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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Deicide on October 08, 2008, 04:34:09 PM

Title: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Deicide on October 08, 2008, 04:34:09 PM
Because of the fructose? ???

What are peoples' ideas on this?
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: QuakerOats on October 08, 2008, 04:35:04 PM
eat it before you train you'll be fine, too many vitamins in fruit to not eat it.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 08, 2008, 04:38:32 PM
Eat as much as you like to meet your needs.
As I have said earlier, it does not make a difference at all what you eat as long as your simple requirements are met.

What food you choose means nothing and you will look the same.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: MB_722 on October 08, 2008, 04:39:09 PM
The Evils of Fructose
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose)

Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: QuakerOats on October 08, 2008, 04:39:43 PM
The Evils of Fructose
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose)


::)
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Cleanest Natural on October 08, 2008, 04:41:39 PM
Eat as much as you like to meet your needs.
As I have said earlier, it does not make a difference at all what you eat as long as your simple requirements are met.

What food you choose means nothing and you will look the same.
::)

oh brother
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: nder98 on October 08, 2008, 04:42:08 PM
Eat 2 bananas and 5 units of humalog after you workout and you'll be fine
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on October 08, 2008, 04:51:08 PM
fruits are good
apple
blueberry
peaches
citrus fruits
banananna
sergio oliva recccomend u to eat fruit in your diet i reads in his book section in some books i read ona rms trianing routine he did
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on October 08, 2008, 05:00:19 PM
fruits are very good
apple
bananna
blueberry
peach
citrus

segio oliva mention in chapter of some book to eat lots of fruit to fuel workouts

eat up friend
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Deicide on October 08, 2008, 05:08:48 PM
So fructose cannot be utilised as muscle glycogen? Only starches should be used?
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: QuakerOats on October 08, 2008, 05:09:48 PM
So fructose cannot be utilised as muscle glycogen? Only starches should be used?
you don't honestly believe that do you?
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Deicide on October 08, 2008, 05:12:41 PM
you don't honestly believe that do you?

I am asking a question; I just read the article.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: flexingtonsteele on October 08, 2008, 05:15:09 PM
The Evils of Fructose
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose)



"oh brother" just check out the chics fat flabby "wing like" arms who wrote the article's picture.

id definetely take it with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: jwb on October 08, 2008, 05:40:28 PM
haney used whole fruits in his diets.

albert beckles had a diet back in 81 or so which was loads of fish and small amounts of ripe pineapple for training energy.

Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: onlyme on October 08, 2008, 07:56:22 PM
I love fruit (pies) ;D
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: The_Leafy_Bug on October 08, 2008, 07:57:44 PM
I love fruit (pies) ;D
Hows the diet keith? Did you ever lose that 100 pounds by the Arnold? I've noticed you have been posting alot about food lately.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Necrosis on October 08, 2008, 08:08:43 PM
fructose is mainly stored as liver glycogen, this is a fact. Fructose easily leads to fat gain.

Fruit when liver glycogen levels are low is good, morning, and in a fasting state. Carb cycling incorperates fruits into the diet to remain in a fed state. Fruit late at night or with ample fats is a bad idea.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: onlyme on October 08, 2008, 08:14:33 PM
Hows the diet keith? Did you ever lose that 100 pounds by the Arnold? I've noticed you have been posting alot about food lately.

Cause I haven't been eating shitty for well over a month.  I am craving but hangin in there.  And I gotta tell you something.  I saw your latest pics and you look great now.  I still think you looked like a concentration camp guy before but you are filling out and look real good  I give you props for that.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: The_Leafy_Bug on October 08, 2008, 08:28:49 PM
Cause I haven't been eating shitty for well over a month.  I am craving but hangin in there.  And I gotta tell you something.  I saw your latest pics and you look great now.  I still think you looked like a concentration camp guy before but you are filling out and look real good  I give you props for that.
Thanks man. Hopefully ill be a light heavy next year. Good luck.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Eisenherz on October 08, 2008, 08:36:47 PM
fructose is mainly stored as liver glycogen, this is a fact. Fructose easily leads to fat gain.

Fruit when liver glycogen levels are low is good, morning, and in a fasting state. Carb cycling incorperates fruits into the diet to remain in a fed state. Fruit late at night or with ample fats is a bad idea.

O rly?
Well when I maintain weight I eat about 10+ bananas along with other fruit, allot of it is at night too, with lots of fats, saturated ones too, I dont gain fat, so i disagrees with your theories.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 08, 2008, 08:48:29 PM
There is VERY little Fructose in most fruits.  Do you people even realize that you would never get an abundance of fructose unless you ate Pounds and Pounds and Pounds of fruit.

To find out the effective fructose content of various fruits, see http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

Type in your fruit and you will see for yourself how little fructose accounts for various fruits.

Go ahead and have your apple (9.3) AND a banana (6) AND some blueberries (3.7) AND a peach (4.1) AND some strawberries (3) AND an orange (4.6) AND some cantaloupe (4.5) AND some blackberries (4.3) AND a nectarine (3.1) AND some watermelon (5.1) AND a tomato (1.4).

That would be 49.1 grams. And that's a lot of fruit. More than anyone eats I would guess. And that's assuming the liver holds EXACTLY 50 grams, and that none of it would be burned during the day. And, for that matter, that the liver has absolutely no fructose stored at the start of the day.

See what I'm getting at? It's not worth worrying about. If you're not reaching your goals, I seriously doubt it's because of that apple you had.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 08, 2008, 08:51:24 PM
The Evils of Fructose
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_nutrition_bodybuilding/the_evils_of_fructose)


She's pulling the idea that liver converted fructose to fat goes 'straight to stubborn fat' out of her ass


this:
"When a high fructose diet (about 50-60% of total energy intake) is given to rats, they present symptoms of the Metabolic Syndrome, which is the precursor to full-blown diabetes and heart disease."

is both retarded and irrelvant. who cares what happens to rats fed 60% fructose? a piece of fruit has hardly any Fructose.
her tangent to HFCS is irrelevant as well. the amount of fructose you can get in a normal soda (containing hundreds of calories) or other foods containing HFCS is magnitudes higher than a piece of fruit.

for example, her reference 3. note, 250 grams fructose per day. that's ~35 apples worth. yeah, an apple at breakfast is what's keeping you fat

Who eats 35 apples a day?  Even if you did, you would burn the amount out of the liver in due time.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Necrosis on October 08, 2008, 08:53:02 PM
There is VERY little Fructose in most fruits.  Do you people even realize that you would never get an abundance of fructose unless you ate Pounds and Pounds and Pounds of fruit.

To find out the effective fructose content of various fruits, see http://www.reducetriglycerides.com/d...ugar_print.htm


Go ahead and have your apple (9.3) AND a banana (6) AND some blueberries (3.7) AND a peach (4.1) AND some strawberries (3) AND an orange (4.6) AND some cantaloupe (4.5) AND some blackberries (4.3) AND a nectarine (3.1) AND some watermelon (5.1) AND a tomato (1.4).

That would be 49.1 grams. And that's a lot of fruit. More than anyone eats I would guess. And that's assuming the liver holds EXACTLY 50 grams, and that none of it would be burned during the day. And, for that matter, that the liver has absolutely no fructose stored at the start of the day.

See what I'm getting at? It's not worth worrying about. If you're not reaching your goals, I seriously doubt it's because of that apple you had.

i agree that the benefits of fruit far outweigh the negative. I think the best diet for metabolic health and other health markers is a vlcd, i have read enough research lately to move me from a moderate to very low carbohydrate diet. I'm going to bed but ill respond to this post tom specifically about fructose and liver glycogen storage.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 08, 2008, 08:54:55 PM
i agree that the benefits of fruit far outweigh the negative. I think the best diet for metabolic health and other health markers is a vlcd, i have read enough research lately to move me from a moderate to very low carbohydrate diet. I'm going to bed but ill respond to this post tom specifically about fructose and liver glycogen storage.
I eat a ton of Carbs from all sources. Sugary desserts, Breads, Ice Cream....From anywhere.  Number one thing in my diet and I am willing to bet I am leaner than you. :)
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 08, 2008, 08:55:18 PM
IT'S HOW MUCH YOU EAT NOT WHAT YOU EAT



Hope this helps all you obese getbiggers
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 08, 2008, 08:55:57 PM
I eat 700 grams of carbs everyday
on top of my fat and protein intake
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 08, 2008, 08:56:44 PM
I eat 700 grams of carbs everyday
on top of my fat and protein intake
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: warrior_code on October 08, 2008, 08:56:49 PM
Don't listen to those who say fruits/vegetables are a food group to avoid.  You are missing out on antioxidants, phytochemicals and vitamins when you  cut back on them(not to mention the potential compounds we have not yet discovered that could be beneficial to one's health which are highly likely to be abundant in fruits/vegetables).  In fact, I believe the Canadian food guide recently changed around a bit and made fruits/vegetables the food group we should consume most of.  Before it used to be Grain products.  If you showed that "T-nation" article to any seasoned expert in nutrition/food science, they would likely think of it as a joke.  
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 08, 2008, 08:58:06 PM
I eat a ton of Carbs from all sources. Sugary desserts, Breads, Ice Cream....From anywhere.  Number one thing in my diet and I am willing to bet I am leaner than you. :)
Bro I just bought so much junk food, chocolate, icecream, chips, pudding, cookies lots of cookies
these idiots think that the high GI of a banana is gonna make them fat  ::)
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 08, 2008, 09:04:47 PM
I eat a ton of Carbs from all sources. Sugary desserts, Breads, Ice Cream....From anywhere.  Number one thing in my diet and I am willing to bet I am leaner than you. :)
Adonis how do you feel about the fact that people say being so low in bodyfat requires you to constantly diet?
for example you would need to diet  to STAY at 5% bodyfat than 11% bodyfat
is this true?
would the body actually slow its metabolism down or somehow want to get fat?
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Jeffro on October 08, 2008, 09:11:29 PM
fruits are good
apple
blueberry
peaches
citrus fruits
banananna
sergio oliva recccomend u to eat fruit in your diet i reads in his book section in some books i read ona rms trianing routine he did

fruits are very good
apple
bananna
blueberry
peach
citrus

segio oliva mention in chapter of some book to eat lots of fruit to fuel workouts

eat up friend
Brutal double post.

Did you forget to switch to your other gimmick again, twink?
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: TacoBell on October 08, 2008, 10:03:04 PM
Bro I just bought so much junk food, chocolate, icecream, chips, pudding, cookies lots of cookies
these idiots think that the high GI of a banana is gonna make them fat  ::)

problem is, u look terrible.  people would wonder 'how you get away with it' , except theres nothing impressive about you.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 08, 2008, 10:10:31 PM
Adonis how do you feel about the fact that people say being so low in bodyfat requires you to constantly diet?
for example you would need to diet  to STAY at 5% bodyfat than 11% bodyfat
is this true?
would the body actually slow its metabolism down or somehow want to get fat?
I don`t think one has to "diet" to stay low bodyfat at all.

For instance, if Bodybuilder is currently at 5 percent bodyfat and ate 2000 calories a day to get there, he can continue to eat 2000 calories just fine.  Also, he can eat 4000 or what have you on some days and then eat 2000 for a few days and repeat.  He can even raise his calories from 2000 to whatever amount causes him to stay just below weight gain.

So no, I do not agree that one has to "diet" constantly.  I don`t like the prepositional phrase "to diet" as I believe it makes little to no sense.  There is no such thing as "to diet".
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: wavelength on October 08, 2008, 11:22:00 PM
I don`t think one has to "diet" to stay low bodyfat at all.

For instance, if Bodybuilder is currently at 5 percent bodyfat and ate 2000 calories a day to get there, he can continue to eat 2000 calories just fine. Also, he can eat 4000 or what have you on some days and then eat 2000 for a few days and repeat.  He can even raise his calories from 2000 to whatever amount causes him to stay just below weight gain.

So no, I do not agree that one has to "diet" constantly.  I don`t like the prepositional phrase "to diet" as I believe it makes little to no sense.  There is no such thing as "to diet".

Exactly my experience. I'm 100% comfortable on my current diet. I actually have to force myself to eat more on my pig out days. :)
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Moen on October 09, 2008, 12:33:39 AM
True adonis owning the shit out of all the so called experts. In fact it's not even funny anymore that he appears to be the first guy to actually look up how much of the carb content of fruit is fructose
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Tapeworm on October 09, 2008, 01:29:56 AM
True adonis owning the shit out of all the so called experts. In fact it's not even funny anymore that he appears to be the first guy to actually look up how much of the carb content of fruit is fructose

Yes.  In fact, he looked it up even before the guys who got the data, made it into a little chart, and posted it on the nutritional database that TA googled.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: LatsMcGee on October 09, 2008, 02:41:10 AM
Brutal double post.

Did you forget to switch to your other gimmick again, twink?


He's too busy dining on anus to be bothered with those sort of details.  He is a piece of shit.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Deicide on October 09, 2008, 03:26:29 AM
Exactly my experience. I'm 100% comfortable on my current diet. I actually have to force myself to eat more on my pig out days. :)

Not my experience. I even have trouble with my current diet dropping weight.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Get Rowdy on October 09, 2008, 03:31:01 AM
Not my experience. I even have trouble with my current diet dropping weight.

Quit complaining.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Moen on October 09, 2008, 03:35:12 AM
Yes.  In fact, he looked it up even before the guys who got the data, made it into a little chart, and posted it on the nutritional database that TA googled.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

You knew what I meant dickhead  ;D
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Cleanest Natural on October 09, 2008, 03:35:43 AM
I don`t think one has to "diet" to stay low bodyfat at all.

For instance, if Bodybuilder is currently at 5 percent bodyfat and ate 2000 calories a day to get there, he can continue to eat 2000 calories just fine.  Also, he can eat 4000 or what have you on some days and then eat 2000 for a few days and repeat.  He can even raise his calories from 2000 to whatever amount causes him to stay just below weight gain.

So no, I do not agree that one has to "diet" constantly.  I don`t like the prepositional phrase "to diet" as I believe it makes little to no sense.  There is no such thing as "to diet".
is this an exercise in stupidity ? ??
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 03:50:52 AM
So fructose cannot be utilised as muscle glycogen? Only starches should be used?
its true.  :) i wouldnt lie to you nugga

necrosis aka usmokepole could explain it for you all intelligently and precisely.. i however cannot, but i can tel you that muscle cells are inicapable of utillizing fuctose as a source of glycogen and/or energy while liver cells can use both fructose and glucose


aahhh i see after posting this necrosis has already validated this..  my bad..


fruits are great, i love them... but dont 'carb load' with them...

Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: d0nny2600 on October 09, 2008, 03:58:16 AM
its true.  :) i wouldnt lie to you nugga

necrosis aka usmokepole could explain it for you all intelligently and precisely.. i however cannot, but i can tel you that muscle cells are inicapable of utillizing fuctose as a source of glycogen and/or energy while liver cells can use both fructose and glucose


aahhh i see after posting this necrosis has already validated this..  my bad..


fruits are great, i love them... but dont 'carb load' with them...


Exactly. Oatmeal with Blueberries is fantastic for breakfast.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: LatsMcGee on October 09, 2008, 04:00:09 AM
Natural Wonder is a fruit as well as a piece of shit.  He enjoys gagging on bananas and juggling kiwis.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: nzmusclemonster on October 09, 2008, 04:01:22 AM
SIMPLE CARBS GIVES A SHIT

PEOPLE HE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT

722) Monster_Triceps

862) Meso_z

866) webcke

884) Stark

1017) Banner

1023) Monster81

1054) Debussey DF
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 09, 2008, 04:06:26 AM
Because of the fructose? ???

What are peoples' ideas on this?

no you would have to eat huge amounts of fruit to make it into a problem.

Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Deicide on October 09, 2008, 04:14:26 AM
Oatmeal...ok.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 09, 2008, 04:15:18 AM
dont worry about eating fruits, worry about consuming too much refined sugar (from sodas, cookies etc)
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: wavelength on October 09, 2008, 04:27:36 AM
Not my experience. I even have trouble with my current diet dropping weight.

Maybe you have trouble because of your current diet. ;D
But people are different, no doubt about that.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Deicide on October 09, 2008, 04:31:18 AM
Maybe you have trouble because of your current diet. ;D
But people are different, no doubt about that.

The only thing that has ever worked very well for me is no carb, but it very, very difficult to keep that going because even protein powder has some carbs.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 09, 2008, 04:39:33 AM
The only thing that has ever worked very well for me is no carb, but it very, very difficult to keep that going because even protein powder has some carbs.

there is no reason to go zero carbs. and besides you dont have to go zero carbs to achieve ketosis if thats your goal.

keep some carbs in your fatloss diet to give you energy to workout etc.

main thing is : caloric deficit and lift as heavy as you can to keep your hard earned muscle
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Tapeworm on October 09, 2008, 04:56:47 AM
The only thing that has ever worked very well for me is no carb, but it very, very difficult to keep that going because even protein powder has some carbs.

You may be mistaking water loss for fat loss.  Fat is calorie rich, as you know.  A debt of 3500 cals would be required, in a perfect world where every single cal under maintenance results in fat loss only, to lose just 1 lb.  In reality, you're doing well to lose 1/2 lb per week.  With the amount of water you hold varying, fat loss might not even register on the scale for a couple months, and you won't really see it in the mirror until you're around 13%.  In fact, you'll probably look even worse at 15% than at near 20% as your body lets go of the fat everywhere but your midsection.  I think a lot of guys give up because they can't stand to see themselves shrinking.  They figure they'll have the same size arms, legs, chest, etc, but with abs, and it's a rude awakening when their 18" arms drop to 17, 16, 15.5...  At any rate, there's no reason a moderate amount of low GI carbs will do you much harm.  Worrying about the carbs in protein powder is just crazy.

Fwiw, I don't use any shakes or liquid nutrition when dieting.  High volume calorie sparse foods will keep you absolutely stuffed even in a caloric deficit.  I still have cravings for the first week or so, but that's different than being hungry.  Carb intake should be moderated and protein increased imo.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 09, 2008, 06:01:00 AM
I don`t think one has to "diet" to stay low bodyfat at all.

For instance, if Bodybuilder is currently at 5 percent bodyfat and ate 2000 calories a day to get there, he can continue to eat 2000 calories just fine.  Also, he can eat 4000 or what have you on some days and then eat 2000 for a few days and repeat.  He can even raise his calories from 2000 to whatever amount causes him to stay just below weight gain.

So no, I do not agree that one has to "diet" constantly.  I don`t like the prepositional phrase "to diet" as I believe it makes little to no sense.  There is no such thing as "to diet".
By "to diet" I mean eat fewer calories than needed to maintain current weight, that's how I "diet" anyways  ;D
just cuttin calories to 3000 and NOT "eating clean  ::)"
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 07:26:11 AM
The only thing that has ever worked very well for me is no carb, but it very, very difficult to keep that going because even protein powder has some carbs.
if your dieting you shouldnt have but MAYBE one protein shake per day... and you could get an isolate with zero carbs too
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Galvatron on October 09, 2008, 07:29:32 AM
if your dieting you shouldnt have but MAYBE one protein shake per day... and you could get an isolate with zero carbs too

you can have as many protein shakes as you want, but they dont fill you up the same way as regular food does, thus they make dieting harder.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: suckmymuscle on October 09, 2008, 08:24:06 AM
Because of the fructose? ???

What are peoples' ideas on this?

  Compared to what? To ice cream and pizza it is a fantastic source of carbs, because it comes with tons of fiber, phtochemicals, vitamins and minerals. And with the possible exception of grapes, fruits won't cause the huge insulin spike that ice cream and pizza will because, even though fruit is loaded with glucose, it comes with fiber which slows absorption considerably thus causing a much lower insulin spike than simple sugars in processed foods and fructose itself has a very low GI.

  As for fructose, there is some debate regarding increased glycation that comes from eating foods rich in it. Frcutose boosts glycation 10 times more than glucose. However, glycation is more dependant on protein intake than actual simple sugar consumption, so ingesting tons of frcutose might only be bad if you also eat lots of protein. The real problem of fruits comes from glucose and not fructose, but this is only a problem if you want to get really, really ripped. Even though the fiber in fruit decreases a lot the insulin spike caused by the glucose contained in it, it still will cause a slightly higher spike in insulin than something like cream of rye. While you can get single-digit bodyfat whilst eating lots of fruit, you might not be able to get to 3% bodyfat. Again, this should only be relevant for bodybuilders preparing for contests. so unless you are dieting for a contest, eat as much fruit as you want. :)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

P.S: This thread should be at the nutrition board.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: suckmymuscle on October 09, 2008, 08:27:49 AM
Eat as much as you like to meet your needs.


  This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You can get all your vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids by eating at McDonald's ano nowhere else and I hardly think you'll be healthy eating nothing but their menu every day.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 09, 2008, 08:30:51 AM
 As for fructose, there is some debate regarding increased glycation that comes from eating foods rich in it. Frcutose boosts glycation 10 times more than glucose. However, glycation is more dependant on protein intake than actual simple sugar consumption, so ingesting tons of frcutose might only be bad if you also eat lots of protein. The real problem of fruits comes from glucose and not fructose, but this is only a problem if you want to get really, really ripped. Even though the fiber in fruit decreases a lot the insulin spike caused by the glucose contained in it, it still will cause a slightly higher spike in insulin than something like cream of rye. While you can get single-digit bodyfat whilst eating lots of fruit, you might not be able to get to 3% bodyfat. Again, this should only be relevant for bodybuilders preparing for contests. so unless you are dieting for a contest, eat as much fruit as you want. :)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

P.S: This thread should be at the nutrition board.

It's not glycation that is the reason for the fructose fear. It's the research on fructose and high fructose corn syrup and obesity. Basically fructose is metabolized differently than glucose for example and makes you fatter when consumed to excess.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: suckmymuscle on October 09, 2008, 08:43:37 AM
It's not glycation that is the reason for the fructose fear. It's the research on fructose and high fructose corn syrup and obesity. Basically fructose is metabolized differently than glucose for example and makes you fatter when consumed to excess.

  Well, the only thing about fructose that might be reason for some concern is the potential for increased glycation since that leads to artherosclerosis, gout, diabetes melitus and even increased cross-linking of collagen in the skin which causes wrinkles. However, again, glycation seems to be more dependent on protein intake then on simple sugar intake, including fructose, and most of the simple sugar in fruit is glucose anyway which is the simple sugar that increases glycation the least so it shouldn't matter. And fruit is loaded with phytochemicals that have health benefits.

  As for fructose making you fat, that is laughable. Frcutose has an extremely low GI and what makes you fat are ultimately calories, meaning that even if you ate tons of sugar with high GI you would still not gain fat if you kept your caloric ingestion at or beneath your metabolic needs. I would worry far more about the glucose in fruit, which has a GI of 100, then poor old fructose. Again, the fiber in fruit lowers the GI a lot, but the GI of most fruits is still higher than that of some unprocessed cereals like cream of rye. But again, this should only be relevant if you want to get really, really ripped(unhealthy). If you want to be slim with single-digit bodyfat - but not something like 3% - and very healthy, then you can eat as much fruit as you want.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 10:46:03 AM
you can have as many protein shakes as you want, but they dont fill you up the same way as regular food does, thus they make dieting harder.

theres also a complete lack of dietary thermogensis associated with protein shakes, while meat proteins have a huge thermic effect. resulting in a great caloric defecit by utlizing more meat protein sources over utilizing the same amount of protein but from a whey source. as well as slower digestion of meat sources, which will be better for staying anti-catabolic.. (the goal of dieting is to burn as much fat as possible while remaining anti-catabolic)
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Necrosis on October 09, 2008, 10:46:39 AM
  Compared to what? To ice cream and pizza it is a fantastic source of carbs, because it comes with tons of fiber, phtochemicals, vitamins and minerals. And with the possible exception of grapes, fruits won't cause the huge insulin spike that ice cream and pizza will because, even though fruit is loaded with glucose, it comes with fiber which slows absorption considerably thus causing a much lower insulin spike than simple sugars in processed foods and fructose itself has a very low GI.

  As for fructose, there is some debate regarding increased glycation that comes from eating foods rich in it. Frcutose boosts glycation 10 times more than glucose. However, glycation is more dependant on protein intake than actual simple sugar consumption, so ingesting tons of frcutose might only be bad if you also eat lots of protein. The real problem of fruits comes from glucose and not fructose, but this is only a problem if you want to get really, really ripped. Even though the fiber in fruit decreases a lot the insulin spike caused by the glucose contained in it, it still will cause a slightly higher spike in insulin than something like cream of rye. While you can get single-digit bodyfat whilst eating lots of fruit, you might not be able to get to 3% bodyfat. Again, this should only be relevant for bodybuilders preparing for contests. so unless you are dieting for a contest, eat as much fruit as you want. :)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

P.S: This thread should be at the nutrition board.

fructose is non insuligenic per se
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 10:47:49 AM
 
  As for fructose making you fat, that is laughable. Frcutose has an extremely low GI and what makes you fat are ultimately calories, meaning that even if you ate tons of sugar with high GI you would still not gain fat if you kept your caloric ingestion at or beneath your metabolic needs.



dude anybody who has done any kind of researching on anything related to bodybuilding always sees right through your posts. just stop it.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: HTexan on October 09, 2008, 10:48:33 AM
pytochemicals
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Rami on October 09, 2008, 10:52:05 AM
I just replaced all my carbsources with bananas only since some days ago, I don't think it was that optimal. Potato and rice cakes filled my muscles better.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Necrosis on October 09, 2008, 10:54:13 AM
alot of studies are indicating that it is the presence of insulin which inhibits lipolysis, gary taubes is the biggest proponent of this idea.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 10:59:45 AM
alot of studies are indicating that it is the presence of insulin which inhibits lipolysis, gary taubes is the biggest proponent of this idea.
i thought that was established as fact quite a while ago, ? no?
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: mazrim on October 09, 2008, 11:07:19 AM
while meat proteins have a huge thermic effect. resulting in a great caloric defecit
I wouldn't exactly call it "huge".
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 11:10:43 AM
I wouldn't exactly call it "huge".
30-40% of proteins caloric worth .. pretty big.. lets say your getting 400g protein per day.. 400g X 4cals per g = 1600 cals from protein each day... with shakes you get no added thermogensis but with meat proteins youll get 480-640 vals extra thermogensis per day... thats about 500 cal defecit difference between using meats only verse shakes only.. kinda significant when most diets only create a 300-500 defecit per day..
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: wood on October 09, 2008, 12:19:27 PM
I've cut down several times using varied means and my most recent was the most effective, it incorporated blueberries or grapefruits twice a day among other details.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Royalty on October 09, 2008, 12:38:28 PM
Fructose doesnt get stored as muscle glycogen.....but only as liver glycogen. So dont over do it with fructose. Some is fructose is good, but focus more on brown rice, oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, and potatoes for muscle glycogen replenishment
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Meso_z on October 09, 2008, 01:20:08 PM
just EAT your fruit.  ::)

Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Necrosis on October 09, 2008, 01:54:40 PM
i thought that was established as fact quite a while ago, ? no?

not really, because what he is suggesting is that a low carbohydrate diet and high carb diet with the same amount of calories will have different effects on body comp. In the sense you are thinking of it in yes you are right.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Galvatron on October 09, 2008, 02:58:54 PM
theres also a complete lack of dietary thermogensis associated with protein shakes, while meat proteins have a huge thermic effect. resulting in a great caloric defecit by utlizing more meat protein sources over utilizing the same amount of protein but from a whey source. as well as slower digestion of meat sources, which will be better for staying anti-catabolic.. (the goal of dieting is to burn as much fat as possible while remaining anti-catabolic)

the first part isnt true, and it doesnt have any significant effect.

as for the digestion, it depends on what kind of protein shakes you use  ;)

AND whey protein can be made into 'slow protein' (or slower atleast) by eating carbs such as oatmeal with the whey protein.

personally i prefer eating real food (specially when dieting) fills me up alot better than protein shakes.
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Galvatron on October 09, 2008, 03:02:16 PM
Fructose doesnt get stored as muscle glycogen.....but only as liver glycogen. So dont over do it with fructose. Some is fructose is good, but focus more on brown rice, oatmeal, whole wheat pasta, and potatoes for muscle glycogen replenishment

thats not the question. the main thing is that fruit will be no problem in regards to fructose unless you eat insane amounts of fruit.

the fructose danger comes from ingesting too much refined suger. (via sodas, cookies etc)
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 03:41:10 PM
and it doesnt have any significant effect.

look it up lazy, learn to teach yourself.. dont be a fool
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 09, 2008, 03:43:42 PM
look it up lazy, learn to teach yourself.. dont be a fool

lol is that you candi? how was the meltdown?  ;D

galvatron obviously knows what he talks about.

you dont.

Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 03:46:58 PM
Quote from: slaveboy1980
Send me a picture of your cock you stud !

Get out of my p.m. inbox  :-X
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 09, 2008, 03:52:47 PM
Get out of my p.m. inbox  :-X

thanks for the pic candi. hope you dont mind me posting the pic of your old fellow.

(http://www.marok.org/Arte/Mix/micropenis.jpg)

 :D
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: tbombz on October 09, 2008, 03:54:14 PM
nobody wanted to see a picture of your 'nob' ..   :-\
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: QuakerOats on October 09, 2008, 03:56:20 PM
thanks for the pic candi. hope you dont mind me posting the pic of your old fellow.

(http://www.marok.org/Arte/Mix/micropenis.jpg)

 :D
hahahahhaa, you have shit like that saved to your computer? what a fagg. :-X
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: slaveboy1980 on October 09, 2008, 04:01:01 PM
hahahahhaa, you have shit like that saved to your computer? what a fagg. :-X

dont be jealous dave, im sure candi will send you a pic of his micropenis too if you ask nicely. 
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 09, 2008, 06:23:18 PM
dont be jealous dave, im sure candi will send you a pic of his micropenis too if you ask nicely. 
holy shit a 2 inch penis  ;D
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Jeffro on October 09, 2008, 06:24:43 PM
holy shit a 2 inch penis  ;D
I would probably just kill myself... :-X
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 09, 2008, 07:15:02 PM
I would probably just kill myself... :-X
hahahahahahahhahahahahahahah
Imagine what a girl might say when she sees that
looking at that picture I can see he is fat and ugly....probably a virgin  ;D
LMAO
how the hell would you have sex with a penis that small?AHAHHAHAHHA
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: HTexan on October 09, 2008, 07:20:40 PM
poor guy :(
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: Jeffro on October 09, 2008, 07:24:44 PM
It's funny how he trims it up like he's actually gonna use it. ::)

You cant even feel like a man with that little thing, not being able to please a woman. :-\ 

Shit, he probably cant even get past the lips. :-X
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: ASJChaotic on October 09, 2008, 07:48:12 PM
It's funny how he trims it up like he's actually gonna use it. ::)

You cant even feel like a man with that little thing, not being able to please a woman. :-\ 

Shit, he probably cant even get past the lips.  :-X
;D
he can't even get in LMFAO
his life must suck
Title: Re: Is fruit a bad source of carbs?
Post by: flexingtonsteele on October 09, 2008, 09:05:59 PM
It's not glycation that is the reason for the fructose fear. It's the research on fructose and high fructose corn syrup and obesity. Basically fructose is metabolized differently than glucose for example and makes you fatter when consumed to excess.

very true, the most simplistic and best post so far on this thread :)