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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: headhuntersix on October 20, 2008, 06:38:00 PM
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I'm sure u expert military and foreign policy experts will flame this but instead, offer constructive counterpoints.
IF Sen. Barack Obama is elected president, our re public will survive, but our international strategy and some of our allies may not. His first year in office would conjure globe-spanning challenges as our enemies piled on to exploit his weakness.
Add in Sen. Joe Biden - with his track record of calling every major foreign-policy crisis wrong for 35 years - as vice president and de facto secretary of State, and we'd face a formula for strategic disaster.
Where would the avalanche of confrontations come from?
* Al Qaeda. Pandering to his extreme base, Obama has projected an image of being soft on terror. Toss in his promise to abandon Iraq, and you can be sure that al Qaeda will pull out all the stops to kill as many Americans as possible - in Iraq, Afghanistan and, if they can, here at home - hoping that America will throw away the victories our troops bought with their blood.
* Pakistan. As this nuclear-armed country of 170 million anti-American Muslims grows more fragile by the day, the save-the-Taliban elements in the Pakistani intelligence services and body politic will avoid taking serious action against "their" terrorists (while theatrically annoying Taliban elements they can't control). The Pakistanis think Obama would lose Afghanistan - and they believe they can reap the subsequent whirlwind.
* Iran. Got nukes? If the Iranians are as far along with their nuclear program as some reports insist, expect a mushroom cloud above an Iranian test range next year. Even without nukes, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would try the new administration's temper in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf.
* Israel. In the Middle East, Obama's election would be read as the end of staunch US support for Israel. Backed by Syria and Iran, Hezbollah would provoke another, far-bloodier war with Israel. Lebanon would disintegrate.
* Saudi Arabia. Post-9/11 attention to poisonous Saudi proselytizing forced the kingdom to be more discreet in fomenting terrorism and religious hatred abroad. Convinced that Obama will be more "tolerant" toward militant Islam, the Saudis would redouble their funding of bigotry and butchery-for-Allah - in the US, too.
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* Russia. Got Ukraine? Not for long, slabiye Amerikantsi. Russia's new czar, Vladimir Putin, intends to gobble Ukraine next year, assured that NATO will be divided and the US can be derided. Aided by the treasonous Kiev politico Yulia Timoshenko - a patriot when it suited her ambition, but now a Russian collaborator - the Kremlin is set to reclaim the most important state it still regards as its property. Overall, 2009 may see the starkest repression of freedom since Stalin seized Eastern Europe.
* Georgia. Our Georgian allies should dust off their Russian dictionaries.
* Venezuela. Hugo Chavez will intensify the rape of his country's hemorrhaging democracy and, despite any drop in oil revenue, he'll do all he can to export his megalomaniacal version of gun-barrel socialism. He'll seek a hug-for-the-cameras meet with President Obama as early as possible.
* Bolivia. Chavez client President Evo Morales could order his military to seize control of his country's dissident eastern provinces, whose citizens resist his repression, extortion and semi-literate Leninism. President Obama would do nothing as yet another democracy toppled and bled.
* North Korea. North Korea will expect a much more generous deal from the West for annulling its pursuit of nuclear weapons. And it will regard an Obama administration as a green light to cheat.
* NATO. The brave young democracies of Central and Eastern Europe will be gravely discouraged, while the appeasers in Western Europe will again have the upper hand. Putin will be allowed to do what he wants.
* The Kurds. An Obama administration will abandon our only true allies between Tel Aviv and Tokyo.
* Democracy activists. Around the world, regressive regimes will intensify their suppression - and outright murder - of dissidents who risk their lives for freedom and justice. An Obama administration will say all the right things, but do nothing.
* Women's rights. If you can't vote in US elections, sister, you're screwed. Being stoned to death or buried alive is just a cultural thing.
* Journalists. American journalists who've done everything they can to elect Barack Obama can watch as regimes around the world imprison, torture and murder their foreign colleagues, confident that the US has entered an era of impotence. The crocodile tears in newsrooms will provide drought relief to the entire southeastern US.
Sen. John McCain's campaign has allowed a great man to be maligned as a mere successor to George W. Bush. The truth is that an Obama administration would be a second Carter presidency - only far worse.
Think Bush weakened America? Just wait.
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* Russia. Got Ukraine? Not for long, slabiye Amerikantsi. Russia's new czar, Vladimir Putin, intends to gobble Ukraine next year, assured that NATO will be divided and the US can be derided. Aided by the treasonous Kiev politico Yulia Timoshenko - a patriot when it suited her ambition, but now a Russian collaborator - the Kremlin is set to reclaim the most important state it still regards as its property. Overall, 2009 may see the starkest repression of freedom since Stalin seized Eastern Europe.
Won't happen
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OK...why not. We are viewing the actions in Georgia as a prelude to operations against Ukraine...thats the US Military view. We've gotten tons of info on what they did, on all levels, when they invaded Georgia, including the massive cyber attack. I can't go into everything but would be happy to debate this.
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Now I'm not saying it will but.....LTC Peters is covering a once over the world of the trouble spots...if he's right on 2 we've got major problems.
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The only thing I see weak is your basic education skills.
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See...here we have a moron who brings nothing to the debate. Why don't u go play in some traffic and let the rest of us debate, which appears to be the point of the board. If u want to do this shit, take it to another board. Hope this helps dipshit.
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OK...why not. We are viewing the actions in Georgia as a prelude to operations against Ukraine...thats the US Military view. We've gotten tons of info on what they did, on all levels, when they invaded Georgia, including the massive cyber attack. I can't go into everything but would be happy to debate this.
All three parties in Ukraine want go West, each party's oligarchs want to go west.
Its not going to happen, Russia has to much to lose if they were to invade.
If Germany wasn't so dependent on Russian gas none of this would be an issue.
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with tymoshenko she's just a populist and much of her base is in the West of Ukraine.
As messed up as Ukraine's political system, its alot like how poland was back in the 80's sooner or later things will get sorted out.
Its much better than Russia.
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I disagree...but my arguments are based on crap I can't post here. The Russians have definite ambitions on Ukraine. They want them back in their sphere. I will say that despite what they were able to do to Georgia, they preformed poorly. I think the down turn in petro dollars will also stifle what they're trying to do. They have increased military spending while attempting to cut man power. They did look at how they preformed in Georgia and have begun cutting general officers and moving abler men up. Their services have basically stayed the same since the end of the Cold War. Many officers are the same, just having been on half pay or other programs. We're not impressed.
I'm not arguing that they aren't pro western...we train with them.
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The Russians have definite ambitions on Ukraine. They want them back in their sphere.
yea I don't disagree.
to go to war I can't be sure. It would be a bloodbath. Its in Russia interest to keep Europe relatively happy so they continue buying their gas.
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and vice versa to keep Ukraine out of NATO
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I agree...but they will play their games....trying to destabilize etc.....and Poland wants nothing more then to kick the shit out of them. Their military has come along way.
They do want that....but once in Russia won't make a move....
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And I apoligize for making the argument that I know something u don't but we sat through a very interesting brief about the initial thoughts on what Georgia ment and how the Russians performed. The only part that people sat up and took notice was the cyber warfare stuff that would have beeen worse had Georgia been more advanced. The rest, while classified, was kinda funny. Plenty of good video of them trying hard to do things that takes us minutes to do. They looked like Gypsies with AK's.
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And I apoligize for making the argument that I know something u don't
... The rest, while classified, was kinda funny. Plenty of good video of them trying hard to do things that takes us minutes to do. They looked like Gypsies with AK's.
no problem it doesn't bother me.
lol
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Thanks for the reasonable debate.....its becoming very rare here.
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to much party politics for the last two years
didn't kim jong il die?
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Allegedly they're coming out with some sorta statement this week. I'm headed to Korea before Christmas, I'm sure just in time for those rice propelled bastards to give it one final try.
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Thanks for the reasonable debate.....its becoming very rare here.
Yes it is, so nice to see you and others being reasonable.
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OK...why not. We are viewing the actions in Georgia as a prelude to operations against Ukraine...thats the US Military view. We've gotten tons of info on what they did, on all levels, when they invaded Georgia, including the massive cyber attack. I can't go into everything but would be happy to debate this.
HAHA LMAO Like you've got some top secret intelligence clearance. Didn't the Army tell you to clean up a shit pile of weapons up on a mountain top one time? Dude you're pathetic!
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HAHA LMAO Like you've got some top secret intelligence clearance. Didn't the Army tell you to clean up a shit pile of weapons up on a mountain top one time? Dude you're pathetic!
Exactly.
People with SIC access aren't at the bottom of the rung doing Good Housekeeping duties. Just bullshit moment from a delusional idiot.
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see this!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Neocon meltdown!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ohhh booo hoooo... The neocons telling us that if Obama gets elected, they will no longer be able to continue their psycho plans...
See Loco, I told you so :) Thanks HH6, you back up what I've been saying. Only you should change the bullshit title, we'll be stronger, more respected and will get more done.
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Oh and check this out!!!! There is a reason HH6 likes to never source his posted material!!!!!!!!
This story is written BY A MEMBER OF PNAC... HE IS A NEOCON... SURPISE SURPISE SURPISE :D
RALPH PETERS
http://www.newamericancentury.org/defense-20050128.htm
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It was an article posted in the Oped of the New York Post. A widely read news paper in the most important city on the planet. And yes Hugo, we know you always post non radical left wing articles. You are a model of objectivity. ::)
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It was an article posted in the Oped of the New York Post. A widely read news paper in the most important city on the planet. And yes Hugo, we know you always post non radical left wing articles. You are a model of objectivity. ::)
What I said is exactly true... I post from several sources but I source my material so you know what you're reading and can weigh it accordingly... You should get that!!!!! that this is coming from a neoconservative is very important information to have.... period, end of story...
and Loco and all the others who tell me Obama and McCain are the same, this is further proof I'm picking Obama over TEAM NEOCON...
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OK- But Ralph Peters is a former member of the armed forces who has written several books on military conflict and terrorism. He also regularly contributes to the New York Post and other non-radical publications. Pitching an ad-hominem attack simply because as you put it hes a "neocon" is self serving and pointless. The article wasn't plucked from some white-sepratist militia blog, it was plucked from the New York Post. Your pattern of hypocrisy is not surprising. When you and others post left wing propaganda that isn't even from a reputable or widely read news source and myself and others dismiss their points because of their ubsubstantiated radical views, you have a coronary unless we can argue against their points. Here, you are doing the same thing in reverse, except you can't argue against the article- you can only attack the author by dismissing him as a "neocon". By the way I highly doubt anyone that can read would have wronfully mistaken the author for a liberal pacifist.
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OK- But Ralph Peters is a former member of the armed forces who has written several books on military conflict and terrorism. He also regularly contributes to the New York Post and other non-radical publications. Pitching an ad-hominem attack simply because as you put it hes a "neocon" is self serving and pointless. The article wasn't plucked from some white-sepratist militia blog, it was plucked from the New York Post. Your pattern of hypocrisy is not surprising. When you and others post left wing propaganda that isn't even from a reputable or widely read news source and myself and others dismiss their points because of their ubsubstantiated radical views, you have a coronary unless we can argue against their points. Here, you are doing the same thing in reverse, except you can't argue against the article- you can only attack the author by dismissing him as a "neocon". By the way I highly doubt anyone that can read would have wronfully mistaken the author for a liberal pacifist.
No... What don't you get about everything I said is true!.... HH6 didn't post the source because he didn't want us to know it was coming from a neocon... I don't give a rats ass what he writes or what he's done. All of the members of PNAC are very prominent people. I've never seen a neocon write on some"white separatist militia blog" Do you even know what a neoconservative is? Your reply suggests you don't. That this comes from a neocon is a fact. Why am I even replying to your douchebag of a post ::) Did you actually write that crap seriously?
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LOL you have called me a neocon on numerous occasions even though I am far from. It would stand to reason that you dont know what the word means either. You are responding to my "douchebag" of a post because you look like a jackass and are trying to unsuccessfully save face. My point about the article not originating from a white sepratist blog was to illustrate that HH didn't pull the article from some lunatic fringe website, he pulled it from the New York Post. I never said that a white sepratist is a neocon-- Try putting on your reading glasses, or investing in a reading teacher.
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LOL you have called me a neocon on numerous occasions even though I am far from. It would stand to reason that you dont know what the word means either. You are responding to my "douchebag" of a post because you look like a jackass and are trying to unsuccessfully save face. My point about the article not originating from a white sepratist blog was to illustrate that HH didn't pull the article from some lunatic fringe website, he pulled it from the New York Post. I never said that a white sepratist is a neocon-- Try putting on your reading glasses, or investing in a reading teacher.
Hugo looking like a douche bag, throwing around the neocon comment (a word he can't even define) and failing to save face? Just another day in the life of.
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tell me again how I don't know what a neoconservative is...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=230196.msg3238040#msg3238040
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=228917.msg3227557#msg3227557
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=114099.msg1650756#msg1650756
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=116187.msg1684388#msg1684388
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=119028.msg1723752#msg1723752
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=122843.msg1757639#msg1757639
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This thread is Whorewellian.
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Epic cut n paste + low education + lies exposed backfire thread.
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* Israel. In the Middle East, Obama's election would be read as the end of staunch US support for Israel. Backed by Syria and Iran, Hezbollah would provoke another, far-bloodier war with Israel. Lebanon would disintegrate.
oohhh noooo, god forbid we stop being Israel's fucking lapdog ::)
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oohh god, let me choose a US PRESIDENT based on which one would make ISRAEL safer ::) ::)
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Good point. We should send as much money as we can to Iran, Syria and the palestinians. That way they will like us more and use that money to kill more Israelis. In the end, they will become our pals and there will be no more terrorism. While were at it, lets give back the majority of America and the Carribiean to the native Americans, help Cuba rebuild its infastructure to become a communist powerhouse in world affairs and give the American South West back to Mexico. We should also make Obama dictator for life and make William Ayers US education director. Everything is falling into place.