lifters handled well over 400 in these PBN jerk-press.
Really not any true or real version of the PBN for everyone, but the version that you can handle with confidence and semi-comfort. No point on ragging how the PBN (or up-right row) should never be done by any one because of the potential danger. That's not always true. Because you may think it is dangerous for you does not make it so for everyone else. Some make great gains in power and size while training the shoulder girdle to become more flexible and stronger than ever. Have to find out your self through experience.
A lot of very huge and thick BB'ing do the middle range rep thing. Very fast reps. Never going less than a little below ear level and never higher than maybe 2 to 4 inches before lockout. That TUT thing again, though they do not always call it that, just rep'ing out. They use from moderate to very heavy weight, depending on the BB'er. I think most guy's who come here would gain from testing that method, when they understand the bases and theory of it.
Too many guy's here are way too concerned with big numbers on the bench, Dl and squat. Muscle mass does not always follow strength gains. The ratio does not always match. Some people will have to decide if they want to be a PL'er or a BB'er and train accordingly. Their training video's and workout plans, though helpful, seem to suggest that. Good Luck.
Side Bar: Just wonder why no one would do a standard PBN all the way down to the traps? No one is everyone...right?
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charles glass says that the correct way to do a behind the neck press is to ONLY go down to the ears, then go up just short of lockout, and to keep the reps within that range and keeping tension on the delts. he said its dangerous any other way, but that its a great mass builder as long as you do it his way. i never do behind the neck press with a free weight barbell, buut when im doing dumbell press i will pull my shoulders all the way back and kinda simulate a behind the neck dumbell press... and sometimes i will do behind the neck press on the smith machine... i really like the feel of these, they feel like they hit the entire delt pretty good... but to be honest i never notice any differences when i do them or when i dont.
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i have been in the game for a good 15 yrs and have always done bnp to ear level. I workout with 275 and have had great results at building delts.
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i have been in the game for a good 15 yrs and have always done bnp to ear level. I workout with 275 and have had great results at building delts.
Anything below year is stupid IMO