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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: First Blood on October 27, 2008, 09:24:11 AM
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i just read an article on training theory that says every body part should be trained twice a week because protein synthesis drops after 24 hours or some such...if that is so..why do most bodybuilders use routines such as: legs,chest,back,shoulders,arms rest weekends etc. (like one body part per day)
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TRaining to get a base built, and training at an advanced level as a pro...are two different worlds.
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TRaining to get a base built, and training at an advanced level as a pro...are two different worlds.
but how should someone who has been training for a few years train? but who isnt a pro..but wants to look like a bodybuilder.
could someone who isnt a pro use like a 5 day split working one body part per day?
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i just read an article on training theory that says every body part should be trained twice a week because protein synthesis drops after 24 hours or some such...if that is so..why do most bodybuilders use routines such as: legs,chest,back,shoulders,arms rest weekends etc. (like one body part per day)
If i had a gun i would shoot you >:(
They can do it because drugs will help repair there muscles sooner if you are drug free one body part per week thats it
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If i had a gun i would shoot you >:(
They can do it because drugs will help repair there muscles sooner if you are drug free one body part per week thats it
why i think its a valid question?
no actually the article said that if your natural you would be better of working muscle groups twice a week..because protein synthesis isnt elevated all the time as it is for people who use drugs.
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I believe 2x a week for smaller bodyparts,
once for bigger ones.
calves 4x a week
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I believe 2x a week for smaller bodyparts,
once for bigger ones.
calves 4x a week
how would you set up a routine? and has that method given you results?
id love if people could share their real world experiences so i could compare them to what theory says.
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The difference it makes is so minimal it is hardly worth worrying about.
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i just read an article on training theory that says every body part should be trained twice a week because protein synthesis drops after 24 hours or some such...if that is so..why do most bodybuilders use routines such as: legs,chest,back,shoulders,arms rest weekends etc. (like one body part per day)
I could never train ie chest or legs twice a week. I've often soreness there for 4 days after a workout.
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i just read an article on training theory that says every body part should be trained twice a week because protein synthesis drops after 24 hours or some such...if that is so..why do most bodybuilders use routines such as: legs,chest,back,shoulders,arms rest weekends etc. (like one body part per day)
hi bluto ::)
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The difference it makes is so minimal it is hardly worth worrying about.
thats good to hear...then ill probably stick to a 4 or 5 day split.
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u guys worry too much about the little things
just train eat and grow
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The difference it makes is so minimal it is hardly worth worrying about.
i wonder how many % the difference is tho? they should do a study on that
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how would you set up a routine? and has that method given you results?
id love if people could share their real world experiences so i could compare them to what theory says.
You train the small musclegroups automatically twice a week, as you always stimulate the biceps again in your back workout, tris in your chest workout etc.
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I could never train ie chest or legs twice a week. I've often soreness there for 4 days after a workout.
yeah but doesnt that depend on how the workout looks like? are you going to failure..how many sets are you doing? for example if you work chest twice a week obviously you wont be able to do 4exercises and 4 sets per exericse on both workouts
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i did chest 2 times a week and it sucked bcause i lost strength, a natural should keep the workouts as simple short and heavy as possible and eat good food, most here are fucked with genetics theres not much to be done about it.
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You train the small musclegroups automatically twice a week, as you always stimulate the biceps again in your back workout, tris in your chest workout etc.
unless you do chest/triceps and back/biceps...
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i did chest 2 times a week and it sucked bcause i lost strength, a natural should keep the workouts as simple short and heavy as possible and eat good food, most here are fucked with genetics theres not much to be done about it.
thanks man..its stuff like this i like to hear..peoples real experiences...some things sound good in theory but dont work so well in real life
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u guys worry too much about the little things
just train eat and grow
then why did you ask bob cicherillo a question. i think this is an important question...
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i did chest 2 times a week and it sucked bcause i lost strength, a natural should keep the workouts as simple short and heavy as possible and eat good food, most here are fucked with genetics theres not much to be done about it.
whats your bw? how strong are you? with what routine did you make the most progress if you think back in time?
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then why did you ask bob cicherillo a question. i think this is an important question...
u make no sense noob
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All bodyparts should be hit twice a week (or at least twice every 8 days) if you are natural and/or building.
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I squat 2-3 times a week, row 2 times a week, do presses 2 times a week etc. and I've gained a lot harder than the average (serious)lifter.
Pretty much everyone I know who trained high frequency made really decent gains with it.
But - training to failure every workout is a huge stress on your CNS, and you will overtrain quickly if you do so.
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All bodyparts should be hit twice a week (or at least twice every 8 days) if you are natural and/or building.
ahh i get all confused....
have you compared once a week with twice a week (on your own body)
and how would you set up such a split?
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just try it out for yourself, there is no one "right way" to do it.
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I squat 2-3 times a week, row 2 times a week, do presses 2 times a week etc. and I've gained a lot harder than the average (serious)lifter.
Pretty much everyone I know who trained high frequency made really decent gains with it.
But - training to failure every workout is a huge stress on your CNS, and you will overtrain quickly if you do so.
were they people who had been training a few years? and how do i work everything 2x/week without burning out?
damn i have a hard time holding back when i workout...i have to workout very hard..or i cant get motivated..even when i say i should do a light workout it turns into a hard one.
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just try it out for yourself, there is no one "right way" to do it.
ok but can you guarentee that both methods work? i dont mind if one works slower than the other..i just want to know if both work...?
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I believe 2x a week for smaller bodyparts,
once for bigger ones.
calves 4x a week
Things like biceps, triceps, etc should only be once a week imo since they are trained by doing other indirect movements. Calves 4 x a week?? Are you only doing 2 sets per workout or?
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Things like biceps, triceps, etc should only be once a week imo since they are trained by doing other indirect movements. Calves 4 x a week?? Are you only doing 2 sets per workout or?
everybody is saying different things...lol makes you very confused!
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like i said, theres no right way to do something, the thing i only see is that beginners train wayyy too much and eat like garbage. food=key
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ahh i get all confused....
have you compared once a week with twice a week (on your own body)
and how would you set up such a split?
I did once a week for years. I gained BUT nothing like on twice a week - Stick to good old fashioned volume too. Work EACH bodypart for 20min to half an hour, medium weights, just enough to hit 12 reps on EVERY set with only 30 seconds rest between sets. This way you should be able to WORK UP TO 18-20 sets per bodypart. Keep movements piston like, medium speed, working in mid range not full range and feel throughout. The split is up to you really.
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I did once a week for years. I gained BUT nothing like on twice a week - Stick to good old fashioned volume too. Work EACH bodypart for 20min to half an hour, medium weights, just enough to hit 12 reps on EVERY set with only 30 seconds rest between sets. This way you should be able to WORK UP TO 18-20 sets per bodypart. Keep movements piston like, medium speed, working in mid range not full range and feel throughout. The split is up to you really.
cool, ill try that..but how twice a week..only method i can think of is if do half body in workout A and other half in other work (B)..but then its impossible to do 20 set per bodypart?
or maybe if i split body in 3 parts..and train like 3 days then one rest day then 3 days again? but doesnt your body get tired of you workout so many days per week?
sorry im not trying to annoy you guys i just wanna learn about this stuff.
mars says once a week and you say twice a week.
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I did once a week for years. I gained BUT nothing like on twice a week - Stick to good old fashioned volume too. Work EACH bodypart for 20min to half an hour, medium weights, just enough to hit 12 reps on EVERY set with only 30 seconds rest between sets. This way you should be able to WORK UP TO 18-20 sets per bodypart. Keep movements piston like, medium speed, working in mid range not full range and feel throughout. The split is up to you really.
how much muscle did you gain when you started training twice a week (per muscle)?
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cool, ill try that..but how twice a week..only method i can think of is if do half body in workout A and other half in other work (B)..but then its impossible to do 20 set per bodypart?
or maybe if i split body in 3 parts..and train like 3 days then one rest day then 3 days again? but doesnt your body get tired of you workout so many days per week?
sorry im not trying to annoy you guys i just wanna learn about this stuff.
mars says once a week and you say twice a week.
What do you weigh, now how big are you and how heavy do you lift, and what do you eat per day this will help us help you 8)
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were they people who had been training a few years?
Yes.
and how do i work everything 2x/week without burning out?
You could start using a upperbody/lowerbody split, that means you train your upperbody twice a week, and lowerbody twice a week as well.
For example:
Monday: UB
Wednesday: LB
Friday: UB
Saturday: LB
Don't go to failure, going to failure DOES NOT promote extra muscle growth or strength gain, and your central nervous system has to recover a lot longer than when you don't lift to failure.
This basically means that if you benchpress 3 sets to failure in your upperbody workout, your CNS is still recovering on your second UB workout that week. No CNS recovery = strength loss.
If you don't go to failure, your CNS will recover a lot faster, so you can train more frequent = a more frequent growth impulse.
Also, by doing a certain movement 2 times a week, your motor patterns for that movement gets a lot more practice than when you would only be doing that movement only once a week.
Better motor patterns = more strength.
Another tip: don't stick too long with the same exercises, vary a lot in your workouts.
I've been training with a simple split too, but after I switched to high frequency and put more effort in the basic compound movements instead of useless exercises like flyes, leg extensions etc. then the real gains started.
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What do you weigh, now how big are you and how heavy do you lift, and what do you eat per day this will help us help you 8)
im 5'7 weigh 165-170lbs ....last week i squatted 315 for 3 reps, i can deadlift 405 for 5 reps (i think i can do more but i dont like deadlifts..i do straight leg deadlifts for hamstrings tho)....dont do bench press right now but can do 225x4-5
..but i prefer dbs...i use 80lbs dbs on inclinbe db press for 9-10 reps
i probably eat 2500-2800 calories per day..protein 140-180g
but mostly im interested in how many timer per week you should train a muscle group and hear about real world results with both methods (1x vs 2x)
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Yes.
You could start using a upperbody/lowerbody split, that means you train your upperbody twice a week, and lowerbody twice a week as well.
For example:
Monday: UB
Wednesday: LB
Friday: UB
Saturday: LB
Don't go to failure, going to failure DOES NOT promote extra muscle growth or strength gain, and your central nervous system has to recover a lot longer than when you don't lift to failure.
This basically means that if you benchpress 3 sets to failure in your upperbody workout, your CNS is still recovering on your second UB workout that week. No CNS recovery = strength loss.
If you don't go to failure, your CNS will recover a lot faster, so you can train more frequent = a more frequent growth impulse.
Also, by doing a certain movement 2 times a week, your motor patterns for that movement gets a lot more practice than when you would only be doing that movement only once a week.
Better motor patterns = more strength.
Another tip: don't stick too long with the same exercises, vary a lot in your workouts.
thanks man ;) good tips..only problem is i hate A/B workouts...too many muscle groups per session.. (for me....even if its good in theory)
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thanks man ;) good tips..only problem is i hate A/B workouts...too many muscle groups per session.. (for me....even if its good in theory)
Use mostly compound movements, who the fuck cares about flyes, machine curls or tricep kickbacks.
Presses, rows, chins, all squat variants, gm's, all forms of deadlifts (not too often though, as this is a lift you easily overtrain on), and basic curls, or frenchpresses are the exercises you should be doing, and you will be rewarded doing them.
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im 5'7 weigh 165-170lbs ....last week i squatted 315 for 3 reps, i can deadlift 405 for 5 reps (i think i can do more but i dont like deadlifts..i do straight leg deadlifts for hamstrings tho)....dont do bench press right now but can do 225x4-5
..but i prefer dbs...i use 80lbs dbs on inclinbe db press for 9-10 reps
i probably eat 2500-2800 calories per day..protein 140-180g
but mostly im interested in how many timer per week you should train a muscle group and hear about real world results with both methods (1x vs 2x)
I do
TUE - SHOULDERS AND BACK THEN ABS
THUR -LEGGS ABS CALFS
FRI -CHEST BIS TRIS ABBS CALFS THATS IT .. IM 225 AT 5'11 MY PICS ARE ON THE PICS BOARD
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I do
TUE - SHOULDERS AND BACK THEN ABS
THUR -LEGGS ABS CALFS
FRI -CHEST BIS TRIS ABBS CALFS THATS IT .. IM 225 AT 5'11 MY PICS ARE ON THE PICS BOARD
thanks man...how much have you gained using that routine in the last year?
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fuck..cant decide what to do...this is seriously messing with my head.
so many different routines...
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bump...would like to hear more opinions?
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like i said, theres no right way to do something, the thing i only see is that beginners train wayyy too much and eat like garbage. food=key
Exactly, fact is you should try the 2x per week, then 6 weeks later change it up again. Food is the most important factor, however, consistently being inconsistent (if that makes sense) is what has worked the most for me. I never do the same workout twice, be it exercises, rep scheme, rest periods, tempo etc.....
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Exactly, fact is you should try the 2x per week, then 6 weeks later change it up again. Food is the most important factor, however, consistently being inconsistent (if that makes sense) is what has worked the most for me. I never do the same workout twice, be it exercises, rep scheme, rest periods, tempo etc.....
thanks man..but that made me even more confused lol
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thanks man..but that made me even more confused lol
The thing is, always change the stimulus. One week do 4 x 12, then the next do 2 x 50 or something like that. Your muscles should never know whats about to hit them ;D
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how much muscle did you gain when you started training twice a week (per muscle)?
I was adding 3-4 quality pounds of muscle a year on once a week. Have been training like that for Approx 20 years so as a natural I thought I had done great. Went twice a week about a year ago and I am have transformed my physique! I am 5 pounds heavier but A LOT leaner (waist down from 37 inches to 32 inches) and have a lot more more muscle (arms up from 15.75 inches to 17.25 inches COLD).
OLD SCHOOL IS THE WAY TO GO.
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Not trying to be mean, but ;D if come back in 2-4 years and read this post, after years of working out, you'll see how dumb of a ? this is. If you found the perfect and I mean absolute perfect routine, it would still only work for 2 months or so before you have to try something else. So to answer your ?, by all means try everything and see for yourself. I know you think your wasting time not working out the most efficiently, but remember, adaptation is key to bigger better muscles. You have to keep them constantly adapting, and you accomplish by change in routines. :D
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I was adding 3-4 quality pounds of muscle a year on once a week. Have been training like that for Approx 20 years so as a natural I thought I had done great. Went twice a week about a year ago and I am have transformed my physique! I am 5 pounds heavier but A LOT leaner (waist down from 37 inches to 32 inches) and have a lot more more muscle (arms up from 15.75 inches to 17.25 inches COLD).
OLD SCHOOL IS THE WAY TO GO.
wow thats impressive....would love to hear more about how your workout?
everything is hit twice a week? 18-20 sets per bodypart...30 sec rest between sets? do you go to failure? how do you split it up`?
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I use a 4 day split and train 6x a week
i have also used a 3 day split (chest/back legs shoulders/arms)
Making great gains size and strength
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wow thats impressive....would love to hear more about how your workout?
everything is hit twice a week? 18-20 sets per bodypart...30 sec rest between sets? do you go to failure?
To failure once a week then a little lighter and not quite on the second workouts (working for the pump there) - Was splitting body into 3 workouts for 3 months but work and family were neglected so now - Quads, Chest, Delts on day one (for both Saturday and Tuesday) and Hamstrings, Back and arms on Days Two (for both Sunday and Wednesday) - Thursday and Friday = REST and EAT.
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Not trying to be mean, but ;D if come back in 2-4 years and read this post, after years of working out, you'll see how dumb of a ? this is. If you found the perfect and I mean absolute perfect routine, it would still only work for 2 months or so before you have to try something else. So to answer your ?, by all means try everything and see for yourself. I know you think your wasting time not working out the most efficiently, but remember, adaptation is key to bigger better muscles. You have to keep them constantly adapting, and you accomplish by change in routines. :D
na i understand :)
but that doesnt answer the main question...once a week vs twice a week. i know you have to change your routine now and then...
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I use a 4 day split and train 6x a week
i have also used a 3 day split (chest/back legs shoulders/arms)
Making great gains size and strength
wow 6days a week? doesnt that make you tired? do you know alot of other people who workout 6 days a week? like in your gym etc? so you train a muscle like 1.5 times per week?
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Go read and absorb this thread - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=109977.0
I've made the best gains of my life following the advice on this thread and I'm nearly 39!!
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guys what do you think of this compromise?
mon:legs
tue:chest/back
wed:rest
thur:shoulders/arms
fri:rest
sat:legs
sun:chest/back
mon:rest
tue:shoulders/arms
wed:rest
etc..
9-12 sets per body part....6-12 reps
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Muscle gets hit 3x in 2 weeks.
If i feel tired (rare) i wont train. I NEVER train to failure. I cycle weights and dont go mad on the volume.
A few others in my gym train 5/6 times a week. Maybe 6-8 that i know of.
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Go read and absorb this thread - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=109977.0
I've made the best gains of my life following the advice on this thread and I'm nearly 39!!
damn i seen pics of him he is awesome...i will read it..thanks ;)
just one question...lots of pros today train muscles once a week and they are bigger than him eventhough he trained the muscles twice a week...?
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Muscle gets hit 3x in 2 weeks.
If i feel tired (rare) i wont train. I NEVER train to failure. I cycle weights and dont go mad on the volume.
A few others in my gym train 5/6 times a week. Maybe 6-8 that i know of.
thanks man i think ill start avoiding failure.....
im impressed you can workout 6 days a week..you must have great recovery....do the other guys who train 5-6days a week get good results?
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yes. Though bear in mind nearly all of these people (bar 1) are under 23.
They are getting very very strong and quickly too. I have good recovery i think plus i eat a shit lot of food. I enjoy trianing and keep it fun. Focusing on the main compound movements as they are more important.
Your split looks fine to me mate. But avoid failure at all costs
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damn i seen pics of him he is awesome...i will read it..thanks ;)
just one question...lots of pros today train muscles once a week and they are bigger than him eventhough he trained the muscles twice a week...?
DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS ..... They all end up at 11 stone when they stop training, Serge is 70 yrs old, 220 pounds and still has 20 inch arms. Here he was training last week http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cIPZgmxgg_s
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yes. Though bear in mind nearly all of these people (bar 1) are under 23.
They are getting very very strong and quickly too. I have good recovery i think plus i eat a shit lot of food. I enjoy trianing and keep it fun. Focusing on the main compound movements as they are more important.
Your split looks fine to me mate. But avoid failure at all costs
cool i think ill use the split i wrote or this one:
do you think you can get good gains using this kind of split:
back
chest
legs
rest
shoulders
arms
rest
back etc...
(5day split)
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DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS ..... They all end up at 11 stone when they stop training, Serge is 70 yrs old, 220 pounds and still has 20 inch arms. Here he was training last week http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cIPZgmxgg_s
yeah i was thinking that......damn that video is sick. do you think todays guys would be even bigger if they trained like nubret?
did serge use drugs?
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i just read an article on training theory that says every body part should be trained twice a week because protein synthesis drops after 24 hours or some such...if that is so..why do most bodybuilders use routines such as: legs,chest,back,shoulders,arms rest weekends etc. (like one body part per day)
wow
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wow
ill try to find the link if you dont believe me..
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yeah i was thinking that......damn that video is sick. do you think todays guys would be even bigger if they trained like nubret?
Probably, but they don't need to. Its all about drugs and money now. Avoid the pro side like the plague....
Best advice is to bodybuild for the pleasure of it - work on building quality muscle ONLY in all the right balance. Get rid of any excess fat (sensibly) and ENJOY.
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ill try to find the link if you dont believe me..
The reason we do split routines becaue to effectivley stress every muscle (entire body) every day, it would take 3 hours to train. I mean to stress the muscle enough for drastic growth.
also attention span and intensity only lasts about 1hour and 15 min for weight training.
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Probably, but they don't need to. Its all about drugs and money now. Avoid the pro side like the plague....
Best advice is to bodybuild for the pleasure of it - work on building quality muscle ONLY in all the right balance. Get rid of any excess fat (sensibly) and ENJOY.
yeah i love working out in the morning..45-60min...always a great start to the day..i dont like working out in the evening after your tired from work etc...
i think 5 days per week would be perfect...but im worrying about that if i work a muscle once a week i wont get any results...but i worry that if i try working a muscle twice a week i will get too tired. what do you think of using serge style on the split i wrote earlier(where you train everything 1.5 times per week) ?
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The reason we do split routines becaue to effectivley stress every muscle (entire body) every day, it would take 3 hours to train. I mean to stress the muscle enough for drastic growth.
also attention span and intensity only lasts about 1hour and 15 min for weight training.
yeah..true..but i wasnt suggesting fullbody routines....those are mostly for newbies i think.
i have noticed for me the limit is about 45-60min..then i start loosing focus
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wow 6days a week? doesnt that make you tired? do you know alot of other people who workout 6 days a week? like in your gym etc? so you train a muscle like 1.5 times per week?
ive always gotten best results with a 5 day repeating split. no days off. every couple weeks, or whenever i feel tired, ill take a break for however long i need to ffeel motivated again. normally about once every 20 daysd or so i take one day off. sometimes 2 or 3.
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did serge use drugs?
lol.
yes, of course. look at him. you dont look like a pro bodybuilder without them.
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ive always gotten best results with a 5 day repeating split. no days off. every couple weeks, or whenever i feel tired, ill take a break for however long i need to ffeel motivated again. normally about once every 20 daysd or so i take one day off. sometimes 2 or 3.
thats impressive..but i dont think i could do that, i think i need 2 rest days per week...
how would you set up my training program?
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lol.
yes, of course. look at him. you dont look like a pro bodybuilder without them.
but he wasnt as big as the pros today... if he used drugs too..how do we know that the workout actually matters? maybe drugs let you train in anyway you want...grr..frustrating lol
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lol.
yes, of course. look at him. you dont look like a pro bodybuilder without them.
and if he used drugs too and todays pros use drugs...it must be the training that is making todays pros bigger than him?
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and if he used drugs too and todays pros use drugs...it must be the training that is making todays pros bigger than him?
different drugs, better knowledge of how to use the drugs, and better supplements also.
thats impressive..but i dont think i could do that, i think i need 2 rest days per week...
how would you set up my training program?
the advice youve gotten so far is good. i cant tell you what will be best for you. but i know what works best for me... this is my split
chest calves
quads hams
back calves
shoulders calves
bi's tri's
repeat
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different drugs, better knowledge of how to use the drugs, and better supplements also.
the advice youve gotten so far is good. i cant tell you what will be best for you. but i know what works best for me... this is my split
chest calves
quads hams
back calves
shoulders calves
bi's tri's
repeat
ok i think ill just have to choose one routine...
what do you think off the chest/back, legs, shoulders/arms routine...where i hit everything every fifth day?
maybe ill do that for 6 weeks then do a 5 day split with 2 rest days per week
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i would rather see you do
frontdelts/sidedelts/chest/triceps
back/biceps/rear delts/traps
quads/hams/calves/
rest
repeat
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you culd do something like this
day 1
incline press
flat bench
barbell press
side laterals
closegrip bench
rope pulldowns
day 2
deadlifts
rows
pulldowns
bb curls
shrugs
day 3
squats
leg press
stiffleg deads
lying ham curls
standing calf raise
day 4
rest
repeat
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i would rather see you do
frontdelts/sidedelts/chest/triceps
back/biceps/rear delts/traps
quads/hams/calves/
rest
repeat
cool ill write down that routine too....but wont i be tired when i do chest if i do delts first?
and 6 days a week will make me tired i think. i think 5 days per week is good.
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you culd do something like this
day 1
incline press
flat bench
barbell press
side laterals
closegrip bench
rope pulldowns
day 2
deadlifts
rows
pulldowns
bb curls
shrugs
day 3
squats
leg press
stiffleg deads
lying ham curls
standing calf raise
day 4
rest
repeat
thanks will save that too
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the key is to have fun.
have fun , lift heavy, and eat alot of dead animal. dont worry about all the small shit.
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the key is to have fun.
have fun , lift heavy, and eat alot of dead animal. dont worry about all the small shit.
yeah i know..i always worry about stuff...too much. wish i didnt...
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you culd do something like this
day 1
incline press
flat bench
barbell press
side laterals
closegrip bench
rope pulldowns
day 2
deadlifts
rows
pulldowns
bb curls
shrugs
day 3
squats
leg press
stiffleg deads
lying ham curls
standing calf raise
day 4
rest
repeat
Leg day the day after deadlifts is not a good idea imo.
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then your a pussy.
;D lol nah, i hear that from guys before, forme its not a problemm i dont seem to get any quad work from deads, but if its a problem then it oculd easily be switched up
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I would do
1. Chest/back
2. legs(inc deadlifts)
3. shoulders/arms
possibly a day off then repeat.
Tbombz...i like your exercise choices on day 1 and 2 in particular...squats obviously on day 3. You have an idea what you are doing but i will just agree to disagree with you on the split
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TRaining to get a base built, and training at an advanced level as a pro...are two different worlds.
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McLester JR., Bishop P., & Guilliams M. Comparison of 1 and 3 day per week of equal volume resistance training in experienced subjects. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 1999 31(5 Supp) pp.S117
Nosaka K, Newton M. Repeated Eccentric Exercise Bouts Do Not Exacerbate Muscle Damage and Repair. Journal of Strength and Conditioning. 2002 Feb;16(1):117-122
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why do bodybuilders use split routines?
It might be to gain muscle??? Just my Opinion...
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I would do
1. Chest/back
2. legs(inc deadlifts)
3. shoulders/arms
possibly a day off then repeat.
Tbombz...i like your exercise choices on day 1 and 2 in particular...squats obviously on day 3. You have an idea what you are doing but i will just agree to disagree with you on the split
goudy yeah that was the split i thought about using..but only problem is that if i do shoulders/arms..i need more than one rest day before i can hit chest/back...thats why i put leg day first..
legs
chest/back
rest
shoulder/arms
rest
legs
etc..
i think this will be the split i use...this way i train every bodypart 1.5 times per week (compromise between once a week vs twice a week)
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McLester JR., Bishop P., & Guilliams M. Comparison of 1 and 3 day per week of equal volume resistance training in experienced subjects. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 1999 31(5 Supp) pp.S117
Nosaka K, Newton M. Repeated Eccentric Exercise Bouts Do Not Exacerbate Muscle Damage and Repair. Journal of Strength and Conditioning. 2002 Feb;16(1):117-122
hey can you explain what those studies say?
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McLester JR., Bishop P., & Guilliams M. Comparison of 1 and 3 day per week of equal volume resistance training in experienced subjects. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 1999 31(5 Supp) pp.S117
Nosaka K, Newton M. Repeated Eccentric Exercise Bouts Do Not Exacerbate Muscle Damage and Repair. Journal of Strength and Conditioning. 2002 Feb;16(1):117-122
i think i agree with you io. i hear layne talking about the fqact his puny legs finally started to grow after he stopped listening to old timers and started payign attention to the science. he says twice a week is best also, and layne is someone i would call an expert. i think ill switch my routine from
chest
quads hams
back
shoulders
arms
and make into this
workout 1 chest // workout 2 arms
workout 1 back //workout 2 shoulders
workout 1 quads // workout 2 hams
rest
repeat
thatll give me a day off every week and hitting every muscle twice a week.
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i think i agree with you io. i hear layne talking about the fqact his puny legs finally started to grow after he stopped listening to old timers and started payign attention to the science. he says twice a week is best also, and layne is someone i would call an expert. i think ill switch my routine from
chest
quads hams
back
shoulders
arms
and make into this
workout 1 chest // workout 2 arms
workout 1 back //workout 2 shoulders
workout 1 quads // workout 2 hams
rest
repeat
thatll give me a day off every week and hitting every muscle twice a week.
twice per day? wont your shoulders be tired if you do chest on day one and shoulders on day 2?
you get many more options if you workout 2 times per day....but im too lazy to do that lol..would be too much :)
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twice per day? wont your shoulders be tired if you do chest on day one and shoulders on day 2?
you get many more options if you workout 2 times per day....but im too lazy to do that lol..would be too much :)
i made that ina bout 30 seconds. your right it might need some revisions. i wont switch tomorrow or anything, so i can revise it over the next few days. its just to contibute to the conversation.
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i made that ina bout 30 seconds. your right it might need some revisions. i wont switch tomorrow or anything, so i can revise it over the next few days. its just to contibute to the conversation.
arnold and those guys worked out twice per day....but i dont understand how they had the energy to do it
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Drugs may just have had something to do with energy levels but if you ask them they will say Red Meat.Is there something????
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goudy yeah that was the split i thought about using..but only problem is that if i do shoulders/arms..i need more than one rest day before i can hit chest/back...thats why i put leg day first..
legs
chest/back
rest
shoulder/arms
rest
legs
etc..
i think this will be the split i use...this way i train every bodypart 1.5 times per week (compromise between once a week vs twice a week)
If ypou need the rest by all accounts take the rest. I never though like i se di recover fast.
Its a nice routine i would stick to it and keep it very siomple in terms of exercises
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If ypou need the rest by all accounts take the rest. I never though like i se di recover fast.
Its a nice routine i would stick to it and keep it very siomple in terms of exercises
goudy do you think you have to do squats for big quads?
what do you think of this leg routine:
legpress 5-6 sets (pyramid)
leg extension 4-5 sets
leg curl 5-6sets
stiff leg deadlift 4-5 sets (pyramid)
my goal is to have decent quads....upper body is much more important
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Frequency is important, consider this study I cited earlier:
"Subjects were randomly assigned to 1 of 2 groups: 1 day per week of 3 sets to failure (1DAY) or 3 days per week of 1 set to failure (3DAY). "
"The 1RMs increased (p 0.05) significantly for the combined groups over time. The 1DAY group achieved 62% of the 1RM increases observed in the 3DAY group in both upper-body and lower-body lifts. Larger increases in lean body mass were apparent in the 3DAY group. "
"From a dose-response perspective, with the total volume of exercise held constant, spreading the training frequency to 3 doses per week produced superior results."
- McLester et. Al. 1999
Keep the same volume tbombz just divide it over 2 or 3 days.
I can concur with Layne Norton's leg improvements. That is one area which responds well with higher frequency. or maybe its also because you perform the sets at a higher focus. e.g. fourth or fifth set you may lose concentration or energy on the harder lifts like the squat or leg press. Also when you are on AAS why not take advantage of your enhanced recovery.
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Frequency is important, consider this study I cited earlier:
"Subjects were randomly assigned to 1 of 2 groups: 1 day per week of 3 sets to failure (1DAY) or 3 days per week of 1 set to failure (3DAY). "
"The 1RMs increased (p 0.05) significantly for the combined groups over time. The 1DAY group achieved 62% of the 1RM increases observed in the 3DAY group in both upper-body and lower-body lifts. Larger increases in lean body mass were apparent in the 3DAY group. "
"From a dose-response perspective, with the total volume of exercise held constant, spreading the training frequency to 3 doses per week produced superior results."
- McLester et. Al. 1999
yeah but were they newbies? and what happens when you use higher volume...but i agree i think twice a week probably is optimal in theory..question is how to do that routine in reality. if you wanna do 3 times per week..you basically have to do fullbody routines which is kinda hard unless your a newbie...
am i thinking right?
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No the study involved EXPERIANCED SUBJECTS. A newbie would struggle with the increased frequency that is correct.
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No the study involved EXPERIANCED SUBJECTS. A newbie would struggle with the increased frequency that is correct.
wouldnt it be the other way around as the more experienced subject is lifting heavier weights? im just thinking aloud...think this stuff is interesting.
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I assume that an experianced subject would have an improved recovery rate.
The newbie would struggle due to DOMS, fatigue and unfamiliarity with exercise execution. It could also potentially reduce compliance due to the overwhelming nature of higher frequency training.
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I assume that an experianced subject would have an improved recovery rate.
The newbie would struggle due to DOMS, fatigue and familiarity with exercise execution. It could also potentially reduce compliance due to the overwhelming nature of higher frequency training.
yeah but not that much higher right? for example compare someone who is squatting 60kg..with someone who is squatting 180kg....you wont be able to squat 180kg 3x times per week if you workout hard....but someone who squats 60kg..probably could
whats DOMS? sorry if dumb question lol
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then your a pussy.
;D lol nah, i hear that from guys before, forme its not a problemm i dont seem to get any quad work from deads, but if its a problem then it oculd easily be switched up
It's not really too much of an issue since you mostly do rack pulls. I used to do that, back and leg days next to each other, but as I got older I had to put a couple of days of rest in between the two. My recovery has gotten worse, but something like that should be fine for younger guys or those with faster recovery.
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Although, what can be done is.
3 x full body workouts for a beginner a week
Experianced subject
a two day split performed over 6 days
3 x workout A
3 x workout B
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im thinking it would be best to train in a dorain yates/h.i.t. style along with one or two pump sets at the end for this kind of training.
what do you think io?
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im thinking it would be best to train in a dorain yates/h.i.t. style along with one or two pump sets at the end for this kind of training.
what do you think io?
Thats exactly right.
Make sure there are elements of progressive load too.
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yeah but not that much higher right? for example compare someone who is squatting 60kg..with someone who is squatting 180kg....you wont be able to squat 180kg 3x times per week if you workout hard....but someone who squats 60kg..probably could
whats DOMS? sorry if dumb question lol
DOMS= Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness
Generally occurs 24-48 hrs after training and last for a few days (for most people)
As for your point above, that isn't necessarily true. It comes down to intensity. That person who can squat 180kg might put 100% effort into that, but the person squatting 60kg might also be using 100% effort.
Just because someone is stronger, does not mean they work harder.
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Although, what can be done is.
3 x full body workouts for a beginner a week
Experianced subject
a two day split performed over 6 days
3 x workout A
3 x workout B
yeah thats true...as you get more experienced you probably have to do split routines...newbie can do fullbody but the more experienced you get the more you have to split
for example complete newbie: fullbody...then maybe upper/lower..then split into 3 parts..then 4..etc..
but with that routine you still have to squat with 180kg 3days per week....i think that will be too much for even experienced guys...i think 2 times per week is more realistic
just speculating lol
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DOMS= Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness
Generally occurs 24-48 hrs after training and last for a few days (for most people)
As for your point above, that isn't necessarily true. It comes down to intensity. That person who can squat 180kg might put 100% effort into that, but the person squatting 60kg might also be using 100% effort.
Just because someone is stronger, does not mean they work harder.
yeah i thought about that too...then the question is how much can you drop intensity and still grow...lol....but the problem i wrote about is still something you have to consider even if it isnt 100% accurate
cool ok..doms=soreness then i understand
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yeah thats true...as you get more experienced you probably have to do split routines...newbie can do fullbody but the more experienced you get the more you have to split
for example complete newbie: fullbody...then maybe upper/lower..then split into 3 parts..then 4..etc..
but with that routine you still have to squat with 180kg 3days per week....i think that will be too much for even experienced guys...i think 2 times per week is more realistic
just speculating lol
I agree you should perform different rep ranges for this form of workout
one lighter workout(pump) 15 reps
moderate workout 8 to 10 reps
one heavy workout a week 4-8 reps
Heavy workouts always before your day of rest
That way the athlete can use different weights and does not lose interest and can be challenged.
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I agree you should perform different rep ranges for this form of workout
one lighter workout(pump) 15 reps
moderate workout 8 to 10 reps
one heavy workout a week 4-8 reps
Heavy workouts always before your day of rest
That way the athlete can use different weights and does not lose interest and can be challenged.
thats a smart method.....sorry for being a pain in the ass.
personally im too lazy to squat 3 days a week tho lol.
i think im gonna do the 1.5 times per week frequency routine i wrote about earlier
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This form of workout is very demanding.
Anyone thinking of performing should perform for 8 weeks followed by a period of training with greater recovery.
My concern with it is the potential for overuse injury and a 'burn out'. I personally experianced this at the ninth week.
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thats a smart method.....sorry for being a pain in the ass.
personally im too lazy to squat 3 days a week tho lol.
i think im gonna do the 1.5 times per week frequency routine i wrote about earlier
you dont have to squat, you could do hack squats or leg press, as long as its heavy and intense.
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wouldnt it be smarter to do like this:
heavy day
light day
med day
rest day
repeat?
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i think its important to note that with the constant glycogen depletion the carbohydrate intake will be much higher with this method than with other forms of training.
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I find if I am going to go all out at a heavy weight I don't want to have another workout at the back of mind at the same lift. So I leave that for the end of the workout week.
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you dont have to squat, you could do hack squats or leg press, as long as its heavy and intense.
yeah i know i was just making a point of heavy leg work...3 days per week.
im gonna admit it...i hate squats...and my goal was never to have huge legs...just decent... upper body is my main focus
so i think ill stop squatting and do legpress+leg extensions (hack squat hurt my knees).
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i think its important to note that with the constant glycogen depletion the carbohydrate intake will be much higher with this method than with other forms of training.
do you mean when you workout many days per week?
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i think its important to note that with the constant glycogen depletion the carbohydrate intake will be much higher with this method than with other forms of training.
Along with sound pre workout nutrition.
The athlete could benefit from the use of a carbohydrate replacement drink during the workout.
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I find if I am going to go all out at a heavy weight I don't want to have another workout at the back of mind at the same lift. So I leave that for the end of the workout week.
cool was just curious ;) maybe its different for different people. i was thinking you get your heavy day after a rest day...
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I hope everybody here remembers that we are talking about using the same volume you would usually use. Some people get very eager with higher frequency and increase their total volume.
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I hope everybody here remembers that we are talking about using the same volume you would usually use. Some people get very eager with higher frequency and increase their total volume.
my guess it depends on what volume you normally use. i think 20 sets x 3 is too much.
i think you probably have to lower volume if you wanna work the muscle more times per week
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hey guys do you prefer working out in the morning or evening....? personally i prefer the morning as im tired after work...and feels good to have done the workout during the morning so you can focus on other stuff during the day (+ you get a good start to the day)
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Morning. ;D
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All bodyparts should be hit twice a week (or at least twice every 8 days) if you are natural and/or building.
Twicw every 8 days is the same that once a week... ;)
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thanks man..its stuff like this i like to hear..peoples real experiences...some things sound good in theory but dont work so well in real life
I've trained bodyparts twice a week for nearly 15 years. It's worked well for me.
The reason bodybuilders use splits is simple. As you become stronger, it takes more stimulus to increase your strength and size. If you try to train your entire body, more often than not, there'll be one bodypart that you'll train with more effort. Once you're spent, you'll go through the motions with the rest of the bodyparts. For too many guys, it's the legs, that get the minimal effort.
I made my split simple: Upper body (Monday & Thursday); Legs (Tuesday and Friday). Furthermore, I don't train to failure, which allows me to train with more volume. As long as you can recover from your training, you'll make progress.
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i just read an article on training theory that says every body part should be trained twice a week because protein synthesis drops after 24 hours or some such...if that is so..why do most bodybuilders use routines such as: legs,chest,back,shoulders,arms rest weekends etc. (like one body part per day)
this has been discussed many times on getbig. do a search..i have written about this subject lots of times.
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goudy do you think you have to do squats for big quads?
what do you think of this leg routine:
legpress 5-6 sets (pyramid)
leg extension 4-5 sets
leg curl 5-6sets
stiff leg deadlift 4-5 sets (pyramid)
my goal is to have decent quads....upper body is much more important
Squats are best
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Squats are best
yeah i know but i hate em lol...
so just gonna do
leg press
leg ext
leg curl
straight leg deadlifts
for legs... ;D...lazy i know..but im thinking that routine will get my legs to a decent size atleast...dont want giant legs lol (dont happen overnight either i know hehe)
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drugs
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drugs
how do you mean?
im not on drugs...im just a guy who likes to workout..mainly focus on upper body