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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: ozman on September 04, 2008, 01:00:42 PM
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I've hit the wall with my Bi's
what are some exercises to change things up ?
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What do you do right now for biceps?
8)
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best exercise? good old fashioned curls, of course! barbell is the most intense in my opinion.
hit a wall? try doing pull downs with palms facing up on a lat pulldown machine. try doing them strict and continuously, until failure. that really burns up my biceps and forearms. also seated incline curls are good...
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straight bar curls with the 7 foot Olympic bar, you can use the most weight and your palms are facing up the whole time, best thing for maximum stress on the biceps, i think db curls twisting the arm through the ROM is the most worthless biceps movement, may as well do cleans.
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Try Incline Dumbell Curls with the bench back at 45 degrees or less. It acts as an isolation movement at that angle since it is harder to swing up the weights with your arms at at that angle to your body. Steve Reeves was a proponent of this exercise.
Another possible change is to try Point of Flexion (POF) training, where you do three exercises all hitting the muscle at a different angle. (See http://www.musclenet.com/positionsofflexion.htm for a basic (http://www.musclenet.com/positionsofflexion.htm for a basic) rundown of POF training.) If you do, Incline Dumbbell Curls, Standing Barbell Curls and then Concentration Curls, for example, your arms are at three different angles to your body and each works the muscle a bit differently.
(http://kbierek.powweb.com/shapefit-pics/biceps-exercises-incline-inner-biceps-curls.gif)
Arms angled behind body
(http://kbierek.powweb.com/shapefit-pics/biceps-exercises-barbell-curls.gif)
Arms inline with body
(http://kbierek.powweb.com/shapefit-pics/biceps-exercises-concentration-curls.gif)
Arms angled in front of body
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Take one or two weeks off from any direct bicep exercise. Returning, you can do just about any bicep movement you choose. They all work (might be a big surprise for some people) to one degree or another. The trick is is to find out which works best for you and not everyone else. Must be two dozen direct bicep exercise I can think of at the moment; lying, sitting, kneeling, standing and even hanging. The system you use with them, and how they are placed in a workout, can be just as important also.
Keep the sets down to no more than 3 to 6, at the most, for the whole bicep workout. Reps between 6-10 with the progressive system. May want to include one BB and one DB version in the mix.
The exercises offered by Dantelis are excellent for most folks. Might want to pick one or two of these in a bicep workout.Three different direct exercises are really not needed. For the majority of people the BB curl (EZ bar if wrist/forearms are bothered) can be a mass producer. Try a little cheating on this one if you wish.. And not just of the last few reps. If doing 8 reps, all are in the cheating style. Heavy incline and concentration DB curls are excellent. Try having the arms near the body, and not out wide, when doing inclines. Good Luck
Side Bar: the original version of Concentration curls was with a slow, full ROM, up and down rep. The DB was usually light...maybe 15- 20 lbs or so. As you curl the weight concentrate on the action of the bicep. Seeing it in you mind becoming bigger than ever before and pumped with blood to it's extreme. Think of the peak of your bicep (even if you have genetic flat biceps) becoming like mountains. Arnold, and some of the old timers way before him, used this method at times. Original mind-body connection in pure BB'ing I guess. Usually done with higher reps and sets. And the last bicep exercise done for that workout. Pump paradise I know. But it did seem to help build some exceptional high peaked biceps back in the day, for some men.
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Try Incline Dumbell Curls with the bench back at 45 degrees or less. It acts as an isolation movement at that angle since it is harder to swing up the weights with your arms at at that angle to your body. Steve Reeves was a proponent of this exercise.
These can be good, but you really gotta be careful when doing them. I made the mistake of going just a bit too heavy on them and my bi's were killing me ("bad sore", not "good sore") for over a week. I wouldn't go any lower then 10 reps with this exercise.
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Ez bar Preacher Curls are awesome.
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barbell curls and cable curls work the best for me.
I love the constant strain that you can achieve with cable curls. However, they have to be paired with other curls.
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Spider Curls.
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incline dumbell curls
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Hammers.
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If you have a training partner or a friend at the gym, they can be of assistance in maximising the amount of muscle fibres used by the biceps during each rep, which can help stimulate more overall growth.
During barbell biceps curls (for example), have your workout parnter stand infront of you. When the bar reaches the top of the movement, ask them to pull the bar down to the floor (in the arc that your arm normally follows though.) What you do here, is you try and pull the bar back up, resisting his pull to the floor, yet eventually allowing a full extension of the arm at the bottom so you can begin the next rep. This type of training is called Forced Negatives, and is great for having the biceps do double the work that they would do in a normal biceps curl.
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straight bar curls with the 7 foot Olympic bar, you can use the most weight and your palms are facing up the whole time, best thing for maximum stress on the biceps, i think db curls twisting the arm through the ROM is the most worthless biceps movement, may as well do cleans.
I know everybody is different but for me this is by far the best exercise for my bi's.
I also try to keep the bar close to my chest on the way up and it's a big difference maker for me.
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thanx guys
onya
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heavy bb curls. 8)
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weighted chin ups
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My favourite is shoulder width chin ups. Pretty much the only one I use, with some concentration curls sometimes.
I'm not a big fan of barbell curls, they tend to make my biceps look thicker but kinda flatter and shapeless. Probably just me.
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preacher curls and 21s
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My favourite is shoulder width chin ups. Pretty much the only one I use, with some concentration curls sometimes.
I'm not a big fan of barbell curls, they tend to make my biceps look thicker but kinda flatter and shapeless. Probably just me.
it has nothing to do with the exercise and everything to do with your genetic biceps shape.
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heavy bb curls. 8)
This and EZ bar preachers work for me.
If I hit a wall I change the weight and rep range
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bicep extensions.
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bicep extensions.
LOL what's that.
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LOL what's that.
;D
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lmao!
heavy hammers.. therapeutic and hit both heads of the biceps as well as the brachialis AND aren't hell on your wrists if you have wrist problems.
that and heavy back work is all i've ever needed it seems.
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preacher curls and 21s
what are 21's ?
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Well, its widely agreed upon that barbell curls are key for bicep development.
However, disregarding what gives the most "mass" to the biceps, i really enjoy doing high rep burn out sets between the pulleys... I'm sure many of you have seen Markus Ruhl do these in his videos.. I don't know what they are called but basically your working out the biceps while hitting a front double bicep.
Its great for those gyms with nice lighting and lots of mirrors.. :D
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Fat bar Standing curl super-set w/
Curl Grip Chin-up
Biceps will grow & grow & grow.
Maximize full pauses in the contracted position and fight the negative for all your worth.
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it has nothing to do with the exercise and everything to do with your genetic biceps shape.
Of course genetics largely determine how your biceps will look, but I still think the choice of exercise -like concentration curls- can make small differences to the shape if used consistently over a long time.
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Of course genetics largely determine how your biceps will look, but I still think the choice of exercise -like concentration curls- can make small differences to the shape if used consistently over a long time.
Explain your reasoning behind this.
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Of course genetics largely determine how your biceps will look, but I still think the choice of exercise -like concentration curls- can make small differences to the shape if used consistently over a long time.
Don't think so.
Like people always say that preachers/concentration curls create more "peak", well, i'm highly skeptical that this could happen.
Just comes down to genetics. Some people have really highly peaked bi's (Ronnie) whilst others have more rounded bi's (Vince Taylor).
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Explain your reasoning behind this.
Don't think so.
Like people always say that preachers/concentration curls create more "peak", well, i'm highly skeptical that this could happen.
Just comes down to genetics. Some people have really highly peaked bi's (Ronnie) whilst others have more rounded bi's (Vince Taylor).
I don't really give a shit if you guys don't believe me, all I'm gonna say is - if you don't actually believe it's possible then its certainly not going to happen. Check out the difference in Larry Scott's bicep peak over the years, there's a pic floating around somewhere.
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Btw, I'm not sayin someone like Levrone could increase their bicep peak to be on par with Ronnie's, but there's room for small improvements in some people.
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I don't really give a shit if you guys don't believe me, all I'm gonna say is - if you don't actually believe it's possible then its certainly not going to happen. Check out the difference in Larry Scott's bicep peak over the years, there's a pic floating around somewhere.
I agree with you, going against conventional wisdom. While it's true that muscle shape is genetically determined, it takes a great deal of trial and error combined with intense work to unearth full potential. I think most BBs fall short on those, as shown by a few exceptions.
Scott changed the shape of his bis fairly noticably much later after retiring, because he has a far more technical and curious nature to training than most. He tried new exercises combined with hard work. If he'd believed the usual thing about genetic predisposition he'd not have been able to do that. Levrone's bis were something like Scott's but i'm almost sure he never experimented fully. Schwarzenegger was more like Scott, said that his calves only came out fully after he'd tried many different routines coupled with very hard work, to find the right combo.
IMO most BBs don't have the imagination to go to the lengths these guys did to find out completely what's there. That's why it's good to keep an open mind and try new stuff (combined with extreme intensity).
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It's not a huge difference, but it's certainly there.
Question is, how did he do it and how can one do it for themselves.
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emg studies show bi curls with a straight olympic bar activates the bi more than any other excercise.
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emg studies show bi curls with a straight olympic bar activates the bi more than any other excercise.
Those studies are a good rough guide but are not 100%, in part because they don't consider every exercise. A straight bar is better yes but i don't believe that free weight curls are more intense on biceps than preacher curls. Standing curls enlist heavy front delts, which is why the cheat version done properly is better IMO, plus the arms aren't kept in one position.
It's not a huge difference, but it's certainly there.
Question is, how did he do it and how can one do it for themselves.
Spider curls, which shifts the resistance curve to create greater intensity later in the ROM, hitting the bis higher up, closer to the shoulder. Use the other side of a preacher bench, the side that is perpendicular to the ground.
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Those studies are a good rough guide but are not 100%, in part because they don't consider every exercise. A straight bar is better yes but i don't believe that free weight curls are more intense on biceps than preacher curls. Standing curls enlist heavy front delts, which is why the cheat version done properly is better IMO, plus the arms aren't kept in one position.
This is very true. Most stay away from preachers because they can't throw around a ton of weight so the ego prevents them from building the muscle all the way.
Just take the bar from the decline bench, set it up on the preacher bench and go to town.
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weighted chin ups
+1 8)
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what are 21's ?
7 reps in the bottom of the movement, 7 at the top and then 7 full reps. Coleman does them in all his videos.
Very effective, it forces you to use lighter weights and do lots of reps.
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I like cable curls to warm up then move to standing barbell curls and preacher curls
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best bi movement standing olympic bar curls...
straight bar preacher curls are good too
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best bi movement standing olympic bar curls...
straight bar preacher curls are good too
These are the 2 best from my experience, though a few nuances with each one can make them even more effective. These are BTW the two favorite biceps exercises of most top guys including Schwarzenegger and Scott.
For standing curls a shorter bar's better to me as there's more control and no distractions with balance. Cheat curls done properly without too much swinging are better than strict-cheats are ususually done wrong and become reverse cleans, making the exercise useless. Only cheat enough to get the weight moving the first 2-3", then the bis should take over.
Cable cheat curls with a straight bar are at least as good as free weights. Like most, i used to believe cable curls were just for finishing or refinement...BS. I found out myself later that i'd just followed the usual assumption that was wrong. Coleman found out the same-free weight curls are only comparable when done properly, using moderate cheating rather than either too strict or cheating too much.
http://www.ronniecoleman.net/trainingbiceps.html
On these two do straight sets then other workouts do them as a superset. For a changeup do a triset of those two exercises plus either chins or drag curls.
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I'm not a big fan of barbell curls, they tend to make my biceps look thicker but kinda flatter and shapeless. Probably just me.
You might benefit from using a more pronated wrist position, like a hammer curl or reverse curls, to develop the brachialis, coupled with supine bb curls.
Ozman, I assume like most of us you stick at a particular point in the movement every time. Try setting some pins in a power rack at that point and bb curl against them isometrically with all you've got for 5 secs after a fatiguing for a few reps. I think this was Poliquins way of overcoming sticking points.
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+1 8)
Gotta go with the weighted chins. This of course is taking for granted the fact that you are able to properly chin your bodyweight. ;D
If I had a choice, it would be chins first, weighted chins second, and if I needed more--a partner to help with 'variable resistance' bb curls. I would concentrate on each aspect of the repetition...obviously accenting the negative and static portion of the rep.
If I felt I was able to recover, I would go to complete failure (or as close as humanly possible)--eat good, take a nap, eat some more and take another nap.
When the muscles were no longer sore (2 days?) I would pump the hell out of em' (no failure) and repeat the rest/food portion.
My overall bodyweight has to go up and my caloric intake must increase in order for me to gain any more size in the biceps.
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my favorites
arnold concentration curls
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You might benefit from using a more pronated wrist position, like a hammer curl or reverse curls, to develop the brachialis, coupled with supine bb curls.
Yeah mate I've got near zero brachialis development so I've started with some serious hammer curls lately and they're pretty much the only biceps exercise I do now, helps my grip strength too, which is mostly what I train for atm.
IMO most BBs don't have the imagination to go to the lengths these guys did to find out completely what's there. That's why it's good to keep an open mind and try new stuff (combined with extreme intensity).
I reckon this is a good quote to keep in mind when training. You never know what's better for you till you do some quality experimenting.
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concentration curls have the lowest measured EM activity, preachers have the highest, and they also hit the brachialis very hard. So overall the best exercise is preachers, if you were to pick one, but it's not for ppl with big egos I guess
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concentration curls have the lowest measured EM activity, preachers have the highest, and they also hit the brachialis very hard. So overall the best exercise is preachers, if you were to pick one, but it's not for ppl with big egos I guess
How would the preachers hit the brachialis moreso than a standard biceps curl?
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How would the preachers hit the brachialis moreso than a standard biceps curl?
The insertion point for the brachialis is right at the elbow joint. It sits even lower than the biceps tendon. With conventional barbells the biceps can only be effectively worked through a 90 degree ROM. The arm movement is done in a more horizontal direction as gravity pulls your arm toward you. Since the preacher curl allows arm movement to continue past the 90 degree angle- there is additional resistance throughout the upper range. You in turn, get a maximal shortening of the muscle. If it is true then, that the brachialis inserts as low as it does, it makes logical sense that it would be maximally contracted.
It is just my theory. I could be wrong.
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How would the preachers hit the brachialis moreso than a standard biceps curl?
Whatever the theory, clearly you can do the same exercises to hit the brachialis on a preacher as on others forms of curls, but more intensely-wrist supination, zottman curls, hammer curls, reverse curls. The effect can be further modified by using different angles on the bench.
concentration curls have the lowest measured EM activity, preachers have the highest, and they also hit the brachialis very hard. So overall the best exercise is preachers
No doubt in my mind that preachers are far ahead of isolation curls, which are a so-so attempt at creating the same effect as preachers. Preachers and standing cheat weight/cable curls are the best.
Chins are also great, but i like them as a supplement/post-exhaust to these rather than as the starting point, because they're a compound exercise in which other related muscles such as lats can fatigue before the biceps do. Just as strict standing free weight curls can mean too much front delt fatigue before the biceps are hit effectively. The best way to isolate bis during chins is the use a partial ROM. Don't lower yourself all the way down, stay in the upper 1/2-2/3s of the range.
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This is interesting.
"In a pronated position during an arm curl, the brachialis shows the highest EMG activity, when compared to the brachioradialis and biceps brachii. It is not that the brachialis' EMG activity changes because of various arm positions, but instead, the EMG activity of the biceps and brachioradialis decreases because of this mechanically, disadvantageous position of these two muscles. (Kendall, et. al, 1993, pg 268.)" Quoted from 'Effective Strength Trainining' by Douglas Brooks
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I did standing barbell curls yesterday , with less weight than usual
holding the bar high with my elbows around chest height
reps around 10 with a hard squeeze for each rep
i never get much doms after a bi workout but today is different
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First exercise 4 sets of heavy preachers to full extension. At lest 8 reps per set. You will be sore.
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Try using a 45-plate and curling that against your body for a 2nd or 3rd bicep lift during your workout. You'll most likely be able to do high reps even though your biceps are already burning (12-15), but really get full movement from completely straight arms to fully peaked and nice contraction. They are great.
Hammer Rope Curls, E-Z bar standing curls, and 21s are my other favorites. Just mix it up, your biceps are a muscle that are stimulated and grow best through surprising them with different lifts. Stimulate them with different lifts and you'll see better results
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It's a bit old fashioned but Bicep 21s have always worked for me. J
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ive found seated barbell curls to be a good exercise but im a big fan of the 1 arm dumbell preacher curl...i can focus really well on the movement
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ive found seated barbell curls to be a good exercise but im a big fan of the 1 arm dumbell preacher curl...i can focus really well on the movement
Same here, just started doing seated barbell curls and loving them.