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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: NaturalWonder83 on November 26, 2008, 07:18:29 PM

Title: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on November 26, 2008, 07:18:29 PM
what do yall think of doing weighted dips or gironda dips instead of flat benching?
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: QuakerOats on November 26, 2008, 07:20:27 PM
my chest gets more sore from weighted dips than bench presses but i still bench every week, dips are a great movement.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on November 26, 2008, 07:29:43 PM
my chest gets more sore from weighted dips than bench presses but i still bench every week, dips are a great movement.
hmmm same here-ive been doing heavy slow dips and my chest has taken a new shape-more squared off...i feel benching in my delts too much...dumbells work good though

what do u guys think of just doing flies in your chest workout-one could argue for someone who has issues with delts taking over in pressing then isolation exercises would be good? ddint bill pearl sometimes only do fly movements?
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: leonp1981 on November 26, 2008, 07:37:00 PM
I like doing dips, but I don't feel them much across the whole chest, regardless of the angle I do them, so I would always need some slight incline work to feel like I'd worked the whole chest. 

I also love doing them for tri's, one of my best movements.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on November 26, 2008, 07:40:29 PM
I like doing dips, but I don't feel them much across the whole chest, regardless of the angle I do them, so I would always need some slight incline work to feel like I'd worked the whole chest. 

I also love doing them for tri's, one of my best movements.
oh yeah! id def do incline work...but then do dips instead of flat benching
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Cap on November 26, 2008, 07:43:31 PM
oh yeah! id def do incline work...but then do dips instead of flat benching
I've taken this approach from time to time and I like it.  I'm not a big fan of bench presses, but really like dips and inclines.  I've always been stronger in these lifts than flat bench.  If it works for you and you also do upper chest work, then why not?
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Samhain on November 26, 2008, 07:57:06 PM
Dips leanning forward, tend to work my lower pecs pretty good. So I started doing them instead of decline bench.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: big L dawg on November 26, 2008, 08:15:29 PM
do um at the end of your chest workout.no added weight needed just 4 set's till falure.oh yea!
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: LatsMcGee on November 26, 2008, 09:51:56 PM
Dips are the way to go IMO.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: webcake on November 26, 2008, 11:16:26 PM
Great exercise...i'm glad i started using them.

I do DB incline, flat flyes and dips for chest. No more flat benches.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Bluto on November 27, 2008, 03:32:02 AM
cant do gironda dips at my gym
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on November 27, 2008, 05:48:38 AM
Dips are a must in every chest program.

Just make sure you flex your chest right, some people manage to do dips only with their triceps it seems. The key is to push yourself as much up as possible, bring the shoulders down and flex the chest. Try to forget your arms.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Faust on November 27, 2008, 06:21:14 AM
do um at the end of your chest workout.no added weight needed just 4 set's till falure.oh yea!
Yeah, i do them at the end as well.

Usually two sets. Really burns out my chest. I have the feeling afterwards that the muscle has been worked "deeply" all over. Cant really explain it, but very diff from regular presses.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: pumpster on November 27, 2008, 09:47:58 AM
Dips are a must in every chest program.

Just make sure you flex your chest right, some people manage to do dips only with their triceps it seems. The key is to push yourself as much up as possible, bring the shoulders down and flex the chest. Try to forget your arms.

The easiest way to describe proper dip form for chest is to make it as much of a fly motion as possible-move the upper arms, minimize forearm motion. It's the same thing with all torso work including lats. Plus finding the right angle that emphasizes chest-forward for chest, back for tris.

For tris you want to change angles and maximize forearm ROM, minimize upper arm motion.

Dips can be better than bench, throw out the book. They don't have to be just a "finishing" exercise. The most effective exercises should be put at the start of the workout.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on November 27, 2008, 09:49:57 AM
The easiest way to describe proper dip form for chest is to make it as much of a fly motion as possible-move the upper arms, minimize forearm motion. It's the same thing with lat work BTW. Plus getting the angle right.

For tris you want to change angles and maximize forearm ROM, minimize upper arm motion.

Dips can be better than bench, they don't have to be just a "finishing" exercise. The most effective exercises should be put at the start of the workout.

thanks, that's what i meant.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: pumpster on November 27, 2008, 09:51:23 AM
thanks, that's what i meant.

Sure, it's hard to describe the difference. Same thing for any lat or chest exercise-use a fly or fanning motion that emphasizes upper arm motion and minimizes forearms.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on November 27, 2008, 09:53:55 AM
Sure, it's hard to describe the difference. Same thing for any lat or chest exercise-use a fly or fanning motion that emphasizes upper arm motion and minimizes forearms.

english is not my first language, and i had to watch out for my boss to peep around a corner.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: pumpster on November 27, 2008, 09:56:28 AM
english is not my first language, and i had to watch out for my boss to peep around a corner.  ;D ;D

I've rarely seen it described clearly even by english speakers.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Deicide on November 27, 2008, 10:30:48 AM
what do yall think of doing weighted dips or gironda dips instead of flat benching?

You love this site Bluto.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Cap on November 27, 2008, 10:40:30 AM
Dips can be better than bench, throw out the book. They don't have to be just a "finishing" exercise. The most effective exercises should be put at the start of the workout.
Rusty Jeffers said this to me during a lengthy conversation.  Pick what you are strongest at and use it.

Most guys can perfect the form on dips, more so than BB bench IMO.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: jpm101 on November 28, 2008, 10:39:22 AM
Dips for me, one of my favorite upper body exercises.  Think bench's are highly overrated. Dips are not a "finishing" exercise but a main compound movement geared for strength and muscle mass. A lot of weight can be added to the body with a proper belt.

This is where the "V" bar can come in to give certain advantages to the regular dipping bar.  Can go from extra wide to extra narrow, or any hand spacing between.

 If you have the knuckles facing forward, at the end of any dipping bar, rather than the normal knuckles facing to the side, the pec's will get an unbelievable  stretch and influence on the chest. This position allows the elbows out much wider, which give that superior stretch. Some have had their heels of the palm, while facing the dipping bar, on the end of the bar. Giving much focus to the triceps , but also affecting the pec area.

Any interest in the Gironda style of dipping, on a "V" bar, only have to do a search. Lot of information out there. Good Luck.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on November 28, 2008, 10:43:04 AM
Thanks for that info!
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: jon cole on November 28, 2008, 10:44:54 AM
old timer never did bp; and they all have huge chest, cos they were doing a lot of dips with tone of weight
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: jon cole on November 28, 2008, 10:45:41 AM
Dips for me, one of my favorite upper body exercises.  Think bench's are highly overrated. Dips are not a "finishing" exercise but a main compound movement geared for strength and muscle mass. A lot of weight can be added to the body with a proper belt.

This is where the "V" bar can come in to give certain advantages to the regular dipping bar.  Can go from extra wide to extra narrow, or any hand spacing between.

 If you have the knuckles facing forward, at the end of any dipping bar, rather than the normal knuckles facing to the side, the pec's will get an unbelievable  stretch and influence on the chest. This position allows the elbows out much wider, which give that superior stretch. Some have had their heels of the palm, while facing the dipping bar, on the end of the bar. Giving much focus to the triceps , but also affecting the pec area.

Any interest in the Gironda style of dipping, on a "V" bar, only have to do a search. Lot of information out there. Good Luck.

say yes for the V bar
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: JasonH on November 28, 2008, 11:12:29 AM
what do yall think of doing weighted dips or gironda dips instead of flat benching?

Why? What's wrong with benching? And why not do both?
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: D-bol on November 30, 2008, 12:03:15 AM
what do yall think of doing weighted dips or gironda dips instead of flat benching?

should not be a substitute exercise, but great as a complement to bench press
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: powerpack on November 30, 2008, 12:13:20 AM
You have to be built for dips or it freaks out your shoulders
The only time I did a lot of them was when I was in the Army and bench was not an option.
It is a good general upper body work out along with chins.
But I think there are better options for the chest
Title: Post-exhaust, Dips to Incline Flys
Post by: Soundness on November 30, 2008, 12:25:43 AM
what do yall think of doing weighted dips or gironda dips instead of flat benching?

Dips are my favorite movement. If you want to ensure you hit the entire chest, do this:

Superset dips with a fly that is slightly inclined. Set the bench at about 30 degrees. Do a set of dips on the parallel bars to failure, then immediately, with NO rest, jump on the bench and do one set of incline flyes to failure. You'll finish off your entire chest.

You may be familiar with pre-exhaust.
I call this, moving from a compound (Dips) to an isolation (Flys), "post-exhaust." It works really well.

From (http://www.building-muscle101.com/images/dips.jpg) to
(http://www.exercisegoals.com/images/incline-dumbbell-flyes-midp.jpg)(http://www.exercisegoals.com/images/incline-dumbbell-flyes-star.jpg)
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on December 01, 2008, 05:36:30 AM
good way to do chest.

Milos style giant sets take care of that problem.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Bluto on December 01, 2008, 05:41:28 AM
Some claim flys is a worthless exercise

It might just be, might just be... discuss this possibility.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on December 01, 2008, 05:45:06 AM
Some claim flys is a worthless exercise

It might just be, might just be... discuss this possibility.

no it's not, if you do it right.

Sure, you won't build a great chest only doing flies, but imo the key to flies is a) do them as a spuerset with presses and b) flex your chest as hard as you can all the way through the movement.

Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Bluto on December 01, 2008, 05:47:07 AM
no it's not, if you do it right.

Sure, you won't build a great chest only doing flies, but imo the key to flies is a) do them as a spuerset with presses and b) flex your chest as hard as you can all the way through the movement.



What if you don't superset them with presses and just do presses? I seem to remember quite a few people who built great chests that way by just sticking to presses...

I think the theory was something along the lines that the pressing movement already involves the entire chest area that any additional movements wasnt necessary for ultimate growth...

Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on December 01, 2008, 05:53:26 AM
What if you don't superset them with presses and just do presses? I seem to remember quite a few people who built great chests that way by just sticking to presses...

I think the theory was something along the lines that the pressing movement already involves the entire chest area that any additional movements wasnt necessary for ultimate growth...



You asked about flies.

So i said how i would include flies.

Are you trying to start a fight again?



Why NOT do flies?? If you get that perfect chest with only presses, good for you. Eventually people want change, or work out for fun. Flies are a good movement, and they help develop the chest.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Bluto on December 01, 2008, 07:03:21 AM
You asked about flies.

So i said how i would include flies.

Are you trying to start a fight again?



Why NOT do flies?? If you get that perfect chest with only presses, good for you. Eventually people want change, or work out for fun. Flies are a good movement, and they help develop the chest.


I dont know man, aint sure about if they will help develop the chest.

How can you be so sure?
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: jpm101 on December 01, 2008, 08:46:47 AM
Actually the lighter one joint exercise (flys, lateral raise, leg extensions, etc...usually extensions exercises) are done before a compound exercise, when doing the Pre-Exhause system. So doing a set of flys before the dips (or benches or inclines) is the idea. Theory being to "isolate" a specific muscle until it can not preform anymore rep's than quickly do a compound exercise to work that muscle even more. Dips bring in the triceps and delts to assist the pecs even more with their work load. The faster you do that compound movement after the "isolation" the better to take advantage of the Pre-Exhaustion on that muscle you may be target.

Can work very well with lateral raises and the Press Behind the neck (or even medium grip upright rows). Preacher curls followed by BB cheat curls work the biceps very, very strongly. Straight arm pullovers before pulldowns. A version that woks the back for me is straight arm pullovers followed right away with heavier bent arm pullovers. Must be dozens of combo that can be used when doing Pre-Exhause.

If some guy's would have Dips (with different hand positions) as the main chest exercise (not doing the BP at all), for 6 weeks or so, they may be surprised at the results achieved. Trick with the dips is not trying  for the ultimate stretch at the bottom of the movement, not really needed. But many trainee's are programs to think that benches are the prime chest builder only. Or even have dips with-in a sound chest program if you can not do without the BP. Good Luck.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: _bruce_ on December 08, 2008, 04:09:22 AM
So if my side delts are lacking I am doing side raises and quickly after that presses to bring them up?
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: jpm101 on December 08, 2008, 10:33:18 AM
Yes you are. Classic Pre-Exhaustion system. Good Luck.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: pumpster on December 08, 2008, 10:56:08 AM
So if my side delts are lacking I am doing side raises and quickly after that presses to bring them up?

Try that for a while, then try post-exhaust-reverse the order, give that a try for a while. Also try any 2 exercises together.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Redwingenator on December 08, 2008, 01:39:31 PM
I use weighted dips to primarily hit the triceps really heavy.  My bench numbers always increase after going really heavy on dips for a month.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Cyrus The Virus on December 08, 2008, 01:41:54 PM
I can't do dips in my gym.  >:(
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: leonp1981 on December 08, 2008, 04:29:29 PM
I can't do dips in my gym.  >:(

Time Out after 7 posts?  That's got to be some sort of record.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 04:31:37 PM
I can't do dips in my gym.  >:(

Then do bench instead. Dips are like an extreme decline bench press.

Just do exactly what I suggested above, but do bench press instead of dips.  ;)
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on December 09, 2008, 01:40:48 AM
Time Out after 7 posts?  That's got to be some sort of record.

on a side note: the record is timeout after one post. there are some gimmicks who achieved that.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: DK II on December 09, 2008, 01:45:29 AM
I can't do dips in my gym.  >:(

i really can't believe that. There's always a possibility to do dips. You can use two benches and do chest dips.

In a gym that i went to a few years ago, i did dips between two leg machines, putting the hands on the weight towers.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: jpm101 on December 09, 2008, 08:25:10 AM
Agree with DK. Most always you can rig something up to do dips at the gym (strange gym). Or maybe at home, setting up something. A friend of mine did dips where the kitchen counter's made a 90 degree turn. Worked well, even with added BB plates strapped on.

Declines are not like a extreme decline press. With dips your are pressing down and along side the body. Declines, your are pressing out and away from the body. Different muscle responses. Might have a bias here, but why do declines when dip can be way more effective for most people? That is, with added weight. Good Luck.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Redwingenator on December 09, 2008, 01:45:39 PM
I can't do dips in my gym.  >:(

My gym has the Hammer Strength squat racks that look like this:
(http://www.localcatering.com/caterer/fitnessunlimited/pictures/Hammer%20Half%20Rack.jpg)

I put each rack arm at Armpit level and then put one 45lb bar across each end.  Works great for dips.

My gym has the Hammer Strength Dips machine:
(http://us.commercial.lifefitness.com/resources/category/1/1/3/2/images/thumb.HAMMERSTRENGTH-SeatedDip1.jpg)
This is a piece of crap.  It sucks to go heavy on because you have to load so many fricking plates, then you lose ROM by going heavy.  You're also so locked into a specific path of motion it just feels wrong.
Title: Re: dips instead of bench...hmmmmmmmm
Post by: Get Rowdy on December 09, 2008, 10:05:48 PM
Agree with DK. Most always you can rig something up to do dips at the gym (strange gym). Or maybe at home, setting up something. A friend of mine did dips where the kitchen counter's made a 90 degree turn. Worked well, even with added BB plates strapped on.

Declines are not like a extreme decline press. With dips your are pressing down and along side the body. Declines, your are pressing out and away from the body. Different muscle responses. Might have a bias here, but why do declines when dip can be way more effective for most people? That is, with added weight. Good Luck.

Yep this is what I did all of last year, the only chest exercise I did.  Made some great gains with it.