Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: KillerMonk on September 02, 2008, 08:34:54 AM
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Discuss ???
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no cuz its cheating.....duhhhh
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no cuz its cheating.....duhhhh
Is it cheating if everyone's doing it? A level playing field, so to speak?
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Obviosly,but when you have idiots like those in the media feeding utter lies about steroids to the lemming in the public and idiots like Joe"the dumbest man in the senate" Biden passing laws against their use,they will always be banned.
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There was a guy playing Rugby League about 6 years ago and he underwent a full knee reconstruction.The Doctor told him it was probally career ending injury.
6 months later his leg with the reconstruction was half the size of his other leg and rehabillitation was going very slowly and saw his career crumble.This is when he decided to turn to steroids in months of using anabolics he was training at a reduced capacity but they played a vital role in his increase in strength and rehabilitation to the point of full recovery.
He then went on to play rugby league the next season 100%.
But instead of giving up the steroids he continued using them, out of no where he was one of the most intmidating forwards in rugby leauge.
He then went on to represent his State in league, a huge honour then to represent his country after 18 months he was finally random drug tested and was caught.
Players who played against said it was like hitting a brick out house in tackling him,
He was suspended for one year and made a comeback clean but he was only half the player when he was on roids and later retired.
But he said he was not sorry because they helped him resume his career.
Food for thought.
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Of course
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I say yes, let them all do steroids.
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no cuz its cheating.....duhhhh
No,humans all have different hormone levels. This can be equalized with the use of steroids.
It makes the game more fair and interesting.
I don't see the problem.
But right now athletes still use them, even though they don't have "the right" So it doesn't really matter.
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Stop Capitalizing The First letter Of Each Of Your Words, It's Annoying And Unnecessary
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First, I want to make a distinction between a rights a person has as a private citizen and the rights they have when they voluntarily join an organization. In the case of a sporting organization such as say the NBA, IFBB, Football Boxing, MLB they can, for the most part, make any rules they want and the rules they make are purely arbitrary. They could easily declare 4 strikes or 2 strikes for baseball, 75 yards or 125 yards for a football field, 10 rounds or 25 rounds for boxing, etc. They can arbitrarily ban anything they want be it Coca Cola, caffeine, sweet potatoes or anabolic steroids. They can also require anything they want such as you have to wear a helmet, or shorts, or yellow shoes, not swear or make obscene gestures, etc. In that sense, an athlete has no rights other than the right to agree or disagree with the terms and rules and whether or not they choose to participate.
As a private citizen things are much different. We have a Constitution that is very specific as to the role of government. One of them is to protect people from each other not to protect you from yourself, i.e., the right to personal freedom. In such case, the question is not necessarily whether something is good or bad for you but rather who should decide. If someone wants to eat oat meal and whey protein for breakfast or ice cream and butter sticks it is clear what is better for you but who should decide, you or the government? Health care cost with go down tremendously if we required everyone to exercise and eat healthy. But are you willing to give up your personal freedom and have others tell and require you to do what is good for you? If someone wants to mutilate their bodies with body piercing and splitting their tongue to look like a lizard I think they're nuts but it shouldn't be my or anyone's else business as long as they aren't hurting or bothering anyone. If someone wants to drink beer and get plastered just to get away from it all for a while or smoke a fatty it's none of my business. I don't want LE busting into people'ss home and putting them in jail. If someone wants to use steroids to help with athletic performance or just look better it's their decision as long as they don't hurt or bother anyone.
To summarize, athletes have no "right" to use steroids or anything else if their organization prohibits it. A private citizen, if you believe in personal freedom, indeed has the right to use steroids or anything they want as long as it doesn't impede on the freedom of others.
* awaiting Moosejay's approval *
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Doesn't matter whether they have a right or not. Top class athletes will do anything to win - even at the cost of risking their health / rep if caught.
That attitude is not unique to the athletic world - in business/politics, etc people will look for anything that can be used for leverage/advantage if the reward is worthwhile.
Its only cheating if you get caught.
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just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it right however! sounds like a peer pressure issue more than just using them to get an "edge" on your opponent.
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First, I want to make a distinction between a rights a person has as a private citizen and the rights they have when they voluntarily join an organization. In the case of a sporting organization such as say the NBA, IFBB, Football Boxing, MLB they can, for the most part, make any rules they want and the rules they make are purely arbitrary. They could easily declare 4 strikes or 2 strikes for baseball, 75 yards or 125 yards for a football field, 10 rounds or 25 rounds for boxing, etc. They can arbitrarily ban anything they want be it Coca Cola, caffeine, sweet potatoes or anabolic steroids. They can also require anything they want such as you have to wear a helmet, or shorts, or yellow shoes, not swear or make obscene gestures, etc. In that sense, an athlete has no rights other than the right to agree or disagree with the terms and rules and whether or not they choose to participate.
As a private citizen things are much different. We have a Constitution that is very specific as to the role of government. One of them is to protect people from each other not to protect you from yourself, i.e., the right to personal freedom. In such case, the question is not necessarily whether something is good or bad for you but rather who should decide. If someone wants to eat oat meal and whey protein for breakfast or ice cream and butter sticks it is clear what is better for you but who should decide, you or the government? Health care cost with go down tremendously if we required everyone to exercise and eat healthy. But are you willing to give up your personal freedom and have others tell and require you to do what is good for you? If someone wants to mutilate their bodies with body piercing and splitting their tongue to look like a lizard I think they're nuts but it shouldn't be my or anyone's else business as long as they aren't hurting or bothering anyone. If someone wants to drink beer and get plastered just to get away from it all for a while or smoke a fatty it's none of my business. I don't want LE busting into people'ss home and putting them in jail. If someone wants to use steroids to help with athletic performance or just look better it's their decision as long as they don't hurt or bother anyone.
To summarize, athletes have no "right" to use steroids or anything else if their organization prohibits it. A private citizen, if you believe in personal freedom, indeed has the right to use steroids or anything they want as long as it doesn't impede on the freedom of others.
* awaiting Moosejay's approval *
Post of the year!! The personal liberties of an individual are not up for question. the league or federation they chose to join may instill whatever policies they chose and the athletes have implied consent by joining. But a person can do whatever he chooses. Helluva post.
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Doesn't matter whether they have a right or not. Top class athletes will do anything to win - even at the cost of risking their health / rep if caught.
That attitude is not unique to the athletic world - in business/politics, etc people will look for anything that can be used for leverage/advantage if the reward is worthwhile.
Its only cheating if you get caught.
You are indeed correct when we delve into the realm of the real world. The question is about rights and freedoms. We have laws against say, stealing and murder, that doesn't insure that they will be followed and indeed they are not. But it's still against the law and if caught they should pay the penalty. Same with drugs in sports.
It's one thing to say whether or not one has the right to use performance enhancing compounds or any drugs at all and whether it should be allowed in sports or in your private life. Considering the trade offs, I would opt for anything goes. Ronnie would still be Mr. O and Phelps would still dominate the Olympics. But, there is always the chance that someone who didn't have the resources of Coleman or Phelps to beat the drug test and have various connections to obtain legit products will emerge.
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Yes as well as anyone else in the general population if so desired. At a responsible age of course.
X
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it's illegal therefore it is cheating.
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People are allowed to smoke even though it causes CANCER.......500,000 deaths per year
People are allowed to drink even though it causes accidents.....100,000 deaths per year
People are allowed to carry guns in many states crime and death rate in america is one of worlds highest
Prescription medicine causes 500,000 deaths each year ... drugs prescribed by a doctor!!!!
Many new antibiotics and anti depressants are known to cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts and acts
WHY THE HELL NOT ALLOW STEROIDS...THEY ARE A LOT LESS DANGEROUS THAN "LEGAL" STUFF
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i think they should have the right to use absolutely anything
the chemistry would basically become part of the contest.
if someone can run 100 meters in 8 seconds because of a new wonder drug, i'm all for it!
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People are allowed to smoke even though it causes CANCER.......500,000 per year
People are allowed to drink even though it causes accidents.....100,000 per year
People are allowed to carry guns in many states crime and death rate in america is one of worlds highest
Prescription medicine causes 500,000 deaths each year ... drugs prescribed by a doctor!!!!
Many new antibiotics and anti depressants are known to cause suicidal and homicidal thoughts and acts
WHY THE HELL NOT ALLOW STEROIDS...THEY ARE A LOT LESS DANGEROUS THAN "LEGAL" STUFF
every drug less harmful then smoking, should be legal IMO.
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No because the government says so.
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There was a guy playing Rugby League about 6 years ago and he underwent a full knee reconstruction.The Doctor told him it was probally career ending injury.
6 months later his leg with the reconstruction was half the size of his other leg and rehabillitation was going very slowly and saw his career crumble.This is when he decided to turn to steroids in months of using anabolics he was training at a reduced capacity but they played a vital role in his increase in strength and rehabilitation to the point of full recovery.
He then went on to play rugby league the next season 100%.
But instead of giving up the steroids he continued using them, out of no where he was one of the most intmidating forwards in rugby leauge.
He then went on to represent his State in league, a huge honour then to represent his country after 18 months he was finally random drug tested and was caught.
Players who played against said it was like hitting a brick out house in tackling him,
He was suspended for one year and made a comeback clean but he was only half the player when he was on roids and later retired.
But he said he was not sorry because they helped him resume his career.
Food for thought.
Some steroids will inhibit collagen synthesis and others will promote it. Anyone doping up for injury recovery should be careful which ones they choose since some drugs would actually make for a slower recovery.
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free will should determine wether someone uses or not, my problem is with 'athletes' using aas/gh/slin/clen/t3 when their 'sport' is tested and they're trying to get around the testing.
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Some steroids will inhibit collagen synthesis and others will promote it. Anyone doping up for injury recovery should be careful which ones they choose since some drugs would actually make for a slower recovery.
Nandrolone and Human growth hormone are great for injuries.
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lets work on legalizing marijuana before we start ranting about the legalization of roids. one thing at a time.
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They already do.
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lets work on legalizing marijuana before we start ranting about the legalization of roids. one thing at a time.
I strongly disagree. If anything the two sides should team up to get both substances legalized.
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No because the government says so.
The government has at times made unjust laws. Just because they say so doesn't make it right or constitutional. We, as free people, should oppose laws that don't make sense and are unjust. Remember the Kelo decision just a few years ago where now the court ruled that the government can confiscate your property not for the common good, as specified in the Constitution, but now if they can make more money. People were kicked out of their homes so that a shopping center can be built on their land.
But this is besides the point. The question was does an athlete have a right to use steroids. Put another way, can a sporting organization implement any rules they want within reason. And of course they can. They can permit or ban anything they want for any reason or no reason. It is up to the athlete as to whether or not they want to participate.
What we are allowed to do as private citizens is another matter entirely. There was a time when you would go to prison for drinking a beer or engaging in sodomy.
* Subject to Moosejay's approval *
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Pellius I hope you realize I was being sarcastic.
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Pellius I hope you realize I was being sarcastic.
My most humble apology. You never know these days with all the sheeple in our midst.
Good man. Keep up the fight.
* takes foot out of mouth and hopes Moosejay ignores post *
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Why does the government ban a substance that our bodies produce naturally? What are they gonna ban next our blood?
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Why does the government ban a substance that our bodies produce naturally? What are they gonna ban next our blood?
If I pay a woman a couple of hundred bucks for a little anal I go to jail. If I film it and charge others to watch it I'm a porn star.
Go figure.
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I strongly disagree. If anything the two sides should team up to get both substances legalized.
no, pot is already proved safe, trying to get the broad range of roids legalized at the same time would just cause the legalization to fail.
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pellius
First, I want to make a distinction between a rights a person has as a private citizen and the rights they have when they voluntarily join an organization. In the case of a sporting organization such as say the NBA, IFBB, Football Boxing, MLB they can, for the most part, make any rules they want and the rules they make are purely arbitrary. They could easily declare 4 strikes or 2 strikes for baseball, 75 yards or 125 yards for a football field, 10 rounds or 25 rounds for boxing, etc. They can arbitrarily ban anything they want be it Coca Cola, caffeine, sweet potatoes or anabolic steroids. They can also require anything they want such as you have to wear a helmet, or shorts, or yellow shoes, not swear or make obscene gestures, etc. In that sense, an athlete has no rights other than the right to agree or disagree with the terms and rules and whether or not they choose to participate.
Steroids are like nuclear weapons, in that they cannot be uninvented. Whatever level of competition you get down to, starting from the highest to lowest, that does not drug test, will outperform the best natural athletes who are being tested. Take a very quantifiable event like track. If the fastest sanctioned sprinters in the world are all being drug tested, but can be bested by non-tested amateurs, why would anyone watch the pros?
Now imagine this as a BB scenario. Why would anyone pay to see smaller, softer pros in the IFBB (if they were tested) than bigger, harder amateurs who aren't tested? Said amateurs might get pro cards to cash in on their recognition, but then shrink...and the pros might then drop to the amateur ranks, use and become more widely known.
I'm not discounting natural ability and hard work, but the fact is, so long as Joe Shmo isn't drug tested, the pros have no choice but to use.
*Yes, I realize they can also choose not to use and not to be pros.
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I believe athletes should be allowed to use anything and do anything they want to improve athletic performance. But the question was do they have a RIGHT to use performance enhancing compounds and my answer is no. It's not a right. A sporting organization can make any rules they want. Whether they cheat or not is a separate issue.