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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Cromespyder on October 27, 2008, 12:18:11 AM
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Toben’s Arrest: A New Assault Against Free Speech
By Mark Weber
Oct 15, 2008, 19:30
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Why `Holocaust Denial’ Laws are Dangerous
On October 1, British police at London’s Heathrow airport arrested Dr. Frederick Toben – an Australian citizen and a Holocaust revisionist – during a stop on a flight from the United States to Dubai. He was detained on the basis of a “European Arrest Warrant” issued by German authorities that accuses him of publishing material online "of an anti-semitic and/or revisionist nature.”
Toben, a former schoolteacher who holds a doctorate in philosophy, has reportedly described the Holocaust as "a lie". His Australia-based “Adelaide Institute” website allegedly carries the transcript of an interview in which he says there is "no proof" that the Hitler regime systematically exterminated Jews.
He is being held in custody until a British court decides if he is to be extradited to Germany. A hearing is scheduled for Oct. 17. A German prosecutor says that if Toben is extradited, he could be sentenced to five years in prison. He would then join two German citizens, Ernst Zundel and Germar Rudolf, who are already serving prison terms for having violated Germany’s “Holocaust denial” law.
In Germany it is crime to “deny, play down or justify” genocidal acts carried out by the Hitler regime. “Holocaust denial” is also a crime in France, Switzerland, Belgium, Austria, and several other European countries, as well as in Israel. Over the years many individuals have been fined, imprisoned or forced into exile for “denying the Holocaust,” including Robert Faurisson and Roger Garaudy in France, Siegfried Verbeke in Belgium, Juergen Graf and Gaston-Armand Amaudruz in Switzerland, and Ernst Zundel, Germar Rudolf, Guenter Deckert and Hans Schmidt in Germany.
The Toben case has generated considerable media attention and much critical commentary. One of Britain’s most influential daily papers, the Telegraph, sharply condemned the arrest as a “blatant attack on free speech.” In an editorial headlined “Dr. Fredrick Toben’s Arrest Should Alarm Us All,” it cautioned that “the British legal system should have no part in this process.” Chris Huhne, a British parliamentarian and home affairs spokesman of the Liberal Democratic party, noted that “Holocaust denial” is not a crime in Britain, and said that British courts should refuse to extradite Toben.
In most of the world, Europe’s “denial” laws are regarded as peculiar and unjust. This was obvious after the November 2005 arrest in Austria of British historian David Irving. He was detained on the basis of an outstanding warrant for the “crime,” committed 16 years earlier, of having expressed dissident views about the wartime treatment of Europe's Jews. After a sensational trial in Vienna, he was sentenced to three years imprisonment. (He was released after 13 months.)
Irving’s ordeal prompted commentary in newspapers around the world – nearly all of it critical of the arrest and of the laws in a few European countries under which he, and many others, have been imprisoned, fined or forced into exile.
“Denial” laws criminalize even factual or truthful statements that “play down” the wartime treatment of Europe’s Jews, thereby violating ancient and universal standards of justice.
Justice applied selectively is not justice. It is a form of injustice. Because “denial” laws prohibit dissident views about only one chapter of history, they are inherently unfair. They inhibit historical inquiry and restrict free speech.
Free and open societies normally protect even offensive speech. That’s why western countries defend the right of their citizens to “deny, play down or justify” crimes committed by the United States, Israel or the (former) Soviet Union, or to publish offensively anti-Christian or anti-Muslim writings.
Across Europe authorities routinely punish those who say or write things that the Jewish community regards as offensive, but take no action against those who offend Christian or Muslim sensibilities. Thus, in Germany and several other countries, it’s a criminal offense to say that Elie Wiesel is a liar or that the Anne Frank diary is a fraud, but perfectly legal to say that Jesus or Muhammad were liars.
“Holocaust denial” laws are the result of a well-organized, long-term Jewish campaign. In 1982, the Institute for Jewish Affairs in London, a London-based agency of the World Jewish Congress, announced that it was launching a worldwide campaign to persuade and pressure governments to outlaw "Holocaust denial.” The anti-revisionist laws that were subsequently enacted in several European countries reflect the success of this initiative. Germany enacted its “Holocaust denial” statute in 1985 (amended in 1994), France in 1990, Austria in 1992, Belgium in 1995, and Slovakia in 2001. Underscoring the organized nature of this campaign, the International Association of Jewish Lawyers and Jurists in June 1998 called for new and more severe laws against “Holocaust denial.”
Because Germany is trying to impose its “denial” statute beyond its own borders, the Toben case has dangerous implications for online freedom of expression everywhere. Everyone who cares about freedom of speech – even those who are outraged by Toben’s views -- should be alarmed by Germany’s high-handed attempt to censor the World Wide Web.
Toben’s extradition to Germany would establish a dangerous precedent. Britain and other European Union countries would be obliged to turn over to Germany anyone in any EU state, including visitors from non-EU countries, who expresses dissident views on “the Holocaust” that are accessible on the Internet.
In the Zundel and Rudolf cases, German state prosecutors claimed the right to prosecute persons for Internet “denial” postings on websites in countries where such writings are legal. In the Toben case, German authorities are asserting the right to punish even non-citizens for such violations.
German authorities claim the right to prosecute anyone anywhere for expressing dissident views on “the Holocaust” that can be accessed online in Germany, even when such expressions of opinion are entirely legal in the country where they are posted, and regardless of the language in which they are written.
As some observers have pointed out, Germany is trying to "legislate for the entire world" by treating downloadable Internet material as a German publication. Nigel Farage, leader of the UK Independence Party, said that while his party in no way condones Toben's views, “not only has he not broken any UK laws, but in seeking to arrest him, Germany is claiming censorship rights to the entire Internet network.”
The danger also exists that other countries, citing the German precedent, may similarly seek to punish persons outside their borders who post writings that violate their parochial notions of permissible speech and writing.
Turkey, for example, could demand the extradition and punishment of anyone in any European state who posts online writings that violate the country’s law that makes it a crime to insult the Turkish nation. Pakistan or Saudi Arabia could demand the extradition and punishment of persons in Europe who post writings or images that insult Islam. China could demand the extradition and punishment of persons who call for the independence of Tibet, or who question the legitimacy of China’s Communist Party.
It is difficult to believe that Germany would allow other countries to punish its citizens on the same basis that Germany insists on punishing anyone who violates its own “thought crime” law.
Germany’s effort to impose its peculiar limits on free speech outside its borders has potentially harmful consequences for Internet freedom of expression everywhere. Because the Toben case has such far-reaching implications, people in many countries will be closely watching how British authorities decide to handle Germany’s extradition request.
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this is one of the biggest travesties i the world today, an absolute destruction of free speech to the point where one cannot even RESEARCH aspects of world war 2 history without being PROSECUTED????
WAKE THE FUCK UP WORLD!!!!!!
GROW SOME BALLS GERMANY, YOU DONT OWN THEM SHIT! NO CURRENT GERMAN CITIZEN HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS, AND THE ASSHOLES YOU ARE SENDING BILLIONS TO IN ISRAEL DID NOT SUFFER FROM IT EITHER.
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this is one of the biggest travesties i the world today, an absolute destruction of free speech to the point where one cannot even RESEARCH aspects of world war 2 history without being PROSECUTED????
WAKE THE FUCK UP WORLD!!!!!!
GROW SOME BALLS GERMANY, YOU DONT OWN THEM SHIT! NO CURRENT GERMAN CITIZEN HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS, AND THE ASSHOLES YOU ARE SENDING BILLIONS TO IN ISRAEL DID NOT SUFFER FROM IT EITHER.
what makes it even worse, he didn't commit this alleged 'holocaust denial' in germany, yet he is about to be extradited there from england, where he was arrested during a stopover during his flight from the US to dubai.
germany might 'grow some balls' if it and the entire EU werent under the firm grip of zionist control.
in 2000, EU sanctions were illegally forced on austria when a non-zionist puppet was DEMOCRATICALLY elected.
you see - we are not allowed to have real leaders in the EU or USA.
the white world needs to wake up, but pople are so brainwashed, like ifbbwannab, who think the jews are so great, our friends, that the nearly powerless muslim boogymen are our real enemies and a huge threat to us.
i could rant forever, point being: the west is in a sad state and is in desperate need of an awakening to reality before its too late.
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Most ridiculous thing ever... Fuck this.
Grow some balls Germany... Tell them it was a long time ago and it's time they got over it.
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what makes it even worse, he didn't commit this alleged 'holocaust denial' in germany, yet he is about to be extradited there from england, where he was arrested during a stopover during his flight from the US to dubai.
germany might 'grow some balls' if it and the entire EU werent under the firm grip of zionist control.
in 2000, EU sanctions were illegally forced on austria when a non-zionist puppet was DEMOCRATICALLY elected.
you see - we are not allowed to have real leaders in the EU or USA.
the white world needs to wake up, but pople are so brainwashed, like ifbbwannab, who think the jews are so great, our friends, that the nearly powerless muslim boogymen are our real enemies and a huge threat to us.
i could rant forever, point being: the west is in a sad state and is in desperate need of an awakening to reality before its too late.
This story is ridiculous, but you're an idiot.
Stealth islamisation is occurring across the EU states and you're uninformed or stupid enough to believe Jews are the biggest threat?
Hahaha dumbass.
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I didn't read the article but this has happened to an American too. A guy in Nebraska was extridited to Germany and did time for selling his Nazi Wares... Some people in Germany bought them and that was enough for us to just say ok, here you go, have him.
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There's no reason you can't bring topics like this to the board but stay away from the racist stuff... If you're blaming something, identity a wrong in policy, ideology, belief, political, historical, but not an entire race. If threads like this get out of hand they will have to go. I don't want to see a bunch of Jews are evil threads started. Like saying the white world needs to wake up, it's a we're good they're evil line of thought, I don't like it, lean away from making posts like that.
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I'd save my tears for someone more deserving.
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... but yeah it is fucked.
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This story is ridiculous, but you're an idiot.
Stealth islamisation is occurring across the EU states and you're uninformed or stupid enough to believe Jews are the biggest threat?
Hahaha dumbass.
Europe is filling up with Muslims! I have family and friends that live and travel to Europe allot and they can't believe it, frightening!
I remember seeing a demonstration in England where Muslims were calling for English people to get out of their country LOL....talk about taking over the place!
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Europe is filling up with Muslims! I have family and friends that live and travel to Europe allot and they can't believe it, frightening!
I remember seeing a demonstration in England where Muslims were calling for English people to get out of their country LOL....talk about taking over the place!
I live in Manchester, England and I can tell you it's worse than you can believe.
If you visit this place for a weeks break or something you might think it's hunky dory, but to stay a few months you begin to understand how bad things really are.
The islamic terrorist threat has also lead to us having 1 surveillance camera per person. So our civil liberties have been eroded due to the mismanagement of the Government and their uncontrolled immigration policies that allow known islamists to come over and get welfare, which is practically state-funded self-destruction through stealth jihad and slow but sure islamisation on the country that gave us English common law and the Magna Carta... sickening to say the least :-\
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This story is ridiculous, but you're an idiot.
Stealth islamisation is occurring across the EU states and you're uninformed or stupid enough to believe Jews are the biggest threat?
Hahaha dumbass.
islamisation is a huge threat to europe,if not the biggest. europe should be european, not arabic/islamic. where did i say otherwise?
you totally miss the point of what im saying.
look into who is behind the promotion of the dissolution of race in europe.
Monday, October 1, 2007
Who was Karl Marx?
THE RISE OF KARL MARX
Heinrich Karl Marx (Moses Mordecai Marx Levy, 1818-83) was born of wealthy parents (his father was a lawyer), and much of his personal life has never been revealed. Professor M. Mtchedlov, Vice-Director of the Marx Institute, said that there were 100 volumes in his collection, but only thirteen have ever been reprinted for the public. When he was six, his family converted to Christianity, and although he was once a believer in God, after attending the Universities of Bonn and Berlin, Marx wrote that he wanted to avenge himself "against the One who rules above." He joined the Satanist Church run by Joana Southcott, who was said to be in contact with the demon Shiloh. His early writings mentioned the name "Oulanem," which was a ritualistic name for Satan. A friend of Marx wrote in 1841, that "Marx calls the Christian religion one of the most immoral of religions." His published attacks against the German government caused him to be ejected from the country.
He received a Doctorate in Philosophy in 1841, but was turned down for a teaching position, because of his revolutionary activities. In 1843, he studied Economics in Paris, where he learned about French communism. Again he was expelled for revolutionary activities. In 1844, he wrote the book A World Without Jews even though he was Jewish. In 1845, he moved to Brussels, where, with German philosopher, Friedrich Engels (the son of a wealthy textile manufacturer, 1820-95), who he met in Paris in 1844, they reorganized the Communist League.
Engels had joined the 'Young Germany' group (which had been established by Giuseppe Mazzini) in Switzerland in 1835. He later became a 32nd degree Mason (as did Marx). In 1842 he was sent to England to manage the family's mill in Manchester. A journalism student, in 1843 he published a treatise on economics called Outlines of a Critique of Political Economy; and in 1844, wrote a review of Thomas Carlyle's Past and Present, and also a booklet called The Condition of the Working Class in England in 1844. It was Engel's philosophy that established the basis for the ideas which were developed by Marx.
In 1848, Marx published his Communist Manifesto (which he was working on from 1830-47), from an Engel's draft (which was an extension of Engel's Confessions of a Communist), which also borrowed heavily from Clinton Roosevelt's book, The Science of Government Founded on Natural Law which echoed the philosophies of Weishaupt. It had been commissioned by the Communist League in London. The League, formerly known as the League of the Just (or the League of Just Men), which was an off-shoot of the Parisian Outlaws League (which evolved from the Jacobin movement), was founded by Illuminati members who fled from Germany. The League was made up of rich and powerful men from different countries that were behind much of the turmoil that engulfed Europe in 1848. Many researchers consider them either a finger organization of the Illuminati, or an inner circle. Originally introduced as the Manifesto of the Communist Party in London, on February 1, 1848, the name was changed to the Communist Manifesto, and the name of Karl Marx was added as its author twenty years later, after a series of small revolutions failed.
Marx wrote in 1848: "The coming world war will cause not only reactionary classes and dynasties, but entire reactionary peoples, to disappear from the face of the earth." Friedrich Engels, that same year, wrote: "The next world war will make whole reactionary peoples disappear from the face of the earth."
The Manifesto was described by Marxians as "The Charter of Freedom of the Workers of the World," and it was the platform of the Communist League. It advocated the abolition of property in land, and the application of all land rent to public purposes; a heavy progressive or graduated income tax; abolition of all rights of inheritance; the confiscation of all the property of immigrants and rebels; centralization of credit in the hands of the State with a national bank; centralization and State control of all communication and transportation; expansion of factories to cultivate waste lands, and create industrial armies, especially for agriculture; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country to have a more equitable distribution of the population over the country; the elimination of child factory labor and free education for all children in public schools.
This revolutionary plan for socialism, which included the abolition of all religion, was reminiscent of the doctrines of Weishaupt. It was basicaIly a program for establishing a 'perfect' state, and it called for the workers (proletariat) to revolt and overthrow capitalism (the private ownership of industry), and for the government to own all property. Marx, felt, that by controlling all production, the ruling power could politically control a country. After the communist regime would take over, the dictatorship would gradually "wither away" and the result would be a non-government. The final stage of communism is when the goods are distributed on the basis of need. Leonid Brezhnev, when celebrating the 50th anniversary of the U.S.S.R., said: "Now the Soviet Union is marching onward. The Soviet Union is moving towards communism."
Meanwhile, Professor Carl Ritter (1779-1859), of the University of Berlin, a co-founder of modern geographical science, was writing a contrasting view, under the direction of another group of Illuminists. The purpose of this was to divide the people of the world into opposing camps with differing ideologies. The work started by Ritter, was finished after he died, by German philosopher Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844-1900), who founded Nietzscheism, which later developed into Fascism, and then into Nazism, which was later used to ferment World War II. Although the Nazis, in quoting from Nietzsche, considered themselves to be the Master Race, Nietzsche did not. Nietzsche tried to stir things up at the top of the social order, while Marx hammered away at the bottom, concentrating on the lower class and working people. Nietzsche wanted to keep the uneducated in a state of slavery, while Marx wanted to neutralize the elite, and pushed for the rights of the people.
Marx worked as a correspondent for the New York Tribune (whose Editor was Horace Greeley, 1852-61), covering the 1848 European revolutions. One source has reported that even these articles were written by Engels. In 1857 and 1858, Marx wrote a few articles for the New American Cyclopedia.
On September 28, 1864, Marx and Engels founded the International Workingmen's Association at St. Martin's Hall in London, which consisted of English, French, German, Italian, Swiss, and Polish Socialists, who were dedicated to destroying the "prevailing economic system." It later became known as the First Socialist International, which eight years later spread to New York and merged with the Socialist Party. The statutes they adopted were similar to Mazzini's, and in fact, a man named Wolff, the personal secretary of Mazzini, was a member, and pushed Mazzini's views. Marx wrote to Engels: "I was present, only as a dumb personage on the platform." James Guillaume, a Swiss member, wrote: "It is not true that the Internationale was the creation of Karl Marx. He remained completely outside the preparatory work that took place from 1862 to 1864..." Again, we find evidence that the Illuminati did in fact control the growing communist movement, but not to deal with the problems of workers and industry, rather it was to instigate riot and revolution. The Marxist doctrine produced by the Association was accepted and advocated by the emerging labor movement, and soon the organization grew to 800,000 dues-paying members.
Even though Marx publicly urged the working class to overthrow the capitalists (the wealthy who profited from the Stock Exchange), in June, 1864, "in a letter to his uncle, Leon Phillips, Marx announced that he had made 400 pounds on the Stock Exchange." It is obvious that Marx didn't practice what he preached, and therefore didn't really believe in the movement he was giving birth to. He was an employee, doing a job for his Illuminati bosses.
Nathan Rothschild had given Marx two checks for several thousand pounds to finance the cause of Socialism. The checks were put on display in the British Museum, after Lord Lionel Walter Rothschild, a trustee, had willed his museum and library to them.
In 1867, Marx wrote the first volume of Das Kapital, which became known as the "Bible of the Working Class." Marx felt, that as the workers achieved various reforms, there would be a possibility for the peaceful evolution towards socialism. A little known fact, is that Marx' beliefs were gleaned from the writings of Weishaupt, Babeuf, Blanc, Cabet, Owen, Ogilvie, Hodgkin, Gray, Robert Thompson, William Carpenter, and Clinton Roosevelt; which he discovered from his hours of research in the Reading Room of the British Museum. The second volume appeared after Marx' death, edited by Engels from Marx' notes, in 1885; and volume three appeared in 1894.
When Marx died in March 14, 1883, only six people attended his funeral. He never supported his family, which had produced six children. Three of them died of starvation in infancy and two others committed suicide. Actually, Engels supported Marx with income from his father's cotton mills in England. Marx was buried in London, at Highgate Cemetery.
The Social Democratic Party in Germany, in 1869, was the first Marxist aligned political Party. They favored an independent working class. It grew rapidly, despite the effort of Chancellor Otto von Bismarck to break it up through the enactment of anti-socialist legislation. In 1877, they elected a dozen members to the Reichstag. In 1881, they had 312,000 members; and by 1891, 1,427,000. In 1891, they eliminated their earlier leanings toward State-aid for co-ops, and aligned themselves with the Marxist goal of "the abolition of class rule and of classes themselves."
Some of the early Socialist Parties were: Danish Social Democratic Party (1870's), Swedish Socialist Party (1889), Norwegian Labor Party (1887), Austrian Social Democratic Party (1888), Belgian Labor Party (1885), Dutch Socialist-Democratic Workers Party (1894), Spanish Social Labor Party (1879), Italian Socialist Party (1892), and the Social Democratic Federation of Great Britain (1880's).
In 1889, the Second International was formed, with their headquarters in Brussels, Belgium. Their main responsibility was to create some sort of unity within its ranks. It was totally organized along Marxist philosophies.
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"The Jewish people as a whole will be its own Messiah. It will attain world dominion by the dissolution of other races, by the abolition of frontiers, the annihilation of monarchy, and by the establishment of a world republic in which the Jews will everywhere exercise the privilege of citizenship. In this "new world order" the children of Israel will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition. The Governments of the different peoples forming the world republic will fall without difficulty into the hands of the Jews. It will then be possible for the Jewish rulers to abolish private property, and everywhere to make use of the resources of the state. Thus will the promise of the Talmud be fulfilled, in which is said that when the Messianic time is come, the Jews will have all the property of the whole world in their hands" (from `La Revue de Paris', p. 574, June 1, 1928,
http://beta.communities.msn.ca/UndergroundOracleII).
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let's not forget staunchly anti-immigrant jorg haider of austria recently assassinated by mossad.
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I live in Manchester, England and I can tell you it's worse than you can believe.
If you visit this place for a weeks break or something you might think it's hunky dory, but to stay a few months you begin to understand how bad things really are.
The islamic terrorist threat has also lead to us having 1 surveillance camera per person. So our civil liberties have been eroded due to the mismanagement of the Government and their uncontrolled immigration policies that allow known islamists to come over and get welfare, which is practically state-funded self-destruction through stealth jihad and slow but sure islamisation on the country that gave us English common law and the Magna Carta... sickening to say the least :-\
Harder immigration laws and enforcement on shitty low level workers and and a broader immigration caps on educated people will help Europe and the US.
But its the opposite today, most immigrants are illegal because most are uneducated, but anyone with actually skills can't come because no serious company will hire an illegal engineer or doctor.
Deport ANYONE who is illegal....that's why they are called ILLEGAL!
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There's no reason you can't bring topics like this to the board but stay away from the racist stuff... If you're blaming something, identity a wrong in policy, ideology, belief, political, historical, but not an entire race. If threads like this get out of hand they will have to go. I don't want to see a bunch of Jews are evil threads started. Like saying the white world needs to wake up, it's a we're good they're evil line of thought, I don't like it, lean away from making posts like that.
can i use the word 'zionists' then? all jews are not zionists.
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can i use the word 'zionists' then? all jews are not zionists.
absolutely... zionism isn't a race... I just don't like to see all Jews lumped together because there are a lot of great Jews who don't deserved to be lumped into what some Jews do. Same goes for other races and religions.
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can i use the word 'zionists' then? all jews are not zionists.
Why bother, we all know you're anti-Jew, irrelevant of Zionism.
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absolutely... zionism isn't a race... I just don't like to see all Jews lumped together because there are a lot of great Jews who don't deserved to be lumped into what some Jews do. Same goes for other races and religions.
no problem, zionism is what im talking about anyway. the great yaroni is a jew after all.
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Why bother, we all know you're anti-Jew, irrelevant of Zionism.
::)
im anti-zionist only. i dont have any problem with a jew if they are not zionist, which many arent. when i say 'jews' i am not referring to people like say, yaroni avidan.
ive read alot of your posts and if you refrain from knee-jerk reaction to my posts and actually do some research you'll find a strong zionist relation to many of the things you 'detest'. i understand your reaction since you've been raised and conditioned since birth to think a certain way. its ok, i dont blame you for being ignorant, you're just a product of your zionist controlled environment.
hope this helps!
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::)
im anti-zionist only. i dont have any problem with a jew if they are not zionist, which many arent. when i say 'jews' i am not referring to people like say, yaroni avidan.
ive read alot of your posts and if you refrain from knee-jerk reaction to my posts and actually do some research you'll find a strong zionist relation to many of the things you 'detest'. i understand your reaction since you've been raised and conditioned since birth to think a certain way. its ok, i dont blame you for being ignorant, you're just a product of your zionist controlled environment.
hope this helps!
Of course you're only referring to Zionists ::)
Your blanket reference to Zionists as "Jews" is your problem, if you weren't privileged enough to fully grasp the English language then I can understand that.
My parents are two Norwegian hippies, I have spent my life in a country with a socialist party in power. Get off the know-it-all-juice, think outside your anti-Semitism and the belief Jews/Zionism are responsible for all the world's ills.
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Of course you're only referring to Zionists ::)
Your blanket reference to Zionists as "Jews" is your problem, if you weren't privileged enough to fully grasp the English language then I can understand that.
My parents are two Norwegian hippies, I have spent my life in a country with a socialist party in power. Get off the know-it-all-juice, think outside your anti-Semitism and the belief Jews/Zionism are responsible for all the world's ills.
1) obviously you dont even know what a zionist is. yes all im referring to is zionist jews, 100%.
2) i don't think zionism is responsible for all the world ills. im not a knowitall, but i do know its clear that you know nothing about zionism, the power/influence they yield or the things they are responsible for. facts, not conspiracy theories, are widely available for you to research. you're a typical product of mainstream media and schooling.
hope this helps!
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Of course you're only referring to Zionists ::)
Your blanket reference to Zionists as "Jews" is your problem, if you weren't privileged enough to fully grasp the English language then I can understand that.
My parents are two Norwegian hippies, I have spent my life in a country with a socialist party in power. Get off the know-it-all-juice, think outside your anti-Semitism and the belief Jews/Zionism are responsible for all the world's ills.
The guy corrected himself and clarified his position, does it really do any good to call him a liar? Why not just take is word for it? I thought you were a racist and in the end through your clarifications I took your word for it that you're not.
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also, a very large portion of the zionist movement are actually christians... It's more of a supporting role but it's a strong role and one with a big agenda.
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Of course you're only referring to Zionists ::)
Your blanket reference to Zionists as "Jews" is your problem, if you weren't privileged enough to fully grasp the English language then I can understand that.
My parents are two Norwegian hippies, I have spent my life in a country with a socialist party in power. Get off the know-it-all-juice, think outside your anti-Semitism and the belief Jews/Zionism are responsible for all the world's ills.
It's funny. Whenever Hugo or Jew-haters get called out on their anti-Jew hate, they change it to "Oh, I only hate Zionists" while they carry on their bigoted tirades.
Funny, because Hugo attacks other for prejudice. Irony!
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It's funny. Whenever Hugo or Jew-haters get called out on their anti-Jew hate, they change it to "Oh, I only hate Zionists" while they carry on their bigoted tirades.
Funny, because Hugo attacks other for prejudice. Irony!
I don't hate Jews moron and you're the first person to call me out today that I do ::) If you didn't notice, I'm the one who came in and attempted to shut down hate speech... Zionism isn't a race buddy, get yourself a clue... To say that one cannot have issue with a movement/ideology because Jews are associated with that movement IS racist, it's a superiority stance and it makes those who approach it as such dead ass wrong.
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also, a very large portion of the zionist movement are actually christians... It's more of a supporting role but it's a strong role and one with a big agenda.
yes,ike john hagee for example, have you ever watched one of his sermons?
'we must protect israel the bible tells us to or we will cease to exict'
'imagine a nuclear bomb in sanfran, detroit, new york, we must stop iran or we will die, he wants to wipe israel and us off the map, we must protect israel'
'hezbollah, hamas, we must stop them, we must protect israel'
israel is ALL the fucking guy talks about, he just constantly beats the AIPAC/zionist agenda into his followers heads through fearmongering and distortion of the bible.
he's a member of AIPAC.
nuff' said.
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I don't hate Jews moron and you're the first person to call me out today that I do ::) If you didn't notice, I'm the one who came in and attempted to shut down hate speech... Zionism isn't a race buddy, get yourself a clue... To say that one cannot have issue with a movement/ideology because Jews are associated with that movement IS racist, it's a superiority stance and it makes those who approach it as such dead ass wrong.
Where did I call or insinuate that Zionism is a race? Calm down short stuff, you're getting a little heated and slinging mud.
You've done your share of Jew bashing, gotten called out on it, and then changed your stance to "Oh, I only mean Zionists."
Meanwhile, you attack others for racism and bigotry. Hilarious and hypocritical. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I realize that every thread I read regarding how jews are bad and jews this has absolutely no substantiated claims or facts. It's nothing. And it usually gets knocked down by someone with an IQ over 40.
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yes,ike john hagee for example, have you ever watched one of his sermons?
'we must protect israel the bible tells us to or we will cease to exict'
'imagine a nuclear bomb in sanfran, detroit, new york, we must stop iran or we will die, he wants to wipe israel and us off the map, we must protect israel'
'hezbollah, hamas, we must stop them, we must protect israel'
israel is ALL the fucking guy talks about, he just constantly beats the AIPAC/zionist agenda into his followers heads.
he's a member of AIPAC.
nuff' said.
yea, in large it's a strong position of Evangelicals.
This is a good read giving some history behind why:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=86884.0
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Where did I call or insinuate that Zionism is a race? Calm down short stuff, you're getting a little heated and slinging mud.
You've done your share of Jew bashing, gotten called out on it, and then changed your stance to "Oh, I only mean Zionists."
Meanwhile, you attack others for racism and bigotry. Hilarious and hypocritical. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
I realize that every thread I read regarding how jews are bad and jews this has absolutely no substantiated claims or facts. It's nothing. And it usually gets knocked down by someone with an IQ over 40.
quotes please...
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1) obviously you dont even know what a zionist is. yes all im referring to is zionist jews, 100%.
2) i don't think zionism is responsible for all the world ills. im not a knowitall, but i do know its clear that you know nothing about zionism, the power/influence they yield or the things they are responsible for. facts, not conspiracy theories, are widely available for you to research. you're a typical product of mainstream media and schooling.
hope this helps!
I'm aware of what Zionism is and who its perpetrators are. I suggest you quit with the pretentious bullshit before you embarrass yourself.
I'm also aware of what negative impacts it has and how much of the media is Jewish owned in the US. Rather than chalk it up to Zionism (which undoubtedly some of it is) I'm more of the opinion that Jews have been outperforming pretty much every demographic (in relative terms) for much of recorded history.
Keep on the ad hominem trail mate, makes you look really educated and impartial to mainstream media with obvious Zionistic overtones.
The guy corrected himself and clarified his position, does it really do any good to call him a liar? Why not just take is word for it? I thought you were a racist and in the end through your clarifications I took your word for it that you're not.
How about you become less impartial and less naive? I have to call it how I see it, and that's how it is. Sure... I'm now of the persuasion he's maybe not totally anti-Semitism, but never the less, his language before you clarified what is right and wrong shows a different story.
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Great moderating ...if it said Black or Obama instead of Jew...ohh...Zionists , you would have banned the person that posted it....now we know what you think don't we?
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This is bullshit for one reason and one reason only...
NOT because the holocaust didn't happen, because it did, and the conventional numbers are right.
NOT because the Jews are taking over the world and want to punish people for disagreeing, because they aren't.
BUT because people should have the right to freely express WHATEVER opinion they have, regardless of its veracity. Denying the holocaust is an ignorant thing to do, but trying to punish people for doing so is even more ignorant. How else can people recgonize that these opinions are out there and how else can they learn how much B.S. they are if they are constantly silenced? To silence an opinion is to say that not only there is no truth at all to this opinion, but also absolutely nothing can be gained from this opinion being expressed. While there is obviously no truth to the opinion of holocaust denial, plenty can be gained from it being expressed by those who believe it including learning how to refute it.
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Of course you're only referring to Zionists ::)
Your blanket reference to Zionists as "Jews" is your problem, if you weren't privileged enough to fully grasp the English language then I can understand that.
My parents are two Norwegian hippies, I have spent my life in a country with a socialist party in power. Get off the know-it-all-juice, think outside your anti-Semitism and the belief Jews/Zionism are responsible for all the world's ills.
brutal irony considering your feelings towards all muslims ::)
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the modern orthodox Holocaust details have been set in stone as holy scripture and any researcher daring to dispute certain aspects are blasphemous heretics who will be smeared and prosecuted.
name one other HISTORICAL EVENT in which a researcher will be PROSECUTED for bringing forth possible alternative points.
NAME ONE
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Great moderating ...if it said Black or Obama instead of Jew...ohh...Zionists , you would have banned the person that posted it....now we know what you think don't we?
I'm trying my best. If you don't like what I do, you're free to run down and bitch in the complaints forum... that's what it is there for. I didn't like how Jews were being lumped here and I voiced that and it was received and corrected. not sure what more you could want from a mod standpoint but if you feel I suck, go start a thread...
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let's not forget staunchly anti-immigrant jorg haider of austria recently assassinated by mossad.
cmon man, comments like these make you look like a dumbass...
where are you even from?
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I'm trying my best. If you don't like what I do, you're free to run down and bitch in the complaints forum... that's what it is there for. I didn't like how Jews were being lumped here and I voiced that and it was received and corrected. not sure what more you could want from a mod standpoint but if you feel I suck, go start a thread...
After seeing all your posts walking blindly after a man who is receiving millions of dollars in fraudlent donations, I doubt that talking to your common sense and dignity will help :-\
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After seeing all your posts walking blindly after a man who is receiving millions of dollars in fraudlent donations, I doubt that talking to your common sense and dignity will help :-\
Fraudulent donations... haha... like it's with counterfeit money.
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After seeing all your posts walking blindly after a man who is receiving millions of dollars in fraudlent donations, I doubt that talking to your common sense and dignity will help :-\
wait, are you asking for threads critical of Zionism to be deleted? Are you unhappy with my vocal opposition to lumping all Jews into the same category? what do you want from me, let's get this out in the open. Do you think I inappropriately handled this and exactly what would you have rather seen happen?
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I am actually offended by the fraud accusation... I know a lot of people including myself who have given these small donations to Obama. We fill out our information when doing so... It's really offensive to everyone who gave their hard earned money to have you clowns say it's fraud. ::)
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I am actually offended by the fraud accusation... I know a lot of people including myself who have given these small donations to Obama. We fill out our information when doing so... It's really offensive to everyone who gave their hard earned money to have you clowns say it's fraud. ::)
I guess that you donated 100$ X 10000 times with the name sdoisjkdok sdoisjdoj from asodijoi in the state of soidjasod...that was you ? ::)
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I guess that you donated 100$ X 10000 times with the name sdoisjkdok sdoisjdoj from asodijoi in the state of soidjasod...that was you ? ::)
great response
you=dumbass
Why dont you answer him?
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great response
you=dumbass
Why dont you answer him?
Who's gimmick are you?
And to his question, for him to just let it slide that such racist views are stated here with such hate is ridicules, he justify it by them claiming they only meant Zionists as if that is less racist.
If someone will make racist comments about black or Hispanic people it will get deleted at once, and even if they rectify it and say they just meant they hate all interracial then it will be ok ::)
Funny thing is that they don't even know what a Zionist mean, I'm sure you don't too.
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Who's gimmick are you?
And to his question, for him to just let it slide that such racist views are stated here with such hate is ridicules, he justify it by them claiming they only meant Zionists as if that is less racist.
If someone will make racist comments about black or Hispanic people it will get deleted at once, and even if they rectify it and say they just meant they hate all interracial then it will be ok ::)
Funny thing is that they don't even know what a Zionist mean, I'm sure you don't too.
Why would you say im someone's gimmick? I could say im nobody's gimmick, but in the state GB is in, it wouldnt have much effect.
As regard your question: Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el, “the Land of Israel”), and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1] (thx to wikipedia)
Im pretty sure everybody here knows this, or does your translation differ?
btw i know my grammatical skills arent quite on par with the mayority here, but youll have to excuse me since English is not my native tongue ;D
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Why would you say im someone's gimmick? I could say im nobody's gimmick, but in the state GB is in, it wouldnt have much effect.
As regard your question: Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el, “the Land of Israel”), and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1] (thx to wikipedia)
Im pretty sure everybody here knows this, or does your translation differ?
btw i know my grammatical skills arent quite on par with the mayority here, but youll have to excuse me since English is not my native tongue ;D
Wiki is somewhat close, and you made my point.
So comments on Zionism are just as saying all Israelis (and others) are this or that. Sounds like racism to me.....
Not to mention stupid....Zionists rule the world...it's just someone feeling inferior to successful people...sad...truly sad.
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I'm aware of what Zionism is and who its perpetrators are. I suggest you quit with the pretentious bullshit before you embarrass yourself.
I'm also aware of what negative impacts it has and how much of the media is Jewish owned in the US. Rather than chalk it up to Zionism (which undoubtedly some of it is) I'm more of the opinion that Jews have been outperforming pretty much every demographic (in relative terms) for much of recorded history.
Keep on the ad hominem trail mate, makes you look really educated and impartial to mainstream media with obvious Zionistic overtones.
i don't like writing long posts. you said 'of course you're only reffering to zionists ::) ' - from what i was writing, yeah it's clear that's who im talking about if you know what 'zionism' is. understand? i dont know what else you expected me to think. . . i wasn't being 'pretentious'.
ill just talk about the US.
'outperforming' is fine. things like - controlling the info that gets to people/shaping public opinion, holding our politicians hostage to their agenda(which is far removed from the best interests of the US). for starters, is not fine.
we have alot of very powerful lobbies in the US, oil, drug companies, healthcare etc. but you will hear successful politicians criticize these lobbies often.
will you ever hear a succesful politician criticize AIPAC, or go against voting the AIPAC line? never, just look at how politicians must kiss their ass. . .
hope this helps!
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yea, in large it's a strong position of Evangelicals.
This is a good read giving some history behind why:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=86884.0
good stuff hugo, thx for the link.
i read one of the articles in there before, im checking out the rest now. .
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I guess that you donated 100$ X 10000 times with the name sdoisjkdok sdoisjdoj from asodijoi in the state of soidjasod...that was you ? ::)
WTF are you babbling about and why don't you answer my other question above? Please do, I want to know where I fucked up in your opinion and so others may also judge my work as mod. You leveled the accusation, let's hear it all out in fairness for everyone to see. I'm open to criticism.
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WTF are you babbling about and why don't you answer my other question above? Please do, I want to know where I fucked up in your opinion and so others may also judge my work as mod. You leveled the accusation, let's hear it all out in fairness for everyone to see. I'm open to criticism.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=242883.0
This is what I talked about in regards to the donations, the subject you and other Obama supporters ignored.
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i don't like writing long posts. you said 'of course you're only reffering to zionists ::) ' - from what i was writing, yeah it's clear that's who im talking about if you know what 'zionism' is. understand? i dont know what else you expected me to think. . . i wasn't being 'pretentious'.
ill just talk about the US.
'outperforming' is fine. things like - controlling the info that gets to people/shaping public opinion, holding our politicians hostage to their agenda(which is far removed from the best interests of the US). for starters, is not fine.
we have alot of very powerful lobbies in the US, oil, drug companies, healthcare etc. but you will hear successful politicians criticize these lobbies often.
will you ever hear a succesful politician criticize AIPAC, or go against voting the AIPAC line? never, just look at how politicians must kiss their ass. . .
hope this helps!
Like I said, Jews have substantial lobbying power due to their performance as a demographic. Do you think they should be barred from political lobbying?
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Like I said, Jews have substantial lobbying power due to their performance as a demographic.
i agree they are very high-performing people especially considering their numbers.
Do you think they should be barred from political lobbying?
AIPAC is just the tip of the iceberg but - yes, 100% they should be banned.
it's a lobby for interests foreign to the US and has been shown to have an extremely destructive effect on policy, foreign and domestic.
also - its not just that they are a powerful lobby, 'they' control the media, don't underestimate the power that yields.
if a politician goes against their agenda they:
1) trash them in the media or give hardly any coverage/dismiss them.
2) they support an opponent to them with finances and high support in the media.
this is not just lobbying, it's hijacking the American peoples government and like i said, holding our politicians hostage to their agenda.
it's dangerous and not acceptable.
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So you're not a proponent of capitalism and democracy?
They control the media through capitalism, if you don't like it, create your own media organisation and provide a better service. More whining because they're highly successful, plus you basically want to implement fascism on the lobbying of the US government... hmm...
BTW, do you believe in the holocaust against the Jews?
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Great. Lets punish the 'Jews' - they're too successful ::)
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Oh the irony. :)
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Great. Lets punish the 'Jews' - they're too successful ::)
Basically that's the crux of his "argument", and a key reason for the rise of Nazism in Germany.
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Basically that's the crux of his "argument", and a key reason for the rise of Nazism in Germany.
If anyone should be prohibited from breeding this anti intellectual white thrash group of no gooders would be one of the very first.
Germanism on the other hand - to be a fan of German culture - Nothing wrong with that. 8)
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we have alot of very powerful lobbies in the US, oil, drug companies, healthcare etc. but you will hear successful politicians criticize these lobbies often.
will you ever hear a succesful politician criticize AIPAC, or go against voting the AIPAC line? never, just look at how politicians must kiss their ass. . .
First stop to elected office is to kiss AIPAC's ass as much as humanly possible.
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Another good thread with good potential discussions ruined by anti-semantic conspiracy theorists.
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Basically that's the crux of his "argument", and a key reason for the rise of Nazism in Germany.
ok, i concede.
i am just jealous of jew success in controlling the flow of information, hijacking governments and exploiting their host countries. in reality they should be commended and welcomed with open arms, they've done so much good for the world.
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Another good thread with good potential discussions ruined by anti-semantic conspiracy theorists.
please quote the posts with conspiracy theories.
thanks bro.
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First stop to elected office is to kiss AIPAC's ass as much as humanly possible.
good post CQ. in your opinion do you think anything should be done about their stranglehold on the US government? or should we let the free market sort things out like 'nordic superman' suggests? apparently it would be fascist to do otherwise.
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- another small rant, please excuse my bitterness about jews being 'too successful' -
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a couple of other great jewish contributions to the world:
1) bolshevik revolution/communism
2) russias oligarchs/oligarchic system after the collapse of communism
what would we do without these great people?
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please quote the posts with conspiracy theories.
thanks bro.
You posting here is in complete contradiction to your theory, this is an ISRAELI & JEWISH site.
I never remember his name but one of the top ten billionaires of the world made his money from the media, some Mexican dude, I'm sure he got tons of agenda to support Jewish people.
There are MANY Christian/Muslims/racists like you with money if it was true they would create their own network TV/Cable TV/Newspapers and others.
The internet is the STRONGEST media out there today and you know for a FACT that there is PLENTY of anti Jew content in it.
So ...in summary...get a life.
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There are MANY Christian/Muslims/racists like you with money if it was true they would create their own network TV/Cable TV/Newspapers and others.
The internet is the STRONGEST media out there today and you know for a FACT that there is PLENTY of anti Jew content in it.
Have you seen the World Harvest Network or TBN on cable / DirecTV / Dish?
Trust me... The message is kind of out there, for pro christianity... The question is:
How far will they take those channels?
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You posting here is in complete contradiction to your theory, this is an ISRAELI & JEWISH site.
I never remember his name but one of the top ten billionaires of the world made his money from the media, some Mexican dude, I'm sure he got tons of agenda to support Jewish people.
There are MANY Christian/Muslims/racists like you with money if it was true they would create their own network TV/Cable TV/Newspapers and others.
The internet is the STRONGEST media out there today and you know for a FACT that there is PLENTY of anti Jew content in it.
So ...in summary...get a life.
carlos slim is who you're thinking about and he made his money mainly from his monopoly on telecom in mexico. you post really doesnt address anything ive said.
please note my posts regarding yaroni avidan(owner of this site)
thanks.
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Ok guys....since there are no white christian rich men in the world, I'm really afraid that Jewish people will rule the world with their money. Same can be said for the PLENTY of RICH RICH extreme Muslims that have an agenda against Jewish people, they can just buy the networks or create new ones so your point is moot at best.
Even with their great success the Jewish people are such a small minority they can EASILY be overshadowed.
And last but not least, internet >>>>>> networks so please don't preach about your conspiracy theories here.
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good post CQ. in your opinion do you think anything should be done about their stranglehold on the US government? or should we let the free market sort things out like 'nordic superman' suggests? apparently it would be fascist to do otherwise.
How's it a good post? She made a statement which agrees with your position, but had no explanation , but you think that's a good post? Ha ha, do you seem me saying "good post" to everyone who agrees with my position...
It's fascist to censor Jewish organisations who have a pro-Jewish agenda. All companies and organisations lobby in support of their own group.
Nice extensive list of negative contributions the Jews have give the world... somehow forgetting Einstein and other scientific elite and Nobel Prize winners ::)
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How's it a good post? She made a statement which agrees with your position, but had no explanation , but you think that's a good post? Ha ha, do you seem me saying "good post" to everyone who agrees with my position...
It's fascist to censor Jewish organisations who have a pro-Jewish agenda. All companies and organisations lobby in support of their own group.
Nice extensive list of negative contributions the Jews have give the world... somehow forgetting Einstein and other scientific elite and Nobel Prize winners ::)
Yeah this thread is just filled with negative Jewish or Zionists actions ::)
He just proved he is 110% racist lol.
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How's it a good post? She made a statement which agrees with your position, but had no explanation , but you think that's a good post? Ha ha, do you seem me saying "good post" to everyone who agrees with my position...
It's fascist to censor Jewish organisations who have a pro-Jewish agenda. All companies and organisations lobby in support of their own group.
Nice extensive list of negative contributions the Jews have give the world... somehow forgetting Einstein and other scientific elite and Nobel Prize winners ::)
LOL. Jews have won more Nobel Prizes than any other demographic and have given the world more things than can count.
But the internet is a wonderful thing where stupid people have educated themselves on conspiracy sites about the "Zionists" controlling every single thing in the world. ::)
I tied my left shoe first this morning. Zionist conspiracy!
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LOL. Jews have won more Nobel Prizes than any other demographic and have given the world more things than can count.
But the internet is a wonderful thing where stupid people have educated themselves on conspiracy sites about the "Zionists" controlling every single thing in the world. ::)
I tied my left shoe first this morning. Zionist conspiracy!
;D