Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: PinkPanthar on November 23, 2008, 06:58:04 AM
-
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey All.
First off, I know this subject has been brought up in various forms and shades of grey in not so specific THREADS but I thought it deserved to be narrowed down. And simply for my own understanding I was MORE than curious.
What is the IMPORTANCE of HCG in HRT?
I know it is multiple but what could you fellows offer from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE>?
Here is what most brings up my concerns. Testosterone ALONE has always everytime WIHTOUT FAIL killed my libido. Period. I have messaged around multiple boards and while this is definately an oddity it is know unprecadented. Has TEST killed anyone elses libido? HAs HCG helped this little problem out? Honestly I have low test (221 as of last time checked) and all the negative symptoms (inluding poor libido) BUT I can not picture myself living with NO LIBIDO for the rest of my existence. If I went on HRT it would be TEST and HCG, would the HCG help this horrible libido problem though.
Ok well thanks. While I did make this post mostly about HCG and libido I do also have an interest in its other properties, as reported by personal expereience. Thank you a ton guys. Very glad I fell upon this great little forum.
+++PinkPanthar+++
P.S. Is there anyone else out there whom testosterone neber ceases to KILL their LIBIDO? I can't be the only one.
-
Yes I get that also. I still have some libido but it is blunted. My prostate is also the size of a grapefruit, that cant be helping. I have noticed lower doseages of test like 400-500 per week seem to have less effect on the libido.
-
How come test RAISES soo many persons libido but others the opposite? I wish it raised mine...
-
If I went on HRT it would be TEST and HCG, would the HCG help this horrible libido problem though.
Maybe. I would try a little DHEA too. Dr John Crisler says DHEA is more important than Test for libido (!).
-
Alot of people go deficient in DHEA when using exogenous test
-
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey All.
First off, I know this subject has been brought up in various forms and shades of grey in not so specific THREADS but I thought it deserved to be narrowed down. And simply for my own understanding I was MORE than curious.
What is the IMPORTANCE of HCG in HRT?
I know it is multiple but what could you fellows offer from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE>?
Here is what most brings up my concerns. Testosterone ALONE has always everytime WIHTOUT FAIL killed my libido. Period. I have messaged around multiple boards and while this is definately an oddity it is know unprecadented. Has TEST killed anyone elses libido? HAs HCG helped this little problem out? Honestly I have low test (221 as of last time checked) and all the negative symptoms (inluding poor libido) BUT I can not picture myself living with NO LIBIDO for the rest of my existence. If I went on HRT it would be TEST and HCG, would the HCG help this horrible libido problem though.
Ok well thanks. While I did make this post mostly about HCG and libido I do also have an interest in its other properties, as reported by personal expereience. Thank you a ton guys. Very glad I fell upon this great little forum.
+++PinkPanthar+++
P.S. Is there anyone else out there whom testosterone neber ceases to KILL their LIBIDO? I can't be the only one.
Do a search.
There are so many threads pertaining to HCG and PCT in general that I'm not going to waste any more.
Read on your own.
DIV
-
Maybe. I would try a little DHEA too. Dr John Crisler says DHEA is more important than Test for libido (!).
This is interesting as I have read stuff from Dr John C. he runs a clinic for HRT if I remember and is a BB himself. One of the top guys on AAS use and how it interacts with the whole body.
DHEA is very easy to get at vitamin stores and is not very expensive. I will give it a try at 50mg ED and see what happens.
-
How come test RAISES soo many persons libido but others the opposite? I wish it raised mine...
Imo, it does and it doesn't. Depends on how you define "libido." If you mean sexual aggression, increased interest like having a good long stare at an ass that you probably wouldn't stare too long at normally, an even greater fascination with tits, then yes psychological libido is up.
But if you mean full nuts, feeling the need to cum, then no my physical libido was down. Erections were ok, and morning erections were more frequent, but physical need was suppressed. HCG definitely sorted it out tho. You may need to look into the cause of your hypogonadism however. I'd theorize that if your T is low because of low pituitary output, then HCG will have you sporting wood all day. If the problem is your nuts then the HCG may not have anything to act upon so it would be ineffective. I'm just guessing.
At any rate, HCG makes me horny.
-
depends on how much your taking. if you have no sex drive, chances either your test is fake, or you are not producing and leutinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone. if the test is real, you will wantto go on hcg. and you can also do a little bit of winstrol o get your lh and fsh back up. you really need to go on hrt instead of doing it yourself. but on hrt you probably wont be prescribed more than 400 mgs of tet per week. i am stoked at 200 mg every 7 days. hope this helps.
-
Maybe. I would try a little DHEA too. Dr John Crisler says DHEA is more important than Test for libido (!).
really ?
very interesting
-
At any rate, HCG makes me horny.
Same with me. I feel like I have a need to masterbate 4-5 times a day.
-
Same with me. I feel like I have a need to masterbate 4-5 times a day.
Haha, yep. It's TOO effective if you're not careful. Can't get any work done at all! ;D
-
everytime i go to the bathroom or i get naked or my penis brushes against anything, i have the urge to masterbate. and im on deca with no caber. actually at the moment im running deca to test at a ratio of about 3=1 (more deca than test)... hornier than ive ever been.
-
Maybe. I would try a little DHEA too. Dr John Crisler says DHEA is more important than Test for libido (!).
bro !
here is what Dr Crisler wrote on HCG:
It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate -*test*-('")icular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same
I always injected 2500 IU twice a week, for 2 week after each cycle !!! :o :o :o
my balls must be fucked up
-
everytime i go to the bathroom or i get naked or my penis brushes against anything, i have the urge to masterbate. and im on deca with no caber. actually at the moment im running deca to test at a ratio of about 3=1 (more deca than test)... hornier than ive ever been.
Sounds normal for an 18 yo,maybe your gear is fake? ???
-
Sounds normal for an 18 yo,maybe your gear is fake? ???
I think the horniest I ever was was at 12-13 years old
It was fucking crazy
-
I think the horniest I ever was was at 12-13 years old
It was fucking crazy
Fun times ;D
-
Yeah I rember those days too a few times jerked off 5 times in a day
-
So... anybody ever stack HCG with caber? :P
-
So... anybody ever stack HCG with caber? :P
Yes, because I run caber when on deca, and I always run HCG when on cycle.
-
I hate you HORNY dudes. As soon as I get my HRT though I will be up with ya (hopefully)
-
Maybe. I would try a little DHEA too. Dr John Crisler says DHEA is more important than Test for libido (!).
After being on DHEA for about 2 weeks now, I can say this is definitly true !!
my nuts were back to normal but not my usual high libido, it worried me so I started taking DHEA when I read your post and the strong libido is definitly back !!! 8)
-
Maybe. I would try a little DHEA too. Dr John Crisler says DHEA is more important than Test for libido (!).
I remember reading a study (or maybe an article) about how resistance trained males were almost always tested low on DHEA and that supplementation would definitely help. Zinc deficiency also seems to be an issue as well.
-
I have also started supplementing DHEA after reading Van's post. Its been about 2 weeks so far at 50mg ED. Have noticed my sex drive increasing a bit though. Not sure if it is from other factors also though, I have dropped my test dose to about 600mg EW thats all Im taking, was taking clen and letro at 120mcg ED and 1mg ED letro respectively. Have noticed less energy, probally the deletion of the clen from the program.
-
I have also started supplementing DHEA after reading Van's post. Its been about 2 weeks so far at 50mg ED. Have noticed my sex drive increasing a bit though. Not sure if it is from other factors also though, I have dropped my test dose to about 600mg EW thats all Im taking, was taking clen and letro at 120mcg ED and 1mg ED letro respectively. Have noticed less energy, probally the deletion of the clen from the program.
maybe the DHEA is too low bro, I am taking 2 100mg pills a day
-
maybe the DHEA is too low bro, I am taking 2 100mg pills a day
Really? Yeah could be, I guess 50 mg is a conservative dose. I think i will double it ;D
-
if you decide to get too liberal with the dhea i sure hope you are using a serm or any kind of weak anti e
-
if you decide to get too liberal with the dhea i sure hope you are using a serm or any kind of weak anti e
why ?
at 200mg I don't feel I would need an anti e
-
if you decide to get too liberal with the dhea i sure hope you are using a serm or any kind of weak anti e
Yes it appears in the info i have on it that DHEA will increase test and therefore aromatase. Im really sceptical about this though and if it does i would think the increase would be small.
So no anti-E here right now also on about 600mg test e a week. Will see how things go.
-
here is what Dr Crisler wrote on HCG:
It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate -*test*-('")icular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same
I always injected 2500 IU twice a week, for 2 week after each cycle !!! :o :o :o
my balls must be fucked up
Stavios, your nuts might be in permanent decline. :-\
I'd go lower than the doctor recommends, probably 300IU or so every three to four days.
Any more than that and you're simply oversaturating the HPTA and risking estrogen rebound.
You need to keep the frequency at three to five days in between injections as well.
DIV
-
Stavios, your nuts might be in permanent decline. :-\
I'd go lower than the doctor recommends, probably 300IU or so every three to four days.
Any more than that and you're simply oversaturating the HPTA and risking estrogen rebound.
You need to keep the frequency at three to five days in between injections as well.
DIV
500iu e3d is the optimal dose, thats not risking anything at all. and there isnt any negatives to high estrogen other than water retentionand a slight shift in whereyour body stores fat (not how much, but just where)..other than that estrogen is a great thing to have.
-
500iu e3d is the optimal dose, thats not risking anything at all. and there isnt any negatives to high estrogen other than water retentionand a slight shift in whereyour body stores fat (not how much, but just where)..other than that estrogen is a great thing to have.
Are you seriously arguing with me?
Have you not learned?
You have neither the experience nor rep to counter me in any way, even in terms of supplements.
When you actually start using AAS, let us know..........but keep your advice to yourself.
I'm about to make a "Tbombz" sticky advising all newbies to disregard your comments.
Experience is everything, google is nothing.
The next time there is a Waxy Maize giveaway, I'll be sure to let you know! ;D
DIV
-
Stavios, your nuts might be in permanent decline. :-\
I'd go lower than the doctor recommends, probably 300IU or so every three to four days.
Any more than that and you're simply oversaturating the HPTA and risking estrogen rebound.
You need to keep the frequency at three to five days in between injections as well.
DIV
I don't use any HCG right now, last time I used it was after my cycle in august.
my balls seem fine now, thanks god !! I wasn't even sure I still had balls back in july ;D
now I'll do 250 IU 2 times a week of HCG during every cycle
-
Are you seriously arguing with me?
Have you not learned?
You have neither the experience nor rep to counter me in any way, even in terms of supplements.
When you actually start using AAS, let us know..........but keep your advice to yourself.
I'm about to make a "Tbombz" sticky advising all newbies to disregard your comments.
Experience is everything, google is nothing.
The next time there is a Waxy Maize giveaway, I'll be sure to let you know! ;D
DIV
500iu e3d is common knowledge.
-
if you wish to permanently fuck up your nuts sure
-
if you wish to permanently fuck up your nuts sure
hi division ;)
-
500iu e3d is common knowledge.
There is no real science or recommended dose for this. I have heard 500IU E3D protocol but some say to try and use a bit less as not to desensitize the LH receptors, because the natural dose is quite low. You do not want to desensitize the LH receptors (if you even can is also open to debate) because when its time to return to homeostasis the small natural LH output that starts to occur in time will not be enough to trigger a response or have much effect. This will prolong the period where your body is not producing any LH-test. When someone thought this theory up they went with 500 IU cause it seemed like a reasonable but not too large a dose. They also took into consideration HCG's half life.
No real facts on this therapy, its kind of trial, error and the best logic you can come up with.
-
There is no real science or recommended dose for this. I have heard 500IU E3D protocol but some say to try and use a bit less as not to desensitize the LH receptors, because the natural dose is quite low. You do not want to desensitize the LH receptors (if you even can is also open to debate) because when its time to return to homeostasis the small natural LH output that starts to occur in time will not be enough to trigger a response or have much effect. This will prolong the period where your body is not producing any LH-test. When someone thought this theory up they went with 500 IU cause it seemed like a reasonable but not too large a dose. They also took into consideration HCG's half life.
No real facts on this therapy, its kind of trial, error and the best logic you can come up with.
I agree. I always lean toward starting out low and see if you can get away with less. 250ius pretty well for me for a while but I switched back to 500ius because I felt it kept me more regulated.
-
I have nothing to do with div candi...
There are loads of studies claiming that anything over 500iu will have serious consequences on your LH receptors in the testes...
I'm on 500iu ew, injection 250iu mon and thurs and my balls are just as full as when I'm off cycle...
p.s while I'm only on my first year of medicinal chemistry, this is the year where I have fysiology where 30% of the litterature is about the HPTA
-
I have nothing to do with div candi...
There are loads of studies claiming that anything over 500iu will have serious consequences on your LH receptors in the testes...
I'm on 500iu ew, injection 250iu mon and thurs and my balls are just as full as when I'm off cycle...
p.s while I'm only on my first year of medicinal chemistry, this is the year where I have fysiology where 30% of the litterature is about the HPTA
very nice, good luck with school !
-
I have nothing to do with div candi...
There are loads of studies claiming that anything over 500iu will have serious consequences on your LH receptors in the testes...
I'm on 500iu ew, injection 250iu mon and thurs and my balls are just as full as when I'm off cycle...
p.s while I'm only on my first year of medicinal chemistry, this is the year where I have fysiology where 30% of the litterature is about the HPTA
Post those studies that show 500iu of HCG will cause desensitization! I dont believe it for one second. First off I personally run 500 IU e3d, secondly I have posted the long term studies on this board, and most of all Dr. John Crisler recommends 1000iu of HCG a week, just under a different dosing protocol. 500iu was not just a made up number, it was researched and proven to be the ideal amount to keep the testes from atrophy.
-
500iu e3d is the optimal dose, thats not risking anything at all. and there isnt any negatives to high estrogen other than water retentionand a slight shift in whereyour body stores fat (not how much, but just where)..other than that estrogen is a great thing to have.
Do some more research on this D! There are some potential problems in men having high estrogen.
-
Do some more research on this D! There are some potential problems in men having high estrogen.
Yea, something with prostate being enlarged and all that...not fun.
-
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595/F4
And yes you should ALWAYS keep your estrogen within the recommended range for males, because anything over that will fuck you up in the long run...
If you get regular bloodwork done and that way can keep check with your estrogen levels try to keep em right in the middle of the range for men...
low range fucks up your joins and sex drive, and has other negative effects...
High range equals, like you said, prostate problems, water retention problems, fat storage, gyno, BP problems all stuff you don't want, and for what? a few extra lbs on the bar that aint gonna help you shit in the long run
edit: if you feel 500iu is working good for you then keep doing it, I'm not gonna be the one to stop you, but keeping the dose as low as possible is the best... Ofcourse it all depends on the individual...
Ideally we should have a pill equal to the birth control pills that women have, just with HCG and HMG instead, would be the perfect oncycle/pct pill
-
it can also cause diabetes, heart disease, and certain cancers.
-
been following this thread cos had the same no libido while on test I was on 800 mgs of test droped test to 500mgs
added 500iu of hcg 3 times a week and 100dhea ed and boy I`m waking up with wood everyday I feel 18 again
thanks guys you know your shit much respect ;D
-
been following this thread cos had the same no libido while on test I was on 800 mgs of test droped test to 500mgs
added 500iu of hcg 3 times a week and 100dhea ed and boy I`m waking up with wood everyday I feel 18 again
thanks guys you know your shit much respect ;D
thats fuckin great man im glad to hear your good news ! :)
-
been following this thread cos had the same no libido while on test I was on 800 mgs of test droped test to 500mgs
added 500iu of hcg 3 times a week and 100dhea ed and boy I`m waking up with wood everyday I feel 18 again
thanks guys you know your shit much respect ;D
Good news bro, glad the board could help.
-
You guys are so lucky..we cant even buy basic dhea here.. :(
Cant even go onto bb.com and get it..
-
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/90/5/2595/F4
And yes you should ALWAYS keep your estrogen within the recommended range for males, because anything over that will fuck you up in the long run...
low range fucks up your joins and sex drive, and has other negative effects...
High range equals, like you said, prostate problems, water retention problems, fat storage, gyno, BP problems all stuff you don't want, and for what? a few extra lbs on the bar that aint gonna help you shit in the long run
it doesnt cause fat storeage, and it does help you gain muscle quicker and retain muscle better while in a deficit.
-
why are you quoting me with stuff I havn't said?
-
iu just messed the quote function up, i didnt misquote you, look at it again.. my post is underneath yours inside a seperate quote box
-
been following this thread cos had the same no libido while on test I was on 800 mgs of test droped test to 500mgs
added 500iu of hcg 3 times a week and 100dhea ed and boy I`m waking up with wood everyday I feel 18 again
thanks guys you know your shit much respect ;D
That's awesome!!! I will give the same thing a shot. Also good call on lowering the TEST from 800 to 500 if you are having libido issues. MORE TEST usually does NOT = more libido... from what I hear.
BTW - outta curiosity what ester of TEST are you running? People don't regularly like to admit it but different ESTERS can have different effects on libido. Sustanon VS Cypionate can be two very different stories.
-
That's awesome!!! I will give the same thing a shot. Also good call on lowering the TEST from 800 to 500 if you are having libido issues. MORE TEST usually does NOT = more libido... from what I hear.
BTW - outta curiosity what ester of TEST are you running? People don't regularly like to admit it but different ESTERS can have different effects on libido. Sustanon VS Cypionate can be two very different stories.
Totally agree with this, Sus gets my libido up but Enan or Cyp a the same dose do nothing at all, possibly even reduce it.
-
Ever shot t-PROP rich?
-
That's awesome!!! I will give the same thing a shot. Also good call on lowering the TEST from 800 to 500 if you are having libido issues. MORE TEST usually does NOT = more libido... from what I hear.
BTW - outta curiosity what ester of TEST are you running? People don't regularly like to admit it but different ESTERS can have different effects on libido. Sustanon VS Cypionate can be two very different stories.
test enath but now my nipples hurt which means I have to ad letro cos 20mgs of nolvadex is not doing a thing
and that will be the end of the libido again you can`t win in this game always got to be fighting something any input will be
appreciated master gurus
-
test enath but now my nipples hurt which means I have to ad letro cos 20mgs of nolvadex is not doing a thing
and that will be the end of the libido again you can`t win in this game always got to be fighting something any input will be
appreciated master gurus
I would up the nolva to 40 or 60 (assuming you're not running deca) and add a less extreme AI like Arimidex (1mg ed for awhile, maybe 10 days, then start tapering down) unless you've got gyno pebbles in which case I guess you have to reach for the letro. Drink a shitload of water and put a large head of brocolli through a juicer twice a day for awhile (or supplement indole-3-carbinol) to flush the existing estrogen out of your system in a hurry. HCG dosed at 500 e3d for libido and testicular health.
I am NOT a guru. I do more reading and learning than advising on this board, but that's my $.02.
-
test enath but now my nipples hurt which means I have to ad letro cos 20mgs of nolvadex is not doing a thing
and that will be the end of the libido again you can`t win in this game always got to be fighting something any input will be
appreciated master gurus
you dont have to add letro you can add adex or atd..both of which are anti aromatase but weaker than letro. and you dont necessarily have to run any serm or ai anyway. most bb get gyno surgery some time or another. alot of guys take the gyno as it comes and dont worry cuz they are more worried about gaining the muscle, and they know theyll get the surgery (or run letro pre contest sometime or pgcl into the gyno or somethin similar).
-
If you want to remain healthy you better run something during cycles to keep estrogen down to a normal level.
-
If you want to remain healthy you better run something during cycles to keep estrogen down to a normal level.
and in that case youd definitely stick to a SERM, not an AI, cuz of the adverse cholestrol effects of AI
-
Not talking cholesterol here Dizzle. Talking all the other problems associated with high estrogen in men. Much more dangerous problems than cholesterol. Watch what you put in your mouth and your cholesterol will be fine when running an AI!
-
i knew you meant high estrogen... even with great diet AI still adversely effect cholestrol..and cholestrol is a tricky thing anyway... most people think dietary fat and dietary cholestrol are what cause poor serm choletrol levels but they dont effect it at all..in fact they might even improve serum cholestrl levels.. in people with already poor serum cholestrol, then dietary fat and cholestrol becomes a problem. but in healthy individuals, its actually simple sugars and insulin spiking processed carbs that most greatly asttribute to poor cholestrol numbers. that, and simple over eating.
anyho, got of on a tangent.... looking for great health is cool. and in that czase. serm > ai... but ee more so= Natural > steroids user (even if its only low dose test)