Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 03:09:52 AM

Title: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 03:09:52 AM
He had been around for a while, was by no means small, a mid-level pro 2nd/3rd tier, claimed to be natural. He seemed to have maxed out.   Next thing we know, he blows up into the monster on the right, and takes the big one.

Besides the obvious replies of up the dosage, slin, gh, wtf did this guy do to progress from very big to huge?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4852/ronniecomparoyz2.jpg
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: El_Pajero on November 25, 2008, 03:13:03 AM
maybe its good stuff.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: El_Pajero on November 25, 2008, 03:14:58 AM
maybe he asked a better trainingschedule on getbig
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 03:16:21 AM
Can you see it now?


Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: El_Pajero on November 25, 2008, 03:17:34 AM
Can you see it now?

Are you trying to tell us something "figo"?
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 03:25:14 AM
At an advanced level to get your back, arms, and especially legs up so much is incredible.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 03:27:11 AM
Are you trying to tell us something "figo"?

"El_Pajero", are you referring to the original post, or me asking if pic is visible? Bit vague your question...
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: affeman on November 25, 2008, 03:28:48 AM
At an advanced level to get your back, arms, and especially legs up so much is incredible.

The "explosion" came very late, when he started to work with Chad Nicholls. I really guess that Coleman knew little about drugs till the Mid-90s, Teh Chad was the first to put him on a great stack and the rest is history. ;)
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Get Rowdy on November 25, 2008, 03:39:21 AM
Crazy.  Even his ankles got bigger.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 03:40:53 AM
I'm aware of Chad working with him, just unbelievable how he seemed maxed out until he showed his true potential and response to aas.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: bigdumbbell on November 25, 2008, 03:44:54 AM
the same can happen with brandon
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 06:22:40 AM
Curry?
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: hazbin on November 25, 2008, 09:29:10 AM
Ronnie is definately a guy that i think could have been clean when he turned pro.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Smokincrazy on November 25, 2008, 10:49:42 AM
Ronnie is definately a guy that i think could have been clean when he turned pro.
No doubt.  Incredible genetics
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: flagadajones on November 25, 2008, 12:33:41 PM
(http://www.steroidportal.com/img-p/Genitropin01.jpg)
(http://www.steroidportal.com/img-p/Genitropin02.jpg)
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 12:48:57 PM
Ronnie is definately a guy that i think could have been clean when he turned pro.

Thats what I was getting at, just waiting to see if anyone shared the view.
It is the natural thing to think, isnt it? (No pun intended) Maybe the guy really was a nattie when he turned pro.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: hazbin on November 25, 2008, 12:54:16 PM
Thats what I was getting at, just waiting to see if anyone shared the view.
It is the natural thing to think, isnt it? (No pun intended) Maybe the guy really was a nattie when he turned pro.

Ronnie had a different look to his muscle when he turned pro. McGough used to talk about it until about 96 when he broke through and started winning smaller shows. after that point he exploded in size and lost that extreme sharpness. still amazing after that, but looked the same as the other pros, only bigger.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: _bruce_ on November 25, 2008, 12:55:54 PM
Peak Contraction
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: JasonH on November 25, 2008, 12:57:43 PM
The second pic looks a tad photoshopped.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 01:00:14 PM
The second pic looks a tad photoshopped.

From Flex I think. I believe the background has been changed.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 25, 2008, 01:02:31 PM
Ronnie had a different look to his muscle when he turned pro. McGough used to talk about it until about 96 when he broke through and started winning smaller shows. after that point he exploded in size and lost that extreme sharpness. still amazing after that, but looked the same as the other pros, only bigger.

For sure, his shape changed a great deal, and he did lose detail.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: turnerg31 on November 25, 2008, 02:33:32 PM
Definitely agree that he lost some detail at the expense of gaining all that mass. I always thought that the mass monsters suffered more by loosing the detail then they really gained by coming in close to 300 lbs.  I definitely thought Ronnie reached a turning point with the size, where he started sacrificing detail.  I always thought he would be better off returning to that halfway point (for lack of a better phrase) between razor like sharpness and freaky mass.  I think he would be hard to beat at that condition. He's got the potential to posses the best of both worlds.  The size/mass as well as the sharpness and symmetry.

Pat
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: jtsunami on November 25, 2008, 02:56:59 PM
this is disgusting, the first picture is bodybuilding, the second is just a mess of muscle and shit, disgusting barf
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: The GodFather on November 25, 2008, 03:05:42 PM
Livin the Dream Baby. :'(
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Bobby on November 25, 2008, 03:12:39 PM
The second pic looks a tad photoshopped.

a tad?

;D
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: bigguns23 on November 25, 2008, 05:13:16 PM
a tad?

;D

Not really. Grand prix in 2004 Ron was 303.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: QuakerOats on November 25, 2008, 05:13:42 PM
Not really. Grand prix in 2004 Ron was 303.
no he wasn't.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 25, 2008, 05:16:37 PM
i think he just worked out his carb timing.  no reason to believe he's not natural to this day.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: swilkins1984 on November 25, 2008, 05:26:56 PM
Simple. He activated his dormant muscle fibers with Aplodan (c).
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: HTexan on November 25, 2008, 05:28:19 PM
More drugs?
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: hipolito mejia on November 25, 2008, 05:35:58 PM
More drugs?

More,more, drugs because his calves woudnt respond ...but his upper body was Mr.O caliber from the start.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: bigguns23 on November 25, 2008, 05:47:17 PM
no he wasn't.


ummmmmmmmm YES HE WAS there Dave.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: THEBOSS on November 25, 2008, 08:08:05 PM
Simple. He activated his dormant muscle fibers with Aplodan (c).
:D  :D ;D ;D ;) ;) Muscle tech does it again ! 330 % bigger in just 10 days !
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: SAMSON123 on November 25, 2008, 08:42:09 PM
He had been around for a while, was by no means small, a mid-level pro 2nd/3rd tier, claimed to be natural. He seemed to have maxed out.   Next thing we know, he blows up into the monster on the right, and takes the big one.

Besides the obvious replies of up the dosage, slin, gh, wtf did this guy do to progress from very big to huge?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4852/ronniecomparoyz2.jpg

Louisiana Gumbo, Jambalya, Creole and Cajon cooking....WORKS WONDERS.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Sherief Shalaby on November 25, 2008, 10:36:50 PM
Can you see it now?




this pic is a good proof tht you can't improve a naturally bad calve.. Still I believe his arms in the 2004 pic have been photoshoped..
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: webcake on November 25, 2008, 10:39:54 PM
What was ronnie at the '04 Olympia?

Around 300lbs wasn't he?
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: TechnoViking on November 25, 2008, 11:22:38 PM
Ronnie is definately a guy that i think could have been clean when he turned pro.

That makes sense...A Texas cop who has seen where about every single new rec/drug originated from decided to get into the most corrupt drug infested "sport" and not only turn pro but do so naturally...

Texas cops were fucking around with XTC before 99.9% of America knew what the fuck XTC was...And TExas football was taken so seriously well back into the late 70's that alumni have been killed over it...
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Figo on November 26, 2008, 03:07:58 AM
That makes sense...A Texas cop who has seen where about every single new rec/drug originated from decided to get into the most corrupt drug infested "sport" and not only turn pro but do so naturally...

Texas cops were fucking around with XTC before 99.9% of America knew what the fuck XTC was...And TExas football was taken so seriously well back into the late 70's that alumni have been killed over it...

So drug testing aint big in Texas?
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Bear on November 26, 2008, 03:32:03 AM
no he wasn't.

You are gay.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Swedish Viking on November 26, 2008, 03:44:06 AM
I don't know about you guys, but I'm thinkin drop sets.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on November 26, 2008, 04:30:44 AM
That makes sense...A Texas cop who has seen where about every single new rec/drug originated from decided to get into the most corrupt drug infested "sport" and not only turn pro but do so naturally...

Texas cops were fucking around with XTC before 99.9% of America knew what the fuck XTC was...And TExas football was taken so seriously well back into the late 70's that alumni have been killed over it...

"I've never even smoked marijuana" - Ronnie in Flex mag back in the day  :D

He wasn't natural when he won the World Champs. But even some "experts" claim he was, such as On_Swole on here. If Disgusted thinks so I'd reconsider though.  :D
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: njflex on November 26, 2008, 07:36:38 AM
"I've never even smoked marijuana" - Ronnie in Flex mag back in the day  :D

He wasn't natural when he won the World Champs. But even some "experts" claim he was, such as On_Swole on here. If Disgusted thinks so I'd reconsider though.  :D
see your point its not like big ron when he turned pro was being touted as natural as with the other ron coleman who was musc developments natural poster boy with the other guys.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Reign Down on November 26, 2008, 07:45:47 AM
Not really. Grand prix in 2004 Ron was 303.


of course he was  ::)
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on November 26, 2008, 07:57:00 AM
see your point its not like big ron when he turned pro was being touted as natural as with the other ron coleman who was musc developments natural poster boy with the other guys.

Well, actually he was touted as a natural. Like the quote I put there shows. Many "experts" such as Dante Doggcrapp believe he really was natural, and also competed natural the first few years as a pro. They claim he started juicing in about 95-96. I'm pretty sure I've seen Milos say this also. I think it's BS of course.

The only expert who never tries to fool you on these boards is Disgusted IMO. So like I said if he believes it I will reconsider.  :D
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: LASTREP72 on November 26, 2008, 09:42:38 AM
He had been around for a while, was by no means small, a mid-level pro 2nd/3rd tier, claimed to be natural. He seemed to have maxed out.   Next thing we know, he blows up into the monster on the right, and takes the big one.

Besides the obvious replies of up the dosage, slin, gh, wtf did this guy do to progress from very big to huge?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4852/ronniecomparoyz2.jpg
he waited late in the game to really hit the gear hard and heavy - he was prolly doing very little when he got his card. Lets not forget he got some the best genetic around - ever see the pick of him at 14 - he was ripped as hell then!!
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Howard on November 26, 2008, 09:48:43 AM
he waited late in the game to really hit the gear hard and heavy - he was prolly doing very little when he got his card. Lets not forget he got some the best genetic around - ever see the pick of him at 14 - he was ripped as hell then!!
Exactly! I was at the NPC nationals in '91, and he was the only top hvy wt that was willing to take the urine drug test to be on the world team. He didn't win the nationals to turn pro,he didn't get first that night either. Ok,  he went and won the IFBB Worlds and passed the urine test there as well. Hard to say if he was 100% clean or not at the time. BUT, as you pointed out he obviously had to wait until he was well into his pro career to hit the juice hard.
He went from a ripped  217 when he won he worlds to a ripped 287, 10 years later. That is 70, count 'em SEVENTY lbs of additional muscle on an already impressive world amatuer champ physique!
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: England_1 on November 26, 2008, 09:48:52 AM
You guys are completely full of shit.

But then again you probably think college football players don't juice. Ronnie was a linebacker and was likely very familiar with the juice long before he started his BB career.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Playboy on November 26, 2008, 11:47:01 AM
The fact that he gained mass is irrelevant. He won the biggest title in bbdg 8 years in a row. People should not be carving him or knit picking at his physique.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: bigguns23 on November 26, 2008, 03:55:45 PM

of course he was  ::)

your are right, he was 230 pounds. ::) fuck what do I know.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: rccs on November 26, 2008, 06:15:23 PM
He had been around for a while, was by no means small, a mid-level pro 2nd/3rd tier, claimed to be natural. He seemed to have maxed out.   Next thing we know, he blows up into the monster on the right, and takes the big one.

Besides the obvious replies of up the dosage, slin, gh, wtf did this guy do to progress from very big to huge?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4852/ronniecomparoyz2.jpg

Doses extremas de hormana de crescimento e treinos pesados e intensos. Penso que a grande vantajem dele foi usar a sua força para treinar pesado e construir, assim, músculos maiores e mais "duráveis" do que os outros culturistas que apenas "refinavam" os músculos, com treinos leves e pouco intensos...
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Figo on November 27, 2008, 02:28:39 AM
He went from a ripped  217 when he won he worlds to a ripped 287, 10 years later. That is 70, count 'em SEVENTY lbs of additional muscle on an already impressive world amatuer champ physique!

Thats the astonishing thing. To improve so much so late into career, on an already impressive physique.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Wiggs on November 27, 2008, 02:37:15 AM
Thats the astonishing thing. To improve so much so late into career, on an already impressive physique.

The only logical answer is that Ronnie hadn't juiced much.  This would explain his dramatic improvements from 98-03.  It is well known that "allegedly" Ronnie was a legit natural when he won the team universe which turned him pro.  He made improvements but not great improvements up until 97.  He then go with the Chad and exploded.  Is it a coincidence that he got with a "guru" and blew up?  I think pre Chad Ronnie was on very little and like he said in the steriod video that so poorly hid the ID of the pros, he only used when doing a show.

After Chad all that changed.  Bottom line is there is no other way to explain it unless there was some new drug discovered and only Ronnie has access to it ::)
Face it Ronnie was barely using.  Oh yeah and slin...this was the main ingredient for his massive growth.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: hipolito mejia on November 27, 2008, 06:34:33 AM


Besides the obvious replies of up the dosage, slin, gh, wtf did this guy do to progress from very big to huge?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4852/ronniecomparoyz2.jpg

Besides that? Thats not enough to you?

Some people think that drugs are a joke.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: QuakerOats on November 27, 2008, 07:53:59 AM

ummmmmmmmm YES HE WAS there Dave.
any proof? picture of him standing on a scale with it reading 303 maybe?
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: YoungBlood on November 27, 2008, 08:37:24 AM
They claim he started juicing in about 95-96. I'm pretty sure I've seen Milos say this also. I think it's BS of course.

I've seen Milos claim this too. Not sure if here, or his own board or not. But I remember him talking about Ronnie and saying how Ronnie was a natty. Then at one contest (I want to say the Canada or something that Ronnie won, Milos finished second I think?) Milos leaned over to Ronnie and said "You're natural still and you come in looking like that?!?!?" and Ronnie said "I'm not claiming that anymore."

Now, I respect the hell out of Milos. His methods for training especially. But sometimes we can't always believe everything we read. I think Ronnie probably was juicing to some extent, probably all the way back to his football days.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on November 27, 2008, 08:44:14 AM
I've seen Milos claim this too. Not sure if here, or his own board or not. But I remember him talking about Ronnie and saying how Ronnie was a natty. Then at one contest (I want to say the Canada or something that Ronnie won, Milos finished second I think?) Milos leaned over to Ronnie and said "You're natural still and you come in looking like that?!?!?" and Ronnie said "I'm not claiming that anymore."

Now, I respect the hell out of Milos. His methods for training especially. But sometimes we can't always believe everything we read. I think Ronnie probably was juicing to some extent, probably all the way back to his football days.

Milos also said the Malaysian bodybuilders are life time naturals and didn't even use insulin.  :D
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: YoungBlood on November 27, 2008, 08:59:26 AM

Remember, it is the training theories I believe Milos has down. His nutrition is extensive, though sometimes it doesn't work for me (the Fed-Ex drink for example), though it may for others.
The drug regimen may or may not be true. I'm not studied in that, and though I'm intrigued by it, it's not my part of my interests. So he could be bullshitting there as well...maybe certain guys do really only take 1.5g of test like he claimed in answer to gh15's post about 30g of test per week (;D) but again, I have no idea about most of that stuff.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: willl on November 27, 2008, 09:56:22 AM
how about his THIRD mass explosion from 2002 to 2003?  8)

the guy has been juicing all his life. difference is genetics and dosage and ability to handle dosage
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Figo on November 28, 2008, 08:15:11 AM
Besides that? Thats not enough to you?

Some people think that drugs are a joke.

You misunderstood what I meant, Im not implying that its just gh, slin, aas.

Im was asking for replies other than: "all drugs", "slin", "synthol"...

Know what I mean?
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Rome on November 28, 2008, 08:21:21 AM
Classic example of someone waiting until he reached his natural genetic limits before doing lots of A.S. He built the foundation on years of hard training and THEN hit the heavy pharmaceuticals.

That's how it's supposed to be done. These days it's 2-3 years of training and then right into 2 +grams of test a week and GH   :-\
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: jon cole on November 28, 2008, 09:47:42 AM
in fact where is the true...?
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Kentucky_cowboy on November 28, 2008, 10:25:07 AM
He started focusing more on FEELING the muscle, going for HIGHER reps and not lifting like a powerlifter.   :D
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: bodybuilder1234 on November 28, 2008, 01:44:14 PM
any proof? picture of him standing on a scale with it reading 303 maybe?

he goes up to 320 in the offseason, hes shown his weight in his DVD's
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: QuakerOats on November 28, 2008, 01:46:28 PM
he goes up to 320 in the offseason, hes shown his weight in his DVD's
again, show me where at a show right before he steps onstage where the scale reads 303.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Boost on November 28, 2008, 01:49:42 PM
again, show me where at a show right before he steps onstage where the scale reads 303.
you won't see any such picture, as Ronnie has never stepped on Stage at 303 (apart from guest posing)
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: QuakerOats on November 28, 2008, 01:51:05 PM
you won't see any such picture, as Ronnie has never stepped on Stage at 303 (apart from guest posing)
exactly.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: kiwiol on November 28, 2008, 01:54:00 PM
Remember, it is the training theories I believe Milos has down. His nutrition is extensive, though sometimes it doesn't work for me (the Fed-Ex drink for example), though it may for others.

What Milos advocates may work for guys who juice, but no natural guy could ever put on decent size and strength on a program of his where you do 500 reps with weights that don't go over 135 lbs in any exercise.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Method101 on November 28, 2008, 02:21:06 PM


Besides the obvious replies of up the dosage, slin, gh, wtf did this guy do to progress from very big to huge?
eat more, took more drugs.

thats it.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Howard on November 28, 2008, 03:32:18 PM
Classic example of someone waiting until he reached his natural genetic limits before doing lots of A.S. He built the foundation on years of hard training and THEN hit the heavy pharmaceuticals.

That's how it's supposed to be done. These days it's 2-3 years of training and then right into 2 +grams of test a week and GH   :-\

Eactly why those early useres never get close to what Ronnie showed on stage.
Once again, if it is nothing but AAS , where are all the ripped 280 lb physiques walking around?
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: New Hank Wood on November 29, 2008, 12:27:06 PM
all year round cycles
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Naked4Jesus on November 29, 2008, 01:02:31 PM
What Milos advocates may work for guys who juice, but no natural guy could ever put on decent size and strength on a program of his where you do 500 reps with weights that don't go over 135 lbs in any exercise.

My thoughts exactly.   I do agree with his philosophy and approach to nutrition which he detailed on "Secrets of the Pros".   Not the FedEx drink bullshit with the creatine, glutamine, vaseline; bend over and take it up the a$$ approach but the idea of stimulating your metabolism to lose fat instead of lowering calories. 
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: hazbin on December 10, 2008, 10:41:42 PM
I've seen Milos claim this too. Not sure if here, or his own board or not. But I remember him talking about Ronnie and saying how Ronnie was a natty. Then at one contest (I want to say the Canada or something that Ronnie won, Milos finished second I think?) Milos leaned over to Ronnie and said "You're natural still and you come in looking like that?!?!?" and Ronnie said "I'm not claiming that anymore."

Now, I respect the hell out of Milos. His methods for training especially. But sometimes we can't always believe everything we read. I think Ronnie probably was juicing to some extent, probably all the way back to his football days.

i was in that show, amateur division, and thought Milos was going to win. but Ronnie did look different than all the other pros. for Milos to admit Ronnie was natty at or near that show gives strength to the drugfree argument, as Milos won't believe most people with substantial size can be clean.

i saw Ronnie guest pose a year later, and said "there's our next Mr. Olympia" he was totally transformed.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Danimal77 on December 11, 2008, 10:23:55 AM
Can you see it now?




That's an 80 pound gain all in his CRANIUM  ;)
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Danimal77 on December 11, 2008, 10:26:12 AM
What was ronnie at the '04 Olympia?

Around 300lbs wasn't he?

296 pounds according to him.
Title: Re: How did he do it?
Post by: Danimal77 on December 11, 2008, 10:26:49 AM
You are gay.

with a name like BEAR, isn't that calling the kettle...............  ::)
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 11, 2008, 10:42:03 AM
Ronnie has the constitution of a horse.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: m8 on December 11, 2008, 11:01:34 AM
With more side delt roundness he'd have multiple Olympias under his belt.
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: the_swami on December 11, 2008, 04:59:08 PM
myostatin gene inhibitors
Title: Re: How did Ronnie Coleman do it?
Post by: Sam on December 11, 2008, 05:01:28 PM
All down to Weider principles