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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: BayGBM on October 29, 2008, 11:06:10 AM
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Last year over in the forums at CarandDriver.com I posted a message about the trouble the big three car makers were in. My thread was called “How to save Ford and GM.” I got a lot of hate mail from that post for daring to suggest that American car makers were in trouble. Several people posted messages saying Toyota is the one that needs to copy GM, that “I wouldn't worry too much about GM” that “GM's future is quite secure” and “I'm freakin' sick of hearing ‘How to save GM...’. GM is on the upswing and will only get better.”
This week, newspaper headlines are documenting that Ford, Chrysler and, yes, GM are in serious trouble! They are burning through a billion dollars a month, GM and Chrysler are scrambling to merge, and begging the federal government for billions to facilitate their merger. Yesterday’s Los Angeles Times poses the question, are we facing The end of the road for U.S. carmakers?
The U.S. auto industry's downward spiral has accelerated dramatically in recent weeks. In a desperate bid for solvency, General Motors Corp. is seeking a merger with Chrysler. Chrysler has talked with Renault and Nissan about partnerships. And now Ford Motor Co., GM and Chrysler -- backed by Michigan lawmakers -- are lobbying Washington to give them cash, implying that failure to provide a bailout could doom the industry to bankruptcy . . .
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos28-2008oct28,0,1118586.story
The guys who were attacking me last year are now too busy eating crow to respond to the headlines. :-[
Why do people try to deny things that are so obvious? We have seen the same thing here on getbig. Do they really think attacking the messenger is going to make the real issues go away? Are they afraid to admit they are wrong? Are they just plain stupid? ???
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In 2003, my entire graduate class (I think it was accounting 4) and the professor all had a laugh at me, as I tried to explain my belief that there wasn't enough demand for these new homes that everyone was putting their retirement $ into.
i tried to explain that the adjustable rate would be too high - they said the dollar is just getting stronger thanks to 9/11, and that paying higher mortgages wouldn't hurt people.
I tried to explain the population here was flat, and if a recession did hit, as does following wars, then our services/tourism/construciton industries would go belly-up, and they'd move - we'd have thousands of houses sitting empty.
Most everyone in the class owned a home, many were mortgaging it to pay for a 2nd or 3rd.
Today, many of them are in some serious shit.
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It's a clear problem with Americans. Most do not have a long term plan, don't know how to save money properly, and I'm not talking about putting cash into a savings account I mean investing, and fail to see past next week. Most live pay check to pay check and have no real drive or determination to push themselves to be better. This is readily apparent and has been a major cause of why we are where we are today.
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According to Bay any man who lifts weights is a closet homersexual.
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That is a great story 240, but would you say they were in denial? Many people in housing markets across the country foolishly believed housing values would continue to rise. Your prescience shows you were playing closer attention to the facts than your classmates, but would you say they were in denial, simply defending their position, or stupid?
Have you been in touch with any of your former classmates? I’d love to hear what they have to say now.
Any more denial stories out there?
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That is a great story 240, but would you say they were in denial? Many people in housing markets across the country foolishly believed housing values would continue to rise. Your prescience shows you were playing closer attention to the facts than your classmates, but would you say they were in denial, simply defending their position, or stupid?
Have you been in touch with any of your former classmates? I’d love to hear what they have to say now.
Any more denial stories out there?
I knew it was all a scam to run up the market, then have everyone cash out at 15k.
I was wrong. it was 14k ;)
They were in denial because they had fallen for it, and bought second homes. Or they jsut owned one - but refused to face the fact they made a mistake paying so much.
I talk to one pretty regularly, he has a beautiful 4 BR home that's sat empty for 2 years now. He had to move to TENN to get work. Database programmer with an MBA (he was way smarter than me) and he ended up running a cleaning business, then losing that to a lower bidder employing illegals. he emails me once a week asking if i'm ready to buy the place lol...
another thing people don't realize - when they're buying now, when it's low - is that many of these empty houses will be section 8 - handed to welfare people - once the bank/govt take them. I don't want a $300k house sitting next to a welfare mom who is living there for $8 per month. I know it's mean, but when you let people live there for free, you have drugs and drime before long.
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Lets all congratulate each other on being Immensely intelligent and slap each other on the back for your extreme foresight.
Funny how you Two average Schmoe's are not in a position of high political authority with such talents.
Tell me how should the Global credit crisis be solved, in detail please.
ta ta
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american cars are dying...they have nowhere near the efficiency of european and japanese cars,it would take gm and co years to develope an engine like bmw,mercedes and co have
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american cars are dying...they have nowhere near the efficiency of european and japanese cars,it would take gm and co years to develope an engine like bmw,mercedes and co have
Don't say that in the forums on caranddriver.com; you will get hate mail and death threats! :D
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Don't say that in the forums on caranddriver.com; you will get hate mail and death threats! :D
Reminds me of youtube comments like "That rice POS has no torque" or "my GMC truck with pushrods would smoke that ugly jap car anytime" hahaha.
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Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
- Mark Twain
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Last year over in the forums at CarandDriver.com I posted a message about the trouble the big three car makers were in. My thread was called “How to save Ford and GM.” I got a lot of hate mail from that post for daring to suggest that American car makers were in trouble. Several people posted messages saying Toyota is the one that needs to copy GM, that “I wouldn't worry too much about GM” that “GM's future is quite secure” and “I'm freakin' sick of hearing ‘How to save GM...’. GM is on the upswing and will only get better.”
This week, newspaper headlines are documenting that Ford, Chrysler and, yes, GM are in serious trouble! They are burning through a billion dollars a month, GM and Chrysler are scrambling to merge, and begging the federal government for billions to facilitate their merger. Yesterday’s Los Angeles Times poses the question, are we facing The end of the road for U.S. carmakers?
The U.S. auto industry's downward spiral has accelerated dramatically in recent weeks. In a desperate bid for solvency, General Motors Corp. is seeking a merger with Chrysler. Chrysler has talked with Renault and Nissan about partnerships. And now Ford Motor Co., GM and Chrysler -- backed by Michigan lawmakers -- are lobbying Washington to give them cash, implying that failure to provide a bailout could doom the industry to bankruptcy . . .
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos28-2008oct28,0,1118586.story
The guys who were attacking me last year are now too busy eating crow to respond to the headlines. :-[
Why do people try to deny things that are so obvious? We have seen the same thing here on getbig. Do they really think attacking the messenger is going to make the real issues go away? Are they afraid to admit they are wrong? Are they just plain stupid? ???
The Big 3 have been in trouble for 25 years now that's nothing new , Toyota listened to what customers wanted and gave it to them , fuck the big 3 they gave us shit for years and now their chickens have come home to roost
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It's a clear problem with Americans. Most do not have a long term plan, don't know how to save money properly, and I'm not talking about putting cash into a savings account I mean investing, and fail to see past next week. Most live pay check to pay check and have no real drive or determination to push themselves to be better. This is readily apparent and has been a major cause of why we are where we are today.
That's true for A LOT of ppl all around the world though
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Lol. "C'mon, put 'em up, put 'em up!"
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What's this got to do with G4P?
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In 2003, my entire graduate class (I think it was accounting 4) and the professor all had a laugh at me, as I tried to explain my belief that there wasn't enough demand for these new homes that everyone was putting their retirement $ into.
i tried to explain that the adjustable rate would be too high - they said the dollar is just getting stronger thanks to 9/11, and that paying higher mortgages wouldn't hurt people.
I tried to explain the population here was flat, and if a recession did hit, as does following wars, then our services/tourism/construciton industries would go belly-up, and they'd move - we'd have thousands of houses sitting empty.
Most everyone in the class owned a home, many were mortgaging it to pay for a 2nd or 3rd.
Today, many of them are in some serious shit.
ROFL
PH LLB
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There has been alot of denial from people who live in the Detroit metro area. There is a belief that the big 3 will always be there, even from people who wouldn't think about buying a car from them. My Mother has a ridicules amount of Ford Stock(both parents 45yr Ford employees) and we have urged her for years to sell that stock and she just refused, now it is virtually worthless. When I would talk to Big 3 employees and ask them why they aren't focusing on more fuel effient cars, they would say we will when there is more of a demand, and I would tell you need to be ahead of the curve and planning for the future, not wait until the demand is here, then it will be too late.
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Last year over in the forums at CarandDriver.com I posted a message about the trouble the big three car makers were in. My thread was called “How to save Ford and GM.” I got a lot of hate mail from that post for daring to suggest that American car makers were in trouble. Several people posted messages saying Toyota is the one that needs to copy GM, that “I wouldn't worry too much about GM” that “GM's future is quite secure” and “I'm freakin' sick of hearing ‘How to save GM...’. GM is on the upswing and will only get better.”
This week, newspaper headlines are documenting that Ford, Chrysler and, yes, GM are in serious trouble! They are burning through a billion dollars a month, GM and Chrysler are scrambling to merge, and begging the federal government for billions to facilitate their merger. Yesterday’s Los Angeles Times poses the question, are we facing The end of the road for U.S. carmakers?
The U.S. auto industry's downward spiral has accelerated dramatically in recent weeks. In a desperate bid for solvency, General Motors Corp. is seeking a merger with Chrysler. Chrysler has talked with Renault and Nissan about partnerships. And now Ford Motor Co., GM and Chrysler -- backed by Michigan lawmakers -- are lobbying Washington to give them cash, implying that failure to provide a bailout could doom the industry to bankruptcy . . .
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-autos28-2008oct28,0,1118586.story
The guys who were attacking me last year are now too busy eating crow to respond to the headlines. :-[
Why do people try to deny things that are so obvious? We have seen the same thing here on getbig. Do they really think attacking the messenger is going to make the real issues go away? Are they afraid to admit they are wrong? Are they just plain stupid? ???
ahaahahahaahahahaahahaa, that's the dumbest thing i heard in a while!!
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ahaahahahaahahahaahahaa, that's the dumbest thing i heard in a while!!
I swear I am not making this stuff up! That is what one guy said when I pointed out that GM was in trouble more than a year ago. The thread is still on the forums at caranddriver.com if you care to read it for yourself.
In the same thread, someone posted a pic of a Corvette and said that Toyota needed to copy it (the 'vette). Then someone retorted by observing that “Toyota could build a car better than the Corvette [if they wanted to]. Toyota would much rather make cars that sell half-a-million copies per year. There isn't a hole lot of money to be made on Vettes. If GM is depending on the Corvette to save them, they're in deep doodoo.”
The American car lovers on caranddriver.com are in serious denial... even now :'(
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I swear I am not making this stuff up! That is what one guy said when I pointed out that GM was in trouble more than a year ago. The thread is still on the forums at caranddriver.com if you care to read it for yourself.
In the same thread, someone posted a pic of a Corvette and said that Toyota needed to copy it (the 'vette). Then someone retorted by observing that “Toyota could build a car better than the Corvette [if they wanted to]. Toyota would much rather make cars that sell half-a-million copies per year. There isn't a hole lot of money to be made on Vettes. If GM is depending on the Corvette to save them, they're in deep doodoo.”
The American car lovers on caranddriver.com are in serious denial... even now :'(
The american car industry is the worst in the world. They are about 20 years back in time.
In the last years, they tried to copy as much of the Toyota production system as they could, but due to the different attitude failed miserably in most cases. It's so funny that, if you examine the TPS a bit deeper, most ideas were originally from america. William Edwards Deming, Peter Drucker and a few others. Toyoda Kiichiro and Ohno Taiichi just made these things come to life.
The german car makers aren't as bad as the US, but still in deep shit. The japanese seem to be the only ones that understood where the problems lie and Toyota will still be no 1 when GM and Chrysler aren't no more.
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99 percent of getbiggers drive Lambo's and Ferrari's so this thread is worthless. :D
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toyota is on 8th place in the world's biggest company ranking...that says everything
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99 percent of getbiggers drive Lambo's and Ferrari's so this thread is worthless. :D
Your posts are worthless, that is all.
;D
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american cars are dying...they have nowhere near the efficiency of european and japanese cars,it would take gm and co years to develope an engine like bmw,mercedes and co have
GM's four cylinders are on par with honda in terms of reliability and power output, and they are on par with Toyota's 2JZ-GE legendary reliability. In terms of diesels yeah, the Americans are lagging.
Caddy's is coming up...the CTS-V makes the M5 look tame.
But you do know that BMW uses GM trannys...and so did Rolls Royce at one time...
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GM's four cylinders are on par with honda in terms of reliability and power output, and they are on par with Toyota's 2JZ-GE legendary reliability. In terms of diesels yeah, the Americans are lagging.
Caddy's is coming up...the CTS-V makes the M5 look tame.
But you do know that BMW uses GM trannys...and so did Rolls Royce at one time...
You are looking into the wrong direction, my friend.
The future automobile is not about power output, it's about efficiency.
American cars suck in this category, i can ride a Honda or Toyota for 800 miles with one filling, an american car stops at the gasoline statino after 150 miles.
PLUS: Japanese carmakers invest into the future, you have electric cars in Japan from 2009 (Both Mitsubishi and Honda are ready for the market) and fuell cells have been running in Tokyo for a few years now.
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GM's four cylinders are on par with honda in terms of reliability and power output, and they are on par with Toyota's 2JZ-GE legendary reliability. In terms of diesels yeah, the Americans are lagging.
Caddy's is coming up...the CTS-V makes the M5 look tame.
But you do know that BMW uses GM trannys...and so did Rolls Royce at one time...
as DK said...efficiency brother!
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Denial?
Can someone explain to me
what that means?
Am I in denial?
You're delusional, but that is sth else.
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even if we are talking about power...italian and german cars are faster than american cars
please compare a shelby gt(over 500 PS) to a M3(420 PS) on the nürburgring...the M3 wins allthough the M3 has a smaller engine
it's all about efficiency!don't get me wrong,there are many great american cars but european cars are much better in every way
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I swear I am not making this stuff up! That is what one guy said when I pointed out that GM was in trouble more than a year ago. The thread is still on the forums at caranddriver.com if you care to read it for yourself.
In the same thread, someone posted a pic of a Corvette and said that Toyota needed to copy it (the 'vette). Then someone retorted by observing that “Toyota could build a car better than the Corvette [if they wanted to]. Toyota would much rather make cars that sell half-a-million copies per year. There isn't a hole lot of money to be made on Vettes. If GM is depending on the Corvette to save them, they're in deep doodoo.”
The American car lovers on caranddriver.com are in serious denial... even now :'(
Lexus has the LF-A, that didn't meet their expectations, so that car has been pushed back to 2012...but with the economy in the tank it may never come out. But the Corvette Zr1 is already out...
As far a Denial, Americans are typically in denial mode, about many things. Their money, their health ("This doesn't make me look fat does it?"), Their relationships ("He says he loves me, that's enough, right?"), Politcs, drug usage, discipline of children, education...Basically thid country is is just broke. Period.
I think Paul Kennedy's "The Rise and Fall of The Great Powers", should be mandatory reading in High Schools and Colleges across the nation.
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even if we are talking about power...italian and german cars are faster than american cars
please compare a shelby gt(over 500 PS) to a M3(420 PS) on the nürburgring...the M3 wins allthough the M3 has a smaller engine
it's all about efficiency!don't get me wrong,there are many great american cars but european cars are much better in every way
The SHelby GT500 is a POS pig. Solid Rear Axle, of course the Italians, German's and Japanese are faster. Ford never wanted to spend money on a IRS. I firmly believe that within the Mustang's development time (since the 60's), the base GT should be taking out M3's by now. If the Ford GT500 was developed by Ford of Europe, this car would have been phenomenal. But no, it was developed by SVT and had Shelby's blessing (and badging)....
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even if we are talking about power...italian and german cars are faster than american cars
please compare a shelby gt(over 500 PS) to a M3(420 PS) on the nürburgring...the M3 wins allthough the M3 has a smaller engine
it's all about efficiency!don't get me wrong,there are many great american cars but european cars are much better in every way
yes bmw is über to bad most of their current cars look like shit!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_528xi_sedan.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_E60_front_20080515.j pg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_E60_front_20080515.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_3er_Limousine07.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:3er_facelift_front.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:3er_facelift_rear.JPG
Barf
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Thanks a lot, Vince Venom! You're a class act!
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yes bmw is über to bad most of their current cars look like shit!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_528xi_sedan.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_E60_front_20080515.j pg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_E60_front_20080515.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:BMW_3er_Limousine07.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:3er_facelift_front.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:3er_facelift_rear.JPG
Barf
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i think most bmw's look fucking great!
watch out for the new bmw 7 series and the new bmw z4!
also the bmw cs!
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i hope they make this car one day...most beautiful thing i have seen
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i think most bmw's look fucking great!
watch out for the new bmw 7 series and the new bmw z4!
also the bmw cs!
i think most bmw's look fucking great!
watch out for the new bmw 7 series and the new bmw z4!
also the bmw cs!
I think they're too round these days, bubble shaped like audis. I like more straight lines. The Z series i've never been a fan of no matter what version.
They used to look great ;)
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Are any of you car guys in the forums on caranddriver.com, motortrend.com, or elsewhere?
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Are any of you car guys in the forums on caranddriver.com, motortrend.com, or elsewhere?
autobild.de ^^
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I think they're too round these days, bubble shaped like audis. I like more straight lines. The Z series i've never been a fan of no matter what version.
They used to look great ;)
mh i personally prefere the "bubble shape",flows better
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The SHelby GT500 is a POS pig. Solid Rear Axle, of course the Italians, German's and Japanese are faster. Ford never wanted to spend money on a IRS. I firmly believe that within the Mustang's development time (since the 60's), the base GT should be taking out M3's by now. If the Ford GT500 was developed by Ford of Europe, this car would have been phenomenal. But no, it was developed by SVT and had Shelby's blessing (and badging)....
1999 Mustang Cobra had IRS and Mustang fans HATED it hence they went back to a solid rear axle and you're high if you think the GT500 is a POS it does what it's designed to do and it does it well
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even if we are talking about power...italian and german cars are faster than american cars
please compare a shelby gt(over 500 PS) to a M3(420 PS) on the nürburgring...the M3 wins allthough the M3 has a smaller engine
it's all about efficiency!don't get me wrong,there are many great american cars but european cars are much better in every way
The new Corvette ZR1 will destroy anything from the factory from Germany & Italy and Japan around the ring and do it in some cases for 1/3rd the price as well ! do a little research before you type.
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wouldn't mind any of these...
(http://lax.war3.com/Car/M3/FirstWax/Day%202/DSC_2413.jpg)
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/onepremiere/Bimmerfest%202008/IMG_5247.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/cgp01/Images/M3Images/Side1edit.JPG)
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This Dodge Viper is faster around the Nurburgring than ANY stock Porsche , Ferrari , Pagani , Maserati , McLaren , Corvette , Koeningsegg , Lamborghini , Bugatti , etc
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You idiots are discussing Vettes and M3s. We are talking automobile industry here. People buy cars where a family and a full weeks shopping fit in and that runs 1000 miles with one filling. Those sports cars are a niche, they bring no money for a normal car manufacturer. Toyota is No1 because they focus on cars people need, not some bogus race car only a few can afford. THAT is the cream on top, and Toyota knows this. I have visited Toyota plants in Japan, Toyota's headquarters and believe me, Toyota is thinking way beyond automobiles. You all will have a Toyota at home in 10 years, not necessarily a car though. :D
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You idiots are discussing Vettes and M3s. We are talking automobile industry here. People buy cars where a family and a full weeks shopping fit in and that runs 1000 miles with one filling. Those sports cars are a niche, they bring no money for a normal car manufacturer. Toyota is No1 because they focus on cars people need, not some bogus race car only a few can afford. THAT is the cream on top, and Toyota knows this. I have visited Toyota plants in Japan, Toyota's headquarters and believe me, Toyota is thinking way beyond automobiles. You all will have a Toyota at home in 10 years, not necessarily a car though. :D
The fast cars get people into the dealerships to buy ecno-boxes and one of the sole reasons Toyota kicked everyone's ass is reliability , people got sick and tired of fixing that POS from the big three ME included , I've own two Hondas and they ran like sewing machines , the can ran whenever you turned that key , the cheap Japanese steel in another story lol
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1999 Mustang Cobra had IRS and Mustang fans HATED it hence they went back to a solid rear axle and you're high if you think the GT500 is a POS it does what it's designed to do and it does it well
Truth be told, they only did a minor redesign of the rear axle, they said that drag racers wouldn't like the IRS, but it was because didn't want to spend money on the Mustang (it was rumored to have the a version of the Lincoln LS IRS). Only a few of the V8 buyers actually turn their cars into drag racers, and V6 engines Mustangs today sell the V8's by a huge margin. Also Mercedes AMG's make huge HP and torques figures, and the old SL65 could do 11.6 with the AC on, and they all have IRS.
Many mustang fans are like today's complaining Corvette fans, they like cheap HP, and that is what the Mustang is cheap...even the 65 coupe had a rip off design of the a 1956 one off Ferrari (what you thought the Mustang was a original design, it 's not). Cheap interior, it's built to a budget, hell they made a big deal of being able to change the color of the dash lighting. The only good thing about the Mustang is the engine. I wish Ford would poor more money into better cars, and as I said, had this been designed in a Ford of Europe studio and engineered there, it would be of better qaulity.
The Shelby GT500 does 0-60 in 4.5 secs, for a car that has the GT's 5.4 SC engine (500-550 HP) that is shitty indeed. The E46 M3 CSL does it in that much or quicker, with only 360 HP, but it is lighter. The GT500 is a pig, it's close to 4000 pounds, and with a solid rear axle, that means, it doesn't handle for anything, and it's slow.
It's unacceptable. Ford can't make a descent car, hell they even F up the GT, they put the wrong engine in it. They were designing and testing a V10 that made more HP, at the very same time they were building the GT, where did the V10 end up, in the Shelby GR-1 concept, that never saw production...Again FORD...the F in Ford stands "F" up.
ND, that is why I have a Lexus. I had a Ford Taurus, my dad is a FORD man thru and thru, but I want reliability, plus performance, but most importantly reliability
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Truth be told, they only did a minor redesign of the rear axle, they said that drag racers wouldn't like the IRS, but it was because didn't want to spend money on the Mustang (it was rumored to have the a version of the Lincoln LS IRS). Only a few of the V8 buyers actually turn their cars into drag racers, and V6 engines Mustangs today sell the V8's by a huge margin. Also Mercedes AMG's make huge HP and torques figures, and the old SL65 could do 11.6 with the AC on, and they all have IRS.
Many mustang fans are like today's complaining Corvette fans, they like cheap HP, and that is what the Mustang is cheap...even the 65 coupe had a rip off design of the a 1956 one off Ferrari (what you thought the Mustang was a original design, it 's not). Cheap interior, it's built to a budget, hell they made a big deal of being able to change the color of the dash lighting. The only good thing about the Mustang is the engine. I wish Ford would poor more money into better cars, and as I said, had this been designed in a Ford of Europe studio and engineered there, it would be of better qaulity.
The Shelby GT500 does 0-60 in 4.5 secs, for a car that has the GT's 5.4 SC engine (500-550 HP) that is shitty indeed. The E46 M3 CSL does it in that much or quicker, with only 360 HP, but it is lighter. The GT500 is a pig, it's close to 4000 pounds, and with a solid rear axle, that means, it doesn't handle for anything, and it's slow.
It's unacceptable. Ford can't make a descent car, hell they even F up the GT, they put the wrong engine in it. They were designing and testing a V10 that made more HP, at the very same time they were building the GT, where did the V10 end up, in the Shelby GR-1 concept, that never saw production...Again FORD...the F in Ford stands "F" up.
ND, that is why I have a Lexus. I had a Ford Taurus, my dad is a FORD man thru and thru, but I want reliability, plus performance, but most importantly reliability
Truth be told, they only did a minor redesign of the rear axle, they said that drag racers wouldn't like the IRS, but it was because didn't want to spend money on the Mustang (it was rumored to have the a version of the Lincoln LS IRS). Only a few of the V8 buyers actually turn their cars into drag racers, and V6 engines Mustangs today sell the V8's by a huge margin. Also Mercedes AMG's make huge HP and torques figures, and the old SL65 could do 11.6 with the AC on, and they all have IRS.
The drag racers didn't like it , to much wheel hop off the line and lets face it the Mustang's focus group is straight line speed freaks , they tried the Euro-Stang in 1984 SVO ring a bell? turbo-4 , four wheel dics much more expensive than a GT and a lot slower Ford tried and the owners revolted and they listed , Ford wanted to make the Mustang FWD the UAW trended a strike another revolt Ford listened
And the V6 Mustangs always out sold the V8s even in the 60s people wanted the look without the price
It's unacceptable. Ford can't make a descent car, hell they even F up the GT, they put the wrong engine in it. They were designing and testing a V10 that made more HP, at the very same time they were building the GT, where did the V10 end up, in the Shelby GR-1 concept, that never saw production...Again FORD...the F in Ford stands "F" up.
I disagree I think the GT was one hell of a car and the 03/04 Mustang Cobras are amazing cars for what they were designed for , straight line speed , but as a whole Ford is playing catch-up and so has the rest of Detroit
Many mustang fans are like today's complaining Corvette fans, they like cheap HP, and that is what the Mustang is cheap...even the 65 coupe had a rip off design of the a 1956 one off Ferrari (what you thought the Mustang was a original design, it 's not). Cheap interior, it's built to a budget, hell they made a big deal of being able to change the color of the dash lighting. The only good thing about the Mustang is the engine. I wish Ford would poor more money into better cars, and as I said, had this been designed in a Ford of Europe studio and engineered there, it would be of better qaulity.
Your got it right Americans want cheap HP and they get what the pay for in the form of solid rear axle and cheap interiors , Ford's quality has improved over the years thanks to Honda & Toyota but again they're still playing catch
ND, that is why I have a Lexus. I had a Ford Taurus, my dad is a FORD man thru and thru, but I want reliability, plus performance, but most importantly reliability
Some old timers just refuse to change but I see a LOT of older people in Japanese cars because their reputations for dead reliability speaks for themselves , I know dye-in-the-wool BIG 3 types driving Japanese now and when the Big 3 can give them that type of reliability they'll return
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ND YOU ARE STUPID!!!
a bugatti fucks all of your american cars...not even questionable
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While I agree that foreign Cars are better in most cases, I dont think that is the reason American Companies are getting crushed.
What is the biggest difference between GM, dodge, Ford, and Crystler vs Honda of American, and Toyota of America??
UNIONS!!!! Honda and Toyota kept the unions out by incentivizing (sp) their workers though pay for performance and stock. These foreign companies in America have been making a killing here ever since.
The Auto Unions have become fat a bloated and have run the American Auto industry to the ground. These companies spend more on Healthcare than Steel. Its hard to invest in R&D and turn a profit when your human capital is dragging your bottom line into the gutter.
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The Auto Unions have become fat a bloated and have run the American Auto industry to the ground. These companies spend more on Healthcare than Steel. Its hard to invest in R&D and turn a profit when your human capital is dragging your bottom line into the gutter.
...you just regurgitate whatever FOX News tells you, BuffGeek. Your every post is an insult to thinking people everywhere.
Unions are killing the American car industry? WTF? Japanese workers are treated better than any American factory worker could ever dream of being treated.
American cars are just twenty years behind European and American engineering standards... simple as that:
-leaf spring suspension (Jesus, I have that on my classic 70's sports car and I'm going to replace it)
-inefficient engines (the 1,800 cc [1.8 litre] Lotus Exige would blitz that Corvette around Nurberg)
-poor fuel efficiency (the French won't touch a car that gets less than 50 mpg)
-poor power outputs: Americans measure brake horsepower at the crank, Europeans measure it on a dynonometer. The American answer is always to simply add heavy gauge steel to the frame and a huge V8 under the hood... they never even consider engineering more power from a smaller engine.
This technology lag is due to American car manufacturers having a captive market/populace for so long... that and the classic American "not-knowing-shit" attitude.
I used the Lotus Exige as an example here because for $70k you can get an 850 kg (1,900 lb) dinky European sports car that not only handles and corners better than ANY American production sports car (in ANY price range), but it does 0-60 mph in less than four seconds... and all of that from a 1.8 litre engine... what's that Viper? Six litres?
ND listed several foreign manufacturers whose cars couldn't possibly beat the big Dodge Viper pictured.
How ignorant is that considering each and every one of those manufacturers produce a model that could smoke that Viper around the Nurberg ring:
-Porsche ...the GT3 version of the 911 turbo
-Ferrari ...the F430 (you wouldn't even need a competent driver with the advanced drivers aid software)
-Pagani ...the Zonda
-Maserati ...the Quattraporte
-McLaren ...the McLaren F1 (fastest production car in the world when new)
-Koeningsegg ...the new top of the line TG model has nearly 700 horsepower
-Lamborghini ...just the basic (relatively) cheap Gallardo would beat the Viper due to it's FWD
-Bugatti ...don't they make the 1,000 horsepower Veyron believed to be the best car in the world?
...perhaps Americans aren't really in denial. Perhaps they're just plain stoooopid.
The Luke
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American cars suck, plain and simple.
What the fuck do you even care for a race on the Nürburgring, a Dodge Viper or Corvette SCREAMS pimp or new money.
Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, these are cars with class.
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BOOM! :D
The Late Dr. W. Edwards Deming - American Genius that America ignored
Introductory video for the late Dr. William Edwards Deming whose quality control management systems helped to transform Japan Inc. to what it is today.
1
2
3
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Yeah. American cars suck. Whatever...
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/in-the-autobog-garage-2009-chevy-cobalt-ss-turbo/
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BOOM! :D
Spot on!
Thanks for the vids, i will watch them later on!
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That is a great story 240, but would you say they were in denial? Many people in housing markets across the country foolishly believed housing values would continue to rise. Your prescience shows you were playing closer attention to the facts than your classmates, but would you say they were in denial, simply defending their position, or stupid?
Have you been in touch with any of your former classmates? I’d love to hear what they have to say now.
Any more denial stories out there?
Years ago, I said George Bush was an idiot, he'd be the worst president ever, would run the country into the ground, ...and no foreign head of state would have any respect for him....
Then after 911, I told people the biggest attack on American freedoms would come from her own government...
Then I told people there were no WMDs in Iraq, that it was simply a pack of lies and an excuse for war...
Then I told people that the Republican party had been hijacked by an evil cabal of madmen...
No one believed me... some on this very board (who shall remain nameless) called me "Anti-American" for even daring to so much as whisper the truth.
{sigh} What a difference 8 yrs of hell makes huh? Finally... Vindication! Only 5 more days to go.
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Years ago, I said George Bush was an idiot, he'd be the worst president ever, would run the country into the ground, ...and no foreign head of state would have any respect for him....
Then after 911, I told people the biggest attack on American freedoms would come from her own government...
Then I told people there were no WMDs in Iraq, that it was simply a pack of lies and an excuse for war...
Then I told people that the Republican party had been hijacked by an evil cabal of madmen...
No one believed me... some on this very board (who shall remain nameless) called me "Anti-American" for even daring to so much as whisper the truth.
{sigh} What a difference 8 yrs of hell makes huh? Finally... Vindication! Only 5 more days to go.
Fail.
We are talking cars here.
You could have asked ANY european and he would have told you George W is an idiot.
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I talk to one pretty regularly, he has a beautiful 4 BR home that's sat empty for 2 years now. He had to move to TENN to get work. Database programmer with an MBA (he was way smarter than me) and he ended up running a cleaning business, then losing that to a lower bidder employing illegals. he emails me once a week asking if i'm ready to buy the place lol...
What's a "database programmer"? Someone who actually architects DBMS from the ground up, or do you mean DB admin? What's his full credentials, if he's capable to architecture his own DBMS then I'm sure the company I work for would be happy to entertain an interview with him.
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In 2003, my entire graduate class (I think it was accounting 4) and the professor all had a laugh at me, as I tried to explain my belief that there wasn't enough demand for these new homes that everyone was putting their retirement $ into.
i tried to explain that the adjustable rate would be too high - they said the dollar is just getting stronger thanks to 9/11, and that paying higher mortgages wouldn't hurt people.
I tried to explain the population here was flat, and if a recession did hit, as does following wars, then our services/tourism/construciton industries would go belly-up, and they'd move - we'd have thousands of houses sitting empty.
Most everyone in the class owned a home, many were mortgaging it to pay for a 2nd or 3rd.
Today, many of them are in some serious shit.
What's funny is that I had many arguments with the illegal alien apologists who kept telling me we needed all these people here to "do the jobs that Americans wont do". My argument was that once the demand stopped, what would all these illegals be doing? and that the taxpayer would get stuck with the tab. I also argued that they would not go home and most likely resort to low level crime to survive.
I have three scenarios I will buy a home or property.
SOMEONE MUST BE EITHER:
DIVORCING
DYING
DESPERATE
I refused to pay market value for those houses because the prices were just insane and not related to reality. I'm glad I did not get suckered.
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While I agree that foreign Cars are better in most cases, I dont think that is the reason American Companies are getting crushed.
What is the biggest difference between GM, dodge, Ford, and Crystler vs Honda of American, and Toyota of America??
UNIONS!!!! Honda and Toyota kept the unions out by incentivizing (sp) their workers though pay for performance and stock. These foreign companies in America have been making a killing here ever since.
The Auto Unions have become fat a bloated and have run the American Auto industry to the ground. These companies spend more on Healthcare than Steel. Its hard to invest in R&D and turn a profit when your human capital is dragging your bottom line into the gutter.
Qouted for sense and truth....
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Years ago, I said George Bush was an idiot, he'd be the worst president ever, would run the country into the ground, ...and no foreign head of state would have any respect for him....
Then after 911, I told people the biggest attack on American freedoms would come from her own government...
Then I told people there were no WMDs in Iraq, that it was simply a pack of lies and an excuse for war...
Then I told people that the Republican party had been hijacked by an evil cabal of madmen...
No one believed me... some on this very board (who shall remain nameless) called me "Anti-American" for even daring to so much as whisper the truth.
{sigh} What a difference 8 yrs of hell makes huh? Finally... Vindication! Only 5 more days to go.
Yet another example of how you are unable to talk about anything other than another countries leader. This thread is about CARS, not politics.
Serious question... Do you really ever think about anything else that GWB? He obviously prevades your every concious moment.
CARS!!! We are talking about CARS here! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( ::)
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Qouted for sense and truth....
Yes, the unions are dead! I here story after story about workers clocking in and then leaving only to return at the end of the day and clock out. I had a patient whose wife, had not worked a day in 2yrs, but was collecting disability and health insurance, she was not noticeably disabled, no lost limb, no walker or cane, not even a limp, there was a certain sense of entitlement as well, no company can last very long paying people not to work and their health insurance.
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But we can't let the American auto industry (read: unions) fail!!!
Disability in this country is a joke these days. You can file for disability because you got too fat to function properly.
All you need is a doc to sign off that you are 'disabled'.
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...you just regurgitate whatever FOX News tells you, BuffGeek. Your every post is an insult to thinking people everywhere.
Unions are killing the American car industry? WTF? Japanese workers are treated better than any American factory worker could ever dream of being treated.
American cars are just twenty years behind European and American engineering standards... simple as that:
-leaf spring suspension (Jesus, I have that on my classic 70's sports car and I'm going to replace it)
-inefficient engines (the 1,800 cc [1.8 litre] Lotus Exige would blitz that Corvette around Nurberg)
-poor fuel efficiency (the French won't touch a car that gets less than 50 mpg)
-poor power outputs: Americans measure brake horsepower at the crank, Europeans measure it on a dynonometer. The American answer is always to simply add heavy gauge steel to the frame and a huge V8 under the hood... they never even consider engineering more power from a smaller engine.
This technology lag is due to American car manufacturers having a captive market/populace for so long... that and the classic American "not-knowing-shit" attitude.
I used the Lotus Exige as an example here because for $70k you can get an 850 kg (1,900 lb) dinky European sports car that not only handles and corners better than ANY American production sports car (in ANY price range), but it does 0-60 mph in less than four seconds... and all of that from a 1.8 litre engine... what's that Viper? Six litres?
ND listed several foreign manufacturers whose cars couldn't possibly beat the big Dodge Viper pictured.
How ignorant is that considering each and every one of those manufacturers produce a model that could smoke that Viper around the Nurberg ring:
-Porsche ...the GT3 version of the 911 turbo
-Ferrari ...the F430 (you wouldn't even need a competent driver with the advanced drivers aid software)
-Pagani ...the Zonda
-Maserati ...the Quattraporte
-McLaren ...the McLaren F1 (fastest production car in the world when new)
-Koeningsegg ...the new top of the line TG model has nearly 700 horsepower
-Lamborghini ...just the basic (relatively) cheap Gallardo would beat the Viper due to it's FWD
-Bugatti ...don't they make the 1,000 horsepower Veyron believed to be the best car in the world?
...perhaps Americans aren't really in denial. Perhaps they're just plain stoooopid.
The Luke
First off I rarely even watch TV. Second why dont you come up with a different response for when someone has a dissenting opinion, the whole Fox news thing is getting booring.
The Honda and Toyota auto workers I am talking about are right here in America. They said FU to the Unions because they knew they could get a better deal working with their respective companies and those plants have flourished.
I could go on about the rest of your American hate filled rant, but I dont think it deserves a response. Very few people can even afford those cars you are talking about so I really think its irrelevant to this discussion.
I will have to hand it to your country however... Our bussiness may be moving your way if Obama is elected. You guys have realized that lower bussines taxes will allow bussiness to flourish and prosper.
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What's a "database programmer"? Someone who actually architects DBMS from the ground up, or do you mean DB admin? What's his full credentials, if he's capable to architecture his own DBMS then I'm sure the company I work for would be happy to entertain an interview with him.
I think he means database developer.
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Donkeykong & Hereford,
As you can see the thread is entitled 'the denial phenomenon', and my comment was in response to Reply #4.
At that point, the thread was too general in nature to be only about cars, ...and considering it's on political...
If you want a comment about cars... North American cars SUCK! I prefer German cars. happy now? :-\
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Actually, we agree. :)
I drive German cars as well.
*thumbs up*
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German cars suck as well. They are all overpriced. A shitty VW Golf costs more in its basic version than a comparable Honda with full equipment. AND its not 1980 when VW was much better than Japanese cars. Mercedes had lots of quality problems, mostly electronics. The only really good german cars are Audi and Porsche, the others suck. All are overpriced nevertheless.
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German cars suck as well. They are all overpriced. A shitty VW Golf costs more in its basic version than a comparable Honda with full equipment. AND its not 1980 when VW was much better than Japanese cars. Mercedes had lots of quality problems, mostly electronics. The only really good german cars are Audi and Porsche, the others suck. All are overpriced nevertheless.
I would take an old Benz any day. I've always driven German. Not a fan of VWAG.
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Old Benz are better. They have had serious problems in the last three or four years.
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German cars suck as well. They are all overpriced. A shitty VW Golf costs more in its basic version than a comparable Honda with full equipment. AND its not 1980 when VW was much better than Japanese cars. Mercedes had lots of quality problems, mostly electronics. The only really good german cars are Audi and Porsche, the others suck. All are overpriced nevertheless.
I've never had a problem with the Volkswagen vehicles I've owned.
I bought a Prius for fuel reasons but would have no problems buying another when they become more fuel efficient.
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German cars suck as well. They are all overpriced. A shitty VW Golf costs more in its basic version than a comparable Honda with full equipment. AND its not 1980 when VW was much better than Japanese cars. Mercedes had lots of quality problems, mostly electronics. The only really good german cars are Audi and Porsche, the others suck. All are overpriced nevertheless.
Blasphemy.
Real men drive BMW.
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Turkish young men drive BMW.