Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: NaturalWonder83 on October 16, 2008, 06:17:26 PM
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ive seen a lot of bodybuiulding videos and i noticedd the pros like to have a shake after-but i hear so many people talk about eatinbg the whole foods posst workout-like they will carry chciken rice to the gym in cooler and eat that-i dunno about that cuz 1) i feel not hungry after lifting heavy and 2)isnt you susposed to take advantage of the window of opportinuty post workout-so like if i eat a big meal of say steaka nd potatoes ill take so long to digesta nd it will be worthless??? but there have been times wher ei will take aminos psot and then go eat ssuhi-i felt good after and i felt good the days after all recovered and stuff-what do yall think?
thank you...
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as soon as i finish training i have a protien shake and then within the hour i eat a solid meal.
usually steak or chicken. some sort of lean meat with either rice or potatoes
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as soon as i finish training i have a protien shake and then within the hour i eat a solid meal.
usually steak or chicken. some sort of lean meat with either rice or potatoes
any carb post workout? or jus the protein?
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in the protien shake its 30g protien and 30g carbs
in the meal its usually 60-80g protien and about 100g carbs (rice has a shitload of carbs in it so its not that hard to eat that much)
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as soon as i finish training i have a protien shake and then within the hour i eat a solid meal.
usually steak or chicken. some sort of lean meat with either rice or potatoes
me 2 8)
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as soon as i finish training i have a protien shake and then within the hour i eat a solid meal.
usually steak or chicken. some sort of lean meat with either rice or potatoes
thats how you do it
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while there is this "window" post workout, I think alot of the High fructose post workout hype was perpetuated by the great schill Bill Phillips to sell Phosphagen Hp and the INSANLY priced Beta-something (it was that little tub that had creatine and HMB)
honestly (imho), anything postworkout will work
however, I do see benefit in post workout BCAA and a teaspoon of Glutamine
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ive seen a lot of bodybuiulding videos and i noticedd the pros like to have a shake after-but i hear so many people talk about eatinbg the whole foods posst workout-like they will carry chciken rice to the gym in cooler and eat that-i dunno about that cuz 1) i feel not hungry after lifting heavy and 2)isnt you susposed to take advantage of the window of opportinuty post workout-so like if i eat a big meal of say steaka nd potatoes ill take so long to digesta nd it will be worthless??? but there have been times wher ei will take aminos psot and then go eat ssuhi-i felt good after and i felt good the days after all recovered and stuff-what do yall think?
thank you...
do you ever forget what name you are posting under?
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do you ever forget what name you are posting under?
Yes, Natfag83/Bluto/Blue Devil/(insert gimmick here)/etc. seem to get confused about which account "they" are on quite frequently. :-\
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Shut the fuck up you retarded piece of shit. No one likes you. Drop dead.
Spot on
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The shake is not essential
u can have a solid meal after a workout
The whole 3 hour window post workout shake/meal is a myth
it was championed through magazines
if u have enough nutrient in your blood your body will compensate for everything
the key is to have constant protein flowing in your blood stream
Spiking insulin is an option depending on your goals
and that should be introduced while the body is pumped up and blood flow is at its max
during workout or not more than 30 minutes post workout
Amino acid pills are worthless
I asked some of the retail supplement shops about why do they still get amino acids
well the answer was we sell them well and people ask for it still people live by the myth that if u take amino acids you will be stronger
yet amino acids are protein
a delicious scope of why protein shake gives you 20-30g protein which is around 10-15 large tabs of amino acid which hurts your throat when u swallow them
and taking amino acids with protein shakes is another mistake
any type of protein must get converted to amino acids to get absorbed by the body ... meaning any type of protein will get converted to amino acids (that is the first step of the protein digestion)
I guess still people get hypnotized by the magazine ads and articles
you got to keep in mind that articles are written to market a certain product or approach to ensure the constant sale of certain product
These days you see a lot of ads in the mags saying take glutamine + argentine pre and post workout
where if someone looks close to these to substances and how they work
they compete against each other once when getting digested
glutamine digests to ammonia and argentine to nitric oxide
where ammonia overpowers nitric oxide and you lose the benefit of it
the same reason why you should take calcium and zinc at the same time
and the zink + calcium + magnesium is one of the useless supplements that u can take
BCAA is a whole different thing as I am a big advocate of HMB
for muscle gain and some medical cases
And fructose cant be stored as muscle glycogen or used as a source of energy
even the glycogen in the liver
which is fructose
doesnt take it from the stomach directly
the body converts some of the blood sugar to fructose
so dont think that is u eat only 25g fructose a day it will go to the liver
everything that goes in the stomach has to be digested and then converted and transported to wherever the body sees fit
DX
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while there is this "window" post workout, I think alot of the High fructose post workout hype was perpetuated by the great schill Bill Phillips to sell Phosphagen Hp and the INSANLY priced Beta-something (it was that little tub that had creatine and HMB)
honestly (imho), anything postworkout will work
however, I do see benefit in post workout BCAA and a teaspoon of Glutamine
I think there IS no window ..
you can eat even 2-3 hours after a workout ...nothingwill hapen
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The shake is not essential
u can have a solid meal after a workout
The whole 3 hour window post workout shake/meal is a myth
it was championed through magazines
if u have enough nutrient in your blood your body will compensate for everything
the key is to have constant protein flowing in your blood stream
Spiking insulin is an option depending on your goals
and that should be introduced while the body is pumped up and blood flow is at its max
during workout or not more than 30 minutes post workout
Amino acid pills are worthless
I asked some of the retail supplement shops about why do they still get amino acids
well the answer was we sell them well and people ask for it still people live by the myth that if u take amino acids you will be stronger
yet amino acids are protein
a delicious scope of why protein shake gives you 20-30g protein which is around 10-15 large tabs of amino acid which hurts your throat when u swallow them
and taking amino acids with protein shakes is another mistake
any type of protein must get converted to amino acids to get absorbed by the body ... meaning any type of protein will get converted to amino acids (that is the first step of the protein digestion)
I guess still people get hypnotized by the magazine ads and articles
you got to keep in mind that articles are written to market a certain product or approach to ensure the constant sale of certain product
These days you see a lot of ads in the mags saying take glutamine + argentine pre and post workout
where if someone looks close to these to substances and how they work
they compete against each other once when getting digested
glutamine digests to ammonia and argentine to nitric oxide
where ammonia overpowers nitric oxide and you lose the benefit of it
the same reason why you should take calcium and zinc at the same time
and the zink + calcium + magnesium is one of the useless supplements that u can take
BCAA is a whole different thing as I am a big advocate of HMB
for muscle gain and some medical cases
And fructose cant be stored as muscle glycogen or used as a source of energy
even the glycogen in the liver
which is fructose
doesnt take it from the stomach directly
the body converts some of the blood sugar to fructose
so dont think that is u eat only 25g fructose a day it will go to the liver
everything that goes in the stomach has to be digested and then converted and transported to wherever the body sees fit
DX
i disagree with you on the anabolic window - and agree with you on the amino tabs - although i would also add bcaa tabs to that too - a scoop of whey is fine IMO.
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ive seen a lot of bodybuiulding videos and i noticedd the pros like to have a shake after-but i hear so many people talk about eatinbg the whole foods posst workout-like they will carry chciken rice to the gym in cooler and eat that-i dunno about that cuz 1) i feel not hungry after lifting heavy and 2)isnt you susposed to take advantage of the window of opportinuty post workout-so like if i eat a big meal of say steaka nd potatoes ill take so long to digesta nd it will be worthless??? but there have been times wher ei will take aminos psot and then go eat ssuhi-i felt good after and i felt good the days after all recovered and stuff-what do yall think?
thank you...
What the fuck did you just say? ???
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I think there IS no window ..
you can eat even 2-3 hours after a workout ...nothingwill hapen
I honestly agree
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I honestly agree
noone asked for your oppinion skinny
STFU
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noone asked for your oppinion skinny
STFU
bruce lee was skinny too
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you can eat even 2-3 hours after a workout ...nothingwill hapen
not when you eat a bowl of soup ::)
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the 'window of opportunity' thing is just an illution,,marketers use it to sell their crap to most of the small minded delutionals just like most here in GB
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excellent question nw83
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not when you eat a bowl of soup ::)
tha's prolly the dumbest reply in the hystory of getbig ...
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ive seen a lot of bodybuiulding videos and i noticedd the pros like to have a shake after-but i hear so many people talk about eatinbg the whole foods posst workout-like they will carry chciken rice to the gym in cooler and eat that-i dunno about that cuz 1) i feel not hungry after lifting heavy and 2)isnt you susposed to take advantage of the window of opportinuty post workout-so like if i eat a big meal of say steaka nd potatoes ill take so long to digesta nd it will be worthless??? but there have been times wher ei will take aminos psot and then go eat ssuhi-i felt good after and i felt good the days after all recovered and stuff-what do yall think?
thank you...
Some trainer...
Some gimmick...
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post workout root beer or chocolate milk is best.
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the 'window of opportunity' thing is just an illution,,marketers use it to sell their crap to most of the small minded delutionals just like most here in GB
no its not - studies back it up 100%
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Ever thought of who made those studies, who funded the studies and where you read them
supplement companies
either they do a study and post it in their ads or a university does it where the whole project of testing is funded by a mutual interest party
again a supplement company or a magazine
mags have to advertise that to champion the idea and encourage supplements companies to advertise in their magazine
thus generate more money from the advertisers who will make money from readers
Of course the damage has done already and a lot of people will refuse to think twice or give a thought to what I just said cause it has been the trend for the past couple of decades
if not more
just keep in mind and think when does the actual muscle building process occur
while u r sleeping i.e. u should have enough digested nutrients in your system to do that whole building process
Not that I hate the idea of a shake post work out or say that spiking insulin wont make you grow but u can still get the same gains from regular food
and it will actually keep some leaner (less body fat)
but again it depend on the body type
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Ever thought of who made those studies, who funded the studies and where you read them
supplement companies
either they do a study and post it in their ads or a university does it where the whole project of testing is funded by a mutual interest party
again a supplement company or a magazine
mags have to advertise that to champion the idea and encourage supplements companies to advertise in their magazine
thus generate more money from the advertisers who will make money from readers
Of course the damage has done already and a lot of people will refuse to think twice or give a thought to what I just said cause it has been the trend for the past couple of decades
if not more
just keep in mind and think when does the actual muscle building process occur
while u r sleeping i.e. u should have enough digested nutrients in your system to do that whole building process
Not that I hate the idea of a shake post work out or say that spiking insulin wont make you grow but u can still get the same gains from regular food
and it will actually keep some leaner (less body fat)
but again it depend on the body type
i have read many many studies on this, regardless of who funded them, they are sound well constructed studies - the results of which have been duplicated time and time again.
i am not saying that a solid meal straight after a workout won't make you grow - of course it will, but certain hormones and enzymes are higher during/immediately post workout that optimise where ingested nutrients go - the increased blood flow to the muscle during this time period also help deliver these nurtients where you want them - the muscle - waiting for an hour or 2 ibefore eating s not optimal IMO.
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Ever thought of who made those studies, who funded the studies and where you read them
supplement companies
either they do a study and post it in their ads or a university does it where the whole project of testing is funded by a mutual interest party
again a supplement company or a magazine
mags have to advertise that to champion the idea and encourage supplements companies to advertise in their magazine
thus generate more money from the advertisers who will make money from readers
Of course the damage has done already and a lot of people will refuse to think twice or give a thought to what I just said cause it has been the trend for the past couple of decades
if not more
just keep in mind and think when does the actual muscle building process occur
while u r sleeping i.e. u should have enough digested nutrients in your system to do that whole building process
Not that I hate the idea of a shake post work out or say that spiking insulin wont make you grow but u can still get the same gains from regular food
and it will actually keep some leaner (less body fat)
but again it depend on the body type
What do you think about dextrose, glucose in it's purest form, taken pwo?
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I am sure a lot of us have read many many studies
the only hormone that u will get with a fast digesting carb is insulin
it will store th nutrients in you blood stream
which will be done any way at a slower pace if u take in any other starch carb
During work out shake are a whole different story
here are some of my post on another post regarding some of your comments.
Protein is a bit hard to digest fast
even the fastest (Isolate takes around 40min when you body is depleted and you stomach is empty (hydrolyzed is out of the question now)
What I am recommending to a lot of the guys is
make a during the training shake
the follow is up with a post shake or a meal
the during shake should be very simple supplements digestion wise and should have very fast digesting and metabolizing components
what I recommend (and I mentioned it on this board I guess) take 40-60g fast digesting card (dextrose or vitargo) + 5-10g creatine + 5-10g BCAA + Glutamine (controversial if you are using argentine during or prior to your workout)
Drink it half way through you r work out when your blood flow is at it s maxed and you can feel the pump
and finish it 10 15 minutes before you conclude your training session
People who take fast digesting carb + protein post workout to get the insulin spike and replenish glycogen and store protein (plus other micro nutrients) however they think that the protein that is stored is the protein that they took with the shake
that is wrong
the glucose takes 10 minutes to completely work in which the protein hasnt yet
but it does store whatever protein you have in your blood stream from previous meals
and the protein that you took with the shake replenishes the blood stream.
You can have the protein shake with out without some more glucose or vitargo (depends on your diet plan and goal) post work out or just hit the next meal
If you are doing cardio after workout then you want to cut weight so keep carb during training at 30g or eliminate it
Then post workout you can take protein + slow carbs or a meal (as I said that is if you want to drop weight
and it again depends on your diet plan)
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interesting!
I don't know the science behind it, i just take 40g protein and 40g carbs immediately after wo.
If the dex insulin spike is quicker than the whey and only stores the protein already there, it would then be wise to have your pre wo meal be really high protein i guess... i haven't given much thought to the different digestion times of the macronutrients, i just know that dex and whey are pretty much the fastest digesting carb & protein sources there is.
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I am sure a lot of us have read many many studies
the only hormone that u will get with a fast digesting carb is insulin
it will store th nutrients in you blood stream
which will be done any way at a slower pace if u take in any other starch carb
really - then perhaps you should read some more studies, like the one below, that shows insulin is NOT the only hormone that is effected by a post workout meal:
Dietary supplements affect the anabolic hormones after weight-training exercise
R. M. Chandler, H. K. Byrne, J. G. Patterson and J. L. Ivy
Department of Kinesiology, University of Texas at Austin 78712.
To examine the effect of carbohydrate and/or protein supplements on the hormonal state of the body after weight-training exercise, nine experienced male weight lifters were given water (Control) or an isocaloric carbohydrate (CHO; 1.5 g/kg body wt), protein (PRO; 1.38 g/kg body wt), or carbohydrate-protein (CHO/PRO; 1.06 g carbohydrate/kg body wt and 0.41 g protein/kg) supplement immediately and 2 h after a standardized weight-training workout. Venous blood samples were drawn before and immediately after exercise and during 8 h of recovery. Exercise induced elevations in lactate, glucose, testosterone, and growth hormone. CHO and CHO/PRO stimulated higher insulin concentrations than PRO and Control. CHO/PRO led to an increase in growth hormone 6 h postexercise that was greater than PRO and Control. Supplements had no effect on insulin-like growth factor I but caused a significant decline in testosterone. The decline in testosterone, however, was not associated with a decline in luteinizing hormone, suggesting an increased clearance of testosterone after supplementation. The results suggest that nutritive supplements after weight-training exercise can produce a hormonal environment during recovery that may be favorable to muscle growth by stimulating insulin and growth hormone elevations.
I agree with what you say regarding a solid meal replenishing nutrients overnight - however it is far from optimal. As the study above shows a post workout insulin spike comes from carbs and carbs/pro - but only the carb/pro group stimulated GH.
Also, insulin does not store nutrients in the blood stream - it causes the nutrients to be cleared from the blood and stored in the muscle.
what you say regarding the time it takes for protein to be broken down it somewhat correct - however if you have protein in your blood from an earlier meal or pre workout meal/drink then it would be stored in the muscle along with the glucose from the post workout meal insulin spike. However as the study above shows there is increased benefit taking protein and carbs immediately after the workout. Also i have not even addressed the issue of pro/carb insulin's effect on cortisol, waiting 2 hours for a meal would leave your body catabolic for 2 hours - not a sensible thing to do in the quest for optimum muscle mass, when it can be easily avoided by a shake or cup of milk 8)
I could go on and post more studies, however I fell the above points back my claim enough 8)
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I am sure a lot of us have read many many studies … the only hormone that u will get with a fast digesting carb is insulin … it will store th nutrients in you blood stream … which will be done any way at a slower pace if u take in any other starch carb
During work out shake are a whole different story … here are some of my post on another post regarding some of your comments.
Protein is a bit hard to digest fast … even the fastest (Isolate takes around 40min when you body is depleted and you stomach is empty (hydrolyzed is out of the question now)
What I am recommending to a lot of the guys is … make a during the training shake … the follow is up with a post shake or a meal … the during shake should be very simple supplements digestion wise and should have very fast digesting and metabolizing components … what I recommend (and I mentioned it on this board I guess) take 40-60g fast digesting card (dextrose or vitargo) + 5-10g creatine + 5-10g BCAA + Glutamine (controversial if you are using argentine during or prior to your workout)
Drink it half way through you r work out when your blood flow is at it s maxed and you can feel the pump … and finish it 10 – 15 minutes before you conclude your training session …
People who take fast digesting carb + protein post workout to get the insulin spike and replenish glycogen and store protein (plus other micro nutrients) however they think that the protein that is stored is the protein that they took with the shake … that is wrong … the glucose takes 10 minutes to completely work in which the protein hasn’t yet … but it does store whatever protein you have in your blood stream from previous meals … and the protein that you took with the shake replenishes the blood stream.
You can have the protein shake with out without some more glucose or vitargo (depends on your diet plan and goal) post work out or just hit the next meal
If you are doing cardio after workout then you want to cut weight so keep carb during training at 30g or eliminate it
Then post workout you can take protein + slow carbs or a meal (as I said that is if you want to drop weight … and it again depends on your diet plan)
solid advice bro! What I do is Take 30g waxy maize with 5g creatine and 10 grams EAA/BCAA, I start drinking it before my workout is over and finish it before my 20 min cardio.
When I get home i wait about half an hour and have a meal with the same macros that I eat during the rest of the day, just with some added carbs.
I think the PWO window/shake is totally over rated.
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It just makes sense to have a liquid protein after a workout similar to waking up in the morning. Liquid is absorbed quick and the repair process starts immediately.
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The shake is not essential
u can have a solid meal after a workout
The whole 3 hour window post workout shake/meal is a myth
it was championed through magazines
if u have enough nutrient in your blood your body will compensate for everything
the key is to have constant protein flowing in your blood stream
Spiking insulin is an option depending on your goals
and that should be introduced while the body is pumped up and blood flow is at its max
during workout or not more than 30 minutes post workout
Amino acid pills are worthless
I asked some of the retail supplement shops about why do they still get amino acids
well the answer was we sell them well and people ask for it still people live by the myth that if u take amino acids you will be stronger
yet amino acids are protein
a delicious scope of why protein shake gives you 20-30g protein which is around 10-15 large tabs of amino acid which hurts your throat when u swallow them
and taking amino acids with protein shakes is another mistake
any type of protein must get converted to amino acids to get absorbed by the body ... meaning any type of protein will get converted to amino acids (that is the first step of the protein digestion)
I guess still people get hypnotized by the magazine ads and articles
you got to keep in mind that articles are written to market a certain product or approach to ensure the constant sale of certain product
These days you see a lot of ads in the mags saying take glutamine + argentine pre and post workout
where if someone looks close to these to substances and how they work
they compete against each other once when getting digested
glutamine digests to ammonia and argentine to nitric oxide
where ammonia overpowers nitric oxide and you lose the benefit of it
the same reason why you should take calcium and zinc at the same time
and the zink + calcium + magnesium is one of the useless supplements that u can take
BCAA is a whole different thing as I am a big advocate of HMB
for muscle gain and some medical cases
And fructose cant be stored as muscle glycogen or used as a source of energy
even the glycogen in the liver
which is fructose
doesnt take it from the stomach directly
the body converts some of the blood sugar to fructose
so dont think that is u eat only 25g fructose a day it will go to the liver
everything that goes in the stomach has to be digested and then converted and transported to wherever the body sees fit
DX
sorry alimaini you are wrong. fast proteins and carbs are very beneficial before during and after traiing.
jeez dude no offense but if you are makin a livivng in this sport as a guru i think im going to start doing the same..
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Shut the fuck up you retarded piece of shit. No one likes you. Drop dead.
MASSIVE MELTDOWN :o
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sorry alimaini you are wrong. fast proteins and carbs are very beneficial before during and after traiing.
jeez dude no offense but if you are makin a livivng in this sport as a guru i think im going to start doing the same..
hahahaha bump for the truth 8)
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interesting!
I don't know the science behind it, i just take 40g protein and 40g carbs immediately after wo.
If the dex insulin spike is quicker than the whey and only stores the protein already there, it would then be wise to have your pre wo meal be really high protein i guess... i haven't given much thought to the different digestion times of the macronutrients, i just know that dex and whey are pretty much the fastest digesting carb & protein sources there is.
yes very smart bobby..ive been taking note of the digestion rates for a long time.. year or two... i always tell people to take pre workout whey along with post workout whey...
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yes very smart bobby..ive been taking note of the digestion rates for a long time.. year or two... i always tell people to take pre workout whey along with post workout whey...
i used to do that. Whey before, dex + whey after. Didn't like it though, "eating" right before the wo. So i stopped with the pre wo whey shake. maybe i should up the p in the meal before however... :D
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post workout root beer or chocolate milk is best.
You need to lay off those root beers and choc milk, quaker.
They aren't doing your physique any favors.
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I didn't read all the responses but....it's a shake immediatley after training,then a whole food protein meal usually within an hour or so of the shake (this is just what i believe in/works for me)
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You need to lay off those root beers and choc milk, quaker.
They aren't doing your physique any favors.
you're welcome to post your own pictures looking better than me anytime. :D
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(http://d3.biggestmenu.com/00/00/a3/826b1c31cefbc80d_m.jpg)
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(http://d3.biggestmenu.com/00/00/a3/826b1c31cefbc80d_m.jpg)
Add some mushrooms and that picture is perfect!
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you're welcome to post your own pictures looking better than me anytime. :D
I could post a few that were taken a couple of months ago, but that's not real time.
You'll see some pics soon.
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Dave Palumbo reccomends waxy maize, straight carbs and digests immediately. It has been working for me.
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Naturalfag83 aka bluto doesn't care about the advice most of you gave him. Its the same damn questions recycled over and over again. He never bothers posting it in the nutrition section because trolling is frowned upon there.
Just a ploy to gain acceptance.
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Naturalfag83 aka bluto doesn't care about the advice most of you gave him. Its the same damn questions recycled over and over again. He never bothers posting it in the nutrition section because trolling is frowned upon there.
Just a ploy to gain acceptance.
Yes Natural Wonder is a boring piece of shit. Someone should end his existence as soon as possible.
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as soon as i finish training i have a protien shake and then within the hour i eat a solid meal.
usually steak or chicken. some sort of lean meat with either rice or potatoes
x2
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Anyone who thinks the shake and solid meal post workout is absolutely necessary has ever tried without?
If yes, how does it compare concerning your goals in change of body composition?
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Anyone who thinks the shake and solid meal post workout is absolutely necessary has ever tried without?
If yes, how does it compare concerning your goals in change of body composition?
yes i have. when i dropped the shake and switched to whole food it didnt seem like it made a difference. but when i reincoprporated the shake i noticed that it did indeed have a big effect on recovery time and overall growth.
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yes i have. when i dropped the shake and switched to whole food it didnt seem like it made a difference. but when i reincoprporated the shake i noticed that it did indeed have a big effect on recovery time and overall growth.
First you dropped the shake and no difference, then you re-added it and it made a difference? Sounds strange.
And how exactly did you determine the improved changes in body composition?
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If you know how GH is produced in the body you would have understood the study
the amount you your protein intake effect the production of GH in your body and certain amino acids lead to increase of GH production thus IGF-1
however I never said wait 2 hours after a workout
if you are a body builder or an athlete for that matter
you should stick to a 3 hour meal interval regimen and usually when you finish your workout the time has come to have your next meal
As per the study: (CHO; 1.5 g/kg body wt), protein (PRO; 1.38 g/kg body wt)
meaning for a 200klbs they took (135g CHO and 124g PRO)
And about the study the same can be said if you take a sold meal (instead of a supplement)
although you have to keep in mind that insulin and GH work back to back
meaning if one is low the other is hi
so as soon as insulin is released the GH production is reduced
You will get cortisol in your system only if your food intake is less than what you require
which is hard to do or shouldnt be done by an athlete (specially if you eat every 3 hours)
And I never said that a post workout shake/meal is not beneficial
what I am saying is that it is overrated (something that has been done to the community by the supp. companies and the mags)
If a person cant eat post workout than he is better of with the shake but this has nothing to do with facts and how the body works ...
I am not here to argue with tbombz or Fatpanda
this is what I have to say and I guess I always try to deliver facts that make sense in a simple way
and a lot appreciate it on the board
About milk
heres a reply I posted on another board:
Whey protein is cheap considering the amount of protein you get and cause the price of whey has gone up nearly 100% in the past couple of years
so has everything else I still think it is a very good choice
but you do the calculation according to the prices in your country
We all know we get best source of protein powders from milk (whey and it various filtration versions) however milk is only milk has less than 40% of the milk is actually protein and only 20% of that protein is whey
so only 7.5% of the total skim milks caloric intake is whey. Meaning only 2.25g of whey protein in a liter of skimmed milk
The carbohydrate of milk is called lactose and some people cant tolerate it and have allergy against it ... and the body doesnt have the proper enzymes to make full use of it (converting all of it to glucose and making it available as energy source)
If I remember right
1 liter of milk has 50g carb, 30g protein, vitamine A, D, calcium, and some more phosphate and B vitamins (cant remember which ones)
And dont misunderstand the breast milk or the baby milk that they feed infants (or at least that is what they call it)
Mothers milk is a complete whole food for newly born babies only and the baby milk is a fortified powder that was designed to be a whole food for infants
so dont get it mixed up
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ive seen a lot of bodybuiulding videos and i noticedd the pros like to have a shake after-but i hear so many people talk about eatinbg the whole foods posst workout-like they will carry chciken rice to the gym in cooler and eat that-i dunno about that cuz 1) i feel not hungry after lifting heavy and 2)isnt you susposed to take advantage of the window of opportinuty post workout-so like if i eat a big meal of say steaka nd potatoes ill take so long to digesta nd it will be worthless??? but there have been times wher ei will take aminos psot and then go eat ssuhi-i felt good after and i felt good the days after all recovered and stuff-what do yall think?
thank you...
did anyone realise, that the camera doesen t follow the guys to the gym toillets, where the shoot their insulin and drink their sugar-shakes
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If you know how GH is produced in the body you would have understood the study
the amount you your protein intake effect the production of GH in your body and certain amino acids lead to increase of GH production thus IGF-1
however I never said wait 2 hours after a workout
if you are a body builder or an athlete for that matter
you should stick to a 3 hour meal interval regimen and usually when you finish your workout the time has come to have your next meal
As per the study: (CHO; 1.5 g/kg body wt), protein (PRO; 1.38 g/kg body wt)
meaning for a 200klbs they took (135g CHO and 124g PRO)
And about the study the same can be said if you take a sold meal (instead of a supplement)
although you have to keep in mind that insulin and GH work back to back
meaning if one is low the other is hi
so as soon as insulin is released the GH production is reduced
You will get cortisol in your system only if your food intake is less than what you require
which is hard to do or shouldnt be done by an athlete (specially if you eat every 3 hours)
And I never said that a post workout shake/meal is not beneficial
what I am saying is that it is overrated (something that has been done to the community by the supp. companies and the mags)
If a person cant eat post workout than he is better of with the shake but this has nothing to do with facts and how the body works ...
I am not here to argue with tbombz or Fatpanda
this is what I have to say and I guess I always try to deliver facts that make sense in a simple way
and a lot appreciate it on the board
About milk
heres a reply I posted on another board:
Whey protein is cheap considering the amount of protein you get and cause the price of whey has gone up nearly 100% in the past couple of years
so has everything else I still think it is a very good choice
but you do the calculation according to the prices in your country
We all know we get best source of protein powders from milk (whey and it various filtration versions) however milk is only milk has less than 40% of the milk is actually protein and only 20% of that protein is whey
so only 7.5% of the total skim milks caloric intake is whey. Meaning only 2.25g of whey protein in a liter of skimmed milk
The carbohydrate of milk is called lactose and some people cant tolerate it and have allergy against it ... and the body doesnt have the proper enzymes to make full use of it (converting all of it to glucose and making it available as energy source)
If I remember right
1 liter of milk has 50g carb, 30g protein, vitamine A, D, calcium, and some more phosphate and B vitamins (cant remember which ones)
And dont misunderstand the breast milk or the baby milk that they feed infants (or at least that is what they call it)
Mothers milk is a complete whole food for newly born babies only and the baby milk is a fortified powder that was designed to be a whole food for infants
so dont get it mixed up
i really do not understand the point you are trying to make here ???
i understand completely how the body produces GH, how it interacts with insulin - and that study ::)
you disareed that a post workout shake is any more benificial than a normal meal 2 or 3 hours after a workout. Although you admitted that a shake can and will be absorbed quicker than a solid meal. in fact you commented that there was no need for proten immediately post workout due to it not being absorbed immediately. I posted a study that showed that a post w/o shake with protein increases gh release - despite the increased insulin release. That was not noted with the intake of carbs alone.
I really cannot fathom that you feel there is no cortisol release in the body following a workout as long as you eat every 3 hours ??? - perhaps if you are juiced to the gills - is this what you mean? or does this advice apply to naturals too ?
Studies show that cortisol increases after around 40 mins in a workout and keeps increasing untill insulin stops it - waiting 2 or 3 hours for a meal solid or not will delay insulin's potent anticatabolic effects, reduce recovery, reduce immune function, increase inflamation, etc etc - this is very poor advice for bodybuilders.
also a solid meal post workout would take longer for insulin to be produced in the body - again allowing cortisol to rise longer than it should for optimal results.
A pre workout shake - would help however :)
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First you dropped the shake and no difference, then you re-added it and it made a difference? Sounds strange.
And how exactly did you determine the improved changes in body composition?
no i said when i initially dropped the post workout shake i didnt NOTICE any difference. i idnt say there was no difference. when i added it back in i noticed that not having indeed did make a difference. mainly the difference was slower rate of growth and recovery and strength gains. all of those things picked up the pace when i added it back in, and i realized that they had all slowed down a bit when i had taken the shake out.
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when did I say a meal 3 hour after workout is more beneficial that an immediate shake???
If you do a 3 hour interval meal plan
you will of course eat 2 hours before a training and train for like an hour
but then it is time for your next meal (and if your not that your whole plan is wrong)
what I said is u dont have to have a shake to get the max gains
cortisol is released when blood sugar gets low
so in a fortified diet plan that should happen
specially if u are trying to gain size
the study you posted doesnt back up anything as you still are comparing hi and low protein and it doesnt have to do anything with post workout
where I say a decent meal post work out which means a meal with sufficient amount of protein and carbs
and you have to very selective in that to get the optimal result
and over 100g protein a meal is way too much as you r study dictates
And if you read the study right
it says immediately and 2 h after a standardized weight-training workout meaning both group were given supplements at the same timing (post and after 2 hours) the study was to prove that higher protein was better for recovery
which is not our case here
What I said applies for both natural and juiced
unless ur on insulin
where again you have to align your plan with your objectives and type of insulin used
You think that you have to release a certain amount of insulin to stop certain amount of cortisol
no
this is not the way it is done
when u eat a meal insulin starts to get released thus stopping cortisol (the amount doesnt matter) and again as I said cortisol is released (in this particular case) only when blood sugar is low
and I mean very low
which shouldnt occur if your plan is right
however it will occur if you dont eat every 3 hour for an athletes
and as I said a meal should be eaten after a workout
but the whole 3 hour windo or immediate post workout shake is overrated
Fatpanda
I am still doubting you level of seriousness in this subject as I dont know if you are reading my stuff and understanding or trying intentionally to reply and put words in my mouth that I didnt say
as your last reply was all drifted from what I said in my last 3 or 4 replies
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dude aliamini... ugh... stop it.. :-X
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I've been drinking a shake, right after training, which consists of 100% Hydrolyzed Whey Isolate, which is the fasted, most predigested form of Whey around. The problem in the past with Whey Hydrolosates is that they are bitter and have a disgusting taste, which is why if you see them included in a formula, they usually only comprise a small percentage of the mix. I found this product on the net called Proto Whey and they have a unique process of flavoring the product so that it actually tastes great, and it's 100% Hydrolyzed. Definitely seeing a bit of progress in terms of maintaining more size as I'm leaning out on my diet.
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when did I say a meal 3 hour after workout is more beneficial that an immediate shake???
If you do a 3 hour interval meal plan
you will of course eat 2 hours before a training and train for like an hour
but then it is time for your next meal (and if your not that your whole plan is wrong)
what I said is u dont have to have a shake to get the max gains
cortisol is released when blood sugar gets low
so in a fortified diet plan that should happen
specially if u are trying to gain size
the study you posted doesnt back up anything as you still are comparing hi and low protein and it doesnt have to do anything with post workout
where I say a decent meal post work out which means a meal with sufficient amount of protein and carbs
and you have to very selective in that to get the optimal result
and over 100g protein a meal is way too much as you r study dictates
And if you read the study right
it says immediately and 2 h after a standardized weight-training workout meaning both group were given supplements at the same timing (post and after 2 hours) the study was to prove that higher protein was better for recovery
which is not our case here
What I said applies for both natural and juiced
unless ur on insulin
where again you have to align your plan with your objectives and type of insulin used
You think that you have to release a certain amount of insulin to stop certain amount of cortisol
no
this is not the way it is done
when u eat a meal insulin starts to get released thus stopping cortisol (the amount doesnt matter) and again as I said cortisol is released (in this particular case) only when blood sugar is low
and I mean very low
which shouldnt occur if your plan is right
however it will occur if you dont eat every 3 hour for an athletes
and as I said a meal should be eaten after a workout
but the whole 3 hour windo or immediate post workout shake is overrated
Fatpanda
I am still doubting you level of seriousness in this subject as I dont know if you are reading my stuff and understanding or trying intentionally to reply and put words in my mouth that I didnt say
as your last reply was all drifted from what I said in my last 3 or 4 replies
I am serious - i have no clue what you are talking about. I think we are having a communication problem.
you first said the whole 3 hour post workout /anabolic window is a myth - i disagreed - then you also said its the best time to put nutrients onto the muscle due to the increased blood flow- so which is it ?
I realise you know some things or you wouldn't be a prep guru, however some of the things you say are so behind current research that it amazes me.
your insistance that cortisol will not be released as long as you eat every 3 hours is astounding :o
even if there is circulating blood sugar - the muscle will absorb it as an rapid rate during and after excercise and clear it - hence allowing cortisol to increase - and keep on increasing untill insulin is produced.
your complete lack or acknowledgement on the benefits of a post workout shake is also astounding :o
there have been loads of sudies done on this - are you telling me you disagree with them all ???
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no i said when i initially dropped the post workout shake i didnt NOTICE any difference. i idnt say there was no difference. when i added it back in i noticed that not having indeed did make a difference. mainly the difference was slower rate of growth and recovery and strength gains. all of those things picked up the pace when i added it back in, and i realized that they had all slowed down a bit when i had taken the shake out.
I don't understand, what's the difference between not noticing any change and no actual change? If there is such a difference, your method of determination if something works or not for you is completely arbitrary IMO. My method is as objective as possible: I watch the change in body composition with and without a certain method. My experience is: there is no significant difference between having a shake or not, and there is also no significant difference whether you have a post workout meal or not. Wait a few years and science will come up with a theory that matches my experience.
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I don't understand, what's the difference between not noticing any difference and no actual difference? If there is such a difference, your method of determination if something works or not for you is completely arbitrary IMO. My method is as objective as possible: I watch the change in body composition with and without a certain method. My experience is: there is no significant difference between having a shake or not, and there is also no significant difference whether you have a post workout meal or not. Wait a few years and science will come up with a theory that matches my experience.
wave - the studies all disagree with you.
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wave - the studies all disagree with you.
Current studies, maybe.
But is there one serious study on the purpose of bodybuilding, namely body composition change?
And what exactly is your method of determination if post workout shakes/meals are necessary for you? Do you only rely on the studies?
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Current studies, maybe.
But is there one serious study on the purpose of bodybuilding, namely body composition change?
And what exactly is your method of determination if post workout shakes/meals are necessary for you? Do you only rely on the studies?
yes - the studies show that pre or post w/o meals decrease muscle breakdown, decrease in cortisol, increases in protein synthesis and GH responce - all leading to a more favourable muscle mass amount.
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let's look at it like this :D
having a C+P shake = recovering quickly
having a meal = recovering slower and takes some time before you have fully recovered.
so if someone gave you 1 million $...
would you want to have all of it now? or would you want to wait and get it piece by piece over a longer period of time?
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yes - the studies show that pre or post w/o meals decrease muscle breakdown, decrease in cortisol, increases in protein synthesis and GH responce - all leading to a more favourable muscle mass amount.
Is there a study that directly measured the change in body composition? Because that's the only thing important to a bodybuilder. This would mean that the study would show an actual difference in body composition when on the exact same amount of macros over a day, and the only difference between subjects is that certain macros are consumed in a certain time intervall after training or not. Please show me a reference to such a study.
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let's look at it like this :D
having a C+P shake = recovering quickly
having a meal = recovering slower and takes some time before you have fully recovered.
so if someone gave you 1 million $...
would you want to have all of it now? or would you want to wait and get it piece by piece over a longer period of time?
I would rather do what's convenient if it doesn't make a significant difference.
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During the training shake is whole different thing
you have to understand that the type and amount of protein in that shake is totally different (so you dont use whey protein in that)
so u can have a during training shake and then a solid meal
that is what I recommend but if u dont get a solid meal post workout a shake would be another option
Again back to the studies
you read that in magazines
and as I said the purpose of advertising is to sell more
I fully acknowledge the benefits of a post work out nutrients
so I never said that dont eat post workout
I am saying it is not essential to have a SHAKE
a decent balanced meal will do the trick (it has to be a proper meal
again dont get it wrong)
post work out yes
but 3 hour window NO
some think that during these 3 hours anything that u eat will go in your muscle and you have to eat big big big BIG BIG BIG meals to replenish your muscles
which is totally a myth
my thought on cortisol/insulin are still the same
as all of this was market via magazines and when a study is done on a regular person
its a person who eats 3 meals + maybe a post workout shake ... so it doesnt apply on bodybuilder
or at least those who do it right
I am not disagreeing with researches ... but I am saying you got to understand the researches well and know the source
and whom were the people that the test was carried on
magazines will post only what they want you to buy
so do the supplements
If you have the time
do a research on how hi fructose corn syrup got so popular and its relation with diabetes and insulin manufacturers
that is an interesting story
to know how the nutrition/diet market is working parallel with governments and some hi profile people/organizations
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Is there a study that directly measured the change in body composition? Because that's the only thing important to a bodybuilder. This would mean that the study would show an actual difference in body composition when on the exact same amount of macros over a day, and the only difference between subjects is that certain macros are consumed in a certain time intervall after training or not. Please show me a reference to such a study.
i have read a study like this - i'll try to find it among my collection - and post it for you.
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During the training shake is whole different thing
you have to understand that the type and amount of protein in that shake is totally different (so you don't use whey protein in that)
so u can have a during training shake and then a solid meal
that is what I recommend but if u don't get a solid meal post workout a shake would be another option
Again back to the studies
you read that in magazines
and as I said the purpose of advertising is to sell more
I fully acknowledge the benefits of a post work out nutrients
so I never said that don't eat post workout
I am saying it is not essential to have a SHAKE
a decent balanced meal will do the trick (it has to be a proper meal
again don't get it wrong)
post work out yes
but 3 hour window NO
some think that during these 3 hours anything that u eat will go in your muscle and you have to eat big big big BIG BIG BIG meals to replenish your muscles
which is totally a myth
my thought on cortisol/insulin are still the same
as all of this was market via magazines and when a study is done on a regular person
it's a person who eats 3 meals + maybe a post workout shake ... so it doesn't apply on bodybuilder
or at least those who do it right
I am not disagreeing with researches ... but I am saying you got to understand the researches well and know the source
and whom were the people that the test was carried on
magazines will post only what they want you to buy
so do the supplements
If you have the time
do a research on how hi fructose corn syrup got so popular and its relation with diabetes and insulin manufacturers
that is an interesting story
to know how the nutrition/diet market is working parallel with governments and some hi profile people/organizations
aliamini - you said the post workout window was a myth, now you are saying it is not - I'm glad you realise myself and candy were right 8)
your thoughts on insulin/cortisol may be the same but it is still wrong - can you show me a study that proves your argument that cortisol is non existant when eating meals every 3 hours - and it's all just magazine hype and myths to sell supplements. It sounds like you are getting into xfiles territory here :-\
cortisol's responce to exercise is well studied and widely excepted, as is insulin's effects on it :-\
i can assure you i have not read these studies in magazines ;D i have them in pdf format on my hard drive - hundreds of them. I have read - and re read them many times. I can also assure you that i am not easily impressed by hype or marketing for any product or recommendation. If it does not produce significant effects i disregard it - proper pre/post workout supplementation does. Oh and for the record i do not have a super shake pre/post workout. i have milk or choc milk - nice easy cheap and effective.
as for hi fructose corn syrup - it has nothing to do with our discussion here - i see no need to research it - i am aware of the damage it does.
it seems to me that understandably your opinion is significantly skewed by your work with steroid users. While mine is skewed toward a natural view.
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aliamini - you said the post workout window was a myth, now you are saying it is not - I'm glad you realise myself and candy were right 8)
your thoughts on insulin/cortisol may be the same but it is still wrong - can you show me a study that proves your argument that cortisol is non existant when eating meals every 3 hours - and it's all just magazine hype and myths to sell supplements. It sounds like you are getting into xfiles territory here :-\
cortisol's responce to exercise is well studied and widely excepted, as is insulin's effects on it :-\
i can assure you i have not read these studies in magazines ;D i have them in pdf format on my hard drive - hundreds of them. I have read - and re read them many times. I can also assure you that i am not easily impressed by hype or marketing for any product or recommendation. If it does not produce significant effects i disregard it - proper pre/post workout supplementation does. Oh and for the record i do not have a super shake pre/post workout. i have milk or choc milk - nice easy cheap and effective.
as for hi fructose corn syrup - it has nothing to do with our discussion here - i see no need to research it - i am aware of the damage it does.
it seems to me that understandably your opinion is significantly skewed by your work with steroid users. While mine is skewed toward a natural view.
When did I say the 3 hours is not a myth
I am still saying the 3 hours window is not crucial
ur mixing the whole concept and trying to change fact to put make me look wrog
well keep it up
cause I aint got time for this
and I am sure you gained a lot form this thread (if ur smart)
However I get back to my old statement
I am trying to reason and you are trying to put words in my mouth
with the 3 hour post work out meal and with the 3 hour window now
I really dont have time to argue on that
if u r happy with your pdf researches than good for your
stick to what you do best
And the HFCS research would have shown you how researches are done and for what reason ... so it was relevant
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Is there a study that directly measured the change in body composition? Because that's the only thing important to a bodybuilder. This would mean that the study would show an actual difference in body composition when on the exact same amount of macros over a day, and the only difference between subjects is that certain macros are consumed in a certain time intervall after training or not. Please show me a reference to such a study.
Wave read this:
http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.org/conference_presentations/ISSNConference_200606_Cribb.pdf
Read about all 3 trials - however trial 3 proves without question that pre/post workout nutrition increases muscle mass, strength, and reduces fat.
Aliamini should read it too it seems ;D
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When did I say the 3 hours is not a myth
I am still saying the 3 hours window is not crucial
ur mixing the whole concept and trying to change fact to put make me look wrog
well keep it up
cause I aint got time for this
and I am sure you gained a lot form this thread (if ur smart)
However I get back to my old statement
I am trying to reason and you are trying to put words in my mouth
with the 3 hour post work out meal and with the 3 hour window now
I really dont have time to argue on that
if u r happy with your pdf researches than good for your
stick to what you do best
And the HFCS research would have shown you how researches are done and for what reason ... so it was relevant
ali - i am not trying to put words into your mouth. I am however struggling to understand your points - perhaps that is where the problem lies.
i think pre/post workout supplementation is very important for optimal muscle mass and performance.
i think the countless studies that have been done on it shows this - if you research yourself and type tipton and protein into google or pubmed and read you will agree with me.
i think that solid food pre or post will also work - although not optimally.
i think you are wrong regarding many things - none more so that the no cortisol theory ::) however i may be misreading or misunderstanding your points ::) nice avoidance of proving it by the way ;)
Hope this helps :)
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I am not avoiding anything
you are mesmerized by the internet researches and think everything is on the net
and they are all correct 100% only cause they are on the net
a lot of the researches have been proven to be wrong so I dont think I can change anything in this matter
I posted my theories
where I have access to research labs that can do specific studies for me where it is applicable to body builders
it is mainly for well being and maintaining youth
but hey that is the trick to it
any way I dont have time for all of this
remind me again of this subject in mid or late November and I will be more than happy to share discuss it again
And if you are a MAX-OT, Skip La Cour or AST fan that I cant change your mind
you think that everyone is wrong and only you are write
that is the way MAX OT was marketed
and I saw the DVD and was really nonsense
specially the nutrition part
these thing are ok if you want to look good
but not get serious in bodybuilding
maybe that has been our misunderstanding
i was talking about really bodybuilding and you were talking about looking good
regardless using drugs or not
I cant read what you posted as I said I dont have enough time
however I will go through it if I ge the time in November
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I am not avoiding anything
you are mesmerized by the internet researches and think everything is on the net
and they are all correct 100% only cause they are on the net
a lot of the researches have been proven to be wrong so I dont think I can change anything in this matter
I posted my theories
where I have access to research labs that can do specific studies for me where it is applicable to body builders
it is mainly for well being and maintaining youth
but hey that is the trick to it
any way I dont have time for all of this
remind me again of this subject in mid or late November and I will be more than happy to share discuss it again
And if you are a MAX-OT, Skip La Cour or AST fan that I cant change your mind
you think that everyone is wrong and only you are write
that is the way MAX OT was marketed
and I saw the DVD and was really nonsense
specially the nutrition part
these thing are ok if you want to look good
but not get serious in bodybuilding
maybe that has been our misunderstanding
i was talking about really bodybuilding and you were talking about looking good
regardless using drugs or not
I cant read what you posted as I said I dont have enough time
however I will go through it if I ge the time in November
hahahahaha
I am not a max-ot /skip lacour or ast fan ??? i do not own the dvd either. However i do agree with heavy weights with low reps - as that is backed by science as being the most efficient means of building muscle mass.
is that all you have got to discredit my opinion, comments and posted studies ::)
if you want to change my mind - try posting a study that backs up your incredible claims. Not comments on conspiracies of the evil supplement companies ::)
it should be easy for you, if as you say you run your own studies ::)
see you in november :-*
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Wave read this:
http://www.sportsnutritionsociety.org/conference_presentations/ISSNConference_200606_Cribb.pdf
Read about all 3 trials - however trial 3 proves without question that pre/post workout nutrition increases muscle mass, strength, and reduces fat.
Aliamini should read it too it seems ;D
OK, I read the study. It suggests that after 10 weeks of training,
- Group 1 ("correct" timing) was able to gain 2.7kg of muscle mass while losing 0.2kg of fat,
- Group 2 ("incorrect" timing) was able to gain 1.5kg of muscle mass while gaining 0.2kg of fat.
The subjects in both groups seem to be genetic freaks of epic proportion. Maybe I'm a hard-gainer, but I have never in my life been able to gain 2.7kg of muscle mass within 10 weeks while losing fat. But maybe I misunderstood something.
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I am not discrediting your comments
I am just telling you think
if you dont want to change your opinion that you never will
These are not conspiracies
this is the way big companies are run
u still have to keep in mind experience and what you actually see works compare to the researches and how other things might work even better than the research or for a certain goal
you dont have to follow studies religiously
But hey ... who am I to change your mind
I am just posting for other to benefit
while replying to you
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Maybe I'm a hard-gainer, but I have never in my life been able to gain 2.7kg of muscle mass within 10 weeks while losing fat. But maybe I misunderstood something.
you don't believe in pre/post workout supplementation either :-\
but......perhaps that info ( exactly the proof you asked for) + the loads of positive comments on this thread + countless positive comments by people all over the internet + countless studies that back up pre/post workout supplementation = enough to convince you to at least try it yourself :-\ and not ignore the overwhelming evidence.
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you don't believe in pre/post workout supplementation either :-\
but......perhaps that info ( exactly the proof you asked for) + the loads of positive comments on this thread + countless positive comments by people all over the internet + countless studies that back up pre/post workout supplementation = enough to convince you to at least try it yourself :-\ and not ignore the overwhelming evidence.
As I said, I have tried, and it made no difference for me. I give you credit for coming up with a study. I really wasn't aware of that one actually exists. See other thread for what I think about it.
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Well, I used to drink a whey isolate shake after training and also vitargo (carb source), did notice a little extra fullness. But now with the Whey hydrolosate after training, I'm holding more muscle while dieting down than before. I assure you that in the next few months, Hydrolyzed whey will be the new hot supplement. The protein is already enzymatically reduced to Micropeptides and requires virtually no digestion. The nitrogen retention is way beyond whey isolate per gram of protein.
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do you have the link to where you found the product?
Doesnt Dave Palumbo put out a similar product??
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do you have the link to where you found the product?
Doesnt Dave Palumbo put out a similar product??
Here is some info. I order it from Amazon.com mainly because I buy everything from them.
http://www.bnrg.com/faq.htm
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More info. It's the only protein powder I've used that doesn't bloat my stomach as well. I don't know if Palumbo makes a similar one or not.
http://www.bnrg.com/protowhey.htm
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thanks man, I might have to check out the price on Amazon and give it a shot
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www.trueprotein.com has high grade Hydrolyzed Whey Protein for only $10.79 per lb. ;)
<<<<<<<<<<< 5% discount code. 8)
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hahaha...thanks dizzle
how's that stuff taste?
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hahaha...thanks dizzle
how's that stuff taste?
better than that 'other' protein he's been swallowing recently :-X
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wow! thank u for all the help guys!
im always wondering about somethings
i used to mix my whey isolate w/ waxy maize but then i learn that that defeats whole purpose of waxy maize-so after reading lots! i began having my waxy and leucine and bcaa rigfht post workout then half hour i have whey isolate shake
and pete nice-dave palumbo make isolyze whey isolate shake-i use and its very tasty-good yield too-27g protein in 29g scoop!
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hahaha...thanks dizzle
how's that stuff taste?
Believe me, if you get regular hydrolyzed whey, it's the worst tasting stuff you've ever drank. As far as I know, Proto Whey is the only company that has a process of flavoring it so that it tastes good. But if you find another one that tastes decent, let me know.
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Here is what the trueprotein website says about their Hydrolyzed Whey. If you want to save a few bucks and try and choke it down..go ahead.
Warning with our High Grade, this protein possesses a very bitter taste, that is definitely not for the faint at heart. You may want to order this separately to gauge how much you are effected by the taste. But remember, the benefits far out way the 2 minutes of the bad taste in your mouth.
Questions or comments on this product? Please feel free to post them in the True Protein Forums!
http://forums.trueprotein.com/
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Very good topic and issue.
We all will wait to Ali Amini to come back in November to discuss this issue with Fatpanda.
We all want to know the truth about nutrition and supplement.
Thank to all of you Ali and Fatpanda.
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Very good topic and issue.
We all will wait to Ali Amini to come back in November to discuss this issue with Fatpanda.
We all want to know the truth about nutrition and supplement.
Thank to all of you Ali and Fatpanda.
:)
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I had some free time last night so I decided to clear this issue:
Facts:
If you eat 3 meals a day and train then introduce a protein shake post workout
you will likely to get more muscular after a period of time
the reason is not post workout shake
it is the increase in the amount of protein intake per day
That is how people get muscular and regular athlete should take in 1g/lbs of body mass (or lean body mass) body builders tend to take more according to their goals
If you eat 5-6 meals a day they will be abut 3 hours apart
which will keep nutrients constant and in the blood
and with blood sugar at a balanced level through out the day it will be very hard for the body to release cortisol
cause usually when it is time for your other meal you still havent fully digested the previous meal
and that is exactly what happens during training
while you should train 1 ½ - 2 hour after a meal you will still be digesting that meal while you are training
meaning you will not lack any nutrient to release cortisol
however when you wake up in the morning and slept for like 8 hours and didnt eat for 9 or so
this is when you have cortisol released
yet if you had a very big meal the night before
you wont get cortisol and you will wake up and feel your stomach is still full of food
This is all for a person who is eating right
not only if he thinks he is eating right but rather an actual correct bodybuilding diet
and that is usually excludes fructose and lactose
cause the body cant use either of them as a course of energy
For sustaining protein synthesis BCAA, Lucien or the more potent HMB should be used
increasing amount of protein will only lead to increase in BUN (blood urea nitrogen) & uric acid to name a few
however HMB at a sufficient amount has proven to reduce not meaning it hold the protein synthesis cause BUN is the protein waste
meaning less BUN indicates less protein has been broken down
Studies:
As I said before
plus
you should know the complete diet of the subject whom have been tested
if 200lb guy thinks he is athletic and doctors tell him so
while he eats only 100g protein per day
he will definitely make gain when take an additional 100 post work out or for that matter any time of the day
has anyone done a study on a person who actually eats 6 balanced meals
and not just by saying that but by actually posting his diet
and then carry on the actual test??? Most of the people who think the are eating right they dont
and amount and type through out a day is more important that timing
once they achieve that
then you they should try to try different thing with timing and certain types of supplements
My recommendation:
First of all try to make you diet right and eat sufficient amount of protein ... and take out all the fructose and lactose from your diet
then if you want to have a shake post workout then fine
but keep in mind post workout shake is different that during workout shake
and if you are actually looking to loose body far you should stop the glucose and all the fast acting carbs + limit the amount of total carb that you eat
glucose tends to bloat you stomach and make it very hard to trim body fat
so in this case you figure what is the best choise for a post work out
they shakes were designed for people who cant eat
so when you have the appetite and can eat
why go for a shake
again the protein and carb will be constant if you diet is right
Take a protein shake with fast acting carb post workout:
When you stop training
its the beginning of the end of your super blood flow and pump
so if you were to take a fast acting carb with creating and some form of amino acids
that should have been done when your blood flow was at its peak
so best timing for that would be ½ way through your workout
that is the time when your red blood cells are rushing in your muscle carrying oxygen and all types of nutrients
so that is the ultimate time (which actually is logical and makes sense) to take the fast acting carb
the next meals time has already due by end of your training and you still havent digested you previous meal completely
so it wont be an issue if the post workout meal took some time to digest
beef itself take around 24 hour to completely digest and get stored
so if you are eating beef and chicken every day
again with a proper diet and sufficient amount of total carb and protein for your goal
you will be sake
I am not here to prove anything ... I just want everyone to makes use of the info as I am not marketing any brand or franchise
but read with an open mind and dont get hypnotized by ads or studies that has been done years ago or by people who think just cause they are doctors they know everything
again the experiment subject are a big part in that
just cause some one is good at a sport or muscular doesnt mean he is eating right or know what he is doing
DX
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yet if you had a very big meal the night before
you wont get cortisol and you will wake up and feel your stomach is still full of food
What do you think about those who are saying the we should mix whey protein with skim milk to have a casein protein which talk time to digest during sleeping time? Do you this milk is just for babies? ;D
take out all the fructose and lactose from your diet
Can you be more specific about what you mean by fructose and lactose? Do you mean that we can't have a banana after workout ??
post workout shake is different that during workout shake
Can you give us more info about the difference? Do you believe in during workout shake like Milos does?
so best timing for that would be ½ way through your workout
that is the time when your red blood cells are rushing in your muscle carrying oxygen and all types of nutrients
What's exactly gonna go to your muscle? as you said the whey protein takes 40 min to completely digest. I did not get it.
Thanks bro Ali