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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Benny B on August 12, 2008, 02:55:28 AM
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US left with little influence in Georgia crisis
13 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) — Washington has little room for maneuver in the Caucasus conflict amid perceptions that it helped fuel the crisis by over-inflating Georgia's hopes of US support for its young democracy, analysts say.
"This is probably a conflict where the United States would not be accepted by both sides as a mediator," said analyst Steven Pifer, a former US ambassador in Kiev.
"The Georgians would welcome American participation. I suspect the Russians would probably not accept us because in Moscow, we are seen as too close to Georgia," added the analyst from the Brookings Institute.
US President George W. Bush Monday condemned the Russian military offensive against Georgia, triggered after Tbilisi sent troops into the pro-Moscow rebel region of South Ossetia seeking to regain control from the separatists.
"I said this violence is unacceptable," Bush told US broadcaster NBC. "I expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we strongly condemn bombing outside of South Ossetia."
But Bush is acutely aware that Washington needs Moscow's support on several key outstanding international dossiers including the crisis over Iran's suspect nuclear program and moves to denuclearize North Korea.
In a plaintive reminder to the United States of its support for his 2003 Rose Revolution, Georgia's staunchly pro-Western President Mikheil Saakashvili sought to remind his ally of how far Tbilisi has come in the past few years.
"No country of the former Soviet Union has made more progress toward consolidating democracy, eradicating corruption and building an independent foreign policy than Georgia," he wrote Monday in the Wall Street Journal.
"This conflict is therefore about our common trans-Atlantic values of liberty and democracy," wrote the Georgian leader.
The most charismatic of the Rose Revolution leaders who ousted veteran leader and former Soviet foreign minister Eduard Shevardnadze, the US-educated Saakashvili swept to the presidency in early 2004 on a wave of popular support.
His efforts to implement sweeping free-market reforms won high praise from the West, including Bush, who hailed Georgia as "a beacon of democracy" during a 2005 visit to Tbilisi.
The United States is now seeking to win backing for a strongly worded UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire.
The resolution would also demand a return to the status quo before Georgia sent forces into its breakaway South Ossetia enclave.
But with Moscow holding a power of veto in the Security Council there is little chance that it will pass a resolution strongly criticizing its own actions, and discussions have been deadlocked for days.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has also been noticeably absent on the diplomatic scene, having failed to interrupt her holidays to fly to Tbilisi in support of the Georgian government.
Instead senior State Department official, Matthew Bryza, who oversees the Caucasus region was sent, two days later than planned, to join a joint EU-US mediation effort to win a ceasefire.
French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, who is leading the mediation mission for the EU, said Monday the United States was "in a sense part of the conflict," between Russia and Georgia.
"You talk about the Americans, of course they are in a sense part of the conflict, that is why we must emphasise the presence and the strength of the European Union," Kouchner told French radio.
But State Department deputy spokesman Robert Wood sought Monday to dismiss the notion that the US was relatively powerless in face of the escalating conflict.
"We and the Europeans have leverage ... The Russians know how seriously we take the situation," he said.
"The US relations with Russia is of course a complicated one, but certainly Russia understands where we are on this conflict, where the European Union is on this conflict and we expect and hope that Russia will heed the call of the International community to stop the bombings, to agree to an immediate ceasefire and to have discussions with Georgia."
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so the republican congress will melt down and do the big public stunt to protest the dem congress going on their scheduled vacation...
but...
our secretary of state, who has prided her whole career on her giant grasp of Russia (doesn't she have a degree in it?) cannot be bothered to cut her vacation short when Russia is putting missiles into a vital oil pipeline and will likely install a puppet regime by week's end to take the oil permanently...
Nice!
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Barry O was in Hawaii...and the prez was in china..and john edwards--well, we know where he was---guess dems and repubs have other things to do...
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Barry O was in Hawaii...and the prez was in china..and john edwards--well, we know where he was---guess dems and repubs have other things to do...
barry O is a senator, on vacation like the other 99 of them.
One would think Prez Bush and Condi (sec of state) might try to set the bar a little higher. Nah.
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barry o is the presumptive democratic nominee for president...--99 of the others didn't rumble through europe on speaking tours...
he's NOT like 99 of the others--
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barry o is the presumptive democratic nominee for president...--99 of the others didn't rumble through europe on speaking tours...
he's NOT like 99 of the others--
So you're saying he was RIGHT in acting like President on his recent Euro tour?
many have said he was WRONG for doing so. But they're also saying he's WRONG for not doing something above senator-level for this Russia thing.
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Nope..I thought he did the right thing in europe..he went out there and basically said..i'm the man to beat--ballsy, leaderlike move on his party---if you are going to take the mantle--take it everytime and not just once in a while--
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Nope..I thought he did the right thing in europe..he went out there and basically said..i'm the man to beat--ballsy, leaderlike move on his party---if you are going to take the mantle--take it everytime and not just once in a while--
He didn't say 'I'm the man to beat', ...on the contrary, he said 'I'm the man to vote for'. There's a difference. :)
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Nope..I thought he did the right thing in europe..he went out there and basically said..i'm the man to beat--ballsy, leaderlike move on his party---if you are going to take the mantle--take it everytime and not just once in a while--
He did take a few risks... the whole thing could have backfired in a HUGE way. It didn't. You had repubs complainaing because - after the pentagon admitted it interfered in some manner - Obama didn't visit troops a SECOND time. It was a success.
He's either going to win big, or lose big.
Then he'll either be a spectacular president and change things big time, or he'll make a nice mess o things lol... but a risk taker he be!
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B. Hussein is body surfing in Hawaii during the Georgia crisis.
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He didn't say 'I'm the man to beat', ...on the contrary, he said 'I'm the man to vote for'. There's a difference. :)
I meant by actions he said he is the man to beat...stop nitpicking words. there really isn't a difference. He's the frontrunner...he knows it---no one who is the underdog can waltz into berlin and speak to 200k people---my guess is that john mccain couldn't do that...
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B. Hussein is body surfing in Hawaii during the Georgia crisis.
Hopefully 71 is staying busy this week.
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You've got to hand to the Bushies.
They don't let anything get in the way of their vacations
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I don't get it.
So what?
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B. Hussein played basketball at Punahou today during the Georgia crisis.
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B. Hussein played basketball at Punahou today during the Georgia crisis.
so what - he's a candidate and not Secretary of State
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Barry O was in Hawaii...and the prez was in china..and john edwards--well, we know where he was---guess dems and repubs have other things to do...
LOL... Congrats... Most clueless award goes to you.
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B. Hussein is body surfing in Hawaii during the Georgia crisis.
Congrats, you've tied for the most clueless award. I'll have to hack saw it in half, hope you two clowns don't mind sharing.
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Tonight, during the Georgia crisis, B. Hussein will be attending a fundraising dinner at the Kahala Hotel & Resort charging $2,300 to $10,000 per person.
I'm going to pass on this one.
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Tonight, during the Georgia crisis, B. Hussein will be attending a fundraising dinner at the Kahala Hotel & Resort charging $2,300 to $10,000 per person.
I'm going to pass on this one.
What did you want him to do, call in airstrikes ::) He made his opinion known, same as McCain except McCain went much further acting like he is the president. Get a Clue, This is for the current administration to handle. Basically you're looking past Condi being MIA to Obama... Yea, you won a clueless award pal.
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What did you want him to do, call in airstrikes ::) He made his opinion known, same as McCain except McCain went much further acting like he is the president. Get a Clue, This is for the current administration to handle. Basically you're looking past Condi being MIA to Obama... Yea, you won a clueless award pal.
No, I don't expect him to interrupt his body surfing, basketball, and outrageously expensive fundraising dinner to do anything about the Georgia crisis. He's likely not going to be president anyway. He should just continue to enjoy his rock star status and the perfect weather we've been having lately.
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Tonight, during the Georgia crisis, B. Hussein will be attending a fundraising dinner at the Kahala Hotel & Resort charging $2,300 to $10,000 per person.
I'm going to pass on this one.
The more I learn about you, the more I like you man!
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Maybe I should start playing the "real name" game with douche Mark.... looks like fun.
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What did you want him to do, call in airstrikes ::) He made his opinion known, same as McCain except McCain went much further acting like he is the president. Get a Clue, This is for the current administration to handle. Basically you're looking past Condi being MIA to Obama... Yea, you won a clueless award pal.
he had no problem prancing around europe to promote his campaign maybe he should do the same now to help this situation.
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he had no problem prancing around europe to promote his campaign maybe he should do the same now to help this situation.
If he tried to help that would be the wrong thing to do. very bad.
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No, I don't expect him to interrupt his body surfing, basketball, and outrageously expensive fundraising dinner to do anything about the Georgia crisis. He's likely not going to be president anyway. He should just continue to enjoy his rock star status and the perfect weather we've been having lately.
That you would suggest it's either McCain's or Obama's role is amazing. That you would bring it up as a defense for Condi is totally amazing.
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Wow, stop and think about this, What hypocrites... Obama was denounced because he dared to go around and talk to world leaders while he's running for office. They said how irresponsible it was to talk with Iraqi leadership and said he had no business metaling in eras of Bush's responsibility. Now when this happens, Obama speaks on the issue but McCain grabs the sabers like he's one of the three musketeers but it's ok for McCain where as Obama held his comments within the bounds of being a candidate, while McCain made policy decisions to be carried out "when" takes office...
Wow, really, wow, you fuckers have breached the height of hypocrisy.
congrats...
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Wow, stop and think about this, What hypocrites... Obama was denounced because he dared to go around and talk to world leaders while he's running for office. They said how irresponsible it was to talk with Iraqi leadership and said he had no business metaling in eras of Bush's responsibility. Now when this happens, Obama speaks on the issue but McCain grabs the sabers like he's one of the three musketeers but it's ok for McCain where as Obama held his comments within the bounds of being a candidate, while McCain made policy decisions to be carried out if "when" takes office...
Wow, really, wow, you fuckers have breached the height of hypocrisy.
congrats...
Its a lame double standard sued by very desperate people trying everything they can to discredit Obama. Pathetic really.
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Its a lame double standard sued by very desperate people trying everything they can to discredit Obama. Pathetic really.
yeah, we're 11 weeks from the election a crazy pastor and 'only visited troops once, not twice' are the major bitching points.
Mccain, on the other hand, supports a failing economic policy.
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yeah, we're 11 weeks from the election a crazy pastor and 'only visited troops once, not twice' are the major bitching points.
Mccain, on the other hand, supports a failing economic policy.
Yeah, it's the most unreal thing. It seams every main stream conservative on thins board has one out of their way to nit pick Obama to the point of ridiculousness. Even to the point of posting low grade propaganda.
I mean what the hell?
Is McCain that bad that you have nothing good to say about him and instead take petty shots at his rival?????
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That you would suggest it's either McCain's or Obama's role is amazing. That you would bring it up as a defense for Condi is totally amazing.
That you would think Condi needs to be defended is not so amazing.
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That you would think Condi needs to be defended is not so amazing.
Isn't this supposedly her area of expertise? ???
One would think she'd at least be whispering in the pResident's ear or something... ya know... telling him what to say.
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Isn't this supposedly her area of expertise? ???
One would think she'd at least be whispering in the pResident's ear or something... ya know... telling him what to say.
How do you know she hasn't?
And how dare the president attend the Olympics during the Georgia crisis.
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That you would think Condi needs to be defended is not so amazing.
I said Condi needs to be defended? Are you high?
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I said Condi needs to be defended? Are you high?
no, he's just stupid
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I said Condi needs to be defended? Are you high?
1. Yes. 2. No. 3. Are you drunk?
That you would suggest it's either McCain's or Obama's role is amazing. That you would bring it up as a defense for Condi is totally amazing.
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1. Yes. 2. No. 3. Are you drunk?
That's not me saying condi needs defended ::) That's me pointing out the fact that you used Obama to reply in a thread that was about Condi being MIA. You're right, it's not you defending Condi, but it is one of the most clueless red herrings I've seen.
Not drunk tonight but I was a couple nights back.
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That's not me saying condi needs defended ::) That's me pointing out the fact that you used Obama to reply in a thread that was about Condi being MIA. You're right, it's not you defending Condi, but it is one of the most clueless red herrings I've seen.
Not drunk tonight but I was a couple nights back.
I wasn't defending Condi. She doesn't need to be defended. You saying I was trying to defend Condi is the red herring.
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I wasn't defending Condi. She doesn't need to be defended. You saying I was trying to defend Condi is the red herring.
can you read? Try re-reading my last post.
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can you read? Try re-reading my last post.
Can you understand your own posts? You're the one who said "That you would bring it up as a defense for Condi is totally amazing."
I didn't bring anything up as a "defense for Condi." Your statement was a red herring.