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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on November 14, 2008, 10:23:44 AM
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Isn't this the next step? Not just polygamy, but a "bisexual" man marrying a woman and a man?
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Isn't this the next step? Not just polygamy, but a "bisexual" man marrying a woman and a man?
Sure, why not... once you open up that Pandora's box all sorts of people out there will be clamoring for their "right" to "marry" in whatever way they wish to define it. It's just a matter of time.
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I am going to marry my cat.
I'm going to the Social Security office today to get an SSN for her.
You bigots can't take away my rights >:(
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I don't care who gets married but I think all married people should be stripped of all tax benefits and associated privileges. Why are married people more special than people who are not married? The same people who enjoy all the marriage entitlements complain about entitlements for other people and other things; I say get rid of all the entitlements. If marriage is that special there should be no bonuses for being married; all married people should be thrilled just to be married.
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I want to marry Shania Twain.
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Sure, why not... once you open up that Pandora's box all sorts of people out there will be clamoring for their "right" to "marry" in whatever way they wish to define it. It's just a matter of time.
Pandora's Box is right. We really are moving towards a state of confusion IMO.
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Pandora's Box is right. We really are moving towards a state of confusion IMO.
Since you are thrilled to be married I am sure you would not object to the loss of all your special entitlements for that status? No?
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Since you are thrilled to be married I am sure you would not object to the loss of all your special entitlements for that status? No?
Of course I object to your hypothetical question that will never happen. But that's not why I created the thread.
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Of course I object to your hypothetical question that will never happen. But that's not why I created the thread.
Why should you get special privileges just because you are married?
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Isn't this the next step? Not just polygamy, but a "bisexual" man marrying a woman and a man?
Personally, I couldn't give less of a shit
Why do you care what other people do or want to do?
It has no effect on you so why not just mind your own business
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Personally, I couldn't give less of a shit
Why do you care what other people do or want to do?
It has no effect on you so why not just mind your own business
Totally agree Straw; you are the man; I don't give a shit if two gays want to marry or if a brother and sister do either; it has nothing to do with me. I just want to do my thing and be left alone; more power to others who want to fuck the same sex or their sibling.
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Personally, I couldn't give less of a shit
Why do you care what other people do or want to do?
It has no effect on you so why not just mind your own business
Totally agree Straw; you are the man; I don't give a shit if two gays want to marry or if a brother and sister do either; it has nothing to do with me. I just want to do my thing and be left alone; more power to others who want to fuck the same sex or their sibling.
Personally I couldn't give less of a shit either, I can't see it from my backyard.
BUT that's a classic lame old argument. The fact is that no man is an island. Society is obviously made up of individuals. Individual actions affect society as a whole. And individual disorder and chaos spreads into societal chaos. That's just how it works. A "state of confusion" as Beach Bum put it. A deterioration of order and civilization in society in general. This is how it starts.
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Totally agree Straw; you are the man; I don't give a shit if two gays want to marry or if a brother and sister do either; it has nothing to do with me. I just want to do my thing and be left alone; more power to others who want to fuck the same sex or their sibling.
who said anything about brother and sister?
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Personally I couldn't give less of a shit either, I can't see it from my backyard.
BUT that's a classic lame old argument. The fact is that no man is an island. Society is obviously made up of individuals. Individual actions affect society as a whole. And individual disorder and chaos spreads into societal chaos. That's just how it works. A "state of confusion" as Beach Bum put it. A deterioration of order and civilization in society in general. This is how it starts.
Absolutely correct.
Also, this isn't about what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms, which I don't care about (if it involves consenting adults), it's about using the government to legitimize certain behaviors, conduct, etc.
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Absolutely correct.
Also, this isn't about what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms, which I don't care about (if it involves consenting adults), it's about using the government to legitimize certain behaviors, conduct, etc.
Why do people who are against gay marriage always conflate it with polygamy, incest, beastiality etc...?
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Why do people who are against gay marriage always conflate it with polygamy, incest, beastiality etc...?
The question is, why don't you? What's the difference in your mind?
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who said anything about brother and sister?
You don't think a brother or sister should be allowed to marry?
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You don't think a brother or sister should be allowed to marry?
lol. That's where we are headed.
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lol. That's where we are headed.
Where do you get the right to dictate to others what they can and can't do? Would you like it if the government created an anti-blowjob law and started patroling households to make sure it didn't happen and your wife got arrested while sucking your dick?
I don't care what others do as long as it doesn't affect me. I am a Libertarian. Two siblings fucking each other has nothing to do with me. It's not my thing but then again religious maniacs running around picketing the funerals of dead soldiers isn't my thing either.
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Where do you get the right to dictate to others what they can and can't do? Would you like it if the government created an anti-blowjob law and started patroling households to make sure it didn't happen and your wife got arrested while sucking your dick?
I don't care what others do as long as it doesn't affect me. I am a Libertarian. Two siblings fucking each other has nothing to do with me. It's not my thing but then again religious maniacs running around picketing the funerals of dead soldiers isn't my thing either.
I have no more or no less rights to "dictate to others what they can and can't do" than any other voter. That's where we get our laws. Society makes judgments and passes laws to regulate conduct. That's why you can't have sex with a child.
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I am going to marry my cat.
I'm going to the Social Security office today to get an SSN for her.
You bigots can't take away my rights >:(
At least once you marry your cat, you'll get more pussy than you are now. ;D
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You don't think a brother or sister should be allowed to marry?
personally, no but only for the obvious genetic reasons.
if some brother and sister want to fuck and have kids than some law ain't gonna stop them.
Personally, I don't care what anyone does if it's between consenting adults and doesn't infringe on my rights
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The question is, why don't you? What's the difference in your mind?
animals can't consent and incest creates genetic problems - but then you probably already knew that.
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I've got a simple solution to this non-problem.
Heterosexual Marriage leads to Homosexual Marriage (this must be true - where else would gays get the idea)
We must simply outlaw marriage for Heterosexuals and then we'll all be safe
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personally, no but only for the obvious genetic reasons.
if some brother and sister want to fuck and have kids than some law ain't gonna stop them.
Personally, I don't care what anyone does if it's between consenting adults and doesn't infringe on my rights
That's my point. Not for me but to each his own. Fucking religious idiots have to go and impose their delusions on everyone else though...
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Isn't this the next step? Not just polygamy, but a "bisexual" man marrying a woman and a man?
How long until non-gay same-sex marriage becomes a reality? What if a friend needs health insurance? What if someone wants a few wives?
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animals can't consent and incest creates genetic problems - but then you probably already knew that.
You seem to have some clearly-drawn boundaries in your mind about what is and isn't OK... which some might argue are as arbitrary as you accuse the traditional marriage folks of being... What about polygamy/polygyny/polyandry in all its variations? And what about the NAMBLA dudes... that's the next thing coming down the pike... they want their rights too... they'll argue about what the age and criteria of consent ought to be... what's the difference? I'm sure bestiality proponents would also argue what constitutes "consent" and pretty soon they'll be demanding their legal rights too... Where is the logical conclusion of all of it?
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How long until non-gay same-sex marriage becomes a reality? What if a friend needs health insurance? What if someone wants a few wives?
If that's what they want then that's what they want; you don't have to do it.
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How long until non-gay same-sex marriage becomes a reality? What if a friend needs health insurance? What if someone wants a few wives?
It will be a reality. People have sham marriages now for immigration/citizenship purposes.
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You seem to have some clearly-drawn boundaries in your mind about what is and isn't OK... which some might argue are as arbitrary as you accuse the traditional marriage folks of being... What about polygamy/polygyny/polyandry in all its variations? And what about the NAMBLA dudes... that's the next thing coming down the pike... they want their rights too... they'll argue about what the age and criteria of consent ought to be... what's the difference? I'm sure bestiality proponents would also argue what constitutes "consent" and pretty soon they'll be demanding their legal rights too... Where is the logical conclusion of all of it?
This ain't difficult - consenting adults - man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, man/man/woman etc...
Frankly, if a brother and sister want to get married I really don't care but there are legitimate medical reasons why they should never have kids. Has anyone ever heard of a brother and sister who want to get married. I've seen one story about this in my entire life and I think it was somewhere in Germany. To compare something so rare that it's practically non-existent with gays is stupid.
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At least once you marry your cat, you'll get more pussy than you are now. ;D
]
Shit ain't that the truth ;D
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Why should you get special privileges just because you are married?
What special privledges do married people get?
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Another thread about controlling other people brought to you by advocates of personal freedom and governmental non-interference.
Look out, if we let consenting adults marry, then the slippery slope is greased: hello NAMBLA, Goats, dogs and anything else the bigoted minds can come up with.
The level of paranoia in this country is really something.
I have to go now. I think my neighbor is smoking marijuana. I've been watching her all day through her kitchen window, taking notes, and I'm certain she's getting high. I better get back to my window downstairs and watch her some more.
I think it's about time I do the right thing and call the cops....anonymously of course.
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Another thread about controlling other people brought to you by advocates of personal freedom and governmental non-interference.
Look out, if we let consenting adults marry, then the slippery slope is greased: hello NAMBLA, Goats, dogs and anything else the bigoted minds can come up with.
The level of paranoia in this country is really something.
I have to go now. I think my neighbor is smoking marijuana. I've been watching her all day through her kitchen window, taking notes, and I'm certain she's getting high. I better get back to my window downstairs and watch her some more.
I think it's about time I do the right thing and call the cops....anonymously of course.
LOL. ;D
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This ain't difficult - consenting adults - man/woman, man/man, woman/woman, man/man/woman etc...
Frankly, if a brother and sister want to get married I really don't care but there are legitimate medical reasons why they should never have kids. Has anyone ever heard of a brother and sister who want to get married. I've seen one story about this in my entire life and I think it was somewhere in Germany. To compare something so rare that it's practically non-existent with gays is stupid.
You addressed incest, which I didn't even ask about in my post. But what about all that other stuff that I did ask about? Who's to say your definition of what's OK is any more or less arbitrary than mine? Where does it end? And you also didn't address exactly what defines "consent." That's totally open to interpretation.
Everybody wants their rights. But nobody wants to talk about duty or responsibility or personal accountability. Much less the old antiquated outdated notions of right and wrong.
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You addressed incest, which I didn't even ask about in my post. But what about all that other stuff that I did ask about? Who's to say your definition of what's OK is any more or less arbitrary than mine? Where does it end?
Everybody wants their rights. But nobody wants to talk about duty or responsibility or personal accountability. Much less the old antiquated outdated notions of right and wrong.
it's SIMPLE
Consenting adults humans = none of my business.
That's the beginning and end.
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You addressed incest, which I didn't even ask about in my post. But what about all that other stuff that I did ask about? Who's to say your definition of what's OK is any more or less arbitrary than mine? Where does it end? And you also didn't address exactly what defines "consent." That's totally open to interpretation.
Everybody wants their rights. But nobody wants to talk about duty or responsibility or personal accountability. Much less the old antiquated outdated notions of right and wrong.
These things have become irrelevant in modern society. It's all about what you can get personally these days.
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These things have become irrelevant in modern society. It's all about what you can get personally these days.
What does responsibility have to do with gays and gay marriage? ???
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What does responsibility have to do with gays and gay marriage? ???
Thank you for beautifully illustrating what Hereford pointed out. You're so myopic you can't see past the end of your nose.
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People should also be able to marry pets.
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Thank you for beautifully illustrating what Hereford pointed out. You're so myopic you can't see past the end of your nose.
Then please explain in light of my myopia...
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Then please explain in light of my myopia...
Because you can't see the relationship between the marriage issue and individual responsibility to keep the moral fabric of society intact.
I know those are all tired, trite cliches to so many people anymore. But they still mean something and ignoring them has repercussions.
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it's SIMPLE
Consenting adults humans = none of my business.
That's the beginning and end.
Then, to pedophiles, you're just as "bigoted", as heteros who want marriage to be a 1M-1W union are.
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Then, to pedophiles, you're just as "bigoted", as heteros who want marriage to be a 1M-1W union are.
By definition, a pedophile cannot be in a consenting relationship. A child lacks the legal capacity to consent.
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Why do people who are against gay marriage always conflate it with polygamy, incest, beastiality etc...?
Because the claim that changing the gender rules about marriage is about "civil rights", but changing the numbers rule, family relation rule, or even the human being rule (items that even most gay activists condemn themselves) makes no sense.
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By definition, a pedophile cannot be in a consenting relationship. A child lacks the legal capacity to consent.
Tell that to NAMBLA.
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By definition, a pedophile cannot be in a consenting relationship. A child lacks the legal capacity to consent.
Then we'll change the legal definition of "consent!" I'm sure pedophiles have all sorts of compelling arguments why it should be changed.
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Tell that to NAMBLA.
Why should I? It's a legal fact in 50 of our 57 states.
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Homosexuality is a mental illness. The mentally ill cannot legally enter into contracts in most states, INCLUDING California. Marriage is a contract. Connect the dots. ;)
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Then we'll change the legal definition of "consent!" I'm sure pedophiles have all sorts of compelling arguments why it should be changed.
You and Beach Bum will say anything to make your point.
Forget the fact that homosexual marriages are between two consenting adults.
What about pervert child molesters wanting to have sex with kids and then marry them? What about 'em. What do they have to do with the topic at hand?
Slippery slope arguments are fairly weak b/c of the necessity of factual and logical leaps and bounds.
This is no different.
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Homosexuality is a mental illness. The mentally ill cannot legally enter into contracts in most states, INCLUDING California. Marriage is a contract. Connect the dots. ;)
That's not true. Many states do recognize contracts made by the insane.
And your precept is wrong. Homos have been around since the beginning of time. In Classical Antiquity the bravest of the warriors had their dalliances with their young apprentices and it was viewed as normal.
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That's not true. Many states do recognize contracts made by the insane.
And your precept is wrong. Homos have been around since the beginning of time. In Classical Antiquity the bravest of the warriors had their dalliances with their young apprentices and it was viewed as normal.
Well shit then.... The pedo part is ok then too.....
Ya can't pick out what suits you man.......
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Homosexuality is a mental illness. The mentally ill cannot legally enter into contracts in most states, INCLUDING California. Marriage is a contract. Connect the dots. ;)
I am surprised you would make a statement like this; you are kidding, right? ???
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Well shit then.... The pedo part is ok then too.....
Ya can't pick out what suits you man.......
Nah, there are laws against that.
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Well shit then.... The pedo part is ok then too.....
Ya can't pick out what suits you man.......
What is your personal issue with homosexuality?
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You and Beach Bum will say anything to make your point.
Forget the fact that homosexual marriages are between two consenting adults.
What about pervert child molesters wanting to have sex with kids and then marry them? What about 'em. What do they have to do with the topic at hand?
Slippery slope arguments are fairly weak b/c of the necessity of factual and logical leaps and bounds.
This is no different.
There aren't a whole lot of factual and logical leaps required. Here are some facts:
1. The homosexual rights movement includes "gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered" people, and transvestites too.
2. There are laws on the books changing the definition of gender to mean whatever a person wants it to mean on any given day: "Gender identity or expression" includes a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression; regardless of whether that gender identity, gender-related self image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth.
3. There is a movement in Hawaii and other places to make "gender identity" a protected class. It has been partly successful here already.
4. We have a few state court decisions saying there can be no discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation when it comes to marriage.
Given all of this, where is the enormous logical leap to people advocating equal rights for bisexuals and on the basis of "gender identity" seeking to marry two people of different genders? Isn’t precluding marriage on that basis discrimination against bisexuals?
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Nah, there are laws against that.
So for years and years there were laws against homosexuality too! You're ignoring the fact that you're being totally arbitrary here, basing your judgments on current law. Just like Hereford said--you're picking and choosing based on some arbitrary set of values. Yet you're the one saying that "slippery slope" arguments are weak because "of the necessity of factual and logical leaps and bounds."
Pot, meet kettle.
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There aren't a whole lot of factual and logical leaps required. Here are some facts:
1. The homosexual rights movement includes "gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered" people, and transvestites too.
2. There are laws on the books changing the definition of gender to mean whatever a person wants it to mean on any given day: "Gender identity or expression" includes a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression; regardless of whether that gender identity, gender-related self image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth.
3. There is a movement in Hawaii and other places to make "gender identity" a protected class. It has been partly successful here already.
4. We have a few state court decisions saying there can be no discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation when it comes to marriage.
Given all of this, where is the enormous logical leap to people advocating equal rights for bisexuals and on the basis of "gender identity" seeking to marry two people of different genders? Isn’t precluding marriage on that basis discrimination against bisexuals?
The fags and dikes are coming for you and your children, watch out!
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The fags and dikes are coming for you and your children, watch out!
You'll never hear me use that kind of language. You must be a homophobe.
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Yes, if your are going to apply a specific logic to something, apply it universally. Don't magically apply it to whatever suits your cause.
"My view is natural, but those other guys, they are all behavioral deviants". ::)
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You'll never hear me use that kind of language. You must be a homophobe.
The irony is lost to you.
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The irony is lost to you.
The sarcasm is lost on you.
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The sarcasm is lost on you.
Hardly.
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The question is, why don't you? What's the difference in your mind?
right now, in the US, how many siblings are in loving committed (sexual) relationships? how many people are in bisexual polygamous relationships? how many people are in loving committed same-sex relationships? My guess is that the first two is a few hundred, maybe a few thousand, while there are millions of people in same-sex relationships. what this indicates is that same sex relationships are a natural and not uncommon expression of human sexuality.
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right now, in the US, how many siblings are in loving committed (sexual) relationships? how many people are in bisexual polygamous relationships? how many people are in loving committed same-sex relationships? My guess is that the first two is a few hundred, maybe a few thousand, while there are millions of people in same-sex relationships. what this indicates is that same sex relationships are a natural and not uncommon expression of human sexuality.
So it's a question of degrees? Where exactly is the cutoff line to what's natural and not uncommon? If something is practiced by 1000 people? By 10,000? 100,000? 1 million?
Again... this all seems pretty nebulous and arbitrary when applying your own criteria.
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So if NAMBLA had 20 million members they would be legit?
This doesn't seem to be an issue numbers matter much.
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Why do you care so much about what two consentual adults do in the privacy of their own home?
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Why do you care so much about what two consentual adults do in the privacy of their own home?
I don't care at all.
I'm more interested in the argument process itself. It's just dishonest and stupid to compare them to blacks or believe blacks would be pro-gay marriage because we know how gays feel. The black community is far more conservative than people are willing to accept on matters like gay marriage and abortion.
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Why do you care so much about what two consentual adults do in the privacy of their own home?
This question has already been asked and answered multiple times, just in case you weren't paying attention:
Personally, I couldn't give less of a shit
Why do you care what other people do or want to do?
It has no effect on you so why not just mind your own business
Personally I couldn't give less of a shit either, I can't see it from my backyard.
BUT that's a classic lame old argument. The fact is that no man is an island. Society is obviously made up of individuals. Individual actions affect society as a whole. And individual disorder and chaos spreads into societal chaos. That's just how it works. A "state of confusion" as Beach Bum put it. A deterioration of order and civilization in society in general. This is how it starts.
Absolutely correct.
Also, this isn't about what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms, which I don't care about (if it involves consenting adults), it's about using the government to legitimize certain behaviors, conduct, etc.
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Personally I couldn't give less of a shit either, I can't see it from my backyard.
BUT that's a classic lame old argument. The fact is that no man is an island. Society is obviously made up of individuals. Individual actions affect society as a whole. And individual disorder and chaos spreads into societal chaos. That's just how it works. A "state of confusion" as Beach Bum put it. A deterioration of order and civilization in society in general. This is how it starts.
paranoid much?
wtf are you talking about?
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There aren't a whole lot of factual and logical leaps required. Here are some facts:
1. The homosexual rights movement includes "gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered" people, and transvestites too.
2. There are laws on the books changing the definition of gender to mean whatever a person wants it to mean on any given day: "Gender identity or expression" includes a person's actual or perceived gender, as well as a person's gender identity, gender-related self-image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression; regardless of whether that gender identity, gender-related self image, gender-related appearance, or gender-related expression is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth.
3. There is a movement in Hawaii and other places to make "gender identity" a protected class. It has been partly successful here already.
4. We have a few state court decisions saying there can be no discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation when it comes to marriage.
Given all of this, where is the enormous logical leap to people advocating equal rights for bisexuals and on the basis of "gender identity" seeking to marry two people of different genders? Isn’t precluding marriage on that basis discrimination against bisexuals?
Isn't that "pregnant man" from Hawaii?
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Isn't that "pregnant man" from Hawaii?
Not sure. He doesn't live here. That whole situation is just bizarre. :-\
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I don't care who gets married but I think all married people should be stripped of all tax benefits and associated privileges. Why are married people more special than people who are not married? The same people who enjoy all the marriage entitlements complain about entitlements for other people and other things; I say get rid of all the entitlements. If marriage is that special there should be no bonuses for being married; all married people should be thrilled just to be married.
Exactly. No group should ever have rights or privileges that an individual does not.
Government giving benefits to married couples is social engineering.
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Isn't this the next step? Not just polygamy, but a "bisexual" man marrying a woman and a man?
It'll never happen as it's a divergence from an egalitarian society. Polygamous basically means polygyny, and these kinds of societies create an imbalance, which promotes competitiveness and violence among males who will not be privy to a relationship. Women and children pay the price in poverty. It isn't even a question of equal rights. It's a question of freedom of religion.
We can already see within rogue fundie mormon groups what this kind of society brings, and it's unacceptable.
This is just fearmongering.
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How are you defining 'man' and 'woman'?
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How are you defining 'man' and 'woman'?
By nature. The man is the one with the penis. The woman is the one with the vagina.