Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Go 4 It on August 04, 2008, 06:45:11 PM
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Hey guys, I need to bring up my shoulders, and for some reason they are the only bodypart that doesn't get sore when I train them? Its weird... anyway any suggestions?
My routine is:
Side laterals 4 sets rep range between 6-10
Dumbell press 4 sets rep range 6-8
Upright rows: " "
Behind the neck Military press " " (alternate this with Arnold presses every other week)
Reverse Peck deck or bent over laterals 4 sets rep range 6-10
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they dont get sore because your basically using them whenever your doing upper body work.
hit them twice a week.
6-8 sets per session.
cut back on all other upper body work. maybe 3 sets for chest, 5 for back, 2-3 for arms.
do the specialization routine for 4-6 weeks. then cut down on volume/frequency. (often its when you go back to a more normal schedule that you will see the gains..)
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You're doing too much buddy. Try doing one exercise twice a week for a while. Like slaveboy said cut the volume on the rest of your workout as well while specializing.
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Thanks for the input, I was wondering if I should hit them twice a week, I'll try less sets on the actual shoulder day, and maybe work them after chest a few sets..
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they dont get sore because your basically using them whenever your doing upper body work.
hit them twice a week.
6-8 sets per session.
cut back on all other upper body work. maybe 3 sets for chest, 5 for back, 2-3 for arms.
do the specialization routine for 4-6 weeks. then cut down on volume/frequency. (often its when you go back to a more normal schedule that you will see the gains..)
???
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I wouldn't cut back on any other work, especially if you're not that big or you're happy where everything else is.
Focus on form. No throwing the weights around. Slow, 4 second positive/negatives, really focusing on feeling the contraction of the shoulders. Study up on how to perform the exercises correctly if you have any doubts.
I would stick to one pressing movement per week (switch up BB/DB for some variety) and eliminate behind the neck presses for safety of your rotator cuff. Could even make the lowest rep range of 8, so you're working more Type IIa fibres.
Improvement is not always shown by soreness. Remember to stretch after each workout, for at least 10 seconds on each musclegroup, to lengthen the muscles again and keep them flexible.
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I wouldn't cut back on any other work, especially if you're not that big or you're happy where everything else is.
Focus on form. No throwing the weights around. Slow, 4 second positive/negatives, really focusing on feeling the contraction of the shoulders. Study up on how to perform the exercises correctly if you have any doubts.
I would stick to one pressing movement per week (switch up BB/DB for some variety) and eliminate behind the neck presses for safety of your rotator cuff. Could even make the lowest rep range of 8, so you're working more Type IIa fibres.
Improvement is not always shown by soreness. Remember to stretch after each workout, for at least 10 seconds on each musclegroup, to lengthen the muscles again and keep them flexible.
Good advice!!
More than one pressing movement is redundant IMO.
Focus more on the side delt by emphasizing laterals with strict form.
Train them once a week but do a different routine weekly.
My delts grow best on higher volume with rep ranges of 5-15............sometimes even 20 reps depending on the exercise.
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I wouldn't cut back on any other work, especially if you're not that big or you're happy where everything else is.
it depends if you really need to specialize on a certain muscle group or not. if you dont have much mass at all..then specialization is pretty silly.
BUT, if your gonna do a specialization routine you have to cut back on the other muscle groups.
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???
yes 3 sets chest (altho i was thinking i terms of a upper/lower split....3sets chest twice a week). because you dont need much work to maintain, and you want to save as much energy as possible for shoulders.
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it depends if you really need to specialize on a certain muscle group or not. if you dont have much mass at all..then specialization is pretty silly.
BUT, if your gonna do a specialization routine you have to cut back on the other muscle groups.
I wasn't suggesting much different than his regular routine. Infact, cut one exercise out. Sometimes a stricter movement with more focus on contracting the muscle can make all the difference. Of course there are other ways of going about this, like wes suggested, but I just wanted to give a small adjustment and see if it works.
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I wasn't suggesting much different than his regular routine. Infact, cut one exercise out. Sometimes a stricter movement with more focus on contracting the muscle can make all the difference. Of course there are other ways of going about this, like wes suggested, but I just wanted to give a small adjustment and see if it works.
i wasnt really commenting on his current setup. he doesnt need two shoulder presses. and def doesnt need to do 4x5=20 sets.
one shoulder press. one side raise exercise and maybe rear delts (unless you do rear delts with back...as id suggest)
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Thanks for all the input guys, I must note that I always stretch before and after workouts, I also always use great form, my shoulders are really cut and vascular too, it's putting on mass that is the goal, I'm gonna focus more on the lateral movements, hopefully this will add some more fullness, I'm gonna also do one pressing movement as suggested, the one thing is that I really feal the behind the neck presses they actually feel comforatable for me and I can actually go pretty heavy on these (heavy for me)... maybe they just can't get sore, but I will keep exploring it's all trial and error.
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Thanks for all the input guys, I must note that I always stretch before and after workouts, I also always use great form, my shoulders are really cut and vascular too, it's putting on mass that is the goal, I'm gonna focus more on the lateral movements, hopefully this will add some more fullness, I'm gonna also do one pressing movement as suggested, the one thing is that I really feal the behind the neck presses they actually feel comforatable for me and I can actually go pretty heavy on these (heavy for me)... maybe they just can't get sore, but I will keep exploring it's all trial and error.
stretching is overrated (full range of motion is usually plenty). if you want bigger shoulders you need to move bigger weights. forget all the secret 4 second negative superset with olive oil routines.
if the behind the neck press feels good ..continue to do them.
work shoulders twice a week. once with chest ...after which you do side raises. and once by themselves when you do shoulder press+side raises.
and stop worrying about making shoulders sore. a muscle doesnt need to be sore to grow.
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Gottcha, I think I've been focussing more on moving the heavy weight for the presses and not really going all out heavy on the laterals, but the more I've been learning and watching various bodybuilder routines, they all seem to do more lateral stuff. But for sure, I will try this approach, hit them after chest, and as heavy as I can go on the actual day with less volume. Another thing is that I keep hearing that its hard for a natty to have full round shoulders, whats the deal with that?
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Gottcha, I think I've been focussing more on moving the heavy weight for the presses and not really going all out heavy on the laterals, but the more I've been learning and watching various bodybuilder routines, they all seem to do more lateral stuff. But for sure, I will try this approach, hit them after chest, and as heavy as I can go on the actual day with less volume. Another thing is that I keep hearing that its hard for a natty to have full round shoulders, whats the deal with that?
it comes from the fact that the shoulder and trap region tend to blow up for guys using aas. due to high 'concentration of aas receptors' in this area.
which isnt something you should think about. just do your best, thats all you can do.
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I'll definitely keep hittin them, I'm actually anxious to try these new tactics!
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mon : chest+shoulders
chest 3-5 sets (1-2 exercises)....cut back on chest work
side raises 3-4 sets 8-12 reps
and maybe some high rep shoulder press 2-3 sets 8-15reps
thur...(maybe friday): shoulders
shoulder press 3-4x 5-8reps (focus on adding weight to this exercise as often as possible..obviously try to get stronger in the other shoulder exercises too...but weight increases will come much more slowly for the side raises)
side raises 3-4x8-12reps
also cut down on back and arm volume...so that energy is channeled to the shoulder workouts.
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Looks good I will definitely give this a shot and really focus on bringin this part up, thanks for the help man!
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Hey guys, I need to bring up my shoulders, and for some reason they are the only bodypart that doesn't get sore when I train them? Its weird... anyway any suggestions?
My routine is:
Side laterals 4 sets rep range between 6-10
Dumbell press 4 sets rep range 6-8
Upright rows: " "
Behind the neck Military press " " (alternate this with Arnold presses every other week)
Reverse Peck deck or bent over laterals 4 sets rep range 6-10
I would NEVER recommend that or behind the neck pulldowns even for my worst enemy.
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I would NEVER recommend that or behind the neck pulldowns even for my worst enemy.
I know, I've heard this from alot of people, but I don't feel any discomfort whatsoever, it actually feels more comforatble to me then front military presses, and I really feel them, I don't know what I should do?
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If you wish to focus on the lateral delt head than there is the pre-exhaust system. Like doing strict lateral raises followed, without rest, with the PBN. Also middle range reps (down a little below ears and never higher the 2 or 3 inches before lockout) when doing PBN's only. Fast reps and keeping the tension (TUT) throughout the set is the idea. Three or 4 sets of 7-10 reps.
Try Arnold (idea from Gironda DB presses) presses while seated. Different version are "W" & Cuban presses. The DB side press (one arm at a time...fingers facing forward and keeping the elbow/DB inline with the shoulders) is a great delt builder. If I could only do one shoulder exercise than that would be it. DB side laterals while lying sideways on an incline bench or even on a flat bench work well. Even cheating DB raises can add mass. Every rep is in the cheat form, not just the last 1 or 2 reps of a set. In any event, shoulder workouts should start with stretches and warm-up. Senseless not too.
Might also search for complete Vince Gironda training methods. Guy's who worked at his gym all seemed to have exceptional wide and fully developed delts. And a impressive delt/pec tie in. Wide up-right rows and Gironda presses are just a few. Seemed to favor the 8X8 method, in most cases.
Do not need a lot of shoulder exercises in any workout. One pressing and one form of a lateral raise (extension exercise). Three to 4 sets of each should be more than enough, with a rep range between 7 to 10. As Wes suggest, higher reps (from 15 to 20) can yield positive results for some. A personal view is that delts, chest and triceps should always be worked together. They are a unit and should be trained as a unit. Good luck.
Side Bar: Though not mentioned, machines or cables can also have strong role in building delt size. In my mind the Nautilus shoulder machine was way ahead of it's time. The 3 geared cam and leverage was exceptional. There are versions in some medical rehab centers. If you gym has one, than give it a try. Even over conventional BB's & DB's. You will be blessed if you gym also has an original designed Nautilus pullover machine.
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I LIKE TO TRAIN READ DELTS FIRST, THEN DO PRESSES, THEN DO SIDE DELTS. ILL DO TWO MOVEMENTS FOR REAR DELTS, 3 MOVEMENTS FOR FRONT DELTS, AND 2 MOVEMENTS FOR SIDE DELTS. THEN I DO TRAPS AFTER.
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I LIKE TO TRAIN READ DELTS FIRST, THEN DO PRESSES, THEN DO SIDE DELTS. ILL DO TWO MOVEMENTS FOR REAR DELTS, 3 MOVEMENTS FOR FRONT DELTS, AND 2 MOVEMENTS FOR SIDE DELTS. THEN I DO TRAPS AFTER.
'flex magazine may 2003'
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'flex magazine may 2003'
nah,
but what happened , huh slavebitch ?
you dissapeared for a while after you
BITCHED OUT
:D
YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT YOU PUSSY MOTHER FUCKER
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I see no rotator cuff work in any of these programs..........not good.
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nah,
but what happened , huh slavebitch ?
you dissapeared for a while after you
BITCHED OUT
:D
YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT YOU PUSSY MOTHER FUCKER
i was on vacation after brutally owning you in thread after thread. :D
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nah,
but what happened , huh slavebitch ?
you dissapeared for a while after you
BITCHED OUT
:D
YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT YOU PUSSY MOTHER FUCKER
shit you better just watch the fucck out candi, "slaveboy" has monstrous lifts like 250 pound close grip benches in his log but won't post a picture, aren't you terrified of this modern day Goliath? ::)
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nah,
but what happened , huh slavebitch ?
you dissapeared for a while after you
BITCHED OUT
:D
YOU KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT YOU PUSSY MOTHER FUCKER
i was on vacation after brutally owning you in thread after thread. :D
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shit you better just watch the fucck out candi, "slaveboy" has monstrous lifts like 250 pound close grip benches in his log but won't post a picture, aren't you terrified of this modern day Goliath? ::)
is that your pick up line, dave?