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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on November 21, 2008, 07:56:55 AM
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Put this on the list of more broken campaign promises by ZERO. Just like his grandmother and Rev. Wright, the gays are getting thrown under the bus and Obama now claims he wont end dont ask dont tell despite promises to the gay "community" that he would.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/21/obama-to-delay-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/
Just remember, you guys voted for him.
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He's delaying it.
Probably a good move.
I think your hatred or whatever you call it for Obama is making you nit pick stuff a bit.
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They need to leave this one alone.....no social engineering. Yeah a bunch of retired Generals and Admirals said we should do it.....RETIRED being the key word. Forget it, the policy works fine.
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He's delaying it.
Probably a good move.
I think your hatred or whatever you call it for Obama is making you nit pick stuff a bit.
And when the military chiefs tell him its a terrible idea and the Don't Ask Dont Tell has worked fine, then what???????????
This is political talk for ZERO not carrying through with his promises and he is going to use the military chiefs' advise as to why he is not going to do it.
BTW - I am going to treat ZERO the same way liberals treated GWB and are now treating Palin.
Why do you think Obama did not come out in favor of Prop 8 for CA?????????????????????
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People need to realise that Obama is just another scumbag politician who lied to get into office.
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They need to leave this one alone.....no social engineering. Yeah a bunch of retired Generals and Admirals said we should do it.....RETIRED being the key word. Forget it, the policy works fine.
The policy is ridiculous. It was simply a gay compromise by Clinton and the ancient homophones who are now retired.
I remember having a long drawn out argument with Millitarymuscle69 over this 2 years ago. I argued that it would eventually happen in the next 10 years but i never though it would happen this quick.
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And when the military chiefs tell him its a terrible idea and the Don't Ask Dont Tell has worked fine, then what???????????
This is political talk for ZERO not carrying through with his promises and he is going to use the military chiefs' advise as to why he is not going to do it.
BTW - I am going to treat ZERO the same way liberals treated GWB and are now treating Palin.
Why do you think Obama did not come out in favor of Prop 8 for CA?????????????????????
I don't know about all that. But politically, what he's doing makes good sense. So i don't see fault in it. I don't see this as a broken promise. If he said, I'm not going to do anything at all then I'd call it a broken promise.
The General are going to resist it. They will always resist change. That's what older successful people do. ;D
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It pretty damm simple Ozmo..u have alot...alot of evengelical christians among the Officer Corp, and among many senior NCO's especially senior NCO's. They won't stand for it. I won't take to kindly to some out of the closet cock sucker, tromping through the office in drag off to bang a guy. If they want to serve, do it...but I don't need to see them do their other shit openly. I have first hand experience dealing with a kid who said he was gay. We delt with it according to the regs and it worked out ok for everybody.
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He doesn't need to mess with it at this point. There would seem to be alot more lesbians then fags.....
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It pretty damm simple Ozmo..u have alot...alot of evengelical christians among the Officer Corp, and among many senior NCO's especially senior NCO's. They won't stand for it. I won't take to kindly to some out of the closet cock sucker, tromping through the office in drag off to bang a guy. If they want to serve, do it...but I don't need to see them do their other shit openly. I have first hand experience dealing with a kid who said he was gay. We delt with it according to the regs and it worked out ok for everybody.
The same exact sh1t happened when Clinton imposed it years ago. The Military built a bridge and got over themselves. They build another one.
Time to evolve to the next stage!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAH
j/k I share some empathy for your concerns.
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If u have 10 serving gays...8 will do their jobs and be fine...its the other 2 that will be either monster leather hat wearing and assless chaps dudes or super flamboyant wacko's. The first time an 18 year SAW gunner from Iowa walks in on his roommate blowing another dude....and blows the two guys to hell, that will be the end of that. Why risk it, leave it alone.
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If u have 10 serving gays...8 will do their jobs and be fine...its the other 2 that will be either monster leather hat wearing and assless chaps dudes or super flamboyant wacko's. The first time an 18 year SAW gunner from Iowa walks in on his roommate blowing another dude....and blows the two guys to hell, that will be the end of that. Why risk it, leave it alone.
Sounds like the 18 year old SAW gunner needs to grow/evolve the fvck up or spend the rest of his life in jail for being a murderous moron.
All Growth/change comes with pain and adjustment. Many modern armies have allowed gays and they made it work.
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Sounds like the 18 year old SAW gunner needs to grow/evolve the fvck up or spend the rest of his life in jail for being a murderous moron.
All Growth/change comes with pain and adjustment. Many modern armies have allowed gays and they made it work.
No, you need to stop meddling with the best military in the history of mankind. That saw gunnner is what allows you to have the right to mock his beliefs in the first place.
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No, you need to stop meddling with the best military in the history of mankind. That saw gunnner is what allows you to have the right to mock his beliefs in the first place.
I'm mocking his beliefs that justifies murder? ::)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
unbelievable. the guy just commitment murder and i said he should be thrown in jail for life and you say I'm mocking him?
The best military in the world is the best, not because of don't ask don't tell.
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BTW we are the best military of this age. But arguably not in the history of man.
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Risking thowing the thread off..who would u consider the best.
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BTW we are the best military of this age. But arguably not in the history of man.
No, if a small number of gays keep their mouths and asses STFU in orde to keep cohesion amongst the 99% of the other soldiers, they should be booted out of the military.
Unit cohesion and discipline is of the the utmost importance, not social engineering of the military fighting men and women.
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This is what its all about. We're at war, stick to business.
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Risking thowing the thread off..who would u consider the best.
I said "arguably" because you have to consider each age. For example, you have the Mongol of the 1100's, the Huns of the 400's, the Romans, the Germans of 41-42, the Russians of 44, etc.
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No, if a small number of gays keep their mouths and asses STFU in orde to keep cohesion amongst the 99% of the other soldiers, they should be booted out of the military.
Unit cohesion and discipline is of the the utmost importance, not social engineering of the military fighting men and women.
I agree, however, Social evolution prevents regression.
There are GAYS in the military smoking pole right now. Not much would change.
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No, you need to stop meddling with the best military in the history of mankind. That saw gunnner is what allows you to have the right to mock his beliefs in the first place.
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LMAO.... best gimmic ever! He has to be Hugo, surely!
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I said "arguably" because you have to consider each age. For example, you have the Mongol of the 1100's, the Huns of the 400's, the Romans, the Germans of 41-42, the Russians of 44, etc.
Our nation has been extremely restrained in how we wage war.
Those countries you listed were seeking to build an empire, we have not done that. After WW2 we easily could have taken Europe and Russia if we wanted, but did not.
The Russians were only good because they sacrificed so many of their own to slaughter and the germans ran out bullets. The Russians really were evil people in what they did. The Germans were just as bad, but it was terrible all around.
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I agree, however, Social evolution prevents regression.
There are GAYS in the military smoking pole right now. Not much would change.
Being gay and promoting a gay agenda is not progess. I dont know where you got that nonsense.
We must have policies that allow the military to do what it is meant to do, kill people and break things.
If having gays serve openly does that, fine I am for it. If not, then they need to either not join or keep quiet about their gayness.
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Our nation has been extremely restrained in how we wage war.
Those countries you listed were seeking to build an empire, we have not done that. After WW2 we easily could have taken Europe and Russia if we wanted, but did not.
The Russians were only good because they sacrificed so many of their own to slaughter and the germans ran out bullets. The Russians really were evil people in what they did. The Germans were just as bad, but it was terrible all around.
You are very incorrect about WW2.
"the Russians were only good...."
The Russians had better tanks, better artillery, and larger army and had been fighting the Germans for 4 years on a 2 thousand mile front.
The real war, was the eastern front. We had roughly 50 divisions in Europe at the end of the war. Russia had over 150.
I'm not saying we would have surely lost, I'm saying to beat them would have been unlikely.
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Being gay and promoting a gay agenda is not progess. I dont know where you got that nonsense.
We must have policies that allow the military to do what it is meant to do, kill people and break things.
If having gays serve openly does that, fine I am for it. If not, then they need to either not join or keep quiet about their gayness.
Who's talking about a gay agenda? Why do you constantly twist shit around? First you say I'm mocking a persons beliefs when i say a person who commits a murder should be punished for it, then you connect social evolution to promoting the gay agenda.
If you are going to debate this at least be accurate. FFS.
There are gays everywhere in every walk of life. The policy (don't ask don't tell) promotes denial. Denial is social regression. Social evolution would be acknowledging the reality. The 18 SAW gunner needs to grow the fvck up and get over it or regress his ass in jail for murder. (BTW in jail, he'll likely become someone's bitch)
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You are very incorrect about WW2.
"the Russians were only good...."
The Russians had better tanks, better artillery, and larger army and had been fighting the Germans for 4 years on a 2 thousand mile front.
The real war, was the eastern front. We had roughly 50 divisions in Europe at the end of the war. Russia had over 150.
I'm not saying we would have surely lost, I'm saying to beat them would have been unlikely.
They had quantity not quality. Their good tanks only came out at the end.
They threw their men away like garbage in that war to be fodder. Many of their men were not even given guns and told to take them off the dead soldiers.
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They had quantity not quality. Their good tanks only came out at the end.
They threw their men away like garbage in that war to be fodder. Many of their men were not even given guns and told to take them off the dead soldiers.
Zukov (soviet General of Central Army) sacrificed many men in the battle for Berlin at Sealow heights because Stalin was threatening to sack him as he put him in competition with 2 other soviet armies north and south of him.
Your statements about ww2 Russia show how much you really don't know about ww2 as you seem to be confusing them with present day Russian forces.
The Russian t-34 was considered by many to be the best tank in ww2. They also had heavy tanks like the JS2 with a 120mm gun. And they had just came out with the JS3 the precursor to the t-55.
They beat the best army in the world, the Germans, and had a large seasoned well trained and experience army, with large number of equipment.
We had an upgraded m-4 which still was a tin can (nick named Zippo because it lit up every time it got struck) and just a few new pershings tanks.
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the soviets only started rolling out these superior tanks towards the end. and the reason they beat the germans was due to many factors, but not because the russian were the superior fighting force. although by '45 they were certainly getting there
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the soviets only started rolling out these superior tanks towards the end. and the reason they beat the germans was due to many factors, but not because the russian were the superior fighting force. although by '45 they were certainly getting there
I think the Germans, had they not been engaged in a 2 front war, had the oil fields in Romania, would have been able to handle the Russians better. But they weren't in that situation. By 1944 the Germans were done. That's why the Russians were arguably the most powerful military force on earth in 1944.
BTW the T-34 came out in 1940. Before that they had the KV1 both of which outclassed the Mark 3 & 4 of the time.
the T-34 was so impactive on the battlefield that the Germans came up with the Mark 5, Panther who's sloped armor was directly inspired form the t-34. The German Pather was the toerh tank thats argued to be the best of ww2, if you don't take the resources it took to make one into account or the follies it had being rushed into battle in the the battle of Kursk.
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I think the Germans, had they not been engaged in a 2 front war, had the oil fields in Romania, would have been able to handle the Russians better. But they weren't in that situation. By 1944 the Germans were done. That's way the Russians were arguably the most powerful military force on earth in 1944.
BTW the T-34 came out in 1940. Before that they had the KV1 both of which outclassed the Mark 3 & 4 of the time.
the T-34 was so impactive on the battlefield that the Germans came up with the Mark 5, Panther who's sloped armor was directly inspired form the t-34. The German Pather was the toerh tank thats argued to be the best of ww2, if you don't take the resources it took to make one into account or the follies it had being rushed into battle in the the battle of Kursk.
Man for Man the Germans were a better fighting force. The Russians had the quantity and experience of dealing with the cold winters. Many Germans literally froze to death.
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Man for Man the Germans were a better fighting force. The Russians had the quantity and experience of dealing with the cold winters. Many Germans literally froze to death.
1 book i have has the ratio at:
1 German worth 20 Russian Soldiers
1 German worth 4 American Soldiers
But what needs to be considered is that the Germans were largely on the defensive from 42 on.
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1 book i have has the ratio at:
1 German worth 20 Russian Soldiers
1 German worth 4 American Soldiers
But what needs to be considered is that the Germans were largely on the defensive from 42 on.
The German soldiers had years of training while many of the US GI's and Russians did not.
Its really a sin how many wasted lives there were on the Eastern front.
The gang raping of women as a tactic by the Russians which is coming out now is also truly disturbing.
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Good debate but lets look at the bottom line. The Germans could not out produce the Soviets or the Western Allies. The King Tiger is a great tank but its like a swiss watch vs a casio...u can mass produce a billion casio's but u have to take great care with a great swiss watch. Lets look at the US. The Chinese have a bigger millitary and the Soviets did as well..but we make everybody look like children. The things we can do..logistically, our navy etc. Its the Nco's, our ridiculously exact planning etc. We train our officers better, our troops have better baseline equipment. Are there things out there that could be done better sure, We're shit canning the M-16 family of weapons, hopefully the M-9 will go as well...but our guys are better trained and prepared. Unless ur prepared to kill everybody, nobody wins and insurgency and we're winning in Iraq. Since 1989...there has never been a more powerful force.
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The German soldiers had years of training while many of the US GI's and Russians did not.
Its really a sin how many wasted lives there were on the Eastern front.
The gang raping of women as a tactic by the Russians which is coming out now is also truly disturbing.
Yeah, i've read about it. It was the soldiers that came to mop up after the main force moved on that did most of it from what i understand.
Another thing about the German army is the way it was organized down to squads and the equipment they had. I don't remember off hand, but it was far more effective than America's army.
however, one thing the Germans didn't have was the American attitude that said, "I think I could run this company, squad, platoon, better then you" when a German commander/officer etc. died on the battlefield the German units often lost their effectiveness because they lacked th ability to think outside of their command structure while the Americans adapted and someone always took over and led.
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Had the German had two more years of production and fine tuning, maybe they could have won. WW2 comes down to soooooooo many would coulda shoulda's. There are so many turning points, weather, delays, small decisions....etc. I'm a huge fan of German armor and the SS formations, great troops and equipment but u can't overcome thousands of T-34's and millions of troops.
Ozomo i would't completely agree. They had good small unit leadership but much of the big decisions were made politically and that hamstrung their efforts.
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Good debate but lets look at the bottom line. The Germans could not out produce the Soviets or the Western Allies. The King Tiger is a great tank but its like a swiss watch vs a casio...u can mass produce a billion casio's but u have to take great care with a great swiss watch. Lets look at the US. The Chinese have a bigger millitary and the Soviets did as well..but we make everybody look like children. The things we can do..logistically, our navy etc. Its the Nco's, our ridiculously exact planning etc. We train our officers better, our troops have better baseline equipment. Are there things out there that could be done better sure, We're shit canning the M-16 family of weapons, hopefully the M-9 will go as well...but our guys are better trained and prepared. Unless ur prepared to kill everybody, nobody wins and insurgency and we're winning in Iraq. Since 1989...there has never been a more powerful force.
I agree. Economic/resources are a factor. The Mongols were a terrifically trained and disciplined army. So were the other preindustrial armies i mentioned. No one stood against them. Much like no one can stand against us now. But then again, we need to understand who we are fighting: Arabs on a flat land. 1 Us soldier is easily worth 50 arab soldiers.
Yeah, King Tiger, beautiful tank. Still haven't gone to Louisville yet. :(
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Had the German had two more years of production and fine tuning, maybe they could have won. WW2 comes down to soooooooo many would coulda shoulda's. There are so many turning points, weather, delays, small decisions....etc. I'm a huge fan of German armor and the SS formations, great troops and equipment but u can't overcome thousands of T-34's and millions of troops.
Ozomo i would't completely agree. They had good small unit leadership but much of the big decisions were made politically and that hamstrung their efforts.
I was mainly talking about small unit leadership. Platoons, squads and companies. Not Army, Corp or even divisional.
What do you think were Hitlers main mistakes?
I think some were:
Dunkirk
Kursk
Stalingrad
Ardennes
Indecision on Moscow
Opening a second front with France and England
BTW you got the book Tigers in Combat? It has unit diaries in it and about 200 pics.
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Stalingrad...u take Moscow and Leningrad and then turn when ur ready IN THE SPRING u go after the other. No Stalingrad...No Kursk. I never would have stopped at Dunkirk. No miracle at Dunkirk...no Battle of Britain (maybe) and u can launch Sea Lion when u have moscow.
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I was mainly talking about small unit leadership. Platoons, squads and companies. Not Army, Corp or even divisional.
What do you think were Hitlers main mistakes?
I think some were:
Dunkirk
Kursk
Stalingrad
Ardennes
Indecision on Moscow
Opening a second front with France and England
BTW you got the book Tigers in Combat? It has unit diaries in it and about 200 pics.
There are many books about the many failures of Hitler and how the Germans could have won WWII.
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There are many books about the many failures of Hitler and how the Germans could have won WWII.
i love reading this stuff!
bottom line is, they had the greatest most effective force out there but hitler simply tried to do too much at once. its incredible he got as far as he did, all things considered. that says alot about how great of a force they really were.
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No, if a small number of gays keep their mouths and asses STFU in orde to keep cohesion amongst the 99% of the other soldiers, they should be booted out of the military.
Unit cohesion and discipline is of the the utmost importance, not social engineering of the military fighting men and women.
His troops preferred to serve with him because they thought he was their best chance to get home alive. Both British and American officers had noted the "softness" and lack of discipline in the II Corps under Fredendall. Patton required all personnel to wear steel helmets, even physicians in the operating wards, and required his troops to wear the unpopular lace-up canvas leggings and neckties (the leggings prevented injury from scorpions, spiders and rats which would climb up under soldiers' trousers). A system of fines was introduced to ensure all personnel shaved daily and observed other uniform requirements. While these measures did not make Patton popular, they did tend to restore a sense of discipline and unit pride that may have been missing. In a play on his nickname, troops joked that it was "his guts and our blood".
The discipline Patton instilled paid off quickly. By mid-March 1943, the counter-offensive of the U.S. II Corps, along with the rest of the British 1st Army, pushed the Germans and Italians eastwards. Meanwhile the British Eighth Army, commanded by General Sir Bernard Law Montgomery, simultaneously pushed them westwards. This effectively squeezed the Germans and Italians into a smaller and smaller portion of Tunisia and out of North Africa altogether by mid-May.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton#North_African_campaign
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His troops preferred to serve with him because they thought he was their best chance to get home alive. Both British and American officers had noted the "softness" and lack of discipline in the II Corps under Fredendall. Patton required all personnel to wear steel helmets, even physicians in the operating wards, and required his troops to wear the unpopular lace-up canvas leggings and neckties (the leggings prevented injury from scorpions, spiders and rats which would climb up under soldiers' trousers). A system of fines was introduced to ensure all personnel shaved daily and observed other uniform requirements. While these measures did not make Patton popular, they did tend to restore a sense of discipline and unit pride that may have been missing. In a play on his nickname, troops joked that it was "his guts and our blood".
The discipline Patton instilled paid off quickly. By mid-March 1943, the counter-offensive of the U.S. II Corps, along with the rest of the British 1st Army, pushed the Germans and Italians eastwards. Meanwhile the British Eighth Army, commanded by General Sir Bernard Law Montgomery, simultaneously pushed them westwards. This effectively squeezed the Germans and Italians into a smaller and smaller portion of Tunisia and out of North Africa altogether by mid-May.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton#North_African_campaign
Patton is my favorite historical figure of all time. The man was truly amazing. He was a prick and a ball buster, but an amazing person all around.
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I was mainly talking about small unit leadership. Platoons, squads and companies. Not Army, Corp or even divisional.
What do you think were Hitlers main mistakes?
I think some were:
Dunkirk
Kursk
Stalingrad
Ardennes
Indecision on Moscow
Opening a second front with France and England
BTW you got the book Tigers in Combat? It has unit diaries in it and about 200 pics.
Killing and running off Ashkenazi Jews instead of enlisting their brains and skills.
Ashkenazi Jews were concentrated in Germany at the time and they are arguably the most intelligent people in the world. They score the highest on IQ tests, they have a noted history of achievement in western societies and they have won a large number of Nobel prizes. Albert Einstein was an Ashkenazi Jew.
Jewish Genius
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/jewish-genius-10855?page=all
THE LESSONS OF THE ASHKENAZIM
http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2006_06_17_thenewrepublic.html
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Patton is my favorite historical figure of all time. The man was truly amazing. He was a prick and a ball buster, but an amazing person all around.
Patton's tha man.
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The gang raping of women as a tactic by the Russians which is coming out now is also truly disturbing.
I don't understand - how was this an effective war tactic?
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Patton's tha man.
Many people dont know that he missed an Olympic medal in the pentathalon because in the pistol challenge they could not figure out if he missed the paper or put two bullets through the same hole.
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Many people dont know that he missed an Olympic medal in the pentathalon because in the pistol challenge they could not figure out if he missed the paper or put two bullets through the same hole.
That's cool. A modern day Robin Hood. :)
He'd probably knock my teeth out for comparing him to a man in green tights. ;D
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I don't understand - how was this an effective war tactic?
It was not a tactic, it was just something those animals did as a practice and method towards the women of wherever they went.
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Killing and running off Ashkenazi Jews instead of enlisting their brains and skills.
Ashkenazi Jews were concentrated in Germany at the time and they are arguably the most intelligent people in the world. They score the highest on IQ tests, they have a noted history of achievement in western societies and they have won a large number of Nobel prizes. Albert Einstein was an Ashkenazi Jew.
Jewish Genius
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/jewish-genius-10855?page=all
THE LESSONS OF THE ASHKENAZIM
http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2006_06_17_thenewrepublic.html
Great point! Didn't know that
Also, not liberating the Ukrainians but instead oppressing them when they conquered Ukraine
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Not surprising.
Just because he's a Democrat doesn't mean he's socially liberal.
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In terms of who was best in what era, let's not forget the Spartans. Mental toughness, the training since they are 7 yrs old, being in perfect shape and lack of fear (or lack of acceptance of fear or weakness). All things being equal , if they had all the tech we had, they would wipe the floor with us. Period.
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Lets not forget the Spartans. Mental toughness, the training since they are 7 yrs old, being in perfect shape and lack of fear (or lack of acceptance of fear or weakness). All things being equal , if they had all the tech we had, they would wipe the floor with us. Period.
Whatever policy is best for our soldiers doing the job that is required of them is what i favor.
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Whatever policy is best for our soldiers doing the job that is required of them is what i favor.
Actually, I meant quote who was the best...sorry
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Not allowing people to be open about their homosexuality seems like a stupid move.
The military DQ's itself from recruiting competent people but are openly gay.
There are several countries where being gay is not a problem in the military, and there is no massive gay gangbangs either.
If a gay person wants to serve his country, why would he be less dedicated to that and more dedicated to shagging than any other soldier?
This may be a little hard to digest, but fag couples have a higher average salary than traditional couples.
They are also generally more successful in their careers than the rest.
Fags don't have kids as often as normal guys, so they're probably ideal in many ways for the military.
As long as they don't act like Liberace.
But those gays - doubt they are big fans of serving in the Military.
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Not allowing people to be open about their homosexuality seems like a stupid move.
The military DQ's itself from recruiting competent people but are openly gay.
There are several countries where being gay is not a problem in the military, and there is no massive gay gangbangs either.
If a gay person wants to serve his country, why would he be less dedicated to that and more dedicated to shagging than any other soldier?
This may be a little hard to digest, but fag couples have a higher average salary than traditional couples.
They are also generally more successful in their careers than the rest.
Fags don't have kids as often as normal guys, so they're probably ideal in many ways for the military.
As long as they don't act like Liberace.
But those gays - doubt they are big fans of serving in the Military.
How exactly would they act like Liberace? By lying down in a box and decomposing??
;D
That probably won't seem as funny in the morning as it does at 3:58 AM. I'm going back to bed now!!
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How exactly would they act like Liberace? By lying down in a box and decomposing??
;D
That probably won't seem as funny in the morning as it does at 3:58 AM. I'm going back to bed now!!
Trust me, it does.8)
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It is funny how any issue of homosexuality always seems to lose traction with bigots having to fallin back to the "gay sex... gay sex... the sex between gays"... mantra when their whining has been dismissed. As if "gay sex" is the only thing about homosexuality and not the fact that the majority of gay people's lives are spent not even having "gay sex".
It is funny how religious idiots and conservatives (is there a difference) talk about "gay sex" and think about it more than homosexuals do.
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Not allowing people to be open about their homosexuality seems like a stupid move.
The military DQ's itself from recruiting competent people but are openly gay.
There are several countries where being gay is not a problem in the military, and there is no massive gay gangbangs either.
If a gay person wants to serve his country, why would he be less dedicated to that and more dedicated to shagging than any other soldier?
This may be a little hard to digest, but fag couples have a higher average salary than traditional couples.
They are also generally more successful in their careers than the rest.
Fags don't have kids as often as normal guys, so they're probably ideal in many ways for the military.
As long as they don't act like Liberace.
But those gays - doubt they are big fans of serving in the Military.
The biggest complaint the opposition to gays in the military cite is that it would affect moral and unit cohesion.....which some simple growing up would cure.
It's similar to the BS that was given for integration back in the 50's