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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on September 01, 2008, 07:00:53 PM
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Evangelicals rally behind Palin after pregnancy news
By Rebecca Sinderbrand
CNN
ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) -- Key evangelical leaders rallied to Sarah Palin's support Monday amid news that her 17-year-old daughter, Bristol, was having a child.
"Before, they were excited about her, with the Down syndrome baby," conservative, anti-tax activist Grover Norquist said. "But now with this, they are over the moon. It reinforces the fact that this family lives its pro-life values."
Palin and John McCain oppose abortion and have supported promoting abstinence in schools, which would seem to make Bristol Palin's pregnancy an inconveniently timed development.
But she is keeping the child, a fact that could make the Alaska governor -- whose candidacy has been enthusiastically embraced by evangelicals who regard her as one of their own -- even more popular among that key GOP voting bloc. Watch more on Palin's announcement »
"Fortunately, Bristol is following her mother and father's example of choosing life in the midst of a difficult situation," Family Research Council president Tony Perkins said. "We are committed to praying for Bristol and her husband-to-be and the entire Palin family as they walk through a very private matter in the eyes of the public."
Evangelical leader Richard Land also backed Palin completely.
"This is the pro-life choice. The fact that people will criticize her for this shows the astounding extent to which the secular critics of the pro-life movement just don't get it," Land said in a statement.
"Those who criticize the Palin family don't understand that we don't see babies as a punishment but as a blessing. Barack Obama said that if one of his daughters made a mistake and got pregnant out of wedlock, he wouldn't want her to be punished with a child. Pro-lifers don't see a child as punishment."
The immediate support of these major figures, who offered universal praise for the Palins' actions after learning their daughter was pregnant, provides the filter through which conservative Christian voters will process the development.
Most important for Palin, an elder statesman of the movement, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson, released a statement lauding the Palins for acting in keeping with the group's policies and practices:
"We have always encouraged the parents to love and support their children and always advised the girls to see their pregnancies through, even though there will of course be challenges along the way. That is what the Palins are doing, and they should be commended once again for not just talking about their pro-life and pro-family values, but living them out even in the midst of trying circumstances.
"Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect. Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord. I've been the beneficiary of that forgiveness and restoration in my own life countless times, as I'm sure the Palins have," Dobson said.
Some evangelicals gathered in Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota, for the Republican convention speculated that the news would pose more of a problem for Democrats than for the GOP ticket.
Speculation by some on blogs that Palin's son Trig was actually Bristol's child had led to outrage among conservatives.
Any comment by Democrats that is viewed as remotely critical could make both Sarah and Bristol Palin appear to be sympathetic victims of a political vendetta.
By Monday afternoon, evangelical leaders were circling the wagons.
"The media are already trying to spin this as evidence Gov. Palin is a 'hypocrite,' but all it really means is that she and her family are human," Dobson said. "They are in my prayers and those of millions of Americans."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/01/palin.evangelicals/index.html
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well it sure wouldn't be very Christian of them to abandon her
btw - Pro-Lifer's get no credit from me for "not" having an abortion
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It's interesting on the one hand how they scream leave Bristol alone, the child should be off-limits, yet they have no qualms about trotting her out like a puppy at a dog n' pony show. Poor kid. :'(
I wouldn't be surprised to see campaign posters with her bare pregnant belly next.
I'm glad Jerry Falwell isn't around for this, because something tells me his position on an unwed pregnant teen would be anything but supportive.
Today they rally around her, ...but if when Obama wins in Novemeber, ...they'll blame the defeat on her
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well it sure wouldn't be very Christian of them to abandon her
btw - Pro-Lifer's get no credit from me for "not" having an abortion
It worked for Alan Keyes, ...and his daughter stood absolutely no chance of getting pregnant.
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well it sure wouldn't be very Christian of them to abandon her
btw - Pro-Lifer's get no credit from me for "not" having an abortion
Why not? It shows that their willing to stuck to their guns even when hit with the sobering responsibility of parenthood.
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It's interesting on the one hand how they scream leave Bristol alone, the child should be off-limits, yet they have no qualms about trotting her out like a puppy at a dog n' pony show. Poor kid. :'(
Please write a letter to Barry asking him to leave his daughters at home and off the campaign trail.
Oh yeah... politicians from both sides of the aisle like to portray themselves as family men (or women).
My bad.
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Why not? It shows that their willing to stuck to their guns even when hit with the sobering responsibility of parenthood.
if you're referring to the abortion statement it's because they're already Pro-Life.
They've already decided that abortion is wrong so of course they get no credit for not taking that path
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Wonder if they're checking out Sarah's ass as they rally behind her.
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Evangelicals rally behind Palin after pregnancy news
;D
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if you're referring to the abortion statement it's because they're already Pro-Life.
They've already decided that abortion is wrong so of course they get no credit for not taking that path
A person should get credit for sticking to their core beliefs when their back's against the wall.
If defines who they are.
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yeah, i admire her for keeping the baby - whether the 5th baby was hers or not - keeping it was a big and bold move. props for that.
and i do agree with most of her positions on the issues.
but i don't think mccain properly vetted her.
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A person should get credit for sticking to their core beliefs when their back's against the wall. if defines who they are.
that's like giving an orthodox jew or muslim credit for not eating pork.
they have no choice in the matter otherwise they are hypocrites (I'm talking about the anti-abortion people).
I don't give people credit for not being a hypocrite
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A person should get credit for sticking to their core beliefs when their back's against the wall.
If defines who they are.
I agree
Pass this over to Obama will ya.
(http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/nyleather/th_crack-pipe.jpg)
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I agree
Pass this over to Obama will ya.
(http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/nyleather/th_crack-pipe.jpg)
Is that a liberal smart-stick?
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Is that a liberal smart-stick?
lmao, ;D
ahh man
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I agree
Pass this over to Obama will ya.
(http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n171/nyleather/th_crack-pipe.jpg)
Then he can pass it to Palin, I assume you are aware of what she admitted also.
They can have a bi-partison smoke 8)
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A person should get credit for sticking to their core beliefs when their back's against the wall.
If defines who they are.
I agree. Criticizing people for violating their core beliefs, but not giving them "credit" for being true doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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A person should get credit for sticking to their core beliefs when their back's against the wall.
If defines who they are.
This doesn't bode well for the Bush agenda of dismantling the constitution then, ...that sounds Anti-American
...and McCain wants to continue more of the same. ???
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I agree. Criticizing people for violating their core beliefs, but not giving them "credit" for being true doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Depends which way you look at it.
I thought part of the family value set and "core beliefs" was to be practice abstinence and NOT to engage teenage premarital sex and get pregnant in high school.
Can't discard and choose "core beliefs" at whim, so this can be seen either way.
Either way, any rational person should commend Palin for standing by her child, while recognizing teen pregnancies are nothing to be commended for, and to be supported while not encouraged.
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Depends which way you look at it.
I thought part of the family value set and "core beliefs" was to be practice abstinence and NOT to engage teenage premarital sex and get pregnant in high school.
Can't discard and choose "core beliefs" at whim, so this can be seen either way.
Either way, any rational person should commend Palin for standing by her child, while recognizing teen pregnancies are nothing to be commended for, and to be supported while not encouraged.
Doesn't sound like the family discarded their core beliefs. Sounds like their daughter made a mistake and the family is standing by their child, who is keeping, rather than aborting, the baby.
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Today they rally around her, ...but if when Obama wins in Novemeber, ...they'll blame the defeat on her
This worries me, the poor girl may blame herself.
The bigger picture here is judgement.
Downs newborn baby, 2 other younger kids, a pregnant teen - but you choose to run for VP thrusting your kid into the international press. And McCain choose her :-\
There are so many capable picks for VP, tons - but those kids only have one mom...
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This worries me, the poor girl may blame herself.
The bigger picture here is judgement.
Downs newborn baby, 2 other younger kids, a pregnant teen - but you choose to run for VP thrusting your kid into the international press. And McCain choose her :-\
There are so many capable picks for VP, tons - but those kids only have one mom...
I agree - bad judgement by McCain and equally bad judgement by Palin
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Doesn't sound like the family discarded their core beliefs. Sounds like their daughter made a mistake and the family is standing by their child, who is keeping, rather than aborting, the baby.
Nope... sounds like an Alaska family who can't stop rutting, ::) is telling ever-body else how to behave, when they can't follow God's law.. Isn't that just like you religious ummm people. Just can't follow your own creed can you? :)
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Nope... sounds like an Alaska family who can't stop rutting, ::) is telling ever-body else how to behave, when they can't follow God's law.. Isn't that just like you religious ummm people. Just can't follow your own creed can you? :)
I haven't heard Palin telling everyone how to behave. Have you? Sounds to me like she has a set of core beliefs, just like many people in politics.
Always funny how anti-religious folks use the broad brush whenever an openly religious person has a problem.
I haven't met a perfect person yet, but when I find one I'll let you know. :)
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I haven't heard Palin telling everyone how to behave. Have you? Sounds to me like she has a set of core beliefs, just like many people in politics.
Always funny how anti-religious folks use the broad brush whenever an openly religious person has a problem.
I haven't met a perfect person yet, but when I find one I'll let you know. :)
Guess you'll stop using the ::) icon since you're humble, dude. ::) Actually are you saying she isn't advocating no contaceptives, no abortion, no judgment on enerbody? :) No judgement on every woman in America. Because she can't really judge anyone's morality?
So she isn't saying no contraceptives for anyone, she isn't saying everybody must be like she? Frack I hope not!!! :) She had to get married, so taught same for her child. Who would possibly keep their kid out of school for months so they can bunny-love their boyfriend. My mother sure as hell wouldn't have. And she just knew what was right. ;)
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Guess you'll stop using the ::) icon since you're humble, dude. ::) Actually are you saying she isn't advocating no contaceptives, no abortion, no judgment on enerbody? :) No judgement on every woman in America. Because she can't really judge anyone's morality?
So she isn't saying no contraceptives for anyone, she isn't saying everybody must be like she? Frack I hope not!!! :) She had to get married, so taught same for her child. Who would possibly keep their kid out of school for months so they can bunny-love their boyfriend. My mother sure as hell wouldn't have. And she just knew what was right. ;)
Oh no. I'll continue my liberal use of ::) as often as needed. Use or nonuse of ::) has nothing to do with humility. That's a new one. lol
Palin is no more advocating "judgment" by being pro life and favoring abstinence, than Obama is advocating "judgment" by advocating abortion under pretty much any circumstances and favoring giving condoms to kids.
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Deedee.
That is a very pretty eye.
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Oh no. I'll continue my liberal use of ::) as often as needed. Use or nonuse of ::) has nothing to do with humility. That's a new one. lol
Palin is no more advocating "judgment" by being pro life and favoring abstinence, than Obama is advocating "judgment" by advocating abortion under pretty much any circumstances and favoring giving condoms to kids.
Well you have no idea what humility is, otherwise you would prob censor yourself at least a few times. ;)
Nope the woman is telling everybody how to act, very much unlike her small town sinning self, and people are just laughing. Plse go on though... :)
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Deedee.
That is a very pretty eye.
The white of it is pretty clear wouldn't you say?
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Deedee.
That is a very pretty eye.
pssst. I'll tell you what I did later to make it so white ;)
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Well you have no idea what humility is, otherwise you would prob censor yourself at least a few times. ;)
Nope the woman is telling everybody how to act, very much unlike her small town sinning self, and people are just laughing. Plse go on though... :)
lol. Talk about judgmental. lol. You have no earthly idea whether I have "no idea what humility is." You can be funny sometimes. :)
How is Palin "sinning"?
I take it you think politicians who are pro choice and favor giving condoms to kids are not "telling everybody how to act"?
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The white of it is pretty clear wouldn't you say?
Must've drank some grape juice or something. Everytime I drink grape juice, the whites of my eyes get real clear, ...unlike their usual bloodshot look. :P
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Nope the woman is telling everybody how to act, very much unlike her small town sinning self, and people are just laughing. Plse go on though... :)
I have to say I'm truly baffled by this choice. I understand that Mccain wanted to attract the female vote away from Obama's camp despite hilary's endorsement of Obama, ...but can it be so simple? I'm saddened.
When you look at previous candidates like Geraldine Ferrarro or Elizabeth Dole, ...this is the best Mccain could do?
It's almost as if they're looking to set the feminist cause back more than a few decades.
To go from a Hilary Clinton as possible Presidential candidate to a Sarah Palin? ???
Or is Mccain so desperate for press coverage for his campaign that he will do anything? ???
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Palin is the anti-woman.
As a woman I was excited when I first read his VP pick [didn't know her] and now am horrified.
Her maniacal view on reproduction, I mean really, I thought equal rights was us being more than baby machines :-\
Another perception - one I did not think of. My stepdaugher [who is US citizen, 1st year old enough to vote] and a couple of her mates are on fire now, when prior they didn't give a rats ass about politics. As a young girl herself, she is horrified the girls mom ran knowing the press would eat her alive. She knows I would walk through fire for her, not ever put her in it. So they will get off their ass and vote now, when prior their only idea of voting was texting in the American Idol winner ::)
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that's like giving an orthodox jew or muslim credit for not eating pork.
they have no choice in the matter otherwise they are hypocrites (I'm talking about the anti-abortion people).
I don't give people credit for not being a hypocrite
We'll just agree to disagree then.
I give people credit for sticking to their guns when their backs are against the wall.
I don't know how an orthodox jew not eating pork is like not getting an abortion when you're 17.
That is unless a durka has a gun pointed to his head and is trying to force him to eat it.
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This doesn't bode well for the Bush agenda of dismantling the constitution then, ...that sounds Anti-American
...and McCain wants to continue more of the same. ???
Stay on target, Red Five.
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Palin is the anti-woman.
As a woman I was excited when I first read his VP pick [didn't know her] and now am horrified.
Her maniacal view on reproduction, I mean really, I thought equal rights was us being more than baby machines :-\
Another perception - one I did not think of. My stepdaugher [who is US citizen, 1st year old enough to vote] and a couple of her mates are on fire now, when prior they didn't give a rats ass about politics. As a young girl herself, she is horrified the girls mom ran knowing the press would eat her alive. She knows I would walk through fire for her, not ever put her in it. So they will get off their ass and vote now, when prior their only idea of voting was texting in the American Idol winner ::)
Huh?
Explain please. How is being pro-life anti-woman?
That's like saying those who are pro-choice are anti-baby.
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Huh?
Explain please. How is being pro-life anti-woman?
That's like saying those who are pro-choice are anti-baby.
Well, I was having a flair for the dramatic with that term actually ;D
It's not the anti-abortion thing, although nice if a 12 yr olds dad rapes her, Palin wants her to have the baby who could possibly have defects as well. It's the contraception issues and other things about her policies. No sex ed. Her subjecting her teen to media crap with this choice, most moms seek to protect. The strange flying around in labour then going back to work 72 hrs after having a baby. Being an avid killer of animals. Wearing fur. Ex-beauty pageant which I could care less about but many women feel is "objectifying", they picket pageants and crap at times. Lots of little things like that...just not the type of female to draw the female vote really was my opinion more.
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Well, I was having a flair for the dramatic with that term actually ;D
It's not the anti-abortion thing, although nice if a 12 yr olds dad rapes her, Palin wants her to have the baby who could possibly have defects as well. It's the contraception issues and other things about her policies. No sex ed. Her subjecting her teen to media crap with this choice, most moms seek to protect. The strange flying around in labour then going back to work 72 hrs after having a baby. Being an avid killer of animals. Wearing fur. Ex-beauty pageant which I could care less about but many women feel is "objectifying", they picket pageants and crap at times. Lots of little things like that...just not the type of female to draw the female vote really was my opinion more.
The baby is innocent. Murder, IMO, is never an option.
Unfortunately anyone that runs for public office is subjecting their family to media scrutiny. It shouldn't be that way. Obama has already spoken and said that family and children are off-limits. Too bad his rabid Obama-Bots won't listen.
She is a hunter and fisherman. That does NOT make her a "killer of animals." Hunters and fisherman eat what they kill and catch.
She wears fur. So what? So does Jag. Does that make her an animal killer by proxy? Do you wear any leather products?
What did you compete in CQ? Body building, fitness, or physique competitions? How is that different from traditional beauty contests?
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The baby is innocent. Murder, IMO, is never an option.
Unfortunately anyone that runs for public office is subjecting their family to media scrutiny. It shouldn't be that way. Obama has already spoken and said that family and children are off-limits. Too bad his rabid Obama-Bots won't listen.
She is a hunter and fisherman. That does NOT make her a "killer of animals." Hunters and fisherman eat what they kill and catch.
She wears fur. So what? So does Jag. Does that make her an animal killer by proxy? Do you wear any leather products?
What did you compete in CQ? Body building, fitness, or physique competitions? How is that different from traditional beauty contests?
I'm not running for VP, and tossing myself into the limelight, so I am not at play here.
I am reffering to what could be a general perception by some women, not my opinions, read around, already reports from women/mothers not being happy.
I already said beauty contests are fine by me, but fact remains some women protest them, literally with signs etc.
Whichever way that is phrased, she kills animals and generally speaking, women are less avid about that. Statistically I assume more men hunt then women [?]
I don't think the "news" coming out [whether true or not from the Enquirer] that she wanted the kid to drop out of school, marry the boy next week, and kid refused will help her win the female vote. Many moms will cringe at that. Same way ppl still think Obama is Muslim, that will stick.
Perception is reality. She simply isn't the best option for the female vote imo. I'd bet his numbers will continue to drop with women.
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I'm not running for VP, and tossing myself into the limelight, so I am not at play here.
I am reffering to what could be a general perception by some women, not my opinions, read around, already reports from women/mothers not being happy.
I already said beauty contests are fine by me, but fact remains some women protest them, literally with signs etc.
Whichever way that is phrased, she kills animals and generally speaking, women are less avid about that. Statistically I assume more men hunt then women [?]
I don't think the "news" coming out [whether true or not from the Enquirer] that she wanted the kid to drop out of school, marry the boy next week, and kid refused will help her win the female vote. Many moms will cringe at that. Same way ppl still think Obama is Muslim, that will stick.
Perception is reality. She simply isn't the best option for the female vote imo. I'd bet his numbers will continue to drop with women.
We'll see come November.
It will be interesting to see how far the extreme left will go to try to destroy this woman and her family. I'm also interested to see how far the extreme right will go to close ranks around her.
I think they're both willing to anything and everything to win the White House.
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We'll see come November.
It will be interesting to see how far the extreme left will go to try to destroy this woman and her family. I'm also interested to see how far the extreme right will go to close ranks around her.
I think they're both willing to anything and everything to win the White House.
Honestly, I think her zealot views will hurt her most. She will do it to herself. I would feel so sympathic towards her, if she wasn't busy trying to ban Alaskan 17yr old girls from getting contraception. She thinks you are old enough to marry and be a mom per her kid, but not have sex? And wants us to leave her kids sex life alone, while she pokes in everyone elses.
The left didn't make her kid pregnant while she preaches abstinence, make her only leave USA once, make her have 2 business discrepencies, make her go to a church where the pastor preaches lunatic things, make her say oil pipelines are god's wishes etc. The list is endless.
Same way the right didn't make Obama go to Wrights church and all that.
We all do what we do, and choose it. Granted the media tears the ass out of it, but with nothing to tear they have a harder time.
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Honestly, I think her zealot views will hurt her most. She will do it to herself. I would feel so sympathic towards her, if she wasn't busy trying to ban Alaskan 17yr old girls from getting contraception. She thinks you are old enough to marry and be a mom per her kid, but not have sex? And wants us to leave her kids sex life alone, while she pokes in everyone elses.
The left didn't make her kid pregnant while she preaches abstinence, make her only leave USA once, make her have 2 business discrepencies, make her go to a church where the pastor preaches lunatic things, make her say oil pipelines are god's wishes etc. The list is endless.
Same way the right didn't make Obama go to Wrights church and all that.
We all do what we do, and choose it. Granted the media tears the ass out of it, but with nothing to tear they have a harder time.
Now she's a zealot?
I'm not a religious person but I don't want my son or daughter's school giving them condoms. Does that make me a zealot too?
Sex education is something I, not schools, should teach my children. Educating students on the reproductive system is one thing. Sex education is something else entirely. They've been teaching sex education for decades now and we still have a problem with teenage pregnancies and single mothers.
I haven't heard Palin telling anyone not to have sex. Don't confuse teaching abstinence with being "told" what do to do. Being a (true) conservative means letting people make their own educated choices and holding them accountable for them (good and bad). I tell my children that I want them to wait until marriage before having a sexual relationship (even though I didn't). It's what I want for them but I know damn well they'll do what they want. Afterall, it's what free people do.
In the end the whole pregnancy thing is still a non-issue. Hell, Obama even said as much.
There are more important things to debate.
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Now she's a zealot?
I'm not a religious person but I don't want my son or daughter's school giving them condoms. Does that make me a zealot too?
Sex education is something I, not schools, should teach my children. Educating students on the reproductive system is one thing. Sex education is something else entirely. They've been teaching sex education for decades now and we still have a problem with teenage pregnancies and single mothers.
I haven't heard Palin telling anyone not to have sex. Don't confuse teaching abstinence with being "told" what do to do. Being a (true) conservative means letting people make their own educated choices and holding them accountable for them (good and bad). I tell my children that I want them to wait until marriage before having a sexual relationship (even though I didn't). It's what I want for them but I know damn well they'll do what they want. Afterall, it's what free people do.
In the end the whole pregnancy thing is still a non-issue. Hell, Obama even said as much.
There are more important things to debate.
Again, it's the attempts to restrict access to contraception for some that is my issue. And in 2008 - yeah, many would say that is a zealot.
I like you don't want my kid giving condoms at school. I'm not keen on that at all personally either.
She wanted to not have it in her home, now her kid is pregnant. Fine her business. But when she wants to not allow other females the right to contraception that is not her business. I don't mean handed out in schools to 14 yrs olds all tacky, I mean voluntary private access to the pill from doctors.
Like you said, it is our choice as parents, not for her to make what your and my daughters can do.If her kids sex life and procreation is not our business, surely our kids is not hers either.
I personally would prefer my daughter wait till marriage also. I would also prefer to be a billionaire. I would prefer to look like Halle Berry. Doubt I will get them all 8)
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Again, it's the attempts to restrict access to contraception for some that is my issue. And in 2008 - yeah, many would say that is a zealot.
I like you don't want my kid giving condoms at school. I'm not keen on that at all personally either.
She wanted to not have it in her home, now her kid is pregnant. Fine her business. But when she wants to not allow other females the right to contraception that is not her business. I don't mean handed out in schools to 14 yrs olds all tacky, I mean voluntary private access to the pill from doctors.
Like you said, it is our choice as parents, not for her to make what your and my daughters can do.If her kids sex life and procreation is not our business, surely our kids is not hers either.
I personally would prefer my daughter wait till marriage also. I would also prefer to be a billionaire. I would prefer to look like Halle Berry. Doubt I will get them all 8)
Since when do teenagers have a "right" to condoms?
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Now she's a zealot?
I'm not a religious person but I don't want my son or daughter's school giving them condoms. Does that make me a zealot too?
Oh Puleaze! Your kid is 7 yrs old. I wouldn't want to see a 7yr old with a condom either.
Cripes... that's one mean water balloon waiting to happen don'tcha think? ;D
Big difference between a 7 yr od getting a condm than a 17 yr. old. HUGE difference!
Sex education is something I, not schools, should teach my children. Educating students on the reproductive system is one thing. Sex education is something else entirely. They've been teaching sex education for decades now and we still have a problem with teenage pregnancies and single mothers.
Then opt your kid OUT of sex education then, ...but the fact remains that kids are going to do what they're going to do. And not ALL parents educate their children, and if educating them means they do what they're going to do in a safer, more responsible way, ...then more power to them.
I haven't heard Palin telling anyone not to have sex. Don't confuse teaching abstinence with being "told" what do to do. Being a (true) conservative means letting people make their own educated choices and holding them accountable for them (good and bad). I tell my children that I want them to wait until marriage before having a sexual relationship (even though I didn't). It's what I want for them but I know damn well they'll do what they want. Afterall, it's what free people do.
Don't confuse teaching abstinence with a pragmatic solution to the challenge of teen pregnancy
In the end the whole pregnancy thing is still a non-issue. Hell, Obama even said as much.
Only in the sense that most Democrats don't get worked into a frenzy frothing at the mouth over these things.
it's the evangelical right that get's rabid about a teen fornicating, and getting pregnant. Quite the hypocritical about face for them.
There are more important things to debate.
Ya, like the 100 years of war some candidates have in store for everyone, ...or their non-existent, impractical plans for solving our dependence on imported oil, or their myopic policies that worsen the debt, cripple the economy, and fertilize terrorrists. But they can't get elected discussing these trainwrecks, ...so they name an even bigger trainwreck as a running mate.
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Since when do teenagers have a "right" to condoms?
Wow, ...we surrrrre do live in different countries in more than just name only!
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Wow, ...we surrrrre do live in different countries in more than just name only!
Duh.
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Duh.
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Honestly, I think her zealot views will hurt her most. She will do it to herself. I would feel so sympathic towards her, if she wasn't busy trying to ban Alaskan 17yr old girls from getting contraception. She thinks you are old enough to marry and be a mom per her kid, but not have sex? And wants us to leave her kids sex life alone, while she pokes in everyone elses.
And she's poking into other kids' sex life HOW?
The left didn't make her kid pregnant while she preaches abstinence, make her only leave USA once, make her have 2 business discrepencies, make her go to a church where the pastor preaches lunatic things, make her say oil pipelines are god's wishes etc. The list is endless.
But, the left is talking out of both sides of their mouth. As I said, it doesn't matter which kind of sex education was advanced, the girl didn't heed it. If Palin backed "comprehensive sex education" and her daughter got knocked up anyway, NOBODY ON THE LEFT would be talking about worthless and ineffective "comprehensive sex education" is or demand that it stopped being funded.
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Since when do teenagers have a "right" to condoms?
They don't.
I guess some like Palin prefer their kids pregnant, which is of course the more preferable option than getting a terminal disease like AIDS.
I'll take my kid using a condom, before I stand over her grave and bury her personally :)
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And she's poking into other kids' sex life HOW?
Read up on her plans she wanted to implement in Wasilla [sp?] I mentioned them already.
But, the left is talking out of both sides of their mouth. As I said, it doesn't matter which kind of sex education was advanced, the girl didn't heed it. If Palin backed "comprehensive sex education" and her daughter got knocked up anyway, NOBODY ON THE LEFT would be talking about worthless and ineffective "comprehensive sex education" is or demand that it stopped being funded.
Totally agree with you on not heeding. I think it is safe to say most teens who get pregnant weren't advised by their parents to do so.
But in the end, if she didn't want ppl to talk about it, common sense says don't slap your family in the spotlight. Right or wrong, fact is it will be talked about. She's the google news headline when I logged on this morning! She's all over the TV and magazines. CNN spent forever discussing it last night. Sites are calling her deplorable nasty names. CQ posting her opinions is nothing, she is headline news. I didn't make that choice - Palins did.
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They don't.
I guess some like Palin prefer their kids pregnant, which is of course the more preferable option than getting a terminal disease like AIDS.
I'll take my kid using a condom, before I stand over her grave and bury her personally :)
No. Some like Palin prefer that their kids NOT ENGAGE IN what causes people to get pregnant or get AIDS, in the first place.
Would you encourage your teen daughter that it's OK to go to a sperm bank, as long she has a healthy dose of pills or a diaphragm?
I guess some people (particularly on the left) keep forgetting that sexual intercourse is HOW WE MAKE BABIES ON THIS PLANET.
If you don’t want, or aren’t in a position to take care of, a baby, engaging in baby-making procedures is just plain dumb.
Then opt your kid OUT of sex education then, ...but the fact remains that kids are going to do what they're going to do. And not ALL parents educate their children, and if educating them means they do what they're going to do in a safer, more responsible way, ...then more power to them.
What you forget, Jaguar, is that teenages ALSO think that they're invincible, that nothing is going to happen to them. What happens if you teach them about using condoms, yet they DON'T use them? They won't be any less knocked up; The clap or genital warts (which condoms CAN'T STOP, by the way) aren't any less there.
Only in the sense that most Democrats don't get worked into a frenzy frothing at the mouth over these things.
it's the evangelical right that get's rabid about a teen fornicating, and getting pregnant. Quite the hypocritical about face for them.
Yep, I'm sure Democrats, whose teen daughters are screwing around, are just cool as cucumbers when they find out about it.
And, what's hypocritical about the stance? The sin is the fornicating, not the baby that resulted from it. That's a human life, which many feel doesn't deserve to be dismembered, simply because Bristol Palin couldn't keep her panties on.
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No. Some like Palin prefer that their kids NOT ENGAGE IN what causes people to get pregnant or get AIDS, in the first place.
Yes, and to use Bush's term - Heckofva job there Palin.
I see her teen really avoided haviing sex, thats obvious. Bang up job there. :-\
Would you encourage your teen daughter that it's OK to go to a sperm bank, as long she has a healthy dose of pills or a diaphragm?
I guess some people (particularly on the left) keep forgetting that sexual intercourse is HOW WE MAKE BABIES ON THIS PLANET.
If you don’t want, or aren’t in a position to take care of, a baby, engaging in baby-making procedures is just plain dumb.
I totally agree baby making efforts when not ready are dumb, not like I went that route, not my kid either.
What you forget, Jaguar, is that teenages ALSO think that they're invincible, that nothing is going to happen to them. What happens if you teach them about using condoms, yet they DON'T use them? They won't be any less knocked up; The clap or genital warts (which condoms CAN'T STOP, by the way) aren't any less there.
And exactly - teens do think they are invincible. And they all do what we tell them not to. Did Palin tell her kid to take pics with liquor and post them online? Tell her to get knocked up from a high school dropout?
So why think telling them not to have sex is foolproof lol.
Yep, I'm sure Democrats, whose teen daughters are screwing around, are just cool as cucumbers when they find out about it.
And, what's hypocritical about the stance? The sin is the fornicating, not the baby that resulted from it. That's a human life, which many feel doesn't deserve to be dismembered, simply because Bristol Palin couldn't keep her panties on.
We actually agree more than we disagree. No baby in my minds is ever a "sin", and the thought of that isn't cool with me.
I've been flamed all over the board saying the issue was the fornicating, but people been telling me thats all good as shes keeping it ???
So, it's like their premise is - have sex like bunnies, get pregnant, as long as you keep it. If all our teens do that, we'll all be in shambles in 20 years.
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They don't.
I guess some like Palin prefer their kids pregnant, which is of course the more preferable option than getting a terminal disease like AIDS.
I'll take my kid using a condom, before I stand over her grave and bury her personally :)
Giving teenagers the pill and condoms hasn't exactly been a smashing success.
Also, to think boys will consistently use condoms is unrealistic. And stopping the spread of disease? Would you be comfortable with your child having sex with someone who has herpes, so long as he used a condom?
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There is more to the faith than simply "Thou shalt not."
Tom Minnery
Focus Action
The political Left seems determined to cast doubt on Sarah Palin as a strong vice presidential candidate, but in the process it may be learning something about the heart of biblical Christianity.
When it first became widely known that Gov. Palin’s daughter Bristol was pregnant out of wedlock, commentators on the Left – some with palpable excitement – began to wonder whether this would dampen the roar of enthusiasm with which social conservatives greeted Palin’s candidacy. After all, don’t evangelicals oppose the idea of sex apart from marriage?
But that hope on the Left is dying quickly, given the continuing support of Palin by Dr. James Dobson and other evangelical leaders. The fact is that Christianity means more than simply avoiding the wrong, because in this life none of us can accomplish that. It means repenting of the wrong and then making it right, thereby encouraging the wronged parties to forgive.
We don’t know the dynamics inside the Palin family, but it seems these principles are in play. The baby will be born rather than aborted quietly, and the young parents, at least at this point, intend to marry. Repentance seems to be embedded into this set of circumstances, and forgiveness from the family seems evident in the public statements that followed the news of the situation.
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There is more to the faith than simply "Thou shalt not."
Tom Minnery
Focus Action
The political Left seems determined to cast doubt on Sarah Palin as a strong vice presidential candidate, but in the process it may be learning something about the heart of biblical Christianity.
When it first became widely known that Gov. Palin’s daughter Bristol was pregnant out of wedlock, commentators on the Left – some with palpable excitement – began to wonder whether this would dampen the roar of enthusiasm with which social conservatives greeted Palin’s candidacy. After all, don’t evangelicals oppose the idea of sex apart from marriage?
But that hope on the Left is dying quickly, given the continuing support of Palin by Dr. James Dobson and other evangelical leaders. The fact is that Christianity means more than simply avoiding the wrong, because in this life none of us can accomplish that. It means repenting of the wrong and then making it right, thereby encouraging the wronged parties to forgive.
We don’t know the dynamics inside the Palin family, but it seems these principles are in play. The baby will be born rather than aborted quietly, and the young parents, at least at this point, intend to marry. Repentance seems to be embedded into this set of circumstances, and forgiveness from the family seems evident in the public statements that followed the news of the situation.
Good commentary. This Palin selection and her family have liberals in an utter state of confusion.
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Giving teenagers the pill and condoms hasn't exactly been a smashing success.
Also, to think boys will consistently use condoms is unrealistic. And stopping the spread of disease? Would you be comfortable with your child having sex with someone who has herpes, so long as he used a condom?
Agree they are not 100%. Don't get me wrong, I don't engage in such things myself, and my feelings on these matters are like hers actually, but I am realistic. Palins plan for abstinence for her kids did not work, that's a fact. To wish wash around that is silly. Bush is into abstinence, hear me slamming him?
Fact remains, apart from the fact my kid is not the one who is a teen mom, I am not running for VP as I feel my positions are the best. I only push my positions on my kid [and you guys here ;D], so they aren't relevant to others.
Bottom line, if this pregnancy wasn't of interest media wouldn't cover it. I'm not in charge of it all, and feel bad for the girl [not the mom though]. A family values party, and abstience preaching mother with a pregnant teen is simply an oxymoron, not matter how anyone plays it.
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Agree they are not 100%. Don't get me wrong, I don't engage in such things myself, and my feelings on these matters are like hers actually, but I am realistic. Palins plan for abstinence for her kids did not work, that's a fact. To wish wash around that is silly. Bush is into abstinence, hear me slamming him?
Fact remains, apart from the fact my kid is not the one who is a teen mom, I am not running for VP as I feel my positions are the best. I only push my positions on my kid [and you guys here ;D], so they aren't relevant to others.
Bottom line, if this pregnancy wasn't of interest media wouldn't cover it. I'm not in charge of it all, and feel bad for the girl [not the mom though]. A family values party, and abstience preaching mother with a pregnant teen is simply an oxymoron, not matter how anyone plays it.
Palin's plans for all of her kids did not work? We know one kid is pregnant. How do you know what her other children have done?
I really have a different take on this whole "sex ed" thing. I think we both agree that kids should not have sex. If that's the case, then we should reinforce responsible behavior with our kids. In my view, giving a kid condoms isn't being realistic; it's a copout. It's surrender. It sends a mixed message.
I have no problem with Palin or any other parent talking about abstinence, regardless of what mistakes their kids make. If you are sending the right message, that message doesn't change because a kid makes bad choices. The truth is the truth. I think the way Palin's family has handled these family crises (Down's Syndrome baby and teen pregnancy) sets a terrific example for other parents who may go through these tough times.
Why do you say Palin is "preaching"? Do you consider those who advocate giving condoms to kids as preachers too? Are those folks trying to force their views on others?
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Ob brother...
Palin's oldest daughter steps out of the plane today, as big as a house for all the camereas.
She was pretty skinny just 5 days ago.
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Palin's plans for all of her kids did not work? We know one kid is pregnant. How do you know what her other children have done?
I never said all her kids. The women has a pregnant teenager. Her plan did not work in her case obviously. My plan for my daughter to make billions and look after me also fell short 8)
I really have a different take on this whole "sex ed" thing. I think we both agree that kids should not have sex. If that's the case, then we should reinforce responsible behavior with our kids. In my view, giving a kid condoms isn't being realistic; it's a copout. It's surrender. It sends a mixed message.
I've said the same thing. It's a fine line. Don't want to encourage sex. My position is teach morals yes, but if a kid is going to have sex [which stats show most are] at least them at least be responsible about it. Sex with protection is way better than sex with none, and AIDS at worst case.
It's an oxymoron. Palin didn't think her kid was old enough to have sex - but she is old enough to have a child, be responsible for another human being 24 hrs a day, get married, in theory financially sustain herself and a baby [not that she will, but many young girls would have to] maintain a household with all the duties....and have sex as well.
Yes, it's better to be celibate - but rather than the above, surely it would be better if the kid was having sex with protection, starting her college career and most of all happy. Either way she is having sex. I doubt she is thrilled right now to be international news.
I have no problem with Palin or any other parent talking about abstinence, regardless of what mistakes their kids make. If you are sending the right message, that message doesn't change because a kid makes bad choices. The truth is the truth. I think the way Palin's family has handled these family crises (Down's Syndrome baby and teen pregnancy) sets a terrific example for other parents who may go through these tough times.
Neither do I per se. No one is perfect. But there is a deep irony in someone talking abstinence while their teen is pregnant.
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I've said the same thing. It's a fine line. Don't want to encourage sex. My position is teach morals yes, but if a kid is going to have sex [which stats show most are] at least them at least be responsible about it. Sex with protection is way better than sex with none,
Yes, it's better to be celibate - but rather than the above, surely it would be better if the kid was having sex with protection,
i havent read the whole thread or followed the story as closely as i should but has it been established that those kids did not use protection? what im saying is sometimes protection fails.
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I never said all her kids. The women has a pregnant teenager. Her plan did not work in her case obviously. My plan for my daughter to make billions and look after me also fell short 8)
I've said the same thing. It's a fine line. Don't want to encourage sex. My position is teach morals yes, but if a kid is going to have sex [which stats show most are] at least them at least be responsible about it. Sex with protection is way better than sex with none, and AIDS at worst case.
It's an oxymoron. Palin didn't think her kid was old enough to have sex - but she is old enough to have a child, be responsible for another human being 24 hrs a day, get married, in theory financially sustain herself and a baby [not that she will, but many young girls would have to] maintain a household with all the duties....and have sex as well.
Yes, it's better to be celibate - but rather than the above, surely it would be better if the kid was having sex with protection, starting her college career and most of all happy. Either way she is having sex. I doubt she is thrilled right now to be international news.
Neither do I per se. No one is perfect. But there is a deep irony in someone talking abstinence while their teen is pregnant.
I interpreted this to mean all of her kids, but you've clarified:
Palins plan for abstinence for her kids did not work, that's a fact.
We are making quite a few assumptions. Do we know whether the daughter made the decision to keep the baby? I've read the daughter isn't being forced to get married.
I think we agree on a lot of this. I just don't take the view that kids cannot control themselves. And from a practical standpoint, condoms don't work because I don't believe people will consistently use them.
But what about the preaching part? Do you think someone who promotes condoms to kids is preaching?
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Oh Puleaze! Your kid is 7 yrs old. I wouldn't want to see a 7yr old with a condom either.
Cripes... that's one mean water balloon waiting to happen don'tcha think? ;D
Big difference between a 7 yr od getting a condm than a 17 yr. old. HUGE difference!
My daughter is 9 but will be in Middle School next year where it's taught. My son is 14 and started HS.
Then opt your kid OUT of sex education then, ...but the fact remains that kids are going to do what they're going to do. And not ALL parents educate their children, and if educating them means they do what they're going to do in a safer, more responsible way, ...then more power to them.
Don't confuse teaching abstinence with a pragmatic solution to the challenge of teen pregnancy
I probably will. You're missing the point here, Judi. Both sides want the government involved in this process. I say piss off to BOTH sides.
Only in the sense that most Democrats don't get worked into a frenzy frothing at the mouth over these things.
it's the evangelical right that get's rabid about a teen fornicating, and getting pregnant. Quite the hypocritical about face for them.
You're right. It is hypocritical of the Christian right to preach abstinence and engage in pre-marital sex.
However, I call bullshit on the left. This isn't about a 17 year old girl getting pregnant. It's about the kid not getting an abortion and marrying the kid that got her pregnant because her mother's a Christian. Let's call this what it really is shall we? Besides, do you know for fact that the daughter ever shares the same political and religious beliefs as her parents? I know at that age I sure as frak didn't agree with mine.
Ya, like the 100 years of war some candidates have in store for everyone, ...or their non-existent, impractical plans for solving our dependence on imported oil, or their myopic policies that worsen the debt, cripple the economy, and fertilize terrorrists. But they can't get elected discussing these trainwrecks, ...so they name an even bigger trainwreck as a running mate.
Uh-huh. Because every major war our country has engaged in was done with a Republican at the helm. The left has also done a spectacular job in reducing our dependency on foreign oil and our migration to alternative energy. They've also done a great job with NAFTA, the Federal Reserve, social security, education, and reigning in the bloated government spending.
Go ahead and keep thinking that the Democrats are soooooooooo much more different than their Republican friends.
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W8 - please clarify, your kid is 9, they start stuff at age 10? I'm not familar with the system, please explain if you can. That seems kinda uncool.
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Since when do teenagers have a "right" to condoms?
don't teenagers have a right to health care?
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don't teenagers have a right to health care?
If my "health care" you mean guaranteed medical treatment, the answer is "no," unless you show up at an emergency room (anti-patient dumping laws), have insurance, or some other kind of coverage.
Condoms are not healthcare.
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W8 - please clarify, your kid is 9, they start stuff at age 10? I'm not familar with the system, please explain if you can. That seems kinda uncool.
My son's Middle School covered "sex" Ed.
My daughter turns 10 next month. She starts Middle School next year.
I'm putting her into a private school for Middle School.
And no, it's not cool at all. I'm the parent - not the state.
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My position on the matter is simple: A person has the right to know how their body functions. PERIOD!
If you're old enough to have a child, ...you're old enough to know how to prevent yourself from having a child
It's also NOT just about preventing unwanted pregnancies as well.
I believe 'sex education' should be all encompassing, including discussion on the emotional & psychological aspects of engaging in sex. I think an 'abstinence only' type of education is severely lacking, and places kids at a tremendous disadvantage. it's as stupid, and as ineffective as Just say NO!"
There are plenty of good sex educators out there who teach abstinence in an effective way, if that's what you want your kids learning, ...but it's also encompassing. One good example is Pam Stenzel "Sex has a price tag"
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My position on the matter is simple: A person has the right to know how their body functions. PERIOD!
If you're old enough to have a child, ...you're old enough to know how to prevent yourself from having a child
Judi, I never said they shouldn't educate students on the human reproductive system. We're talking apples and oranges here.
Sex education is a personal thing. It is the responsibility of the parent to educate their child on such matters. It is not the responsibility of the state.
See, here's where you and I part ways. I believe in individual liberty and the personal responsibility. It is MY responsibility to be a parent and teach my son and daughter how to be responsible adults that contribute to society. I assumed that responsibility (whether I wanted it or not) when my wife became pregnant. I do not think it is the role of government to teach my son or daughter about birth control nor is it their role to teach abstinence.
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My daughter is 9 but will be in Middle School next year where it's taught. My son is 14 and started HS.
How could your daughter be 9? Two years ago when you told me her age, ...she was only 7. :D
I probably will. You're missing the point here, Judi. Both sides want the government involved in this process. I say piss off to BOTH sides.
I can't disagree with you there, ...but the fact of the matter is, we all want the government involved in some aspect of our lives. We want the government to provide the framework from which our economy can thrive, to provide the security with which we may live peaceful lives. By that token, while you or I may assume our parental responsibilities as far as our offspring may be concerned, ...there are neglectful parents out there. And where neglectful parents abound, who can't, don't, won't teach their kids right from wrong, ...I want there to be someone teaching them right from wrong.
You're right. It is hypocritical of the Christian right to preach abstinence and engage in pre-marital sex.
Finally you're seeing the light. It's like Craig. I don't think anybody cares that the man was in the closet, ...it was just the hypocrisy of it all, ...same with governor Spitzer.
However, I call bullshit on the left. This isn't about a 17 year old girl getting pregnant. It's about the kid not getting an abortion and marrying the kid that got her pregnant because her mother's a Christian. Let's call this what it really is shall we? Besides, do you know for fact that the daughter ever shares the same political and religious beliefs as her parents? I know at that age I sure as frak didn't agree with mine.
I don't think anybody is angry that Bristol didn't have an abortion, (...except possibly Levi who is quoted as saying he doesn't want kids) at least certainly not the left, ...pro-choice supporters are all for a woman or child deciding to keep her child. That's what the idea of choice is all about. What are up in arms about is the controversy surrounding this woman, and the lack of foresight seemingly displayed by McCain in his choice of running mate. He looks like a desperate man grasping at straws, making a politically strategic move in what he perceives to be his short term best interests, and putting the best interests of the country second.
Let me ask you a few questions w8lftr, ...you can answer on the boards, in PM, or even choose not to answer.
I know as a former Navy man yourself, you might find this question a little too sensitive for public input, ...but, ...in your heart of hearts, ...do you truly believe that McCain was thinking of America first when he made his VP selection, ...or himself? ...and do you think he vetted this woman properly?
Uh-huh. Because every major war our country has engaged in was done with a Republican at the helm. The left has also done a spectacular job in reducing our dependency on foreign oil and our migration to alternative energy. They've also done a great job with NAFTA, the Federal Reserve, social security, education, and reigning in the bloated government spending.
Go ahead and keep thinking that the Democrats are soooooooooo much more different than their Republican friends.
There's no doubt US energy policy is outdated, and outmoded, and has been neglected for the past 30 yrs.
That's why so many have been energized in this election, ...because they want CHANGE!
McCain hardly represents that.
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My son's Middle School covered "sex" Ed.
My daughter turns 10 next month. She starts Middle School next year.
I'm putting her into a private school for Middle School.
And no, it's not cool at all. I'm the parent - not the state.
Thanks 4 the reply, and yes I totally see your point. Good luck with that.
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If my "health care" you mean guaranteed medical treatment, the answer is "no," unless you show up at an emergency room (anti-patient dumping laws), have insurance, or some other kind of coverage.
Condoms are not healthcare.
please jebus ....please give me patience......
condoms are a prophylactic (i.e they prevent harm which is also the same thing as preserving/defending health) which is why condoms are HEALTH CARE
extra bonus - they also greatly reduce the possibility of unplanned pregnancy
::) ::) ::) ::)
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please jebus ....please give me patience......
condoms are a prophylactic (i.e they prevent harm which is also the same thing as preserving/defending health) which is why condoms are HEALTH CARE
extra bonus - they also greatly reduce the possibility of unplanned pregnancy
::) ::) ::) ::)
And they make darned fine water balloons too. ;D
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Judi, I never said they shouldn't educate students on the human reproductive system. We're talking apples and oranges here.
Sex education is a personal thing. It is the responsibility of the parent to educate their child on such matters. It is not the responsibility of the state.
See, here's where you and I part ways. I believe in individual liberty and the personal responsibility. It is MY responsibility to be a parent and teach my son and daughter how to be responsible adults that contribute to society. I assumed that responsibility (whether I wanted it or not) when my wife became pregnant. I do not think it is the role of government to teach my son or daughter about birth control nor is it their role to teach abstinence.
Yep. I agree.
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How could your daughter be 9? Two years ago when you told me her age, ...she was only 7. :D
LOL... yeah... two years ago she was 7.
I can't disagree with you there, ...but the fact of the matter is, we all want the government involved in some aspect of our lives. We want the government to provide the framework from which our economy can thrive, to provide the security with which we may live peaceful lives. By that token, while you or I may assume our parental responsibilities as far as our offspring may be concerned, ...there are neglectful parents out there. And where neglectful parents abound, who can't, don't, won't teach their kids right from wrong, ...I want there to be someone teaching them right from wrong.
I want the government to be minimal. Provide for our social infrastructure, country's defense (not durkadurkastan, Georgia, etc.), and provide an equal playing field for commerce. I don't want the government telling me I can't eat what I want, smoke a joint if I have MS (but please drink that beer!), or telling my kids to wait until marriage before sex or how to put a condom on.
As far as bad parents go.... just because some asshat drops the ball and doesn't teach their children right from wrong isn't an open invitation for the government to get involved. WE have a responsibility as a community to aid our brothers and sisters in their time of need. Be wary of what you give the government the power to do - you may not get it back.
Finally you're seeing the light. It's like Craig. I don't think anybody cares that the man was in the closet, ...it was just the hypocrisy of it all, ...same with governor Spitzer.
Never had a problem seeing it. Plenty of asshats on both sides of the aisle. I know this and laugh at all of them.
I don't think anybody is angry that Bristol didn't have an abortion, (...except possibly Levi who is quoted as saying he doesn't want kids) at least certainly not the left, ...pro-choice supporters are all for a woman or child deciding to keep her child. That's what the idea of choice is all about. What are up in arms about is the controversy surrounding this woman, and the lack of foresight seemingly displayed by McCain in his choice of running mate. He looks like a desperate man grasping at straws, making a politically strategic move in what he perceives to be his short term best interests, and putting the best interests of the country second.
What bothers me about this is that the left is trying to make a big deal of it. OMG, another teen from a God-Bot family got preggers. Stop the presses!
I don't care, Judi. Let's have an intelligent discussion about the issues (even if both candidates suck balls politically. you know I think Obama's a cool cat).
Let me ask you a few questions w8lftr, ...you can answer on the boards, in PM, or even choose not to answer.
I know as a former Navy man yourself, you might find this question a little too sensitive for public input, ...but, ...in your heart of hearts, ...do you truly believe that McCain was thinking of America first when he made his VP selection, ...or himself? ...and do you think he vetted this woman properly?
I think the choice was TOTALLY political and I think it was a shrewd move on his part. Only time will tell if his gamble pays off.
I also think that men like McCain think of country first. I think the same of Obama.
I don't agree with how they want to fix things.
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please jebus ....please give me patience......
condoms are a prophylactic (i.e they prevent harm which is also the same thing as preserving/defending health) which is why condoms are HEALTH CARE
extra bonus - they also greatly reduce the possibility of unplanned pregnancy
::) ::) ::) ::)
O.K. You believe condoms are health care and teenagers have a right to condoms. Good for you. ::)
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O.K. You believe condoms are health care and teenagers have a right to condoms. Good for you. ::)
I believe it's better to give them access to condoms than to find one knocked up or infested with the HIV.
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And they make darned fine water balloons too. ;D
Senator Craig packs his lunch in them too.
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O.K. You believe condoms are health care and teenagers have a right to condoms. Good for you. ::)
just so we're clear
are you saying that condoms are not health care?
no joke (notice - no underline or bold or big letters)
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I believe it's better to give them access to condoms than to find one knocked up or infested with the HIV.
Fine. Then YOU give your son or daughter condoms. If you have children I hope you have the kind of relationship where respect is a two-way street and they can openly talk to you about such matters.
And the last time I checked we all have access to them. You can go to any pharmacy or local grocery store and buy them. That's where I get mine. ;D
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I believe it's better to give them access to condoms than to find one knocked up or infested with the HIV.
Except they don't use them consistently.
I've posted comments about HIV a while back, but Tony Brown wrote some very interesting things about HIV. I don't think it's a major threat to heterosexuals in the U.S.
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Fine. Then YOU give your son or daughter condoms. If you have children I hope you have the kind of relationship where respect is a two-way street and they can openly talk to you about such matters.
And the last time I checked we all have access to them. You can go to any pharmacy or local grocery store and buy them. That's where I get mine. ;D
so if no talk (or providing) condoms then also no talk about abstinence
they are literally two sides of the same coin
if you can't abstain ..... at least have protection (from disease and un-wanted pregnancy)
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Fine. Then YOU give your son or daughter condoms. If you have children I hope you have the kind of relationship where respect is a two-way street and they can openly talk to you about such matters.
And the last time I checked we all have access to them. You can go to any pharmacy or local grocery store and buy them. That's where I get mine. ;D
so if no talk (or providing) condoms then also no talk about abstinence
they are literally two sides of the same coin
if you can't abstain ..... at least have protection (from disease and un-wanted pregnancy)
You lost me, Homer. What's your statement here?
I believe in condom use - they help in the prevention of unplanned pregnancy and transmission of STDs.
I've made statements here that I don't support the teaching of sex education or abstinence in school. That is the responsibility of the parent. You sorta take on that role when you bring a child into this fraked up world.
So... what are you saying to me?
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LOL... yeah... two years ago she was 7.
I want the government to be minimal. Provide for our social infrastructure, country's defense (not durkadurkastan, Georgia, etc.), and provide an equal playing field for commerce. I don't want the government telling me I can't eat what I want, smoke a joint if I have MS (but please drink that beer!), or telling my kids to wait until marriage before sex or how to put a condom on.
You know a vote for McCain will bring you precisely that, ...and they'll prolly tell you to drink budweiser too :D
As far as bad parents go.... just because some asshat drops the ball and doesn't teach their children right from wrong isn't an open invitation for the government to get involved.
This is where you and I disagree again. I would make darned sure I taught my kids about fire prevention etc., etc.,
but if the 'asshat' as you call it living next door does not, my house goes up in smoke along with his. We can only teach our children our values, ...we don't always have the ability to teach other people's kids, and I want someone teaching little Johnny next door that it's not good to play with matches.
WE have a responsibility as a community to aid our brothers and sisters in their time of need.
Better be careful, ...you're sounding more and more like a liberal socialist commie everyday, :D
...at least that I'm sure will be the accusations hurled in your direction. {lol}
Be wary of what you give the government the power to do - you may not get it back.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/hmmm.gif)
Umm, ...you taking about the Patriot Act, ...the Military Commissions Act, ...the Bill of Rights or the Constitution?
What bothers me about this is that the left is trying to make a big deal of it. OMG, another teen from a God-Bot family got preggers. Stop the presses!
I guess when the hypocrisy's and failures of the right are an everyday occurrence, it's old hat and to be expected.
No big surprise there I suppose. I can see where someone would get jaded and feel hypocrisy fatigue regularly. :D
I don't care, Judi. Let's have an intelligent discussion about the issues (even if both candidates suck balls politically. you know I think Obama's a cool cat).
I think the choice was TOTALLY political and I think it was a shrewd move on his part. Only time will tell if his gamble pays off.
I don't think his move was shrewd at all. I think it was a reckless gamble that put his interests before the country's.
I also think that men like McCain think of country first. I think the same of Obama.
I don't agree with how they want to fix things.
This is another area where we part company.
I know Obama wants to fix things, and he inspires more & more people to feel the same way everyday
I honestly sometimes wonder if McCain does want to fix things, or if he just wants to get elected. :-\
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Senator Craig packs his lunch in them too.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shocked.gif)
OMG!!! I can't believe you said that.
I gotta go. I'm laughing so hard I have to pee.
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You lost me, Homer. What's your statement here?
I believe in condom use - they help in the prevention of unplanned pregnancy and transmission of STDs.
I've made statements here that I don't support the teaching of sex education or abstinence in school. That is the responsibility of the parent. You sorta take on that role when you bring a child into this fraked up world.
So... what are you saying to me?
I was talking to Beach Bunny
you obviously understand what I"m talking about
I am baffled why Beach Bum thinks that condoms don't protect health
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You know a vote for McCain will bring you precisely that, ...and they'll prolly tell you to drink budweiser too :D
I'm not voting for McCain OR Obama.
This is where you and I disagree again. I would make darned sure I taught my kids about fire prevention etc., etc.,
but if the 'asshat' as you call it living next door does not, my house goes up in smoke along with his. We can only teach our children our values, ...we don't always have the ability to teach other people's kids, and I want someone teaching little Johnny next door that it's not good to play with matches.
Apples and oranges, Judi. Apples and oranges. Sex is a personal issue. Public safety is just common sense.
Better be careful, ...you're sounding more and more like a liberal socialist commie everyday, :D
...at least that I'm sure will be the accusations hurled in your direction. {lol}
Be wary of what you give the government the power to do - you may not get it back.
The last thing anyone will ever accuse me of is being a commie since I frown on big government. A liberal I can live with since that's a complement. A liberal believes in individual freedom and liberty. Something today's left-wing socialists or right wing extreme God-Bots do not believe in.
I guess when the hypocrisy's and failures of the right are an everyday occurrence, it's old hat and to be expected.
No big surprise there I suppose. I can see where someone would get jaded and feel hypocrisy fatigue regularly. :D
I don't think his move was shrewd at all. I think it was a reckless gamble that put his interests before the country's.
This is another area where we part company. I know Obama wants to fix things, inspires more of the same in the people
I honestly sometimes wonder if McCain does want to fix things, or if he just wants to get elected. :-\
We're allowed to disagree. At least for now while the government says we can.
I think they both want to fix things and they both want to get elected. I think that's a gimme.
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just so we're clear
are you saying that condoms are not health care?
no joke (notice - no underline or bold or big letters)
Let's not waste each other's time. I think you probably post on here while you're high, which explains why you don't make any dang sense. (I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, instead of simply concluding that you're not very bright.) Carry on. ::)
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Let's not waste each other's time. I think you probably post on here while you're high, which explains why you don't make any dang sense. (I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, instead of simply concluding that you're not very bright.) Carry on. ::)
why don't you just save us both some time and ANSWER THE QUESTION
how about this....are condoms not a form of health care?
the only reason I ask is because you seem to be mocking the idea with this statement
O.K. You believe condoms are health care and teenagers have a right to condoms. Good for you. ::)
why not just clearly define your position by answering the question?
come out of the closet and own your position and stop being so coy
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Let's not waste each other's time. I think you probably post on here while you're high, which explains why you don't make any dang sense. (I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, instead of simply concluding that you're not very bright.) Carry on. ::)
lmao
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There's no point in debating with Beach Bum. He will either change the subject, throw in some trivial information, or just use the classic; ::)
Permanent case of Sun Stroke from combing the beaches all day would be my guess... ;D
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I'm not voting for McCain OR Obama.
How about Biden, ...will you vote for him? :D
Apples and oranges, Judi. Apples and oranges. Sex is a personal issue. Public safety is just common sense.
You don't think STD's, the knowledge of them, how to spot them, & how to prevent them is a public safety issue?
Something tells me you skipped out on those lovely military training films about syphillis dintcha? c'mon fess up. :D
The last thing anyone will ever accuse me of is being a commie since I frown on big government. A liberal I can live with since that's a complement. A liberal believes in individual freedom and liberty. Something today's left-wing socialists or right wing extreme God-Bots do not believe in.
Oh Puleaze! Haven't you been paying attention? Anytime you say something that the God-bots disagree with,
...you're a lib, or a muslim, commie pinko bastard, terrorist apologist or any other name they choose to throw at you regardless of how far away from the profile you are.
We're allowed to disagree. At least for now while the government says we can.
If the present admin's policies is in any way representative, we're not and disagreement will get you fired PRONTO!
If you don't believe me, ...ask all those lawyers from the justice dept. Heck, ...even troopers in Alaska know that. :D
I think they both want to fix things and they both want to get elected. I think that's a gimme.
Again I disagree. I think only one wants to fix things. I think the other wants to get elected before he croaks,
...but hey, we don't always have to agree. we can still disagree and still be friends
One thing I think we do both agree on though is ... PIZZA is GOOD! :D
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How about Biden, ...will you vote for him? :D
No. He's an asshole.
You don't think STD's, the knowledge of them, how to spot them, & how to prevent them is a public safety issue?
Something tells me you skipped out on those lovely military training films about syphillis dintcha? c'mon fess up. :D
Again, it's called educating yourself. Sex is a personal and private thing. I don't want the government involved in my personal life. It opens the door to too much shit.
When I served in the Navy we watched some... interesting films. I was property of the U.S. Government. I considered it employee training. Big difference.
Oh Puleaze! Haven't you been paying attention? Anytime you say something that the God-bots disagree with,
...you're a lib, or a muslim, commie pinko bastard, terrorist apologist or any other name they choose to throw at you regardless of how far away from the profile you are.
And when ever I say anything the ghey socialists disagree with I'm a neocon, fascist, God-Bot, Repthuglican, etc. What's your point exactly?
If the present admin's policies is in any way representative, we're not and disagreement will get you fired PRONTO!
If you don't believe me, ...ask all those lawyers from the justice dept. Heck, ...even troopers in Alaska know that. :D
Again I disagree. I think only one wants to fix things. I think the other wants to get elected before he croaks,
...but hey, we don't always have to agree. we can still disagree and still be friends
One thing I think we do both agree on though is ... PIZZA is GOOD! :D
Get the door... it's Dominos. ;D