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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 24KT on October 20, 2008, 03:58:11 AM
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How Much Do Plumbers Really Make?
By Frances Romero Friday, Oct. 17, 2008
(http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0810/plumber_1017.jpg)
Forget the jokes about sagging workbelts, dirty t-shirts and plungers — the day of the savvy, politically inquisitive plumber is now at hand. Much has already been said of Joe the Plumber's sharp ascent into the public eye over the past two days. Since the airing of the final presidential debate between Senators John McCain and Barack Obama on Oct. 15, reporters have discovered the following about Joe Wurzelbacher, 34, of Holland, Ohio: He owes some taxes, apparently is working toward his plumbing license — though he has worked in the industry for more than a decade — and he voted for McCain in the presidential primary.
After the debate, fact-checkers were in a frenzy correcting McCain on several tidbits concerning the man who's now the most famous plumber in the nation: his name, Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher (not Joe Wurzelberger); that Wurzelbacher would face "much higher taxes" turns out would not be true after he admitted that the business he wants to buy likely wouldn't make enough to be taxed under Obama's plan; and more importantly, the fact that McCain apparently mistook Wurzelbacher's desired salary of $250,000 for his current salary, which the plumber says is far less. Which of course begs the question: How much do plumbers actually make? The standard assumption is that they earn a pretty decent wage. Americans want and need working pipes, just like they want and need their trash collected every few days — sanitation being another service always in demand by consumers and not always in demand by job-seekers, and typically pretty well paying as a result.
That said, a plumber's earnings vary widely depending on the region in which they work and whether a plumber owns a business that employs others. Journeymen in cities such as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Boston are in higher demand and command higher prices — up to about $250,000 a year. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' 2006 National Compensation Survey, pipelayers, plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters nationwide made an average of $23 an hour, or about $46,000 annually for a typical 40-hour workweek. But those numbers lump different occupations together and don't give a complete picture of the current market. A pipelayer, for example, mostly installs pipes, while pipefitters and steamfitters install, maintain and repair pipe systems.
Organizations such as the Plumbing-Heating-Cooling Contractors Association and The United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters (UA) (which has endorsed Obama) don't keep statistics on how much members take home, or on industry earning standards. But a representative at the UA says that owners of plumbing businesses would likely take bigger hits in economic hard times because they incur the production costs of keeping a company running. Paul Abrams, a spokesman for Roto-Rooter, the nation's largest plumbing and drain service provider, says he has seen evidence of that. "We've had some people who owned businesses close up shop and come work for us," Abrams says.
He notes that some master plumbers (about five to seven years experience) at the Cincinnati-based company make in excess of $100,000 a year. "A good plumber can pretty much write his ticket and make a good living with a good amount of experience," Abrams says. The outsourcing boom that has sucked information technology jobs overseas, coupled with a dearth of workers in plumbing — a somewhat recession-resistant market — makes for an industry ripe for growth. As for Wurzelbacher, based on the region of the country he works in, the amount of experience he has, and the fact that he is unlicensed, he could be currently making anywhere between $40,000 and $70,000 — and no, he won't get stung by the Obama tax plan even if he buys that business. Still, not bad for an average Joe.
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I'm about to pay a plumber (in a week's time) about $ 6,000 for a 5 hour stint. That is about $ 300.00 per hour, considering he's going to bring another two people with him. And he was the cheapest.
A steal.
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The entire thing was a joke... Joe doesn't even make enough to buy a business that will be making him 250,000 a year. McCain is telling people Obama wants to raise taxes on small business and the middle class and yet 98 percent of the people in this group would actually benefit from Obama's plan.
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Licensed plumbers make $35+/Hr in my town.
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The entire thing was a joke... Joe doesn't even make enough to buy a business that will be making him 250,000 a year. McCain is telling people Obama wants to raise taxes on small business and the middle class and yet 98 percent of the people in this group would actually benefit from Obama's plan.
You know there is a physical law that states that change will always occur in the path of least resistance.
250K is sounds nice at the start (for people like you that miss the fact that to be employed you need an employer that makes money) but it can easily become 50K a year after if he gets elected, by then the resistance will be far smaller.
Always remember that Hitler was elected Democratically.
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You know there is a physical law that states that change will always occur in the path of least resistance.
250K is sounds nice at the start (for people like you that miss the fact that to be employed you need an employer that makes money) but it can easily become 50K a year after if he gets elected, by then the resistance will be far smaller.
Always remember that Hitler was elected Democratically.
::) just stop... it's getting pathetic...
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::) just stop... it's getting pathetic...
Ohhh I get it...I didn't say The Messiah before referring to him that what bothers you...sorry ::)
What really surprise me is that you all like to yell and scream about how much the other politicians are corrupt yet the man with the most ties to corruptions is your savior :-\ ::)
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Licensed plumbers make $35+/Hr in my town.
That's on the low low end. Licensed plumbers with 10+ years under their belts can make well past $60-$100/hr. I've got mad respect for tradesman. It's a dying breed. But most are way overpaid.
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Ohhh I get it...I didn't say The Messiah before referring to him that what bothers you...sorry ::)
What really surprise me is that you all like to yell and scream about how much the other politicians are corrupt yet the man with the most ties to corruptions is your savior :-\ ::)
whatever you say ::)
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You know there is a physical law that states that change will always occur in the path of least resistance.
250K is sounds nice at the start (for people like you that miss the fact that to be employed you need an employer that makes money) but it can easily become 50K a year after if he gets elected, by then the resistance will be far smaller.
Always remember that Hitler was elected Democratically.
Fear spin to the point of delusion
I really hope you truly don't believe this garbage and are instead just saying it.
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Fear spin to the point of delusion
I really hope you truly don't believe this garbage and are instead just saying it.
Please tell me who will stop him....the Democrat senate that seem to follow his BS and supported Fannie Mae against opposition until the collapse?
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Please tell me who will stop him....the Democrat senate that seem to follow his BS and supported Fannie Mae against opposition until the collapse?
Please tell me what proof you have he will.
On top of that, a president, even with a like congress doesn't have that much power. (example: 6 years of BUSH and repub congress that didn't do jack) They have the people who put them in the white house, capitalist, who will not let crazy taxes happen.
It's amazing how easily people are manipulated by BS.
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If the plumber is independent and can hussle, they can make lots of cash. My buddy is a plumber & told me he made nearly $100,000 last year.
A point about taxes...there are so many people that cheat the system. Instead of raising taxes on anyone, fix the loopholes for corporation and do a better job of making people report taxes. Approx 1/3 of all people here don't pay taxes. Some are illegals, others have creative accountants, still many others get paid cash and don't report. Thats why a modified consumption tax would be much more fair and account for everyone.
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Licensed plumbers make $35+/Hr in my town.
wtf...i make $50/hr >:(
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$35 is way off in most places...maybe for an apprentice.
Tradesmen can do well if they work hard. There's also a monetary difference between being an independent contractor and working for a large company.
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wtf...i make $50/hr >:(
More people have toilets than computer networks, LOL!
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And the thing is if your toilet or water breaks, you need that shit fixed ASAP!!
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And the thing is if your toilet or water breaks, you need that shit fixed ASAP!!
:o If your water breaks, ...there's no time to be fixing toilets, ...you need to get to the hospital FAST!
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I'm about to pay a plumber (in a week's time) about $ 6,000 for a 5 hour stint. That is about $ 300.00 per hour, considering he's going to bring another two people with him. And he was the cheapest.
A steal.
How does it feel to be fucked in the ass?
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You know there is a physical law that states that change will always occur in the path of least resistance.
250K is sounds nice at the start (for people like you that miss the fact that to be employed you need an employer that makes money) but it can easily become 50K a year after if he gets elected, by then the resistance will be far smaller.
Always remember that Hitler was elected Democratically.
Bush didnt get elected Democraticly, and he is no better than Hitler in my mind..
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How does it feel to be fucked in the ass?
I'm about to pay a plumber (in a week's time) about $ 6,000 for a 5 hour stint. That is about $ 300.00 per hour, considering he's going to bring another two people with him. And he was the cheapest.
A steal.
Material, Labor, workers comp, liability, overhead, taxes and profit. Profit margin is about 12-18% at best. Unless his labor is free, not paying w/c or liability has no overhead and stealing the materials this plumber is profiting about $1080. Out of that $1080.00 He should be reinvesting about 30% back into his business which leaves him about $750.00
How does it feel to be a complete idiot?
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Also that plumber is probably bonded so any injury to those employees would go against the bond and not the Coach's homeowner insurance.
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Also that plumber is probably bonded so any injury to those employees would go against the bond and not the Coach's homeowner insurance.
No, thats what workers comp is for. Every licenced contractor (in California) must have a surity bond. Basically if you don't pay a material bill or your labor the material company can file against that bond for unpaid bills and also file a lien aginst the homeowner if the contractor did not pay a bill.
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No, thats what workers comp is for. Every licenced contractor (in California) must have a surity bond. Basically if you don't pay a material bill or your labor the material company can file against that bond for unpaid bills and also file a lien aginst the homeowner if the contractor did not pay a bill.
I'm from New York and there are instances where injured workers can go after homeowners or employers. For example; they're installing a hot-tub and one of them uses your bathroom and falls inside the house. It's hard to prove negligence and get a worker's comp claim but it has been done. Only problem is the Comp carrier usually wants their money back.
New york is weird like that. Smoking in restaurants didn't end because of public pressure. Someone successfully got a w-comp claim for 2nd hand smoke. Comp carriers reached a deal with restaurants, either don't fight the legislation or prepare to pay waaaaay more in insurance. :)
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I'm from New York and there are instances where injured workers can go after homeowners or employers. For example; they're installing a hot-tub and one of them uses your bathroom and falls inside the house. It's hard to prove negligence and get a worker's comp claim but it has been done. Only problem is the Comp carrier usually wants their money back.
New york is weird like that. Smoking in restaurants didn't end because of public pressure. Someone successfully got a w-comp claim for 2nd hand smoke. Comp carriers reached a deal with restaurants, either don't fight the legislation or prepare to pay waaaaay more in insurance. :)
Funny how it always boils down to the money huh? ;D
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Funny how it always boils down to the money huh? ;D
People had better go get some money of their instead of worrying about rich politicians.
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People had better go get some money of their instead of worrying about rich politicians.
It sees the stupid fucks supporting McCain are more concerned with the wealthy keeping their riches than they are about shaping a system that will allow them too to have a chance at getting rich themselves
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It sees the stupid fucks supporting McCain are more concerned with the wealthy keeping their riches than they are about shaping a system that will allow them too to have a chance at getting rich themselves
I appreciate your concern, but it's just too late. America's 'dumbing down' phase has passed a point of no return. The population (at least a majority of them) are just too stupid to properly vote. They are fooled by sound bites and flashwords, and are fooled on hot button issues.
How else can Bush's re-election possibly be explained??
Sorry to say, but I think McCain is going to win. He will sink the ship the rest of the way, and then we will probably just have to start over from scratch.
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It sees the stupid fucks supporting McCain are more concerned with the wealthy keeping their riches than they are about shaping a system that will allow them too to have a chance at getting rich themselves
We're sorry we all can't support a liar that admittedly had a huge part of the crisis and is giving support to all kind of America haters like you....why can't we all be as smart as you? ::)
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Chance is not just created by pouring $ into programs, many which don't work, and having a big government that makes more decisions for us. Big gov with higher higher tax revenue is not the only way to help poor people advance.
Chance is created by equal opportunity, family support, good work ethic and values. The incentive to make good $ also drives many people to become successful. Raising taxes to 40% of earnings just sucks. The gov shouldn't be able to spend all of that $. There is way too much waste in the federal gov.
We can give people opportunity and encourage advancement without having a bigger gov with more wasteful spending. Bush failed, he is not a conservative. We must take a hacket and a scalpel to the budget. The keys are to support effective programs, cut ineffective programs, close tax loopholes, cut aid, cut excessive wasteful spending, cut pork projects and earmarks which are ludicrous. To really reform government...not the way McCain and Obama propose, but more along the lines of Ron Paul.
I am more in favor of Obama's foreign policy, which seems to be more focused with working with our allies and emposing sanctions and diplomacy and only using force if there is an imminent threat to America.
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Chance is not just created by pouring $ into programs, many which don't work, and having a big government that makes more decisions for us. Big gov with higher higher tax revenue is not the only way to help poor people advance.
Chance is created by equal opportunity, family support, good work ethic and values. The incentive to make good $ also drives many people to become successful. Raising taxes to 40% of earnings just sucks. The gov shouldn't be able to spend all of that $. There is way too much waste in the federal gov.
We can give people opportunity and encourage advancement without having a bigger gov with more wasteful spending. Bush failed, he is not a conservative. We must take a hacket and a scalpel to the budget. The keys are to support effective programs, cut ineffective programs, close tax loopholes, cut aid, cut excessive wasteful spending, cut pork projects and earmarks which are ludicrous. To really reform government...not the way McCain and Obama propose, but more along the lines of Ron Paul.
I am more in favor of Obama's foreign policy, which seems to be more focused with working with our allies and emposing sanctions and diplomacy and only using force if there is an imminent threat to America.
No one is talking about chance, ...but change. Big difference. ;)
I can't believe you just said what you did because it shows you're clearly in favour of Obama's economic plan.
He's not all about government spending, he's about supporting what works, and reforming what doesn't.
And that would be a hatchet, not a hacket. I don't know what a hacket is, so I'm not sure if it's needed or not ;)
but I do know a hatchet certainly is NOT called for. What is required is a scalpel. If your body was riddled with cancer. I'm sure you'd want the surgeon to remove all the cancer in one go would you not? That being the case, what instrument would you prefer he use, ...a hatchet, ...or a scalpel? For that matter, if you were adamant about NOT reproducing further, ...which instrument would you choose for your own personal vasectomy? The purpose of a scalpel is NOT to make small incisions, ...it is to make precise incisions. Really dude, ...I'm surprised I have to tell that to you, ...of all people. ::) :P
pssst: Here's my personal theory. I think you're so enamoured of McCain, because somewhere in the back of your mind, you'd love to have his business. A guy like you could get absolutely stinking rich off of a guy like McCain. :P