Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: ASJChaotic on October 09, 2008, 02:14:03 PM
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which is better to take?
is it a combination of Pre and Post shake?
is it a During workout shake
in order to get that protein and carbs to the muscle
are the shakes even required or do they benefit in any way?
cuz each shake would be 500 cals and that's 2 shakes 1000 calories and that would only leave me wtih 3000 calories left out of 4000
I could be eating that 1000 calories from foods I like rather than Whey, Sugar and Gatorade
what do you guys think
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for mass
go to a store and buy some bulk dextrose. its cheap, its ideal source of carbs (pure glucose).. and also for how it is so cheap :D combine 200g dextrose 100 g whey isolate and drink that starting 30 mins prior to workout all the way through your workout then whatever is left at the end just pound that shit.
for cutting
50g whey isolate mixed with 10 g mct oils 45 mins pre workout
**thats it**
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for mass
go to a store and buy some bulk dextrose. its cheap, its ideal source of carbs (pure glucose).. and also for how it is so cheap :D combine 200g dextrose 100 g whey isolate and drink that starting 30 mins prior to workout all the way through your workout then whatever is left at the end just pound that shit.
for cutting
50g whey isolate mixed with 10 g mct oils 45 mins pre workout
**thats it**
thanks for the advice, you really seem to know your stuff bro
would sugar work as well as dextrose? pure glucose too right? I'll look for it in my superstore if they have dextrose
I would need a big ass shaker bottle for that, wouldn't I? how much water would you mix that in? 1 liter?
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most sugar like as in sgar cane or table sugar is sucrose which is combo fructose and glucose... ideally you want pure gluoce as glucose can go to BOTH muscle and liver while fructose can ONLY go to liver.. however if you dont have some sort of glucose (dextrose, maltodextrin, waxy maize, ) then using regular sugar is OKAY... gatorade would be better as gatorade is the same thing expect wit added dextrose so the ratio of glucose to fructose is more beneficial..
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for mass
go to a store and buy some bulk dextrose. its cheap, its ideal source of carbs (pure glucose).. and also for how it is so cheap :D combine 200g dextrose 100 g whey isolate and drink that starting 30 mins prior to workout all the way through your workout then whatever is left at the end just pound that shit.
for cutting
50g whey isolate mixed with 10 g mct oils 45 mins pre workout
**thats it**
and how do you feel about "wait until all glucose is depleted and your muscles want sugar cuz they will take up more" and people who say pre and or during workout shakes are ineffective?
I tried the "heavy weights" method 6-8 reps with out much results (even though I got stronger) so I'm changed to the 8-12 reps now with high volume and more blood in that muscle and I gained 1 inch in my arms in less than a month, and I don't want to send empty blood to my muscles
so yeah pre, during and post workout around 1200 calories that shake that you recommended right? good thing I need 4000 just to maintain :D
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most sugar like as in sgar cane or table sugar is sucrose which is combo fructose and glucose... ideally you want pure gluoce as glucose can go to BOTH muscle and liver while fructose can ONLY go to liver.. however if you dont have some sort of glucose (dextrose, maltodextrin, waxy maize, ) then using regular sugar is OKAY... gatorade would be better as gatorade is the same thing expect wit added dextrose so the ratio of glucose to fructose is more beneficial..
LOL I was just about to ask you if gatorade would be good in the shake
are dextrose maltodextrin available in just any store or would they be have to be ordered on a site?
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maybe the muscle might take up more but that isnt any real indication of growth.. your better off with those anti catabolic carbs in yoru blood while your lifting and potentially doing al that damage to your muscles.. youll grow much better going with than gong without..
if mass is what you want...big thick mass .. then you still should lift heavy at least one movement (pick a basic compound movements best done with a barbell of some kind) in yoru workouts.. the rest can be pump training that is good for sure.. but heavy weights help thicken you up faster..
most gncs are over priced on their bulk carbohydrates..some max muscles have good deals on bulk carbs...vitamin shoppe has some on sale (malto) right now... but you should be ale to call around to laoocal grocery or baking shoops and buy some dextrose..
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maybe the muscle might take up more but that isnt any real indication of growth.. your better off with those anti catabolic carbs in yoru blood while your lifting and potentially doing al that damage to your muscles.. youll grow much better going with than gong without..
if mass is what you want...big thick mass .. then you still should lift heavy at least one movement (pick a basic compound movements best done with a barbell of some kind) in yoru workouts.. the rest can be pump training that is good for sure.. but heavy weights help thicken you up faster..
most gncs are over priced on their bulk carbohydrates..some max muscles have good deals on bulk carbs...vitamin shoppe has some on sale (malto) right now... but you should be ale to call around to laoocal grocery or baking shoops and buy some dextrose..
tbombz you are wise.....very wise
almost as wise as ########### himself ;D your secret is safe with me ;)
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maybe the muscle might take up more but that isnt any real indication of growth.. your better off with those anti catabolic carbs in yoru blood while your lifting and potentially doing al that damage to your muscles.. youll grow much better going with than gong without..
if mass is what you want...big thick mass .. then you still should lift heavy at least one movement (pick a basic compound movements best done with a barbell of some kind) in yoru workouts.. the rest can be pump training that is good for sure.. but heavy weights help thicken you up faster..
most gncs are over priced on their bulk carbohydrates..some max muscles have good deals on bulk carbs...vitamin shoppe has some on sale (malto) right now... but you should be ale to call around to laoocal grocery or baking shoops and buy some dextrose..
GNC is overpriced on EVERYTHING >:(
I very much agree with you on the pre/during/after shake
as far as heavy weights go how do you feel about "pyramid" where you have high reps and low reps with heavy weights in it?
kind of like what Kevin Levrone did 8)
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how much water do you mix the 200g of dextrose and 100 g of protein with?
by the way I see you got the 2:1 ratio of carb and protein down ;D
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how much water do you mix the 200g of dextrose and 100 g of protein with?
by the way I see you got the 2:1 ratio of carb and protein down ;D
16oz should be fine. I use that for my PWO shake, but it's 200g of Karbolyn. I usually just down some BCAA's before I train, I don't drink anything while working out though.
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16oz should be fine. I use that for my PWO shake, but it's 200g of Karbolyn. I usually just down some BCAA's before I train, I don't drink anything while working out though.
wouldn't that be a VERY concentrated shake? :o
that's 500 ml of water with 200 grams of sugar and 100 grams of protein in it LOL ;D
can we just eat candy bars instead of sugar? hahahahahahhaahhahahaha
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Seriously, you're making this way too complicated. What are your goals?
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Seriously, you're making this way too complicated. What are your goals?
;D
getting the maximum muscle growth out of every workout
I have to find the best way to do it
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;D
getting the maximum muscle growth out of every workout
I have to find the best way to do it
From your pics. You need it. ;D Just messin' with you.
Anyway, why don't you experiment with what works for you? Try a little of this & a little of that & see what happens. Give each method five or six weeks & if it doesn't meet your needs move on.
For example:
Average training day for me: (sometimes things change a little here & there)
I can't eat within 1-2 hours before training (makes me ill when training). About ten minutes before training I drink my homemade NO drink. While lifting I drink a shake containing about 7.5 grams of taurine, 7.5 grams of L-Tyrosine, & 5 grams of Arginine Powder. After lifting I like to hit the Sauna & I'll usually have a coupe tablespoons of my trueprotein mix (25% waxy maize, 25% malto, 20% BCAA's, 20% EAA's, & 10% l-leucine). Adds up to about 10grams of carbs & 10 grams of various proteins. Then I head home for a real meal or another protein shake depending on what's on my agenda for the day.
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From your pics. You need it. ;D Just messin' with you.
Anyway, why don't you experiment with what works for you? Try a little of this & a little of that & see what happens. Give each method five or six weeks & if it doesn't meet your needs move on.
For example:
Average training day for me: (sometimes things change a little here & there)
I can't eat within 1-2 hours before training (makes me ill when training). About ten minutes before training I drink my homemade NO drink. While lifting I drink a shake containing about 7.5 grams of taurine, 7.5 grams of L-Tyrosine, & 5 grams of Arginine Powder. After lifting I like to hit the Sauna & I'll usually have a coupe tablespoons of my trueprotein mix (25% waxy maize, 25% malto, 20% BCAA's, 20% EAA's, & 10% l-leucine). Adds up to about 10grams of carbs & 10 grams of various proteins. Then I head home for a real meal or another protein shake depending on what's on my agenda for the day.
ya nice going, I'm trying to find the best method to cause the most muscle growth
there are so many frigging theories out there >:(
har har har about the "you need it" comment ;D
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for mass
go to a store and buy some bulk dextrose. its cheap, its ideal source of carbs (pure glucose).. and also for how it is so cheap :D combine 200g dextrose 100 g whey isolate and drink that starting 30 mins prior to workout all the way through your workout then whatever is left at the end just pound that shit.
for cutting
50g whey isolate mixed with 10 g mct oils 45 mins pre workout
**thats it**
Dextrose 30 min BEFORE workout?? thats F'ed up IMO. you dont wanna spike your insuling BEFORE workout.
which is better to take?
is it a combination of Pre and Post shake?
is it a During workout shake
in order to get that protein and carbs to the muscle
are the shakes even required or do they benefit in any way?
cuz each shake would be 500 cals and that's 2 shakes 1000 calories and that would only leave me wtih 3000 calories left out of 4000
I could be eating that 1000 calories from foods I like rather than Whey, Sugar and Gatorade
what do you guys think
Well you keep saying SHAKE, and im assuming you want something fast and simple? if thats the case, i would buy Sliced 100% whole Wheat bread, have a couple of slices of that with your 40-50g protein shake ( again, assuming you want something simple and easy to make, if you have the luxary, make that a turkey sandwich but dont be adding any mayo or veggies)
after workout, then you can use dextrose or maltodextrin (40 - 60g or depending on your body, im carb sensitive) + 40-60 g protein.
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ya nice going, I'm trying to find the best method to cause the most muscle growth
there are so many frigging theories out there >:(
har har har about the "you need it" comment ;D
Exactly, the key is to figure out what works best. You're right there are a ton of theories & such out there. Most can be sound but some may not work for you.
BTW - I don't think I've seen your pics.
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GNC is overpriced on EVERYTHING >:(
I very much agree with you on the pre/during/after shake
as far as heavy weights go how do you feel about "pyramid" where you have high reps and low reps with heavy weights in it?
kind of like what Kevin Levrone did 8)
yeah i do pyramid sets.. they are good
i train like this..
most of the time i start with an isolation movement like say rope pull downs for triceps then i do a few light weight pump sets and get as much blood into the triceps as i can in those sets.. then i head ovcer to a compound movement like incline bench over head french press or close grip bemnch press or two hand one dumbell behind the neck extensions.... then i do a few sets going from light to heavy then when i reasch a heavy weight ill do normally 2 heavy sets then most of the time i train pump style with intensity techinques like drop sets negatives rest pause etc etc untill i feel like the muscle is completely pumped and completely exhausted...
you could split that shake up into three seperate shakes two shakes or one big shake, dont matter... use whatever youd liket o make it taste better..
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yeah i do pyramid sets.. they are good
i train like this..
most of the time i start with an isolation movement like say rope pull downs for triceps then i do a few light weight pump sets and get as much blood into the triceps as i can in those sets.. then i head ovcer to a compound movement like incline bench over head french press or close grip bemnch press or two hand one dumbell behind the neck extensions.... then i do a few sets going from light to heavy then when i reasch a heavy weight ill do normally 2 heavy sets then most of the time i train pump style with intensity techinques like drop sets negatives rest pause etc etc untill i feel like the muscle is completely pumped and completely exhausted...
you could split that shake up into three seperate shakes two shakes or one big shake, dont matter... use whatever youd liket o make it taste better..
ya, I'm just trying to see what works best for me, there are millions of ways you can workout so many combinations
I combine heavy sets with normal sets with moderate reps then at the end I'll do a 2 tri-sets to completely exhaust the muscle
as markdavis would say "lets get these sumbitch muscles growing" >:( ;D
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Exactly, the key is to figure out what works best. You're right there are a ton of theories & such out there. Most can be sound but some may not work for you.
BTW - I don't think I've seen your pics.
I think you might be the only person on getbig who hasn't ;D
My pose 8)
no body touches me in this pose, combined with the best legs in Getbig III it's gonna blow the judges away :D
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As Rim has said you're making this way too difficult..first and formost define your goals...bigger or leaner? trying both at the same time isn't practical asides if you could do it successfully you wouldn't be so confused and posting as much as you do.
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As Rim has said you're making this way too difficult..first and formost define your goals...bigger or leaner? trying both at the same time isn't practical asides if you could do it successfully you wouldn't be so confused and posting as much as you do.
well I want to get shredded and gain muscle at the same time, is that too much to ask for? :D ;D
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thank you whoever deleted my post from this morning. i regretted it when i woke up realizing how quickly i ahd written that without really stressing enough the dangers.. :)
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thank you whoever deleted my post from this morning. i regretted it when i woke up realizing how quickly i ahd written that without really stressing enough the dangers.. :)
No problem. DO NOT promote the use of insulin here.
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what i do for gaining...
meal, solid food = 80-100g carbs & 40g protein
1½-2h later train
Pwo shake, dex + whey = 80g carbs & 40g protein
1-2h later, solid food = 50-60g carbs & 40g protein
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what i do for gaining...
meal, solid food = 80-100g carbs & 40g protein
1½-2h later train
Pwo shake, dex + whey = 80g carbs & 40g protein
1-2h later, solid food = 50-60g carbs & 40g protein
ya I like solid food too
I'd rather eat
4 cups of rice with a chicken breast than (gatorade with whey)
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only do a preworkout if my diet was lacking that day and need some convenient nutrition...just started doing creatine mono mixed with some gatorade powder and start drinking that toward the end of my workout followed by whey isolate pwo combined w/ 2 slices of white bread when i get home.. so far so good
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ya I like solid food too
I'd rather eat
4 cups of rice with a chicken breast than (gatorade with whey)
post workout you could cut ou the dextrose and eat 4 cups white rice, chicken breast, and have a whey protein shake with it (50-60 g) if you wanted. same thing.
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post workout you could cut ou the dextrose and eat 4 cups white rice, chicken breast, and have a whey protein shake with it (50-60 g) if you wanted. same thing.
ya I think I'll do that I like solid food better
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Is it true that when you consume fats or protein with a carbohydrate source you slow the rate of digestion? So for example by removing the fats from milk you raise the GI of the milk.
Its just I remember candi was talking about somebody's PWO shake and said the different foods digest separately.
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Never had a "during workout shake"...
lol, i once had gatorade and felt sick during the workout. If i drink anything other than water, i feel "funny" in the stomach.
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Is it true that when you consume fats or protein with a carbohydrate source you slow the rate of digestion? So for example by removing the fats from milk you raise the GI of the milk.
Its just I remember candi was talking about somebody's PWO shake and said the different foods digest separately.
yes exxactly a nutrient is always digested at the fastest rate possible.. your bodies ability to metabolize glucose is the same whether or not dietary fat is present in the digestive tract.. its true that nutrients can effect the 'transit times' of other nutrients.. how fast they are actually movin across the stomach and intestines.. but to actually effect abosrbtion rate it a different matter...now dietary fiber can actually do this to glucose, but only when its naturally intertwined.. the idea that combing a source of fibr with a simpl starch slows the simple starch is flawed.. the fibr must be part of the gluose structure... like broccoli or carrots or aples or corn for example..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the above is how i understand it to be. i may be wrong, its possible, ive been wrong before
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Atlarge nutrition's opticen..none better!
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Gaspari SizeOn works weel for me ;D
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chocolatemilk motherfuckers.
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My secret... ;D
(http://www.sportyshealth.com.au/images/P/4f60ae86c7a0829a05f379f94aff789d.jpg)
(http://img.thefind.com/images/TgAFwdENwBAQANBLbNBB7v771U3klKBRhBOxiOW6TN_jD9WGDdehIDhOEjRnq43jIQuCSD2J5pxoil1mxGRj9niXl7qU5iixoT6qa_hUDz8*?m=1&g=2)
Seriously. These products work! 8)
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maximus from atlarge nutrition tends to be my very first meal of the day and sometimes the only meal i have before i train along with results creatine product and I feel DAMN GOOD in the gym... if i'm working out later though i'll have a shake and my results or a meal..usually some kinda meat and naked baked potato then have a shake post workout instead. All depends on how the day is going and how i'm feeling.
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for mass
go to a store and buy some bulk dextrose. its cheap, its ideal source of carbs (pure glucose)..
what store sells that??
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what store sells that??
most grocery stores, should be no problem to find.
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most grocery stores, should be no problem to find.
i assume i the baking section? i will look today
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what store sells that??
If not go to www.trueprotein.com or www.proteinfactory.com it's in the neighborhood of 2-3 dollars a pound & you can add flavors to it.
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I would suggest taking WMS for carb source for PWO , works better for me then dextrose
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Pre-During-Post workout shakes, which is the best?
Post, no doubt. You shouldn't eat anything for at least 2 hours before training as the process of digestion will take blood away from your muscles to your stomach, and the same thing for during. Your glycogen stores should be full when you start your workout, and you shouldn't try to fill them 3 hours before going to the gym, not only because it's impossible - as it takes 24 hours for ingested carbs to be stored as glycogen - but for the reason I already explained that digestion hinders training energy. There is also a psychological reason why you should take it post workout: the drink rich in simple carbs will be a reward for your efforts lifting iron, and you will work hard to earn it. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Post, no doubt. You shouldn't eat anything for at least 2 hours before training as the process of digestion will take blood away from your muscles to your stomach, and the same thing for during. Your glycogen stores should be full when you start your workout, and you shouldn't try to fill them 3 hours before going to the gym, not only because it's impossible - as it takes 24 hours for ingested carbs to be stored as glycogen - but for the reason I already explained that digestion hinders training energy. There is also a psychological reason why you should take it post workout: the drink rich in simple carbs will be a reward for your efforts lifting iron, and you will work hard to earn it. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
really? :o I never knew that
but simple carbs after workout will be broken down immediately? not 24 hours later? I guess that's glucose not glycogen...right? ???
I'll earn Gatorade after lifting heavy Iron ....frigging awesome :D ..... >:( ;D
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really? :o I never knew that
but simple carbs after workout will be broken down immediately? not 24 hours later? I guess that's glucose not glycogen...right? ???
I'll earn Gatorade after lifting heavy Iron ....frigging awesome :D ..... >:( ;D
Well, the processes of digestion, assimilation and synthesis together take roughly 24 hours. That is, if you eat a steak after training it will take roughly 24 hours for the protein of the beef to be converted into actin and myosin to repair your muscle fibers. It might in fact, take up to 3 days depending on mitigating circumstances.
As for glucose, it is an exception because it is the simplest sugar that the body can use - and the only one of the brain uses - so it's assimilation is much faster because glucose requires no digestion. This coupled with the fact that glucose spikes insulin strongly, makes it formidable in boosting glycogen stores since insulin sensitizes receptors in the muscles responsible to storing glycogen.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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no no no.. glycogen synthesis can happen within minutes... does not take no 24 hours... beeff can take up to a day because beef can take up to a day to fully digest... man where do you get some of this info ? do you just make it up ?
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no no no.. glycogen synthesis can happen within minutes... does not take no 24 hours... beeff can take up to a day because beef can take up to a day to fully digest... man where do you get some of this info ? do you just make it up ?
Again, if you had read my post you'd see I mentioned that glucose is an exception because it is absorbed very quickly. The conversion of complex carbs with long chains takes much longer because it has to be digested and broken down into simpler carbs firsts. Don't pass judgement on a post before thoroughly reading and understanding it.
And please show me where I am wrong about this as a general rule. Pick up any text in physiology and you will see that the processes of digestion, assimilation and synthesis take a conbined 24 hours.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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umn, by complex carb do you mean broccoli or romain lettuce? because no stachy carb like brown rice or oatmeal is going to take 24 hours to digest and be sent into glycogen stores. have you ever used a glucometer after you eat ? dude shit happens pretty damn quickly it doesnt take no 24 hours..
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Again, if you had read my post you'd see I mentioned that glucose is an exception because it is absorbed very quickly. The conversion of complex carbs with long chains takes much longer because it has to be digested and broken down into simpler carbs firsts. Don't pass judgement on a post before thoroughly reading and understanding it.
And please show me where I am wrong about this as a general rule. Pick up any text in physiology and you will see that the processes of digestion, assimilation and synthesis take a conbined 24 hours.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
your post doesn't even make sense ???
24 hours for carbs to digest
so if you eat like a bowl of rice you won't feel the energy until next day? :D
it's common sense, I'd love to see the study where they prove it takes 24 hours
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24 hours for carbs to digest
No, I said the combined proceses of digestion, assimilation and synthesis as a rule take 24 hours. This can be found on any physiology book.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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suckmymuscle has no clue here
is he saying it takes 24 hours for dextrose to digest as a general rule? ::)
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I can't believe suckmymuscle is saying it takes 37.5 hours for sucrose to leave the duodenum. This guy is crazy.
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You people are obviously illiterate and can't unerstand basic English. I said that the combined processes of digestion, assimilation, synthesis and excretion as a general rule take 24 hours. I never said that digestion take 24 hours, nor did I claim especifically that the digestion of glucose takes 24 hours.
SUCMYMUSCLE.