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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: The Luke on October 07, 2008, 03:21:27 PM
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Okay, it's time someone said it... so I'm going to say it... (sorry it's so long, but it's worth it)
JOHN McCAIN IS THROWING THIS ELECTION! DELIBERATELY!
Let me explain...
In the 2000 Republican Party primaries John McCain was dirty-tricked/swift-boated by Karl Rove in his efforts to steal the White House with an Evangelical candidate that appealed to the ignorant Christian voting block.
This smear took the form of asking prospective Republican voters if they would still vote for John McCain if they discovered he had fathered an illegitimate black baby. The hypothetical query was put to voters the week before a photo of John McCain, his wife Cindy, their children and youngest daughter Bridget (who was adopted in 1993 by the McCains from one of Mother Theresa's orphanages) appeared in several newspapers and was pushed as a campaign image by Karl Rove.
The prospective redneck/Evangelical voting block was sufficiently uncomfortable with this image (and sufficiently ignorant of the racial differences between Indians and blacks) to resist drawing their own conclusions regarding the veracity of Rove's smear tactic.
Consequently, John McCain lost the Republican party presidential nomination to moronic god-bot George Dubya, to the lasting detriment of human civilization.
Fast forward to 2008... John McCain wins the Republican party presidential nomination by, essentially, becoming a quasi-George-Dubya... in crass contrast to his previous positions. (How many high profile Republicans have lamented that they would prefer to vote for the old-style John McCain, rather than the current incarnation?)
But why has John McCain done this?
I know why...
John McCain's skin cancer is terminal.
John McCain has decided to destroy the Republican party... or at least take the Evangelical power base down with him. The same base that thwarted his best chance at being president: the 2000 election.
Consider the facts:
-John McCain fights back from being an also-ran to being the presumptive Republican nominee: in effect he ran such a good campaign that no one else could keep up... then suddenly he can't do anything right
-he picks the absolute worst possible running mate
-he claims he didn't vet Palin, yet she is exactly what is needed to finally split real Republicans off from the Evangelicals: Dubya in a dress but even more Christey... and even more ignorant
-he squanders campaign money on blatantly false smear ads, which only help Obama when the fact-checkers do their thing
-he misquotes facts and statistics to an alarming degree during the debates... more fact-checking
-he suspends his campaign in order to deal with the bailout, yet he doesn't speak at the meetings... even when Obama does
-he not only defends Palin's missteps but repeats them, and lets her campaign unsupervised
...he's at least competent enough to do better than this. He's at least competent enough that his continuous wrong-turn-only campaigning is somewhat suspicious.
Obama is going to win this election with a populist landslide (70% of the popular vote and 400 electoral college votes). He'll serve THREE terms... desperate times mandate desperate measures, fuck that amendment.
In the aftermath of such a debacle the Republican Party is going to split into a traditional, fiscally-conservative but SECULAR Constitutionalist Party (Ron Paul will head this "New GOP") and a super-Christian ignorant-hypocrite party that will back a disastrous third-party Palin presidential bid in 2012.
Discuss...
The Luke
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LOL, I like a good conspiracy theory but I don't think he is. This is a product of the economy. If Obama had a normal name and was was white, he'd be 18 points ahead. If the economy were not bad, he'd be behind in the polls.
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LOL, I like a good conspiracy theory but I don't think he is. This is a product of the economy. If Obama had a normal name and was was white, he'd be 18 points ahead. If the economy were not bad, he'd be behind in the polls.
If Obama had a normal name and was white, he wouldn't have beaten Clinton in the primaries.
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Okay, it's time someone said it... so I'm going to say it... (sorry it's so long, but it's worth it)
JOHN McCAIN IS THROWING THIS ELECTION! DELIBERATELY!
Let me explain...
In the 2000 Republican Party primaries John McCain was dirty-tricked/swift-boated by Karl Rove in his efforts to steal the White House with an Evangelical candidate that appealed to the ignorant Christian voting block.
This smear took the form of asking prospective Republican voters if they would still vote for John McCain if they discovered he had fathered an illegitimate black baby. The hypothetical query was put to voters the week before a photo of John McCain, his wife Cindy, their children and youngest daughter Bridget (who was adopted in 1993 by the McCains from one of Mother Theresa's orphanages) appeared in several newspapers and was pushed as a campaign image by Karl Rove.
The prospective redneck/Evangelical voting block was sufficiently uncomfortable with this image (and sufficiently ignorant of the racial differences between Indians and blacks) to resist drawing their own conclusions regarding the veracity of Rove's smear tactic.
Consequently, John McCain lost the Republican party presidential nomination to moronic god-bot George Dubya, to the lasting detriment of human civilization.
Fast forward to 2008... John McCain wins the Republican party presidential nomination by, essentially, becoming a quasi-George-Dubya... in crass contrast to his previous positions. (How many high profile Republicans have lamented that they would prefer to vote for the old-style John McCain, rather than the current incarnation?)
But why has John McCain done this?
I know why...
John McCain's skin cancer is terminal.
John McCain has decided to destroy the Republican party... or at least take the Evangelical power base down with him. The same base that thwarted his best chance at being president: the 2000 election.
Consider the facts:
-John McCain fights back from being an also-ran to being the presumptive Republican nominee: in effect he ran such a good campaign that no one else could keep up... then suddenly he can't do anything right
-he picks the absolute worst possible running mate
-he claims he didn't vet Palin, yet she is exactly what is needed to finally split real Republicans off from the Evangelicals: Dubya in a dress but even more Christey... and even more ignorant
-he squanders campaign money on blatantly false smear ads, which only help Obama when the fact-checkers do their thing
-he misquotes facts and statistics to an alarming degree during the debates... more fact-checking
-he suspends his campaign in order to deal with the bailout, yet he doesn't speak at the meetings... even when Obama does
-he not only defends Palin's missteps but repeats them, and lets her campaign unsupervised
...he's at least competent enough to do better than this. He's at least competent enough that his continuous wrong-turn-only campaigning is somewhat suspicious.
Obama is going to win this election with a populist landslide (70% of the popular vote and 400 electoral college votes). He'll serve THREE terms... desperate times mandate desperate measures, fuck that amendment.
In the aftermath of such a debacle the Republican Party is going to split into a traditional, fiscally-conservative but SECULAR Constitutionalist Party (Ron Paul will head this "New GOP") and a super-Christian ignorant-hypocrite party that will back a disastrous third-party Palin presidential bid in 2012.
Discuss...
The Luke
Great post, interesting theory.
I disagree, however, because I beleive you have underestimated the strength of the 'stupid vote'. The more evidence of dishonesty against their candidates (and Palin LOCKS up the stupid vote) the more recalcitrant they become.
So when the fact checkers discover anything, they simply label them part of the liberal agenda and reject it.
Liked the post, though.
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LOL, I like a good conspiracy theory but I don't think he is. This is a product of the economy.
That doesn't explain why he:
1-picked Palin WITHOUT vetting her properly (or did he pick her to destroy the party)
2-hasn't pressured Palin to drop out for "personal reasons" and replaced her with a more competent woman
Everything McCain has done SINCE he won the nomination has directly benefited Obama... BEFORE he became the presumptive nominee he waged a very, very savvy campaign... a careful, tactical, attrition end-game that beat out some very very deep pockets (Romney) and some media darlings (Guiliani and Thompson).
McCain could have picked Ron Paul as his running mate or even Kucinich. Both of whom would have fit very well with the original (traditional Republican) John McCain.
Instead he picked Palin... either Romney or even Jeb Bush would have satisfied the Jebus freaks... Palin is the absolute worst route to the Christian voting block. She is more divisive than unifying...
McCain is sewing the seeds of an ideological schism in the Republican party... pitting traditional fiscally responsible small-government Republicans against Evangelical neocons. As I've predicted it will end with Ron Paul running a secular traditionalist GOP (I predict they'll be named "Constitutional Republicans") and Palin running for president under the aegis of an Evangelical third party ("The Rapture Party" ha-ha).
The Luke
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Just watched the second debate...
I'm now even more convinced:
-"this one" pointing to Obama
-the phrase "...gold plated cadillac..."
-talking about "honour" and "victory" regarding Iraq? He might as well have shouted that he hadn't gotten over losing Vietnam. That's just reminding everyone of Palin's "white flag" non sequitur.
...mark my words, McCain is throwing this election.
If my conspiracy theory is correct, then expect McCain to make a major gaffe sometime closer to the election: a faked heart attack; bout of senile forgetfulness during a debate; a public stumbling; or maybe he'll feed Palin a clunker... I'm hoping he does it in style and calls Obama an Uncle Tom during the last debate.
The Luke
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It could have tossed it easier than that if he wanted to.
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It could have tossed it easier than that if he wanted to.
Hugo,
What he's doing is slowly, slowly, incrementally alienating his base... he's slowly, carefully portraying himself as someone who explains financial/economic problems in a condescending simplistic manner.
That's straight out of the George Bush playbook...
Whenever Bush answers a complex question, he spells out the barest framework of the situation in simplistic terms... so all you find out is how Cheney and Rumsfeld explained it to his washed-up recovering coke addict ignorant ass.
McCain is doing this continuously through the debates, on every question... he seldom did it before he became the presumptive nominee.
The Luke
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I've changed the thread title...
Maybe a few more people will respond if they aren't put off by such a title.
The Luke
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Why would John McCain want to do this?
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Why would John McCain want to do this?
...read my first post in this thread carefully.
I think it should be obvious to most observant spectators why McCain is doing this... he feels the Bush presidency should have been the McCain presidency, and now that he's terminal with cancer he knows he won't live long enough even if he wins.
The Luke
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...read my first post in this thread carefully.
I think it should be obvious to most observant spectators why McCain is doing this... he feels the Bush presidency should have been the McCain presidency, and now that he's terminal with cancer he knows he won't live long enough even if he wins.
The Luke
I see your reasoning, so just vengeance?
Also, John McCain's cancer is terminal?
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Also, John McCain's cancer is terminal?
...he's acting like a man with no future plans.
Picking Palin as a running mate is hardly putting "Country First", it's more: I'm a sickly old man, bit if I die in office (30% chance) then Dubya-in-a-dress can take over.
But picking Palin as a running mate is EXACTLY the kind of thing that would force the coming schism in the Republican party between secularists and Jebus-freak neocons... after an Obama win.
McCain is giving the neocons what they've always wanted... enough rope to hang themselves with.
The same thing happened with Abstainers (the religious anti-alcohol lobby) of the the early 20th century. Managing to pass the Prohibition Act was the downfall of the movement. The silent majority aren't really silent... they're just lazy. You can only push them so far before they push back... hard!
Palin getting the VP nod is the death knell of the Christian right voting block.
Similarly, if an anti-evolution bill ever passed it would be the end of the Creationist movement... you can spout shite only till the point where you discover that the presumably tacitly sympathetic majority will no longer tolerate it because they never agreed with it.
The Luke
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If McCain was serious about winning this election he would have chosen Rice. that would have locked up the black votes and the women's vote.
Or maybe of course... McCain really is this stupid.
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If McCain was serious about winning this election he would have chosen Rice. that would have locked up the black votes and the women's vote.
Or maybe of course... McCain really is this stupid.
are you kidding? You think Rice is popular with blacks because she's black?
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...he's acting like a man with no future plans.
Picking Palin as a running mate is hardly putting "Country First", it's more: I'm a sickly old man, bit if I die in office (30% chance) then Dubya-in-a-dress can take over.
But picking Palin as a running mate is EXACTLY the kind of thing that would force the coming schism in the Republican party between secularists and Jebus-freak neocons... after an Obama win.
McCain is giving the neocons what they've always wanted... enough rope to hang themselves with.
The same thing happened with Abstainers (the religious anti-alcohol lobby) of the the early 20th century. Managing to pass the Prohibition Act was the downfall of the movement. The silent majority aren't really silent... they're just lazy. You can only push them so far before they push back... hard!
Palin getting the VP nod is the death knell of the Christian right voting block.
Similarly, if an anti-evolution bill ever passed it would be the end of the Creationist movement... you can spout shite only till the point where you discover that the presumably tacitly sympathetic majority will no longer tolerate it because they never agreed with it.
The Luke
You are preaching to the choir here about Palin. It appeared like a brilliant move at first that has now started to backfire on him.
But your theory seems to hinge on the unproven fact of McCain's terminal cancer.
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But your theory seems to hinge on the unproven fact of McCain's terminal cancer.
...if he isn't terminal (or out to destroy the neocons) then why doesn't he run the type of campaign that won him the nomination in the first place?
The Luke
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...if he isn't terminal (or out to destroy the neocons) then why doesn't he run the type of campaign that won him the nomination in the first place?
The Luke
Securing a nomination and running a presidential campaign are 2 different things. To get nominated you have to appeal to your ideological base while in a presidential race you have to appeal to the independent, moderate or middle voters.
McCain is behind and his who ever is advising him or running his campaign perhaps believes slinging doubt about Obama is the best way to influence votes.
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That's exactly my point... he didn't appeal to the base during the primaries, there was no pandering to the Evangelicals... he ran a pretty solid, basic Republican platform: reducing taxes and limiting government.
Now that he is the nominee he's been openly pandering to the Evangelicals (Palin) and offering tax cuts only to the wealthy...
Something's not right.
The Luke
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On Anderson Cooper 360 right now (I have CNN... it's 3:30am here) they are discussing whether McCain's chronic negative campaigning might lead to violence?
Anderson Cooper is actually asking why McCain would deliberately ruin his legacy this late in his career?
One of the experts (didn't catch his name: bald fat guy 50's with a grey goatee) actually posited that McCain might "bring down the party".
Off to bed...
The Luke
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That's exactly my point... he didn't appeal to the base during the primaries, there was no pandering to the Evangelicals... he ran a pretty solid, basic Republican platform: reducing taxes and limiting government.
Now that he is the nominee he's been openly pandering to the Evangelicals (Palin) and offering tax cuts only to the wealthy...
Something's not right.
The Luke
I didn't follow that primary that close. McCain seemed to come out of nowhere to get the nomination when in December of 2007 his campaign manager was calling it quits. I question that.
As far as pandering to the bible belt, 2 of the other three candidates didn't bode well for the evangelicals with Romney being mormon and Gullliani being divorced 3 times. That left Huckabee who seemed way too religious for the mainstream republican voters and wasn't well known enough. So McCain may have not needed to appeal so much to them.
McCain's current campaign seems to be operating from a position of weakness by constantly attacking Obama. I don't think it indicates a hidden agenda but instead desperation because he lacks charisma, he's behind in the polls and he is linked to Bush.
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On Anderson Cooper 360 right now (I have CNN... it's 3:30am here) they are discussing whether McCain's chronic negative campaigning might lead to violence?
Anderson Cooper is actually asking why McCain would deliberately ruin his legacy this late in his career?
One of the experts (didn't catch his name: bald fat guy 50's with a grey goatee) actually posited that McCain might "bring down the party".
Off to bed...
The Luke
wow.
Then the question would be: was it deliberate or because of a bad decision on tactics?
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Why McCain will win:
(http://www2.nau.edu/~ar24/images/mpsh.gif)
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If Obama had a normal name and was white, he wouldn't have beaten Clinton in the primaries.
owned! hes brittney spears as they put it..... cauesd alot of attention. both mccain and obama are pieces of shit.... fake as hell and looking to milk the american dollar. we need change another party to change it, but it wont happen
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Having allowed Palin to push the anti-Obama rhetoric to the point that even mainstream Republicans are becoming disenfranchised by the racism; ignorance and xenophobia, McCain then alienates his base and gently urges moderates disgusted by the hate-mongering to consider Obama.
It's official... John McCain is campaigning for Obama, and he's taking the Evangelicals down with him!
The Luke
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said awhile ago mccain is a lameduck candidate.
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Why McCain will win:
(http://www2.nau.edu/~ar24/images/mpsh.gif)
BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHA
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Okay, I'm going to make a prediction:
If my theory is correct, namely that McCain has terminal cancer or doesn't have long to live and has decided to take down the Evangelicals and/or split the Republican party into secular and theocratic factions by deliberately throwing the election... then one of three things are going to happen:
-McCain will demonstratively throw the election:
...a "senior moment" during a debate
...a wild public accusation: Obama is Muslim/terrorist/communist
...insult Obama or make some obvious factual error
-McCain will feign a mild heart-attack/collapse/fainting or such... in order to raise the ominous specter of a Palin presidency
-McCain will suddenly drop out citing serious health problems leaving the Republicans with only the Palin/Jesus ticket.
...one of these three scenarios will play out before this is all over.
Personally, I think he's going to address the American public and tell them straight out that if they believe Obama to be an Arab; Muslim; terrorist; communist; or Al Quaeda operative... then he (McCain) doesn't want their vote.
The Luke
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Okay folks... it's the last weekend.
If my theory is correct, now is the time for McCain to make a mistuke (or let Palin make one).
Keep watching this space.
The Luke
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it's been a week of mistakes.
The media isn't even piling on anymore. They're focusing on the positive.
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Obama's BARELY winning for one reason.....he's buying the election . He lied about not taking public financing but even though he's outspending McCain 4-1, it's not doing all that well.
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Obama's BARELY winning for one reason.....he's buying the election . He lied about not taking public financing but even though he's outspending McCain 4-1, it's not doing all that well.
They both lied. We have seen the nightly fact-checking - mccain stretches the truth a lot too.
Obama agreed to sit down and discuss public financing with the repub nominee, then yes, he changed his mind and never sat down with mccain. He never agreed to do it - he agreed to sit down and discuss it.
He absolutely flipped on that one.
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Time to bump this thread!
Seems I was right... McCain DID throw the election ("Joe the Plumber" debacle) and his choice of Palin is indeed splitting the party into secular and Evangelical factions, exactly as I predicted.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2012/69_of_gop_voters_say_palin_helped_mccain
64% of GOP voters see Palin as the choice for 2012. Enough said.
The Luke
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Time to bump this thread!
Seems I was right... McCain DID throw the election ("Joe the Plumber" debacle) and his choice of Palin is indeed splitting the party into secular and Evangelical factions, exactly as I predicted.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2012/69_of_gop_voters_say_palin_helped_mccain
64% of GOP voters see Palin as the choice for 2012. Enough said.
The Luke
I don't think McCain did, I think his neocon advisors did. Either that or they saw the real numbers and were looking to dump the blame on Palin so it didn't look like their fail. McCain was set to loose and I'll refer to my post yesterday:
I think it can be safely said that the people didn't want to continue down the path paved by George Bush. In that, we did want a change of direction and McCain did not represent a significant enough move away from Bush. He opposed him in the beggining and the rest was a love fest. McCain was not able to break that perception and that he tried to break it shows we were concerned about changing direction.
When 60 to 78% of the country says we're on the wrong track, they want to change directions. When the percent that thinks we're on the right track is in the teens, we're definitly wanting to change directions :D
http://www.pollingreport.com/right.htm
For your theory to be valid, you'll have to weigh it with only 11% thinking we're going in the right direction.