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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: BayGBM on August 24, 2008, 11:55:04 AM
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McCain's broken marriage and fractured Reagan friendship
The nature and timing of his divorce from Carol Shepp alienated key friends -- and his version doesn't always match that in court documents.
By Richard A. Serrano and Ralph Vartabedian
Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
July 11, 2008
Outside her Bel-Air home, Nancy Reagan stood arm in arm with John McCain and offered a significant -- but less than exuberant -- endorsement.
"Ronnie and I always waited until everything was decided, and then we endorsed," the Republican matriarch said in March. "Well, obviously this is the nominee of the party." They were the only words she would speak during the five-minute photo op.
In a written statement, she described McCain as "a good friend for over 30 years." But that friendship was strained in the late 1970s by McCain's decision to divorce his first wife, Carol, who was particularly close to the Reagans, and within weeks marry Cindy Hensley, the young heiress to a lucrative Arizona beer distributorship.
The Reagans rushed to help Carol, finding her a new home in Southern California with the family of Reagan aide Edwin Meese III and a series of political and White House jobs to ease her through that difficult time.
McCain, who is about to become the GOP nominee, has made several statements about how he divorced Carol and married Hensley that conflict with the public record.
In his 2002 memoir, "Worth the Fighting For," McCain wrote that he had separated from Carol before he began dating Hensley.
"I spent as much time with Cindy in Washington and Arizona as our jobs would allow," McCain wrote. "I was separated from Carol, but our divorce would not become final until February of 1980."
An examination of court documents tells a different story. McCain did not sue his wife for divorce until Feb. 19, 1980, and he wrote in his court petition that he and his wife had "cohabited" until Jan. 7 of that year -- or for the first nine months of his relationship with Hensley.
Although McCain suggested in his autobiography that months passed between his divorce and remarriage, the divorce was granted April 2, 1980, and he wed Hensley in a private ceremony five weeks later. McCain obtained an Arizona marriage license on March 6, 1980, while still legally married to his first wife.
Until McCain filed for divorce, the Reagans and their inner circle assumed he was happily married, and they were stunned to learn otherwise, according to several close aides.
"Everybody was upset with him," recalled Nancy Reynolds, a top aide to the former president who introduced him to McCain.
By contrast, some of McCain's friends, including the Senate aide who was at the reception where McCain first met Hensley, believed he was separated at that time.
Albert "Pete" Lakeland, the aide who was with McCain at the reception in Hawaii in April 1979, said of the introduction to Hensley: "It was like he was struck by Cupid's arrow. He was just enormously smitten."
As the pair began dating, Lakeland allowed them to spend a weekend together at his summer home in Maryland, he said.
The senator has acknowledged that he behaved badly, and that his swift divorce and remarriage brought a cold shoulder from the Reagans that lasted years.
In a recent interview, McCain said he did not want to revisit the breakup of his marriage. "I have a very good relationship with my first wife," he said. In his autobiography, he wrote: "My marriage's collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity. The blame was entirely mine."
Tucker Bounds, a McCain campaign spokesman, said: "Of course we will not comment on the breakup of the senator's first marriage, other than to note that the senator has always taken responsibility for it."
Carol McCain did not respond to a request for an interview.
About all she has ever said is this to McCain biographer Robert Timberg: "John was turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again."
After leaving the White House, Carol McCain worked in press relations in the Washington area, retiring about five years ago after working for the National Soft Drink Assn. She now lives in Virginia Beach, Va., and has not remarried. She has two sons from an earlier marriage: Andy, a vice president at Cindy McCain's beer distributorship, and Doug, a commercial airline pilot.
Carol and John McCain had a daughter, Sidney, who works in the music industry in Canada.
John McCain, who calls himself "a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution," said in his memoir: "My divorce from Carol, whom the Reagans loved, caused a change in our relationship. Nancy . . . was particularly upset with me and treated me on the few occasions we encountered each other after I came to Congress with a cool correctness that made her displeasure clear.
"I had, of course, deserved the change in our relationship."
Joanne Drake, spokeswoman for Nancy Reagan, did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The first Mrs. McCain
McCain met Carol Shepp through a mutual friend and fellow midshipman at the Naval Academy, from which McCain graduated in 1958. That friend, Alasdair E. Swanson, married her in 1958. In the early 1960s, the Swansons lived in Pensacola, Fla., where Alasdair Swanson and McCain served as Navy pilots.
But that marriage ended in June 1964 after Carol sued for divorce, alleging that her husband had been unfaithful.
According to McCain, he started seeing Carol shortly afterward. They were married in Philadelphia, her hometown, in July 1965. McCain adopted her two sons, and they had a daughter together. Then in October 1967, McCain's plane was shot down and he was captured by the North Vietnamese.
She became active in the POW-MIA movement. A former model, she dedicated herself to her children and kept the family together, friends said, while awaiting his return.
"She had the perseverance to carry on," said Melinda Fitzwater, a cousin of McCain's who later worked with Carol McCain at the White House. "She had a little baby and small kids. She was a great, unique person."
On Christmas Eve 1969, while she was driving alone in Philadelphia, Carol McCain's car skidded and struck a utility pole. Thrown into the snow, she broke both legs, an arm and her pelvis. She was operated on a dozen times, and in the treatment she lost about 5 inches in height.
After John McCain was released in March 1973 and returned to the U.S., he told friends that Carol was not the woman he had married.
Reynolds, working for then-California Gov. Ronald Reagan, said she first met the couple in San Francisco at a reception for ex-prisoners. She later introduced them to the Reagans at their home in Pacific Palisades.
"They were just an attractive couple," Reynolds said. "The Reagans had great admiration and respect for John."
In 1974, Reagan invited McCain to speak at a governor's prayer breakfast in Sacramento. The former prisoner of war told the story of a fellow captive who had scratched a prayer on a cell wall. Ronald and Nancy Reagan were reduced to tears. It was "the most moving speech I had ever heard," Reynolds said.
In the next few years, family and friends said, there was no sign that McCain was unhappy in his marriage. Fitzwater recalled visiting the family on Thanksgivings, and McCain seemed content barbecuing a turkey on his outdoor grill near Jacksonville, Fla.
Navy officers in the squadron McCain commanded in 1977 said they did not know anything was wrong. "When I went to parties at their home, everything seemed fine," said Mike Akin, a naval flying instructor. "They seemed to be a happily married couple."
But two years later, while on a trip as a Navy liaison with the Senate, McCain spied Hensley at the Honolulu reception. In a recent television interview with Jay Leno on the "Tonight Show," Cindy McCain joked about how the Navy captain had pursued her. "He kind of chased me around . . . the hors d'oeuvre table," she said. "I was trying to get something to eat and I thought, 'This guy's kind of weird.' I was kind of trying to get away from him."
John McCain was 42; she was 24. During the next nine months, he would fly to Arizona or she would come to the Washington area, where McCain and Carol had a home.
Carol McCain later told friends, including Reynolds and Fitzwater, that she did not know he was seeing anyone else.
John McCain sued for divorce in Fort Walton Beach, Fla., where his friend and fellow former POW, George E. "Bud" Day, practiced law and could represent him.
In the petition, he stated that the couple had "cohabited as husband and wife" until Jan. 7, 1980.
His wife did not contest the divorce, and Day said that the couple had reached an agreement in advance on support and division of property. By then she was living in La Mesa, in San Diego County, with the family of Meese, a close Reagan aide and future attorney general.
"We knew John and Carol both since he came back from Hanoi in 1973," Meese said recently. "They have been friends of ours ever since.
"She was with us for maybe four or five months. Their daughter and our daughter were friends, and they went to school together."
Carol McCain was distraught at being blindsided by her husband's intention to end their marriage, said her friends in the Reagan circle.
"They [the Reagans] weren't happy with him," Fitzwater said. Carol McCain "was this little, frail person. . . . She was brokenhearted."
By that time, Nancy Reagan had come to Carol McCain's aid, hiring her as a press assistant in the 1980 presidential campaign.
When the Reagans moved to Washington, she was named director of the White House Visitors Office.
"Nancy Reagan was crazy about her," Reynolds said. "But everybody was crazy about Carol McCain. . . . And the Meeses were very generous and helpful and comforting to her."
Fitzwater said that living in Southern California and working on the Reagan campaign helped Carol McCain move past the loss of her marriage.
"It was perfect for her. She was traveling, and it took her mind off a very, very sad time for her."
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Snore!
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Snore!
I'd be willing to bet that what caused him to leave his first wife and cheat on her. :)
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I'd be willing to bet that what caused him to leave his first wife and cheat on her. :)
Who cares? He has been married to Cindy for 28 years. This is an issue for suckers. :)
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Who cares? He has been married to Cindy for 28 years. This is an issue for suckers. :)
He's demonstrated little resolve for his principles by flip flopping, pandering AND cheating on his wife.
That shows me he has no problem living a lie.
These are character traits that don't belong in Washington, although it seems to be full of them.
At least, BUSH has back bone and stands his ground, as much as i don't like BUSH, i can respect him for that.
Cheating on your wife, in addition to the other things i mentioned shows McCain's character is very weak and vulnerable to detrimental outside influence.
But you may be right, A man that cheats on his wife may be a character issue for suckers. ;)
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He's demonstrated little resolve for his principles by flip flopping, pandering AND cheating on his wife.
That shows me he has no problem living a lie.
These are character traits that don't belong in Washington, although it seems to be full of them.
At least, BUSH has back bone and stands his ground, as much as i don't like BUSH, i can respect him for that.
Cheating on your wife, in addition to the other things i mentioned shows McCain's character is very weak and vulnerable to detrimental outside influence.
But you may be right, A man that cheats on his wife may be a character issue for suckers. ;)
It shows me that he made a terrible mistake nearly 30 years ago. Wow. It sounds like he has been faithful to his wife for 28 years, has a good marriage, has been a good father, and a solid citizen. Not an issue for me and probably most of the voting public.
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He's demonstrated little resolve for his principles by flip flopping, pandering AND cheating on his wife.
That shows me he has no problem living a lie.
These are character traits that don't belong in Washington, although it seems to be full of them.
At least, BUSH has back bone and stands his ground, as much as i don't like BUSH, i can respect him for that.
Cheating on your wife, in addition to the other things i mentioned shows McCain's character is very weak and vulnerable to detrimental outside influence.
But you may be right, A man that cheats on his wife may be a character issue for suckers. ;)
LOL ive heard you blabbering about this for long enough ozmo...You have no idea what their marraige was like, you have no idea what happend in their marraige so do us a favor and drop it. You think you could have a succesful marriage if you where away from you wife for 5 years? Fuking doubt it stfu already about how this shows he has a weak character. Was his character weak when he was given the chance to leave the prison camp early but denied the chance so a friend could leave?
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I agree Tony. Attack McCain for his position on the issues, but this? It's silly.
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Who cares? He has been married to Cindy for 28 years. This is an issue for suckers. :)
barack obama has been a practicing christian for 30 years.
Would it really matter if he was a muslim for the first 17 years?
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It shows me that he made a terrible mistake nearly 30 years ago. Wow. It sounds like he has been faithful to his wife for 28 years, has a good marriage, has been a good father, and a solid citizen. Not an issue for me and probably most of the voting public.
You know him that well?
If he cheated on his wife once is he more or less likely to cheat on another wife? I bet there are studies that show, scum bags who cheat on there are wives are far more likely to cheat again.
It's a serious character flaw, especially one for the presidency. Didn't the Family Values campaign in 2000 cover that one for you?
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You know him that well?
If he cheated on his wife once is he more or less likely to cheat on another wife? I bet there are studies that show, scum bags who cheat on there are wives are far more likely to cheat again.
It's a serious character flaw, especially one for the presidency. Didn't the Family Values campaign in 2000 cover that one for you?
I'm sure it'd be equally irrelevant for BB, if Obama had done the same thing.
If Obama had cheated on his crippled wife at age 47, beach Bum wouldn't be brining that up.
Issues like this don't matter to him.
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barack obama has been a practicing christian for 30 years.
O Rly? Proof?
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LOL ive heard you blabbering about this for long enough ozmo...You have no idea what their marraige was like, you have no idea what happend in their marraige so do us a favor and drop it. You think you could have a succesful marriage if you where away from you wife for 5 years? Fuking doubt it stfu already about how this shows he has a weak character. Was his character weak when he was given the chance to leave the prison camp early but denied the chance so a friend could leave?
I never took you for a McCain apologist. ;D
I don't have to have any idea what their marriage was like. If he was a man of principle he would have never had an affair while he was married. That's all i need to know to show me he's a weak man. Not fit to run the country.
BTW, I'm not going to shut the fvck up already. I'm going to keep blowing this horn. Cause BELIEVE ME, had this been Obama, you bunch of self righteous nipple whore fvcks would be all over him like hair on a gorilla. ;) ;D
Why are you apologizing for this pandering whore scum bag anyway?
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You know him that well?
If he cheated on his wife once is he more or less likely to cheat on another wife? I bet there are studies that show, scum bags who cheat on there are wives are far more likely to cheat again.
It's a serious character flaw, especially one for the presidency. Didn't the Family Values campaign in 2000 cover that one for you?
What is the family values campaign?
I'm sure if McCain had mistresses we'd all know about it. It's a ridiculous issue. Nobody cares. Except maybe Obama apologists. Like I said, I doubt most voters care that he cheated on his wife 30 years ago.
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I'm sure it'd be equally irrelevant for BB, if Obama had done the same thing.
If Obama had cheated on his crippled wife at age 47, beach Bum wouldn't be brining that up.
Issues like this don't matter to him.
lol. And the facts don't matter to liberals you. Your middle name is embellishment. lol .
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O Rly? Proof?
i was creating a hypothetical for you.
if it doesn't matter what kind of sexual deviant things mccain was doing 30 years ago - if that has no bearing upon the man we see today...
Does the same thing apply to obama? If he was cheating or praying to allah 30 years ago, would it matter?
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lol. And the facts don't matter to liberals you. Your middle name is embellishment. lol .
LOL... and yours is ... I won't go there.
Would it matter to you? If Obama was banging fly bitches on the weekend, would it matter now?
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What is the family values campaign?
I'm sure if McCain had mistresses we'd all know about it. It's a ridiculous issue. Nobody cares. Except maybe Obama apologists. Like I said, I doubt most voters care that he cheated on his wife 30 years ago.
I donno, what is it? wasn't something Newt and his bunch did in 2000 to help the repubs get back in office? WAIT! Newt was an adulterer too!
Would we know if McCain had a mistress? You are assuming alot. Would we know if he had one in the last 30 years? would we know if he had a fling or a one nighter in the last 30 years?
Leper don't lose their spots.
and it doesn't matter who cares or who doesn't. the issue is about McCain and his weak ass, not whether the public gives a shit or not. I guarantee you the vast majority don;t even know about his infidelity.
McCain is an adulterer. A weak man. Who cannot stand on principles. Who flips flops and panders. He's a whore.
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i was creating a hypothetical for you.
if it doesn't matter what kind of sexual deviant things mccain was doing 30 years ago - if that has no bearing upon the man we see today...
Does the same thing apply to obama? If he was cheating or praying to allah 30 years ago, would it matter?
So now it was a hypothetical? ::) You said Obama has been a practicing Christian for 30 years. Do you ever stop making stuff up? You should experiment with it sometime.
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LOL... and yours is ... I won't go there.
Would it matter to you? If Obama was banging fly bitches on the weekend, would it matter now?
If it was Obama, BeachBum would be posting it non stop. Com on.
He'd arguing the same points I'm arguing but against Obama.
Can we be real here? ;D :D 8)
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I donno, what is it? wasn't something Newt and his bunch did in 2000 to help the repubs get back in office? WAIT! Newt was an adulterer too!
Would we know if McCain had a mistress? You are assuming alot. Would we know if he had one in the last 30 years? would we know if he had a fling or a one nighter in the last 30 years?
Leper don't lose their spots.
and it doesn't matter who cares or who doesn't. the issue is about McCain and his weak ass, not whether the public gives a shit or not. I guarantee you the vast majority don;t even know about his infidelity.
McCain is an adulterer. A weak man. Who cannot stand on principles. Who flips flops and panders. He's a whore.
You mentioned the "the Family Values campaign in 2000." Sorry, never heard of it. Sounds like you don't know what it is. Why ask me if the "campaign" worked for me if you don't even know what it is?
J. Sidney is a great American. :)
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If it was Obama, BeachBum would be posting it non stop. Com on.
He'd arguing the same points I'm arguing but against Obama.
Can we be real here? ;D :D 8)
Yawn. Nice straw man. :)
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Yawn. Nice straw man. :)
Deny it all you want. Even liken me to Straw man. It's change anything.
You know you would do it.
You would make it an issue here.
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You mentioned the "the Family Values campaign in 2000." Sorry, never heard of it. Sounds like you don't know what it is. Why ask me if the "campaign" worked for me if you don't even know what it is?
J. Sidney is a great American. :)
What ever dude. Pretend you don't know what i'm talking about.
Doesn't change what Johnny Jukebox is.
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Deny it all you want. Even liken me to Straw man. It's change anything.
You know you would do it.
You would make it an issue here.
LOL. You expect me to debate a made-up issue regarding a non-existent set of facts?? Nice try. Will not bite.
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What ever dude. Pretend you don't know what i'm talking about.
Doesn't change what Johnny Jukebox is.
I don't know what you're talking about. Neither do you apparently.
You're right: doesn't change the fact that J. Sidney is a great American. Not the ideal presidential candidate, but a great American.
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I don't know what you're talking about. Neither do you apparently.
You're right: doesn't change the fact that J. Sidney is a great American. Not the ideal presidential candidate, but a great American.
yeah, you do. quit it already. (roll eyes in a playful way)
BTW, the worm you are putting on the hook isn't juicy enough.
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LOL. You expect me to debate a made-up issue regarding a non-existent set of facts?? Nice try. Will not bite.
Made up issue?
John McCain's infidelity is made up?
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I never took you for a McCain apologist. ;D
I don't have to have any idea what their marriage was like. If he was a man of principle he would have never had an affair while he was married. That's all i need to know to show me he's a weak man. Not fit to run the country.
BTW, I'm not going to shut the fvck up already. I'm going to keep blowing this horn. Cause BELIEVE ME, had this been Obama, you bunch of self righteous nipple whore fvcks would be all over him like hair on a gorilla. ;) ;D
Why are you apologizing for this pandering whore scum bag anyway?
first off im not apologizing for him
way to not answer anyone of my questions, arent you married ozmo?
you think that your marriage could survive if you where apart from your wife for 5+ years?
was his character weak when he was a pow and refused early release so his friend could go home?
Arent you the one who said off shore drilling was a sucker issue for suckers? and now you bring this shit up ::) LOL nice
They are both pandering whores, Look at obamas vp choice a supposed devout christian chooses a person who openly insults believers, lol both of them pander.
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yeah, you do. quit it already. (roll eyes in a playful way)
BTW, the worm you are putting on the hook isn't juicy enough.
Dude, you know I play Devil's Advocate a lot, but I'm not doing that right now. If there was a "Family Values" campaign in 2000, it was lost on me. I didn't vote based on any family values campaign in 2000. I primarily vote my pocket book.
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Made up issue?
John McCain's infidelity is made up?
No. You saying I would be criticizing Obama if he had an affair 30 years ago is a made-up issue.
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You mentioned the "the Family Values campaign in 2000." Sorry, never heard of it. Sounds like you don't know what it is. Why ask me if the "campaign" worked for me if you don't even know what it is?
J. Sidney is a great American. :)
I think he's alluding to the Moral Majority, Paul Weyrich, Pat Robertson, D. James Kennedy, Tim LaHaye and the American Coalition for Traditional Values, James Dobson and the Family Research Council and all the other like minded Family Values groups that acted as unpaid Bush campaign support.
But if we recall the 2000 election, the 'family values' crowd was muzzled and closeted to make way for the Uniter...a compassionate conservative embracing all americans.
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first off im not apologizing for him
Yes you are:
You have no idea what their marraige was like, you have no idea what happend in their marraige so do us a favor and drop it. You think you could have a succesful marriage if you where away from you wife for 5 years?
Apologizing is exactly what you are doing. And i might say, you are doing it better than your garden variety liberal.
way to not answer anyone of my questions, arent you married ozmo?
you think that your marriage could survive if you where apart from your wife for 5+ years?
was his character weak when he was a pow and refused early release so his friend could go home?
I'm sorry about the questions. I thought they were rhetorical. ;D
I'd be thrilled to answer them.
Q: You think that your marriage could survive if you where apart from your wife for 5+ years?
A: Don't know. Many POW's marriage did and many didn't. but that's not the issue is it? the issue is whether or not McCain is a man who will stand behind sound principles. And the answer is as plain as the signatures on the marriage certificate.
Q: Was his character weak when he was a pow and refused early release so his friend could go home?
A: Character issue here isn't whether or not he was unselfish while as a POW. The question is whether or not he can be trusted to stand for a principle. In this case it's the principle of the sanctity and integrity of marriage. He showed he has no integrity when it came to that. As many many other politicians have shown. But yet it doesn't change the fact that's plain wrong and WEAK of him.
Arent you the one who said off shore drilling was a sucker issue for suckers? and now you bring this shit up LOL nice
Really? A guy who you may vote for to be in the white house cheated on his wife and that's not an important issue to consider as far as his character and integrity goes?
You would be ok with some one who didn't respect the sanctity of marriage? Of marriage before God?
And you'll trust this guys integrity with other things?
And the 74 flips i listed on the other thread.
this boy is a whore plain and simple.
They are both pandering whores, Look at obamas vp choice a supposed devout christian chooses a person who openly insults believers, lol both of them pander.
Yes they both pander. but McCain whored himself out to get the nomination. Obama stayed true to his pimp.
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I think he's alluding to the Moral Majority, Paul Weyrich, Pat Robertson, D. James Kennedy, Tim LaHaye and the American Coalition for Traditional Values, James Dobson and the Family Research Council and all the other like minded Family Values groups that acted as unpaid Bush campaign support.
But if we recall the 2000 election, the 'family values' crowd was muzzled and closeted to make way for the Uniter...a compassionate conservative embracing all americans.
SHHHHHHHHH
You are giving him hints. ;D
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Yes you are:
Apologizing is exactly what you are doing. And i might say, you are doing it better than your garden variety liberal.
I'm sorry about the questions. I thought they were rhetorical. ;D
I'd be thrilled to answer them.
Q: You think that your marriage could survive if you where apart from your wife for 5+ years?
A: Don't know. Many POW's marriage did and many didn't. but that's not the issue is it? the issue is whether or not McCain is a man who will stand behind sound principles. And the answer is as plain as the signatures on the marriage certificate.
Q: Was his character weak when he was a pow and refused early release so his friend could go home?
A: Character issue here isn't whether or not he was unselfish while as a POW. The question is whether or not he can be trusted to stand for a principle. In this case it's the principle of the sanctity and integrity of marriage. He showed he has no integrity when it came to that. As many many other politicians have shown. But yet it doesn't change the fact that's plain wrong and WEAK of him.
Really? A guy who you may vote for to be in the white house cheated on his wife and that's not an important issue to consider as far as his character and integrity goes?
You would be ok with some one who didn't respect the sanctity of marriage? Of marriage before God?
And you'll trust this guys integrity with other things?
And the 74 flips i listed on the other thread.
this boy is a whore plain and simple.
Yes they both pander. but McCain whored himself out to get the nomination. Obama stayed true to his pimp.
i agree what he did was shitty but again you know nothing about their situation and shouldnt make judgements on what you hear on cnn. So his integrity and character only come into account when it is in the context of marriage but not letting his friend go home before him b/c there was an agreement among pow's? LOL assinine...everybody flips and flops or repositions I would like to see what amount of time was in between those flops and what events transpired between then as well.
Character and intergrity are very important but i seriously doubt you where running around here like a chicken with your head cut off yelling for clintons impeachment when he cheated while in office in the fuking oval office.
Alot and i mean ALOT OF PPL CHEAT that doesnt mean they are morally bankrupt individuals and that they have a bad character.
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i agree what he did was shitty but again you know nothing about their situation and shouldnt make judgements on what you hear on cnn.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I never heard it on CNN. I heard right here on GETBIG! Well it was linked to some site. Not CNN!
So his integrity and character only come into account when it is in the context of marriage but not letting his friend go home before him b/c there was an agreement among pow's?
I think is is rhetorical, but to be safe, I'll answer it anyway. with a question...... ;D
How much character does a person have who murders children AND gives millions to charities?
My point is, that McCain isn't a total scum bag that belongs in prison. My point is that he has character flaws. Flaws that should be taken into account if he is going to be the leader of America. And these flaws are an issue.
LOL assinine...everybody flips and flops or repositions I would like to see what amount of time was in between those flops and what events transpired between then as well.
Yeah, check it out. some of those things i see as principles that changed. Makes him suspect as to his resolve. what does the man stand for and will he stand for it when it counts for America and not necessarily for him? That's the issue.
Character and intergrity are very important but i seriously doubt you where running around here like a chicken with your head cut off yelling for clintons impeachment when he cheated while in office in the fuking oval office.
What cracks me up is you thinking i was a Clinton supporter. I voted for BUSH sr. And didn't vote in 1996. I wasn't really involved as much in politics as much until 2000 when BUSH took office. And i didn't have any complaints about BUSH until he invaded Iraq. since I've been as involved in politics as i have ever been. When the Clinton Cigar chronicles came out I thought it was terrible and really was down on him for it. My son, who was 7 at the time, i think, was really confused and disillusioned by it. It was hard to explain it tto him in a way that didn't make him lose complete faith in our country's leaders. Integrity in leadership to me is very important. And it should be to everyone. I think Clinton was a better president overall than BUSH by far. But that doesn't make me much of a supporter. I like Reagan the best. But then i was the most naive back then.
Impeaching and taking up issue with why to vote for someone are 2 different things. I don't think he should have been impeached. And then again i didn't vote for him either.
Alot and i mean ALOT OF PPL CHEAT that doesnt mean they are morally bankrupt individuals and that they have a bad character.
Sorry I completely differ with you there. I wouldn't go as far to say they are ALL morally bankrupt. But they have serious integrity issues and character flaws. Such that they shouldn't be president.
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LOL wow you shouldnt compare cheating with killing children and giving up a chance to leave a living hell and passing it up so your buddy can go to giving away millions...your overstating one and understating another.
I agree that he has character flaws but this would be next to last on the list that would worry me about him.
And in terms of character flaws i would rank obama attending a church that had racist views and having a wife that holds racist views as of much more importance than a cheating spouse but thats my personal opinion and im sure you wont agree but hey...
and i never said you supported clinton
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LOL wow you shouldnt compare cheating with killing children and giving up a chance to leave a living hell and passing it up so your buddy can go to giving away millions...your overstating one and understating another.
That's not my intent. My intent is to show that good things people do, do not cancel out the bad things they do.
I agree that he has character flaws but this would be next to last on the list that would worry me about him.
It should be a huge issue. Character governs actions. You don't agree?
And in terms of character flaws i would rank obama attending a church that had racist views and having a wife that holds racist views as of much more importance than a cheating spouse but thats my personal opinion and im sure you wont agree but hey.
I agree about the Wright thing.
Where is it that Michelle has racists views?
and i never said you supported clinton
It seems like you assumed that i would let Clinton off the hook and because of that i assume you thought i supported him. I don't know that i did or didn't. I just think he did a better job of things than BUSH.
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That's not my intent. My intent is to show that good things people do, do not cancel out the bad things they do.
It should be a huge issue. Character governs actions. You don't agree?
I agree about the Wright thing.
Where is it that Michelle has racists views?
It seems like you assumed that i would let Clinton off the hook and because of that i assume you thought i supported him. I don't know that i did or didn't. I just think he did a better job of things than BUSH.
I got your point i was just saying the analogy was poor, and i agree but ppl's entire character shouldnt be judged by one incident as well.
I agree character governs actions to an extent in daily lives but not always in business which is what this is.
In Michelles thesis she stated that should would use her resources to help African americans first and foremost.
I was implying that the reason that this gets you all riled up is that you would probably want obama rather than mccain to win the election and that it wasnt as big a deal for you when clinton did it or at least you didnt make as big a deal of it.
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I got your point i was just saying the analogy was poor, and i agree but ppl's entire character shouldnt be judged by one incident as well.
I agree character governs actions to an extent in daily lives but not always in business which is what this is.
In Michelles thesis she stated that should would use her resources to help African americans first and foremost.
I was implying that the reason that this gets you all riled up is that you would probably want obama rather than mccain to win the election and that it wasnt as big a deal for you when clinton did it or at least you didnt make as big a deal of it.
I want a primary "do over" in both parties actually!
I honestly don't know if I'm going to vote for either of them.