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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Oldschool Flip on November 03, 2008, 07:15:46 PM
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With all the praising, paying homage and glorifying to God REQUIRED by Christians, it seems that happiness being human isn't part of God's plan. You're meant to suffer and be unworthy until you get to heaven. Just be happy that you are praising him. Kinda of a dull life if you ask me. Of course if you're too happy, you're not suffering enough.
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Dang, Oldschool Flip! Are you unemployed? Where do you get all this free time to post so much nonsense?
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Dang, Oldschool Flip! Are you unemployed? Where do you get all this free time to post so much nonsense?
Stay at home dad since my wife brings home over 6 figures.We could have much more money a year, but we'd rather have a parent a home for our 4 year old instead of daycare. Work part time as a fitness instructor.
Really, if you read the Bible, there is a lot of NEGATIVE connotations in it. Don't do this, kill this, obey this...etc. it's not untrue. There are a few positive ones here and there, but there is much more negative. That's why I ask.
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Yes... ignorance is bliss.
The Luke
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The Keys to Happiness, and Why We Don't Use Them
"It requires some effort to achieve a happy outlook on life, and most people don't make it."
—Author and researcher Gregg Easterbrook
Psychologists have recently handed the keys to happiness to the public, but many people cling to gloomy ways out of habit, experts say.
Polls show Americans are no happier today than they were 50 years ago despite significant increases in prosperity, decreases in crime, cleaner air, larger living quarters and a better overall quality of life.
So what gives?
Happiness is 50 percent genetic, says University of Minnesota researcher David Lykken. What you do with the other half of the challenge depends largely on determination, psychologists agree. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be."
What works, and what doesn't
Happiness does not come via prescription drugs, although 10 percent of women 18 and older and 4 percent of men take antidepressants, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. Anti-depressants benefit those with mental illness but are no happiness guarantee, researchers say.
Nor will money or prosperity buy happiness for many of us. Money that lifts people out of poverty increases happiness, but after that, the better paychecks stop paying off sense-of-well-being dividends, research shows.
One route to more happiness is called "flow," an engrossing state that comes during creative or playful activity, psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has found. Athletes, musicians, writers, gamers, and religious adherents know the feeling. It comes less from what you're doing than from how you do it.
Sonja Lyubomirsky of the University of California at Riverside has discovered that the road toward a more satisfying and meaningful life involves a recipe repeated in schools, churches and synagogues. Make lists of things for which you're grateful in your life, practice random acts of kindness, forgive your enemies, notice life's small pleasures, take care of your health, practice positive thinking, and invest time and energy into friendships and family.
The happiest people have strong friendships, says Ed Diener, a psychologist University of Illinois. Interestingly his research finds that most people are slightly to moderately happy, not unhappy.
On your own
Some Americans are reluctant to make these changes and remain unmotivated even though our freedom to pursue happiness is written into the preamble of the Declaration of Independence.
Don't count on the government, for now, Easterbrook says.
Our economy lacks the robustness to sustain policy changes that would bring about more happiness, like reorienting cities to minimize commute times.
The onus is on us.
"There are selfish reasons to behave in altruistic ways," says Gregg Easterbrook, author of "The Progress Paradox: How Life Gets Better While People Feel Worse" (Random House, 2004).
"Research shows that people who are grateful, optimistic and forgiving have better experiences with their lives, more happiness, fewer strokes, and higher incomes," according to Easterbrook. "If it makes world a better place at same time, this is a real bonus."
Diener has collected specific details on this. People who positively evaluate their well-being on average have stronger immune systems, are better citizens at work, earn more income, have better marriages, are more sociable, and cope better with difficulties.
Unhappy by default
Lethargy holds many people back from doing the things that lead to happiness.
Easterbrook, also a Visiting Fellow at the Brookings Institute, goes back to Freud, who theorized that unhappiness is a default condition because it takes less effort to be unhappy than to be happy.
"If you are looking for something to complain about, you are absolutely certain to find it," Easterbrook told LiveScience. "It requires some effort to achieve a happy outlook on life, and most people don't make it. Most people take the path of least resistance. Far too many people today don't make the steps to make their life more fulfilling one."
http://www.livescience.com/health/060227_happiness_keys.html
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Religious involvement and happiness
There is now extensive research suggesting that religious people are happier and less stressed.[1][2]
Surveys by Gallup, the National Opinion Research Centre and the Pew Organization conclude that spiritually committed people are twice as likely to report being "very happy" than the least religiously committed people.[3]
An analysis of over 200 social studies contends that "high religiousness predicts a rather lower risk of depression and drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts, and more reports of satisfaction with life and a sense of well-being"[4] and a review of 498 studies published in peer-reviewed journals concluded that a large majority of them showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self-esteem, and lower levels of hypertension, depression and clinical delinquency.[5][6]
Studies by Keith Ward show that overall religion is a positive contributor to mental health[7] and a meta-analysis of 34 recent studies published between 1990 and 2001 also found that religiosity has a salutary relationship with psychological adjustment, being related to less psychological distress, more life satisfaction, and better self-actualization.[8]
Finally, a recent systematic review of 850 research papers on the topic concluded that "the majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse." [9]
1. BBC - The science of happiness
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/happiness_formula/4783836.stm
2. Time - The New Science of Happiness
http://www.time.com/time/2005/happiness/
3. Is Religion Dangerous? p156, citing David Myers The Science of Subjective Well-Being Guilford Press 2007
4. Smith,Timothy, Michael McCullough, and Justin Poll. 2003: “Religiousness and Depression: Evidence for a Main Effect and Moderating Influence of Stressful Life Events.” Psychological Bulletin 129(4):614–36.
5. Bryan Johnson & colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania (2002)
6. Is Religion Dangerous? cites similar results from the Handbook of Religion and Mental Health Harold Koenig (ed.) ISBN 978-0124176454
7. Is Religion Dangerous? Ch 9.
8. Hackney, Charles H. & Sanders, Glenn S. (2003) Religiosity and Mental Health: A Meta–Analysis of Recent Studies. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion 42 (1), 43-55. doi:10.1111/1468-5906.t01-1-00160
9. Moreira-Almeida Alexander, Lotufo Neto Francisco, Koenig Harold G. "Religiousness and mental health: a review". Rev. Bras. Psiquiatr. [serial on the Internet]. 2006 September, cited 2007 June 21, 2007 ; 28(3): 242-250
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Religious involvement and happiness
There is now extensive research suggesting that religious people are happier and less stressed.[1][2]
Surveys by Gallup, the National Opinion Research Centre and the Pew Organization conclude that spiritually committed people are twice as likely to report being "very happy" than the least religiously committed people.[3]
An analysis of over 200 social studies contends that "high religiousness predicts a rather lower risk of depression and drug abuse and fewer suicide attempts, and more reports of satisfaction with life and a sense of well-being"[4] and a review of 498 studies published in peer-reviewed journals concluded that a large majority of them showed a positive correlation between religious commitment and higher levels of perceived well-being and self-esteem, and lower levels of hypertension, depression and clinical delinquency.[5][6]
Studies by Keith Ward show that overall religion is a positive contributor to mental health[7] and a meta-analysis of 34 recent studies published between 1990 and 2001 also found that religiosity has a salutary relationship with psychological adjustment, being related to less psychological distress, more life satisfaction, and better self-actualization.[8]
Finally, a recent systematic review of 850 research papers on the topic concluded that "the majority of well-conducted studies found that higher levels of religious involvement are positively associated with indicators of psychological well-being (life satisfaction, happiness, positive affect, and higher morale) and with less depression, suicidal thoughts and behavior, drug/alcohol use/abuse." [9]
1. BBC - The science of happiness
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/happiness_formula/4783836.stm
2. Time - The New Science of Happiness
http://www.time.com/time/2005/happiness/
3. Is Religion Dangerous? p156, citing David Myers The Science of Subjective Well-Being Guilford Press 2007
4. Smith,Timothy, Michael McCullough, and Justin Poll. 2003: “Religiousness and Depression: Evidence for a Main Effect and Moderating Influence of Stressful Life Events.” Psychological Bulletin 129(4):614–36.
5. Bryan Johnson & colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania (2002)
6. Is Religion Dangerous? cites similar results from the Handbook of Religion and Mental Health Harold Koenig (ed.) ISBN 978-0124176454
7. Is Religion Dangerous? Ch 9.
8. Hackney, Charles H. & Sanders, Glenn S. (2003) Religiosity and Mental Health: A Meta–Analysis of Recent Studies. Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion 42 (1), 43-55. doi:10.1111/1468-5906.t01-1-00160
9. Moreira-Almeida Alexander, Lotufo Neto Francisco, Koenig Harold G. "Religiousness and mental health: a review". Rev. Bras. Psiquiatr. [serial on the Internet]. 2006 September, cited 2007 June 21, 2007 ; 28(3): 242-250
And yet the divorce rate is the same amongst the religious as the non religious. So they WEREN'T happy with their marriage although the did "bind" together in God's eyes. And of course Christians aren't supposed to divorce because what (Matthew 19:6) "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
And if you asked how many overweight Christians how really happy they are, especially in the category of physical health and look, I'm sure the numbers would be much more unhappy than happy since over half our population is overweight with a the worst in the Southern states where religion is big.
I am an optimist. I sold vacuums door to door for more than 10 years which IMO was the hardest working job I had mentally. People can train themselves to be optimistic just have to get out of the "fear" factor. Happiness starts with yourself. If you can't be happy with whom you are first, the rest is just a facade.
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Stay at home dad since my wife brings home over 6 figures.We could have much more money a year, but we'd rather have a parent a home for our 4 year old instead of daycare. Work part time as a fitness instructor.
Really, if you read the Bible, there is a lot of NEGATIVE connotations in it. Don't do this, kill this, obey this...etc. it's not untrue. There are a few positive ones here and there, but there is much more negative. That's why I ask.
The "negative connotations" usually involve immoral behavior. And the reason it's listed is because the reprecussions are often devastating to the transgressor (and unfortunately, other people). Let's see how happy you are, should (God forbid) your wife be unfaithful to you, or your chidren be disobedient. And, there's very little happiness, when someone else's sin adversely affects you.
The Keys to Happiness, and Why We Don't Use Them
"It requires some effort to achieve a happy outlook on life, and most people don't make it."
—Author and researcher Gregg Easterbrook
Psychologists have recently handed the keys to happiness to the public, but many people cling to gloomy ways out of habit, experts say.
Polls show Americans are no happier today than they were 50 years ago despite significant increases in prosperity, decreases in crime, cleaner air, larger living quarters and a better overall quality of life.
So what gives?
Happiness is 50 percent genetic, says University of Minnesota researcher David Lykken. What you do with the other half of the challenge depends largely on determination, psychologists agree. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Most people are as happy as they make up their minds to be."
What works, and what doesn't
Happiness does not come via prescription drugs, although 10 percent of women 18 and older and 4 percent of men take antidepressants, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. Anti-depressants benefit those with mental illness but are no happiness guarantee, researchers say.
Nor will money or prosperity buy happiness for many of us. Money that lifts people out of poverty increases happiness, but after that, the better paychecks stop paying off sense-of-well-being dividends, research shows.
One route to more happiness is called "flow," an engrossing state that comes during creative or playful activity, psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has found. Athletes, musicians, writers, gamers, and religious adherents know the feeling. It comes less from what you're doing than from how you do it.
Sonja Lyubomirsky of the University of California at Riverside has discovered that the road toward a more satisfying and meaningful life involves a recipe repeated in schools, churches and synagogues. Make lists of things for which you're grateful in your life, practice random acts of kindness, forgive your enemies, notice life's small pleasures, take care of your health, practice positive thinking, and invest time and energy into friendships and family.
I've said this multiple times (but not quite in this manner). Often, scientific research has this strange habit of producing the "DUH!!" factor. In other words, though it gets in the weeds, it often tells us what we've known from the get-go (courtesy of Biblical teachings and good old-fashioned common sense).
Everything you bolded from Dr. Lyubomirsky is something that Scripture has pointed out long ago, and you've likely heard in church.
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Time to bring up a tried and true quote:
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
-George Bernard Shaw
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Time to bring up a tried and true quote:
Though I disagree with your quote, your quote still contradics what Oldschool Flip is saying in this thread.
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And yet the divorce rate is the same amongst the religious as the non religious. So they WEREN'T happy with their marriage although the did "bind" together in God's eyes. And of course Christians aren't supposed to divorce because what (Matthew 19:6) "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
And if you asked how many overweight Christians how really happy they are, especially in the category of physical health and look, I'm sure the numbers would be much more unhappy than happy since over half our population is overweight with a the worst in the Southern states where religion is big.
I am an optimist. I sold vacuums door to door for more than 10 years which IMO was the hardest working job I had mentally. People can train themselves to be optimistic just have to get out of the "fear" factor. Happiness starts with yourself. If you can't be happy with whom you are first, the rest is just a facade.
Yes, Christians are "allowed" to be happy. Christians are encouraged to be happy, and the research I have posted shows that Christians have the tools to be happy.
How does your divorce argument say otherwise? Divorce is a mistake, a big one. Christians make mistakes too. Divorce rate is high in the west because it's easy. Divorce rates are much lower in countries where divorce is not so easily granted. It has nothing to do with religion.
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Though I disagree with your quote, your quote still contradics what Oldschool Flip is saying in this thread.
You think that delusion is a sign of truth?
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You think that delusion is a sign of truth?
No
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No
Why do you disagree with the quote then?
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of course they are happy.all sheep need a Shepard.
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Why do you disagree with the quote then?
I'm a Christian and I'm sober.
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The "negative connotations" usually involve immoral behavior. And the reason it's listed is because the reprecussions are often devastating to the transgressor (and unfortunately, other people). Let's see how happy you are, should (God forbid) your wife be unfaithful to you, or your chidren be disobedient. And, there's very little happiness, when someone else's sin adversely affects you.
If my wife was unfaithful to me, it's because of me and something I did or didn't do to/for her. People stray because they lose connection with their spouse and get acknowledgement from someone else. So I would be MAN enough to forgive her and work on why it happened. As for disobedient children, that's a natural effect. No big deal. My point was that Christians that divorce probably prayed that the person they wanted to marry was the one. Too bad God didn't tell them. :P
I've said this multiple times (but not quite in this manner). Often, scientific research has this strange habit of producing the "DUH!!" factor. In other words, though it gets in the weeds, it often tells us what we've known from the get-go (courtesy of Biblical teachings and good old-fashioned common sense).
Everything you bolded from Dr. Lyubomirsky is something that Scripture has pointed out long ago, and you've likely heard in church.
You must be talking to someone else. I haven't bolded anything on this thread. Talk to your boy loco on bolding Dr. Lyubomirsky. Epic pwning of someone on your side of the argument.
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If my wife was unfaithful to me, it's because of me and something I did or didn't do to/for her. People stray because they lose connection with their spouse and get acknowledgement from someone else. So I would be MAN enough to forgive her and work on why it happened.
What if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours? Would you still forgive her and trust her after that? Would you stay with her?
You must be talking to someone else. I haven't bolded anything on this thread. Talk to your boy loco on bolding Dr. Lyubomirsky. Epic pwning of someone on your side of the argument.
I thought MCWAY was talking to me.
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How does your divorce argument say otherwise? Divorce is a mistake, a big one. Christians make mistakes too. Divorce rate is high in the west because it's easy. Divorce rates are much lower in countries where divorce is not so easily granted. It has nothing to do with religion.
If they prayed on it and "God gave them the answer" and they married in the church, only to divorce later because they weren't the "one", how can you say that it has NOTHING to do with religion. They used their faith and trusted it. They married in a church of their choice. Why not just get a court documented wedding then? They chose to use their religion as a structure to complete marriage. Not to mention that usually when people of different faiths marry, there will be disagreements just based on the beliefs. So tell me again how religion is not a factor in divorce.
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If they prayed on it and "God gave them the answer" and they married in the church, only to divorce later because they weren't the "one", how can you say that it has NOTHING to do with religion. They used their faith and trusted it. They married in a church of their choice. Why not just get a court documented wedding then? They chose to use their religion as a structure to complete marriage. Not to mention that usually when people of different faiths marry, there will be disagreements just based on the beliefs. So tell me again how religion is not a factor in divorce.
I fail to follow your logic. Like I said, it is a mistake. Christians make mistakes too. This does not prove that all Christians are unhappy because Christianity makes them unhappy. Isn't that what you are saying in this thread?
Even your atheist buddies here seem to disagree with you.
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I'm a Christian and I'm sober.
You don't understand the quote.
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What if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours? Would you still forgive her and trust her after that? Would you stay with her?
Any family or couple psychiatrist will tell you that a spouse will stray because of mistreatment, being unappreciated, being unacknowledged, etc. If my wife strayed it would be on me. Happy people in a marriage don't stray. It's pretty simple. Now if she got drunk or drugged, which isn't likely to happen since she does neither, of course I would forgive her since she would be mentally incapacitated.
And MCWAY thought he was talking to me, that's why he used the "religious" aspect at the end.
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You don't understand the quote.
Yes, I do. Your quote claims that all Christians are happy because we are delusional(drunk), while atheists are unhappy because they are realists(sober).
I agree that we can be and many of us are happy. I disagree that it is because we are delusional(drunk).
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Any family or couple psychiatrist will tell you that a spouse will stray because of mistreatment, being unappreciated, being unacknowledged, etc. If my wife strayed it would be on me. Happy people in a marriage don't stray. It's pretty simple. Now if she got drunk or drugged, which isn't likely to happen since she does neither, of course I would forgive her since she would be mentally incapacitated.
And MCWAY thought he was talking to me, that's why he used the "religious" aspect at the end.
Yeah yeah, okay. I got that. But what if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours? Would you still forgive her and trust her after that? Would you stay with her?
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What if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours? Would you still forgive her and trust her after that? Would you stay with her?
I thought MCWAY was talking to me.
I was, with regards to that quote. And you bring up a great point about the adultery thing. You can do everything right and STILL have your spouse cheat on you. The point I was making was that Flip's assertion of Christians being miserable, due to a list of "don't do this" and "don't do that" isn't quite right.
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Yes, I do. Your quote claims that all Christians are happy because we are delusional(drunk), while atheists are unhappy because they are realists(sober).
I agree that we can be and many of us are happy. I disagree that it is because we are delusional(drunk).
NO. NO. NO. Please, I hope you are not purposely being idiotic.
The point of the quote is that one's state of feeling, happy or otherwise, has no bearing on whether or not something is true; that evidence exists independent of subjective feelings.
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NO. NO. NO. Please, I hope you are not purposely being idiotic.
The point of the quote is that one's state of feeling, happy or otherwise, has no bearing on whether or not something is true; that evidence exists independent of subjective feelings.
Whatever.
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Whatever.
Very disappointing that you A) did not grasp the meaning of the quote and B) will not further engage the point. I had more respect for you than that caballero.
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Very disappointing that you A) did not grasp the meaning of the quote and B) will not further engage the point. I had more respect for you than that caballero.
Deicide,
yes, I misunderstood the meaning of the quote. Gracias very mucho for explaining the meaning to me!
Ha ha ha. You never had any respect for me. ;D
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I fail to follow your logic. Like I said, it is a mistake. Christians make mistakes too. This does not prove that all Christians are unhappy because Christianity makes them unhappy. Isn't that what you are saying in this thread?
Even your atheist buddies here seem to disagree with you.
No what I asked is if they are "allowed" to be happy being that almost everything done humanly on Earth has some rejection by the Bible. Christians aren't to really care about material wealth, so are the ones that have wealth sinning? According to the Bible they are wretched. Christians are against abortion, but many have them as much as non Christians for reasons to not be unhappy.
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/articles/christianity_abortion.html
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
Why do they do it? Because being with child would make them "unhappy". The stress and money needed is something they aren't ready for. Yet, shouldn't they rely on God to help them make it?
Then there's the helping of the poor and unfortunate. You would admit that more Christians do NOTHING on this than the few that do something. Why? Because they are happier with their lives the way it is, rather than shouldering a burden by helping the poor.
That's why I asked the question. If you followed just what the Bible told you to do strictly, how happy are you going to be?
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deicide die sint gluklich, du bist nicht, las sie sein,
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Yeah yeah, okay. I got that. But what if it wasn't because of anything you did and it was all her fault and no fault of yours? Would you still forgive her and trust her after that? Would you stay with her?
What's your point? I'm not a Christian so what I would do would be moot. Christians rely on their religious beliefs (as do other religions of the world) when it comes to marriage. They shouldn't be unhappy and divorce if they relied on God to help them make their choice.
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What's your point? I'm not a Christian so what I would do would be moot. Christians rely on their religious beliefs (as do other religions of the world) when it comes to marriage. They shouldn't be unhappy and divorce if they relied on God to help them make their choice.
Answering my question with a question?
Okay, but are you going to answer my question or not?
If you don't want to answer it, just say so.
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Any family or couple psychiatrist will tell you that a spouse will stray because of mistreatment, being unappreciated, being unacknowledged, etc.
I can't agree that this is the only possible reason. There are people who have psycho/sociopathic etc. disorders that do this type of thing through no fault of their spouse.
No what I asked is if they are "allowed" to be happy being that almost everything done humanly on Earth has some rejection by the Bible.
Could you give some example of what you mean please Oldschool?
Christians aren't to really care about material wealth, so are the ones that have wealth sinning? According to the Bible they are wretched.
We're not to put our faith in material wealth as it can be as fleeting as our health or our spouse among other reasons. It shouldn't be our "God."
I don't see "having wealth" anywhere in the bible as referred to as being a sin.
If we were to love our material wealth more than God or others, that's when there is a problem.
Can you please post the scripture to which you are referring when you say that people with wealth are wretched?
What's your point? I'm not a Christian so what I would do would be moot. Christians rely on their religious beliefs (as do other religions of the world) when it comes to marriage. They shouldn't be unhappy and divorce if they relied on God to help them make their choice.
But also in reference to your post some people were not Christians when they married but later became Christians. Maybe that would also be a moot point since they didn't "rely on their religious beliefs" when they married?
Also, keep in mind that even Christians don't always "rely on their religious beliefs" when making decisions.
But I know one Pastor that feels like you Oldschool...that Christians should never divorce.
I sold vacuums door to door for more than 10 years
Quick off topic question Oldschool...what kind did you sell and what vacuum brands do you feel are the top 5?
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Answering my question with a question?
Okay, but are you going to answer my question or not?
If you don't want to answer it, just say so.
If she didn't love me anymore, it wouldn't matter if I forgave her or not. At that point the relationship is pretty much done. I would be disappointed and sad, but sooner or later I'd find someone else again IF it came down to it.
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If she didn't love me anymore, it wouldn't matter if I forgave her or not. At that point the relationship is pretty much done. I would be disappointed and sad, but sooner or later I'd find someone else again IF it came down to it.
Maybe you are misunderstanding my question.
Let's say she still loves you, and she wants you to forgive her for her mistake, for you to give her another chance and to stay with her. Would you?
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I can't agree that this is the only possible reason. There are people who have psycho/sociopathic etc. disorders that do this type of thing through no fault of their spouse.
Then it's a mental issue at that point, but not the same as a person whom is considered normal.
Could you give some example of what you mean please Oldschool?
I did STella. I think you tried to answer them.
We're not to put our faith in material wealth as it can be as fleeting as our health or our spouse among other reasons. It shouldn't be our "God."
The problem is I've seen and know many Christians whom don't need a Mercedes or Cadillac since they could use the money to help the poor, yet they buy them.
I don't see "having wealth" anywhere in the bible as referred to as being a sin.
Wouldn't that be under "greed"?
If we were to love our material wealth more than God or others, that's when there is a problem.
Can you please post the scripture to which you are referring when you say that people with wealth are wretched?
Revelations 3:17 "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.
But also in reference to your post some people were not Christians when they married but later became Christians. Maybe that would also be a moot point since they didn't "rely on their religious beliefs" when they married?
Where in my post did I say that STella?
Also, keep in mind that even Christians don't always "rely on their religious beliefs" when making decisions.
But in marriage, not a light decision, especially when they are married in the church and in God's eyes, you would think they would call on him to get an hint or something since he's omnipotent. We're not talking buying a flat screen TV here, we're talking marriage and possible procreation of family.
But I know one Pastor that feels like you Oldschool...that Christians should never divorce.
IMO divorce happens because people whom got married really DIDN'T know the person they were marrying, but thought they did. Also many take their spouse for granted. An old saying I remember : "If we treated our friends like we treat our spouse, we wouldn't have many friends". My wife and I rarely argue, we kiss each other goodnight even if we're mad, and we always apologize after a spat. It's 10 years for us this month and we're hitting a Disney cruise!
Quick off topic question Oldschool...what kind did you sell and what vacuum brands do you feel are the top 5?
Kirby vacuum. And IMO the others are inferior. All plastic pieces of junk that are made to break down so you buy another in a few years. I've had mine for over 19 years and just had to replace the fan and belts. They may cost more , but at an average price of $200 for a decent vacuum that needs replacement after about 7 years, I've saved more than spent more.
[/quote]
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Religion can work like a drug. A euphoric and a hallucinogenic drug. With all of the endorphins and god knows what else running through the veins of people hopped up on Jesus (or Allah or Buddha or substitute any fanciful deity) it is no wonder that they report being so happy and report seeing visions.
Basic human chemistry at work folks. Nothing more.
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Maybe you are misunderstanding my question.
Let's say she still loves you, and she wants you to forgive her for her mistake, for you to give her another chance and to stay with her. Would you?
If she loved me and admitted it was a grave mistake, yes. I love my wife and she's the one I want to be with. She had sex before me, and I before her so the sex part doesn't really bother me. It's whether or not she's committed to the relationship or not since we have a daughter involved. Now like I said, if she wasn't committed, it means she doesn't love me anymore and you move on.
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deicide die sint gluklich, du bist nicht, las sie sein,
:D
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awesome song, how did you come across it?
I see where you're coming from.
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awesome song, how did you come across it?
I see where you're coming from.
I know quite a bit about African politics and things African. It is one of my weird interests.
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No what I asked is if they are "allowed" to be happy being that almost everything done humanly on Earth has some rejection by the Bible.
Could you give some example of what you mean please Oldschool?
I did STella. I think you tried to answer them.
I think you only talked about having wealth. Could you give examples of a few more?
The problem is I've seen and know many Christians whom don't need a Mercedes or Cadillac since they could use the money to help the poor, yet they buy them.
Wouldn't that be under "greed"?
No, I don't think that would be under "greed." Are they only supposed to ride a bike? Or maybe that is too much and they should only walk for transportation? Should they only eat rice and never a steak?
Maybe it's that you have a pre-conceived idea of what percentage of someone's income should go to charity? Some people give 0%.....some give up to 100% of their yearly income. The fact that they don't shout it from the rooftops doesn't mean they aren't giving.
I am not being mean at all on this Oldschool, but just because you see someone with a car or whatever that you think is too expensive doesn't mean they are not giving generously and helping people. Do you see how that is a little judgemental to think so? I know Kirby's can't be cheap. Did you ever feel guilty for selling a Christian a Kirby?
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Revelations 3:17 "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.
Oldschool, the context of Revelation 3:17 is regarding the church in Laodicea.
What is wretched is their PRIDE. Not the fact that they have wealth. When scriptures are taken out of context they can be confusing.
Here, you can read it in context.
To the Church in Laodicea
14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches...
Where in my post did I say that STella?
You didn't. I was making a comparison. You said Christians shouldn't divorce because they used their "religion" to make their choice of spouse....what I'm saying is some people were not Christian when they got married but later became Christians so your point of them using their "religion" being a reason for not divorcing is moot. .....sorry if that was confusing!
But in marriage, not a light decision, especially when they are married in the church and in God's eyes, you would think they would call on him to get an hint or something since he's omnipotent. We're not talking buying a flat screen TV here, we're talking marriage and possible procreation of family.
I agree!
IMO divorce happens because people whom got married really DIDN'T know the person they were marrying, but thought they did. Also many take their spouse for granted. An old saying I remember : "If we treated our friends like we treat our spouse, we wouldn't have many friends". My wife and I rarely argue, we kiss each other goodnight even if we're mad, and we always apologize after a spat. It's 10 years for us this month and we're hitting a Disney cruise!
I agree also! And it sounds like you and your wife have a good relationship..that's wonderful!
Will you be going on The Big Red Boat? I hear they have good babysitting on there so yyou two can get some "alone time" ;D
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Kirby vacuum. And IMO the others are inferior. All plastic pieces of junk that are made to break down so you buy another in a few years. I've had mine for over 19 years and just had to replace the fan and belts. They may cost more , but at an average price of $200 for a decent vacuum that needs replacement after about 7 years, I've saved more than spent more.
I've heard really good things about Kirbys. Is that the one that uses water? Are they heavy?
What do you think of Miehle?
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Oldschool, the context of Revelation 3:17 is regarding the church in Laodicea.
What is wretched is their PRIDE. Not the fact that they have wealth. When scriptures are taken out of context they can be confusing.
Here, you can read it in context.
To the Church in Laodicea
14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches...
Still a church is a gathering of followers, right? It's not directed at the buidling.
You didn't. I was making a comparison. You said Christians shouldn't divorce because they used their "religion" to make their choice of spouse....what I'm saying is some people were not Christian when they got married but later became Christians so your point of them using their "religion" being a reason for not divorcing is moot. .....sorry if that was confusing!
So if the did become Christians after marriage, all the more reason IMO that they shouldn't divorce since they had the "light" shed upon them and knowledge from God. You gotta admit, very few Christians really read the Bible and follow it's contents to a T. I'm saying that people make themselves happy regardless if it does break scripture.
Will you be going on The Big Red Boat? I hear they have good babysitting on there so yyou two can get some "alone time" ;D
Disney Wonder (we went on the Magic the last time), and Palo's reservation is already set. ;D
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I've heard really good things about Kirbys. Is that the one that uses water? Are they heavy?
What do you think of Miehle?
Rainbows use water. Pieces of junk and gimmick selling. Miele is good, but any cannister vacuum is inferior to uprights when it comes to cleaning the deep dirt out of carpeting.
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Still a church is a gathering of followers, right? It's not directed at the buidling.
lol I know you weren't talking about the building ;D
But the scripture you reference is a rebuke to the people in the church of Laodicea. THey weren't getting rebuked for being wealthy but for thinking since they were wealthy they didn't need God or anything He gives them. In reality, they wouldn't have anything good w/o God and he could take it away at any time. The rebuke is about Pride and not Wealth.
So if the did become Christians after marriage, all the more reason IMO that they shouldn't divorce since they had the "light" shed upon them and knowledge from God.
I agree....but I don't condemn them for it (not saying you are condeming them either).
You gotta admit, very few Christians really read the Bible and follow it's contents to a T.
I'd say about zero percent of us do :-\
Disney Wonder (we went on the Magic the last time), and Palo's reservation is already set. ;D
Sweet ;D
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Rainbows use water. Pieces of junk and gimmick selling. Miele is good, but any cannister vacuum is inferior to uprights when it comes to cleaning the deep dirt out of carpeting.
I don't think I've ever heard of Rainbows.
I didn't know that about cannister...I always thought those had more sucking power?
Oldschool, not to stay off topic too much but what about home carpet steam cleaners? I steam clean quite a bit w/2 dogs living here and tend to buy Bissell steam cleaners. But I've bought about 3 of them and the one I have now is on it's last legs. Any steam cleaner suggestions please?
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I don't think I've ever heard of Rainbows.
I didn't know that about cannister...I always thought those had more sucking power?
The reason why they don't do well is because all the air passes through a 1 1/2 tube then they try to spread that power through a portable head. Now think of vacuuming your whole carpet with just that 1 1/2 inch opening to keep the airflow higher.
Oldschool, not to stay off topic too much but what about home carpet steam cleaners? I steam clean quite a bit w/2 dogs living here and tend to buy Bissell steam cleaners. But I've bought about 3 of them and the one I have now is on it's last legs. Any steam cleaner suggestions please?
It's more important to get the dirt out of the carpet with a good cleaner. Steam cleaning, which is misnamed since they use "hot water" and not steam, can do worse than you think. Here's why:
1. If you already have a lot of dirt in your carpet and mix dirt with water you make...mud. Which is much harder to suck out of the carpet than "dry dirt".
2. Practically all carpeting has padding under it. Where the carpet may feel dry on top, the padding could still be damp and wet. Damp, wet and warm conditions harbor mold and mildew. That's why some carpets smell bad even after cleaning.
3. Normally you'll remove all furniture since you don't want water "stuck" under legs, tables or cabinets since it may ruin the wood or finish.
Getting the dirt out solves the main issue. For stains, I would recommend Chem Dry or any "dry cleaning" agent. Kirby vacuums have attachments that "dry" clean carpets too. Here's a link:
&feature=related
That small tank will do that whole room. So usually the carpet dries in about an hour or less.
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It's more important to get the dirt out of the carpet with a good cleaner. Steam cleaning, which is misnamed since they use "hot water" and not steam, can do worse than you think. Here's why:
1. If you already have a lot of dirt in your carpet and mix dirt with water you make...mud. Which is much harder to suck out of the carpet than "dry dirt".
2. Practically all carpeting has padding under it. Where the carpet may feel dry on top, the padding could still be damp and wet. Damp, wet and warm conditions harbor mold and mildew. That's why some carpets smell bad even after cleaning.
3. Normally you'll remove all furniture since you don't want water "stuck" under legs, tables or cabinets since it may ruin the wood or finish.
Getting the dirt out solves the main issue. For stains, I would recommend Chem Dry or any "dry cleaning" agent. Kirby vacuums have attachments that "dry" clean carpets too. Here's a link:
&feature=related
That small tank will do that whole room. So usually the carpet dries in about an hour or less.
I looked up Chem Dry and see you can get some product at Home Depot but the site isn't that great on showing what it is. Is it like a dry powder that you shake on and vacuum up or is Chem Dry a Service you have to call and have people come to your home?
That Kirby cleaner looked pretty good to me! Do you have the dry clean attachment? What was he doing when he would been down and turn/push? something everytime he changed direction from backward to forward?
Oldschool, if you want me to I can split this topic and move our vacuum posts to General or I guess we could PM ;D
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I looked up Chem Dry and see you can get some product at Home Depot but the site isn't that great on showing what it is. Is it like a dry powder that you shake on and vacuum up or is Chem Dry a Service you have to call and have people come to your home?
That Kirby cleaner looked pretty good to me! Do you have the dry clean attachment? What was he doing when he would been down and turn/push? something everytime he changed direction from backward to forward?
Oldschool, if you want me to I can split this topic and move our vacuum posts to General or I guess we could PM ;D
Yeah I have the whole shebang! Haven't paid for carpet cleaning at all since I've rented or owned a home. First you apply the "dry foam" to the carpet, let it sit for about 10 minutes then go back over the area, sans releasing any more foam, and the brushes scrub the surface area of the carpet. You can clean one room in about 20-30 minutes without having to move all your furniture out since it's usually clean under furniture.
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;D
Unhappy people watch more TV: study
Tue Nov 18, 2008
LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) – An extensive new research study has found that unhappy people watch more TV while those consider themselves happy spend more time reading and socializing.
The University of Maryland analyzed 34 years of data collected from more than 45,000 participants and found that watching TV might make you feel good in the short term but is more likely to lead to overall unhappiness.
"The pattern for daily TV use is particularly dramatic, with 'not happy' people estimating over 30 percent more TV hours per day than 'very happy' people," the study says. "Television viewing is a pleasurable enough activity with no lasting benefit, and it pushes aside time spent in other activities -- ones that might be less immediately pleasurable, but that would provide long-term benefits in one's condition. In other words, TV does cause people to be less happy."
The study, published in the December issue of Social Indicators Research, analyzed data from thousands of people who recorded their daily activities in diaries over the course of several decades. Researchers found that activities such as sex, reading and socializing correlated with the highest levels of overall happiness.
Watching TV, on the other hand, was the only activity that had a direct correlation with unhappiness.
"TV is not judgmental nor difficult, so people with few social skills or resources for other activities can engage in it," says the study. "Furthermore, chronic unhappiness can be socially and personally debilitating and can interfere with work and most social and personal activities, but even the unhappiest people can click a remote and be passively entertained by a TV. In other words, the causal order is reversed for people who watch television; unhappiness leads to television viewing."
Unhappily married couples also watch more TV: "(Happily married couples) engage in 30 percent more sex, and they attend religious services more and read newspapers on more days," reports the study. "While those not happy with their marriages watch more TV."
Yet there may be good news here for broadcasters. Commenting on the study, co-author John P. Robinson said the worsening economy could boost TV viewing.
"Through good and bad economic times, our diary studies, have consistently found that work is the major activity correlate of higher TV viewing hours," Robinson says. "As people have progressively more time on their hands, viewing hours increase."
Concludes the study: "These points have parallels with addiction; since addictive activities produce momentary pleasure but long-term misery and regret. People most vulnerable to addiction tend to be socially or personally disadvantaged, with TV becoming an opiate."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081118/en_nm/us_misery
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Unhappily married couples also watch more TV: "(Happily married couples) engage in 30 percent more sex, and they attend religious services more and read newspapers on more days," reports the study. "While those not happy with their marriages watch more TV."
I have lots of friends whom are married that don't attend religious services.I also have family and friends who attend religious service and are still unhappy. I believe more unhappy married couples are unhappy because of loss of connection to their spouse, rather than not attending a religious service.