Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Vince B on October 19, 2008, 03:52:59 PM
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I started lifting weights in January 1959, almost 50 years ago. In those days, the Weider business was stationed in Montreal and we saw the current Mr Canada's in the Weider muscle magazines. Joe took the publishing and supplement company to New Jersey and finally ended up in Woodland Hills in Los Angeles. Ben stayed in Montreal to run the IFBB. The pair eventually saw the IFBB dominate professional bodybuilding. They used to compete with Bob Hoffman and his empire at York who controlled the AAU bodybuilding and weightlifting contests. In those days, the Mr America title was second only to Mr Universe in London. When Bob Hoffman died that left no real competition in North America and the IFBB stepped in to take over bodybuilding. Oscar Heidenstamn also passed away and the prestige of the NABBA Universe diminished. Somehow the Mr Olympia became the top contest and that is an interesting phenomenon. It shows what marketing can do. I mean, what contest can be 'higher' than a Mr Universe! Joe conceived a contest that allowed all the top guys to compete. In retrospect, that hasn't been a blessing to the bodybuilders. What happened was that we had a few champions dominate the sport and some won several times while others missed out. Many of these contests were controversial and critics claimed that there was too much politics in the sport. Perhaps it would have been better if we had a new Mr Olympia every year. The Weiders forgot that the AAU had to make a new rule in 1941 to prevent John Grimek from winning the Mr America every year.
Ben was an authority on Napoleon. Now we know why he set the IFBB in Napoleonic fashion. The organization was run like the military. Everyone followed the leader and Ben made sure he was life president. This happened a few decades ago to prevent popular champions like Serge Nubret from being elected to be president. People get appointed to vital positions and many cannot be removed by local chapters of the IFBB. We had a system where so-called regional Vice-presidents were appointed to run the IFBB contests in their areas. Many of the first Vice-presidents were agents for Weider products. How this qualified these men to be IFBB judges is a mystery. I suppose Ben required absolute loyalty in return for rewards to the party faithful. Even the athletes rep is appointed! The main thing is that control must be maintained. What resulted was a closed organization with little flexibility to change.
Ben had a vision to make bodybuilding part of the Olympic Games. He didn't live to see that happen. While he was positioning bodybuilding as a sport he adopted a system of judging contests that resembled other sports. There were rules drawn up to control illegal substances. It all looked good on paper. However, the Olympic movement wasn't buying what Ben presented. That was inevitable when you think about how long Ben and Joe took to be the dominant force in bodybuilding. They literally had to conquer the other organizations. The legacy was that they feared that if they enforced the drug rules then the top guys would be tempted to go elsewhere where testing wasn't implemented. Thus, the sorry state in the sport today. Rules galore but few that are followed to the letter.
It has been said that those who cannot change their philosophy will take their mistakes to their graves. I wonder, now that Ben is gone, what will happen to this once noble sport? Instead of being an amazing thing to have a large, muscular body it is now associated with using banned substances. How on earth did this happen? Well, Ben ruled like Napoleon so the buck stops there. The trouble is that the machine will perpetuate what he established and his system of loyal followers will continue. The IFBB resembles the Catholic Church and not a sporting organization. Instead of having the very best involved we find a system of rewarding lesser individuals who do what they are told. That is clearly not the way to generate excellence. People complain all the time about so many things but nothing much is ever done for the athletes. It really is a disgrace the way the sport is dangerous and unhealthy. The public are not fooled. They know what is going on and there is little respect for the champions. I am not talking about the natural movement which is much better.
Ben didn't like what he saw evolving in women's bodybuilding so made sure that Bev Francis was never Ms Olympia. We saw that in the film, Pumping Iron II, The Women. Ben was there directing the judges to make sure only 'good' things happened in the sport. Rachel McLish won in Las Vegas in 1983 while the vastly superior Bev was placed an incredible 8th! Ben foolishly allowed silicon to be part of the female arsenal and look at the result today. Most people do not care to view the Ms Olympia and that should say a lot. If you don't have the right rules and criteria then it can lead to disaster. That is one legacy that Ben and the IFBB cannot be proud of.
I think it ironical that in his final year Ben was given a state honour in California by Arnold. Ben and Joe rewarded loyal followers all the time. Silver plaques for loyal supporters. Everything was official and sanctioned!
The Weiders were always shrewd businessmen. They don't personally give prize money to winners. Well, the first Mr Olympia, Larry Scott, received a silver plate and $1000. Big deal. The promoters and sponsors now finance the prize money. The promoters even have to pay the IFBB a high fee to put on these shows! The lads from Montreal were successful beyond their dreams and received some $350,000,000 for their magazine empire. If only the champions of the past shared in this windfall. Nope, we saw hapless former King of Bodybuilders pass away recently in a nursing home looking unblessed with resources. How many times did we see Clancy's photos in those magazines? There were many bitter champions who didn't get rich even though they were featured often in the magazines. Ben was part of the business empire.
I give credit for what people do. Ben and Joe were achievers. They did it their way. I doubt we will see their kind again in the Irongame. Does anyone think of Joe as being a Canadian? Well, he hasn't lived in Canada for a very long time. Ben remained French Canadian and stayed in his beloved Montreal. I smile now when I remember how Ben claimed that bodybuilding was good for nation building! The main thing they built was an empire that made them rich.
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One of the best posts in recent time . Well said Vince.
Everyone kisses their ass we know why .
People should be allowed to voice their oppinion .
Earlier today Ron warned me to stop sayingbad things about ben ....
Sorry Ron ... I was just trying to tell the truth ... ::)
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I find that point on if they were to implement drug testing in the IFBB they feared the bodybuilders would go elsewhere very interesting.
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Goatboy, you will never know how much courage it takes to prepare for a contest and get up on stage and show everyone what you look like. You can't even post under your own name. John Grimek and Vince Gironda were examples of guys who said what was on their minds and bugger the consequences. They were real men. Too many of the flotsam here are anonymous nobodies with no backbone but who backstab like the clandestine cowards they are.
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somebody send that diatribe to Readers Digest so they can condense it for us!!
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Yes, how did those 'thongs' evolve? Again, where was Ben Weider? If one wouldn't be comfortable wearing a posing costume to the beach then perhaps that is not appropriate. No argument there.
However, the great Goatboy has not enough courage to post a photo of himself on Getbig to show that he actually trains with weights. Now, THAT takes courage!
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Vince i want to get huge ! When will you ever post your theory on hypertophy ?
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Hey Vince, you ever notice that your posts - regardless of topic - either start with 'I' or contain a lot of them!? ;)
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Joe Weider accumulated all the methods used by various champions or coined by the writers and editors and came up with the Weider methods. He didn't see what I found about training. I suppose that can happen when someone isn't right in there training away and personally seeking the answers.
Arthur Jones was right about the resistance to the truth. People prefer to cling to what they know instead of embracing what doesn't sound logical. If only muscles responded to logic! Daily in my gym I witness applied foolishness. Will there ever be an end to the false ideas in this activity? So many experts but few get big naturally. That pretty well sums up bodybuilding even today.
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Hey Vince, you ever notice that your posts - regardless of topic - either start with 'I' or contain a lot of them!? ;)
Is this is all you can say? No failed grade this time? I mean, WTF cares about what is posted on Getbig? It is a gossip AND opinion board, afterall.
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Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.
Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.
When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.
So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.
My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.
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Somebody with vision and passion for bodybuilding accompanied with a good business sense should be running the bodybuilding circuit. It seems the IFBB likes to operate well within it's 'comfort zone' and limits operations to a freemason style of clique. Every year several people have complaints about Paul Graham yet his reign over Australasian bodybuilding continues without question. The audiences are dieing off, the competitors are not there and there is a general distaste for the current competitions amongst the community. I understand Vince Basile's frustration in that regard.
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Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.
Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.
When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.
So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.
My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.
Vince....you just couldn't wait until they buried him to start talking shit could you?????
How about a little respect now and then once he's buried you can rant and rave about the regime
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opening post was way too long. i took one look at that shit and said 'im not reading that'
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Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.
Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.
When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.
So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.
My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.
It wasn't your "attitude and inability to kiss butt", which prevented you from being featured in a magazine or on one.....it was your lack of a physique, and any good reason to do an article on you.
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:D
got that right...
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Is it true, that Richards smacked Ben at a show, and was put on an eternal black list?
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got that right...
Ha, it's because he didn't take the DRUGS you did.
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The Weiders where the first that opened the doors for all races to compete in bodybuilding.
The IFFB is the best bodybuilding organisation ever, Ben was a great ambassador.
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Vince....you just couldn't wait until they buried him to start talking shit could you?????
How about a little respect now and then once he's buried you can rant and rave about the regime
Once a person has died that is it for him/her. The funeral is for those left behind who are alive.
You are just sore that you weren't the first to announce Ben's death so a sticky could have your name on it.
My deepest condolences for the Weider extended family.
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It was expected for the IFBB's favourite lapdog, Chick to come and chime in .
One thing more disgusting than the weiders is the assholes that kiss their ass aka Giani Versacce aka Capt America aka Big Cheesy
(http://members.aol.com/sotaproductions/Images/uriel4.jpg)
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No matter what, the Weiders used the bodybuilders for their own personal gain whether it be for fortune or fame. The BB's themselves are part of the reason why they didn't share in the money generated by THEIR images and endorsements. Any kind of rebellion or resistance against the Weiners a bodybuilder might execute put any kind of financial success out of reach. Arnold became the poster boy for the Weiners because he did what they wanted no matter what it was or how low it was. Arnold took advantage of that.
How much money do you think the Weiders ever paid Arnold for all the images and support he gave them to make their empire what it became. Everyone says how much the Weiners did for bodybuilding, but it was the bodybuilders who provided the fuel yet did not share in the fortune. Can someone find out how much did the IFBB ever pay a bodybuilder. Did Ben or Joe ever help a BB in need financially and I mean directly not indirectly.
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Will the media blame steroids ;D. And, has any major media covered this story like ESPN, CNN, MSNBC or anyone
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One of the best posts in recent time . Well said Vince.
Everyone kisses their ass we know why .
People should be allowed to voice their oppinion .
Earlier today Ron warned me to stop sayingbad things about ben ....
Sorry Ron ... I was just trying to tell the truth ... ::)
Yep, I just hope things start to change where the atheletes can voice their opinion (Lee Priest comes to mind) without being told "tow the line or else".
The old IFBB "rule" is coming to an end like it or not... better for the sport of bodybuilding, better for the atheletes, fans, promoters everyone.
The monopolists are /dev/null
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Vince is on a plane as we speak en route to the funeral armed with a camera and his painted tiger tee shirt.
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Yep, I just hope things start to change where the atheletes can voice their opinion (Lee Priest comes to mind) without being told "tow the line or else".
The old IFBB "rule" is coming to an end like it or not... better for the sport of bodybuilding, better for the atheletes, fans, promoters everyone.
The monopolists are /dev/null
The athletes can voice their opinions...being told you have to follow the same rules as everyone else doesn't constitute "towing the line" anymore than you following your company's rules (assuming you have a job)
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Vince is on a plane as we speak en route to the funeral armed with a camera and his painted tiger tee shirt.
It's for his own "BB related funerals" collection.
He plans on publishing a book on that topic. ;D
His other photo book "15 year old girls sucking my cock" could not be published.
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One of the best posts in recent time . Well said Vince.
Everyone kisses their ass we know why .
People should be allowed to voice their oppinion .
Earlier today Ron warned me to stop sayingbad things about ben ....
Sorry Ron ... I was just trying to tell the truth ... ::)
KILL YOURSELF.......
PLEASE
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It was expected for the IFBB's favourite lapdog, Chick to come and chime in .
One thing more disgusting than the weiders is the assholes that kiss their ass aka Giani Versacce aka Capt America aka Big Cheesy
(http://members.aol.com/sotaproductions/Images/uriel4.jpg)
You know whats really disgusting? Assholes like you trying to make it sound like you know what you're talking about when youre about as in the loop as Basile....
now scram, skinny...
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It was expected for the IFBB's favourite lapdog, Chick to come and chime in .
One thing more disgusting than the weiders is the assholes that kiss their ass aka Giani Versacce aka Capt America aka Big Cheesy
(http://members.aol.com/sotaproductions/Images/uriel4.jpg)
That picture is hilarious though...WTF is going on...
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You know whats really disgusting? Assholes like you trying to make it sound like you know what you're talking about when youre about as in the loop as Basile....
now scram, skinny...
THAT is sev perfectly described.
He sits in his romanian shithole, was a mediocre Tennis player with the worst genes for BB on this planet yet he brags about and shows of like he was Andre Agassi turned Arnold Schwarzenegger with Bill Gates' bank account and Hugh Hefner's mansion.
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Unfortunately, that sums up a lot of people in here.....
Look at what we have....idiots making jokes, accusations, talking like they knew Ben.
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Interesting thread. :)
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Vince,
1 - Why do you have an obsession with Lee Priest?
2 - Why do you type in that sissy font color? Are you racist? Black font isn't good enough?
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Vince,
1 - Why do you have an obsession with Lee Priest?
2 - Why do you type in that sissy font color? Are you racist? Black font isn't good enough?
Vince Basile in the past has said he likes to think of himself as a non-conformist. Even if things are right he will go against it. Dieting, training science, IFBB, gym business, taste in women(fat or young), clothing style, age of consent, funerals, hell even the colour and length of his posts.
You name it Vince does the opposite. Its almost a psychological disorder!
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So what if a guy, travels to strangers funerals, takes pictures of himself in cages, defends the morbidly obese, takes pictures of children on the beach and is obsessed with a black homosexual? That's normal, right?
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Vince Basile in the past has said he likes to think of himself as a non-conformist. Even if things are right he will go against it. Dieting, training science, IFBB, gym business, taste in women(fat or young), clothing style, age of consent, funerals hell even the colour and length of his posts.
You name it Vince does the opposite. Its almost a psychological disorder!
It's amazing what being fat, old and bitter can do to you. ;D
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You name it Vince does the opposite. Its almost a psychological disorder!
Sexuality too apparently.
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It's amazing what being fat, old and bitter can do to you. ;D
Did I forget to mention Vince defends extreme women's bodybuilding, despises bodybuilding drugs, only starts playing sports(athletics) at a masters levels rather than at a young age, lives in a warehouse instead of a house, makes his own gym equipment instead of outsourcing?
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maybe the nursing home should restrict his internet access?
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I always find it interesting that people love to complain about other's success, or just like to complain, but never nor try to help or do anything. Same as any other business.
Joe and Ben overcame great odds, great negativity, great racist bias to build up the IFBB, and other businesses, whether it be a magazine empire, a supplement empire and or an equipment empire. At the same time, while they were going up, others were going down for not having the correct sense nor business savvy to read the marketplace.
Hence, no matter what, there are always certain people who won't like someone else for their accomplishments.
But Ben did a lot, in many ways.
Yes, respect is due to someone who just passed away.
And yes, it is the end of the Weider era.
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sorry can sombody break it down for me?
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Appearantly Basile belongs to the sort that never made it. Whatever he did, he failed miserably.
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sorry can sombody break it down for me?
Sure I'll take this one..Seveste is a hating homo...
yeah...that about sums it up...have a nice day
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Vince,thanks for the fucking history lesson...........you sound very bitter.
Get in shape again,this is supposed to be a lifestyle!!
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You know whats really disgusting? Assholes like you trying to make it sound like you know what you're talking about when youre about as in the loop as Basile....
now scram, skinny...
you know chick ...
you don't have to be an illuminati insider to know that :
the weiders made a fortune literally and figurativelly fucking young hopefull bodybuilders up the ass
like you , they used bodies built by drugs to push worthless supplements .
they lied and lied some mnore just like you do ...
they created a monopoly which benefited only them
they have you as a lapdog to "represent " athletes ..what a joke ..
as far as scram skinny ... as skinny as I am compared to you, in real life I'd smack you silly for a comment like that ..but this is the internet so you can be mr 20 inch arm tough guy ;)
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you know chick ...
you don't have to be an illuminati insider to know that :
the weiders made a fortune literally and figurativelly fucking young hopefull bodybuilders up the ass
like you , they used bodies built by drugs to push worthless supplements .
they lied and lied some mnore just like you do ...
they created a monopoly which benefited only them
they have you as a lapdog to "represent " athletes ..what a joke ..
as far as scram skinny ... as skinny as I am compared to you, in real life I'd smack you silly for a comment like that ..but this is the internet so you can be mr 20 inch arm tough guy ;)
LMAO...He does have balls albeit in his mouth..he has balls...that shit was funny
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you know chick ...
you don't have to be an illuminati insider to know that :
the weiders made a fortune literally and figurativelly fucking young hopefull bodybuilders up the ass
like you , they used bodies built by drugs to push worthless supplements .
they lied and lied some mnore just like you do ...
they created a monopoly which benefited only them
they have you as a lapdog to "represent " athletes ..what a joke ..
as far as scram skinny ... as skinny as I am compared to you, in real life I'd smack you silly for a comment like that ..but this is the internet so you can be mr 20 inch arm tough guy ;)
LOL....please.....I'd knock your head clean off that stack of dimes you call a neck.
Another internet toughguy....
Bottom line is, you're talking out of your ass...you dont have a clue as to what you're talking about...you talk shit about bodybuilding and bodybuilders, yet stalk a bodybuilding site for hours on end...
LOSER
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LOL @ "stack of dimes" .
Fucking hilarious!! :)
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LOL @ "stack of dimes" .
Fucking hilarious!! :)
hahahaa, i love when Bob uses that one. ;D
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Me too,also the "you know two things........jack and shit"
! :)
Plus the old, "if you stood sideways and stuck out your tongue,you`d look like a zipper"! LOL :)
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LOL....please.....I'd knock your head clean off that stack of dimes you call a neck.
Another internet toughguy....
Bottom line is, you're talking out of your ass...you dont have a clue as to what you're talking about...you talk shit about bodybuilding and bodybuilders, yet stalk a bodybuilding site for hours on end...
LOSER
Brutal.
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Joe and Ben accomplished a lot and built an empire from very humble origins. My father, who was a champion golfer in the 50's and also the first golfer to lift heavy weights as well, appeared on one of Weider's early Muscle Builder magazines. Joe and Ben were always decent to me, in fact Joe invited me out to California when I was 15 and arranged for me to train with Mike Mentzer. He's always taken the time to talk to me or my dad at all the Olympias I've been to. In other words, we're people that he has nothing to benefit by, no business deals, or promotions, and still he's a decent guy. Yes, I know Joe was a ruthless businessman, so are most businessman that clawed their way up. And I've never seen any evidence of the Weider's supposed gayness and sodomizing upcoming champs. I find that hard to believe. Love them or hate them, their accomplishments deserve respect.
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Good post ^
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LOL....please.....I'd knock your head clean off that stack of dimes you call a neck.
Another internet toughguy....
Bottom line is, you're talking out of your ass...you dont have a clue as to what you're talking about...you talk shit about bodybuilding and bodybuilders, yet stalk a bodybuilding site for hours on end...
LOSER
::)
calm down Chick ... you are talking shit to save face...now you're a cage fighter ? :D :D :D
I love bodybuilding ad that's why I post here
I would also love to see bodybuilding freeof homo shit, narcotics and politics ....we need to get rid of the weider monopoly, get rid of the scums like you, lap dogs who sit/stand and bark on command ..
BITCH
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/spike286/BROWNNOSER.png)
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::)
calm down Chick ... you are talking shit to save face...now you're a cage fighter ? :D :D :D
I love bodybuilding ad that's why I post here
I would also love to see bodybuilding freeof homo shit, narcotics and politics ....we need to get rid of the weider monopoly, get rid of the scums like you, lap dogs who sit/stand and bark on command ..
BITCH
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/spike286/BROWNNOSER.png)
i suggest you stay your big mouth out of venice... remember teh chick has law enforcement training.. he would beat the dog shot out of you son...
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
"remember teh chick has law enforcement training"
(http://plutoniumblond.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/rkd5.jpg)
I'm fucking terrified .... :D
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
"remember teh chick has law enforcement training"
(http://plutoniumblond.files.wordpress.com/2006/09/rkd5.jpg)
I'm fucking terrified .... :D
you little as shit though...i would beat your ass off straight stregth size and aggression...chick has all that and formal training...your ass= kicked
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:D
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7MjzVIjPjc8/Rga7qu9afHI/AAAAAAAAAX0/N4VZk9NqdJA/s1600/mn_cops_three-thumb.jpg)
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:D
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7MjzVIjPjc8/Rga7qu9afHI/AAAAAAAAAX0/N4VZk9NqdJA/s1600/mn_cops_three-thumb.jpg)
i just see red x fucktard
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you little as shit though...i would beat your ass off straight stregth size and aggression...chick has all that and formal training...your ass= kicked
aahahahahha...that's rich ...
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So what if a guy, travels to strangers funerals, takes pictures of himself in cages, defends the morbidly obese, takes pictures of children on the beach and is obsessed with a black homosexual? That's normal, right?
LOL! Shows you guys read my posts and that is all that matters.
You know, I wonder about Chick being the appointed athletes' rep. There he was in his latest fashion outfit MCing the Olympia. WTH is that? How can he represent the athletes and do that job? He could have been backstage to make sure the competitors were okay. His role as a commentator on radio is also a conflict of interests.
I don't expect Chick to bite the hand that feeds him. The IFBB MO is based on the weakness in human nature. Long ago Ben and Joe concluded that muscleheads are dumbbells. Those who were not dopes could be manipulated to feed their egos. Give them trophies, features and covers in magazines, and titles and forget about money. The Weiders became master manipulators and recruited like-minded associates and stooges to help them. A blue blazer and official recognition kept them loyal. It is amazing how loyal the officials are. No one speaks out of line. How is that possible in such a controversial, subjective sport? Even the outspoken Steve W from NY has become an insider and tows the line. I never thought a guy who could challenge an audience to fight him would ever do that. Shows you what I know.
Bob has benefitted from associating with businesses involved in the sport. He has been groomed by JM to know what to say and when to say it. His background as an assistant sheriff comes in handy to deal with trespassers and people causing a public nuisance. He feels he is quite able to break the necks of hapless, smaller muscleheads but can he silence them with his keyboard? He has no hope in hell of succeeding and well he knows it. Thus, witness his recourse to the use of insults to embarrass others. He suggests that I haven't achieved much in the sport. That coming from an athletes rep! How pathetic, Chick, to say that about a former IFBB champion bodybuilder on the internet.
There is no argument about the fact that the Weiders have dominated the sport of bodybuilding. Where the sport will go now is a good question. Ben would hope his dear IFBB will endure and be a monument to him and Joe. Let us all hope that the intentions that were beneficial to bodybuilders will evolve. It is about time the bodybuilders were number one and not any administrators or organization.
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LOL! Shows you guys read my posts and that is all that matters.
You know, I wonder about Chick being the appointed athletes' rep. There he was in his latest fashion outfit MCing the Olympia. WTH is that? How can he represent the athletes and do that job? He could have been backstage to make sure the competitors were okay. His role as a commentator on radio is also a conflict of interests.
I don't expect Chick to bite the hand that feeds him. The IFBB MO is based on the weakness in human nature. Long ago Ben and Joe concluded that muscleheads are dumbbells. Those who were not dopes could be manipulated to feed their egos. Give them trophies, features and covers in magazines, and titles and forget about money. The Weiders became master manipulators and recruited like-minded associates and stooges to help them. A blue blazer and official recognition kept them loyal. It is amazing how loyal the officials are. No one speaks out of line. How is that possible in such a controversial, subjective sport? Even the outspoken Steve W from NY has become an insider and tows the line. I never thought a guy who could challenge an audience to fight him would ever do that. Shows you what I know.
Bob has benefitted from associating with businesses involved in the sport. He has been groomed by JM to know what to say and when to say it. His background as an assistant sheriff comes in handy to deal with trespassers and people causing a public nuisance. He feels he is quite able to break the necks of hapless, smaller muscleheads but can he silence them with his keyboard? He has no hope in hell of succeeding and well he knows it. Thus, witness his recourse to the use of insults to embarrass others. He suggests that I haven't achieved much in the sport. That coming from an athletes rep! How pathetic, Chick, to say that about a former IFBB champion bodybuilder on the internet.
There is no argument about the fact that the Weiders have dominated the sport of bodybuilding. Where the sport will go now is a good question. Ben would hope his dear IFBB will endure and be a monument to him and Joe. Let us all hope that the intentions that were beneficial to bodybuilders will evolve. It is about time they were number one and not any administators or organization.
Maybe a lot of "Muscleheads are dumbells" as you say. But then along comes a guy like Arnold. Joe brings him over, realizing the guy will promote his supplements and magazines, and discovers that Arnold is so bright and motivated, that not only does he help him in the bodybuilding world, but mentors him in business and Real estate investments. Arnold goes on to make a fortune, become famous, etc. Arnold helped Joe, Joe helped Arnold. It's called a symbiotic relationship. So what if Bob Chick is loyal to the people that have recognized his appeal and have helped promote him. That's how successful people get where they are. It's not about kissing ass, it's about showing solidarity with those that help you in life. Losers never learn to use their contacts and they spend their time being negative and malicious..blaming their lack of drive and motivation on others.
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By the way the book 'Brothers in Iron' is a pretty good read
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Arnold is an extremely motivated and resourceful man. Joe brought him out to California in October, 1968. He gave him a job in the Weider warehouse to shift boxes and barbells around. Apparently, Arnold preferred to sun himself on Santa Monica Beach and working out in gyms.
It was Joe Gold who advised Arnold about investing in property. Joe said that a gym was a poor investment because it required long hours and paid little in return. No one could have known how successful the Golds Gym name would become. The fact is nothing would have happened unless shrewd businessmen with a vision took over that name. Joe returned to the gym business and again was successful with World Gym. He even gave Arnold a private parking spot under the building. There was a rumour that Arnold even owned the building and eventually Joe had to move. This is hearsay as I do not know that for sure.
Arnold benefited from bodybuilding by using it to launch his movie career. Most of us were skeptical that he would succeed beyond what handsome Steve Reeves had done in 1959 and 1960 through Hercules movies. I even told him to his face that he would never become a great actor when he was in our apartment in Manly in 1974. He laughed and said he liked when people did that because it made him try harder. Arnold then used his fame to move into politics. Again, most observers felt he wouldn't succeed. They all underestimated Arnold and his appeal to the average guy. Arnold 'wrote' in 'Education of a Bodybuilder' that he never associated with people who couldn't benefit him in some way. You can see how insightful he was using that strategy. He knew who to befriend and who to stay away from. Compare his performance to that of equally gifted Sergio Oliva who didn't have a philosophy of getting ahead through using other people.
The IFBB Mr America was won by Sergio Oliva to much disdain from fellow competitors. Sergio lost to his mate Bob Gajda in the AAU version and knew black men couldn't win that title. Chris Dickerson was the first and that was several years later. While the black men could win the major IFBB titles there is anecdotal evidence from Sergio and Serge Nubret that they were cheated out of titles in the past. Witness the report from Serge Nubret re the 1971 Mr Olympia where Sergio was not allowed to compete because of some ruling. So Sergio was screwed big time and when he was eventually able to compete he placed the usual 8th place that 'undesirables' get. There have been many contests that were controversial where superior black men didn't win. The 72 Olympia is one and perhaps the 75 as well. It was an easy matter to select judges to determine whatever outcomes the principals desired.
It was a travesty what happened to Mike Mentzer. Many felt he was considered an outsider because he didn't endorse the Weider principles. Surely Mike and perhaps Arthur Jones came to despise what the IFBB did to many champions. Robby Robinson also has gripes that won't go away. We can only imagine the promises that were not kept to these guys.
I was looking at a Youtube video of the great Sergio Oliva winning a contest way back when. The guy was unbelievable to his contemporaries and still is amazing today. There he was winning that show and being his huge, muscular self. All he got was his arm raised and some shiny trophy! Was that all that they wanted in those days? Quite amazing when you remember that Larry Scott was considered a god when he won in New York in 1965. The crowd chanted, 'Larry, Larry, Larry......' endlessly and loudly. He took home a smile, silver plate and $1000 in cash. Larry has a degree in engineering so remains one of the most intelligent Mr Olympias ever.
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So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.
My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.
Here you go again Vince, you just have to mention Paul in your stories.
When was the last time you attended a contest? How do you know if the venues are full or not?
I MCed Paul's contest on the weekend, we had 116 competitors from every state, full house at finals over 2 days. Paul made a very emotional speech to the audience followed by a minutes silence for Ben. The packed crowd appreciated it and were very respectful of this sad passing. Why you would use this time to talk about yourself is beyond belief. We had Dennis Wolf guest posing, he was fantastic and the fans were rapt. I even did a interview with Lee, who is very happy to be back in IFBB and will compete in our Aussie show March 14th. Maybe you should try going to a show Vince, alot has changed since you placed dead last in your final showing. You need to get over it and move on.
RIP Ben.
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Here you go again Vince, you just have to mention Paul in your stories.
When was the last time you attended a contest? How do you know if the venues are full or not?
I MCed Paul's contest on the weekend, we had 116 competitors from every state, full house at finals over 2 days. Paul made a very emotional speech to the audience followed by a minutes silence for Ben. The packed crowd appreciated it and were very respectful of this sad passing. Why you would use this time to talk about yourself is beyond belief. We had Dennis Wolf guest posing, he was fantastic and the fans were rapt. I even did a interview with Lee, who is very happy to be back in IFBB and will compete in our Aussie show March 14th. Maybe you should try going to a show Vince, alot has changed since you placed dead last in your final showing. You need to get over it and move on.
RIP Ben.
Belief has nothing to do with it. :D
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Belief has nothing to do with it. :D
True, I was looking for the right word but "delusional" has been used for Vince so much that it has lost it's impact.
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I am not the messiah of muscle but I have had a gym in Sydney since August 1971. I have seen a lot of crap go on in bodybuilding in Australia. In those days there was just one Mr Australia. Compare that with what we have today. All the gyms would go to the contests. We won several of Paul's Best Support Gym trophies and did so at the 1980 Mr Olympia when we sold 200 tickets at $35 each. Paul said there wasn't time to present that trophy which was one of the largest on stage. In 1975 Paul placed me last in the Mr Australia contest as did Arnold. For showing bias and malintent I would have banned both of those individuals for life from having anything to do with bodybuilding contests.
Paul may well have done a lot in Australia and NSW re bodybuilding but that is partly because he has a monopoly on staging IFBB contests. Since the bodybuilders want to win those contests, Paul has a lot of power. I find it difficult to give Paul any money to attend his contests. Others have found it is impossible to remove him from his position. Whatever he runs it is not a democratic sporting organization.
Why a Melbourne gym owner would criticize another gym owner is beyond me. Unless the same things have happened to you I suggest you consider what you are saying. That you find support by the party faithful is not surprising because of the stirrers on Getbig, but that is hardly evidence that you are right.
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So what if a guy, travels to strangers funerals, takes pictures of himself in cages, defends the morbidly obese, takes pictures of children on the beach and is obsessed with a black homosexual? That's normal, right?
what does pumphard have to do with any of this? ;D
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Some epic battles being fought in this thread!
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Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.
Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.
When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.
So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.
My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.
I think Frank Zane was right on the money with the comments about Disneyland . . . this old fart is fucked. This guy never had a physique which was worthy of a cover or an article.
I thought Paul was dead.
PH LLB
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Those who have not been around for a very long time probably missed all the old magazine wars and even editorials. The magazines were not very big in the old days. Your Physique, Muscle Builder, Ironman, Strength and Health, and Health and Strength were read 'cover to cover'. The man on the float who gets my vote is the Weider trained man. Days of good tasting Protein 101 until the Food people came down hard on false labelling.
Joe trained everyone. When he appeared in public at many contests he was booed. He was upset and asked former editor Bill Reynolds why they booed him. Maybe Joe never understood. If he were young and posted like that on Getbig he would be roasted more than Goodrum! Something about overdoing the expert thing. Oh, Joe was and is a big fan of bodybuilding. He told me in 1980 that all the Mr Olympias were his champions so he didn't care who won the title. That is probably true. I have no beef against Joe. Ben, however originated the rules and procedures for the IFBB and there is a lot that can be criticized about that organization. It has never been run by proper bodybuilders. Businessmen and business tactics rule that group. Jobs for the boys like a dictator would run an army. Obey and be rewarded. Disobey and be punished. Ben lived to see hapless, outspoken Lee Priest booted out for 2 long years. WTF was that all about? To me it was all misguided ego interferring in the sport of bodybuilding. The best should be allowed to compete in the Olympia. That was Joe's vision. It has failed to live up to that because of fear of losing an empire. Napoleon failed in the end and perhaps the IFBB didn't achieve what was hoped. No Olympic games. No public respect.
When I started bodybuilding I guess I dreamed of making it to the cover of a magazine. I have taken photos that made covers but that is all. I haven't been featured in an article in one of those magazines, either, so I guess I join Lee and others who aren't rewarded suitably because of our attitudes and our inability to kiss butt appropriately. Somehow we thought being he-men stood for having guts and not being meek. What a breed most bodybuilders have become.
So I guess there are some sour grapes on my part. In Australia we have Paul Graham running the IFBB local here and he is there until he no longer wants to do it. That is not democracy. No elections just the same thing year after year. He doesn't listen and doesn't have to listen. What has happened is the sport has stagnated and has even gone underground. Look at how many gyms there are in Sydney and elsewhere. Where are the crowds at contests? A mystery.
My hope is that a new wind sweeps the old out and makes a better sport when those who are capable are involved. Ben created an establishment that will be very difficult to dislodge. He, clearly, knows the muscleheads well. They follow like sheep. They dance around the stage for peanuts. Well done as a business plan. Too bad for the sport.
Actually, if you read Basile's post backwards...the hidden message appears.
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The amusing thing is what a 'stack of dimes' can do to a big muscleman called Chick. Chick seems to go to a lot of trouble to deal with losers, old guys, and people not in his loop.
Sevastase and me are from the old school and we fear no man!
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The amusing thing is what a 'stack of dimes' can do to a big muscleman called Chick. Chick seems to go to a lot of trouble to deal with losers, old guys, and people not in his loop.
Sevastase and me are from the old school and we fear no man!
Amazing, Basile.....you actually fit all three profiles...
loser...check.
Old Guy.....check.
People not in the loop.....checkmate.
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Getting back to the topic at hand. I have read accounts of Ben Weider travelling around the world signing up new countries under the IFBB banner. Yes, he was successful in this enterprise. What a pity the structure he left behind is so rigid. I honestly believe that he was too concerned about conquering other federations instead of doing what was best for bodybuilding. I remember the lengthy feud between York Barbell and Weider. The magazines would be against each other and I must say that Weider was the bad guy in the early years. I lived in Montreal when I attended McGill University but never thought about looking up Ben. I did look up Leo Robert a former Mr Universe who ran a gym there. I also visited Tony Lanza at his home as I respected his photography, especially the photos of Steve Reeves taken in 1947 on the St Lawrence River. Tony said the best time to take physique photos was about 5 pm so the sun is warm and the shadows not as harsh.
In August 1965 I visited York, Pa. to try to get a job writing for the Hoffman magazines. Dr. Terry Todd read my articles and suggested they were more suitable for the Weider magazines. That was not an option I ever considered. In 1980 I took several hundred photos of the Mr Olympia contestants. On the harbour cruise after the contest I told Joe Weider I had lots of shots. He told me to send him the contact sheets. I sent the photos to Ironman, MuscleMag and a German magazine. I didn't want to present anything to Joe. I guess, in retrospect, I made a decision that Joe wasn't the trainer of champions he claimed to be. Neither was Bob Hoffman the guru he presented to be. I think the only publisher I respected in those days was Peary Rader of Ironman. Now that man was a gentleman.
What bothered me was that most of these publishers didn't even lift weights. Oh, Joe had a go in the good old days so he qualifies as a bodybuilder. I don't think the others dared pose on a stage in briefs! Bob Hoffman used to boast about his strength and sexual prowess to anyone who would listen in his company gym.
Ben had a vision that was noble. Get bodybuilding into the Olympic Games. That would get the world's attention for sure. However, the scars from the old Hoffman-Lurie-Weider battles were still there and Joe and Ben never risked losing the monopoly they finally achieved in the sport. Ben diligently composed a thorough rule book and constitution for the IFBB. There must be no banned substances. When they didn't strictly and universally enforce those rules the IFBB lost credibility as a sporting organization. It joined the professional ones similar to boxing and wrestling that were basically companies and not organizations per se. Ben was a bit like Napoleon and didn't relinquish control of his platform until illness prevented him from carrying on. To his credit, Ben gave a speech at the Olympia thanking all those who were loyal contributors to his organization. That really was his final statement concerning what had been achieved.
The monument called the Mr Olympia contest reigns supreme in the minds of musclemen. It is the ultimate title and all dream of holding the Sandow statue as the winner. If only the drugs were eliminated from all contests. If only the injected oils were detected and forbidden. If only the augmentation of breasts disallowed from all female beauty and figure contests. The formula is simple, afterall. Reward the best natural physiques and figures on stage. Had that been Ben's mission then the sport might be a great pastime instead of an underground, embarrassing one. We are all tarred by what Ben failed to enforce. We have argued about this issue often on Getbig and elsewhere and the question remains. Why did the IFBB abandon drug testing? Why weren't the rules followed? When Ben lost the vision and chose to dominate the sport and enforce his virtual monopoly he lost his mission and the sport suffered for it. I doubt things can easily be addressed to undo the damage created by sweeping the health issues under the carpet. It will take a very brave organization to return bodybuilding to a sport that will be respected by gym owners, PE teachers, the medical community, and the general public.
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Athletes will always find a way to pass detection. Stop posturing about performance enhancing substances and start concentrating on the development of the sport itself. Without those "oils" you talk about you don't have bodybuilding simple as that. You know as well as anyone, dianabol man.
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There were no rules against Dianabol or any other performance enhancing drugs in 1970. I would be 100% natural if I were competing today. I started training in Jan 1959 and didn't try any pills until 11 years later. 2 Dianabol/day for about 8 weeks.
Arnold and other contemporaries all denied using drugs in those days.
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Sad that Vince's truthful posts here are met with some derision by those who prefer the purportedly raw & uncut daily getbig revisionist presentation of reality. The truth that Vince is one of the very few here who lived the BB life during it's formative years, and is willing to share those perspectives and context with most here who never experienced anything like it firsthand. Instead the masses here and elsewhere prefer sacharine internet hearsay.
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Vince has some amazing ideas about the industry formulated from a lifetime in the iron game. I think too many people dismiss his posts before even getting into them. I guarantee if they did, they would find the posts very thought provoking and interesting. At the end of the day if he makes the reader question the current situation its very helpful. I for one am very grateful for his contributions to the board. Almost every time I read one of his threads he provides a unique perceptive. Its nice to have some reflection and independent thought amongst a litany of filth (I enjoy that too). As far as all that anti-IFBB talk maybe Vince is best leaving that for conversations with Gary Lewer or some other NABBA competitor. He is possibly burning bridges by 'talking out' against the current structures, particularly under his real name.
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Amazing, Basile.....you actually fit all three profiles...
loser...check.
Old Guy.....check.
People not in the loop.....checkmate.
You'r new favourite phrase : " SHUT UP! YOU'RE NOT IN THE LOOP!"
The oly thing more ridiculous than your assclown outfits are your statements on getbig.
Here are some designer shirts to choose from , for your next IFBB event.
(http://www.thekleptones.com/surfer%20dude.jpg)
(http://static.flickr.com/90/206769589_3516e511f3.jpg)
(http://www.upbeatcustomcreations.com/upbeat/Upbeat%20Music%20Shirts%20002_edited.jpg)
(http://www.costumesofnashua.com/CNWebSite105/Active905/Pages/Shirts/PicShirt/ShirtCH1937.jpg)
(http://www.showmepizzaz.com/images/dload/zoom-IMG_0683.JPG)(http://www.thedenimblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/affliction-denim.jpg)
Good luck shopping! :)
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Basile gives me the heebie jeebies
:o You can't say that on Getbig! Ron'll put the Sheeny Curse on you!
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affliction jean= epitome of tackiness
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Vince are you gay? Not an insult or anything, just wondering.
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Gotta admit that when Vince submits non-vindictive posts - they are very interesting and based on my recollection of the early days - mostly factual.
Here's my two-cents to back up some of his statements ....
If the Hoffman group still promoted bodybuilding under the banner of the AAU, the bodybuilders would still be hitting the stage for the finals at 2 AM in the morning immediately following the Olympic Lifting awards. And the question of muscle enhancing products would still be as prominent as it is today.
And that was almost a strong possibility.
The Weiders made something that was virtually non-acceptable - acceptable by a large percentage of the world's population. And they did that through hard work and utmost dedication under extremely critical conditions.
They, and they alone, were responsible for the rise of bodybuilding and the popularity of some of those who have excelled in the competitive aspect of the game.