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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 24KT on November 29, 2008, 06:07:44 PM
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Add your name to the growing list of Canadians in support of a progressive coalition
In 2008 the majority of Canadians voted for a prosperous, fair, and green Canada. Over 60% of voters cast their ballots for parties with progressive platforms. With 37% of the vote the Conservatives will effectively hold 100% of the power.
The Conservatives received 170,000 fewer votes than the last election, yet they won more seats. The Greens, who received 940,747 votes, are not represented at all.
Politics as usual is not working: the progressive majority in Canada is now ruled by a right-wing minority. If Canadians do not act we are going to watch Canada become more unequal, more irresponsible, and more out of step with a changing world.
We can change this. The Conservatives only secured 143 seats in Parliament while the NDP, Liberals, and Bloc Quebecois secured a combined 165 seats. These seats give the NDP, Liberals, and Bloc Quebecois the ability to form a coalition government. You don't have to give up your vision of Canada. The parties can work together to find common ground.
Canadians for a Progressive Coalition are asking the NDP, Liberals, and Bloc Quebecois to form a coalition government that includes counsel from the Greens.
What can you do?
- First, sign the petition for a progressive coalition government.
- Second, please forward this message to people that use email, and speak to the people that don't.
- Third, if you can, get involved every Thursday by phoning either your MP, or the President of the local Riding Association for the party you voted for, to ask them to support their party forming a coalition government.
Some Frequently Asked Questions
1) Is a minority Conservative government the only option?
2) What is a coalition government?
3) Why would we want all the parties to merge into one?
4) Why would they form a coalition government?
5) What is the history of coalition governments?
6) What about electoral reform?
7) What about the Bloc Quebecois?
1) Is a minority Conservative government the only option?
The Conservatives have 143 seats. Combined, the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc Quebecois have 165 seats. With that many seats the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc Quebecois are able to form a coalition government that would replace the Conservative minority government.
2) What is a coalition government?
A coalition government is a government composed of multiple formally cooperating parties. "Government" in this case means control over the Prime Minister's office, cabinet (whose members are in charge of government ministries), and the legislative agenda of Parliament.
The NDP, Liberals, and Bloc Quebecois can make a no-confidence vote against the Conservative government and ask Governor General Michelle Jean to form a coalition government. The coalition government will then replace the Conservative government.
There are many ways that a coalition government can be structured. Canadians for a Progressive Coalition want to leave it to the parties to decide the best way for them to work together. At a minimum, there would be a formal agreement on areas of common interest, and there would be some members from all the coalition parties appointed as ministers to cabinet.
3) Why would we want all the parties to merge into one?
We are not suggesting all of the parties "melt" into one mega-party. Instead, we would like the parties to work together to ensure that commonalities in the progressive parties' platforms, and hence the wishes of the majority (over 60%!) of Canadians, are represented. This is unlikely to happen if progressives instead focus on their differences, creating a divisive opposition incapable of representing the wishes of the majority of Canadians.
The coalition parties would compete with each other in elections. Canadians would get to choose the party that represented them best after vigorous debate. The results of those elections would then determine their relative strength in the coalition government. With a coalition government, smaller parties would have a major role in governing Canada.
4) Why would they form a coalition government?
More than 60% of Canadians voted for the NDP, Liberals, Bloc Quebecois and Greens. These four parties have progressive platforms. All four want balance between government and markets to make Canada a more prosperous, just, and responsible country. They certainly disagree on some issues. However, they have similar positions on many important issues including health care, foreign affairs, and the environment. These shared interests will be the foundation upon which a coalition government is formed.
We want to shift the focus away from divisive discussions of the differences between the parties, and to focus instead on the issues the Liberals, NDP, Bloc Quebecois and Greens largely agree on. Those are the issues that over 60% of voters cast their ballots for. By forming a coalition government the issues that the voters care about will have a chance to guide Canada into the 21st century.
5) What is the history of coalition governments?
Coalition governments are common throughout the world. In particular, the Nordic countries, Germany, Italy, Ireland, Turkey, Israel, Switzerland, Pakistan, and India often have coalition governments. Coalition governments have been an effective way to bring many different political perspectives to the table to develop a course of action that allows the country to go forward in a way that reflects more of their citizen's values.
Canada has a history of coalition governments. The last coalition government was the Union Government that governed from 1917-1920. The Union Government was composed of the Liberal and Conservative parties and was designed to foster national unity in the face of WWI. Before that, the Great Coalition governed the Province of Canada (present day Ontario and Quebec) from 1864-7. The Great Coalition broke a legislative gridlock that had lasted for decades and lead directly to Confederation. Without coalition governments Canada might not exist.
While Canada has had relatively little experience with coalition governments, some of Canada's most important social programs have come from cooperation between progressive parties. In the 1960s Lester B. Pearson's minority Liberal government worked with the NDP, who held the balance of power in Parliament, to bring about universal health care, the Canadian Pension Plan, and the Canada Student Loans program. Working together the NDP and the Liberals brought the 40 hour work week, 2 weeks of vacation a year, and a new minimum wage. Where would Canada be today without that cooperation?
A more recent example of formal party cooperation occured in Ontario. After the 1985 election in Ontario the NDP and the Liberals developed an "accord" that ended 42 years of Conservative rule in that province. After cooperating to bring down the Conservative government through a non-confidence vote the NDP supported the Liberals for two years and the Liberals agreed to several progressive policies supported by the NDP. With support from the NDP the Liberals passed progressive legislation including pay equity laws.
6) What about electoral reform?
This group's goal is to facilitate the formation of a coalition government. The issues at stake are so important, and the world is changing so quickly, that we must act urgently to ensure that Canada becomes more prosperous, just, and responsible.
Many of the people in support of this cause are also interested in electoral reform. Electoral reform and coalition governments are complimentary. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine how a minority Conservative government could be persuaded to pass a law for proportional representation when that would give up the huge advantage they currently enjoy. Furthermore, coalition governments would be necessary to organize government after proportional representation was enacted.
Why? With proportional representation we can expect that there will be more parties and that parties will receive, on average, smaller shares of the total vote. In order to form a government parties will have to work together in a coalition. For example, in Germany the two largest parties almost never win majorities in elections with proportional representation and then govern by forming coalitions.
7) What about the Bloc Quebecois?
Separation is, clearly, not an area the parties agree on, and therefore would not be something a coalition government would pursue. However, the Bloc Quebecois platform is progressive. As one party in a divided opposition they currently have little power. Within a coalition government they would have a greater voice than they do now. The Bloc could become the representatives of francophone interests within a coalition government.
We are going to build momentum until we get a government that reflects the values that we voted for. In the last election we saw vote splitting on a massive scale. Today, we start stitching those votes back together.
Sign the petition (http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/form.php) (<---- Please click the link to sign the petition)
Please contact us at:
campaign@progressivecoalition.ca
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If you form a big coalition, there is a big risk that the political debate and spirit will die off.
That will decrease the democracy.
Voting will decrease, since people will know that the election is already in the banks.
The risk of corruption increases, since the big coalition in power will be able to do whatever they want, and won't have to listen to their voters.
Very bad idea.
Short term, it's a very good idea.
But in the long term, it's bad.
Look at the USA, where there is only two parties, the political diversity is next to nil.
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If you form a big coalition, there is a big risk that the political debate and spirit will die off.
That will decrease the democracy.
Voting will decrease, since people will know that the election is already in the banks.
The risk of corruption increases, since the big coalition in power will be able to do whatever they want, and won't have to listen to their voters.
Very bad idea.
Short term, it's a very good idea.
But in the long term, it's bad.
Look at the USA, where there is only two parties, the political diversity is next to nil.
Au contraire, if a coalition is forged, there will be no need for another costly election.
On the contrary, ...they very much have to represent their voters interests and wishes otherwise the coalition unravels.
Coalitions can only form on common ground, ...on areas wherein all are in agreement and all voices are heard.
You then proceed on common ground. You can still voice your disagreements and campaign for your agendas, however where you move forward are the area within which you are in agreement.
The last coalition I saw was back in the 80's, and that succeeded beyond anyone's wildest imagination.
Ontario residents were so pleased with the results that they later went on to give both the architects of the accord subsequent individual majority mandates.
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i'm joyous when conservatives lose :D
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Im actually interested to see how this works out. Who would your PM be?
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Im actually interested to see how this works out. Who would your PM be?
We're all interested to see how this is going to work out.
So far, from what I understand, they worked out an agreement whereby Stephane Dion would be PM and hold 50% of the seats in the legislature, and all sensitive fiscal cabinet posts will be held by the Liberals. (Hahaha, I guess that's one thing Canadians can agree on, ...the Liberals know how to make Canada prosperous) Jack Layton's NDP members would hold 25% of the seats in the legislature, and the Bloc will support whatever legislation the Liberals and NDP propose. The Bloc trusts the Liberals and the NDP to do the right thing by Quebec, and they'll be there to make sure Quebec interests are represented. The Bloc Quebecois are an interesting bunch. They don't give a shit about Canada as a country, ...they only care about Quebec. They were up in arms over some fast moves Harper tried to pull 6 weeks ago. Their role in the Commons would simply be looking out for Quebec interests. The coalition also vows to take counsel from the Green Party as well. Infact, it was Stephane Dion of the Liberals who insisted the Green Party be allowed to participate in the national debates because he felt they represented something important to alot of Canadians. The NDP didn't want them there and threatened to boycott the debates. I think that's because Green Party members have a tendency to be very left, and layton wants all the left wing votes. He blinked at the last minute and attended along with the Greens.
I honestly have to say I'm not happy with it having to come to this... a legal political coup which is within their rights to do, ...but I blame Harper for this mess. Minority governments know that they can be toppled at any time, so you better move on what the people want. And when the only way you manage to get elected is because you are the only party representing the right, ...and the progressive vote is split four ways, and you only get 30 something % of the vote, you better damned well move in areas that the other 60% of the country agrees on. That would have been the smart thing to do, but harper has made it pretty plain he's not looking out for Canada's interests, he's scheming to position himself, and give himself a distinct advantage over his political opponents and ram a right wing agenda down the throats of a country where over 60% wanted progressive leadership.
I heard there is some dissent in the Liberal ranks tho, in that the two front runner candidates for leadership of the liberal party are in disagreement. Michael Ignatieff wants absolutely nothing to do with Bloc Quebecois support, and Bob Rae believes the coalition should accept Bloc support. This was why Dion was chosen as leader of the liberals. The Ignatieff & Rae camps were too far apart, and Dion had a history of working with both. Ignatieff supporters were Paul Martin supporters and the Rae supporters were supporters of Chretien. When Martin cross the rubicon and declared war on chretien, their supporters have never been able to get along, very few chretien cabinet members were welcomed into a Martin cabinet and Dion goes way back as a federalist who effectively fought the separatists and kept quebec in confederation. He's great with intellectuals and those who think things through, ...but the general public who make decisions based on a superficial beauty pageant, ...his nerdy geek factor and difficulty with english grammar don't help him very well.
It will be interesting to see how this turns out. I'd be happy if the liberals took over.
It would also be interesting to see if criminal charges get laid against the conservatives for wiretapping and or taping a NDP strategy conference call and leaking it's content to the press.
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Opposition Officially Signs Coalition Agreement
And Reveals How It Will Work
Monday December 1, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0108-opp1.jpg)
There is an ancient Chinese curse that says "may you live in interesting times."
Few have been more interesting than the last few days in Canada, one of the strangest and most unusual in this country's storied history.
And it's far from over yet.
The latest bizarre series of events from Ottawa came late Monday afternoon, when the members of the would-be ruling coalition - the Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois - all came together to sign the agreement they hope will create a new federal government in this country, just six weeks after we spent millions choosing the latest one.
We now know the details of what that new entity could look like as soon as next week.
As expected, it will feature a power base combining the numerical strength of the Liberals and the NDP with support from the Bloc Quebecois.
The leader of the new regime will apparently be Stephane Dion, whose defeat was so bad in last month's vote that he was forced to step down and will still be replaced next May.
But under the plan, he will be the new and perhaps the unlikeliest Prime Minister in Canadian history.
Dion knows the agreement, which will involve bringing down the Tories next week during a non-confidence vote, is controversial and that many Canadians aren't happy with this stunning turn of events.
But he believes it's the only way to save a sinking economy and a listing ship of state.
"Canadians elected 308 members of parliament in October, not just Stephen Harper," Dion intones. "This is the parliament they elected. We must try to make this parliament work.
"After these negotiations, I'm very pleased to announce that we are ready to form a new government that will address the best interests of the people instead of plunging Canadians into another inaction. This will be a Liberal-led government in collaboration with the New Democratic Party and with the support of the Bloc Quebecois."
NDP leader Jack Layton, who comes the closest he's ever been to a power broker under the arrangement, was also adamant this has to happen for the good of the country.
"We have not made these choices lightly," he assures. "Our decision was made in full seriousness and clear knowledge of what's at stake."
What will the new entity look like? It will have 18 Liberals and 6 NDP ministers, with the all important Finance Minister coming from the Grits.
The Bloc, which will not have any representatives in the new cabinet, will support the new group until 2011.
The first order of business will be an economic stimulus, the missing element that the parties accuse the Harper government of omitting in their financial statement last week. It will contain help for the auto industry, forestry, public transit and more.
What happens next is anything but assured.
The statement is supposed to come to a delayed vote next Monday. When it's rejected, the government will fall and this new triumvirate will head to the Governor General to ask her to allow them to rule.
Michaelle Jean can grant their request or order another election - something taxpayers clearly don't want.
Despite the end run, there are a few options still open to Harper, all of them desperation ploys. He's already put off the confidence vote for a week, and can prorogue Parliament, delaying things further, or stage a surprise end run and try and call another election himself - with the Governor General's approval.
Jean, the other main player in this endless drama, is still on tour in Europe and is due back next week. She's been briefed on what's going on and the day she returns may tell the tale about which maneuvering will win the day in this bizarre game of chicken.
Harper was clearly rattled during Question Period as he was attacked from all sides, and at one point accidentally referred to the Speaker as "Prime Minister" to great guffaws from the House.
Just a little over a month after winning back an increased minority government, Harper now faces the almost unbelievable fate of losing power - and perhaps, his post.
"This is a gross miscalculation by Stephen Harper and the Conservatives," suggests CityNews Political Specialist Richard Madan. "[There was] no need to put in the public financing in the economic update that threw parliament upside down. And saying this was a poison pill, another gross miscalculation ... An unimaginable situation from just six weeks ago and certainly internally the knives are out for Harper."
Madan describes the atmosphere in Ottawa as "chaotic" and "toxic."
And everyone is choosing up sides.
"My constituents have spoken and the marching orders is to take them down," declares Liberal Jim Karygiannis.
But Tory MP Pierre Poilievre begs to differ. "They're engaged in a power grab to reverse the results of the election," he fumes. "They have been planning this for months."
The Tories vow they'll do everything in their power - while they still retain any power - to head off what they call an "irresponsible and undemocratic" act. That includes proroguing Parliament until January, when their next budget is due.
Canada has only had one other coalition government in its history and to find it, you have to go back almost a full century. It came in 1917, and centered on a conscription plan for World War I.
Now there's a war of a different kind but this is less the Battle of Hill 60 and more like the Battle of Parliament Hill.
And no one knows who's going to win.
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How did we get into this mess?
Coalition Conundrum: Timeline Of A Political Crisis
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-11/nov1008-harpergetty.jpg)
The Conservatives are hanging on to their minority for dear life while what they call the 'unholy alliance' of the Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc plot to assume power in Ottawa.
How did we ever get to this point in one of the strangest cases of political brinksmanship in modern memory? Here's a look at the roadmap that has taken a lot of twists and turns to wind up at the House of Commons.
August 17th
It's not even the end of summer yet and rumours start spreading in Ottawa that Prime Minister Stephen Harper plans to call an election for the fall. It's the first time the words "dysfunctional Parliament" are heard in the land, after a summer when MPs were off on their break.
September 7
It's the weekend after the long Labour Day holiday, but Harper isn't taking the day off. Instead, he finally pulls the plug on his own government, visiting the Governor General to dissolve Parliament and call an election.
It's a move fraught with controversy. Polls indicate most Canadians have no appetite for another federal vote just 31 months into the Tories' minority mandate. And critics point out he's breaking his own word, because he set up a fixed election date that can only be negated with a non-confidence vote in the House, which never happens.
But Harper insists that "dysfunctional Parliament" referred to during the summer means the Conservatives can't get their agenda passed, even though the weakened Liberals have already given in to every controversial piece of legislation the Tories have brought in.
The election will be held on October 14th - one day after the Thanksgiving long weekend and also on a Jewish holiday, which sparks some complaints from those affected.
October 14
After weeks of promising, cajoling and considering, Canadians make up their minds, voting in another Harper minority - albeit slightly larger than last time. The Liberals, reeling from a rejected Green Shift plan presented by a perceived lacklustre leader in Stephane Dion, lose seats, while the NDP gain. The Green Party is once again shut out of Parliament.
October 15
The election nobody wanted is over, and it's clear the public wasn't much in the mood for it. Voter turnout winds up at just 58 per cent - the lowest in Canadian history. Analysts believe it's a sign of anger at a process that cost millions of taxpayer dollars and a dissatisfied electorate who didn't like any of the choices.
October 20
After the worst defeat in the party's history, pressure mounts on lame duck Leader Dion to step down. He finally agrees he will - but not until the Grit leadership convention to be held next May in Vancouver.
November 18
Parliament finally resumes in Ottawa, with all sides pledging they're planning a kinder and gentler session ahead, after Canadians express their displeasure with the way politicians have been acting. Like many political promises, it won't last the month.
November 27 - 4pm
As the economy reels, the Big 3 Auto Makers flirt with bankruptcy and the stock markets ride a roller coaster, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty rises in the House of Commons to deliver an economic statement. By the time he's finished, his pronouncements have triggered an all out war of words and actions that spawns a situation that's almost unprecedented in the history of Canada.
The Tories pledge to cut the $2-per-vote subsidy each party receives to help them fund their activities. They say the economic statement is a matter of confidence, which means if the other parties vote it down, the government will fall, triggering another election just six weeks after Canadians went to the polls.
The announcement results in an uproar amongst the opposition. They accuse the well funded Conservatives of trying to eliminate any challengers and vow they won't take it lying down. They also insist the fact there's no stimulus package to deal with the faltering economy proves the Tories are unfit to govern.
And they confirm they'll all be voting against the statement the following Monday night, as fears grow of yet another nationwide vote.
November 27 -7pm
Just hours after Flaherty's statement is out, a bombshell announcement emerges from Ottawa. The Liberals and the NDP, with the backing of the separatist Bloc Quebecois, vow to use their collective numbers to form a coalition that will oust Stephen Harper and his party from power. Stephane Dion, whose loss was so massive just a month before, seems poised to become the new P.M., at least on a temporary basis.
It's an unprecedented threat that escalates with each passing hour.
For now, though, the Tories stand firm, insisting they won't back down.
November 28 -5:40pm
As the coalition train gathers steam, a defiant Prime Minister Harper accuses the opposition of trying to seize power, get into bed with a separatist entity trying to break up the country and install a leadership Canadians didn't vote for. "The opposition has every right to defeat the government," he intones. "But Stephane Dion does not have the right to take power without an election."
November 28 -8pm
The dust has barely settled on Harper's comments when he makes a move to save his minority. The Conservatives will put off the confidence vote for another week, trying to buy time in this ultimate political chess match.
November 29 - morning
It's Saturday in Ottawa, a day when government is normally closed down for the weekend. But no one's resting in the nation's capital as the Tories try a new tactic, confirming they won't be making the subsidy matter part of the confidence vote, but that it will eventually be introduced somewhere down the line.
November 29 - afternoon
The Tories, now watching the coalition express come heading down the track, finally blink in this game of chicken, agreeing to scrap their plan to end the subsidy for political parties altogether.
It's still not enough for the opposition, who now say their objections are really because the Conservatives aren't doing enough for the wilting economy. They vow to press on with their coalition fight.
November 30 - early afternoon
Flaherty announces the Tories are advancing the date of their budget to January 27th instead of February or March. They've long insisted it makes no sense to propose any changes until they know what new U.S. President Barack Obama has in mind, and he won't be sworn in until January 20th. This gives the Tories a week to see what he proposes - if they're still in power by then.
But the opposition, apparently smelling blood in the water, says it's not enough and the coalition plan remains a go.
November 30 - late afternoon
The plot thickens, when a Tory is accidentally sent a code number to join an NDP phone conference the day before.
The party member tapes the meeting on Saturday and its explosive contents are revealed the next day. It seems to show NDP leader Jack Layton admitting to his party that he planned this coalition move well in advance of the crisis, because it wouldn't have been possible to pull so many disparate entities together so quickly.
"This whole thing wouldn't have happened if the moves hadn't been made with the Bloc to lock them in early because you couldn't put three people together in three hours," a voice identified as Layton's is heard saying. "The first part was done a long time ago."
The Conservatives accuse the NDP and the Bloc of planning it all along, calling them hypocrites waiting for an excuse to pull off a coup no matter what the reason and usurping the choices of Canadians.
The NDP denies the charge and insists the Tories broke the law by monitoring their private conversations.
December 1
On the day that the economic statement should have been voted on, all three party leaders sign a historic agreement outlining how the coalition will work, with Dion assuming the Prime Minister's post and Layton getting 6 of the 24 ministers. As Harper contemplates what to do next, all eyes turn to the December 8th vote - and whether the Governor General will give her permission.
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Text Of Letter To Canadians From Dion, Layton and Duceppe
To our fellow citizens,
Canada is facing a global economic crisis. Since the recent federal election, it has become clear that the government headed by Stephen Harper has no plan, no competence and, no will to effectively address this crisis. Therefore, the majority of Parliament has lost confidence in Mr. Harper's government, and believes that the formation of a new Government that will effectively, prudently, promptly and competently address these critical economic times is necessary.
The contrast between the inaction of Mr. Harper's government and the common action taken by all other Western democracies is striking. We cannot accept this.
A majority of Canadians and Quebecers voted for our parties on October 14, 2008. Our Members of Parliament make up 55 percent of the House of Commons.
In light of the critical situation facing our citizens, and the Harper government's unwillingness and inability to address the crisis, we are resolved to support a new government that will address the interests of the people.
Today we respectfully inform the Governor General that, as soon as the appropriate opportunity arises, she should call on the Leader of the Official Opposition to form a new government, supported as set out in the accompanying accords by all three of our parties.
Respectfully,
Hon. Stéphane Dion
Leader, the Liberal Party of Canada
Hon. Jack Layton
Leader, the New Democratic Party of Canada
Gilles Duceppe
Leader, the Bloc Quebecois
===========================================================
This is looking like a done deal. The Conservative are running scared and Harper was so rattled by these turn of events he couldn't even properly address the Speaker of the House during yesterday's Question Period.
Prime Minister Harper Visibly Flustered during Question Period - (PM for only another 6 days) :P
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Conservative's move to take advantage of economic crisis to position themselves strategically, and overtip their hand with regards to their secret agenda to attack Canadian values and to attack democracy in Canada
Jim Flaherty's Economic Update Poisons the well
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It's all up to the woman dubbed "Le petite Reine du Canada" (Canada's little Queen) to decide:
Do Harper's conservatives get thrown out, with the Liberals heading a coalition to form the new government?
Or will Canadians be forced to spend another $300 million dollars for another election nobody wants?
Methinks, we're getting a coalition headed by the Liberal Party of Canada. (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/yipee.gif)
BREAKING NEWS: ...Michaelle Jean has cut short her trip to Europe and is rushing back to Ottawa
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/an574.gif)
The Liberals are taking over!
The Liberals are taking over!
Neener, neener, neeee-ner!
It's all up to this woman now
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The Three Opposition Leaders forming the coalition hold a joint press conference and answer various questions from reporters.
There's a really funny wtf moment 6:19 in, when a pinhead from the Sun Media (who clearly doesn't understand the Parliamentary process) asks a question so stupid, other reporters literally do a wtf doubletake.
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This makes me sick.
You have no idea how this will play out outside of Toronto.
This is one the biggest mistakes the liberals will have ever made. This only helps out the NDP and will cause tension in the rest of the country.
What a bunch of crass and stupid moves on all parts.
Hopefully we have another election sooner then later.
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This makes me sick.
You have no idea how this will play out outside of Toronto.
Anyone who was around in Ontario in 1985 is familiar with this process, and understand it's constitutionality. It's the voters in Alberta who will be pissing mad and spitting fire over this. The news media here in Toronto is doing a lot of spinning, and acting like this isn't part of the constitutional process, and a contingency within our constitution. They act like it's a military coup d'état without the tanks, generals, bloodshed, and genocide. This is Canadian politics!
Did you catch todays shouting match in Question Period? ;D Poor Milliken :'(
This is one the biggest mistakes the liberals will have ever made. This only helps out the NDP and will cause tension in the rest of the country.
What a bunch of crass and stupid moves on all parts.
Hopefully we have another election sooner then later.
It unfortunately just might come to that. :-\
As I've said all along, Jack Layton is a political opportunist who's first priority is the survival of the NDP,
...but at the same time, there's no question Harper's shot across the bow was the straw that broke the camel's back. He overplayed his hand and everyone had had enough.
I find this hypocrisy on his part rather interesting though. He asked the RCMP to investigate a minister which the RCMP was then obligated to do despite no suspicion of any wrong-doing, then used those same moves to become prime minister, teaming up with the NDP, and the Bloc to get rid of Paul Martin, citing the fact that a minister was under investigation by the RCMP. If it was good enough for him to assume the PM's office after losing an election, why isn't it good enough for Dion?
Rumour has it that it may not be as cut-n-dry as the Constitution says it can be though.
People are pointing to Michaelle Jean's premature return from the Czech republic as an indicator that it could get tricky. The thought being if she stayed in the Czech Republic, and didn't return until Sat, it'd be cut n dry. But her early return could mean trouble. :-\ we'll see...
If it does come down to an election, I have a feeling Harper will sorely regret his words yesterday where he said he didn't want to be Prime Minister governing the economy while being at the behest of a veto from the Bloc. Well Dah! This is Canada, and that's the position you're in! You don't want it... fine... let the coalition, who are willing to rise to the challenge and who represent 60% of the Canadian public form the government.
I just realized the further implications of this. If the coalition goes though, our next Prime Minister will be from Toronto. After Dion goes, ...it will either be Michael Ignatieff or Bob Rae. Oh man I'm just salivating. :P
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If this was the conservatives forming this coalition instead of the libs and ndp and separtists, Jag would be calling the UN right now. She would be going on and on about how the voters rights are being ignored, democracy is being held hostage,etc,etc,etc(you know how silly she gets).
But since its the left thats staging a coup d'etat in Canada, she will say and do anything to make it sound like the greatest thing in the world. Typical Jag.
::)
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If this was the conservatives forming this coalition instead of the libs and ndp and separtists, Jag would be calling the UN right now. She would be going on and on about how the voters rights are being ignored, democracy is being held hostage,etc,etc,etc(you know how silly she gets).
But since its the left thats staging a coup d'etat in Canada, she will say and do anything to make it sound like the greatest thing in the world. Typical Jag.
::)
Actually Tapper, ...this is exactly what Harper attempted to do early in Paul Martin's parliament.
He joined with the NDP and the Bloc and forced a non-confidence vote, ...even tried to bribe a dying MP to do it. He lost. Then he teamed up with the NDP and the Bloc to force another non-confidence vote topple parliament and become the PM. You didn't hear me screaming treason or coup d'état then. I realized it is within the opposition's right to topple parliament in a minority government. that's how it works. For Harper to pretend like he's never heard of this before is disengenuous.
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Jag, Serious question...
Can you explain the canadian party system? Do you have a lib vs conservative, 2 party-type system too?
Thanks
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Jag, Serious question...
Can you explain the canadian party system? Do you have a lib vs conservative, 2 party-type system too?
Thanks
No, we have a multiple party system, and canadians vote for a policy platform that best represents their wishes for Canada. In this past election, there were 5 main candidates, 4 of which held progressive platforms, and only 1 party representing a right wing agenda. The majority of the country voted progressive, only 30% voted conservative. The progressive vote got split 4 ways. Harper won by default, but ever since taking office he has tried to govern as if he held a majority mandate, and he has rammed an agenda that the country clearly doesn't want through Parliament while every step of the way daring the opposition to do something about it if they don't like it. The opposition finally did.
No one is trying to steal power. Each one of the opposition MPs was duly elected by the citizens of Canada to sit in the House of Commons and form Parliament. What the opposition members are saying is that Harper has done nothing to address the economic crisis. The entire economic update has nothning in it for Canadians, it was a strictly partisan effort to re-inforce conservative power. They've demonstrated they are unfit to govern, and the opposition members have no confidence in their ability to do so. therefore they are requesting the ability to lead the nation out of the worldwide crisis we find ourselves in. Harper initially said "We're not changing one thing, if you don't like what we propose ...topple parliament on monday dec 1". The coalition said "ok we will". Then over the weekend Harper withdrew every single contentious item one by one, then postponed the vote til monday dec 8th. The coalition said ok, we'll vote on it on dec 8th. Now Harper wants to suspend Parliament until Jan... essentially requesting a do-over. To prorogue parliament, essentially means to suspend it, and every single motion or piece of legislation that has been proposed but not yet passed disappears as if it never existed to begin with It's like a fresh start. He's begging for a do-over. It's a wimp move. This is the real world, not a game of go fish. There should be no do-overs!
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How Do Coalition Governments Work?
Wednesday December 3, 2008
By Nancy Macdonald, Maclean's Magazine
So the Liberals and NDP have ironed out the dirty details behind their Stephane Dion-led coalition in waiting. Broadly, both believe in stimulus over belt-tightening. But how do coalition governments work, anyway?
For starters, they plan ahead. If -and that's a big if - Prime Minister Stephen Harper doesn't pull the procedural fire alarm by proroguing Parliament, and the Conservative government is defeated in a confidence motion on Dec. 8, Harper will seek the dissolution of Parliament and ask Governor General Michaelle Jean for another election.
"She'll say no," says constitutional expert Paul Thomas, with the University of Manitoba. Given that the would-be coalition government has a 24-member cabinet, a legislative agenda that includes a multi-billion dollar stimulus package for Canada's troubled economy and an agreement with the Bloc Québécois to support it for 18 months, Thomas predicts the Governor General would grant it the opportunity to lead; that way, Canada would also avoid the uncertainty-and $300-million expense-of an election.
Constitutional expert Ned Franks agreed with Thomas in an interview with The Globe and Mail, citing British and Canadian and precedents, including the 1985 accord with the NDP that allowed Ontario Liberal leader David Peterson to take power after Frank Miller's minority Progressive Conservative government went down in defeat.
We'd then be sailing into "uncharted territory," says historian Desmond Morton, a professor emeritus at McGill University.
Please see the rest of this article entitled: How do Coalition Governments Work (http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/12/01/how-do-coalition-governments-work/)
=========================
In my opinion, a Canadian Coalition government would prove far more democratic and representative of the people than what we have currently have in this session of Parliament.
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Coalition Government Rallies Across Canada
St. John’s, NL
Thursday, December 4th 7 p.m. St. Theresa’s Hall
Mundy Pond Road
Mary Shortall CLC Rep
1-709-685-8105
Halifax, NS
Thursday, December 4th 5:30 p.m. - 6:30 p.m.
Maritime Hall – Halifax Forum
Windsor & Almon Street
(enter off Almon Street)
Tony Tracy, CLC Rep 1-902-223-9489
Charlottetown, PE
Thursday, December 4th 7 p.m.
Murphy’s Community Centre
Richmond Street
Jean-Claude Basque, CLC Rep 1-506-862-9182
Moncton, NB
Thursday, December 4th 7 p.m.
Moncton City Hall Front Lawn
Main Street
Dee Dee Daigle, CLC Rep 1-506-866-9661
Regina, SK
Thursday, December 4th 7 p.m.
Speakers @ 7:30 p.m.
Education Auditorium
University of Regina
David Winter, Director, 1-306-536-7703
Edmonton, AB
Thursday, December 4th 6 p.m.
Winston Churchill Square
Downtown Edmonton central
Les Steel, CLC Rep 1-780-405-2756
Winnipeg, MB
Thursday, December 4th
7 p.m. Marlborough Hotel
331 Smith Street
Ballroom (Room for 600)
Deb Jamerson, CLC Rep 1-204-781-2249
Vancouver, BC
Thursday, December 4th Doors open @ 5 p.m.
Speakers @ 6 p.m.
Vancouver Trade & Convention Centre
Ballroom “A”
David Rice, Director 1-604-230-3708
Montréal
Saturday, Dec. 6 12 noon
Complexe Guy-Favreau
Réné Levesque at Berri
Toronto, ON
Saturday, December 6th 12 p.m. - 1 p.m. City Hall
Nathan Phillips Square
Kelly Hayes, Director 1-416-725-5704
Ottawa, ON
Thursday, December 4th Noon
Parliament Hill
Bertrand Begin, CLC Rep 1-613-799-9894
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Harper Reportedly To Confirm He'll Be Asking
Governor General To Prorogue Parliament In Speech
Wednesday December 3, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-11/nov2808-harper.jpg)
It's something you see all the time in the U.S., where the president goes on air during primetime to address the American public.
You almost never see it in Canada and certainly not from a Prime Minister who normally avoids the press as if it were a Liberal convention.
And that's what makes Stephen Harper's address to the country Wednesday night so extraordinary.
The Conservative leader is apparently ready to confirm that he'll be asking Governor General Michaelle Jean to prorogue Parliament, in order to stop the alliance of the Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc from removing his minority Tories from power.
But even the request doesn't mean it's a done deal. Jean will have to decide if the united front of Stephane Dion, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe is a better choice for the country than Harper. Or she can order that a new election be held just 7 weeks after taxpayers shelled out $300 million for the last one.
If Jean does allow Parliament to be put on hold, the Tories could return as if the economic statement that caused this standoff never happened, and introduce an early budget as soon as January 7th, foiling the opponents' plans.
Citytv will broadcast Harper's address at 7pm, followed by the opposition's response at 7:30pm. Your response will follow in an hour-long special.
-------------------------
Governor General Michaelle Jean's plane just touched down on the runway from Slovenia.
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No, we have a multiple party system, and canadians vote for a policy platform that best represents their wishes for Canada. In this past election, there were 5 main candidates, 4 of which held progressive platforms, and only 1 party representing a right wing agenda. The majority of the country voted progressive, only 30% voted conservative. The progressive vote got split 4 ways. Harper won by default, but ever since taking office he has tried to govern as if he held a majority mandate, and he has rammed an agenda that the country clearly doesn't want through Parliament while every step of the way daring the opposition to do something about it if they don't like it. The opposition finally did.
No one is trying to steal power. Each one of the opposition MPs was duly elected by the citizens of Canada to sit in the House of Commons and form Parliament. What the opposition members are saying is that Harper has done nothing to address the economic crisis. The entire economic update has nothning in it for Canadians, it was a strictly partisan effort to re-inforce conservative power. They've demonstrated they are unfit to govern, and the opposition members have no confidence in their ability to do so. therefore they are requesting the ability to lead the nation out of the worldwide crisis we find ourselves in. Harper initially said "We're not changing one thing, if you don't like what we propose ...topple parliament on monday dec 1". The coalition said "ok we will". Then over the weekend Harper withdrew every single contentious item one by one, then postponed the vote til monday dec 8th. The coalition said ok, we'll vote on it on dec 8th. Now Harper wants to suspend Parliament until Jan... essentially requesting a do-over. To prorogue parliament, essentially means to suspend it, and every single motion or piece of legislation that has been proposed but not yet passed disappears as if it never existed to begin with It's like a fresh start. He's begging for a do-over. It's a wimp move. This is the real world, not a game of go fish. There should be no do-overs!
EXACTLY the answer I knew I would get from you. The old "They did it so we're going to do it" reply.
Harper wants a "Do over". The shit you come up with and the way you word it can only be learned from years of practice as a scam artist. I just love it. ;D
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Uh-oh!
Jag has been writing personal messages trying to have posts changed again! Tsk Tsk, Jag!
I thought your days of having people's posts censored were behind you? You remember how that turned out for you on the GT board, right?
;D ;D ;D ;D
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These politicians are so busy trying to fuck over one another that the needs of the citizens and tax dollars get tossed into the shitter.
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These politicians are so busy trying to fuck over one another that the needs of the citizens and tax dollars get tossed into the shitter.
That's EXACTLY why we're seeing this reaction to the Conservative economic update,
and why Harper is desperately seeking to proprogue parliament. In this day and age, at this moment in time, instead of getting on with things and facing the music, he wants to shut down parliament, doing nothing for 2 months, so he can try again, ...or spend another $300 million on another election after the last one just 6 weeks ago... an election nobody wanted but him... now he wants to waste another $300 million dollars when there is a viable government ready to go? ???
Proroguing parliament is used when the business of parliament has finished early, ...not in an economic crisis when there's still business on the table. He is showing he just wants to save his own job, not the jobs of Canadians.
Anytime someone can get all the opposition members united like this... you know they screwed up big time!
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Stephen Harper To Visit Governor General
On Thursday To Stop Coalition
Wednesday December 3, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0308-harpernew1.jpg)
It seems almost certain that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will be asking Governor General Michaelle Jean to prorogue Parliament in order to stop the coalition of Stephane Dion, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe from usurping his role as this country's leader.
His office has confirmed that the Tory boss has an appointment with Jean at 9:30am Thursday, when he'll make his unprecedented request to stop the opposition from pulling the rug out from his government.
In an historic address to the nation on Wednesday night, the P.M. insisted the entire affair is one of fundamental fairness - and democracy.
Sitting against a backdrop of two Canadian flags, the Conservative boss was alternately forceful and calm as he talked about the almost unheard of plan to depose him from power, sparked by last week's divisive economic statement.
"I pledge to you that Canada's government will use every legal means at our disposal to protect our democracy, protect our economy, and to protect Canada," he vows.
But he stopped short in his address of officially talking about going to Jean with his request, although his office confirmed the appointment about an hour later.
The Governor General returned to Ottawa on Wednesday evening, cutting short a trip to Europe to be back to make an agonizing decision to end the crisis.
She can grant Harper's request, allow the opposition alliance to proceed or call an election that will cost taxpayers another $300 million. It's a tough choice and many are wondering if she's up to making the right decision.
Harper has no doubt about what it is. "The opposition does not have the democratic right to impose a coalition with the separatists," he proclaims. "They promised it would never happen."
In his speech, the Tory boss reiterated all the accomplishments and plans of his government and what he still intends to do if the opposition allows it.
And if they don't?
"Let me be very clear," he states emphatically. "Canada's government cannot enter into a power-sharing coalition with a separatist party. At a time of global economic instability, Canada's government must stand unequivocally for keeping the country together.
"At a time like this, a coalition with separatists cannot help Canada. And the opposition does not have the democratic right to impose a coalition with the separatists they promised voters would never happen."
Although it's a frequent practice for U.S. presidents to request primetime television to address a nation, it almost never happens in Canada.
Harper's speech was expected to last some 10 minutes, but he was brief, going on for only about three.
It follows another extraordinary day in Ottawa, where a war of words got louder and the Tories unveiled yet another new strategy in the war on their foes - invoke the name of high profile Quebec sovereignty supporter Jacques Parizeau and use the word 'separatist' as often as possible - a reference to Dion and Layton's deal with Duceppe for his support.
"This government will stand against the separatist coalition!' screamed Harper during Question Period. "They must walk away from this deal with Jacques Parizeau and the separatists!
"If the Liberal party continues down this path, those images will never be forgotten by the Canadian people!"
Layton charged back. "Why does the prime minister care more about his own job than allowing the parliament to save the jobs of Canadians?" he demands.
"Just for the record, the Bloc Quebecois has supported this Conservative government at least 140 times, including 14 confidence votes," added Liberal MP Ralph Goodale.
Stockwell Day, the Minister of International Trade, fielded that fastball. "My DNA would never allow me to do a coalition with socialists and my heart would never allow me to do a deal with separatists."
The word 'separatists' came out of the mouths of every Tory MP who rose to speak and the term continued outside of the House, where the tense atmosphere continued.
"I think it's cheap politics," claims Liberal MP Ruby Dhalla. "This is really about the economy. It is about democracy."
On Thursday, that 'democracy' is expected to play out at the office of the Governor General. What she decides involves the weight - and now the wait - of an entire nation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prime Minister Stephen Harper's address to the nation about the coalition
Text Of Harper's Speech
"Good evening,
"Canadians take pride in our history as one of the world's oldest continuous democracies. During the past 141 years, political parties have emerged and disappeared, leaders have come and gone, and governments have changed.
"Constant in every case, however, is the principle that Canada's Government has always been chosen by the people. And following the light of this democratic tradition, Canadians have built one of the most peaceful and prosperous countries the world has ever known - a land of hope and opportunity that inspires others around the globe, and has drawn millions as new immigrants to our country.
"On October 14, for the 40th time since Confederation, Canadians voted in a national general election. We are honoured that you returned our Government to office with a strengthened mandate to lead this great country through the most difficult global economic crisis in many decades. Canada's Government is acting to deal with the crisis, right now.
- "Further personal and business tax reductions are coming into effect;
- We are doubling spending on infrastructure;
- We are ensuring credit for businesses and consumers by injecting liquidity into financial markets;
- We are helping seniors who rely on RRIF income;
- And securing pension plans.
"We are implementing the Automotive Innovation Fund and, working with the Government of Ontario, we are undertaking due diligence on any further requests for assistance from the auto industry. We are increasing support and incentives for manufacturers, the forestry sector, and others to pursue business opportunities. We are implementing agreements with the provinces to enhance labour mobility.
"And, next month on January 27, we will bring in a budget which will contain additional measures to boost Canada's economy, while making sure we avoid a long term structural deficit in Canada's finances.
"In preparation for that budget we are consulting widely with Canadians, meeting with premiers of our provinces and territories, and working in collaboration with our international partners in G20. The Minister of Finance will be consulting with the business community and interest groups.
"We are consulting with, and expect to hear more from, the opposition parties in Parliament. We hope they bring forward specific proposals - we have invited them to do so. In fact, we have already changed some of our proposals to meet their concerns.
"Unfortunately, even before the Government has brought forward its budget, and only seven weeks after a general election, the opposition wants to overturn the results of that election.
"Instead of an immediate budget, they propose a new coalition which includes the party in Parliament whose avowed goal is to break up the country. Let me be very clear: Canada's Government cannot enter into a power-sharing coalition with a separatist party.
"At a time of global economic instability, Canada's Government must stand unequivocally for keeping the country together. At a time like this, a coalition with the separatists cannot help Canada. And the Opposition does not have the democratic right to impose a coalition with the separatists they promised voters would never happen.
"The Opposition is attempting to impose this deal without your say, without your consent, and without your vote. This is no time for backroom deals with the separatists; it is the time for Canada's government to focus on the economy and specifically on measures for the upcoming budget. This is a pivotal moment in our history.
"We Canadians are the inheritors of a great legacy, and it is our duty to strengthen and protect it for the generations still to come. Tonight, I pledge to you that Canada's Government will use every legal means at our disposal to protect our democracy, to protect our economy, and to protect Canada.
"Thank you, and goodnight."
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Dion To Harper: Facing A Vote Of Confidence
Is The Right Thing To Do
Wednesday December 3, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0308-DIONADDRESS.jpg)
It probably won't surprise you to know that Stephane Dion, the would-be Prime Minister-in-waiting, wasn't impressed by what his arch rival Stephen Harper had to say on Wednesday night.
The outgoing Liberal leader responded to the Conservative leader's rare primetime address by trying to explain the motive of his coalition colleagues, Jack Layton and Gilles Duceppe, insisting they aren't involved in a 'power grab.'
He maintains he's simply trying to take Canada through some rough economic seas, while the unfit captain of the ship of state is calling it a mutiny.
"Stephen Harper still refuses to propose measures to stimulate the Canadian economy," he insists. "His mini-budget last week demonstrated that his priority is partisanship and settling ideological scores ...
"The Harper Conservatives have lost the confidence of the majority of Members of the House of Commons. In our democracy, in our parliamentary system, in our Constitution, this means that they have lost the right to govern.
"Canadians don't want another election, they want Parliamentarians to work together. That's our job. Canadians want their MPs to put aside partisanship and focus on the economy."
Dion says all sides have to work together to get through the tough times, and it doesn't matter if they're socialists, conservatives or even those who would take the country in another direction, like the Bloc Quebecois.
He also notes even the Green Party is behind the coalition plan.
And he reminds voters that coalitions aren't all that unusual and that they work in all areas of the world - and Canada should be no exception.
With that in mind, he's also made his own appeal to Michaelle Jean. "Earlier today I wrote Her Excellency the Governor General," he reveals. "I respectfully asked her to refuse any request by the Prime Minister to suspend Parliament until he has demonstrated to her that he still commands the confidence of the House.
"If Mr. Harper wants to suspend Parliament he must first face a vote of confidence. In our Canada, the government is accountable for its decisions and actions in Parliament. In our Canada, the government derives its legitimacy from an elected Parliament."
He concluded by promising the Canadian people that if he's allowed to serve as Prime Minister, "I will work day and night to combat this economic crisis, to do what it takes to minimize its effects on Canadians, to protect jobs and to create jobs.
"I will serve my country until my time to serve is at an end."
The question remains whether that 'end' will be later - or right now. And only Jean has the answer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liberal leader Stéphane Dion responds to Stephen Harper's statement to the nation
regarding the push for a coalition government.
Text of Dion's Address
"Canada is facing the impacts of the global economic crisis. Our economy is on the verge of a recession. Canadians are worried about losing their jobs, their homes, their savings. Every economist in the country is predicting increased job losses and deficits for the next few years.
"The federal government has a duty to act and help Canadians weather this storm.
"Stephen Harper still refuses to propose measures to stimulate the Canadian economy. His mini-budget last week demonstrated that his priority is partisanship and settling ideological scores.
"The Harper Conservatives have lost the confidence of the majority of Members of the House of Commons. In our democracy, in our parliamentary system, in our Constitution, this means that they have lost the right to govern.
"Canadians don't want another election, they want Parliamentarians to work together. That's our job. Canadians want their MPs to put aside partisanship and focus on the economy.
"The Liberal Party and the New Democratic Party are ready to do this. Jack Layton and I have agreed to form a coalition government to address the impact of the global economic crisis. The Bloc has agreed to support this government on matters of confidence. The Green Party has also agreed to support it.
"Our system of government was not born with Canada. It is ancient. There are rules that govern it and conventions that guide it.
"Coalitions are normal and current practice in many parts of the world and are able to work very successfully. They work with simple ingredients: consensus, goodwill and cooperation. Consensus is a great Canadian value. In this spirit, we Liberals have joined in a coalition with the NDP. We have done so because we believe we can achieve more for Canadians through cooperation than through conflict. We believe we can better solve the challenges facing Canada through teamwork and collaboration, rather than blind partisan feuding and hostility.
"Our coalition is a consensus to govern with a well-defined program to address the most important issue facing the country: the economy. It is a program to preserve and create jobs and to stimulate the economy in all regions of the country. The elements of the program need to be spelled out and this is what we will do if we are allowed to present it to the House of Commons.
"We share the frustration Canadians have about a political crisis that has been allowed to take prominence over the more important economic challenges we face. Elsewhere in the world, leaders are working to cope with the recession, to bring forward the kinds of investments that will help their people and their economies. Politicians are working together. Rivals are working together.
"Mr. Harper's solution is to extend that crisis by avoiding a simple vote. By suspending Parliament and continuing the confusion. We offer a better way. We say settle it now and let's get to work on the people's business. A vote is scheduled for next Monday. Let it proceed. And let us all show maturity in accepting the result with grace and the larger task of serving Canadians in mind.
"Within one week, a new direction will be established, a tone and focus will be set. We will gather with leaders of industry and labour to work, unlike the Conservatives, in a collaborative, but urgent manner to protect jobs.
"To stimulate the economy and create good well-paid jobs we will not only accelerate already planned investments, but invest significantly more in our country's infrastructure. Helping our cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal or Halifax build modern, efficient public transit systems.
"Investing in our rural communities so that cherished ways of life are protected for future generations. We can stimulate our economy through investments in clean energy, water and our gateways.
"We will invest in our manufacturing, forestry and automotive sectors to protect and create jobs. We believe that in these tough economic times the government has a role to play to ensure that those who are doing their share for the prosperity of our country can continue to provide for the wellbeing of their families.
"In times like this our compassion as a country is tested. We believe it is imperative that the government offers Canadians who have already lost their job, whether in the factories of South Western Ontario or the forests of Eastern Quebec and British Columbia, the support they need to live in dignity and develop new skills.
"That is precisely what we intend to provide.
"Earlier today I wrote Her Excellency the Governor General. I respectfully asked her to refuse any request by the Prime Minister to suspend Parliament until he has demonstrated to her that he still commands the confidence of the House.
"If Mr. Harper wants to suspend Parliament he must first face a vote of confidence.
"In our Canada, the government is accountable for its decisions and actions in Parliament.
"In our Canada, the government derives its legitimacy from an elected Parliament.
"Allow me to end tonight on a personal note. If I am entrusted with the role of Prime Minister for the next months that I have left to serve, I will work day and nights to combat this economic crisis, to do what it takes to minimize its effects on Canadians, to protect jobs and to create jobs.
"I will serve my country until my time to serve is at an end."
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Layton Claims Coalition Will Give Canadians Hope
Wednesday December 3, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0308-layton.jpg)
"He's trying to turn an economic crisis into a political one."
That's how NDP leader Jack Layton is characterizing Stephen Harper's actions, as he fights against a coalition plan to take over his government.
Layton was the last of the three main party leaders to speak on Wednesday night after yet another amazing day on Parliament Hill.
In what's increasingly sounding like the same political rhetoric heard during an election campaign, Layton accused Harper of putting his own interests ahead of the country by clinging to power when Canada faces an economic abyss.
"He seems to be more interested in his job than in protecting your job," he chides in a rebuttal to the P.M.'s historic speech Wednesday night. "Now that's simply wrong."
Layton knows that the Conservatives have painted his partnership efforts with Stephane Dion and Gilles Duceppe as an undemocratic, separatist-supporting act of villainy. But he insists it's the exact opposite.
"The opposition parties acted together with a common objective to give hope back to the people and help them get through these difficult economic times," he assures. "For the first time the majority of the parties chosen by the people have set aside their differences ... for the good of Canada. And for the good of every Canadian."
He worries what will happen if Governor General Michaelle Jean grants his imminent request to end the Parliamentary session early.
"Every Canadian will be silenced, because this House will be not permitted to speak," he points out. "We will have a Conservative government without legitimacy. At the time of an economic crisis. That doesn't have to happen. Because this is a remarkable moment in Canadian history."
That last statement may be the only one on which both sides can agree.
NDP Leader Jack Layton responds to Harper's address to the nation on a push for a coalition
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Hello everyone,
All of the chips are on the table. This grassroots movement does not have the budget of the Conservative party. Instead, we have each other. We can cut through the Conservative counter-offensive to make sure that the voices of over 60% of Canadians rallying for a progressive coalition are heard! There are 10,000 of you on this listserv. So many, that this message may not reach some of you until after Harper's message. So - this message assumes he does not resign and let the coalition govern.
We need everything you have to reach our goals for this week: winning the struggle in the media for the hearts and minds of Canadians uncertain about a coalition and showing the progressive parties that Canadians support them. In addition to usual - letters to the editor, call in radio, forwarding this message - we need you to:
Sign up 5 Friends
We are going to submit the petition on Friday and it needs to be absolutely massive. In order to increase our already impressive numbers on our petition, we are challenging everyone on the mailing list to get 5 of their friends to sign the petition. The petition is at: http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/ (http://www.progressivecoalition.ca)
You can email them the direct link by clicking on the "share" button at www.progressivecoalition.ca/form.php (http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/form.php), then clicking on "email". Alternatively, you could forward them this message!
Join a rally, Bring a Petition!
There are a variety of rallies happening on that day. They are listed on our facebook event page, www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=55449301160 (http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=55449301160), and on our website, www.progressivecoalition.ca (http://www.progressivecoalition.ca) (Under the "Show your Support" link), and others at www.makeparliamentwork.ca (http://www.makeparliamentwork.ca). These rallies are great time to collect additional signatures for our petition, which we are aiming to present to the Leaders of the Opposition on Friday.
If you are attending any of the rallies posted, or any other events, please bring along a copy of the paper petition, which can be found at the following address: www.progressivecoalition.ca/petition.pdf (http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/petition.pdf) Please get signatures only from those who have not already signed our online petition at progressivecoalition.ca. After you have collected the signatures, please add them to this spreadsheet: progressivecoalition.ca/petitioninput.xls (http://www.progressivecoalition.ca/petitioninput.xls) , and send the completed excel files to events@progressivecoalition.ca .
Light a Candle for the Coalition!
We want to spark a new spirit of cooperation in Parliament.
On Wednesday night at 8PM, light a candle in front of a street-facing window and turn off the light in the room for 20 minutes. (Make sure to keep the candle away from anything that can catch fire!)
On Thursday, at 5PM we are organizing Candles for a Coalition events across the country. We are going to take pictures and show Canadians from coast to coast support a coalition. If you can't attend a major event invite some of your friends over to light candles or do it yourself. Send us pictures!
Bring your own candle! And spread the word!
Rally locations:
VICTORIA
Candles for a Coalition – Thursday Dec 4
5:00 PM, Location: Hillside and Douglas Street
VANCOUVER
Candles for a Coalition - Thursday Dec 4
5:15, in Front of the Trades and Convention Centre
Will join the Make Parliment Work Rally afterwards
GUELPH
Candles for a Coalition – Thursday Dec 4
7:00pm, St. George's Square
GUELPH RALLY
Candles for a Coalition – Saturday, December 6th
12:00pm St. George's Square
Stratford, Ontario
Candles for Canada - Thur Dec 4
5-7pm March to City Hall
Meet Ontario St between Downie and Waterloo Streets
Walk to city hall at 7pm
GREAT VILLAGE, Nova Scotia
Candles for Coalition in the Village!
When: 6 pm, Thursday, December 4th
Where: 33 Lornevale Road
Cheers,
Canadians for a Progressive Coalition
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At the risk of being pursued by David Letterman's lawyers for copyright infringement, here is:
The top 10 reasons why Stephen Harper must be toppled:
10. We wont have to see sweater boy and his demonic eyes on the news every night.
9. The Globes Jane Taber will stop writing gushing articles about Laureen.
8. No more businessmen will be guests hosts on CBC Radios The Current.
7. The military won't highjack Canadian professional sports events to trick our kids into becoming Taliban fodder.
6. Stockwell Day will have more time to go jet skiing on Lake Okanagan.
5. Maxime Bernier will try to become leader of the Conservative party.
4. Fraser Institute fellows won't get calls returned from the PMO anymore.
3. Elizabeth May can retire from politics knowing that her mission in life has been accomplished: Harper is no longer prime minister.
2. Stephane Dion will learn to speak better English.
1. Its going to be fun watching Harper pack his boxes and load up the moving vans before vacating 24 Sussex Drive in the middle of winter. ;D
One Conservative Canadian in favour of proportional representation speaks out on the coalition
(he's also the creator of the above top 10 list)
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The ugly side of Jean's job
Craig Offman, National Post
December 03, 2008
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/He_Started_it.jpg)
Gary Clement on the crisis in Ottawa, cartoon: Gary Clement/National Post
As Governor-General Michaëlle Jean returns on Wednesday to settle a once-in-a-lifetime political crisis, this unelected official possesses a Solomonic power, one that will determine the country's fate.
With all the dysfunction on Parliament Hill in the past five years, and certainly in the past five days, the position of governor-general has arguably inched past the requisite motions of ribbon-cutting and rubber-stamping. It is now floating in the more foggy, but much more influential and problematic, realm of what is called reserve power, or a head of state's discretion to reject the advice of a prime minister.
Detractors may see this process as a latter-day version of kingmaking, while supporters say the options before Ms. Jean call on her using the full range of the office's power.
Should she postpone the parliament's business, allow a coalition of erstwhile rivals to seize power from the Conservatives, or dissolve parliament and call an election?
One leading constitutional expert who has advised Ms. Jean's predecessors offered another option -- albeit with a royal flourish: "In 1931, there was a world economic crises, worse than the one we're in," explained Ted McWhinney. "And King George V–who was not an imaginative man–said we've got to have coalition government of all parties, and he formed them."
While leading Liberals such as Pierre Trudeau and John Manley used to question the job's usefulness, the recent spate of minority governments that have wobbled into power have begun to change all that.
In fact, the role might be more pivotal, and more controversial, than ever.
Governor-General watchers say that Ms. Jean has done an impeccable job since being appointed by Paul Martin in 2005. In Canada, she courted little controversy when she allowed Stephen Harper to call an election last fall, despite his promises to hold off. She has also proven to be an engaging emissary abroad.
Yet she has taken a few knocks for being too active in her role by dismissing sovereigntists and intimating support for the war in Afghanistan.
"Whatever she does, she will be criticized heavily," said Louis Massicotte, a political science professor at Laval University.
Experts say that Ms. Jean's quandary is unprecedented in Canadian history, yet still there are parallels from other countries to draw from, cautionary tales about symbolic heads of state who tried to stretch their job descriptions. While they do have a certain amount of discretion when governments are threatened, they have to act in the public's best interest of stable government.
Yet historians of the Westminster System -- a parliamentary-style government with a figurehead nominally in charge -- could bring up Sir John Kerr of Australia as an example of the office gone awry.
In 1975, Mr. Kerr, the Governor-General at the time, dismissed the government and replaced it with the opposition, which then called an election soon after. The set of events led to accusations of interventionism and collusion, precipitating to the greatest constitutional crisis in the country's history and Mr. Kerr's ostracism from political life.
Reports had rivals still bickering over the event, called the Dismissal, at his funeral in 1991.
In Ms. Jean's case, her major decision will mark a sharp departure from her typical duties, which are called royal prerogatives, usually performed at the prime minister's request. They include signing treaties, passport issuance, or the formal appointments of Cabinet ministers.
But then comes the new set of circumstances, in which the Liberals have tag-teamed with the New Democrats and the Bloc Québécois to form a coalition. In order to let them take power, Ms. Jean must gain assurances from this motley alliance that they plan to stay together for the long haul. Or else she could send Canadians back to the polls, or call off parliament for at least another month, which is what Prime Minister Harper might request.
If she rejects his request, she'd be flexing what is called her reserve of power.
"These are things that the governor-general or monarch can do without advice of prime minister," explained Ned Franks, a noted constitutional expert. "In other words, 99.99% of the time, the things a governor general does in a constitutional-legal sense is on advice of the prime minister. We're in 0.001% territory."
There are a few examples of the exercise of reserve power, mostly notably in 1979, when Prime Minister Joe Clark asked Ed Shreyer to dissolve parliament, and rather than instantly agreeing, the Governor General made the Tory leader wait for up to an hour until he gave his verdict.
No formal advising body guides the head of state to make these kinds of critical decisions.
When Adrienne Clarkson faced the possible fall of Paul Martin's government, she spoke to a range of legal experts. "She did a pretty thorough job of it," said Mr. Franks. "But now we get to Michaelle Jean, who was in Europe when all of this came up, and she has to decide by Monday on whatever has to be decided."
He added that the first person he'd call if he were in Ms. Jean's position would be her fellow CBC alumnus, Ms. Clarkson.
While the Privy Council might offer its services, Ms. Jean might also call on the constitutional experts, friends, or her predecessors for their confidential assistance. "She might call on her hairdresser. Louis XI of France said that the man whom he most trusted was his barber," said Ted McWhinney, who also advises other Westminister-style countries.
Mr. McWhinney cautioned, however, that she could not seek advice from the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, who acts as her deputy when is abroad. "The Chief Justice might have to rule in the event that a court case is established [against her]. So she's really in a bind."
He thinks that the role is "outdated," pointing out that other countries such as India and Ireland have done much to further democratize it.
Ireland, for example, directly elects its president, or titular head of state.
When asked if recent events might bring about change for Canada, however, he sounded a little less sanguine. "Maybe, but it will probably take 17 years."
It's all up to Governor General Michaelle Jean
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Stephen Harper is in a panic now that the Liberals and New Democrats have banded together with the Bloc Quebecois - doing the very thing Harper himself threatened Paul Martin with four years ago. The Conservatives have no plan in place and only now have decided to work to create a responsible budget for the future of our country in very uncertain times.
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He's NOT a Rebel ...no no no,
He's NOT a Rebel ...no no no, to me e-e-e-eee ;D
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Sex Bomb Sex Bomb
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LOL
The absurdity is two parties with 106 combined seats wanting permission to replace a single party with 143 seats. There is an "agreement" with the Bloc.
If I'm the GG I deny this request. This coalition has no hope of success without the BQ. Either the Bloc is listed as an official member of the coalition with representation in Cabinet, or the coalition is not viable except in a nudge, nudge, wink, wink kind of way.
If Dion and Layton want to get in bed with the seperatists, they shouldn't be allowed to pretend its something else.
Oh, and Jag, please stop messaging the mods to try and have them delete my posts. I know how you despise free speech(unless its your own) but thats not how things work here. Cheers.
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LOL
The absurdity is two parties with 106 combined seats wanting permission to replace a single party with 143 seats. There is an "agreement" with the Bloc.
If I'm the GG I deny this request. This coalition has no hope of success without the BQ. Either the Bloc is listed as an official member of the coalition with representation in Cabinet, or the coalition is not viable except in a nudge, nudge, wink, wink kind of way.
It is two parties with the support of 2 other parties representing 63% of canadians representing 165 seats.
BTW - That first cartoon was cute! :D
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Still having the mods censor my posts, eh Jag? You can say whatever you want, but nobody else can? Fucking pathetic.
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It's all up to the woman dubbed "Le petite Reine du Canada" (Canada's little Queen) to decide:
Do Harper's conservatives get thrown out, with the Liberals heading a coalition to form the new government?
Or will Canadians be forced to spend another $300 million dollars for another election nobody wants?
Methinks, we're getting a coalition headed by the Liberal Party of Canada. (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/yipee.gif)
BREAKING NEWS: ...Michaelle Jean has cut short her trip to Europe and is rushing back to Ottawa
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/an574.gif)
The Liberals are taking over!
The Liberals are taking over!
Neener, neener, neeee-ner!
It's all up to this woman now
LMFAO!!! She just cockblocked your Liberal/NDP/Bloc Coalition! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!
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this whole thing is bullshit.
so we have an election up here a few months back and voted the conservatives into power(yes a minority). but still the people spoke and said they wanted the conservatives in power. now the liberals and ndp are saying f*** you voters, your say doesnt count. its like were some 3rd world country where someone tries to overthrow the ruling government. pathetic.
and now who do they want to put in charge???? Dion. the man who just lead his party to its worst election result ever and is being forced to resign as party leader in the next few months. ya thats a good move.
yes i voted conservative... but i wouldnt care which party was in power. this shit isnt right. i thought canada was a democracy where "the people" vote/choose who they want to lead their country.
thats my rant. we'll see what happens at the end of january
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hilarious, the ole jagmeister got her ass owned by her own "petite princess" or whatever retarded nickname she goes by. typical liberal whiners. guess what, propping up the auto industry ain't gonna make people buy more cars, case you haven't heard there's a recession and no amount of money down a sinkhole is gonna fix it anytime soon
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LMFAO!!! She just cockblocked your Liberal/NDP/Bloc Coalition! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/weeping.gif)
Sorry Tapper, I'm too busy crying my eyes out and licking my wounds to hear you laughing.
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this whole thing is bullshit.
so we have an election up here a few months back and voted the conservatives into power(yes a minority). but still the people spoke and said they wanted the conservatives in power. now the liberals and ndp are saying f*** you voters, your say doesnt count. its like were some 3rd world country where someone tries to overthrow the ruling government. pathetic.
and now who do they want to put in charge???? Dion. the man who just lead his party to its worst election result ever and is being forced to resign as party leader in the next few months. ya thats a good move.
yes i voted conservative... but i wouldnt care which party was in power. this shit isnt right. i thought canada was a democracy where "the people" vote/choose who they want to lead their country.
thats my rant. we'll see what happens at the end of january
Blinky in Canada's parliamentary democracy, a minority goverment governs only with the consent, approval and confidence of the people represented by their duly elected members of the house of commons. Harper has lost that. That is how he got to be PM in the first place by joining up with the Bloc, and the NDP to call a non-confidence vote.
When I get over my disappointment, I will realize that there is a silver lining in this cloud:
Harper and the entire Conservative caucus know they had better watch their asses and govern more to the centre. They get their do-over, and there no misunderstanding. They now know they need to take effective action to address Canada's economic needs or they will be toast. The opposition has had enough of their bully tactics and will fight back on behalf of the 63% of Canadians who DIDN'T vote for Harper's Conservatives.
If the Jan budget addresses the very real needs of Canada, the progressive parties get what we want for Canada, ...and the Conservatives can get away with excusing it to their base saying "we had to do this or the opposition would have toppled us." Either scenario is a win/ win for progressives who represent over 63% of Canadians. The really disgusting part is nothing is being done in the meantime, ...and for those Canadians losing jobs in the meantime, ...that's not a good thing. When the going gets tough...ACTION & LEADERSHIP is what is needed, not running away and hiding like a scared little child.
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Coalition Leaders Angry That Harper Has
Temporarily Won The Game of Survivor: Ottawa
Thursday December 4, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
In the game of Survivor: Ottawa, Stephen Harper hasn't been voted off the island.
The judge in this high stakes political game of outwit, outplay and outlast was Governor General Michaelle Jean, who granted the Prime Minister's request to prorogue Parliament until January, in order to prevent a coalition of opposition parties from taking over in the House of Commons.
The other contestants in this drama can't say they're especially surprised by the outcome - no Governor General has ever refused such a request from a Prime Minister - but they are disappointed.
They believe Harper has lost the confidence of the House by not addressing the faltering economy, and is buying himself time to avoid an inevitable fate - the day his minority folds.
While Harper has pledged to "work together" with his foes, they're convinced this is a dark day in Canadian history.
"We must realize the enormity of what has happened here today," Liberal Leader Stephane Dion responds. "For the first time in the history of Canada, the prime minister of Canada is running away from the Parliament of Canada."
NDP chief Jack Layton accuses the Conservative leader of establishing an Iron Curtain around the nation's capital. "What he's doing right now is trying to lock the door of Parliament so that the elected people cannot speak and cannot throw him out of office, so he can protect his job," he charges. "And now he's coming forward with an element of contrition, and saying 'well, maybe now I'll listen to you.' Well, I don't think Canadians trust him."
As to the offer of working together, Layton insists the coalition is just delayed - not dead. "If he brings forward some interesting ideas in the weeks to come, we can take those good ideas and adopt them as part of the coalition government."
The Bloc Quebecois's Gilles Duceppe, whose presence in the alliance deal has upset Conservatives and many voters, calls Jean's ruling an 'immoral decision.' "We don't believe him," he fumes. "We don't have confidence in him."
The opposition may have to take a month off and lick their wounds, denied the expected confidence vote that had been expected for next Monday. But while they're down for now, they're not out. Harper has pledged to bring forth an early budget when what's sure to be a raucous Parliament finally returns on January 26th.
Budgets are traditionally matters of confidence and the opposition will still get their chance to vote him off the island when the Survivor: Parliament reality show returns without an immunity challenge early in the new year.
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hhahaha oh Judi...I see you are still posting about Canadian politics on a bodybuilding msg board.....oh brother...
so whats new and exciting? (other than this nonsense?)
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Blinky in Canada's parliamentary democracy, a minority goverment governs only with the consent, approval and confidence of the people represented by their duly elected members of the house of commons. Harper has lost that. That is how he got to be PM in the first place by joining up with the Bloc, and the NDP to call a non-confidence vote.
When I get over my disappointment, I will realize that there is a silver lining in this cloud:
Harper and the entire Conservative caucus know they had better watch their asses and govern more to the centre. They get their do-over, and there no misunderstanding. They now know they need to take effective action to address Canada's economic needs or they will be toast. The opposition has had enough of their bully tactics and will fight back on behalf of the 63% of Canadians who DIDN'T vote for Harper's Conservatives.
If the Jan budget addresses the very real needs of Canada, the progressive parties get what we want for Canada, ...and the Conservatives can get away with excusing it to their base saying "we had to do this or the opposition would have toppled us." Either scenario is a win/ win for progressives who represent over 63% of Canadians. The really disgusting part is nothing is being done in the meantime, ...and for those Canadians losing jobs in the meantime, ...that's not a good thing. When the going gets tough...ACTION & LEADERSHIP is what is needed, not running away and hiding like a scared little child.
ya i get how our weird system works...but i dont agree with it. and i think if the opposition actually cared about "canadians" and their vote, they wouldnt pull this shit. they would try and find a more reasonable way to deal with the fact that they lost the election. cause that what this is really about. they(liberals & ndp) are saying that they are doing this cause of what harper has/hasnt done over the last few weeks. but they have been planning this "take over" since the election.
as for the 'running away and hiding'..... i dont know much about it but apparently the GG thinks its a good idea. and if youre watching the news today it seems like it might be the right thing. there are liberals coming out now saying that they dont agree with the coalition and even a couple criticizing Dion publicly and saying he should be gone now. obviously there is some disagreement amongst themselves about this coalition. time away might be good.
and on a side note and not as important(but i do find funny). did u see Dion's recorded speech yesterday after Harpers? it was a joke...HAHA
he looked nervous throughout the whole thing and it looked like he filmed it at his moms house infront of one of her bookshelves. plus took more than an hour to get it to air. even many from his party said it was inexcusable. this man should not be leading canada for any length of time
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ya i get how our weird system works...but i dont agree with it. and i think if the opposition actually cared about "canadians" and their vote, they wouldnt pull this shit. they would try and find a more reasonable way to deal with the fact that they lost the election. cause that what this is really about. they(liberals & ndp) are saying that they are doing this cause of what harper has/hasnt done over the last few weeks. but they have been planning this "take over" since the election.
as for the 'running away and hiding'..... i dont know much about it but apparently the GG thinks its a good idea. and if youre watching the news today it seems like it might be the right thing. there are liberals coming out now saying that they dont agree with the coalition and even a couple criticizing Dion publicly and saying he should be gone now. obviously there is some disagreement amongst themselves about this coalition. time away might be good.
and on a side note and not as important(but i do find funny). did u see Dion's recorded speech yesterday after Harpers? it was a joke...HAHA
he looked nervous throughout the whole thing and it looked like he filmed it at his moms house infront of one of her bookshelves. plus took more than an hour to get it to air. even many from his party said it was inexcusable. this man should not be leading canada for any length of time
All good points...it's ridiculous and disgraceful...The liberals have the worst showing in the history of their party and this is the only thing they have left. I know in the end it will backfire....how can you co-exist with another party that promotes seperatism and a communist Jack Layton?
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LOL
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I know in the end it will backfire....how can you co-exist with another party that promotes seperatism and a communist Jack Layton?
The very fact that such a coalition could even form is indicative of just how badly Harper has screwed up.
And it will backfire. As more and more Canadians realize what Harper has done in shutting down Parliament in order to avoid a vote. Harper has made every contentious proposal one of non-confidence in order to ram it through. Well, ...now he wants to wimp out, suspend parliament and not have the vote, ...it will backfire, ...on the Conservatives. All he has done is potentially stalled the inevitable, ...while threatened Canadians sit in limbo.
When a patient is sick and in need of medical attention, a physician needs to act, ...not sit around and do nothing for 2 months hoping the patient doesn't die in the meantime. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, ...but Harper isn't even offereing any treatment, let alone a cure. Canada, and Canadians are in a uniquely advantageous position to weather the economic storm, ...provided ACTION is taken NOW! not 2 months from now.
Chyros time is better than Chronos time.
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Unions Infuriated By Governor General's
Conservative Lifeline
Thursday December 4, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0408-caw.jpg)
They heard about the decision from Ottawa and they hung their heads.
But it wasn't members of the Opposition parties thinking about what might have been.
These were reps from the major labour unions, who now fear what will become of their members as the economy and their job prospects take a dive and the government takes a holiday.
The news that the Governor General had agreed to prorogue Parliament for seven weeks may have put smiles on the faces of Conservatives, but for those seeking aid to the rapidly melting auto industry, it was the worst result possible.
They accuse Harper of not caring about the industry and the thousands of jobs associated with it. And they were desperate for the coalition to win, after the three leaders promised immediate help.
"Quite frankly, this prime minister has given those communities and our workers, their members, the back of the hat," gripes Dave Coles of the Communications, Energy and Paper Workers.
Ken Lewenza of the Canadian Auto Workers bowed his head in disappointment (top left) after learning of the announcement. "I think it's a very sad day for democracy in Canada," he proclaims, the pain evident on his face.
"I would say to the Governor-General today with the greatest amount of respect, that you made a very poor decision on behalf of Canadians," Coles chides.
The Tories are expected to hand down a budget in late January, but the union leaders say that's far too late for many of their workers.
Still, there was some good news for a few in the industry Thursday. Toyota opened its new plant in Woodstock, complete with dignitaries from the home office in Japan, Premier Dalton McGuinty and Federal Industry Minister Tony Clement - but not the Prime Minister, who was getting his request answered in Ottawa.
It's one of the few bright spots for autoworkers, with 1,200 new jobs and hundreds of other spin-off positions created as a result of the plant's presence.
But experts concede it's the rare silver lining in an automotive sky filled with clouds. "Unions had their peak employment at 1.6 million workers," reveals industry analyst Dennis Desrosiers. "And today it's under 400,000. So unions are going the way of the dodo bird."
But it's the Conservatives who the unions want to see extinct. Thanks to what happened at Rideau Hall on Thursday, that's not going to happen - at least for the next month.
The last few seconds of audio in that clip were cut off. Jack Layton says:
"I cannot have confidence in a Prime Minister that would throw the locks on the door
of this place, ...knowing that he is about to lose a vote in the house of commons"
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On the bright side, ...this crisis for workers can spell opportunity for others.
There'll be alot of people looking for a 'Plan B', ...and there are those of us in a position to give it to them. (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/whistle.gif)
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The very fact that such a coalition could even form is indicative of just how badly Harper has screwed up.
And it will backfire. As more and more Canadians realize what Harper has done in shutting down Parliament in order to avoid a vote. Harper has made every contentious proposal one of non-confidence in order to ram it through. Well, ...now he wants to wimp out, suspend parliament and not have the vote, ...it will backfire, ...on the Conservatives. All he has done is potentially stalled the inevitable, ...while threatened Canadians sit in limbo.
you actually think the voters will be more upset with Harper(conservatives) for suspending parliment a few weeks early than they will be with the liberals and ndp for pulling this shit??
think again. look at the results of the polls that have just come out.
44% said they would still want harper...which is up from 37% at the election
liberals 24% down from 26%...... and the ndp at 14% down from 18%
...it will backfire, ...on the Conservatives.
looks like its backfiring on the liberals and ndp
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/parliament-poll.html
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The very fact that such a coalition could even form is indicative of just how badly Harper has screwed up.
And it will backfire. As more and more Canadians realize what Harper has done in shutting down Parliament in order to avoid a vote. Harper has made every contentious proposal one of non-confidence in order to ram it through. Well, ...now he wants to wimp out, suspend parliament and not have the vote, ...it will backfire, ...on the Conservatives. All he has done is potentially stalled the inevitable, ...while threatened Canadians sit in limbo.
When a patient is sick and in need of medical attention, a physician needs to act, ...not sit around and do nothing for 2 months hoping the patient doesn't die in the meantime. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, ...but Harper isn't even offereing any treatment, let alone a cure. Canada, and Canadians are in a uniquely advantageous position to weather the economic storm, ...provided ACTION is taken NOW! not 2 months from now.
Chyros time is better than Chronos time.
Judi, maybe I'm way off here...but I'm beginning to think you are still a little bitter about the who Canadians chose to be their prime minister?
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Judi, maybe I'm way off here...but I'm beginning to think you are still a little bitter about the who Canadians chose to be their prime minister?
No not at all. I completely understood his appeal, ...though I do not trust the man.
He has made many decisions the opposition have vilified him for, ...yet I was in complete agreement with him on,
...however, he has clearly demonstrated to me that he IS completely unfit to govern Canada.
I'm not bitter. I'm saddened he has been able to get away with as much as he has been allowed to get away with.
And I wish the Liberals will have their convention already so that Ignatieff who looks like the most likely leader can get on with the business of guiding Canada forward.
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you actually think the voters will be more upset with Harper(conservatives) for suspending parliment a few weeks early than they will be with the liberals and ndp for pulling this shit??
think again. look at the results of the polls that have just come out.
44% said they would still want harper...which is up from 37% at the election
liberals 24% down from 26%...... and the ndp at 14% down from 18%
looks like its backfiring on the liberals and ndp
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/12/04/parliament-poll.html
No, I do believe it will backfire on the conservatives, ...once Canadians have the ability to make sense of what went down.
This thing all happened so quickly, and Harper ALONG WITH THE MEDIA has been spinning it as "a betrayal of democracy", " a coup d'état" etc., etc., etc., When the dust settles along with people's emotions, and they have the opportunity to examine it, Canadians will realize this was not a betrayal of democracy, but Canada's constitutional parliamentary democracy in action. It was Harper who attacked democracy in Canada, and who shut down a democratically elected parliament in an attempt to silence democratically elected voices.
He had made a desperate bid to cling to power, ...and it has worked for the time being, however, his complete reversal on the budget shows there was no principal behind his measures, and his concessions were for purely selfish reasons of political self-preservation.
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ya i get how our weird system works...but i dont agree with it. and i think if the opposition actually cared about "canadians" and their vote, they wouldnt pull this shit. they would try and find a more reasonable way to deal with the fact that they lost the election. cause that what this is really about. they(liberals & ndp) are saying that they are doing this cause of what harper has/hasnt done over the last few weeks. but they have been planning this "take over" since the election.
No blinky. If you had been following harper's moves ever since taking office, you will have noted that every move he bullied the opposition and made it a non confidence vote. The Opposition tried to reach out and work with them, but have been refused and rebuffed every step of the way with Harper insisting it is a matter of confidence. So now that it came down to what he has been threatening all along... a confidence vote, ...he runs away from it.
It's not about losing the election, it's about losing confidence.
as for the 'running away and hiding'..... i dont know much about it but apparently the GG thinks its a good idea. and if youre watching the news today it seems like it might be the right thing. there are liberals coming out now saying that they dont agree with the coalition and even a couple criticizing Dion publicly and saying he should be gone now. obviously there is some disagreement amongst themselves about this coalition. time away might be good.
There's no doubt in my mind that is simply political posturing from candidates who don't want any backlash from constituents. Ignatieff has done everything to make it known he is not part of the coalition. Rae cannot distance himself, because he did the same thing in Onatrio when Miller's government was only 8 seats away from the liberals.
I can see where many members of the public not understanding how minority governments are supposed to work may be against it. I'm saddened that it actually had to come to that, and I'm disappointed that since it did, it didn't go through.
and on a side note and not as important(but i do find funny). did u see Dion's recorded speech yesterday after Harpers? it was a joke...HAHA
he looked nervous throughout the whole thing and it looked like he filmed it at his moms house infront of one of her bookshelves. plus took more than an hour to get it to air. even many from his party said it was inexcusable. this man should not be leading canada for any length of time
In all fairness, he didn't have days to plan it, or the luxury of putting much production value into it.
It could not be shot until AFTER Harper's statement. His was a response to Harper's statement, and could only be made after Harper delivered his own speech.
{LOL} There is no denying the "nerdy geek factor is strong in that one" {cringe}
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No, I do believe it will backfire on the conservatives, ...once Canadians have the ability to make sense of what went down.
This thing all happened so quickly, and Harper ALONG WITH THE MEDIA has been spinning it as "a betrayal of democracy", " a coup d'état" etc., etc., etc., When the dust settles along with people's emotions, and they have the opportunity to examine it, Canadians will realize this was not a betrayal of democracy, but Canada's constitutional parliamentary democracy in action. It was Harper who attacked democracy in Canada, and who shut down a democratically elected parliament in an attempt to silence democratically elected voices.
He had made a desperate bid to cling to power, ...and it has worked for the time being, however, his complete reversal on the budget shows there was no principal behind his measures, and his concessions were for purely selfish reasons of political self-preservation.
so you say its democratic for the liberals and ndp to try to overthrow the democratically elected parliament in an attempt to silence democratically elected voices.
but yet you say harper is attacking democracy by going into the christmas break a few weeks early??
does this sound right? really??
i dont get how you people that are for this coalition think overthrowing the elected government is not a slap in the face to democracy...yet harper asking for an early break for the holidays IS against democracy.
isnt the #1 point of a democratic society the ability of the people to vote/choose the government?
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so you say its democratic for the liberals and ndp to try to overthrow the
but yet you say harper is attacking democracy by going into the christmas break a few weeks early??
does this sound right? really??
i dont get how you people that are for this coalition think overthrowing the elected government is not a slap in the face to democracy...yet harper asking for an early break for the holidays IS against democracy.
isnt the #1 point of a democratic society the ability of the people to vote/choose the government?
{LOL} Oh Puleaze! The opposition is not looking "overthrow" the government. They wanted to form it.
They were exercising their obligations in a constitutional parliamentary democracy to represent their constituents who compose 63% of the Canadian population by voting on a very unpopular series of budget proposals. It was Harper who made it a non confidence vote.
Harper wasn't asking for an early holiday, he was seeking to avoid a vote he knew he would lose.
Spin it any way you want, ...we all know what it is. :)
Had the non confidence vote occured, 63% of the population's choice would have formed the new government from among the duly elected members in the house of commons. This is Canada, and this is how it's suppose to work.
It is Harper who has attacked Canadian democracy in action.
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No blinky. If you had been following harper's moves ever since taking office, you will have noted that every move he bullied the opposition and made it a non confidence vote. The Opposition tried to reach out and work with them, but have been refused and rebuffed every step of the way with Harper insisting it is a matter of confidence. So now that it came down to what he has been threatening all along... a confidence vote, ...he runs away from it.
It's not about losing the election, it's about losing confidence.
yes i know thats the reason they are giving..and in all fairness a decent one.
but the ndp & liberals were overheard(and the taped conference call) discussing that this was talked about and being planned way before any of this stuff happened.
In all fairness, he didn't have days to plan it, or the luxury of putting much production value into it.
It could not be shot until AFTER Harper's statement. His was a response to Harper's statement, and could only be made after Harper delivered his own speech.
actually they said Dion's was taped before Harper gave his. this is why people were so upset at how terrible it was and how long it took to get aired
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yes i know thats the reason they are giving..and in all fairness a decent one.
but the ndp & liberals were overheard(and the taped conference call) discussing that this was talked about and being planned way before any of this stuff happened.
I've heard the full conference call, not just the one sentence taken out of context that Harper leaked to the press to make those allegations. Harper will still have to face possible criminal charges on that, for not only eavesdropping on the call, but recording it, and releasing it's contents to the public. That's shameful. Richard Nixon went down for the same thing, ...only Nixon wasn't stupid enough to broadcast it. He still went down. I believe that in ontario, Harper's actions are illegal.
actually they said Dion's was taped before Harper gave his. this is why people were so upset at how terrible it was and how long it took to get aired
I wasn't aware of that. In any event I doubt it was taped before Harper's. Harper's wasn't live, it was taped prior to being aired. There's a difference.
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{LOL} Oh Puleaze! The opposition is not looking "overthrow" the government. They wanted to form it.
yes they are looking to form a government by overthrowing the one that was elected
represent their constituents who compose 63% of the Canadian population
Had the non confidence vote occured, 63% of the population's choice would have formed the new government .
you talk about "spin" yet you keep saying this. in a differnt system it would matter. but in ours it doesnt. its not how our winning party/PM is picked.
and no, i know harper didnt ask for an early holiday break. but in essence thats all that really happened. and in our democratic system it is allowed.
you keep saying how forming a coalition government is allowed in the case of a minority government under our democratic rules. so if you think that is ok then its tough to say that him asking to suspend parliment(which is also allowed) is against democracy...same set of rules/laws
ok im tired and were just going in circles ....LOL
im done for today.
i just hope everything works out best for canada
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I've heard the full conference call, not just the one sentence taken out of context that Harper leaked to the press to make those allegations. Harper will still have to face possible criminal charges on that, for not only eavesdropping on the call, but recording it, and releasing it's contents to the public. That's shameful. Richard Nixon went down for the same thing, ...only Nixon wasn't stupid enough to broadcast it. He still went down. I believe that in ontario, Harper's actions are illegal.
im not saying it's right (it definately isnt). im just saying where things were heard. and all i heard is what was released to the media so you may know more.
and yes the person responsible for doing it should be investigated.
I wasn't aware of that. In any event I doubt it was taped before Harper's. Harper's wasn't live, it was taped prior to being aired. There's a difference.
no Harper's wasnt live but the guys on tv said that Dion's was recorded before he saw Harpers.
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yes they are looking to form a government by overthrowing the one that was elected
you talk about "spin" yet you keep saying this. in a differnt system it would matter. but in ours it doesnt. its not how our winning party/PM is picked.
In a different system, criticizing the head of state could be considered a treasonous offense. But this is not Stalinist Russia. This is Canada. Criticizing the PM is not only permissible, but if he behaves irresponsibly towards Canada and Canadians, his removal from office by his political opponents in a coalition is required in our system of government. In our system, that is PRECISELY how our PM is picked if the current PM loses the confidence of the house. He has done just that. It is 'Responsible Government', ...and Harper must be held accountable, since he's responsible for this mess to begin with.
and no, i know harper didnt ask for an early holiday break. but in essence thats all that really happened. and in our democratic system it is allowed.
you keep saying how forming a coalition government is allowed in the case of a minority government under our democratic rules. so if you think that is ok then its tough to say that him asking to suspend parliment(which is also allowed) is against democracy...same set of rules/laws
Except one side is using recognized parliamentary procedures for getting on with the business of Canada,
and the other is using a parliamentary technical loophole to stall, and avoid getting on with the business of Canada.
ok im tired and were just going in circles ....LOL
im done for today.
i just hope everything works out best for canada
I hope thinks work out for Canada as well. :)
By your last statement, I can see you're a secret supporter of the canadian coalition movement. ;)
You see Blinky, ...this is how a coalition government would work.
They proceed only in areas of agreement that are in the country's best interest.
Sitting on your hands, doing nothing, schemeing at how you can hang onto power isn't in Canada's best interest. ;)
Vacationing in Crawford wasn't in the best interests of the US people while officials came racing up sirens blaring to hand the pResident a report entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike in the USA", and vacationing in Ottawa while an economic storm of unprecedented proportions threatens to sink the Canadian economy, isn't in the best interests of Canada.
ps: Of course you're done. I wouldn't want to have to argue that calling "an early holiday" in the midst of a crisis is a good example of acting responsibly on behalf of Canadians, and not simply a ploy to save his own skin. :P
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Correct you are Bossa. When Harper was elected she called the election"The biggest waste of taxpayer money". So she is saying that because the Libs didnt win, there shouldnt of have been an election. Now that there is a coup d'etat and her party is trying to overthrow and elected goernment, she wont shut up about it.
Not only that, but she is on a censorship of Getbig kick right now, so be careful that you dont say anything she doesnt like or she will have the mods delete it. Democracy at its best. :-X
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When Harper was elected she called the election"The biggest waste of taxpayer money". So she is saying that because the Libs didnt win, there shouldnt of have been an election. Now that there is a coup d'etat and her party is trying to overthrow and elected goernment, she wont shut up about it.
It was a waste of money because it changed nothing. There was no need for an election. Calling a snap election contravened the very legislation Harper himself championed. It was done to catch opposition members with their pants down, in a naked attempt to grab a majority. In the end nothing changed. The same PM resided at Sussex with the same minority government, and taxpayers were out $300 million dollars.
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GM Suspends Oshawa Shift, Resulting In 700 Layoffs
Friday December 5, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0508-gmcuts.jpg)
Close to 700 workers at GM's Oshawa car plant will be out of a job come February as the beleaguered automaker cuts the plant's third shift.
The layoffs are being billed as temporary, according to the Canadian Auto Workers union, but it's not clear how long the affected employees will be off the job. It's the latest blow to the troubled auto industry that's already seen thousands of jobs lost.
The affected line, which builds Impalas at the plant, was already scheduled to be shut down from next week until early January. Employees were told the bad news earlier Thursday evening.
GM Canada so far hasn't commented on the cuts. Oshawa's neighbouring truck plant is already slated to close, which will see 2,600 workers lose their jobs.
Automakers both here and south of the border are appealing to both the Canadian and U.S. governments for big bucks to help them save their industry from going bankrupt. In Canada executives were given a deadline of Friday to present a restructuring plan to the provincial and federal governments. According to one report the head of Chrysler Canada is looking for $1.6 billion in aid from the two levels of government.
Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, appearing at the opening of a Toyota plant in Woodstock, Ont., said he wouldn't use the recent parliamentary crisis in Ottawa as an excuse for inaction, adding that he'd do whatever he could to save the jobs of 400,000 people in the auto sector here.
He was referring to the Governor General's decision to prorogue Parliament until late January following a week where Prime Minister Stephen Harper saw his minority government in threat of being toppled by the united Liberals, NDP, and Bloc Quebecois.
Meanwhile, in Washington, the Big Three automakers in Detroit are also presenting a survival plan to Congress. They're asking to be bailed out to the tune of US$34 billion.
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Rae Readies Cross-Country Campaign
To Promote Coalition, Report Suggests
Friday December 5, 2008
CityNews.ca Staff
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0508-bobrae.jpg)
There were rumours over the past week that not all Liberals were on side with the proposed coalition plan that could've seen the minority Conservative government defeated next week.
But one candidate to become the next Liberal leader is reportedly so in favour of the idea he's planning a cross-country campaign to sell Canadians on it. The published report suggests Grit MP Bob Rae intends to talk to voters from one end of the country to the other in an effort to demonstrate why a unified front of Liberals and NDP politicians would be a better choice to run the country than Stephen Harper's party.
The Harper government will survive until at least January after Governor General Michaelle Jean granted the Prime Minister's request to prorogue Parliament until the New Year. However it may only be a temporary reprieve for the governing party. There's a good chance the government may still fall when parties vote on the budget the Conservatives have promised to put out in January.
If that happens, Rae is setting himself up to be the chief salesperson of the proposed coalition government that would see the Bloc Quebecois supporting a government made up of Liberal and NDP MPs.
According to the report Rae interrupted current Liberal Leader Stephane Dion during a closed-door Liberal caucus meeting and accused him of being too conciliatory with Harper.
Dion is on his way out, following a crushing loss in the October 14 election, to be replaced by a new leader in May. Rae and fellow Liberal MP Michael Ignatieff are seen as the two frontrunners for the top job.
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Correct you are Bossa. When Harper was elected she called the election"The biggest waste of taxpayer money". So she is saying that because the Libs didnt win, there shouldnt of have been an election. Now that there is a coup d'etat and her party is trying to overthrow and elected goernment, she wont shut up about it.
Not only that, but she is on a censorship of Getbig kick right now, so be careful that you dont say anything she doesnt like or she will have the mods delete it. Democracy at its best. :-X
So am I correct is saying that with her "democratic" beliefs and her "new censorship kick" its actually a suprise she supports the liberals and not Jack Layton and his communist ideals?
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Her censorship kick is strictly ego-driven on her part. She despises anyone who disagrees with her, especially when they show her the door. Remember this is the woman who claimed to have the same IQ as Albert Einstein. Narcissism at its
finest. Worst.
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U.S. Oblivious To Political Crisis In Canada
Friday December 5, 2008
Lee-Anne Goodman, The Canadian Press
(http://www.citynews.ca/images/2008-12/dec0508-opp1.jpg)
James Blanchard, the onetime U.S. ambassador to Canada, once described his adopted land as "the invisible world next door."
American oblivion about its biggest trading partner was evident again this week as scant few Washington power brokers paid any attention to the historic political crisis raging north of the border.
The New York Times, CNN and The Associated Press were among the few news organizations that regularly reported on Prime Minister Stephen Harper's fight for his political life against a hastily convened coalition of opposition parties.
Only in the immediate wake of Thursday's historic decision to prorogue Parliament did the crisis get much attention from the international media, including The Economist, The Christian Science Monitor newspaper and the International Herald Tribune.
"I Googled the word 'Canada' in some U.S. papers and they hadn't even had stories containing the word Canada in three days, never mind stories about the political crisis," David Biette, the director of the Canada Institute at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, said Friday.
An official at the Canadian Embassy was equally mystified that few in Washington seemed to be aware that the Canadian government had been on the brink of being toppled.
"No one seems to have any idea," the official said earlier this week.
In the Washington Post mid-week, an item at the height of the crisis was buried in a collection of foreign news briefs. The paper has run AP copy on its website, but many U.S. newspapers and websites have contained no mention at all of the events.
The Times, on the other hand, gave the story prominent play throughout the week, and the AP has had daily dispatches from Ottawa.
Biette points out that Americans are understandably consumed by their own historic events right now. Barack Obama, the first black man to be elected president in U.S. history, will be sworn in on Jan. 20, and officials in D.C. are busily preparing for the inauguration.
Spectator stands are already being constructed outside the White House and along the inauguration parade route, security details are being worked out, and thousands of D.C. residents are making arrangements to rent out their homes and apartments at top dollar when millions of visitors flood to town for the events.
And Congressional leaders have been preoccupied this week with the plight of the Big Three U.S. automakers. The CEOs of all three companies returned to the capital this week to plead for a financial bailout after coming up with measures aimed at running their businesses more efficiently.
Far from the Beltway and closer to the Canada-U.S. border, some were paying closer attention to their neighbours to the north.
Vermont Public Radio host Mitch Wertlieb had a segment on the drama on Friday, talking to a local political scientist about the chain of events.
"If you're one of those political junkies going through withdrawal now that the U.S. presidential contest is history, you can turn to Canada to get a fix of serious political drama," Wertlieb told his listeners.
But for the most part, Biette said, Americans just aren't following the drama.
"It doesn't affect us, I guess," he said. "Right now it's their family problem, and we'll just wait to see what happens."
The Woodrow Wilson Center established the Canada Institute with the stated purpose of exploring "one of America's most important bilateral relationships, but one that gets far less attention in Washington than it deserves."
Had the government actually fallen, Biette said, a conference of American politicians, scholars and business representatives would have been held at the institute to discuss the crisis.
Biette was in the process of organizing the event when Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean threw Harper a lifeline on Thursday by allowing him to suspend Parliament - a process known as proroguing - until Jan. 26.
"I was getting my ducks in a row if the government had fallen, and you had this rogue group of disparate politicians culled together, many of whom have dissed the U.S. in the past - there certainly would have been some interest here if that had happened," Biette said.
"That would have been quite fascinating because we wouldn't have known here what kind of situation Canada was getting itself into" - and may yet find itself.
Harper has until Jan. 26 to find a way out of the crisis, he added.
"That's six days after the inauguration, and Americans may indeed be paying attention then."
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(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/laughing_at_u.gif)
This reminds me of when Quebec held the sovereignty vote in 1996, and when it was all over, politicians stateside flipped out when they realized how seriously close we came to breaking up as a country. They had no clue what was going on, how serious the situation was, ...and it was happening right under their noses.
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Did anyone read her latest tirade? Probably not?
She's grasping at straws. My God Im laughin here. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Proroguing the house was the right thing to do.
The only time that a coalition replaced the government without consent from the party in power was in 1928 aByng got tied up in all sorts of problems and Mackenzie King stripped the Governor General of all most all of their powers.Most constiituion experts before the 2008 thought that it was the wrong move. However the same experts don't like Harper and support it now.
The crown (governor general) represents the people and is supposed to do the will of the people. After this week it would be almost impossible for a coalition to put in place. Especially one that has less seats then the government that is in power.
That is the beautiful thing about living in Canada. The Queens prerogative can be more organic then many people realize.
The outcome on Monday most likely would have lead to an election and this precedence would have been good for the country.
Hopefully now my liberal party can focus on rebuilding. I rally don't ant to see a coalition government in power.
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Proroguing the house was the right thing to do.
I was hoping against all odds that she wouldn't allow Harper to prorogue, ...but it was a long shot.
When I heard she was cutting short her European trip and coming home, I got even more worried.
I think she was making sure she did everything by the book without making it into a constitutional crisis.
It would have been highly unusual of her NOT to grant Harper's request, but I was hoping the urgency
of the moment would have allowed her to do it. I guess not. :( (Wishful thinking can be comforting tho) :)
If she had denied Harper's request, it could have led to a constitutional legal challenge, ...plus her next decision could have been to be call an election... which could also have led to a legal challenge from the opposition, ...especially with a coalition in place and ready to govern. It could have been an absolute mess. The safe move on her part I suppose was to grant Harper's request. Then, if he fails a non confidence motion, ...then consider the possibility of a coalition over an election. All I gotta say is Harper had better produce the goods come January, or it will be a shitstorm up here, ...but our Governor General has covered her tushy just fine, ...thus far. :P
The only time that a coalition replaced the government without consent from the party in power was in 1928 aByng got tied up in all sorts of problems and Mackenzie King stripped the Governor General of all most all of their powers.Most constiituion experts before the 2008 thought that it was the wrong move. However the same experts don't like Harper and support it now.
Perhaps at the federal level. But this went down in Ontario in 1985 led by then NDP Premier Bob Rae. Frank Miller's Conservatives barely squeaked by to a minority gov. There were only something like 8 seats separating him and Liberal leader David Peterson, with Bob Rae holding the balance of seats. Rae joined with Peterson to topple Miller, and a coalition was allowed to proceed.
The crown (governor general) represents the people and is supposed to do the will of the people. After this week it would be almost impossible for a coalition to put in place. Especially one that has less seats then the government that is in power.
That is the beautiful thing about living in Canada. The Queens prerogative can be more organic then many people realize.
The outcome on Monday most likely would have lead to an election and this precedence would have been good for the country.
I doubt that would have been the case, ...not with a coalition ready to go. She would have had to defer to that, ...especially so soon after an election, ...rather than spend another $300 million of tax payer money, and no action on the economy. If not, you can bet your maple leaf there would have been a legal constitutional challenge issued and that could just get really ugly.
I'm just glad we're Canadians with the ability to accept defeat, disappointment and setbacks with grace. :)
In other countries, ...there'd be people running in the streets with guns screaming for a revolution. ;D
Hopefully now my liberal party can focus on rebuilding. I rally don't ant to see a coalition government in power.
From Your Lips To God's Ears!
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I doubt that would have been the case, ...not with a coalition ready to go. She would have had to defer to that, ...especially so soon after an election, ...rather than spend another $300 million of tax payer money, and no action on the economy. If not, you can bet your maple leaf there would have been a legal constitutional challenge issued and that could just get really ugly.
The way the queens prerogative works ensures that there isn't a constitutional challenge, since she is a fundamental part of the constitution. The only thing the opposition can do is threaten to reopen the constitution and this won't happen.
The governor general almost always sides on caution and that would be another election.The only time this doesn't happen was King Byng, many constitutional experts and historians feel that the wrong decision was made and that there should have been an election.
The conservatives actually asked the lieutenant governor to let the coalition govern in order to avoid an election they would lose. That wasn't the case here.
For what its worth I would rather have 300 million spent on an election then to have coalition that didn't receive a mandate from the people govern.
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And the guy who started the whole coup d'etat, Stephan Dion, is supposed to be resigning as head of the Liberal party today. Yet they wanted him to lead the country if the coup won? His own party doesnt even want him. LOL!
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And the guy who started the whole coup d'etat, Stephan Dion, is supposed to be resigning as head of the Liberal party today. Yet they wanted him to lead the country if the coup won? His own party doesnt even want him. LOL!
thats what i was saying...ridiculous
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And the guy who started the whole coup d'etat, Stephan Dion, is supposed to be resigning as head of the Liberal party today. Yet they wanted him to lead the country if the coup won? His own party doesnt even want him. LOL!
Actually, the guy who started it NDP Leader Jack Layton is not resigning. Dion is resigning simply because there is the need to solidify and stabilize the leadership of the liberal party, and all parties concerned feel this is best done sooner rather than later. A coalition has a better chance of succeeding is the leadership of the liberal party were not in question, ...as would the election of a liberal government, were the conservatives to be toppled in the near future.
It was Jack Layton of the NDP who started the coalition. It would have been headed up by the Liberal party simply because they had more votes than any other party in the coalition.
BTW: We've already seen the fallout for the Liberals over this coalition... Jean Charest, leader of the Quebec Liberal party was just re-elected, and this time, the voters of Quebec gave his Liberal government a majority mandate, rather than the minority they were forced to settle with before. Hopefully, Ignatieff will take the helm at the federal level, and voters across Canada will see fit to hand Ignatieff a majority if and when it comes down to an election.
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For what its worth I would rather have 300 million spent on an election then to have coalition that didn't receive a mandate from the people govern.
I'd rather a coalition representing 63% of voters head up the government, and the $300 million be given to me. :P
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I'd rather a coalition representing 63% of voters head up the government, and the $300 million be given to me. :P
The 63% is false logic.
The liberals ran under not forming a coalition.
Also many liberal ndp and green voters did not vote for a coalition.
If the parties feel it is their best interest to run together, then formally join, or run under coalition and let the will of the people dictate.
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The 63% is false logic.
The liberals ran under not forming a coalition.
Also many liberal ndp and green voters did not vote for a coalition.
If the parties feel it is their best interest to run together, then formally join, or run under coalition and let the will of the people dictate.
Well joker, as you and I both know, for any minority to work, it must operate as a defacto coalition.
This is a fact that Harper failed to recognize or at least conduct himself like he did, ...but then again,
his brazenly stupid moves may be part of some grand design that will reveal itself in the upcoming weeks. (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shrug.gif)
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Well joker, as you and I both know, for any minority to work, it must operate as a defacto coalition.
This is a fact that Harper failed to recognize or at least conduct himself like he did, ...but then again,
his brazenly stupid moves may be part of some grand design that will reveal itself in the upcoming weeks. (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/shrug.gif)
No it doesn't.
The government just needs at least one party to side with them on any bill.
For example in the past the conservatives would reliably use the bloc for regional political matters.
The liberals on most financial matters
The NDP for crazy matters.
The liberals would use the bloc for regional matters.
The conservatives for money matters.
The NDP for social matters.
But never under a formal coalition.
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No it doesn't.
The government just needs at least one party to side with them on any bill.
For example in the past the conservatives would reliably use the bloc for regional political matters.
The liberals on most financial matters
The NDP for crazy matters.
The liberals would use the bloc for regional matters.
The conservatives for money matters.
The NDP for social matters.
But never under a formal coalition.
Not a "formal" coalition perhaps, ...but regardless of how loose, it is still a coalition. :D
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co⋅a⋅li⋅tion
/ˌkoʊəˈlɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [koh-uh-lish-uhn] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a combination or alliance, esp. a temporary one between persons, factions, states, etc.
2. a union into one body or mass; fusion.
Working with groups isn't a coalition.
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co⋅a⋅li⋅tion
/ˌkoʊəˈlɪʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [koh-uh-lish-uhn] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a combination or alliance, esp. a temporary one between persons, factions, states, etc.
2. a union into one body or mass; fusion.
Working with groups isn't a coalition.
I rest my case. :)
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A coalition thats in league with the Bloc, who's ONLY goal is to break up the country. The Libs will do ANYTHING to steal power, even if it means hopping into bed with Duceppe.
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I rest my case. :)
al⋅li⋅ance
/əˈlaɪəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-lahy-uhns] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act of allying or state of being allied.
2. a formal agreement or treaty between two or more nations to cooperate for specific purposes.
3. a merging of efforts or interests by persons, families, states, or organizations: an alliance between church and state.
4. the persons or entities so allied.
5. marriage or the relationship created by marriage between the families of the bride and bridegroom.
6. correspondence in basic characteristics; affinity: the alliance between logic and metaphysics.
As a said previously working with another group isn't a coalition.
A coalition thats in league with the Bloc, who's ONLY goal is to break up the country. The Libs will do ANYTHING to steal power, even if it means hopping into bed with Duceppe.
That is the biggest problem, who wants the bloc in power or even close to it.
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al⋅li⋅ance
/əˈlaɪəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-lahy-uhns] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act of allying or state of being allied.
2. a formal agreement or treaty between two or more nations to cooperate for specific purposes.
3. a merging of efforts or interests by persons, families, states, or organizations: an alliance between church and state.
4. the persons or entities so allied.
5. marriage or the relationship created by marriage between the families of the bride and bridegroom.
6. correspondence in basic characteristics; affinity: the alliance between logic and metaphysics.
As a said previously working with another group isn't a coalition.
That is the biggest problem, who wants the bloc in power or even close to it.
That's NOT the biggest problem. The biggest problem is Harper's MO actually led to such a coalition.
The very fact that Dion and other federalists could be forced to form an alliance with the Bloc,
...after all the years he spent fighting them is indicative of how bad Harper is.
It was Dion who originally put the sovereignty question to bed, ...and it was Harper who re-opened it after so many years. I'm just glad Ignatieff is in charge of the liberal party now, ...he was the candidate that Harper feared most.
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Dion was forced? LMFAO!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Call it what is really is- a power grab. Now Dion, the man you wouldnt shut up about, isnt even leader of the Liberal party now and all of a sudden its "Hurray for Iggy!" Pathetic.
But the best part is listening to you bullshit your way through every post. Its pure comedy.
PS: no reason to have this post deleted, either, Jag. Thanks. ;)