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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:36:20 PM

Title: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:36:20 PM


(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/dm_bkg3.jpg)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY Y
Post by: drkaje on October 30, 2008, 08:37:46 PM
Where's your deadlift video?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: BFP on October 30, 2008, 08:38:23 PM
Does he claim to be drug free?/

Jason
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:39:46 PM
He claims to be Natural and Posts on here as well.

Also, he competes in a "natural" organization,OCB, with a fella from a nearby gym.  The one he competes with is William Powell who also pretends to be a natural but I know for a FACT that he is not.  Mr. Powell also has won the NC NPC state show.   Clearly the OCB organization may be a joke based on Mr. Powell.

I find it all amusing.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:42:40 PM
Can any Expert Powerlifters weigh in on this?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: BFP on October 30, 2008, 08:44:39 PM
Kind of hard for me to say. he doesnt have the rear delt/trap/neck region of a user, but he is in pretty phenomenal shape for a natty as well. Doesnt seem to have the telltale water retention or purple face of an androgen user. If i wasnt in such horrific cardiovascular shape, i might be able to do this, and have a max deadlift of 700lbs.

Jason
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY Y
Post by: io856 on October 30, 2008, 08:45:24 PM
This guy is about as natural  as George Takei and Brad Altman consummating their marriage.  ;D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY Y
Post by: Big_Tymer on October 30, 2008, 08:45:45 PM
you are kidding me right?  that guy is about as natural as pamela andersons tits.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: nycbull on October 30, 2008, 08:46:30 PM
he is definitly juiced in the bottom pic..no doubt...how long do these guys think they convince people they are natural.?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: avesher on October 30, 2008, 08:46:55 PM
who is he?    dudes strong
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:47:16 PM
Kind of hard for me to say. he doesnt have the rear delt/trap/neck region of a user, but he is in pretty phenomenal shape for a natty as well. Doesnt seem to have the telltale water retention or purple face of an androgen user. If i wasnt in such horrific cardiovascular shape, i might be able to do this, and have a max deadlift of 700lbs.

Jason
How common is a 700 lb deadlift for a "natural" around 200 lbs?  The one in question I think has NEVER competed in powerlifting by the way.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 08:48:42 PM
just my opinion, if I had to bet the rent check-

The lift is good but not sensational.  I did 405 for 5 reps this week, and I'm softer than a popcorn fart.

The physique... top 20 nationals... So, we have 2 scenarios, to explain that delt development, the serratus cuts, christmas tree back while retaining that level of muscle and low body fat.

He is either a dishonest steroid user, or he has the most sensational genetics in the history of planet Earth.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY Y
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:49:43 PM
Where's your deadlift video?
I don`t have one. I can`t do 112 for 225.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: io856 on October 30, 2008, 08:51:34 PM
Maybe he is the most genetically gifted human on Earth?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:52:02 PM
Also note that he has a head cold when he performed this.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: BFP on October 30, 2008, 08:52:27 PM
How common is a 700 lb deadlift for a "natural" around 200 lbs?  The one in question I think has NEVER competed in powerlifting by the way.

it is actually more common than you would think, but theres not one in every gym by any means. We have a guy in our gym that pulls 500 at 145lbs. There are so many variables though, its hard to say.

Also, I think he is probably natural for his shows, but dont believe that he is a lifetime natural.

Jason
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 08:54:27 PM
it is actually more common than you would think, but theres not one in every gym by any means. We have a guy in our gym that pulls 500 at 145lbs. There are so many variables though, its hard to say.

Also, I think he is probably natural for his shows, but dont believe that he is a lifetime natural.

Jason
At 160 I can manage about 455 or so. Not too impressive.  I have to be obese to get 500.  At 185lbs I can get 500 but I am way too fat at 185.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY Y
Post by: Rimbaud on October 30, 2008, 09:00:08 PM
He claims to be Natural and Posts on here as well.

Also, he competes in a "natural" organization,OCB, with a fella from a nearby gym.  The one he competes with is William Powell who also pretends to be a natural but I know for a FACT that he is not.  Mr. Powell also has won the NC NPC state show.   Clearly the OCB organization may be a joke based on Mr. Powell.

I find it all amusing.

How do you know for a "fact" that he's not? Have you seen him use?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 09:03:17 PM
How do you know for a "fact" that he's not? Have you seen him use?

you know your shit... what do you think about this specimin?

If the year was 1980, this man would be top 10 Olympia.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: Rimbaud on October 30, 2008, 09:04:48 PM
you know your shit... what do you think about this specimin?

If the year was 1980, this man would be top 10 Olympia.

If I had to guess I'd say he was using something.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: ozman on October 30, 2008, 09:10:36 PM
all creatine
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: io856 on October 30, 2008, 09:13:46 PM
all creatine
all HMB
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: leonp1981 on October 30, 2008, 09:17:17 PM
I doubt he's natural, but if he wants to tell people he is, then fine.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: io856 on October 30, 2008, 09:19:13 PM
Why go from being an exceptional (top 3) if not the greatest natural bodybuilder to a top 20 Nationals competitor?
 ;D

Testosterone Propionate
Testosterone Suspension closer to competition
Oral steroids
Nandrolone short esters
HGH
 
These are all things he is very familiar with.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 09:22:56 PM
many young Bbers come to message boards and tell the same lies they do in real life - that it's all about their hard work and dedication, etc.

They bullchit their way thru mayhem and bbing.com with no worries.  They report anyone who calls them liars.  We don't need that type of negativity.

Getbig keeps it real.  About once a month, we see a top state level physique come here talking about how he did it all with egg whites and stuff he bought from GNC.

Look, everyone at the top uses.  We don't care about that.  howard does, but the rest of us do not.  We do care if you piss in the wind and tell us its raining.


Just be a top bodybuilding - as you obviously are - and have a great career.  Don't get into a pissing match with anonymous folks on a board about how natty you are.  Judges read getbig, and they don't like to see that shit either.  Be a bodybuilder.  Not a liar.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 09:23:46 PM
Why go from being an exceptional (top 3) if not the greatest natural bodybuilder to a top 20 Nationals competitor?
 ;D

Testosterone Propionate
Testosterone Suspension closer to competition
Oral steroids
Nandrolone short esters
HGH
 
These are all things he is very familiar with.

equitest... 7 different esters.  lots of time release action there.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: avesher on October 30, 2008, 09:24:39 PM
shut up 240   

I needed to randomly tell someone to shut up, dont take it personally
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: PANDAEMONIUM on October 30, 2008, 09:26:26 PM
shut up 240   

I needed to randomly tell someone to shut up, dont take it personally

the mighty avesher is layin' down some smack tonite ;D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: avesher on October 30, 2008, 09:29:08 PM
the mighty avesher is layin' down some smack tonite ;D

if some kid trick or treats my shithole of an apartment tomorrow Im gonna open the door and whip an orange at their head
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 09:32:38 PM
shut up 240  

I needed to randomly tell someone to shut up, dont take it personally

You're still pissed about that keyboard, aren't you?

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=243539.msg3424153#msg3424153
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: PANDAEMONIUM on October 30, 2008, 09:38:44 PM
if some kid trick or treats my shithole of an apartment tomorrow Im gonna open the door and whip an orange at their head

What if a morbidly obese pedo from toronto comes a-knockin'? ;D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: io856 on October 30, 2008, 09:40:27 PM
Pumphard will have plenty of treats, the only catch is they are on the floor in his bedroom. "come along I have them right over here"
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: avesher on October 30, 2008, 09:40:46 PM
What if a morbidly obese pedo from toronto comes a-knockin'? ;D

would he be followed by 7 of his "gimmicky friends"?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: PANDAEMONIUM on October 30, 2008, 09:42:22 PM
would he be followed by 7 of his "gimmicky friends"?

Are you suggesting that "pumphard" is a gimmick account made up by a bunch of guys who have way too much time on their hands?

Pumphard will have plenty of treats, the only catch is they are on the floor in his bedroom. "come along I have them right over here"

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: TooPowerful4u on October 30, 2008, 09:47:58 PM

My bro is 16 and hits 405x3.  That dude lifting for as long as he has and eating good + genetics....VERY possible....
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: avesher on October 30, 2008, 09:51:12 PM
My bro is 16 and hits 405x3.  That dude lifting for as long as he has and eating good + genetics....VERY possible....

melt down for us agian--its a quiet night on here
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2008, 10:02:46 PM
My bro is 16 and hits 405x3.  That dude lifting for as long as he has and eating good + genetics....VERY possible....

look at his back.  natural?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: deeppact on October 30, 2008, 10:14:46 PM
My bro is 16 and hits 405x3.  That dude lifting for as long as he has and eating good + genetics....VERY possible....

You are a liar and your brother a loser, classic vissicaro family style.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Swedish Viking on October 30, 2008, 10:20:13 PM
I did at 473.25 at the USAPL nationals when I was 15 years old, and 405 for 6 reps or so at that time.  I don't think 405 for 25 is all that outrageous when you are a seasoned lifter.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on October 30, 2008, 10:24:34 PM
I did at 473.25 at the USAPL nationals when I was 15 years old, and 405 for 6 reps or so at that time.  I don't think 405 for 25 is all that outrageous when you are a seasoned lifter.
Has your DL been stagnant since age 15?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Swedish Viking on October 30, 2008, 10:59:53 PM
Definitely not. It's gone straight down like a damn plumb line since then.  I tore some ligaments in my lower back on that 473 lift(still hit it though) and since then I have bulged and herniated discs more times than I can count.  Last week I did stiff legs with 65lbs.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: thewickedtruth on October 30, 2008, 11:04:25 PM
hahaha that's doable for anyone who is serious about pulling! I've pulled 500 for over 10 on video and done 15 with straps. I've done 405 for 20 straight without them with little effort with my max pull atm being 675 and I keep missing 700 right at the top lately. 405 for 20 on pulls is no different than 405 for 20 on squats..once your cardio can handle it..it's no big deal.

lol and i'd like to add that i'm a fat shit at 260..and i'm okay with that.  ;D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: ironjoe on October 30, 2008, 11:22:35 PM
He claims to be Natural and Posts on here as well.

Also, he competes in a "natural" organization,OCB, with a fella from a nearby gym.  The one he competes with is William Powell who also pretends to be a natural but I know for a FACT that he is not.  Mr. Powell also has won the NC NPC state show.   Clearly the OCB organization may be a joke based on Mr. Powell.

I find it all amusing.

your EPIC JEALOUSY is amusing.  Go train and quit worrying about Mr. Powell..   ::)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: MAXX on October 30, 2008, 11:35:28 PM
your EPIC JEALOUSY is amusing.  Go train and quit worrying about Mr. Powell..   ::)
another "natural" :D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: ironjoe on October 30, 2008, 11:46:39 PM
All I'm saying that it is a waste of time worrying about it.  If you go to a natural show and they pass or beat the test what are you gonna do?  Nothing.  Posting pics of some dude and calling him out is lame.  Just makes one look jealous.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: travisma on October 31, 2008, 12:34:36 AM
He claims to be Natural and Posts on here as well.

Also, he competes in a "natural" organization,OCB, with a fella from a nearby gym.  The one he competes with is William Powell who also pretends to be a natural but I know for a FACT that he is not.  Mr. Powell also has won the NC NPC state show.   Clearly the OCB organization may be a joke based on Mr. Powell.

I find it all amusing.

What you know for a FACT??? So let me get this straight, you have been right there when he injected hormones into his arse??? I think not, so how do you know for a FACT that his is a user?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: gordiano on October 31, 2008, 12:37:23 AM
(http://www.avenuevine.com/movabletype/archives/juiced.jpg)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: gordiano on October 31, 2008, 12:38:26 AM
(http://content.costco.ca/Images/Content/Product/108709L.jpg)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: gordiano on October 31, 2008, 12:39:40 AM
(http://img.alibaba.com/photo/12007861/Natural_Fruit_Juices.jpg)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: PANDAEMONIUM on October 31, 2008, 12:47:46 AM
What you know for a FACT??? So let me get this straight, you have been right there when he injected hormones into his arse??? I think not, so how do you know for a FACT that his is a user?

stfu
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Jeffro on October 31, 2008, 01:06:48 AM
What you know for a FACT??? So let me get this straight, you have been right there when he injected hormones into his arse??? I think not, so how do you know for a FACT that his is a user?
If you know what's good for you, "travisma," you won't ever question or directly address TA again, is this clear?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on October 31, 2008, 02:04:47 AM
405x24 is definetely doable as a natural.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY Y
Post by: Nordic Beast on October 31, 2008, 03:15:36 AM
first off the guy is not natural one bit-----even without looking at the video its clear from his pic that he has used numerous cycles

I don`t have one. I can`t do 112 for 225.

and secondly damn it ADonis!!!!!!! why would you ruin one the greatest ongoing ownages in the history of getbig....you would have been 60yrs old and people would still have been talking about the 112 rep deadlift on here ;D ;D ;D

now what are you going to tell us...you dont use protein powder and eat McDonald's all day when dieting!!!!!!! Sacrilege !!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on October 31, 2008, 03:32:07 AM
Very doable as a natural but the guy isn't even close to hormone free.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Cleanest Natural on October 31, 2008, 03:58:29 AM
He claims to be Natural and Posts on here as well.

Also, he competes in a "natural" organization,OCB, with a fella from a nearby gym.  The one he competes with is William Powell who also pretends to be a natural but I know for a FACT that he is not.  Mr. Powell also has won the NC NPC state show.   Clearly the OCB organization may be a joke based on Mr. Powell.

I find it all amusing.
he's about as natural as you ..

where's the 225x112 reps video ?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: sinbad on October 31, 2008, 05:50:48 AM
I would spew puke from my gut with great force if I tried that. I am a skinny 6'4 with a fucked up back so dead lift is not my strong suit. I did see some kids in the gym the other day pulling 315 for reps, a couple of them were decent size, but one was no more that 150lbs, I thought it was pretty impressive, looking at this kid, I would have bet anything he couldn't pull 225 for 2.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Mrdibbs on October 31, 2008, 05:56:04 AM
A bullshitter calls bullshit on someone who talks bullshit.... the irony ::)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Hedgehog on October 31, 2008, 05:56:31 AM
it is actually more common than you would think, but theres not one in every gym by any means. We have a guy in our gym that pulls 500 at 145lbs. There are so many variables though, its hard to say.

Also, I think he is probably natural for his shows, but dont believe that he is a lifetime natural.

Jason
imo a natural 700 @ 198 is world class. Look at the results from the IPF worlds, and the gold medal deadlift is usually up around 770-800. And that's obviously with a suit.

A 700 lbs deadlift is very good, regardless of weight class.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: heavyNbasic on October 31, 2008, 05:59:26 AM
With that rep speed + straps + that small bounce at the bottom, 24@405 and natural is def. doable/believable.  
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: BB on October 31, 2008, 09:03:41 AM
I vote no on the natural claim, 700lb natural deadlift is World class at almost any weight, I took a look at a few 70's- early 80's Powerlifting results, and you can count the number of 700lbs pullers in the 198 pound and below classes on less than two hands.  The guys doing it were big names too, Mike Bridges, Vince Anello, etc....

The one caveat is using one of those x reps to 1 rep calculators. Dr. Ken Leistner's 407lbs x 23 is an example of this, while he was able to handle this weight for reps, he admitted his 1rm was only in the high 400's.

Some people are just good at high reps.   
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: onlyme on October 31, 2008, 09:22:53 AM
I vote no on the natural claim, 700lb natural deadlift is World class at almost any weight, I took a look at a few 70's- early 80's Powerlifting results, and you can count the number of 700lbs pullers in the 198 pound and below classes on less than two hands.  The guys doing it were big names too, Mike Bridges, Vince Anello, etc....

The one caveat is using one of those x reps to 1 rep calculators. Dr. Ken Leistner's 407lbs x 23 is an example of this, while he was able to handle this weight for reps, he admitted his 1rm was only in the high 400's.

Some people are just good at high reps.   

This is a true statement.  Opposite for me though.  I did pretty high weight but could not do lot of reps with semi heavy weight.  I just run out of gas.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Ursus on October 31, 2008, 09:27:44 AM
405x24 may only work out as low as a 550x1 deadlift or as high as maybe 650...possinle for a natural.

Burn2live is a natural and pulled 616lbs in a comp getting 660lbs a few inches off the ground...he would smoke 405x24 i think
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Ursus on October 31, 2008, 09:38:53 AM
also i have repped 500lbs easily on the deadlift.

Enormous difference from 405 and 500. Deadlift is more strength endurance rather than simply strength
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: dam225 on November 04, 2008, 07:45:08 AM
Adam,

Whats with all the hate man? I saw this thread the other day after you posted a comment on my youtube video. I really don't care if you believe me that I am drug-free. That is your problem.  Why do you put limits on what you can achieve naturally?  I have been living a 100% bodybuilding lifestyle for about 8-10 years now. I never miss workouts/meals and supplement perfectly. Please go to my website and read more about me and look at all of my pictures through the years before you accuse me of drug use. 

I have been polygraphed many times and urine tested often.  I could post a scan of my drug test results fro my last show if you really would like LOL. I know you like to start trouble but please leave me out of your drama. I remember when you posted on OCB and I never had a problem with you (and still don't). In all seriousness if you want some tips or advice hit me up and I will be glad to help.  Stop limiting yourself because you are natural.

BTW for all those who care....my best deadlift is 545x7. I'm not a huge puller but do have good endurance. I have a pretty small joint frame so super heavy weights are hard for me.

Best,
Doug Miller
www.dougmillerpro.com
www.corenutritionals.com
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Ursus on November 04, 2008, 10:17:47 AM
A dignified response.

Props man...unreal physique
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: leonp1981 on November 04, 2008, 10:35:31 AM
Adam,

Whats with all the hate man? I saw this thread the other day after you posted a comment on my youtube video. I really don't care if you believe me that I am drug-free. That is your problem.  Why do you put limits on what you can achieve naturally?  I have been living a 100% bodybuilding lifestyle for about 8-10 years now. I never miss workouts/meals and supplement perfectly. Please go to my website and read more about me and look at all of my pictures through the years before you accuse me of drug use. 

I have been polygraphed many times and urine tested often.  I could post a scan of my drug test results fro my last show if you really would like LOL. I know you like to start trouble but please leave me out of your drama. I remember when you posted on OCB and I never had a problem with you (and still don't). In all seriousness if you want some tips or advice hit me up and I will be glad to help.  Stop limiting yourself because you are natural.

BTW for all those who care....my best deadlift is 545x7. I'm not a huge puller but do have good endurance. I have a pretty small joint frame so super heavy weights are hard for me.

Best,
Doug Miller
www.dougmillerpro.com
www.corenutritionals.com

Good post.

I don't get why TA and Sevastase are constantly starting these 'Is this Guy Natural?' threads.  I have a hunch that something went wrong when they tried gear, and now they have a huge grudge against anyone who has a decent physique.  (I'm sure Adonis says he's never used, but didn't he used to be a lot bigger?)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: _bruce_ on November 04, 2008, 10:53:16 AM
many young Bbers come to message boards and tell the same lies they do in real life - that it's all about their hard work and dedication, etc.

They bullchit their way thru mayhem and bbing.com with no worries.  They report anyone who calls them liars.  We don't need that type of negativity.

Getbig keeps it real.  About once a month, we see a top state level physique come here talking about how he did it all with egg whites and stuff he bought from GNC.

Look, everyone at the top uses.  We don't care about that.  howard does, but the rest of us do not.  We do care if you piss in the wind and tell us its raining.


Just be a top bodybuilding - as you obviously are - and have a great career.  Don't get into a pissing match with anonymous folks on a board about how natty you are.  Judges read getbig, and they don't like to see that shit either.  Be a bodybuilder.  Not a liar.

Dont hate just because the Weider principles didnt work for you  >:(
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Army of One on November 04, 2008, 11:00:49 AM
Adam,

Whats with all the hate man? I saw this thread the other day after you posted a comment on my youtube video. I really don't care if you believe me that I am drug-free. That is your problem.  Why do you put limits on what you can achieve naturally?  I have been living a 100% bodybuilding lifestyle for about 8-10 years now. I never miss workouts/meals and supplement perfectly. Please go to my website and read more about me and look at all of my pictures through the years before you accuse me of drug use. 

I have been polygraphed many times and urine tested often.  I could post a scan of my drug test results fro my last show if you really would like LOL. I know you like to start trouble but please leave me out of your drama. I remember when you posted on OCB and I never had a problem with you (and still don't). In all seriousness if you want some tips or advice hit me up and I will be glad to help.  Stop limiting yourself because you are natural.

BTW for all those who care....my best deadlift is 545x7. I'm not a huge puller but do have good endurance. I have a pretty small joint frame so super heavy weights are hard for me.

Best,
Doug Miller
www.dougmillerpro.com
www.corenutritionals.com

Like 240 said, anyone with eyes can tell you are a liar, maybe you can fool the uneducated general public but Im not sure why you bother to lie on here.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on November 04, 2008, 11:13:26 AM
Adam,

Whats with all the hate man? I saw this thread the other day after you posted a comment on my youtube video. I really don't care if you believe me that I am drug-free. That is your problem.  Why do you put limits on what you can achieve naturally?  I have been living a 100% bodybuilding lifestyle for about 8-10 years now. I never miss workouts/meals and supplement perfectly. Please go to my website and read more about me and look at all of my pictures through the years before you accuse me of drug use. 

I have been polygraphed many times and urine tested often.  I could post a scan of my drug test results fro my last show if you really would like LOL. I know you like to start trouble but please leave me out of your drama. I remember when you posted on OCB and I never had a problem with you (and still don't). In all seriousness if you want some tips or advice hit me up and I will be glad to help.  Stop limiting yourself because you are natural.

BTW for all those who care....my best deadlift is 545x7. I'm not a huge puller but do have good endurance. I have a pretty small joint frame so super heavy weights are hard for me.

Best,
Doug Miller
www.dougmillerpro.com
www.corenutritionals.com

You disgust me.

The "perfect supplements" you take are hormones.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Writerman on November 04, 2008, 02:24:25 PM
Ok, Doug is very strong... and his physique is extremely impressive.  So I can see how some people might have some private doubts about whether he is juicing.  But I was laughing out loud at the guys who are soooo certain that he isn't natural!  If you ever saw him work out might find it easier to believe.

I am a friend of Doug's and he is one of the most intense, disciplined, determined men I ever met.  He pushes himself to the wall on every set, and he NEVER misses a workout: Not when he's sick, not when he is crashing on a project at his job and has to put in crazy hours at the office... never.  And he never misses a meal  He does take a LOT of supplements.... lol.  But he would be first to tell you that.  But no steroids, no hormones. He has too much self-respect to take that crap... never mind lie about it.  Again, if you knew him you would find this a little easier to believe.

By the way, I'm the one who shot the video.  In that same workout I pulled 315x18.  Not nearly as impressive, but on the other hand, I will be 42 next month and I've only been training regularly for less than four years. So Doug's set was impressive but hardly impossible for a natural.  I think some of you guys need to stop wallowing in jealousy and self-pity, get off the computer, and hit the weights a little harder!
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: BM OUT on November 04, 2008, 02:28:23 PM


(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/dm_bkg3.jpg)

A 700 pull at 200 is a good lift,very good.I think you could be drug free and do it,but he looks pretty muscular for a drug free guy.Who knows,some guys are freaks.His strength is good but other natural guys are as strong its not off the charts.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Rami on November 04, 2008, 02:37:14 PM
Is he a pro athlete, if so, what sport?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Flex 215 on November 04, 2008, 03:16:23 PM
I think everyone talking about the deadlift, and how much they themselves or some other guy at whatever bodyweight did, are missing the point. From the video, this guys condition and strength, are excellent, but within the realm of being natural.

It's the photos of him in contest shape that insults our intelligence. Maybe 240's analagy is a little off, but this guys physique would at least earn him a pro card in the IFBB 20 years ago.

Just the video = natural is well within reason

pics = some kind of hormones, maybe only legal ones, but some kind of "supplement" that would make him not clean.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: adrain on November 04, 2008, 03:32:48 PM
FREAKING AWESOME WORK DOUG!  MUCH RESPECT!!
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: chris_mason on November 04, 2008, 03:34:13 PM
Let me make this easy:

a) It is possible to do naturally.  I have pulled 405 for 20 or 21 reps stiff-legged and I am clean at about 218 lbs.

b) The guy may or may not be clean, only he knows.  His look is possible clean in my opinion.  
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: dr.chimps on November 04, 2008, 04:26:14 PM
Let me make this easy:

a) It is possible to do naturally.  I have pulled 405 for 20 or 21 reps stiff-legged and I am clean at about 218 lbs.

b) The guy may or may not be clean, only he knows.  His look is possible clean in my opinion. 
Obviously, not so easy for you, Chris.  :D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Army of One on November 06, 2008, 12:28:02 AM
Ok, Doug is very strong... and his physique is extremely impressive.  So I can see how some people might have some private doubts about whether he is juicing.  But I was laughing out loud at the guys who are soooo certain that he isn't natural!  If you ever saw him work out might find it easier to believe.

I am a friend of Doug's and he is one of the most intense, disciplined, determined men I ever met.  He pushes himself to the wall on every set, and he NEVER misses a workout: Not when he's sick, not when he is crashing on a project at his job and has to put in crazy hours at the office... never.  And he never misses a meal  He does take a LOT of supplements.... lol.  But he would be first to tell you that.  But no steroids, no hormones. He has too much self-respect to take that crap... never mind lie about it.  Again, if you knew him you would find this a little easier to believe.

By the way, I'm the one who shot the video.  In that same workout I pulled 315x18.  Not nearly as impressive, but on the other hand, I will be 42 next month and I've only been training regularly for less than four years. So Doug's set was impressive but hardly impossible for a natural.  I think some of you guys need to stop wallowing in jealousy and self-pity, get off the computer, and hit the weights a little harder!

Hi Doug.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Writerman on November 06, 2008, 04:35:11 PM
Hi Doug.

Whatever dude -- get a life.  I guess he held camera himself, though mental telepathy or something?

(The video of my 315x18 got corrupted. But I can post the video of my 225x24 set... same gym, same power rack... in case anyone would like proof.  You can even hear's Doug's voice while he is holding the camera.  It seems kind of pointless, though.  People here seem to believe whatever they want to believe.)
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Triple-H_2005 on November 06, 2008, 04:41:48 PM
I used to train at the gym where Doug trains.  He is one of the most disciplined, focused people I've ever seen in the gym.  He and his wife never miss workouts.  He has incredible genetics.  If you saw him you'd see TINY jounts and very full muscle bellies.  Kinda like a white black dude!

Anyway, I've never followed him 24 hrs a day, but I've known plenty of guys on gear, and I'm comfortable believing him.  I've also known a couple of genetic freaks...  He's one.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The Luke on November 06, 2008, 04:57:10 PM
I don't want to sound as if I'm raining on anyone's parade here, the video is certainly very impressive... but (and it's a big ol' Jennifer Lopez sized but):

THAT'S NOT A PROPER BODYBUILDING STYLE DEADLIFT.


Every rep is done with a rounded over back... if the back was (properly) arched, or even just flat, then he'd have to lower his butt another 8 to 12 inches on each rep; in turn that would require bending the legs much more than he is doing. It's akin to the difference between a hamstrings-to-parallel squat; a thighs-to-parallel squat and an ass-to-heels squat.

A good rule of thumb here would be that an arched back would perhaps HALVE his number of reps (maybe only reduce them by a third if he's a really good squatter)... but he'd get better erector spinae muscles and less injuries from it.


Just my two cents... no offense intended. Purely as a powerlifting/strength feat that video is incredible.



The Luke
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 06, 2008, 05:02:10 PM
the photos of him with his wife...he doesn't look that big standing next to her.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The True Adonis on November 06, 2008, 05:45:09 PM
the photos of him with his wife...he doesn't look that big standing next to her.
Are you still skinny fat and if so why?  You have been around here for years yet have made no progress. I do not understand.  ???
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: chris_mason on November 06, 2008, 07:14:27 PM
I don't want to sound as if I'm raining on anyone's parade here, the video is certainly very impressive... but (and it's a big ol' Jennifer Lopez sized but):

THAT'S NOT A PROPER BODYBUILDING STYLE DEADLIFT.


Every rep is done with a rounded over back... if the back was (properly) arched, or even just flat, then he'd have to lower his butt another 8 to 12 inches on each rep; in turn that would require bending the legs much more than he is doing. It's akin to the difference between a hamstrings-to-parallel squat; a thighs-to-parallel squat and an ass-to-heels squat.

A good rule of thumb here would be that an arched back would perhaps HALVE his number of reps (maybe only reduce them by a third if he's a really good squatter)... but he'd get better erector spinae muscles and less injuries from it.


Just my two cents... no offense intended. Purely as a powerlifting/strength feat that video is incredible.



The Luke

You have serious issues with people who are stronger than you.  Here is the bottom line; the guy is stronger than you and looks a heck of a lot better than you.  Deal with it.  Congratulate him on his accomplishment, don't hate...
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The Luke on November 06, 2008, 08:38:02 PM
You have serious issues with people who are stronger than you.  Here is the bottom line; the guy is stronger than you and looks a heck of a lot better than you.  Deal with it.  Congratulate him on his accomplishment, don't hate...

I did 425 for 12 with an ARCHED back last Monday... immediately after doing 315 for 10 in the squat: ass to the ground with a two second stop at the bottom of each rep.

I've done 405 for 16 with an ARCHED back (no squats beforehand)... might possibly be able to match 405 for 20 if I mimicked the round-backed style evidenced in that video. I'm pretty close to as strong as that guy... and I'm a definite lifetime natural (btw: people on this board have trained with me, I don't bullshit about lifts).

Only fools think that a deadlift is a deadlift... technique is important.


The Luke
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: haider on November 07, 2008, 06:12:34 PM
I don't want to sound as if I'm raining on anyone's parade here, the video is certainly very impressive... but (and it's a big ol' Jennifer Lopez sized but):

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla


The Luke
point well taken broski
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: mass 04 on November 07, 2008, 06:18:26 PM
point well taken broski
HHAHAHAHAH does he think anybody reads these 76,082 word manifestos?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: haider on November 07, 2008, 06:21:31 PM
HHAHAHAHAH does he think anybody reads these 76,082 word manifestos?
hahah that's like asking if anyone thinks big foot exists... no one but Luke!   :D
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: chris_mason on November 07, 2008, 06:55:16 PM
I did 425 for 12 with an ARCHED back last Monday... immediately after doing 315 for 10 in the squat: ass to the ground with a two second stop at the bottom of each rep.

I've done 405 for 16 with an ARCHED back (no squats beforehand)... might possibly be able to match 405 for 20 if I mimicked the round-backed style evidenced in that video. I'm pretty close to as strong as that guy... and I'm a definite lifetime natural (btw: people on this board have trained with me, I don't bullshit about lifts).

Only fools think that a deadlift is a deadlift... technique is important.


The Luke

Let's see some video of your impressive feats...
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: mass 04 on November 07, 2008, 06:57:02 PM
"The Luke" claims to have better calves than Yates and would look like Labrada in contest shape.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: io856 on November 07, 2008, 07:00:11 PM
suckmymuscle > The Luke

way smarter etc. etc.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: QuakerOats on November 07, 2008, 07:02:43 PM
very impressive clip, dude is put together but i can definitely believe he's natural.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: chris_mason on November 07, 2008, 08:47:18 PM
Hey "The Luke", how can you expect anyone to take your word for anything on the net?  Have you ever posted a pic or video of yourself, or have you just talked a big game?  Everything you claim could be true, but you can't expect people to just believe you...  I want to see a video of your impeccable form performing the deadlift with heavy loads.  If it is as important as you say then teach us.  Show us what you mean.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: The Luke on November 07, 2008, 08:54:00 PM
Hey "The Luke", how can you expect anyone to take your word for anything on the net?  Have you ever posted a pic or video of yourself, or have you just talked a big game?  Everything you claim could be true, but you can't expect people to just believe you...  I want to see a video of your impeccable form performing the deadlift with heavy loads.  If it is as important as you say then teach us.  Show us what you mean.

...Chris, surely you don't think that round backed heaving is proper form do you?


The Luke
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: io856 on November 07, 2008, 09:11:02 PM
a "dead"lift is a deadlift.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: liberalismo on November 07, 2008, 09:32:45 PM
I always assume good faith.


If it CAN BE DONE naturally then I assume that he is natural if he says he is natural.

I believe that his physique is naturally attainable and his lifts can be done naturally.

His bodyfat is pretty low, so he might take something for bodyfat, but his muscle mass levels can be attained naturally.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Meso_z on November 08, 2008, 12:32:17 AM


(http://www.dougmillerpro.com/images/dm_bkg3.jpg)

of course he is roiding, like you.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY YOU?
Post by: Bobby on November 08, 2008, 07:27:50 AM
stats?
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: The Luke on November 08, 2008, 08:49:19 AM
a "dead"lift is a deadlift.

...so very untrue.

Do a Youtube search for "DieselWeasel" if you don't believe me.

I squat with 315 because that's all I can handle squatting to full depth and stopping at the bottom; if I squatted just to parallel I might be able to handle 350ish... squatting just to the point where my hamstrings were parallel I might be able to handle 400ish... but what would be the point?

Too many people on this site are too hung up on weight: MattC's and Ron Harris' (Pazuzu) terrible form videos are prime examples of this.


The Luke
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: chris_mason on November 08, 2008, 09:17:13 AM
...Chris, surely you don't think that round backed heaving is proper form do yo
The Luke

Great job avoiding the question and point. 

To answer your question I think it is fine.  The guy's form in the video is fine.
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. IS this "lifetime natural" roiding? WHAT SAY Y
Post by: The Luke on November 08, 2008, 09:35:59 AM
Great job avoiding the question and point. 

To answer your question I think it is fine.  The guy's form in the video is fine.

...Chris, don't you and your training partners all suffer from recurring injuries? I seem to remember you mentioning this in a previous thread.

The form in that video is perfectly acceptable from a powerlifting standpoint, but is an open invitation to a disc injury (probably in the mid to upper back).


The medical guys on here will agree with me.


The Luke
Title: Re: Video:405 for 24 on deadlift. I have accused this guy of roiding. WHAT SAY Y
Post by: brent2741 on November 08, 2008, 09:40:53 AM
How common is a 700 lb deadlift for a "natural" around 200 lbs?  The one in question I think has NEVER competed in powerlifting by the way.

not very.