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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 11:41:28 AM

Title: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 11:41:28 AM
Its now Obama 47% to  McSame 45%..   And Obamas lead in the electoral map has increased, its now Obama 286 to McSame 252   :D
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: jaejonna on September 17, 2008, 11:46:55 AM
Meanwhile, Palin is reading up on Wikipedia for her upcoming trip to the UN ... ::)  that bitch is a fraud and McCain (head of the COMMERCE COMMITTEE) could of stopped all this finanical shit from happening ...hahahah
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: y19mike77 on September 17, 2008, 11:52:55 AM
What poll r u looking at?

McCain takes lead in 'Battleground Poll' (McCain 46%, Obama 40%)

Riding momentum from the Republican convention and buzz from running mate Sarah Palin, McCain has taken the lead in another national poll, but it's still 50 days to the election and there are three presidential debates to come.

The George Washington University "Battleground Poll" released today gives McCain a 46 percent to 40 percent lead over Democrat Barack Obama among likely voters. They were statistically tied in the same survey last month.

Like other surveys, the poll shows that the economy is clearly the most important issue for voters. It also shows McCain leading Obama on being a strong leader (51 percent to 37 percent) and keeping the country safe (57 percent to 33 percent), but Obama with a clear edge on bringing change to Washington (52 percent to 34 percent).

Obama remains ahead on "fighting for people like me" (48 percent to 42 percent) and "uniting the country" (47 percent to 39 percent). But McCain is making up ground on those latter two perceptions.


http://www.boston.com/news/politics/...akes_le_1.html
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 11:55:54 AM
Its now Obama 47% to  McSame 45%..   And Obamas lead in the electoral map has increased, its now Obama 286 to McSame 252   :D

If you include the "toss-up" states, that is correct (according to RealClearPolitics.com). Without them, it's McCain 227, Obama 207, with 104 EC votes up for grabs.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 12:17:09 PM
http://pollster.com/ has obama making gains by 20 electoral this week.

Intrade has mccain 49.8, and Obama at 48.9

Tis close.  Methinks Mccain peaked last week though.  it's 1984 all over agian.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 12:30:10 PM
http://pollster.com/ has obama making gains by 20 electoral this week.

Intrade has mccain 49.8, and Obama at 48.9

Tis close.  Methinks Mccain peaked last week though.  it's 1984 all over agian.

In light of what happened to the Democratic nominee in 1984, you better hope that's not actually true.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 12:32:48 PM
In light of what happened to the Democratic nominee in 1984, you better hope that's not actually true.

I was referring to a guy being 16 or 18 points down, choosing a woman, and being tied in less than a week...

Only to have that woman's credentials become examined and America realizing she was a gimmic, and giving the other party a landslide of 49 states.

Obviously it'll be closer than that, but I think the more people learn about her, the less supporters she'll have.  Just about NOBODY learns more about her and decides "Hey, I'll vote for her!".  It's usually them learning about her and deciding she's a very hot version of George W. bush...



Gallup: 47-45
http://www.gallup.com/poll/110446/Gallup-Daily-Obama-47...

Reuters: 47-45
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN16428542200...

Research 2000 / Daily Kos: 48-44
http://www.dailykos.com/dailypoll/2008/9/17

McCain’s Palin bounce is over. Obama’s campaign has taken him back into the lead.

They have worked both hard and smart and they have turned things back around.

The EV's still need work, but there is always a 1-week lag in the EV data. I expect things to turn around there by next week if the momentum continues.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 12:34:00 PM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 12:43:53 PM
I was referring to a guy being 16 or 18 points down, choosing a woman, and being tied in less than a week...

Only to have that woman's credentials become examined and America realizing she was a gimmic, and giving the other party a landslide of 49 states.

Obviously it'll be closer than that, but I think the more people learn about her, the less supporters she'll have.  Just about NOBODY learns more about her and decides "Hey, I'll vote for her!".  It's usually them learning about her and deciding she's a very hot version of George W. bush...



Gallup: 47-45
http://www.gallup.com/poll/110446/Gallup-Daily-Obama-47...

Reuters: 47-45
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN16428542200...

Research 2000 / Daily Kos: 48-44
http://www.dailykos.com/dailypoll/2008/9/17

McCain’s Palin bounce is over. Obama’s campaign has taken him back into the lead.

They have worked both hard and smart and they have turned things back around.

The EV's still need work, but there is always a 1-week lag in the EV data. I expect things to turn around there by next week if the momentum continues.

The Obama campaign has done nothing of the sort. The news of the economy got thrust back into the spotlight, because of this stuff with AIG and other companies. Many experts agree that such favors Obama.

As for the EC votes, there wasn't a week lag. The increase for Obama is again due to the "toss-up" state (Virginia) being awarded to Obama. According to RCP, Obama's ahead by a mere 0.5 percent, whereas Obama and McCain were tied at 48% yesterday in Virginia.

The score (without the toss-ups) was the same: McCain 227, Obama 207; but the score with the toss-ups was Obama 273, McCain 265.

Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: y19mike77 on September 17, 2008, 12:44:30 PM
“A national poll we can believe in!” or just good business?
snip

Consider these numbers: Obama’s up just 5 in New York, 3 in New Jersey and 2 in Washington. Does ‘thisclose’ in deep blue states add up to “A national poll we can believe in!”?

Obama’s losing ground everywhere, not by a little, but by a lot.

His numbers are crumbling among White men, White women, Catholics, Evangelicals, Independents and his base.

So where are pollsters finding Obama supporters to talk to and report a tied race?

Obama is -12 with White women, a group he desperately has to win by at least double digits. Among White males, even the 36% Al Gore and John Kerry got now looks way out of reach.

Catholics, who will be 26% of voters, are running away from him. He is down 59/36 fully 10 points below what Kerry got.

Evangelicals gave George Bush 71% in 2004, showing what they will do when they support a candidate. This year they have a chance to vote for an Evangelical Christian they are wild about. A 75% support is not out of reach.

With Independents Obama is losing 52/37.

The most telling number for Obama is his disappearing Democratic base support which runs from 86% down to 81%. A new poll from Ohio puts it at just 82%
http://www.collinsreport.net/
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: dario73 on September 17, 2008, 12:54:43 PM
Its now Obama 47% to  McSame 45%..   And Obamas lead in the electoral map has increased, its now Obama 286 to McSame 252   :D

Wishful thinking.  HEHEHEH!!

If Obama were to ever agree to a debate in an open forum style with no teleprompters, McCain would win by a landslide. But, alas, the great fake Barack doesn't want that.

Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 12:55:28 PM
“A national poll we can believe in!” or just good business?
snip

Consider these numbers: Obama’s up just 5 in New York, 3 in New Jersey and 2 in Washington. Does ‘thisclose’ in deep blue states add up to “A national poll we can believe in!”?

Obama’s losing ground everywhere, not by a little, but by a lot.

His numbers are crumbling among White men, White women, Catholics, Evangelicals, Independents and his base.

So where are pollsters finding Obama supporters to talk to and report a tied race?

Obama is -12 with White women, a group he desperately has to win by at least double digits. Among White males, even the 36% Al Gore and John Kerry got now looks way out of reach.

Catholics, who will be 26% of voters, are running away from him. He is down 59/36 fully 10 points below what Kerry got.

Evangelicals gave George Bush 71% in 2004, showing what they will do when they support a candidate. This year they have a chance to vote for an Evangelical Christian they are wild about. A 75% support is not out of reach.

With Independents Obama is losing 52/37.

The most telling number for Obama is his disappearing Democratic base support which runs from 86% down to 81%. A new poll from Ohio puts it at just 82%
http://www.collinsreport.net/

RealClearPolitics (RCP) doesn't quite agree with Mr. Collin's assessment. It has Obama up by 13 in NY, 6 in NY and 5 in WA. However, Obama's only up by 2 in Michigan and less than 2 in Pennsylvania. If Obama loses one of those states, that could spell BIG TROUBLE for him.

To me, Obama has to snatch a major red state (OH, FL) or a handful of small red states (CO, NV, and NM) to win this thing. That's assuming he holds on to ALL the blue states.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 12:57:42 PM
If Obama were to ever agree to a debate in an open forum style with no teleprompters, McCain would win by a landslide. But, alas, the great fake Barack doesn't want that.

There will be no teleprompters for the 3 major debates this month and next.

There will be questions asked, with 90, 60, or 30 second responses and rebuttals.

Obama will be about 5 inches taller than Obama, so I think for the first time we're going to see - visually - a major contrast between the men.  Will Obama look tall, athletic, young, and energetic?  Will 90 minutes of standing leave mccain looking irritated or weak?

Mccain is very personable in sit-down conversations, but he does get pissy when someone directly disagrees with him.  I think there will be a few famous moments from these debates that'll sway some people bigtime, one way or another.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: y19mike77 on September 17, 2008, 01:07:54 PM
There will be no teleprompters for the 3 major debates this month and next.

There will be questions asked, with 90, 60, or 30 second responses and rebuttals.

Obama will be about 5 inches taller than Obama, so I think for the first time we're going to see - visually - a major contrast between the men.  Will Obama look tall, athletic, young, and energetic?  Will 90 minutes of standing leave mccain looking irritated or weak?

Mccain is very personable in sit-down conversations, but he does get pissy when someone directly disagrees with him.  I think there will be a few famous moments from these debates that'll sway some people bigtime, one way or another.




For the first time you have made a well informed post.

More then likely that will happen. He is tall and athletic. But hopefully the public will see past that listen to what is being said.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: BM OUT on September 17, 2008, 01:07:58 PM
Meanwhile, Palin is reading up on Wikipedia for her upcoming trip to the UN ... ::)  that bitch is a fraud and McCain (head of the COMMERCE COMMITTEE) could of stopped all this finanical shit from happening ...hahahah

The fucking dems caused ALL this.Fanny and Freddy were democrat controlled.THEY wanted to give loans for housing to minorities and those who couldnt afford it.Now they are reaping what they sowed.Once again,libs love to give shit away to those who dont deserve it and cant pay for it.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 01:10:41 PM
For the first time you have made a well informed post.

Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day :)
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: y19mike77 on September 17, 2008, 01:11:04 PM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war

Again you are right. As a Independent conservative I dont believe anyone should ever be bailed out. You get what you have coming to you.

The only way we can heal is to let the injury run its course learn from it and improve.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 01:12:00 PM
More then likely that will happen. He is tall and athletic. But hopefully the public will see past that listen to what is being said.

In the extremely close Nixok/JFK campaign, many radio listeners sais Nixon won.  But those who watched on TV saw JFK looking dapper and cool, while nixon was a sweaty mess.  It cost him bigtime.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 01:13:44 PM
http://pollster.com/ has obama making gains by 20 electoral this week.

Intrade has mccain 49.8, and Obama at 48.9

Tis close.  Methinks Mccain peaked last week though.  it's 1984 all over agian.

Daily Gallup poll has Obama head by 2 points, and thats the most trusted poll.   These university polls r bs.  Obama was also ahead on intread by about 1 point, he was down like 4 points all last week, so he is making a come back already.  And now Conservatives r starting to question Palin, so thats not a good sign for McSame.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 01:14:12 PM
Again you are right. As a Independent conservative I dont believe anyone should ever be bailed out. You get what you have coming to you.

The only way we can heal is to let the injury run its course learn from it and improve.

we probably agree on 98% of issues, my friend.

The problem is that some of these banks are too big to fail.  If we're going to guarantee their monies, we need to require them to have some kind of tougher lending standards.  People making 25k a year were getting house loans for $250 or $300k.  The company knew they would get into troble eventually, but they just wanted to get those heavy fees in 2002, 03, 04, while the gettin was good.

Yes, those people deserve to lose the homes.  But if you're going to guarantee the bank loans, then you need to have influence on how they lend.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: y19mike77 on September 17, 2008, 01:14:37 PM
The fucking dems caused ALL this.Fanny and Freddy were democrat controlled.THEY wanted to give loans for housing to minorities and those who couldnt afford it.Now they are reaping what they sowed.Once again,libs love to give shit away to those who dont deserve it and cant pay for it.


Exactly right. Libs love giving stuff to people who don't deserve it. But why not, lets give illegals free health care, homes, and social security checks. Or wellfair checks to woman who never heard of a condemn or keeping there legs closed.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: y19mike77 on September 17, 2008, 01:20:45 PM
we probably agree on 98% of issues, my friend.

The problem is that some of these banks are too big to fail.  If we're going to guarantee their monies, we need to require them to have some kind of tougher lending standards.  People making 25k a year were getting house loans for $250 or $300k.  The company knew they would get into troble eventually, but they just wanted to get those heavy fees in 2002, 03, 04, while the gettin was good.

Yes, those people deserve to lose the homes.  But if you're going to guarantee the bank loans, then you need to have influence on how they lend.

I might have pegged you wrong. I could not agree more. The loans that banks were aproviing were insane. I live in west palm beach, FLA. One of the highest(if not the highest) forclosure rates here in the country. I have friends making $50k a year and buying $500k n $600k. All forclosed on. Interest only loans and balloon payment loans. They go out buy a nice car the bank should never of approved a loan for.
Then BOOMB. It all comes back and bites them in the ass.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Neurotoxin on September 17, 2008, 01:37:12 PM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war


TRUTH!



NT
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: JohnnyVegas on September 17, 2008, 01:41:50 PM
The fucking dems caused ALL this.Fanny and Freddy were democrat controlled.THEY wanted to give loans for housing to minorities and those who couldnt afford it.Now they are reaping what they sowed.Once again,libs love to give shit away to those who dont deserve it and cant pay for it.

STFU Fat Boy-anyone who only has a 3rd grade education has no business commenting on politics.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: IFBBwannaB on September 17, 2008, 01:47:43 PM
Its now Obama 47% to  McSame 45%..   And Obamas lead in the electoral map has increased, its now Obama 286 to McSame 252   :D

What the polls of the G4P community in Dubai,India say?
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 01:49:53 PM
“A national poll we can believe in!” or just good business?
snip

Consider these numbers: Obama’s up just 5 in New York, 3 in New Jersey and 2 in Washington. Does ‘thisclose’ in deep blue states add up to “A national poll we can believe in!”?

Obama’s losing ground everywhere, not by a little, but by a lot.

His numbers are crumbling among White men, White women, Catholics, Evangelicals, Independents and his base.

So where are pollsters finding Obama supporters to talk to and report a tied race?

Obama is -12 with White women, a group he desperately has to win by at least double digits. Among White males, even the 36% Al Gore and John Kerry got now looks way out of reach.

Catholics, who will be 26% of voters, are running away from him. He is down 59/36 fully 10 points below what Kerry got.

Evangelicals gave George Bush 71% in 2004, showing what they will do when they support a candidate. This year they have a chance to vote for an Evangelical Christian they are wild about. A 75% support is not out of reach.

With Independents Obama is losing 52/37.

The most telling number for Obama is his disappearing Democratic base support which runs from 86% down to 81%. A new poll from Ohio puts it at just 82%
http://www.collinsreport.net/

MELTDOWN
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: grab an umbrella on September 17, 2008, 01:50:07 PM
Thank god hussein is ahead again
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Busted on September 17, 2008, 01:56:52 PM
Wishful thinking.  HEHEHEH!!

If Obama were to ever agree to a debate in an open forum style with no teleprompters, McCain would win by a landslide. But, alas, the great fake Barack doesn't want that.



Ahhhh dont be so sure of yourself, Obama is a Attorney, McSame is a... war hero?  i highly doubt he can contest with obama 1 on 1 consiering most everything he says will be factchecked and turn out to be false... he is STILL saying the same things, that even fox news and Karl Rove are saying are Lies...
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Tre on September 17, 2008, 01:57:46 PM
Its now Obama 47% to  McSame 45%..   And Obamas lead in the electoral map has increased, its now Obama 286 to McSame 252   :D

Which electoral map are you tracking?
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: delta9mda on September 17, 2008, 02:08:40 PM
There will be no teleprompters for the 3 major debates this month and next.

There will be questions asked, with 90, 60, or 30 second responses and rebuttals.

Obama will be about 5 inches taller than Obama
, so I think for the first time we're going to see - visually - a major contrast between the men.  Will Obama look tall, athletic, young, and energetic?  Will 90 minutes of standing leave mccain looking irritated or weak?

Mccain is very personable in sit-down conversations, but he does get pissy when someone directly disagrees with him.  I think there will be a few famous moments from these debates that'll sway some people bigtime, one way or another.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: delta9mda on September 17, 2008, 02:10:09 PM
The fucking dems caused ALL this.Fanny and Freddy were democrat controlled.THEY wanted to give loans for housing to minorities and those who couldnt afford it.Now they are reaping what they sowed.Once again,libs love to give shit away to those who dont deserve it and cant pay for it.
clinton repealed the fair banking act of 1933 (steigle-glass act of 1933) on nov 12 1999. there you go.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 02:24:35 PM
Which electoral map are you tracking?

http://www.politico.com/

its changed to 273 to 265 for Obama. 
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Option D on September 17, 2008, 02:25:30 PM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war

AND THEY CALL US THE SPENDERS!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Buffgeek on September 17, 2008, 02:28:54 PM
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 02:47:50 PM
http://www.electoral-vote.com/

CNN takes the average of all the electoral polls so they're most accurate

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/10/electoral.map/index.html

and Obama leads 233 to 189  ;)
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: THEBOSS on September 17, 2008, 03:07:47 PM
 ::) As i said in another post I quess its okay for OBAMA to attend a race hating church for twenty years and have members of his imediate family as radicle muslems ! we will leave out the contradictions and retarded wifes statments ect ect !  ::)
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: muscleforlife on September 17, 2008, 03:12:35 PM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war
You left out the billion going to the country of Georgia.
Sandra
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: dantelis on September 17, 2008, 03:36:51 PM
Its now Obama 47% to  McSame 45%..   And Obamas lead in the electoral map has increased, its now Obama 286 to McSame 252   :D

With plus or minus 2-3 points of error, that still just means that they are neck-and-neck.  Ignore the polls.  They don't mean anything.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Busted on September 17, 2008, 04:11:25 PM
Polls dont count the Millions of new registered voters which many say are 3/1 democrat/republican..

Again, how many of you have been called by a pollster? I know 1 person in my life who has...

One called my uncle and asked who he was going to vote for and he said "its none of your business" they said "SO your undecided!!!"
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: headhuntersix on September 17, 2008, 04:26:58 PM
CNN takes the average of all the electoral polls so they're most accurate

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/10/electoral.map/index.html

and Obama leads 233 to 189  ;)

Dude so does realclearpolitics without any bias or bullshit......its considered the best and most accurate period. And the facts as stated before are...Obama should be up a few points today based on the economy news.

.Obama/Biden 207
 157 Solid     50 Leaning
McCain/Palin 227
 157 Solid     70 Leaning
Toss Up 104
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 04:36:58 PM
http://www.politico.com/

its changed to 273 to 265 for Obama. 

That's because Virginia (with 13 EC votes) has gone back to McCain, 48-46.

The difference now is a mere one state, which by RCP's figures, is Colorado, which Obama leads by less than one percent. If McCain gains any more traction there, it becomes 274-264, in McCain's favor.

But, that's counting the toss-ups. It's still McCain 227 Obama 207, with 104 up for grabs.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: The_Punisher on September 17, 2008, 04:41:56 PM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war



you should run for your local office, Rob. seriously. :). this war will define George bush legacy years after he's dead
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: calfzilla on September 17, 2008, 04:42:41 PM
This shit belongs on the political board but since it's here I will say this: 
  In order for Obama to win he will need a huge huge lead in the polls.  Not just a couple points.  Two reasons for this.  1) A lot of white people who support Obama when they get behind the curtain in the polling booth will not be able to pull the lever for a black man.  2) A large portion of Obama supporters are young people, which is great, but they tend not to get out and vote.

Next president of the United States=John McCain.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 04:55:50 PM
This shit belongs on the political board but since it's here I will say this: 
  In order for Obama to win he will need a huge huge lead in the polls.  Not just a couple points.  Two reasons for this.  1) A lot of white people who support Obama when they get behind the curtain in the polling booth will not be able to pull the lever for a black man.  2) A large portion of Obama supporters are young people, which is great, but they tend not to get out and vote.

Next president of the United States=John McCain.

And, there's perhaps 3) The evangelical vote. They turned out big time and help get Bush re-elected. They weren't excited about McCain, until he added Palin to the ticket. If they put that kind of support behind McCain that they did for Bush in '04, it will allow McCain to keep those critical red states.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: grab an umbrella on September 17, 2008, 05:04:31 PM
Hussein forever...
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 05:20:14 PM
A few thoughts...

Polls ignore cell phones.  Guess who has cell phones?  Young people.  Old people answer their landlines during the day.  They vote mccain.

Mccain's Palin bounce is ending.  Obama now leads among white women by 2 points.  That's HUGE - the clinton girls are coming back once they found out Palin has nothing in common with Hilary beside boobies.

Florida is currently tied at 48 in polls... BUT... When voters have the ability to also choose Nader, barr, or Mckinney, then Obama leads 48 to 44 (CNN today).  There are a lot of people that pick mccain when only given those 2 options, but once they get in the ballot they're picking Barr.  LOTS of liberatrians in South Florida.

Also Obama is only down 2 points in N Carolina, a state that Bush won by 12 despite NC's own John Edwards being on the Dem ticket.   He's now outspending Mccain 10-to-1 in NC, and chances are he'll snatch it away.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 05:31:59 PM
A few thoughts...

Polls ignore cell phones.  Guess who has cell phones?  Young people.  Old people answer their landlines during the day.  They vote mccain.

Mccain's Palin bounce is ending.  Obama now leads among white women by 2 points.  That's HUGE - the clinton girls are coming back once they found out Palin has nothing in common with Hilary beside boobies.

Florida is currently tied at 48 in polls... BUT... When voters have the ability to also choose Nader, barr, or Mckinney, then Obama leads 48 to 44 (CNN today).  There are a lot of people that pick mccain when only given those 2 options, but once they get in the ballot they're picking Barr.  LOTS of liberatrians in South Florida.

Also Obama is only down 2 points in N Carolina, a state that Bush won by 12 despite NC's own John Edwards being on the Dem ticket.   He's now outspending Mccain 10-to-1 in NC, and chances are he'll snatch it away.



As was mentioned earlier, the young people are the LEAST likely to vote. Every political year, we get this "Rock The Vote" stuff, to get youth involved. But, when it's all on the line, the 18-to-25 crowd is MIA.

You cited the CNN Poll about Florida. RCP has McCain up by 5 in Florida, which average several polls, INCLUDING the CNN one that has them tied. RCP has McCain up by 9 in North Carolina.

Obama better spend that money defending some blue states that are in jeopardy (i.e. Michigan and especially Pennsylvania). Remember Obama would have to hold onto ALL of the blue states from 2004 and steal one major red state or several small red states. Gaining those red states does him no good, if he loses a critical blue state, in the process.



Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 05:33:41 PM
You cited the CNN Poll about Florida. RCP has McCain up by 5 in Florida, which average several polls, INCLUDING the CNN one that has them tied. RCP has McCain up by 9 in North Carolina.

RCP averages?

CNN's was today as the Palin surge goes down.  RCP has averages that are over 1 week old?
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: The Coach on September 17, 2008, 05:41:56 PM
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
 
 
RUSH:  I'm watching Senator McCain.  I don't know where he is.  He's doing a campaign appearance right now, and he's bashing Wall Street regulation and this sort of thing.  He's doing a good thing.  He's demanding an investigation.  You know, where is the investigation of all of the individuals involved with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?  I did a little bit more research, you would not believe the extent to which Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae existed to prop up liberal Democrat politicians and their favored agencies and organizations and PACs.  It's just stunning.  Obama is number two, Chris Dodd is number one, Hillary ranks pretty high up there as well.  But they better be careful here because it is clear -- you know, we started yesterday talking about all this, and the thing that's going on here with the financial markets and the housing market, this was not the result of a failure of capitalism. 

This was a result of too much government involvement.  Government gets involved in this stuff, uses these instruments for their own pleasure and their own survival, and when things go south, they blame capitalism and say we need new regulation.  Investor's Business Daily today with a couple of great editorials on this, we'll get to them in just a second.  One of them really takes it to the Clinton administration for getting involved in the whole process of making sure that people who could never pay back a mortgage were given mortgages in the first place.  Carly Fiorina was on David Gregory's show on MSNBC last night, and Gregory said, "Is it inconsistent to say that McCain believes in more regulation and federal bailout, and still talk about belief in free markets?"

FIORINA:  I think you are confusing John McCain's positions by painting it as hands-off, free market laissez-faire.  I think that has been perhaps true of the Bush administration the last four years in terms of a Wild, Wild West with no regulation, but it is definitely not what John McCain believes.  I think the better model for John McCain is Teddy Roosevelt, who believed that there was a robust role for government.  And John McCain has consistently believed there is a role for government, a role for government is to make sure that institutions are accountable and transparent.  But he also has said that, if anyone, Fannie and Freddie frankly shouldn't exist as government entities, that the role to support the mortgage market is not something that the federal government and the American taxpayer should guarantee. 

RUSH:  Now, most of that's right on the money.  But there's something in there that is off target.  Why bash Bush here when all of these regulations and all of these screw-ups originated with Democrats, when Democrats have their hands in the till on Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.  I understand they've gotta distance themselves from Bush because the Democrats are running out saying McCain is just another four years of Bush and so forth, but this is a gratuitous attack on Bush, and it would have been better aimed at Democrats.
 
 
BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH:  Robert B. Reich on the MSNBC last night slips up here and tells the truth that Democrats and Greenspan were responsible for the experiment that gave houses to people who cannot afford them.  Question:  "Were conservative Democrats part of the problem here?"

REICH:  In the latter years of the Clinton administration -- when I was not there any longer, I should add -- there was an attempt by Alan Greenspan and Bob Rubin and a few others to deregulate financial markets, and they did.  They split commercial banking off from investment banking.  And many people say, "Well, that was the beginning of the problem," and then, of course, in 2003-2004, Alan Greenspan reduced short-term interest rates to the point where every single bank wanted to lend money.  I mean, if you could stand up straight you could get a bank loan because there was so much pressure to get that money out the door.  Money was so cheap.  So, yes, there is some responsibility on Democrats, some responsibility on Alan Greenspan and the Fed.

RUSH:  Now, notice, notice here that the Labor Secretary wants to distance himself from any of this, and the little code word conservative Democrats.  Yeah, Bob Rubin, conservative Democrat, Alan Greenspan, conservative Democrat, right.  He slipped up.  The point is all of this started back in the Clinton administration.  You can find it, and it's not just Robert B. Reich saying it, there are others, too.  I'm looking at the Obama campaign in all of this, folks.  I'm watching.  Obama is, right now, saying that McCain doesn't believe in regulating the financial market.  McCain just got through saying he wants to investigate them, for crying out loud.  But where is Obama?  He's now saying we must build a 21st century regulatory framework.  That's what got us into the problem is more and more government, and he's going to illustrate the fact that he wants to get more and more.  He doesn't understand what he's talking about.  Do you realize he hasn't the slightest clue? 

Obama is taking his teleprompter to rodeo appearances!  He's not going to go anywhere without that teleprompter.  Now, how many of you have been to a rodeo and seen somebody speaking out there with a teleprompter?  And they're doing this 'cause they don't trust him.  They have to keep him on message.  When he's without that prompter, he wanders all over, he's simplistic.  I think this entire Democrat campaign is just simplistic.  On the subject of energy, what is their solution?  Blame Big Oil.  On health care, blame the insurance companies.  On the Wall Street problem, blame Republicans.  Not enough regulation.  In the meantime, Obama doesn't have an even rudimentary understanding of how this stuff works.  He didn't understand the capital gains tax when Charlie Gibson asked him about it.  He has no fundamental understanding of some of the most important institutions that have led to this nation's greatness.  All he has is an anger about them, a disrespect for them, a distrust of them because of how he has been educated.  And to listen to Obama say he will change bankruptcy laws so families stay in homes, what, so people who do not have to pay the loans back still get to stay in the house?  Is that what you mean?  "I'll make our laws work for working people."  You already did that.  You already came up with a bunch of laws that allowed working people who couldn't afford to buy houses to buy them, and now look where they are? 

I'm telling you, folks, when these Democrats start telling you they're going to work for you, run for the hills, because what they mean is they are going to work for themselves.  Now, about Carly Fiorina, just a couple words here. She said on MSNBC last night, "I think you're confusing John McCain's position by painting it as hands-off, free market, laissez-faire.  I think that has been perhaps true of the Bush administration in the last few years in terms of the Wild, Wild West in terms of no regulation, but it's definitely not what McCain believes in."  Now, I like Carly Fiorina.  I have never met her, but she presents herself well and the McCain campaign well, but this is a disgrace.  This is a disgrace that she either doesn't know or doesn't have the presence of mind to tell the truth in this appearance last night.  Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have been Democrat controlled and run entities since their founding.  Democrats have made tens of millions of dollars running them, and they have greased the palms of leading Democrats, including Obama. 
 
 
The opposition to reforming them has come from congressional Democrats and former Clinton administration officials.  It has been Republicans who did everything they could to try to get some regulation into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and they were beaten back by the Democrats at every turn when they attempted to try it.  Those are the facts.  This gratuitous attack on Bush is unnecessary.  Bush is not the enemy right now.  They're running against Obama.  They are running against Democrats.  It's not good to promote McCain by embracing the lies about a current sitting Republican president.  It's disloyal, it's dishonest.  She owes Bush an apology.  She has totally mischaracterized him as a wild west, no regulation cowboy.  He was involved in trying to reregulate these things.  Bush has been big government regulator in many ways.  I understand what they have to do.  I understand they have to do.  They have to distance McCain from Bush 'cause Obama and Biden are now back on this tack that it's just four more years of Bush.  But this is what bothers me about this.  I can't turn on a dime and buy into this dumping on Bush as a way to promote McCain 'cause Bush isn't on the ballot, Bush is not running again, Bush is not the enemy.  He is not disliked in a personal way by people that are going to vote for McCain. 

To say Bush is not supportive of regulation is just not true.  He supported lots and lots of it.  This isn't about free markets, as I said yesterday.  We're living in a dream world where people think that this is a laissez-faire free market.  To not use the opportunity as one of McCain's -- she's a senior economic advisor.  You know, she ran Hewlett-Packard.  She's got a tremendous resume of business achievement and success.  Lucent.  The woman is a dynamo.  But to not have enough information at hand to explain how the Democrats were essentially in charge of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, both as executives and in Congress?  Two of the former CEOs of Fannie Mae are working on the Obama campaign as economic advisors.  Franklin Raines and a guy named Jim Johnson.  To not know the history of efforts by Republicans to reform Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and then take Gregory's scenario that this was a Bush and free market failure.  Good Lord, folks.  We spent the whole day yesterday explaining how the free market had nothing to do with this.  This is a result of government getting involved, and now the very people who screwed this up now run it totally.  There's not even the impression of some private sector ownership of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.  This is disappointing.  The enemy is Obama and his literal lack of understanding and in experience in all these matters.  And for that matter, Biden's, too. 

If you find it necessary to distance yourself from Bush, do it on something other than where the Democrats are a prime target.  They are sitting ducks on this.  You can tell the people the truth.  You can educate them and inform them from the bully pulpit of the campaign.  It's not too complicated.  It's just a shame out there.  In fact, San Francisco Chronicle -- which is where Carly Fiorina lives -- a story by Carolyn Lochhead:  "Obama Needs a Sister Souljah Moment."  The thrust of this piece is that Obama should rip the Democrats who protected Fannie and Freddie and allowed this mess to happen.  You have to assume here that we're not talking about a rock-ribbed conservative journalist here.  "Obama has a golden opportunity with the U.S. financial system falling apart at the seams," which it's not falling apart at the seams.  Anybody ever heard of E. F. Hutton?  Where are they today?  They don't exist, Snerdley, they went belly up.  Remember the commercials?  When E. F. Hutton speaks -- yeah, well, where are they?  These things happen all the time.  These investment banking firms go south all the time.  This is not the first time this has happened.  Everybody's historical perspective begins with the day the day they were born.  No, we're not teetering on the edge of a depression. 

We still haven't had one quarter of down economic growth.  The Consumer Price Index is plummeting, meaning inflation is plummeting.  Oil is at 92 bucks a barrel.  The one thing that had people all upset, gas prices, pretty soon they're going to be down to the three-dollar range again.  At any rate, we're not falling apart at the seams.  Let me get back to her piece here.  "Congressional Democrats were and remain the leading defenders of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, promising to resist efforts to shrink the companies, now under government control, and sell off their assets. Democrats had plenty of help from Republicans, to be sure, but it was mainly conservatives who have been warning for more than a decade that their public risk/private profit model was a disaster waiting to happen."  Yes, how in the world can you have a so-called private sector entity -- Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae -- that's owned in part by the government and then say it's private sector?  You can't. 

"If Obama were to use the financial crisis to rise again above partisan orthodoxy, he might shake people out of their party ruts that they are fast falling into. He would have to do so in a way that people understand -- borrowing from the master, Bill Clinton. Obama's unwillingness to take on his own party is his weakness and McCain's strength."  Now, San Francisco Chronicle there, Carolyn Lochhead.  But she inadvertently, as does Robert B. Reich, lays the blame squarely at the feet of Democrats.  Why in the world can people in San Francisco understand this and Robert Reich and McCain's leading economic advisor want to blame Bush for this?  Damn.
 
 
BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH:  The real culprits in this meltdown: "Barack Obama and Democrats blame the historic financial turmoil on the market. But if it's dysfunctional, Democrats during the Clinton years are a prime reason for it."  Let me give you some of the details here from the Investor's Business Daily editorial.  It was the Clinton administration -- and we have Robert B. Reich backing this up on television last night -- "obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street's most revered institutions. Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making." Robert B. Reich just confirmed this last night on TV.  "It was either that or face stiff government penalties," if you didn't loan to these people. 

"The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but 'predatory.'" See, the very people that designed the program that led to all of this mess now get to blame the private sector and they're put back in total control and charge of it. "Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the '90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck. And it was the Clinton administration that mismanaged the quasi- governmental agencies that over the decades have come to manage the real estate market in America. As soon as Clinton crony Franklin Delano Raines took the helm in 1999 at Fannie Mae, for example, he used it as his personal piggy bank, looting it for a total of almost $100 million in compensation by the time he left in early 2005 under an ethical cloud."

Can I translate that for you?  Franklin Raines was a Treasury employee, some sort of cabinet secretary in the Clinton administration.  He ends up at Fannie Mae and pays himself a hundred million bucks from 1999 to 2005, and they finally had to get rid of him because the scandal could not be contained.  Democrats propped up this, Carly!  Bush didn't do any of this.  "Other Clinton cronies, including Janet Reno aide Jamie Gorelick, padded their pockets to the tune of another $75 million." Gorelick again.  "In the end, Fannie had to pay a record $400 million civil fine for SEC and other violations, while also agreeing as part of a settlement to make changes in its accounting procedures and ways of managing risk. But it was too little, too late. Raines had reportedly steered Fannie Mae business to subprime giant Countrywide Financial, which was saved from bankruptcy by Bank of America."  Hello, Mr. Chris Dodd, number one receiver of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae.  "At the same time, the Clinton administration was pushing Fannie and her brother Freddie Mac to buy more mortgages from low-income households. The Clinton-era corruption, combined with unprecedented catering to affordable-housing lobbyists." 

By the way, do you know what affordable housing is?  Housing nobody can pay for.  Housing that people who live in it can't pay.  Affordable housing, that's right, is welfare state housing.  Next time you hear the term "affordable housing" think welfare state housing paid for by you, me, and all the rest.  "The Clinton-era corruption, combined with unprecedented catering to affordable-housing lobbyists, resulted in today's nationalization of both Fannie and Freddie, a move that is expected to cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. ... But the government-can-do-no-wrong crowd just doesn't get it. They won't acknowledge the law of unintended consequences from well- meaning, if misguided, acts."  So here we are, we're back to the old excuse, "Well, our heart's were in the right place."  Forget examining the results, just like the Great Society went south, the war on poverty, all this garbage never works, doesn't matter, we're not supposed to examine the results.  We're supposed to examine their good intentions, the size of their hearts.  All well and good.  Democrats are sitting ducks on this.  Democrats are sitting ducks on the energy issue. Democrats are sitting ducks in the culture war. Democrats, Obama, Biden, are sitting ducks on every back-pocket issue that matters to American families, and we've got McCain people bashing George Bush.  Now, I understand the need for distance here, Bush on popularity.  But find something else to do it, like hunting.  Folks, it pains me.  Obama and the Democrats are sitting ducks on the issue that has Americans feeling unsettled, and that is the economy.  Their money.  Their houses.  Democrats did this!  George Bush did not!
 
 
END TRANSCRIPT
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: polychronopolous on September 17, 2008, 05:43:25 PM
Coach do you have any original thoughts, or do you just cut and paste from conservative websites?

Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 17, 2008, 05:44:04 PM
RCP averages?

CNN's was today as the Palin surge goes down.  RCP has averages that are over 1 week old?

CNN is ONE source; RCP has several sources, many of which are less than a week old.

As it stands now, Colorado is the difference between who wins this election. Obama's ahead by 0.6. That's the difference between a 273-265 Obama edge and a 274-264 McCain edge.

Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: The Coach on September 17, 2008, 05:46:09 PM
Coach do you have any original thoughts, or do you just cut and paste from conservative websites?



The Real Culprits In This Meltdown
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, September 15, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Big Government: Barack Obama and Democrats blame the historic financial turmoil on the market. But if it's dysfunctional, Democrats during the Clinton years are a prime reason for it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read More: Business & Regulation


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Obama in a statement yesterday blamed the shocking new round of subprime-related bankruptcies on the free-market system, and specifically the "trickle-down" economics of the Bush administration, which he tried to gig opponent John McCain for wanting to extend.

But it was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street's most revered institutions.

Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but "predatory."

Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the '90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck.

And it was the Clinton administration that mismanaged the quasi-governmental agencies that over the decades have come to manage the real estate market in America.

As soon as Clinton crony Franklin Delano Raines took the helm in 1999 at Fannie Mae, for example, he used it as his personal piggy bank, looting it for a total of almost $100 million in compensation by the time he left in early 2005 under an ethical cloud.

Other Clinton cronies, including Janet Reno aide Jamie Gorelick, padded their pockets to the tune of another $75 million.

Raines was accused of overstating earnings and shifting losses so he and other senior executives could earn big bonuses.

In the end, Fannie had to pay a record $400 million civil fine for SEC and other violations, while also agreeing as part of a settlement to make changes in its accounting procedures and ways of managing risk.

But it was too little, too late. Raines had reportedly steered Fannie Mae business to subprime giant Countrywide Financial, which was saved from bankruptcy by Bank of America.

At the same time, the Clinton administration was pushing Fannie and her brother Freddie Mac to buy more mortgages from low-income households.

The Clinton-era corruption, combined with unprecedented catering to affordable-housing lobbyists, resulted in today's nationalization of both Fannie and Freddie, a move that is expected to cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.

And the worst is far from over. By the time it is, we'll all be paying for Clinton's social experiment, one that Obama hopes to trump with a whole new round of meddling in the housing and jobs markets. In fact, the social experiment Obama has planned could dwarf both the Great Society and New Deal in size and scope.

There's a political root cause to this mess that we ignore at our peril. If we blame the wrong culprits, we'll learn the wrong lessons. And taxpayers will be on the hook for even larger bailouts down the road.

But the government-can-do-no-wrong crowd just doesn't get it. They won't acknowledge the law of unintended consequences from well-meaning, if misguided, acts.

Obama and Democrats on the Hill think even more regulation and more interference in the market will solve the problem their policies helped cause. For now, unarmed by the historic record, conventional wisdom is buying into their blame-business-first rhetoric and bigger-government solutions.

While government arguably has a role in helping low-income folks buy a home, Clinton went overboard by strong-arming lenders with tougher and tougher regulations, which only led to lenders taking on hundreds of billions in subprime bilge.

Market failure? Hardly. Once again, this crisis has government's fingerprints all over it.

http://ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306370789279709
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 17, 2008, 05:48:29 PM
LOL @ blaming Clinton for the uncontrolled borrowing from 02 thru 05.

Repubs owned white house and the congress.  They could do anything they wanted.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Howard on September 17, 2008, 06:06:39 PM
The fucking dems caused ALL this.Fanny and Freddy were democrat controlled.THEY wanted to give loans for housing to minorities and those who couldnt afford it.Now they are reaping what they sowed.Once again,libs love to give shit away to those who dont deserve it and cant pay for it.
It was caused by a complete roll back of the investment banking regulations from 6-7 yrs ago when congress was all republican.
Do you even know anything about the economy?
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 06:10:58 PM
FL Obama 48% McSame 48%
OH Obama 49% McSame 48%
NC Obama 47% McSame 48%

These are new CNN time research polls just released this evening.  McSame had a 5% lead on Obama in FL last week, that is now gone. ;)
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Tre on September 17, 2008, 06:13:43 PM
CNN is ONE source; RCP has several sources, many of which are less than a week old.

As it stands now, Colorado is the difference between who wins this election. Obama's ahead by 0.6. That's the difference between a 273-265 Obama edge and a 274-264 McCain edge.

I think Obama is going to win Colorado, but I don't think that will be enough. 
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Howard on September 17, 2008, 06:48:34 PM
LOL @ blaming Clinton for the uncontrolled borrowing from 02 thru 05.

Repubs owned white house and the congress.  They could do anything they wanted.
LOL, so true! next they will blame Clinton for staying in Iraq.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: The Coach on September 17, 2008, 07:06:15 PM
........all the while Obama is taking contributions from Fanny and Freddie.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: calfzilla on September 17, 2008, 07:22:54 PM

The young and stupid always vote for the liberal.  Then when they get older, learn how life works, and come to understand there's no free lunch most of them become conservatives.


The biggest reason the posters on this board are 80+% Obama supporters is that being a bodybuilding board, a disproportionate share of posters here are young.
yeah I agree that was me.  Now that I'm older 26, my views are more conservative.  No way I could stand going to college today and getting fed all the liberal crap by most of the professors.  When I was younger I didn't know better I thought they were being objective and actually giving us the education we were paying for.  But looking back I can't believe how unprofessional and unethical a lot of them were with their liberal bias. 
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MattT on September 17, 2008, 10:45:59 PM
yeah I agree that was me.  Now that I'm older 26, my views are more conservative.  No way I could stand going to college today and getting fed all the liberal crap by most of the professors.  When I was younger I didn't know better I thought they were being objective and actually giving us the education we were paying for.  But looking back I can't believe how unprofessional and unethical a lot of them were with their liberal bias. 

 ::)  sure yeh we want to put another republican in the white house, so we can enjoy another 4 years of peace and prosperity ::)  As things are just doing so great in America right now under republican power.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Dreadlord on September 17, 2008, 10:54:04 PM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war

 :D
Nice
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: big L dawg on September 18, 2008, 12:25:37 AM
I thought election winners were predetermined now.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 18, 2008, 12:27:33 AM
I thought election winners were predetermined now.
yea, if it's a close election, the republican wins.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: IFBBwannaB on September 18, 2008, 01:32:25 AM

Now you're just being stupid, Rob...   I expect this kind of sentiment from the kids on here, but you know damn well what happens if we let the financial system melt down.  It's not a matter on one bank "failing"...  everything's so intertwined these days, that chain reactions are pretty damn easy to start, and that's what we're on the brink of now. Then liquidity dries up, then regular "main street" businesses start to fail because they can't get the capital they need to operate, then people start losing their jobs en mass, then everything snowballs from there and we're back in 1929.  Paulson and Bernanke are doing their best to keep that from happening, and media-types who know jack shit about economics who disingenuously present these "bailouts" in the way you just did are not helping the situation.

And while I agree the spending on the war is not helpful, if we'd let Saddam torpedo the dollar or worse threaten oil supplies, we'd have had another problem.



Sure, to most idiots out there, all Mr. Barack "Change but no substance" Obama has to do is wave his magic wand and soon the rivers will all be flowing with milk and honey, there will be a BMW in every driveway, and every high-school dropout will have a $70,000/yr job he doesn't have to work too hard at, but I think you know better than that.  We're seeing things threaten our economy and thus our way of life that weren't even on the horizon a decade ago, and hard choices would have to be made no matter who is in office, and we'd be in the current situation even if President Kerry were in the white house.


Do you really expect 240 to have any sensible opinion?
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 18, 2008, 04:53:46 AM
FL Obama 48% McSame 48%
OH Obama 49% McSame 48%
NC Obama 47% McSame 48%

These are new CNN time research polls just released this evening.  McSame had a 5% lead on Obama in FL last week, that is now gone. ;)

Fox just released a poll that has McCain back up by 5 in Florida. And he's ahead by 2 in Colorado.

More importantly, for both candidates, according to this poll, they are TIED in both Virginia (big concern for McCain) and Pennsylvania (big concern for Obama).

Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 18, 2008, 04:57:28 AM
Fox just released a poll that has McCain back up by 5 in Florida. And he's ahead by 2 in Colorado.

More importantly, for both candidates, according to this poll, they are TIED in both Virginia (big concern for McCain) and Pennsylvania (big concern for Obama).


if it stays the same, McSame will win.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: MCWAY on September 18, 2008, 05:15:05 AM
if it stays the same, McSame will win.

As I said, if Colorado remains red (with these other factors put into place), McCain wins 274-264.

If Virginia and Pennsylvania flip, it's McCain 282-256

If Obama keeps Pennsylvania, gets Virginia, and holds Colorado, Obama wins 286-252.

If Obama keeps Pennsylvania, gets Virginia, but McCain keeps Colorado, Obama gets it 277-261.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: 240 is Back on September 18, 2008, 05:25:57 AM

Now you're just being stupid, Rob...   I expect this kind of sentiment from the kids on here, but you know damn well what happens if we let the financial system melt down.  It's not a matter on one bank "failing"...  everything's so intertwined these days, that chain reactions are pretty damn easy to start, and that's what we're on the brink of now. Then liquidity dries up, then regular "main street" businesses start to fail because they can't get the capital they need to operate, then people start losing their jobs en mass, then everything snowballs from there and we're back in 1929.  Paulson and Bernanke are doing their best to keep that from happening, and media-types who know jack shit about economics who disingenuously present these "bailouts" in the way you just did are not helping the situation.

And while I agree the spending on the war is not helpful, if we'd let Saddam torpedo the dollar or worse threaten oil supplies, we'd have had another problem.

Sure, to most idiots out there, all Mr. Barack "Change but no substance" Obama has to do is wave his magic wand and soon the rivers will all be flowing with milk and honey, there will be a BMW in every driveway, and every high-school dropout will have a $70,000/yr job he doesn't have to work too hard at, but I think you know better than that.  We're seeing things threaten our economy and thus our way of life that weren't even on the horizon a decade ago, and hard choices would have to be made no matter who is in office, and we'd be in the current situation even if President Kerry were in the white house.

I know some of the bailouts were required - too big to fail.  I guess it's just sour grapes that Bush's bravado over the last 8 years is biting us now.  Every chance he had to spit in the eye of world leaders, or refuse UN asssistance in Iraq... Those fvcking Bush tax cuts on the rich during the good times.

If he'd have just taxed during that time, we wouldn't be in this shit now.  I remember an interview with Gore in 2007 where he was outright pissed about the specific warnings Bush had on 911, and how 911 led to these two wars, and I see how it all comes together.  I just have to think that with Gore at the wheel, 911 wouldn't have been allowed to happen, and we would have taken a different path, and wouldn't be in this shitstorm today.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: headhuntersix on September 18, 2008, 06:46:04 AM
Ok 240 what in the 8 years of Clinton makes u say that. Gore, like the rest of the Dems would have done nothing.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: leland000 on September 18, 2008, 07:58:07 AM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war

Brilliant insight and analysis such as this makes it easy to identify you as a truly noteworthy economist. This country has finally found the modern day William McChesney Martin Jr. it so desperately needs. I'm going to have to go out on a limb and assume your Ph.D. is either from Harvard or Columbia.

Or maybe you're just some white trash dipshit who spends too much time on the internet addressing subjects in which he doesn't even posess an elementary understanding of.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: leland000 on September 18, 2008, 08:18:06 AM
FL Obama 48% McSame 48%
OH Obama 49% McSame 48%
NC Obama 47% McSame 48%

These are new CNN time research polls just released this evening.  McSame had a 5% lead on Obama in FL last week, that is now gone. ;)

Nothing like poll analysis from uneducated Canadians. The Republican Party has carried Fl in 3 of the last 4 elections, and NC in all 4. McCain will win Ohio no problem, as well as Virginia, West Virginia, and Colorado.

Can you even identify Florida on a map? We already know that Dubai is a tough one for you. Here's an idea...get a map and use your finger to point to the area in which you have citizenship. Do you see that it's not the United States? You don't even get a friggin vote!

Your fruity man love can now be redirected towards Will Harris.....your Obama pipe dream is dead.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: headhuntersix on September 18, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
I like this guy, welcome to the Pol board.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: tu_holmes on September 18, 2008, 09:42:01 AM
Nothing like poll analysis from uneducated Canadians. The Republican Party has carried Fl in 3 of the last 4 elections, and NC in all 4. McCain will win Ohio no problem, as well as Virginia, West Virginia, and Colorado.

Can you even identify Florida on a map? We already know that Dubai is a tough one for you. Here's an idea...get a map and use your finger to point to the area in which you have citizenship. Do you see that it's not the United States? You don't even get a friggin vote!

Your fruity man love can now be redirected towards Will Harris.....your Obama pipe dream is dead.

Actually, Virginia and Colorado may or may not be as solid as you think.

Virginia's current Democratic governor and Virginia's leanings in general these days may very well go blue.

McCain made a huge fuck up in Colorado by promoting the redistribution of their water supply or some such... I know personally many republicans who have stated that due to that single comment, they will not be voting for John McCain.

The rest I agree with completely.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Decker on September 18, 2008, 09:47:05 AM
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Social Security
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to fix Medicare
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to provide health care to ALL Americans
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help out Americans losing their homes
We don't have ENOUGH MONEY to help all our veterans returning from war

BUT

We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out Bears Stearns
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to bail out AIG
We DO HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for an unnecessary TRILLION DOLLAR war
All politics come down to values and you've just made a great statement about what republicans value and what democrats value.

Now let's sit back and watch middle america cut its own throat by voting for Big Mac and against their own self-interest. 
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Howard on September 18, 2008, 10:43:37 AM
Nothing like poll analysis from uneducated Canadians. The Republican Party has carried Fl in 3 of the last 4 elections, and NC in all 4. McCain will win Ohio no problem, as well as Virginia, West Virginia, and Colorado.

Can you even identify Florida on a map? We already know that Dubai is a tough one for you. Here's an idea...get a map and use your finger to point to the area in which you have citizenship. Do you see that it's not the United States? You don't even get a friggin vote!

Your fruity man love can now be redirected towards Will Harris.....your Obama pipe dream is dead.
That all changed on Sept 15 with the financial meltdown.
FL is even and NC is within 2 % Ohio went from McCain uo by 4 to now down by 2.
Fair or not McCain was and is the king of deregulation and unrestricted free trade.
Those policies resulted in the unregulated short selling that was the root of the proble
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Colossus_500 on September 18, 2008, 10:52:28 AM
Gallup Daily: Obama 48%, McCain 44%
Marks Obama’s first statistically significant lead in two weeks

PRINCETON, NJ -- The Sept. 15-17 Gallup Poll Daily tracking update shows Barack Obama with a 48% to 44% lead over John McCain among registered voters, marking the first time that Obama has held a statistically significant lead in two weeks.

The presidential race has essentially devolved back to a structure very similar to what pertained throughout the months of June and July, during which time Obama consistently averaged a three percentage point lead over McCain. There have been fairly significant shifts over the last several weeks, including periods of time in and around the conventions during which both Obama and McCain established leads, and times when the race was essentially tied. But beginning this week, it appears the voters have settled, for the moment, back into the familiar pattern in which the race remains close with a slight tilt towards Obama.

Separate Gallup tracking shows that consumer confidence has become significantly more negative as this week progressed, signifying that Americans are clearly paying attention to the major problems facing Wall Street and the big drops in the stock market on Monday and Wednesday. It is not possible to determine precisely how much of Obama's gain this week may have been directly caused by Americans' reactions to the economic stories dominating news coverage in newspapers, television, and on the Internet, although this is a plausible explanation. (To view the complete trend since March 7, 2008, click here.) -- Frank Newport

Survey Methods

For the Gallup Poll Daily tracking survey, Gallup is interviewing no fewer than 1,000 U.S. adults nationwide each day during 2008.

The general-election results are based on combined data from Sept. 15-17, 2008. For results based on this sample of 2,815 registered voters, the maximum margin of sampling error is ±2 percentage points.

Interviews are conducted with respondents on land-line telephones (for respondents with a land-line telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell-phone only).

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.


Copyright © 2008 Gallup, Inc. All rights reserved.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: leland000 on September 18, 2008, 06:51:25 PM
That all changed on Sept 15 with the financial meltdown.
FL is even and NC is within 2 % Ohio went from McCain uo by 4 to now down by 2.
Fair or not McCain was and is the king of deregulation and unrestricted free trade.
Those policies resulted in the unregulated short selling that was the root of the proble

Do you understand what the words has and will mean? I don't care about September 15th, October 15th, or whatever poll you're reading.

Facts:
Republican Party carried FL and CO in 3 of the last 4 elections
Republican Party carried NC and VA in all 4
Republican Party carried OH and WV last election

200 + years and 43 Presidents and they have all shared one common characteristic....they were all white. This country is roughly 80% white and people make a lot of decisions based on race whether they admit it or not. Hate to rain on your parade, but your about forty years too early.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: big L dawg on September 18, 2008, 08:31:20 PM
Do you understand what the words has and will mean? I don't care about September 15th, October 15th, or whatever poll you're reading.

Facts:
Republican Party carried FL and CO in 3 of the last 4 elections
Republican Party carried NC and VA in all 4
Republican Party carried OH and WV last election

200 + years and 43 Presidents and they have all shared one common characteristic....they were all white. This country is roughly 80% white and people make a lot of decisions based on race whether they admit it or not. Hate to rain on your parade, but your about forty years too early.

so your saying the issues don't matter.the winner is predetermined.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: IFBBwannaB on September 19, 2008, 12:10:46 AM

Those policies resulted in the unregulated short selling that was the root of the proble


Hmmm NO.

Just look outside of the US, only the US have all of its  banking system collapse while other countries that have unregulated free markets too have a very small direct hit from this.

Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Desolate on September 19, 2008, 01:00:56 AM
Our markets are the measure for the entire world.

When we sneeze, everyone catches a cold.

We're hated because it took us less that 200 years to rule the Earth.

It is better to be hated and feared than it is to be loved.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: Decker on September 19, 2008, 05:31:15 AM
Our markets are the measure for the entire world.

When we sneeze, everyone catches a cold.

We're hated because it took us less that 200 years to rule the Earth.

It is better to be hated and feared than it is to be loved.
Is that what you tell your kids?
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: tu_holmes on September 19, 2008, 09:49:17 AM
Those policies resulted in the unregulated short selling that was the root of the proble

I disagree Howard... The financial blunder of saying that "Every person should own a home" and then giving loans to those unworthy or at the very least unable to pay, and the banks full well knowing they would eventually not be able to is the root of this problem.

Personally, I believe that any business which can not sustain itself should be held accountable and if that means a fire sale because of bankruptcy, so be it.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: headhuntersix on September 19, 2008, 09:55:46 AM
I disagree Howard... The financial blunder of saying that "Every person should own a home" and then giving loans to those unworthy or at the very least unable to pay, and the banks full well knowing they would eventually not be able to is the root of this problem.

Personally, I believe that any business which can not sustain itself should be held accountable and if that means a fire sale because of bankruptcy, so be it.


Correct, these banks knew they'd never pay it back and bet that it would work out when they refi'd the loans. They did not bet that the market would fall.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: leland000 on September 19, 2008, 10:07:26 AM
so your saying the issues don't matter.the winner is predetermined.

I never uttered the word predetermined. I made factual statements. It also happens to be my opinion that McCain will win the election, and it will not be as close as people think. Is race not an issue? If you don't think that a large number of people will be casting their vote based on skin color...then you're living in la la land. I don't know what religion you observe nor do I care, but if you happen to be Catholic, and receive Catholic newspapers, or listen to Catholic radio you'll easily see why Obama is f'd. Catholic politics can accurately be characterized as the passing of the Democratic monolith...the winning candidate is the one who wins the Catholic vote and it's going to McCain. Obama is cooked.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: big L dawg on September 19, 2008, 10:34:49 AM
I never uttered the word predetermined. I made factual statements. It also happens to be my opinion that McCain will win the election, and it will not be as close as people think. Is race not an issue? If you don't think that a large number of people will be casting their vote based on skin color...then you're living in la la land. I don't know what religion you observe nor do I care, but if you happen to be Catholic, and receive Catholic newspapers, or listen to Catholic radio you'll easily see why Obama is f'd. Catholic politics can accurately be characterized as the passing of the Democratic monolith...the winning candidate is the one who wins the Catholic vote and it's going to McCain. Obama is cooked.

I didn't think catholics had time to pay attention...I mean with all the attention they give little boys and all.
Title: Re: Obama takes back his lead in the Polls
Post by: leland000 on September 19, 2008, 11:43:41 AM
I didn't think catholics had time to pay attention...I mean with all the attention they give little boys and all.

Blanket statements...you must be a Rhodes Scholar. Common sense tells us that there are bad apples in every bunch.

3.5% of children in the US are victims of sexual misconduct in our public schools

There are over 400,000 registered sex offenders in the US and Dr. Gene Abel estimates that between 1% and 5% of our population molest children.

There are 55,000 Roman Catholic priests...why don't you tell me how many have been accused or charged with any form of sexual misconduct?

FACTS
The percentage is less than .8%
The percentage and number are both less than the % and number of school teachers, coaches, Protestant ministers, and the general public.

Child molestation is not a Catholic problem it's a disgusting global problem! You must be extremely intelligent to identify 1,100,000,000 people as sexual predators.

African Americans in the US....
have the lowest HS graduation rates
have the lowest college graduation rates
have the lowest personal and median household incomes
have the highest unemployment rate
have the highest rate of absentee fathers
have the highest rate of drug users
have the highest rate of hiv infection
have the highest rate of arrests, convictions, and violent crimes committed

Should I just lump Obama into all of those categories because of his skin color? Do you see how insanely stupid and offensive your blanket statement is?