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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Butterbean on August 21, 2008, 10:16:40 AM
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Big Russian flotilla led by Admiral Kuznetsov carrier heads for Syrian port
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
August 21, 2008, 9:17 AM (GMT+02:00)
(http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5526)
Russia's Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier heads for Mediterranean
As the West awaits Moscow’s threatened reprisal for the treaty installing American missile interceptors at Redzikowo, on Poland’s Baltic coast – signed in Warsaw Wednesday - the Kremlin is striking back in the Middle East – hence Russian president Dimitry Medvedev’s honeyed words of reassurance to Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert in a call he made to Jerusalem Wednesday, Aug. 20.
DEBKAfile’s military sources disclose that a powerful Russian naval contingent, led by the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov , left Murmansk on the Barents Sea Aug. 18 to dock at the Syrian Mediterranean port of Tartus Saturday, Aug. 23. It includes the Russian Navy’s biggest missile cruiser Moskva and at least four nuclear missile submarines.
At the Black Sea resort of Sochi, Syrian president Bashar Assad told reporters Thursday, Aug. 21, that he is considering a Russian request to deploy missiles in his country in view of Russian-Western tensions over the Georgian conflict, which he said had polarized East and West anew.
Assad signaled he would also be representing Tehran’s interests in his talks with Russian leaders. Jordan’s King Abdullah is on his way to join them later in the day.
Before the Russian flotilla departed Murmansk, Assad is reported by our sources as having given the nod for Tartus port’s conversion into a permanent Middle East base for Russia’s nuclear-armed warships.
Assad’s arrival coincided with a visit by a large Syrian military delegation Thursday at the Russian weapons manufacturing giant, the Kalinin Machines Plant, east of Moscow. DEBKAfile’s military sources report that this plant makes sophisticated anti-air missile systems, including the S-300 and the BUK M, for which Damascus is bidding.
The Syrian ruler has said he is seeking closer military cooperation with Russia. The deal emerging from his visit is expected to cover the Russian Navy’s use of Tartus in return for a mutual defense accord providing Syria with a Russian nuclear umbrella and generous terms for his arms purchases.
Aug. 17, DEBKAfile first revealed Russia’s planned nuclear military deployments in the Middle East and Baltic to punish America for its missile deal with Poland and Georgia's attack in South Ossetia. They would included the installation of Iskandar surface missiles in Syria and Kaliningrad.
To read the original article: http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5513
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I fucking knew this business would get out of hand... Here it comes...
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Russian flotilla? HAHAHAHA
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Russian flotilla? HAHAHAHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flotilla
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lol i know what a flotilla is........
I'm laughing at the Russian show of force.
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lol i know what a flotilla is........
I'm laughing at the Russian show of force.
watch how much Israel laughs when Russia starts moving nukes and anti missile systems only a short distance from Israel. I may be wrong but I'm betting we'll shortly hear parallels from Israel to the Cuban Missile Crisis. They're talking about setting up a base in Syria, don't you think that's not going to sit very well... nope...
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watch how much Israel laughs when Russia starts moving nukes and anti missile systems only a short distance from Israel. I may be wrong but I'm betting we'll shortly hear parallels from Israel to the Cuban Missile Crisis. They're talking about setting up a base in Syria, don't you think that's not going to sit very well... nope...
Would be quite a move by the Russians. but i don't think it will happen
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I thought syria's navy was a fleet of sardine boats.
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I thought syria's navy was a fleet of sardine boats.
lol
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Would be quite a move by the Russians. but i don't think it will happen
If Syria says yea and it looks like they are, don't think for a second that Russia, in light of what we've just done, isn't going to do exactly this. The 4 nuclear missile subs headed there now will be enough to have a meltdown over.
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this actually works well for the world..it's basically balances the power in the middle east...maybe iran forgets about having nukes..and israel forgets about dropping them on iran because they'd find themselves in a world of glass if they did...sort of like the mutually assured destruction idea that went on during the cold war--i'm not seeing an issue with this at all.
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this actually works well for the world..it's basically balances the power in the middle east...maybe iran forgets about having nukes..and israel forgets about dropping them on iran because they'd find themselves in a world of glass if they did...sort of like the mutually assured destruction idea that went on during the cold war--i'm not seeing an issue with this at all.
I like your thinking on it. I'm not sure it's worth "not seeing an issue with" There's much more going on that brings this about that can't be disgarded. But I like your balance of power thinking.
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If Syria says yea and it looks like they are, don't think for a second that Russia, in light of what we've just done, isn't going to do exactly this. The 4 nuclear missile subs headed there now will be enough to have a meltdown over.
wow. well if it happens, like Rocky said, there will be benefits, but there will also be a potential for a larger war.
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and don't believe for one minute the military or the goverment doesn't want something like this...situations like these drive what eisenhower called the military industrial complex...defense contracts..missile defense shields..more money for pet projects of the military and the defense industry...lots of money to be made by all sides.
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and don't believe for one minute the military or the goverment doesn't want something like this...situations like these drive what eisenhower called the military industrial complex...defense contracts..missile defense shields..more money for pet projects of the military and the defense industry...lots of money to be made by all sides.
boooooomm!!!! That is a huge part of the play. good post. It could be argued that Russia's interest in this isn't nearly as motivivated by the "industry" as ours is. Russia's play here is a response that wouldn't have happened without our goating. and again, I'll point out that I don't believe these are the only factors for consideration. There's a lot of shit in play that brings this about. But your post is right on at least on some level.
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Ahh yes....possibly another cold war..... >:(
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Ahh yes....possibly another cold war..... >:(
the neocons glory era, they missed it dearly ;D
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the neocons glory era, they missed it dearly ;D
McCain is fixing to take office, nothing will be missed...only relished.
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McCain is fixing to take office, nothing will be missed...only relished.
I'm sure I can't disagree. ::)
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another note: If this is true and this is one hell of a story to pull out of nowhere so at this point I'm guessing there is truth to this story, this is a major devolopment. Why has not one peep of this been uttered on any American media... hmmmm....
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let's see what tough guy georgie porgie does now. hahahaaaaaaaa
maybe read My Pet Goat 2 ? ;D
NT
lmao!!! lol...
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Russia eyes new Syria arms deal
Page last updated at 22:34 GMT, Thursday, 21 August 2008 23:34 UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7574311.stm
Syria was a close ally of the Soviet Union during the Cold War
Moscow has announced it is ready to sell new weapons to Syria, triggering alarm from Israel.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any arms sales of "a defensive character" would not change the strategic balance in the Middle East.
But Israel's foreign minister said such sales could destabilise the region.
The comments came as Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad met at Russia's Black Sea resort of Sochi.
Moscow and Damascus are reportedly preparing deals on anti-aircraft and anti-tank missile systems, as well as surface-to-surface Iskander missiles.
Israel's foreign minister accused Syria of links with terrorists
Tzipi Livni, Israeli foreign minister, told a news conference in Jerusalem: "Russia has its own interests in the region and nobody wants to destabilise the region.
"And I think according to this assessment it is of mutual interest of Russia, Israel and pragmatic leaders of states in the region not to send this kind of long-range missiles to Syria."
She also said Syria was linked to Iran, Lebanese militant group Hezbollah and Palestinian militants Hamas.
Before the talks in Sochi, Syria's president had spoken of the need to speed up military and technical co-operation with Russia.
Syria was a close ally of the Soviet Union during the Cold War.
Relations between Moscow and Damascus have been getting closer recently - this visit is Mr Assad's third to Russia in three years.
Mr Assad said on Thursday Russia's military campaign in Georgia was a justified response to provocation from Tbilisi.
Russia has been strongly criticised by the West for its military operations in Georgia launched earlier this month.
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Please, feel free to sell them more Russian junk. The Israeli's blew threw their crappy air defense systems. We've crushed Russian equiped forces twice in 15 years. Oh and when u buy Russian equipment, u fight Russian doctrine as well, which does not work. They have some advanced toys but that won't making it to the middle east, oh and arabs don';t do maintenance so have fun with ur brand new T-80 tank with 20n year old reactive armor. Not sure how muhhamamed is going to fix his shit. U guys need to look at Georgia with a critical eye. They looked like gypsies with ak's, invading that country. They had a very powerful military, and still have some strategic level toys which are very dangerous. But they stepped on a very weak neighbor.
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Please, feel free to sell them more Russian junk. The Israeli's blew threw their crappy air defense systems. We've crushed Russian equiped forces twice in 15 years. Oh and when u buy Russian equipment, u fight Russian doctrine as well, which does not work. They have some advanced toys but that won't making it to the middle east, oh and arabs don';t do maintenance so have fun with ur brand new T-80 tank with 20n year old reactive armor. Not sure how muhhamamed is going to fix his shit. U guys need to look at Georgia with a critical eye. They looked like gypsies with ak's, invading that country. They had a very powerful military, and still have some strategic level toys which are very dangerous. But they stepped on a very weak neighbor.
E f-ing exactly.
Russia would get beat down like a sissy at football camp.
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We have an agreement with everyone that if a nuke ever goes off on our soil, that we nuke the capitals of every nation in the middle east, correct? Keeps them from "letting" another 911 happen?
This could change that, right? You can't cook damascus if Russian forces are there, without starting WWIII. Does this mean ANY country who lets Russia set up camp in their capital city is excluded from our MAD scenario?
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From The TimesAugust 21, 2008
Fear of new Mid East 'Cold War' as Syria strengthens military alliance with Russia
(Gerard Cerles/AFP/Getty Images)
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad appears to be keeping his options open
Kevin O’Flynn in Moscow and James Hider, Middle East Correspondent
Syria raised the prospect yesterday of having Russian missiles on its soil, sparking fears of a new Cold War in the Middle East. President Assad said as he arrived in Moscow to clinch a series of military agreements: “We are ready to co-operate with Russia in any project that can strengthen its security.”
The Syrian leader told Russian newspapers: “I think Russia really has to think of the response it will make when it finds itself closed in a circle.”
Mr Assad said that he would be discussing the deployment of Russian missiles on his territory. The Syrians are also interested in buying Russian weapons.
In return Moscow is expected to propose a revival of its Cold War era naval base at the Syrian port of Tartus, which would give the Russian Navy its first foothold in the Mediterranean for two decades. Damascus and Moscow were close allies during the Cold War but the Kremlin’s influence in the region waned after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Yesterday’s rapprochement raised the possibility that Moscow intends to re-create a global anti-Western alliance with former Soviet bloc allies.
Many in Israel fear that the Middle East could once again become a theatre for the two great powers to exert their spheres of influence, militarily and politically. And with Israel and the US providing military backing to Georgia, Russia appears set to respond in kind by supporting Syria.
Already, Israeli observers worry that the chaos in the Caucasus may disrupt gas supplies to Europe and Turkey from the Caspian Sea region, creating a greater energy reliance on Iran and its vast reserves. The crisis could in turn allow Tehran to exploit splits in the international community and use Russia as a backer to advance its nuclear programme. Russia has wooed Syria in recent years, as it has tried to increase its influence in the Middle East and increase arms sales.
Syria and Israel recently confirmed they had been holding indirect talks to reach a peace deal after decades of hostility. Part of Syria’s motivation was to break the international isolation it has suffered for its strategic alliance with Tehran. A closer alliance with a resurgent Russia could afford Mr Assad a way out of any binding commitment. Some Israeli analysts even fear that it could encourage Syria to try to take back the Golan Heights, captured by Israel in 1967, by force.
The Georgia conflict sparked a mocking speech with Cold War rhetoric by Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader, over the performance of Israeli-trained Georgian troops. One of the Israeli military advisers there was reserve Brigadier-General Gal Hirsch, who commanded a division in Israel’s inconclusive war with Hezbollah in 2006, and who resigned his commission afterwards.
“Gal Hirsch, who was defeated in Lebanon, went to Georgia and they too lost because of him,” the Shia leader taunted. “Relying on Israeli experts and weapons, Georgia learnt why the Israeli generals failed.
“What happened in Georgia is a message to all those the Americans are seeking to entangle in dangerous adventures.”