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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Monster_Everything on October 09, 2008, 12:52:52 PM
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is this what they mean by 'trickle down' ???
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is this what they mean by 'trickle down' ???
You sir are an idiot if you think it is just the Republican's fault. There are a lot of Democrats that are to blame starting with Pelosi, Reid, Frank and Dodd.
They all got kickbacks from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
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is this what they mean by 'trickle down' ???
NO...THIS IS WHAT IS MEANT BY FALL DOWN ECONOMICS...THANK YOU REPUGNANTCANS....
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can you guys give me some concrete proof, point a finger and say "this republican(s) caused this, and here's why"?
or are you just talking out of your ass?
if you want me to point a finger at a democrat that caused this, i can point a finger and say "this is why", but you have to go first.
if you can't come up with anything, you have to post "i eat dick and i talk out of my ass", ok?
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can you guys give me some concrete proof, point a finger and say "this republican(s) caused this, and here's why"?
or are you just talking out of your ass?
if you want me to point a finger at a democrat that caused this, i can point a finger and say "this is why", but you have to go first.
if you can't come up with anything, you have to post "i eat dick and i talk out of my ass", ok?
There isn't one side to blame in this. It's because they passed the bail out bill which both sides agreed on. Just be prepared cause it's going to get worse, the value of the dollar is going to drop like a bag of bricks and inflation will shoot through the roof.
I'd be liquidating whatever assets I had left and get ready for a long shitty ride down the toilet. It's going to be 5-7 years before we pull out of this one.
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There isn't one side to blame in this. It's because they passed the bail out bill which both sides agreed on. Just be prepared cause it's going to get worse, the value of the dollar is going to drop like a bag of bricks and inflation will shoot through the roof.
I'd be liquidating whatever assets I had left and get ready for a long shitty ride down the toilet. It's going to be 5-7 years before we pull out of this one.
some psychos would say to buy buy buy now?
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some psychos would say to buy buy buy now?
It's only going to get worse so now would not be a great time to buy stocks.
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It's only going to get worse so now would not be a great time to buy stocks.
what are you basing this on?
i'm always willing to listen.
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what are you basing this on?
i'm always willing to listen.
Things are following some of the same trends of the '87 crash with some markets being put on limited trading in order to avoid further fall out (i.e. Japan, Russia and we'll see what happens with ours soon). We haven't gotten to that point yet (we may avoid it depending on how things are handled). My expectations, and they are shared by traders and other investors I know, is that it's going to be declining further before we start to see it flatten out. There are worldwide implications of what happens to our market, this is a very critical time not just for us, but the entire world and it's going to take several years, minimum, for us to bounce back from this. It's serious shit and people need to realize just how much of an impact of what's going on is going to effect them.
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There are worldwide implications of what happens to our market, this is a very critical time not just for us, but the entire world and it's going to take several years, minimum, for us to bounce back from this. It's serious shit and people need to realize just how much of an impact of what's going on is going to effect them.
You got this right. The US financial market is very poorly regulated. Now it's too late. While many executive are getting 10's or 100's of millions of dollars we will suffer. Other markets are talking about U.S. exposure like it's a disease.
The fallout is huge. The unemployment numbers are growing quickly, and
yes, inflation will burst from all this money creation. It just means we'll really suffer from a lowered standard of living. In the end Joe taxpayer is paying for this mess. The dow is down another near 700 points today as hedge funds liquidate to make margin payments.
At least most here aren't retirees who have just watched their portfolios and house values hit the toilet. They are truly f**ked.
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is this what they mean by 'trickle down' ???
maybe republicans don't care about the econonmy, stud.
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Things are following some of the same trends of the '87 crash with some markets being put on limited trading in order to avoid further fall out (i.e. Japan, Russia and we'll see what happens with ours soon). We haven't gotten to that point yet (we may avoid it depending on how things are handled). My expectations, and they are shared by traders and other investors I know, is that it's going to be declining further before we start to see it flatten out. There are worldwide implications of what happens to our market, this is a very critical time not just for us, but the entire world and it's going to take several years, minimum, for us to bounce back from this. It's serious shit and people need to realize just how much of an impact of what's going on is going to effect them.
what's your call on a bottom?
jesus, just how much did these fucking hedge funds hold? well, i'm a buyer now. i'm not a trillionaire, but i have a few hundred to spare.
i'm buying pfizer at the open tomorrow (might give it an hour or so, at this rate, i could save 5% lol).
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"It's the republicans fault" the mating call of the bi-polar left. "It's all their fault, not ours".
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i'd blame the 1995 Community Reinvestment Act which bill clinton signed and made into law. it was the affirmative action of mortgage lending that opened the floodgates for the ninja loans - ninja = no income no job no asset loans.
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what's your call on a bottom?
jesus, just how much did these fucking hedge funds hold? well, i'm a buyer now. i'm not a trillionaire, but i have a few hundred to spare.
i'm buying pfizer at the open tomorrow (might give it an hour or so, at this rate, i could save 5% lol).
That's the thing, no one really knows where the bottoms is going to be. We're going to into a huge consumer recession one much like the 1981-1982 one, it's very similar to that so anyone saying they know what's going to happen, really doesn't. Your guess is as good as anyones on Wall Streets is. We could very well possibly go into a very large deflation cycle, which asset deflation has already started, goods and services will be next and if that happens, it's going to be VERY hard to turn around from that, that's what the Fed really fears because it will take years to recover from that. This hasn't happened in any of our lifetimes, last time it did was in the 1930's and the only reason we got out of it was WWII.
Again, this is happening world wide, housing debacles in England, Spain, Ireland is in trouble too. So just be prepared for very rough times ahead, that's really all that can be said.
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That's the thing, no one really knows where the bottoms is going to be. We're going to into a huge consumer recession one much like the 1981-1982 one, it's very similar to that so anyone saying they know what's going to happen, really doesn't. Your guess is as good as anyones on Wall Streets is. We could very well possibly go into a very large deflation cycle, which asset deflation has already started, goods and services will be next and if that happens, it's going to be VERY hard to turn around from that, that's what the Fed really fears because it will take years to recover from that. This hasn't happened in any of our lifetimes, last time it did was in the 1930's and the only reason we got out of it was WWII.
Again, this is happening world wide, housing debacles in England, Spain, Ireland is in trouble too. So just be prepared for very rough times ahead, that's really all that can be said.
I agree with most of this post except the deflation part. With all the money creation going on (go printing presses go) we are headed for stagflation. We're devaluing the currency. Times will be tough.
I used to volunteer at old age homes as a teenager and spoke with many people who lost their jobs, and homes in the depression. We are in for it.
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i just don't see how the entire world can be in a "global recession". EVERYONE is getting nailed. maybe because it is indeed "global" now, i.e. all our funds are tied together in one way or another.
what is the true answer? scratch everything, start from zero?
i realize that the bank leveraging and derivatives are to blame, but our entire economy is based on this. i find it hard to believe that the 5% of mortgage defaulters caused all this.
do we turn mortgages to liabilities instead of assets on banks statements? do we add a clause in executive's contracts promising jail time?
:-\
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as a side note, what i find mind boggling is that there is 7 TRILLION in cash on the sidelines!!!
imagine if that money was sunk into the stock market at once! instant bull and then some market, right?
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You sir are an idiot if you think it is just the Republican's fault. There are a lot of Democrats that are to blame starting with Pelosi, Reid, Frank and Dodd.
They all got kickbacks from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
EXACTLY...watch this:
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I agree with most of this post except the deflation part. With all the money creation going on (go printing presses go) we are headed for stagflation. We're devaluing the currency. Times will be tough.
I used to volunteer at old age homes as a teenager and spoke with many people who lost their jobs, and homes in the depression. We are in for it.
Well the devaluing of currency directly relates to deflation of assets, goods and services. The prices of assets are falling already and when goods and services follows (deflation) is when it's going to really hit the shitter.
This is really hitting older people especially those that are about to retire and have a lot of money in their Roth IRA's. If you are young however, investment wise, it's going to be a ripe time to jump in. I wouldn't invest in stocks, but mutual funds such as some as the Vanguard mutuals are a great safe bet.
Power Rod: Our economy drives the world economy, we are the number 1 consumer market in the entire world. When our market suffers EVERYONE in the world suffers.
As far as starting from zero, that would be the worst case scenario. With the rate at which the DOW is dropping that could very well happen , but in my mind it's highly unlikely. The DOW is at the lowest point in 5 years after todays drop, 5 years people, and it's not going to be getting better any time soon.
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HHHHMMMMM. so the democrats under pelosi have nothing to do with it?.. they are in charge arent they?..
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Foolish statement. It rained all day in Miami, too. Thanks to the republicans.
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I had a floater in the toilet today and a couple of little sinkers.
It's the Republicans fault.
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I lost about 10k today on my 401k
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i'd blame the 1995 Community Reinvestment Act which bill clinton signed and made into law. it was the affirmative action of mortgage lending that opened the floodgates for the ninja loans - ninja = no income no job no asset loans.
It was congresses' fault. First, congress asked Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy up as many mortgages as possible from commercial banks like WaMu and Citigroup.. Loans like minority program loans, sub-primes and other shit. Commercial banks knew they could get a certain of mortgages off their books b/c Fannie and Freddie would buy them, so they kept lending and lending. Once Fannie and Freddie faced some defaults, the investment banks took their place and started buying the mortgages only to securitize them by issusing securities backed by those very shitty loans.
Bush pushed congress the idea of increased lending because it was his ideal that every American family should be able to have a home. It was a strong topic of his back in 2003-4.
But the biggest blame lies with the banks, credit agencies and ultimately the PEOPLE. Banks shouldn't have lent out to trailer trash and 'minorities'(blacks and hispanics) without credit and employment checks. Credit agencies like Moodys shouldn't have given out AAA ratings to companies holding massives amounts of mortgages as avaliable for sale securities. And people shouldn't have taken out huge loans they couldn't make payments on.
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Greenspan probably deserves most of the blame. But you can't really blame people for not keeping up with payments, and here is why. If you bought a house with any kind of mortgage three years ago for $400k, and got it appraised today and saw the value at $350k and falling, would you actually want to keep up with paying it given that it is now worth much less than you bought it for? That's basically the equivalent of giving up a year's salary (i.e., work for a year for basically nothing) just to own a home that isn't worth what you originally agreed to pay. And that's not even considering interest and inflation. Franklly, even given that your credit score would take a beating, for a lot of people it is simply idiotic to actually keep up with the payments knowing that at best you probably will NEVER break even on the thing after considering inflation and interest. It might be irresponsible, but it's also a smart move to let it foreclose and get a few months of free living in it.
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But the biggest blame lies with the banks, credit agencies and ultimately the PEOPLE. Banks shouldn't have lent out to trailer trash and 'minorities'(blacks and hispanics) without credit and employment checks. Credit agencies like Moodys shouldn't have given out AAA ratings to companies holding massives amounts of mortgages as avaliable for sale securities. And people shouldn't have taken out huge loans they couldn't make payments on.
This was a HUGE part of it as well, and just like to point that out again. The politicians are hesitant to point the finger at the people, and for good reason, but they played a huge part in it. There were a ton of loans given to people who just 'stated' their income, basically showed no paper proof of what their income was, just said it to the bank and they signed the loan. People like that and also the ones who took mortgages for $2900.00 a month fully knowing they only bring home $2700 a month were also a big part of why we're where we're at now. That couple with all of the lenders and total lack of government oversight has put us down the shitter.
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Isn't Barney Frank a Democrat? Everytime there was a meeting regarding Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac and deregulation of the banking system, Barney the fag was saying that there was nothing wrong. Everything was just fine according to him and his committee. It is a fact that only McCain called attention to it but everyone else thought he was wrong. the deregulation of the system occurred during Clinton's presidency and it has now come to fruition.
In the end, Republicans and Democrats, along with the greedy banks/investment houses are all to blame.
I think I am moving to Russia.
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Greenspan probably deserves most of the blame. But you can't really blame people for not keeping up with payments, and here is why. If you bought a house with any kind of mortgage three years ago for $400k, and got it appraised today and saw the value at $350k and falling, would you actually want to keep up with paying it given that it is now worth much less than you bought it for? That's basically the equivalent of giving up a year's salary (i.e., work for a year for basically nothing) just to own a home that isn't worth what you originally agreed to pay. And that's not even considering interest and inflation. Franklly, even given that your credit score would take a beating, for a lot of people it is simply idiotic to actually keep up with the payments knowing that at best you probably will NEVER break even on the thing after considering inflation and interest. It might be irresponsible, but it's also a smart move to let it foreclose and get a few months of free living in it.
Surely this kind of thinking is what got the US into trouble in the first place.
Your house is your home, it is not a credit instrument. Of course when you first buy a house, you can go into a negative equity situation. Over time, inflation reduces the value of your loan in real terms and this issue is resolved. Ask someone that brought a house 15 years ago and never re-mortgaged how much equity they have. Obviously people that don't re-mortgage don't see their home as a credit instrument.
I have plenty of friends in the US that kept on 'taking equity out of their home' to drive flash cars, get their huge LCD screens etc etc. Now they are in negative equity & you think they should just bail out & hand back the car, LCD, the new kitchen. the foreign holiday and the house ? Even those on high salaries are paying $1000's a month to pay off these loans. Fuck that.
It is not madness to continue paying for your house if it's worth $350K but you owe $400K. You still need somewhere to live and the prices will move up. It is irresponsible to just bail out. It is a symptom of wanting an immediate solution as opposed to buckling down and toughing it out for a while.
Not saving money to buy stuff is being financially immature. When you borrow - you end up paying over the odds for what you buy, the only difference is you don't have to be patient. If you have patience & can save to buy stuff you will be much better off.
All this ‘gotta have it now’ and ‘bail out when the loans get too much’ is incredibly immature. Why the rush to have all these material things ?
People need to have some financial responsibility at the end of the day because all the borrowing to fuel the economy was always going to come back & bite the US because ultimately – loans have to be paid back. You simply cannot just keep borrowing to pay off your debts.
Just in case you are wondering - I am 38, I have a mortgage, I put 30% down, I do not have a balance on any of my credit cards and I do not have any loans outside of my mortgage. Last time I brought a car, I saved up for it. I sleep soundly at night because of this.
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Surely this kind of thinking is what got the US into trouble in the first place.
Your house is your home, it is not a credit instrument. Of course when you first buy a house, you can go into a negative equity situation. Over time, inflation reduces the value of your loan in real terms and this issue is resolved. Ask someone that brought a house 15 years ago and never re-mortgaged how much equity they have. Obviously people that don't re-mortgage don't see their home as a credit instrument.
I have plenty of friends in the US that kept on 'taking equity out of their home' to drive flash cars, get their huge LCD screens etc etc. Now they are in negative equity & you think they should just bail out & hand back the car, LCD, the new kitchen. the foreign holiday and the house ? Even those on high salaries are paying $1000's a month to pay off these loans. Fuck that.
It is not madness to continue paying for your house if it's worth $350K but you owe $400K. You still need somewhere to live and the prices will move up. It is irresponsible to just bail out. It is a symptom of wanting an immediate solution as opposed to buckling down and toughing it out for a while.
Not saving money to buy stuff is being financially immature. When you borrow - you end up paying over the odds for what you buy, the only difference is you don't have to be patient. If you have patience & can save to buy stuff you will be much better off.
All this ‘gotta have it now’ and ‘bail out when the loans get too much’ is incredibly immature. Why the rush to have all these material things ?
People need to have some financial responsibility at the end of the day because all the borrowing to fuel the economy was always going to come back & bite the US because ultimately – loans have to be paid back. You simply cannot just keep borrowing to pay off your debts.
Just in case you are wondering - I am 38, I have a mortgage, I put 30% down, I do not have a balance on any of my credit cards and I do not have any loans outside of my mortgage. Last time I brought a car, I saved up for it. I sleep soundly at night because of this.
You need to watch the movie Boiler Room...Houses are no longer homes for people who want to make quick money...That idea of your house being your home died with our parents...
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You need to watch the movie Boiler Room...Houses are no longer homes for people who want to make quick money...That idea of your house being your home died with our parents...
I need to watch a movie ???
Excellent economic commentary there... ::)
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is this what they mean by 'trickle down' ???
Both parties have dropped the ball on this, or did you forget that the Dems have controlled Congress for the last two years.
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Republicans or Democrats? Are you serious? Do you really think your government is there to protect your interests? I work for one of the largest banks in the world and can tell you that every time we are audited by the SEC, the FED or whoever the only thing the regulators are interested in is how to get a job with us once they put in their 2-3 years at the regulator. The banking industry owns washington. You watch TV and see that the Federal Reserve is cutting interest rates or raising interest rates. Do you know that the Federal Reserve is not a Federal agency? It is a banking union with international stock owners. That is correct. The Federal Reserve was set up by the largest banks and some of the richest families in the world back in 1910 during another banking crisis to get the taxpayers to save them. It is not there to help you. It is there to help banks and their stock holders.
The markets have fallen due to fear that our banking system may collapse. Banks take in deposits from businesses and consumers and then loan the money out to other businesses and consumers. Now that all of those loans are in trouble due to Joe Idiot not paying his mortgage the banks do not have enough money to pay back their depositors. If everyone ran to the bank to withdraw their money today they would not get it back and the banking system would collapse. This is what happened during the Great Depression and more recently in Argentina and it is the reason for the current bailout.
When you ask who is to blame it is the ratings companies (Moodys & S&P) who rated Joe Idiot's mortgage as AAA since the ratings industry felt that Joe Idiot's mortgage could be refinanced due to ever increasing home values. The mortgage companies sold mortgages as they always have and are not to blame. They simply sold the mortgages to idiots and got their commissions. They then sold off the mortgages to investment banks since the ratings companies said that Joe Idiot was solid. The ratings agencies did not do their homework. Then one day the ratings agencies decided to re-rate the mortgage related securities that were out there and they decreased the value of those ratings and everyone holding those securities (banks, investment banks, hedge funds, pension funds, mutual funds, etc.) lost money. That was about a year ago and you got a market decline that has continued to accelerate.
Do not blame Republicans or Democrats. They are owned. Blame the ratings agencies and the idiot next door with his no money down mortgage and 100k HELOC.