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Title: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: loco on August 01, 2008, 05:58:36 AM
August 1, 2008

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. federal agents have been given new powers to seize travelers' laptops and other electronic devices at the border and hold them for unspecified periods the Washington Post reported on Friday.

Under recently disclosed Department of Homeland Security policies, such seizures may be carried out without suspicion of wrongdoing, the newspaper said, quoting policies issued on July 16 by two DHS agencies.

Agents are empowered to share the contents of seized computers with other agencies and private entities for data decryption and other reasons, the newspaper said.

DHS officials said the policies applied to anyone entering the country, including U.S. citizens, and were needed to prevent terrorism.

The measures have long been in place but were only disclosed in July, under pressure from civil liberties and business travel groups acting on reports that increasing numbers of international travelers had had their laptops, cellphones and other digital devices removed and examined.

The policies cover hard drives, flash drives, cell phones, iPods, pagers, beepers, and video and audio tapes -- as well as books, pamphlets and other written materials, the report said.

The policies require federal agents to take measures to protect business information and attorney-client privileged material. They stipulate that any copies of the data must be destroyed when a review is completed and no probable cause exists to keep the information

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080801/tc_nm/usa_security_laptops_dc;_ylt=AsCmyrAl8hPTQg.MhrhoNRcDW7oF
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: MRDUMPLING on August 01, 2008, 11:04:04 AM
That's pretty scary...and people say our rights aren't being taken away as we speak.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on August 01, 2008, 11:52:05 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


I lost my Fourth Amendment rights, but I did save a whole lot of money on my taxes by electing a Neo Con!
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 24KT on August 01, 2008, 01:35:00 PM
I can see a HUGE ENORMOUS, GIGANTIC firestorm surrounding this if they start doing this en masse. Can you picture the nightmare this would create when business travellers flying in for business have their laptops and/or documents randomly seized?  ::)

I've seen them examining laptops for years, requesting permission to dust them for the presence of residue from b omb making materials, ...but I've always suspected they were simply collecting DNA samples.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 01:42:21 PM
I can see a HUGE ENORMOUS, GIGANTIC firestorm surrounding this if they start doing this en masse. Can you picture the nightmare this would create when business travellers flying in for business have their laptops and/or documents randomly seized?  ::)

I've seen them examining laptops for years, requesting permission to dust them for the presence of residue from b omb making materials, ...but I've always suspected they were simply collecting DNA samples.
wrong, they've been doing it for a while now and keeping them without much of a bitch.  I've heard of several people losing their laptops.  I remember one businessman who had lost his laptop several times and started having an real issue with it do to the fact he just started assuming it was a no go to travel overseas and work along the way not to mention losing important business related files.  Stories of this aren't new and we've never heard a major fuss over it and we never will.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: headhuntersix on August 01, 2008, 01:49:30 PM
I travel with mine and I start flying again next wednesday...its their laptop anyway (gov) but i'd be beyond pissed. Now that u mentioned this, mine will get taken, thanks Hugo.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Dos Equis on August 01, 2008, 02:01:48 PM
Don't agree with this (at least as it applies to U.S. citizens).
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 24KT on August 01, 2008, 02:11:37 PM
wrong, they've been doing it for a while now and keeping them without much of a bitch.  I've heard of several people losing their laptops.  I remember one businessman who had lost his laptop several times and started having an real issue with it do to the fact he just started assuming it was a no go to travel overseas and work along the way not to mention losing important business related files.  Stories of this aren't new and we've never heard a major fuss over it and we never will.

The operative words in my comment were 'en masse'
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: OzmO on August 01, 2008, 02:13:40 PM
If you aren't a terrorist what do you have to worry about?
 ::) ;D

Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 24KT on August 01, 2008, 02:16:36 PM
If you aren't a terrorist what do you have to worry about?
 ::) ;D



Losing all your business documents, your inability to conduct your business (the very purpose of your trip),
...and worse of all, ...some of the guys who post on Getbig would lose access to their porn.  ;D
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on August 01, 2008, 02:32:45 PM
Don't agree with this (at least as it applies to U.S. citizens).

Good to hear!  :)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 02:44:38 PM
The operative words in my comment were 'en masse'

en masse isn't the important point here.  that's not likely to happen and by the time it gets around to that, we're way past the point of return.  This has been happening for a while now and should have people pissed as though it were happening to everyone.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 02:46:06 PM
I travel with mine and I start flying again next wednesday...its their laptop anyway (gov) but i'd be beyond pissed. Now that u mentioned this, mine will get taken, thanks Hugo.
I'm not sure I get it.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Moosejay on August 01, 2008, 03:55:34 PM
I say seize away.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: youandme on August 01, 2008, 04:10:21 PM
More power to them.

Once they see the porn on my PC, and let me pass...the faster they can seize Mohammed Audbar Rasosh's computer that contains outlines on a dirty bomb.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: tonymctones on August 01, 2008, 04:59:08 PM
who doesnt back up their shit on a thumb drive? Come the fuk on if i have something even remotely important its on my pc, external hard drive and a thumb drive if im traveling. This is just poor planning although it would suck to have a lap top confiscated it shouldnt mean the end of a trip only a minor hiccup. Id rather them confiscate a few lap tops then get blown up in mid air.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 05:01:41 PM
I say seize away.
seize what?
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 05:02:22 PM
More power to them.

Once they see the porn on my PC, and let me pass...the faster they can seize Mohammed Audbar Rasosh's computer that contains outlines on a dirty bomb.
thanks for the seirous contribution to the thread ::)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 05:03:22 PM
who doesnt back up their shit on a thumb drive? Come the fuk on if i have something even remotely important its on my pc, external hard drive and a thumb drive if im traveling. This is just poor planning although it would suck to have a lap top confiscated it shouldnt mean the end of a trip only a minor hiccup. Id rather them confiscate a few lap tops then get blown up in mid air.
True, why would I give a shit about my 2000.00 laptop being seized when I have it backed up on a 150.00 western digital ::)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: headhuntersix on August 01, 2008, 05:05:18 PM
I would kindly ask them to please racially profile so I can get my shit back....Hugo I'd be very pissed.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: kh300 on August 01, 2008, 05:08:37 PM
i dont like it. its too vague. to be honest i havnt even been told about this, and im not taking anyones laptop anyways, im giving it to the FBI
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Quickerblade on August 01, 2008, 05:10:34 PM
some of the guys who post on Getbig would lose access to their porn.  ;D
thats me.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 05:12:10 PM
i dont like it. its too vague. to be honest i havnt even been told about this, and im not taking anyones laptop anyways, im giving it to the FBI
huh?
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: kh300 on August 01, 2008, 05:20:48 PM
huh?

if i see a suspicious person that has a laptop im not touching it. im handing it to the FBI. thats not my expertise.

i was just pointing out that im not sure which agents in DHS they're giving this power to.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 01, 2008, 05:35:19 PM
Very strange, they're reporting this as a new development on the news.  It's not new, it's been going on for a while.  I have heard several stories of this happening quite a while ago.  I remember one story and it's been a while where one businessman was very disgruntled at after having lost his laptop more than once.  I guess this is what we get for letting bullshit stories about Paris Hilton and other stupid crap dominate the media.  The only reason this stuff makes it into the news today?  I guess there wasn't enough sensational bullshit to cover ::)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: kh300 on August 01, 2008, 05:45:49 PM
Very strange, they're reporting this as a new development on the news.  It's not new, it's been going on for a while.  I have heard several stories of this happening quite a while ago.  I remember one story and it's been a while where one businessman was very disgruntled at after having lost his laptop more than once.  I guess this is what we get for letting bullshit stories about Paris Hilton and other stupid crap dominate the media.  The only reason this stuff makes it into the news today?  I guess there wasn't enough sensational bullshit to cover ::)

must be a customs issue. ill look into it when i go to the office in the morning (230am :()
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: MB_722 on August 01, 2008, 05:47:35 PM
Very strange, they're reporting this as a new development on the news.  It's not new, it's been going on for a while.  I have heard several stories of this happening quite a while ago.  I remember one story and it's been a while where one businessman was very disgruntled at after having lost his laptop more than once.  I guess this is what we get for letting bullshit stories about Paris Hilton and other stupid crap dominate the media.  The only reason this stuff makes it into the news today?  I guess there wasn't enough sensational bullshit to cover ::)

 :)

you've had some good posts today.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 24KT on August 01, 2008, 10:03:57 PM
who doesnt back up their shit on a thumb drive? Come the fuk on if i have something even remotely important its on my pc, external hard drive and a thumb drive if im traveling. This is just poor planning although it would suck to have a lap top confiscated it shouldnt mean the end of a trip only a minor hiccup. Id rather them confiscate a few lap tops then get blown up in mid air.

External hard drives and thumb drives are also eligible for seizure.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 24KT on August 01, 2008, 10:08:16 PM
i dont like it. its too vague. to be honest i havnt even been told about this, and im not taking anyones laptop anyways, im giving it to the FBI

That's mighty nice of you.

Considering how many laptops the FBI has lost in recent years, ...they probably have a shortage.  :D
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: tonymctones on August 01, 2008, 10:16:20 PM
True, why would I give a shit about my 2000.00 laptop being seized when I have it backed up on a 150.00 western digital ::)
if your read my post completely i said it would suck to have a lap top confiscated...DICK ::) my point was that alot of ppl on this thread are saying how it would fuck up your business trip and if thats the case then you didnt exactly think it through and plan ahead. Many things can happen during travel that can disable your lap top and  you should always back up important work.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: tonymctones on August 01, 2008, 10:18:30 PM
External hard drives and thumb drives are also eligible for seizure.
email it to yourself, there are also secure websites that allow you to store files, pics, etc...that you can access from any internet connection. Like I said if something like this completely screws your trip up then you didnt think things through.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: youandme on August 01, 2008, 10:23:20 PM
must be a customs issue. ill look into it when i go to the office in the morning (230am :()

kh, what is the weirdest thing you have experienced while working in the airport security business?
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: youandme on August 01, 2008, 10:24:17 PM
External hard drives and thumb drives are also eligible for seizure.

So I guess they would have to search you anally? lol  ;D
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 24KT on August 01, 2008, 10:29:07 PM
So I guess they would have to search you anally? lol  ;D

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/FrightenedMouse.gif)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 02, 2008, 01:57:06 AM
if your read my post completely i said it would suck to have a lap top confiscated...DICK ::) my point was that alot of ppl on this thread are saying how it would fuck up your business trip and if thats the case then you didnt exactly think it through and plan ahead. Many things can happen during travel that can disable your lap top and  you should always back up important work.
oh man, you are seriously a dumb fuck... I stand by the spirit of my post.... Wake the fuck up douchebag.  You're placing the onus on the citizen due to the fact the government might snag your laptop...  WTF you fucking moron ::)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Dos Equis on August 02, 2008, 02:11:14 AM
if your read my post completely i said it would suck to have a lap top confiscated...DICK ::) my point was that alot of ppl on this thread are saying how it would fuck up your business trip and if thats the case then you didnt exactly think it through and plan ahead. Many things can happen during travel that can disable your lap top and  you should always back up important work.

I don't really back up anything when I travel, because I can access my office network from anywhere.  If my laptop was confiscated I'd be in a world of hurt, not because I lost information, but because I would have lost the ability to access my work.  Enormous inconvenience.   

But I do carry a flash drive too. 
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 02, 2008, 02:28:20 AM
But I do carry a flash drive too. 
If they're taking your laptop, they're taking your flash drive too.  The news today stated that anything with storage capacity even phones are subject to seizure with or without any suspicion of guilt.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Dos Equis on August 02, 2008, 02:41:13 AM
If they're taking your laptop, they're taking your flash drive too.  The news today stated that anything with storage capacity even phones are subject to seizure with or without any suspicion of guilt.

Not cool.  That wouldn't affect me as much as taking my laptop. 
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 02, 2008, 02:50:16 AM
Not cool.  That wouldn't affect me as much as taking my laptop. 
yea, the guy I watched on the news months ago, maybe longer, can't remember but it's been a while, was really pissed at losing all his work related shit and more than once.  That's why I'm kind of shocked it's just news today.  I've heard of it several times before today.  I mean, if they suspect a guy enough to take all their shit, you would think they would be holding them too.  But nope.  They just snag your puter and you're stuck with it.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Dos Equis on August 02, 2008, 02:54:35 AM
yea, the guy I watched on the news months ago, maybe longer, can't remember but it's been a while, was really pissed at losing all his work related shit and more than once.  That's why I'm kind of shocked it's just news today.  I've heard of it several times before today.  I mean, if they suspect a guy enough to take all their shit, you would think they would be holding them too.  But nope.  They just snag your puter and you're stuck with it.

Now that I think about it, there is some sort of precedent for this.  I think they're called "forfeiture" laws, or something like that?  It's where the government seizes any property involved in a drug arrest (boat, car, house, money, etc.) and keeps it indefinitely.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 02, 2008, 03:17:31 AM
Now that I think about it, there is some sort of precedent for this.  I think they're called "forfeiture" laws, or something like that?  It's where the government seizes any property involved in a drug arrest (boat, car, house, money, etc.) and keeps it indefinitely.
I'm lost, hook me up here, how would that apply to this?  They can take your laptop with or without reason as stated today.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: tonymctones on August 02, 2008, 09:06:12 AM
oh man, you are seriously a dumb fuck... I stand by the spirit of my post.... Wake the fuck up douchebag.  You're placing the onus on the citizen due to the fact the government might snag your laptop...  WTF you fucking moron ::)
LOL what happens if the lap top gets broken in travel, whos fault is it you cant give your presentation or dont have the files? its yours. Same concept your letting your hatred of the government blind you here bud. What if your lap top gets stolen? you still have a responsibility to give the presentation or deliver the files correct? Am I putting the responsibility of backing their shit up on the citizens? hell ya like i said if you dont back up important shit then your a moron. Is it shitty that they can confiscate a lap top as well as thumb drive? shit ya it is, but like i said id rather them do that then explode in mid air.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: benz on August 02, 2008, 09:13:49 AM
All of my "business" data is secured by rijndael, you guys are so stupid if you dont know how to properly secure your data :)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Slapper on August 02, 2008, 09:44:04 AM
Hey, Bush pretty musch invalidated habeas corpus... so I don't know why people are making such a stink about your government taking your laptop.

What really changed is they are NOW targetting US Citizens. That's right, the monster is now coming after you too!

But worry not, the Bush family has your best interest at heart.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 240 is Back on August 02, 2008, 11:54:39 AM
I say seize away.

You should value your rights a bit more.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: Dos Equis on August 02, 2008, 01:07:37 PM
I'm lost, hook me up here, how would that apply to this?  They can take your laptop with or without reason as stated today.

Here is an explanation of how forfeiture works in drug cases:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture

Pretty much the same concept.  Government believes you may have used your property to commit a crime or the property is the fruit of a crime, so they take it.  I don't agree with forfeiture laws and don't like this laptop thing either.  Just saying this kind of thing has been going on for years. 
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 24KT on August 02, 2008, 04:33:05 PM
Any idea how long they seize it for? Is it indefinite? Once they determine you are no risk, do you get the computer back, or do you simply have to buy another one?
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: benz on August 02, 2008, 04:39:18 PM
Any idea how long they seize it for? Is it indefinite? Once they determine you are no risk, do you get the computer back, or do you simply have to buy another one?

if its crypted they should return it , useless :)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: 240 is Back on August 02, 2008, 04:39:58 PM
If you aren't a terrorist what do you have to worry about?
 ::) ;D


hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa




Funnier than...
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: evandatp on August 03, 2008, 06:23:06 AM
if its crypted they should return it , useless :)
If it's encrypted then it must contain something you want to keep private evil so they'll keep it longer while they brute-force the decryption.
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: benz on August 03, 2008, 08:01:37 AM
If it's encrypted then it must contain something you want to keep private evil so they'll keep it longer while they brute-force the decryption.


do you really think they can brute force rijndael?  ::) ::) ::)
by the time they do probably achieve it, i'll be dead :)
Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: evandatp on August 04, 2008, 04:11:07 AM
do you really think they can brute force rijndael?  ::) ::) ::)

by the time they do probably achieve it, i'll be dead ::)
I think that's what they'll tell the average flyer.

I think you should cough up the password or you won't see you laptop again.

Title: Re: U.S. agents can seize travelers' laptops: report
Post by: benz on August 04, 2008, 04:35:07 AM
I think that's what they'll tell the average flyer.

I think you should cough up the password or you won't see you laptop again.



How can they figure out its a rijndael container anyway?  ;)