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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Captain Equipoise on November 29, 2008, 12:25:57 AM
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If you could pick just one, test aside (since anyone with a brain will use test as a base!)
what would you pick? I would have to say either winstrol or EQ for me...
great lean gains, not a lot of sides, etc. personally I avoid super strong androgenic's like Suspension or Anadrol, to me it's pointless being swelled up like a balloon with a moon face. I prefer lean gains that look good.
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So test is base ya? one other to add to test?
Id go eq or tren...Both designed for animals ;D
If its only one compound then would have to be test.
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If you could pick just one, test aside (since anyone with a brain will use test as a base!)
what would you pick? I would have to say either winstrol or EQ for me...
great lean gains, not a lot of sides, etc. personally I avoid super strong androgenic's like Suspension or Anadrol, to me it's pointless being swelled up like a balloon with a moon face. I prefer lean gains that look good.
Fresh Tren!
:D
DIV
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Turinabol.
Safe, effective, good lean gains, some gains in strenght and i did not notice sides even at 90 mg per day.
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dianabol
I don't know what it is about it... but I fucckin blow up on that and awesome strength gains
insanely effective
most people rave about deca but dbol is amazing
Interesting you said "favourite" what country you from?
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Only on Test E right now.
Blown the fuck up +25 lbs.
Trying tren next cycle ;D
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I like EQ not the strongest but a nice compliment to test, its like beer or fine wine compared to whiskey, when considering some of the stronger anabolic's such as deca or Anadrol for example. It has a moderate strength and size increase and nice vasculrity while eating clean. Enduance has also been seen as increasing. Seems like a very tolerable steroid for long term use. Nice gains can be had at 400-600mg EW. Have not had a noticeable appetite increase like others have noted.
I am also concerned to the quality of EQ available, or if it's even real EQ. From what I understand the powder is expensive and hard to obtain. Will only be found in UG form, the real vet stuff is dosed too low anyhow to warrent it's use. You would have to slam 8ml oil just to get a decent dose each week!!
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tren but i hate the cough next would be test or winny... winny seems to lean me out like crazy even in a caloric surplus.. test makes me feel great and is awesome for raw size gains
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Tren Enanathate.
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Tren.. and when my body can tolerate it, m1t is pretty amazing. I can only handle a couple weeks on it at no more than 20mg ed and then things go downhill.
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;D tbol ;D
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Deca.
Mostly for the joint and tendon benefits. LN
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hands down TREN ACETATE Every day 100mg and Karachi Sos till i die
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Cell-Tech
Nitro-Tech & SuperPump...also known as diarrhea in a bottle, AKA SuperDump
As for the thread here, Tren-A hands down. Nothing else is even remotely close IMO. Even so, Test is still all I really need, I would be happy as a Rosie O'Donnell at an all you can eat cooter convention if I had a lifetime supply of HG Enanthate.
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Nitro-Tech & SuperPump...also known as diarrhea in a bottle, AKA SuperDump
As for the thread here, Tren-A hands down. Nothing else is even remotely close IMO. Even so, Test is still all I really need, I would be happy as a Rosie O'Donnell at an all you can eat cooter convention if I had a lifetime supply of HG Enanthate.
How much Tren Ace do you usually take? Do you get sides?
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How much Tren Ace do you usually take? Do you get sides?
Last time I took it I ran 50mg/eod
The times before that 100mg/ed
So I guess there is no usual for me.
Either way, sometimes if I've been on tren for a long time, my BP gets a little high...usually takes about 8wks for this to happen.
I usually run tren somewhere in the 8-12wk range.
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tren, and dbol are my two favorites.
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personally I avoid super strong androgenic's like Suspension or Anadrol,
Anyone here feel that Anadrol isn't very androgenic? It has little of the effects I would associate with high androgenic steroids. I'm not talking about the quick weight and strength gains - creatine can put on several pounds in a few days.
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Anyone here feel that Anadrol isn't very androgenic? It has little of the effects I would associate with high androgenic steroids. I'm not talking about the quick weight and strength gains - creatine can put on several pounds in a few days.
LOL, you're comparing the effects of Anadrol to Creatine ?!!?... please tell me this is a joke...
Anadrol is hands down the strongest oral (if not altogether!) steroid made in the world. That's all there is to say about it. Next you'll be telling us dbol is about as effective as some good amino acids :)
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for me anadrol blows nuts... and from what ive read about it ...it makes no sense that it would work good for anybody... IIRC it was designed to increase red blood cell production for people with anemia by increasing EPO production.. its not made for bodybuilding.. and the recommended doseage for a 220lb person is 500mg per day... :-\
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;D tbol ;D
never tried that
is it comparable to d-bol ?
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never tried that
is it comparable to d-bol ?
It's dbol lite...dbol without the water and bloat.
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Haha everyone I know who's used anadrol says it sucks. Dbol doesn't do shit for me. High dosed legit anavar is probably my favorite steroid. No injections, quality mass gains and strength gains that stick with you, moderate sides.
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never tried that
is it comparable to d-bol ?
yeah, compared to dbol it sucks. ;D
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yeah, compared to dbol it sucks. ;D
Oh yeah, here we go....the fucking steroid expert chimes in... how many cycles is it you've run now? one ?
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dont gotta be an expert to know tbol is weak compared to dbol brotha
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tbol is not weak compared to dbol. Just different. Its like dbol lite, dbol with out the water and bloat. I love tbol, but I choose dbol because I'm not one to bloat and hold much water.
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lmao okay so " proviron is not weak compared to test, its just different, its like test lite, without the water and bloat. " would also be true
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dont gotta be an expert to know tbol is weak compared to dbol brotha
legit turinanabol is not weak. My guess is a lot of guys who think they are getting legit tbol actually are not. That's the entire problem with steroids these days. I've used several different brands of dbol over the years. I'll tell you what, half my shit must have been bunk or I just don't respond well to it. Because in my opinion it's not that great. Others will blow the fuck up on it. This is true for just about every steroid nowadays except test. Do you honestly think there would be sucha broad spectrum of opinions and results with certain drugs like deca, dbol, primo like there is today? It's cause of all the bunk, low dosed shit that has hit the market, including UG gear. Legit high dosed primo is a great drug. Deca used to be the most popular steroid for a reason way back when. Now everyone is deathly afraid of it because they think they will get deca dick and "progesterone induced" gyno. LOL. The urban legends that exist among the bodybuilding forums don't help either.
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legit turinanabol is not weak.
compared to dbol - yes it is.
compared to no steroids at all - its strong as fuck.
the rest of your post i agree with 100%
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compared to dbol - yes it is.
compared to no steroids at all - its strong as fuck.
the rest of your post i agree with 100%
Well I guess "weak" or "strong" is subjective. I'd take legit anavar anyday over legit dbol. But many will claim dbol is a much "stronger" steroid. I.e. the effects are much more pronounced. Most of the effect from dbol is water retention. Dbol isn't going to grow muscle any faster than anything else. This is true for all steroids. Eq and test are similar comparisons. Water retention can increase your strength or allow you to lift heavier which can increase your rate of muscle growth but all in all at the end of a cycle and the water retention wears off.......anavar or dbol.....will give you comparable gains in muscle mass and strength.
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Deca has to be my favorite injectable, Tren would be a very close second. Dbol would be my favorite oral.
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lmao okay so " proviron is not weak compared to test, its just different, its like test lite, without the water and bloat. " would also be true
LMAO at the guy who just started his first cycle, has never come off, but has used everything under the sun, and is the gear guru. Thats pretty funny.
Oh also the guy on other forums asking for advice on making tren, because its legal in his country. Do you think we don't see these BS posts from you?
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Not gonna play games with you Dizzle. I don't disrespect you, just call it as I see it.
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Most of the effect from dbol is water retention. Dbol isn't going to grow muscle any faster than anything else. This is true for all steroids. Eq and test are similar comparisons. Water retention can increase your strength or allow you to lift heavier which can increase your rate of muscle growth but all in all at the end of a cycle and the water retention wears off.......anavar or dbol.....will give you comparable gains in muscle mass and strength.
incorrect.
water retention and bloat is caused by aromitazation into estrogen and estrogen itself is going to make your steroids much more effective a building muscles thus armoitizing steroids are going to build much more muscle, not just water inside the muscle, the non aromatiing steroids would.
and nto just that but even without the estrogen certain steroids work better for certain people at buildin muscle. diferent steroids activate/signal different things and soem signal/activate muscle growth more than other steroids.
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incorrect.
water retention and bloat is caused by aromitazation into estrogen and estrogen itself is going to make your steroids much more effective a building muscles thus armoitizing steroids are going to build much more muscle, not just water inside the muscle, the non aromatiing steroids would.
and nto just that but even without the estrogen certain steroids work better for certain people at buildin muscle. diferent steroids activate/signal different things and soem signal/activate muscle growth more than other steroids.
If you're going to try to sound like you know what you are talking about try to use terms that sound intelligent. I.e. androgenic vs. anabolic. Class I vs. Class II. AR mediated vs. Non AR mediated pathways etc. I know plenty about steroids bro and how they work at a pharmocological level. But real world experience is a completely different story. Water retention is not only caused by estrogenic side effects. Steroids affect electrolyte levels and for a lot of people water retention is as much a side effect of Na retention as it is estrogen.
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If you're going to try to sound like you know what you are talking about try to use terms that sound intelligent. I.e. androgenic vs. anabolic. Class I vs. Class II. AR mediated vs. Non AR mediated pathways etc. I know plenty about steroids bro and how they work at a pharmocological level. But real world experience is a completely different story. Water retention is not only caused by estrogenic side effects. Steroids affect electrolyte levels and for a lot of people water retention is as much a side effect of Na retention as it is estrogen.
;D
thats ok though.... alot of people were fooled by that...
if you know about steroids and how they work in the body then you also know about how estrogen is synergistic with androgens and all the various pathways through which it helps out.
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incorrect.
water retention and bloat is caused by aromitazation into estrogen and estrogen itself is going to make your steroids much more effective a building muscles thus armoitizing steroids are going to build much more muscle, not just water inside the muscle, the non aromatiing steroids would.
and nto just that but even without the estrogen certain steroids work better for certain people at buildin muscle. diferent steroids activate/signal different things and soem signal/activate muscle growth more than other steroids.
Steroids that convert to estrogen are not more effective at building muscle. Most people would agree that tren is the most powerful steroid and IT DOES NOT CONVERT TO ESTROGEN.
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;D
thats ok though.... alot of people were fooled by that...
if you know about steroids and how they work in the body then you also know about how estrogen is synergistic with androgens and all the various pathways through which it helps out.
Ok genius so what are these "pathways" in which estrogen is "synergistic" with androgens. LMAO! Another "internet" steroid guru you're turning out to be eh?
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okay well im leaving for class right now but ill just list a few quick ones
increase gh (increase igf)
increase glucose metabolism
increase androgen receptor density (#)
increase satellite cell density (#)
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LOL, you're comparing the effects of Anadrol to Creatine ?!!?... please tell me this is a joke...
Anadrol is hands down the strongest oral (if not altogether!) steroid made in the world. That's all there is to say about it. Next you'll be telling us dbol is about as effective as some good amino acids :)
No I'm not joking in the slightest. I don't think you read my post very carefully. Here's the thing, and think about it before you dismiss it: steroids can cause quick weight gain without being very (comparatively) androgenic. The converse is also true (think Halo, mibolerone, even tren. Which do you think is more androgenic, drol or tren?). Corticosteroids cause severe water retention too, and in fact one mechanism through which anabolic steroids can cause water retention is through mineral-corticoid receptor interaction. MuscleMcMannus touched on this. The comparison to creatine was to show that a quick weight gain, and even strength gain, doesn't necessarily mean its extremely androgenic since there are other pathways at work.
I did not say Anadrol isn't effective or "weak", just that it doesn't seem very androgenic to me i.e. doesn't cause zits, boost or depress sex drive dramatically, doesn't stimulate the CNS. And etc., etc. Anadrol is also known to be an extremely weak binder of the AR (it's possible its metabolites are though). My hunch is that on a mg to mg basis Anadrol might be a weaker androgen than something like Winstrol even. If anyone knows of females who have run low dosages of Anadrol please chime in; did they get lots of virilization? I remember Duchaine saying females running 25mg/day didn't get lots of virilization.
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okay well im leaving for class right now but ill just list a few quick ones
increase gh (increase igf)
increase glucose metabolism
increase androgen receptor density (#)
increase satellite cell density (#)
So why don't we all just take estrogen instead of testosterone? Estrogen is important and bodybuilders should not try to block estrogen if they don't have to. But estrogen exists in certain ratios to testosterone. That's what matters. Saying estrogen is important to building muscle is ignorant. Cortisol is NECESSARY to build muscle in a roundabout way but that doesn't mean we want a shit load of it flowing through our veins.
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No I'm not joking in the slightest. I don't think you read my post very carefully. Here's the thing, and think about it before you dismiss it: steroids can cause quick weight gain without being very (comparatively) androgenic. The converse is also true (think Halo, mibolerone, even tren. Which do you think is more androgenic, drol or tren?). Corticosteroids cause severe water retention too, and in fact one mechanism through which anabolic steroids can cause water retention is through mineral-corticoid receptor interaction. MuscleMcMannus touched on this. The comparison to creatine was to show that a quick weight gain, and even strength gain, doesn't necessarily mean its extremely androgenic since there are other pathways at work.
I did not say Anadrol isn't effective or "weak", just that it doesn't seem very androgenic to me i.e. doesn't cause zits, boost or depress sex drive dramatically, doesn't stimulate the CNS. And etc., etc. Anadrol is also known to be an extremely weak binder of the AR (it's possible its metabolites are though). My hunch is that on a mg to mg basis Anadrol might be a weaker androgen than something like Winstrol even. If anyone knows of females who have run low dosages of Anadrol please chime in; did they get lots of virilization? I remember Duchaine saying females running 25mg/day didn't get lots of virilization.
Anadrol does not convert to estrogen and most of it's anabolic properties are a result of it's non androgen receptor mediated effects. Anyone that has taken anadrol and suffered from gyno symptoms and takes an antiestrogen to no avail will also understand that Anadrol is a very strong progesterone. Anadrol is considered weak when not stacked with highly aromatizing steroids. Thus your argument is sound.
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Van, MMcM, thank you for your contributions. Very interesting discussions going on, on this thread. I am constantly learning from you guys and it is a pleasure having you guys aboard. Real world experience combined with book knowledge, is a great combination.
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Anadrol does not convert to estrogen and most of it's anabolic properties...
Anyone that has taken anadrol and suffered from gyno symptoms and takes an antiestrogen to no avail will also understand that Anadrol is a very strong progesterone.
Some think Anadrol might be estrogenic in itself, that it can bind to the ER.
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Some think Anadrol might be estrogenic in itself, that it can bind to the ER.
Anadrol does not convert to estrogen. Any estrogen like side effects are a result of its progestagenic qualities. And you'll see very different results stacking anadrol with testosterone vs. with something like primo or eq. Testosterone being a heavy aromatizer makes anadrol side effects a lot more pronounced for some unknown reason. Everybody is different physiolgoically, some much more sensitive to estrogen or progesterone hence why I think you see so many people who hate deca or love deca and same thing with anadrol.
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Anadrol does not convert to estrogen. Any estrogen like side effects are a result of its progestagenic qualities. And you'll see very different results stacking anadrol with testosterone vs. with something like primo or eq. Testosterone being a heavy aromatizer makes anadrol side effects a lot more pronounced for some unknown reason. Everybody is different physiolgoically, some much more sensitive to estrogen or progesterone hence why I think you see so many people who hate deca or love deca and same thing with anadrol.
I'm well aware of the fact that it doesn't aromatize. I'm no chemist but some like Patrick Arnold can look at a molecule and guess how it might interact with certain receptors etc. He thinks oxymetholone probably has some affinity for the ER i.e. it directly attaches to the estrogen receptor. There are some other "experts" who think the same. IIRC there was a study showing Anadrol having no progestagenic activity. Do you have any data showing otherwise?
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I'm well aware of the fact that it doesn't aromatize. I'm no chemist but some like Patrick Arnold can look at a molecule and guess how it might interact with certain receptors etc. He thinks oxymetholone probably has some affinity for the ER i.e. it directly attaches to the estrogen receptor. There are some other "experts" who think the same. IIRC there was a study showing Anadrol having no progestagenic activity. Do you have any data showing otherwise?
No I don't. Just generic stuff from books and online websites by people like Pat Arnold, Bill Roberts, William Llwellyn, Bryan Haycock etc. It very well might have affinity for the estrogen receptor I'm not a chemist either. But I also know anadrol effects are quite different depending on what it is stacked with so that might be a part of it. And as far as real world experience many guys have used anadrol, like deca and gotten gyno while using antiestrogens so it's gotta be something other than estrogen.
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And as far as real world experience many guys have used anadrol, like deca and gotten gyno while using antiestrogens so it's gotta be something other than estrogen.
Well, estrogen is central to gyno development so it's always involved. That's why this whole "progesterone gyno" or "prolactin gyno" stuff is a bit misguided.
http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm
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Naposim ...that's dianabol at it's finest
nothing comes close for me ...
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Well, estrogen is central to gyno development so it's always involved. That's why this whole "progesterone gyno" or "prolactin gyno" stuff is a bit misguided.
http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm
Yes I agree fully with this. People are on dostinex for that and something for the estro. Too many drugs in system. Alright truefully I thought about the stuff i was taking just a few days ago. Have been for a while on Test, letro, clen, cialis, marijuana and a couple times a week some alcohol. So there are times there are 6 drugs influencing me....thats too many IMO, no wonder I was not feeling really "with it" :-\
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Well, estrogen is central to gyno development so it's always involved. That's why this whole "progesterone gyno" or "prolactin gyno" stuff is a bit misguided.
http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm
Yes but it's not the only hormone that can cause gyno hence progesterone induced gyno.