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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Fury on August 08, 2008, 07:30:13 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html
Georgia's president said Friday that his country is under attack by Russian tanks and warplanes, and he accused Russia of targeting civilians as tensions over the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia appeared to boil over into full-blown conflict.
"All day today, they've been bombing Georgia from numerous warplanes and specifically targeting (the) civilian population, and we have scores of wounded and dead among (the) civilian population all around the country," President Mikhail Saakashvili told CNN in an exclusive interview.
"This is the worst nightmare one can encounter," he said.
Asked whether Georgia and Russia were now at war, he said, "My country is in self-defense against Russian aggression. Russian troops invaded Georgia."
About 150 Russian armored vehicles have entered South Ossetia, Saakashvili said, and Georgian forces had shot down two Russian aircraft.
Russia's Defense Ministry said it sent "reinforcements" to South Ossetia to help the Russian peacekeepers already stationed there.
The events followed an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council to discuss a dramatic escalation of violence in Georgia and South Ossetia. The session ended Friday morning without a statement about the fighting.
The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) said it was sending an envoy to the region immediately.
NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer issued a statement Friday saying he was seriously concerned about the recent events in the region, and he called on all sides to end armed clashes and begin direct talks. Video Watch more about NATO's attempts to help Georgia »
Carmen Romero, a NATO spokeswoman speaking to CNN from Brussels, reiterated Scheffer's statement. She said NATO was in regular contact with Georgia's president and was talking to the Russian side.
Britain and the United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence.
"The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe. "We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."
Earlier Friday, Russian military aircraft dropped two bombs on Georgian territory, a Georgian official said, causing no casualties.
In a letter addressed to his "fellow citizens" Friday, Saakashvili said he had mobilized tens of thousands of reserve officers and that the mobilization continued.
"We must unite," Saakashvili wrote. "All of us, hundreds of thousands of Georgians here and abroad, should come together, unite, and fight to save Georgia. We are a freedom-loving people, and if our nation is united, no aggressor will be able to harm it."
Georgia declared a unilateral three-hour ceasefire at 3 p.m. to enable civilians to escape from the conflict zone, which so far was focused inside South Ossetia but included aerial targets inside Georgia, Saakashvili said.
"Clearly they don't really have boundaries in their activities," said Georgian Foreign Minister Eka Tkeshelashvili, in an interview with CNN. She said Russian aircraft had bombed "several villages" in Georgia outside of the South Ossetian territory.
Tkeshelashvili said Georgian authorities are still collecting information on casualties.
Georgia was appealing to the world for diplomatic intervention, she said, stressing that Georgia was not asking for military assistance.
Violence has been mounting in the region in recent days, with sporadic clashes between Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists. South Ossetia declared its independence from Georgia in the early 1990s, but its independence is not internationally recognized.
Georgian troops launched new attacks in South Ossetia late Thursday after a top government official said a unilateral cease-fire offer was met with separatist artillery fire.
Alexander Lomaia, the secretary of Georgia's National Security Council, said Georgian troops were responding proportionately to separatist mortar and artillery attacks on two villages -- attacks he said followed the cease-fire and call for negotiations by Saakashvili.
Russia said a Georgian attack on a military barracks left a number of Russian peacekeepers dead.
"It's all very sad and alarming," Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said earlier in the day. "And, of course, there will be a response."
Putin was at a meeting with U.S. President Bush in Beijing, where they attended a luncheon for world leaders hosted by the Chinese president ahead of the Olympics, which begin Friday.
"There are lots of volunteers being gathered in the region, and it's very hard to withhold them from taking part. A real war is going on," Putin said, according to his spokesman, Dmitry Peskov.
Russian peacekeepers are in South Ossetia under a 1992 agreement by Russian, Georgian, and South Ossetian authorities to maintain what has been a fragile peace. The mixed peacekeeping force also includes Georgian and South Ossetian troops.
"The Georgian leadership has launched a dirty adventure," said a statement from Russia's Defense Ministry on Friday. "We will not leave our peacekeepers and Russian citizens unprotected."
Saakashvili said the Russian invasion of South Ossetia was pre-planned.
"These troops that are in Georgia now -- they didn't come unexpectedly," the president told CNN. "They had been amassing at the border for the last few months. They claimed they were staging exercises there and as soon as a suitable pretext was found, they moved in."
Georgia, located on the Black Sea coast between Russia and Turkey, has been split by Russian-backed separatist movements in South Ossetia and another region, Abkhazia.
I think this is where the apologists tell us how the USA is the only evil country in the world and that we target civilians, Russia and China are loving countries who show great respect towards human rights, love everyone equally, blah blah.
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I bet the Russian soldiers are pissed - it being a Friday afternoon and the Olympics being on the TV.
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Since the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq, they can't say shit without being hypocrites.
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Since the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq, they can't say shit without being hypocrites.
Nope, but I'd love to see the apologists who say that China, Russia and other countries never pull shit like this try to justify their statements. The same ones who imply that only the US invades other countries and that every other country in the world would love each other and take turns giving out blowjobs if the US left all their bases.
The USA didn't blindly target Iraqi civilians in their invasion, though. But the Russian's have excelled at that for decades.
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Nope, but I'd love to see the apologists who say that China, Russia and other countries never pull shit like this try to justify their statements. The same ones who imply that only the US invades other countries and that every other country in the world would love each other and take turns giving out blowjobs if the US left all their bases.
Not too sure who it is that ever stated your theory that other countries never start wars. ??? Good luck finding a response to that question...maybe someone here will give a credible retort. To me, it's sounds like an overly simplistic and hyperbolic response to those who believe diplomacy is good and that and imperialist agenda is not always in America's best interests.
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html
Georgia's president said Friday that his country is under attack by Russian tanks and warplanes, and he accused Russia of targeting civilians as tensions over the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia appeared to boil over into full-blown conflict.
They can bomb georgia all they want. But if they mess with florida, look out, bytches...
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Not too sure who it is that ever stated your theory that other countries never start wars. ??? Good luck finding a response to that question...maybe someone here will give a credible retort. To me, it's sounds like an overly simplistic and hyperbolic response to those who believe diplomacy is good and that and imperialist agenda is not always in America's best interests.
Decker, along with a few other posters, has stated and implied that the world would be all hunky dory if the USA pulled out of all foreign bases and even went so far as to allude to the delusion that Russia and China would not swoop in and clean shop if we were to leave.
Many people here appear to be under the delusion that the USA is the only country that invades, completely oblivious (most likely ignoring to further prove their point) that the majority of the other powers in the world have worse track records than us.
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all countries pull as much asshole stuff as the world will tolerate.
they do it, we do it.
what they're doing - hitting civilians - is pre-emptively killing insurgents, no? Had we done this in iraq, al-sadr woudln't have been able to recruit so many folks, because people would have been at home tending to their wounded kin.
Russians tend to wound civvies intentionally to take the men out of it, remember? Just like we tend to let attacks happen, lie about wmd, etc etc.
Everyone does the same F'ked up stuff. Nobody has the high horse to criticize anyone for it. "At least we dont..." is crybabyspeak at its worst. They do fcked up stuff, we do fcked up stuff. Now go eat your lunch.
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They can bomb georgia all they want. But if they mess with florida, look out, bytches...
I would be up for invading Georgia. All those mint juleps, Southern belles, all talking like Scarlett O'Hara and the balmy Southern nights.
Sounds great.
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I would be up for invading Georgia. All those mint juleps, Southern belles, all talking like Scarlett O'Hara and the balmy Southern nights.
Sounds great.
rock n roll. you step foot into FL and youll see one pissed off fat kid ready to glock your ass.
Glock as a verb... you like that one?
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all countries pull as much asshole stuff as the world will tolerate.
they do it, we do it.
what they're doing - hitting civilians - is pre-emptively killing insurgents, no? Had we done this in iraq, al-sadr woudln't have been able to recruit so many folks, because people would have been at home tending to their wounded kin.
Russians tend to wound civvies intentionally to take the men out of it, remember? Just like we tend to let attacks happen, lie about wmd, etc etc.
Everyone does the same F'ked up stuff. Nobody has the high horse to criticize anyone for it. "At least we dont..." is crybabyspeak at its worst. They do fcked up stuff, we do fcked up stuff. Now go eat your lunch.
Interesting. Instead of telling this to me, you should be telling it to the people who think that the US is the only one that does it and that Russia/China/other superpowers would never do any such thing again if we were to leave all our foreign bases. :-X
Very intriguing that you're justifying the attacking of civilians.
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all countries pull as much asshole stuff as the world will tolerate.
they do it, we do it.
what they're doing - hitting civilians - is pre-emptively killing insurgents, no? Had we done this in iraq, al-sadr woudln't have been able to recruit so many folks, because people would have been at home tending to their wounded kin.
Russians tend to wound civvies intentionally to take the men out of it, remember? Just like we tend to let attacks happen, lie about wmd, etc etc.
Everyone does the same F'ked up stuff. Nobody has the high horse to criticize anyone for it. "At least we dont..." is crybabyspeak at its worst. They do fcked up stuff, we do fcked up stuff. Now go eat your lunch.
So you agree that the people that only think the U.S. is "rotten" since we have to protect our interests with military, are delusional into thinking that only the U.S. uses military stances to confront issues?
I agree.
Perhaps those people only read a domestic newspaper or have never gone beyond United States borders.
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I would be up for invading Georgia. All those mint juleps, Southern belles, all talking like Scarlett O'Hara and the balmy Southern nights.
Sounds great.
rock n roll. you step foot into FL and youll see one pissed off fat kid ready to glock your ass.
Glock as a verb... you like that one?
Rock n' Roll!
Hesitation doesn't come easily in this blood...
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Interesting. Instead of telling this to me, you should be telling it to the people who think that the US is the only one that does it and that Russia/China/other superpowers would never do any such thing again if we were to leave all our foreign bases. :-X
Very intriguing that you're justifying the attacking of civilians.
In war, you do what it takes to win. If we could have wounded 1000 civvies in iraq in 2003, and it would have kept 2000 of our men alive because those 100 pricks laying IEDs were staying home wounded to the crippled---
FVCK yeah I'd support that.
Russia did that in afghanistan. They dropped bombs disguised as toys. But they didn't put enough explosive into them to kill. Only enough to take off a limb. Men stayed home to care for the crippled.
Is it evil? hell yeah. So is invading iraq for oil. world is evil brah.
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So you agree that the people that only think the U.S. is "rotten" since we have to protect our interests with military, are delusional into thinking that only the U.S. uses military stances to confront issues?
I agree.
Perhaps those people only read a domestic newspaper or have never gone beyond United States borders.
We take their oil so we can live well. I admit it, I can live with it. Morally wrong, sure. Way of the world.
Russia is doing the same thing. They're fcking up georgia for their own reasons.
We're not 'rotten'... we're acting an a utilitarian national sense. Cheney and Bush are doing a good job there. It's the pillaging of treasury, ending middle class, and raping of constitution via pat act that i"m not happy with. Take out as many oil-rich dictators as you must.
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Rock n' Roll!
Hesitation doesn't come easily in this blood...
Yep. But when shit hits the fan, you can bet your ass I'd be pulling you to safety while gunning the fck out of whatever is coming at us.
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In war, you do what it takes to win. If we could have wounded 1000 civvies in iraq in 2003, and it would have kept 2000 of our men alive because those 100 pricks laying IEDs were staying home wounded to the crippled---
FVCK yeah I'd support that.
Russia did that in afghanistan. They dropped bombs disguised as toys. But they didn't put enough explosive into them to kill. Only enough to take off a limb. Men stayed home to care for the crippled.
Is it evil? hell yeah. So is invading iraq for oil. world is evil brah.
Again, you don't need to explain this to me. I fully understand it. You should be directing this towards the people who are delusional enough to think that the USA is the big meany in the world, when half of the shit we pull isn't even close to some of the Russian/Chinese/other countries tactics.
Only pointing it out for all the retards that think the world would be one big happy place if the USA were to leave all its foreign bases, when I reckon it would be a lot worse with China and Russia running around unimpeded.
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Rock n' Roll!
Hesitation doesn't come easily in this blood...
Although 240 seems like decent kind of chap, that pic never gets any less funny...
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=227769.0;attach=266578;image)
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Again, you don't need to explain this to me. I fully understand it. You should be directing this towards the people who are delusional enough to think that the USA is the big meany in the world, when half of the shit we pull isn't even close to some of the Russian/Chinese/other countries tactics.
Only pointing it out for all the retards that think the world would be one big happy place if the USA were to leave all its foreign bases, when I reckon it would be a lot worse with China and Russia running around unimpeded.
ah, the beauty of America is that those people have just as much right to be wrong about that, as the neocuunts here have the right to be completely wrong about "Iraq wasn't about oil - it was about making the iraqi people safe - we're not stealing oil, you CT nut!"
Both groups are delusional. Both groups are out of touch with reality. Far right, and far left. Those of us in the middle - the global realists - understand that the utilitarian nature of international relations have nothing to do with the moral "ten commandments" mantras most of us follow. We elect guys like dick, mccain, and obama to make those tough calls so we don't have to.
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Washington - Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said in a television interview on Friday that Russia was fighting a war with his country.
"We have Russian tanks moving in. We have continuous Russian bombardment since yesterday ... specifically targeting the civilian population," Saakashvili said in an interview with CNN.
Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory."
Russian armour rolled into the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali on Friday, RIA news agency quoted a source in the regional Russian military headquarters as saying.
"This was a very blunt Russian aggression. ... We are right now suffering because we want to be free and we want to be a multi-ethnic democracy," Saakashvili said in the interview.
"We are in this situation of self-defence against a big and mighty neighbour. We are a country of less than five million people and certainly our forces are not comparable," the president said.
Saakashvili also said it was in the United States' interest to help his country.
"It's not about Georgia anymore. It's about America, its values," he said. "We are a freedom-loving nation that is right now under attack."
Neither the White House or the Pentagon had any immediate reaction to the situation. The US Defence Department has less than 120 personnel in Georgia. They are involved in training Georgian forces.
Saakashvili said Georgian forces had shot down two Russian aircraft. "One of the aircraft was specifically attacking a civilian hospital wounding doctors and patients with no real purpose," he said.
Saakashvili said he witnessed a Russian air attack - two jets flying very low, looking for "a marketplace in a very busy afternoon, and hitting it, hitting the crowd of people".
Meanwhile, Russia's Defence Ministry said on Friday more than 10 of its troops deployed in South Ossetia have been killed amid a Georgian offensive in the breakaway region, Russian news agencies reported.
"Russian peacekeeping posts have come under fire from Georgian forces," Igor Konashenkov, a spokesperson for the head of Russia's armed forces, was quoted as saying.
"As a result, more than 10 soldiers have been killed and around 30 injured," he said. - Reuters-AFP
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jpegs or it didn't happen.
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We elect guys like dick, mccain, and obama to make those tough calls so we don't have to.
So what is your view regarding the decisons of Obama in hiring 2 people from the Nation of Islam, a Muslim outreach director with ties to the terrorist organization MB, and a REV that preaches hate against whites, and the U.S., not to mention his calls to follow Louis Farrakhan. Do you think those are smart calls?
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So what is your view regarding the decisons of Obama in hiring 2 people from the Nation of Islam, a Muslim outreach director with ties to the terrorist organization MB, and a REV that preaches hate against whites, and the U.S., not to mention his calls to follow Louis Farrakhan. Do you think those are smart calls?
Hell no.
Both candidates' teams are filled with corporate, elitist pricks bent on benefitting the rich, fooling the poor, and ending the middle class.
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b26_1218094003
Here is some of the fighting leading up to things
I have been following this quite closely it looks like it can get messy quick.
Also in that part of the world there is no mercy for captured and hate always runs deep so I am sure it will be cruel.
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So what is your view regarding the decisons of Obama in hiring 2 people from the Nation of Islam, a Muslim outreach director with ties to the terrorist organization MB, and a REV that preaches hate against whites, and the U.S., not to mention his calls to follow Louis Farrakhan. Do you think those are smart calls?
If true, I've got no problems with it. :)
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b26_1218094003
Here is some of the fighting leading up to things
I have been following this quite closely it looks like it can get messy quick.
Also in that part of the world there is no mercy for captured and hate always runs deep so I am sure it will be cruel.
well Ogrish will have a field day
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http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=148263 (http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=148263)
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If true, I've got no problems with it. :)
we know, your 1. poor and 2. black
still not sure why county prisoners get internet access
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we know, your 1. poor and 2. black
still not sure why county prisoners get internet access
He probably sucks a mean guard dick.
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He probably sucks a mean guard dick.
lmfao.
Hey don't we have a resident of GBer that is from Georgia?
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Georgian leader declares 'state of war'
09/08/2008 11:18 - (SA)
Tbilisi - Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said on Saturday the country was officially in a "state of war" after Tbilisi accused Moscow of bombing Georgian civilian areas.
"I have signed a decree on a state of war. Georgia is in a state of total military aggression," Saakashvili told a televised meeting of his national security council
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Georgian leader declares 'state of war'
09/08/2008 11:18 - (SA)
Tbilisi - Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili said on Saturday the country was officially in a "state of war" after Tbilisi accused Moscow of bombing Georgian civilian areas.
"I have signed a decree on a state of war. Georgia is in a state of total military aggression," Saakashvili told a televised meeting of his national security council
Ukraine has already said they support Georgia...let battle commence.
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[...]The USA didn't blindly target Iraqi civilians in their invasion[...]
What?!
First and foremost, it wasn't the "USA" that "blindly" targeted anything, it was the American Armed Forces, which are commanded by some of the most ruthless and most democracy-hating individuals on this planet, and the only thing that keeps them from going to The Hague is that they are our motherfuckers. Second of all, you should see a fundamental error in your argument in that you presuppose a higher importance to targeting civilians rather than invading a sovereign country under the wrong pretenses and intentions.
And yes, our boys killed, kill and will kill innocent civilians, just like any other army, mainly because they are, time after time, put in the wrong place at the wrong time. And war is about death, so I don't understand the crowd that throws their arms up in the air every time they hear some other country "misbehaving" during war times. Well, what didya expect? They do it, we do it, everyone does it. The only difference is that our media EXPLOITS their abuses to death and TOTALLY IGNORES ours.
Complaining about war and death is like complaining about blood in an ass-kicking contest. Or the smell of gasoline at an F1 race.
Turn off the lights and let's get the fuck outta here cause some people are blind by choice.
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Since the U.S. illegally invaded Iraq, they can't say shit without being hypocrites.
You're wrong, we may have invaded Iraq illegally, but since we're already there it's like... we're Americans you know... it's like un-illegalizing, hence legalizing, the invasion.
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Slapper, I don't bother reading your posts. It's not worth it to read nor argue with anyone who has an IQ under 100. I assume you're probably going to try to spin some rogue US soldiers killing civilians into a military-wide conspiracy to target the Iraqi populace. Keep working on that GED though and I may actually read your posts one day.
The military did not blindly target civilians in their initial invasion of Iraq. They eradicated the Iraqi military infrastructure. Russia went straight to killing civilians, and has already killed upwards of a few thousand. In less than 48 hours nonetheless. What some US soldiers do on their accord is of no relation to the Russian government ordering the mass killing of civilians. If you want to play that game, we could talk about the Russian army's approach to thousands upon thousands of mass killings of Chechen women, children and men.
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Already 2,000 people dead thanks to the Russians. An entire city destroyed. What a loving and caring country they are.
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Already 2,000 people dead thanks to the Russians. An entire city destroyed. What a loving and caring country they are.
'shock and awe' was so sexy when we were doing it.
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'shock and awe' was so sexy when we were doing it.
If we carpet bombed Iraq like Russia is doing to a number of Georgian cities, we probably would have been out of there already. :-X
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If we carpet bombed Iraq like Russia is doing to a number of Georgian cities, we probably would have been out of there already. :-X
Are they seriously carpet bombing cities, or is that a slight exaggeration?
i'm sure they're fcking things up... but "carpet bombing" a highly populated civvie areas would equal tens of thousands of deaths.
Are they seriously eradicating square miles of every living thing?
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Are they seriously carpet bombing cities, or is that a slight exaggeration?
i'm sure they're fcking things up... but "carpet bombing" a highly populated civvie areas would equal tens of thousands of deaths.
Are they seriously eradicating square miles of every living thing?
They flattened and completely destroyed an entire city in less than 24 hours. And it was the Russian ambassador who said that, not the Georgians trying to draw sympathy.
It takes some massive bombardment to destroy a city in that short a time span.
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Slapper, I don't bother reading your posts. It's not worth it to read nor argue with anyone who has an IQ under 100. I assume you're probably going to try to spin some rogue US soldiers killing civilians into a military-wide conspiracy to target the Iraqi populace. Keep working on that GED though and I may actually read your posts one day.
The military did not blindly target civilians in their initial invasion of Iraq. They eradicated the Iraqi military infrastructure. Russia went straight to killing civilians, and has already killed upwards of a few thousand. In less than 48 hours nonetheless. What some US soldiers do on their accord is of no relation to the Russian government ordering the mass killing of civilians. If you want to play that game, we could talk about the Russian army's approach to thousands upon thousands of mass killings of Chechen women, children and men.
Well, I'm not asking you to read my posts. If you do, and actualy respond, please do so with a little more regard for the truth, using facts, not the first "patriotic" brain fart that makes it past your left testicle (en route to your brain, but I guess your reasoning runs out of gas on the way to the brain).
First and foremost, let say that the Russian armed forces are amongst the most ruthless killers in the world, I'll give you that. I'll also say that I get my news from other sources outside of the US and let's just say that I know a different version of what our armed forces do. I'll end this paragraph by saying that I'm slowly getting a clearer picture of what goes on in our armed forces and I'm coming to the conclusion that 99.99% of the soldiers are only following orders, and that the real killers, the ones who comit real crimes agains humanity, are Americans nonetheless.
We can look at the Iraqui war if you'd like, although we've set the precedent as to how to attack and kill civilians en masse: Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which I presume you and the US media would've dubbed a "surgically precise" shot... in a very Rumsfelian way of course. But let's talk about the invasion of Iraq, since it's the war you were referring to. Even before a bomb was dropped, even before the invasion, we were targetting civilians. Look at the Iraq sanctions that our government so much-touted as the way to go in order to get rid of Sadam: and estimated 350,000-500,000 CHILDREN (http://www.globalpolicy.org/) killed either by starvation or lack of medicines.
This is a fact corroborated by even US officials and OF COURSE appeared in the major media outlets thousands of times... NOT!!!!! The sanctions were a complete and utter GENOCIDE, sponsored by us, the Americans, who, by the way, used to keep the money made by selling the Iraqui oil for food program, take a huge cut (in the order of 35 to 50%) and buy food and medicine to be sent to Iraq. That is the real story. What did the US media show? The 3 or 4 UN crooks who bought and sold Iraqui oil for a "cut" of the profits. This story was blown up to incredible proportions, while the 500,000 infant deaths got NO media attention. Some "fair" media we have huh? >:( >:( >:(
You can dishonestly make the point that the US-sponsored sanctions did not intentionally target Iraqui civilians, but if you do I will reply by asking you to provide me with ONE "bad guy" that was ever taken out by (our) economic sanctions. Just one. Furthermore, US officials well were aware of the effect the sactions were having on the Iraqui infants and they decided to keep the sanctions even though countries like France and Germany were questioning their effectiveness, WITH ACTUAL PHYSICAL PROOF, although I guess you need Colin Powell to make the case...
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They flattened and completely destroyed an entire city in less than 24 hours. And it was the Russian ambassador who said that, not the Georgians trying to draw sympathy.
It takes some massive bombardment to destroy a city in that short a time span.
holy crap, that's some serious damage. in that case, there will be a lot more than 2000 dead.
I guess the US can't really criticize them. I mean, we can, because their evil shit is a little more evil than our evil shit, but we don't really have a ground to stand on. it's like the guy who killed one wife chastising the guy who killed two wives.
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Well, I'm not asking you to read my posts. If you do, and actualy respond, please do so with a little more regard for the truth, using facts, not the first "patriotic" brain fart that makes it past your left testicle (en route to your brain, but I guess your reasoning runs out of gas on the way to the brain).
First and foremost, let say that the Russian armed forces are amongst the most ruthless killers in the world, I'll give you that. I'll also say that I get my news from other sources outside of the US and let's just say that I know a different version of what our armed forces do. I'll end this paragraph by saying that I'm slowly getting a clearer picture of what goes on in our armed forces and I'm coming to the conclusion that 99.99% of the soldiers are only following orders, and that the real killers, the ones who comit real crimes agains humanity, are Americans nonetheless.
We can look at the Iraqui war if you'd like, although we've set the precedent as to how to attack and kill civilians en masse: Hiroshima and Nagasaki, which I presume you and the US media would've dubbed a "surgically precise" shot... in a very Rumsfelian way of course. But let's talk about the invasion of Iraq, since it's the war you were referring to. Even before a bomb was dropped, even before the invasion, we were targetting civilians. Look at the Iraq sanctions that our government so much-touted as the way to go in order to get rid of Sadam: and estimated 350,000-500,000 CHILDREN (http://www.globalpolicy.org/) killed either by starvation or lack of medicines.
This is a fact corroborated by even US officials and OF COURSE appeared in the major media outlets thousands of times... NOT!!!!! The sanctions were a complete and utter GENOCIDE, sponsored by us, the Americans, who, by the way, used to keep the money made by selling the Iraqui oil for food program, take a huge cut (in the order of 35 to 50%) and buy food and medicine to be sent to Iraq. That is the real story. What did the US media show? The 3 or 4 UN crooks who bought and sold Iraqui oil for a "cut" of the profits. This story was blown up to incredible proportions, while the 500,000 infant deaths got NO media attention. Some "fair" media we have huh? >:( >:( >:(
You can dishonestly make the point that the US-sponsored sanctions did not intentionally target Iraqui civilians, but if you do I will reply by asking you to provide me with ONE "bad guy" that was ever taken out by (our) economic sanctions. Just one. Furthermore, US officials well were aware of the effect the sactions were having on the Iraqui infants and they decided to keep the sanctions even though countries like France and Germany were questioning their effectiveness, WITH ACTUAL PHYSICAL PROOF, although I guess you need Colin Powell to make the case...
You know, a lot of people get their information from outside the U.S. There's this thing called the internet. It works wonders. It let's you read information from all over the planet from the sanctity of your own home. You know, sites that are established in other countries? Wonderful technology it is.
Secondly, I didn't make my comments to cast the U.S. in the light of an angel. I made them to point out the fact that the other superpowers out there are no better than us, and in most cases, much worse. If you want to talk about sanctions and civilian attacks, just look at Chechnya. Some of the atrocities carried out there by both sides make Iraq look like a joke. For every story of American soldiers killing a few Iraqi civilians, there are dozens upon dozens of Russians rounding up Chechen civilians and flat out killing them. Along with Chechen rebels targeting civilians every chance they get.
We can look to China for their oppressive approach to anything that isn't Chinese like Tibet, minorities in the west, etc.
I'm not even going to bother going to the Indian wars because at that time, the rest of the world was pulling the same shit. Europeans and Asians were slaughtering people all over the planet. That was a violent time period.
And I'm not going to address the atomic bomb shit either. That argument can go both ways and be debated for months.
holy crap, that's some serious damage. in that case, there will be a lot more than 2000 dead.
I guess the US can't really criticize them. I mean, we can, because their evil shit is a little more evil than our evil shit, but we don't really have a ground to stand on. it's like the guy who killed one wife chastising the guy who killed two wives.
Nah, we can't. The only reason I'm chiding it so much is because a few guys like Deicide on here have said and implied that the world would be a much better place if the USA pulled out of all of its foreign bases. Can you imagine what it would be like if Russia and China had free reign over everything? There would be a new war a week.
They used the excuses that they were "protecting" their peace keeping forces in South Ossetia as a reason to invade and destroy an entire city and lay waste to a country. They were building up forces at the boarder for months and just waiting for the opportunity.
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What I'm saying with all of this, and this ALL OF YOU KNOW ALREADY, is that the US media is using us, presenting the case that Russia is indiscriminately targetting civilians, with huge headlines like "The Whole World is Asking the Russians to Stop". Well, is it true? NOOOOOOO! In truth the EU is still in meetings talking about a consensed response to the Russian attack. That I know of, the attack has received limited negative response.
So all in all, what is the 30,000-foot view of what's going on? Well, Bush is stepping down, his human rights record is beyond irreparable, but he's somehow preparing a campaign to make it seem otherwise (with the illicit help of the media of course). I mean, did you hear him talking about how he was going to tell the Chinese to respect the Tibetans as soon as he stepped off the plane? Imagine this redneck telling Hu Jintao to respect Tibetan rebels right after signing a bill that exonerates pretty much the biggest criminals in human history from any jail time? I can just see the Chinese going "cracker please! Get your ass back on Anal Force One and go back to farting hot dogs in Crawford!".
With this I'm not saying that the Russian army is not committing acts of aggression against Georgian civilians, in fact I'm saying the opposite. Let's just clarify that Russian aggression has been going on for a loooooong time, with our consent of course.
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What I'm saying with all of this, and this ALL OF YOU KNOW ALREADY, is that the US media is using us, presenting the case that Russia is indiscrimenantly targetting civilians, with huge headlines like "The Whole World is Asking the Russians to Stop". Well, is it true? NOOOOOOO! In truth the EU is still in meetings talking about a consensed response to the Russian attack. That I know of, the attack has received limited negative response.
So all in all, what is the 30,000-foot view of what's going on? Well, Bush is stepping down, his human rights record is beyond irreparable, but he's somehow preparing a campaign to make it seem otherwise (with the illicit help of the media of course). I mean, did you hear him talking about how he was going to tell the Chinese to respect the Tibetans as soon as he stepped off the plane? Imagine this redneck telling Hu Jintao to respect Tibetan rebels right after signing a bill that exonerates pretty much the biggest criminals in human history from any jail time? I can just see the Chinese going "cracker please! Get your ass back on Anal Force One and go back to farting hot dogs in Crawford!".
The Russian ambassador to Georgia himself said that the entire city was destroyed. The leaders of Georgia have come on and said that Russia has been targeting civilian towns with no military standing and actually moved into other areas outside of South Ossetia.
You may think you're privy to some type of classified information, but you're not. Facts are facts. So are pictures of the city looking pretty destroyed.
2,000+ civilians dead in less than 24 hours. And that was Russia's Newsfax agency that gave that number.
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b89_1218230892
Georgean fighter shot down, some artillary and some rockets
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=df7_1218233449
Russian tanks
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The Russian ambassador to Georgia himself said that the entire city was destroyed. The leaders of Georgia have come on and said that Russia has been targeting civilian towns with no military standing and actually moved into other areas outside of South Ossetia.
You may think you're privy to some type of classified information, but you're not. Facts are facts. So are pictures of the city looking pretty destroyed.
2,000+ civilians dead in less than 24 hours. And that was Russia's Newsfax agency that gave that number.
Look, I'm not saying otherwise, I'm not saying that the Russians are not targetting civilians, all I'm asking is that we step back and let international media inform us what the fuck is going on. If you think what the Russians have done to South Ossetia is bad, you should take a look at what they did to Chechnya.
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Look, I'm not saying otherwise, I'm not saying that the Russians are not targetting civilians, all I'm asking is that we step back and let international media inform us what the fuck is going on. If you think what the Russians have done to South Ossetia is bad, you should take a look at what they did to Chechnya.
There is a different set of rules in Eastern Europe.
It is like Africa it is not a different continent but a different world with its own set of rules.
With Chechnya the first time the Rushkies went in they got it all wrong and the Chechen's were incredably cruel to all the Russian prisoners they took.
With Castration being one of the standard practices for any red army guy caught alive by the Chechen's.
The second time the Russians went in there was no mercy.
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There is a different set of rules in Eastern Europe.
It is like Africa it is not a different continent but a different world with its own set of rules.
With Chechnya the first time the Rushkies went in they got it all wrong and the Chechen's were incredably cruel to all the Russian prisoners they took.
With Castration being one of the standard practices for any red army guy caught alive by the Chechen's.
The second time the Russians went in there was no mercy.
oh for fucks sake get a clue ::)
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You know, a lot of people get their information from outside the U.S. There's this thing called the internet. It works wonders. It let's you read information from all over the planet from the sanctity of your own home. You know, sites that are established in other countries? Wonderful technology it is.
Secondly, I didn't make my comments to cast the U.S. in the light of an angel. I made them to point out the fact that the other superpowers out there are no better than us, and in most cases, much worse. If you want to talk about sanctions and civilian attacks, just look at Chechnya. Some of the atrocities carried out there by both sides make Iraq look like a joke. For every story of American soldiers killing a few Iraqi civilians, there are dozens upon dozens of Russians rounding up Chechen civilians and flat out killing them. Along with Chechen rebels targeting civilians every chance they get.
We can look to China for their oppressive approach to anything that isn't Chinese like Tibet, minorities in the west, etc.
I'm not even going to bother going to the Indian wars because at that time, the rest of the world was pulling the same shit. Europeans and Asians were slaughtering people all over the planet. That was a violent time period.
And I'm not going to address the atomic bomb shit either. That argument can go both ways and be debated for months.
Well, the argument can go either way if you're blind and mute. Our president made a decision to kill as many Japanese civilians and that's that. There's no pretty way of looking at it. And yes, the Japanese commanders made the same decision, although on a much smaller scale and MAINLY, 95% of the time I'd say, targetting military installations (like Pearl Harbor).
Then again I'm not the one that said that our gringos "[...]didn't blindly target Iraqi civilians[...]".
It just amazes me how all of a sudden, due to media scaling up their coverage of a certain conflict (undoubtedly to hide some domestic problem or due to Big Business asking them to,) everyone's mood gets aggressive and shit, when these conflicts, and much worse, are going on TODAY on other parts of the world. Then again, other parts of the world do not have a huge pipeline running through their territory... like the Caspian Sea area does.
Understand who is making all the noise and why now?
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I WOULDN'T TRUST FOR ONE FUCKING SECOND WHAT IS GOING TO BE SAID BY ABC, NBC OR CNN TONIGHT.
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Well, the argument can go either way if you're blind and mute. Our president made a decision to kill as many Japanese civilians and that's that. There's no pretty way of looking at it. And yes, the Japanese commanders made the same decision, although on a much smaller scale and MAINLY, 95% of the time I'd say, targetting military installations (like Pearl Harbor).
Then again I'm not the one that said that our gringos "[...]didn't blindly target Iraqi civilians[...]".
It just amazes me how all of a sudden, due to media scaling up their coverage of a certain conflict (undoubtedly to hide some domestic problem or due to Big Business asking them to,) everyone's mood gets aggressive and shit, when these conflicts, and much worse, are going on TODAY on other parts of the world. Then again, other parts of the world do not have a huge pipeline running through their territory... like the Caspian Sea area does.
Understand who is making all the noise and why now?
It goes both ways if you're not a retard with a GED as his highest level of education. Guess that rules you out. An invasion of mainland Japan estimated that there was a strong possibility that 500,000+ American soldiers would die. Japan is a culture built on honor and pride. They would not just roll over and die. Both sides were weighed and the bombs were dropped. Japan didn't surrender after the first one, thus they brought the second one on themselves.
You have THE shittiest reading comprehension I have ever seen by the way. Keep proving that you possess the education of a child. You can't even decipher a post, let alone prove a point.
Then again, you're the same retard that justified terrorists launching 2,000 rockets and mortars at civilians over the course of six months with Israel.
Go ahead and act like you're privy to classified information again. I love that line on here. ::)
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I wonder if this puts a dent on Obama's plans to take Russia's nukes away from them?
"I promise to get rid of all nuclear material when elected President"
keep dreaming
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e72_1218295422
A Russian bombing run with stunned and hurt civilians afterwards
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It goes both ways if you're not a retard with a GED as his highest level of education. Guess that rules you out.
That's your ass doing the talking right?! I'm asking because sometimes I can't tell the difference.
An invasion of mainland Japan estimated that there was a strong possibility that 500,000+ American soldiers would die.
Right, and we murder 500,000 Japanese instead. Logical thinking at its best! Outright genocide based on "estimates" or "strong posibilities". Sounds like the "mushroom cloud" theory from Ms Rice. Bunch of shit then, bunch of shit now.
Japan is a culture built on honor and pride. They would not just roll over and die. Both sides were weighed and the bombs were dropped. Japan didn't surrender after the first one, thus they brought the second one on themselves.
Actually the intention was to drop 3 a-bombs. My understanding is that one is somewhere in the middle of the Pacific, presumably to be used on Tokyo but dropped in the sea because, aledgedly, the pilots of the planes had learned what had happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and basically said "fuck this shit!". That's what a human being is supposed to do anyways.
You have THE shittiest reading comprehension I have ever seen by the way. Keep proving that you possess the education of a child. You can't even decipher a post, let alone prove a point.
Dude, you keep referring to my education as though it is something that really bothers you. And it's probably because you're the one with a GED education and reading comprehension of a extreme ADD third grader.
Then again, you're the same retard that justified terrorists launching 2,000 rockets and mortars at civilians over the course of six months with Israel. Go ahead and act like you're privy to classified information again. I love that line on here. ::)
:o :o
Walk toward light Berzerk!! Walk toward light!! Is it the voices in your head that are telling you to say dumb shit?
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e72_1218295422
A Russian bombing run with stunned and hurt civilians afterwards
Just shows how naive Obama is thinking that he is going to make world peace and take countries weapons away.
His statements regarding this matter looked like something a stupid bystander would say "they need to talk it out"
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What a contrast to our "surgically" precise warfare!
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What?!
First and foremost, it wasn't the "USA" that "blindly" targeted anything, it was the American Armed Forces, which are commanded by some of the most ruthless and most democracy-hating individuals on this planet, and the only thing that keeps them from going to The Hague is that they are our motherfuckers. Second of all, you should see a fundamental error in your argument in that you presuppose a higher importance to targeting civilians rather than invading a sovereign country under the wrong pretenses and intentions.
And yes, our boys killed, kill and will kill innocent civilians, just like any other army, mainly because they are, time after time, put in the wrong place at the wrong time. And war is about death, so I don't understand the crowd that throws their arms up in the air every time they hear some other country "misbehaving" during war times. Well, what didya expect? They do it, we do it, everyone does it. The only difference is that our media EXPLOITS their abuses to death and TOTALLY IGNORES ours.
Complaining about war and death is like complaining about blood in an ass-kicking contest. Or the smell of gasoline at an F1 race.
Turn off the lights and let's get the fuck outta here cause some people are blind by choice.
which are commanded by some of the most ruthless and most democracy-hating individuals on this planet, and the only thing that keeps them from going to The Hague is that they are our motherfuckers
I guess thats me shitbag because I commanded an Armor company during the push to Bagdad,as well as troops in Afghanistan...and let me tell u, u who has been nowhere and done nothing, never served,never been to those countries, u have ZERO idea about what ur talking about and u have NO secret sources who are telling u we're "murdering" civilians....u have no idea so whats going on in Iraq, Georgia..ur ass or anywhere.
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which are commanded by some of the most ruthless and most democracy-hating individuals on this planet, and the only thing that keeps them from going to The Hague is that they are our motherfuckers
I guess thats me shitbag because I commanded an Armor company during the push to Bagdad,as well as troops in Afghanistan...and let me tell u, u who has been nowhere and done nothing, never served,never been to those countries, u have ZERO idea about what ur talking about and u have NO secret sources who are telling u we're "murdering" civilians....u have no idea so whats going on in Iraq, Georgia..ur ass or anywhere.
That secret sources bullshit story that you and Bezerk are talking about is just that: bullshit. Unless you're referring to non-American media as a "secret" source... then yeah, I have my secret sources. What I'm talking about has been well-publicized and is no secret to anyone who OPENS A BOOK once in a while.
As far as you being a commander, when I said that the real bad decisions by our armed forces is done high up, I didn't mean you, I meant reeeeeeaaaally high up. You're not even close. The only thing you get to decide on is how to follow the orders that have just been given to you, like how to get all the personel under you from point A to point B. I'm talking about the crowd that decides that you will be snatched away from your family, put in the middle of a land you are not welcomed in while you watch much better armed American civilians in bulletproof vests drive air-conditioned SUVs and making 5 times what you're making. THAT crowd. Capisci?