Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Stavios on December 03, 2008, 08:43:10 PM
-
I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.
Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?
I never gained anything off-cycle, myself.
I am always able to maintain most of what I had, but I still lose some muscle.
example: when I stopped everything I was 230lbs 11% bf
right now I am about 222-224lbs 14% bf last time I checked, maybe I am fatter right now. but I doubt so because I have been eating clean and doing cardio 5 times a week this month
I have been off for 3 months and a half now
-
At a certain point, if you've pushed your body beyond it's natural state, then yes you're always going to loose what you've gained, eventually. Everyone's body has a natural balance between bodyfat and lean mass. If you've pushed yourself beyond that point with AAS usage then there's nothing you're going to do when off AAS to keep that unbalance you've created.
-
At a certain point, if you've pushed your body beyond it's natural state, then yes you're always going to loose what you've gained, eventually. Everyone's body has a natural balance between bodyfat and lean mass. If you've pushed yourself beyond that point with AAS usage then there's nothing you're going to do when off AAS to keep that unbalance you've created.
yeah that's what I also think.
I am happy I am still keeping my bodyweight up this time around tho.
last off-cycle I went from 225 to 207 in about 2 months, while getting fatter
-
I do think with time though, that you can alter the natural state your body is used to. With prolonged use you'll find you can keep more weight without getting as fat.
-
Thats why you should NEVER come off
-
I do think with time though, that you can alter the natural state your body is used to. With prolonged use you'll find you can keep more weight without getting as fat.
Yeah, I notice people at the gym who have been at this for 15-20 years, keep their size much better when they go Off
-
im in better shape now naturally then b4 i started using...the sauce has helped shape my body a lot better then it has ever been permenantly
-
stavios you dont make natural gains?
-
stavios you dont make natural gains?
nop, as soon as I get off I struggle to keep the weight on.
seems easier this time around, but I am sure as hell not making any gains
-
Homeostasis is a mean, dirty bitch. >:(
-
nop, as soon as I get off I struggle to keep the weight on.
seems easier this time around, but I am sure as hell not making any gains
do you ever take time off to train naturally? i usually do 1 or 2 cycles a year and train natural for the rest of the year...i make very slow constant gains naturally
-
stavios you been off for 3 1/2 months? its time to rejoin your brothers from the dark side!
-
At a certain point, if you've pushed your body beyond it's natural state, then yes you're always going to loose what you've gained, eventually. Everyone's body has a natural balance between bodyfat and lean mass. If you've pushed yourself beyond that point with AAS usage then there's nothing you're going to do when off AAS to keep that unbalance you've created.
Emmortal's statement is the bottom line unless you are a gentic freak.
I've said before that for me personally when off, I keep the most muscle when I eat right and do ZERO weight training for the first 4-6 weeks. Or if I do want to train during PCT, I just keep using 20 IU Humalog preworkout with some Clen. The combo is anabolic/anticatabolic.
Everyone is different. This may not work for 95% of the guys out there. My theory it that if you are beyond your natural set point you will lose even more muscle if training when first off because your hormone levels are low for a while and you just tear down muscle that you can't rebuild. I will say that this has no scientific basis. It's just what I've learned about my body over the last 15 years.
-
I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.
Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?
I never gained anything off-cycle, myself.
I am always able to maintain most of what I had, but I still lose some muscle.
example: when I stopped everything I was 230lbs 11% bf
right now I am about 222-224lbs 14% bf last time I checked, maybe I am fatter right now. but I doubt so because I have been eating clean and doing cardio 5 times a week this month
I have been off for 3 months and a half now
It is hard to do and me personally believe it is alot mental...I once thought as you do...but learned I have to work twice as hard as I do with out "help"
-
I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.
Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?
It's a bunch BS of course. The only guys who maintain body weight are the ones who get fat.
...i make very slow constant gains naturally
I've never seen this IRL. You're saying gear gains are permanent for you; doesn't work like that.
-
It's a bunch BS of course. The only guys who maintain body weight are the ones who get fat.
Bingo. I was so confused by what everyone was saying on the internet, especially on bb.com... gaining 20lbs off orals, "pure muscle" and not losing any more than a lb or two during PCT? Surprisingly enough, none of those idiots ever post pictures. ::)
When I talk to people in real life they say they lose a good amount of the gains. But after a while you start making more and more progress. You're basically swimming against the current. It'll take a while to get far, and often times you'll drift backwards a little bit. But the next time around it's easier to progress... and you'll make some good gains over time. Just never expect to retain everything you've gained from a cycle unless maybe it was a cutting cycle. But even then, expect to hold a little more adipose tissue and hold onto less muscle if you continue to diet down.
-
I agree, not only do you not make many natural gains past your mid 20's if you have been working out for 10 years, but that also within time, 6 months or more you will lose most muscle gained while on cycle. The body just has its natural regulators in it that can't hold more than what it was created to unless you are on drugs. The answer I believe to is to stay on all the time.
jt
-
I do think with time though, that you can alter the natural state your body is used to. With prolonged use you'll find you can keep more weight without getting as fat.
Observing people I know who compete I would say this is true also.
-
Yeah, we have natural "Set Points" that our body likes to be at. It hates trying to go beyond those points which is why we need more calories to grow and then add in AAS and we can bust past those points.
I remember as a wee little lad starting this game, I wanted to be 200 lbs. I was always lean and muscular from all the sports I played as a kid and thru High School. Was a bitch getting there naturally but once I did, I have never dipped below 200. Then once I started AAS a few years ago, even when I come off, never drop below 210 or so, just a new set point for me.
I guess I just repeated what E train was saying.... :-\
-
if u compete, you are not supposed to go off, lol!! of course youll lose alot!! the body was not meant to be huge muscularly and lean at the same time. rather your off time should consist of 200 mg of test per week, and when you decideto go on,then add in your orals, up your test and add your other injectables for the 10-12 weeks needed. when your done with the show, go back to 200 mgs of test per week. no way around it. youll cotinue to gain/maintain.
-c
-
It's a bunch BS of course. The only guys who maintain body weight are the ones who get fat.
I've never seen this IRL. You're saying gear gains are permanent for you; doesn't work like that.
hey dude dont talk to me like im some gimmick bullshit account...im telling you how the shit goes for me.. he was saying makin natural gains are bs...i make slow natural gains because i am off most of the year...thats what i was saying...and yes i do keep a little bit from each cycle...juice has def shaped my muscles permenantly..
-
hey dude dont talk to me like im some gimmick bullshit account...im telling you how the shit goes for me.. he was saying makin natural gains are bs...i make slow natural gains because i am off most of the year...thats what i was saying...and yes i do keep a little bit from each cycle...juice has def shaped my muscles permenantly..
Wasn't trying to diss you, sorry. The way you worded it sounded like you made permanent gains, that you kept everything and then you continued gaining on top of that. I do think steroids can push your natural set-point forward a little bit but if gains were permanent lots of guys would just come off permanently after a while.
-
my bad too van...i thought u were dissing me like i was a gimmick account or something...i can see how you misunderstood my post..noo worries
-
I always read some guys say they " keep everything they had and even make gains".
If you do, please answer this.
Did you get your bodyfat checked so you can see if you really gained LBM of you only go by the scale or mirror ?
I never gained anything off-cycle, myself.
I am always able to maintain most of what I had, but I still lose some muscle.
example: when I stopped everything I was 230lbs 11% bf
right now I am about 222-224lbs 14% bf last time I checked, maybe I am fatter right now. but I doubt so because I have been eating clean and doing cardio 5 times a week this month
I have been off for 3 months and a half now
If you're that much of a hardgainer, you'll always have this issue when coming off.
As long as you eat clean and keep everything in check you'll have residual gains over time, and gain more when you cycle.....
The whole point is to keep anabolism so you don't fall back and lose any momentum you have.
DIV
-
If you're that much of a hardgainer, you'll always have this issue when coming off.
As long as you eat clean and keep everything in check you'll have residual gains over time, and gain more when you cycle.....
The whole point is to keep anabolism so you don't fall back and lose any momentum you have.
DIV
Yes and the cyclic nature of life itself makes that hard to do for long periods, "what goes up must come down." Unless one leads a Spartan life and is a soilder the momentum can be difficult to maintain.
-
If you're that much of a hardgainer, you'll always have this issue when coming off.
As long as you eat clean and keep everything in check you'll have residual gains over time, and gain more when you cycle.....
The whole point is to keep anabolism so you don't fall back and lose any momentum you have.
DIV
agreed
-
If you're that much of a hardgainer, you'll always have this issue when coming off.
As long as you eat clean and keep everything in check you'll have residual gains over time, and gain more when you cycle.....
The whole point is to keep anabolism so you don't fall back and lose any momentum you have.
DIV
yes ! that's what I try to do.
I needed a good break cause I was on for a while because of my show in july so after a while I feel the drugs don't do shit for me.
after a good break they work much better
-
Stavios, do you bridge between cycles on any other drugs? Peptides in particular...
I know insulin can be pretty dangerous but I've got some experience with a glucose monitor and started using some. I ran tests with one about a year ago but decided I wasn't ready. I haven't used mega high doses but I'm using a little with some GH right now and I'm staying pretty full and lean off cycle. Then again, I've been doing lots of cutting because I've thrown my ego out the window and stopped caring about what numbers I see on the scale.
May be worth some consideration. I have had a hard time retaining gains off cycle mostly because of tragedies like getting pneumonia and having my ancillaries destroyed (and no sources at the time to get back on or get fertility drugs). I feel your painnn. Seems like every day I consider hoping right back on lol it's so hard not to!
-
no I never use peptides, even ON cycle.
I don't trust any of the HGH around here, or I would have already try it.
:(
-
Ahh shitty... yeah, I used a lot of fake IGF-1 in my day. Fucking BLOWS.
Finally scored some real GH at about $3.5 per iu so it's not too bad. It's still expensive, but I'm gonna run it for a while with some small burst cycles of slin. I was initially just going to run slin, but I'm going to run GH with it as well as T3 just so I don't screw up my body too badly. Now I'm just considering running the GH for up to half, perhaps a full year. It's an investment in yourself.... that's at least what I tell myself when I think about how much money I've blown lol
-
no I never use peptides, even ON cycle.
I don't trust any of the HGH around here, or I would have already try it.
:(
I've got a cheap source in China for GH, but haven't had the chance to test them out.
$1 per IU........
Yes and the cyclic nature of life itself makes that hard to do for long periods, "what goes up must come down." Unless one leads a Spartan life and is a soilder the momentum can be difficult to maintain.
As I got older, other things took presidence and everyone needs down time.
When I was in my twenties I never thought I'd take time off or ever have concentration issues when it came to lifting.
I retain mass and strength easily, but the consistency in my training is what I notice is harder as I age.
One of the reasons I'd never be a bodybuilder, competing and eating clean all the time, is due to the fact that I enjoy the other things in life too much.
I respect the dedication it takes to live that kind of life, but unless there's major pay it doesn't seem worth it.
DIV
-
I've got a cheap source in China for GH, but haven't had the chance to test them out.
$1 per IU........
DIV
you know the saying !
When it seems too good to be true...
:-\
-
you know the saying !
When it seems too good to be true...
:-\
I don't understand what you are saying Stavios, DIV knows his stuff.
jt
-
you know the saying !
When it seems too good to be true...
:-\
Well, do you think I would deal with counterfeits or scammers?
I have alot of hookups and connections, never been scammed, never will.
I'm going to try out this Chinese GH and if it works, people will know.
DIV
-
Well, do you think I would deal with counterfeits or scammers?
I have alot of hookups and connections, never been scammed, never will.
I'm going to try out this Chinese GH and if it works, people will know.
DIV
of course, I know you only use quality stuff.
I hope they are good !
-
Well, do you think I would deal with counterfeits or scammers?
I have alot of hookups and connections, never been scammed, never will.
I'm going to try out this Chinese GH and if it works, people will know.
DIV
Spot on!
-
I'm going to try out this Chinese GH and if it works, people will know.
Unless you've done some Humatrope or Genotropin etc, what are you going to compare it to? :D
-
If you're that much of a hardgainer, you'll always have this issue when coming off.
As long as you eat clean and keep everything in check you'll have residual gains over time, and gain more when you cycle.....
The whole point is to keep anabolism so you don't fall back and lose any momentum you have.
DIV
::)
-
As I got older, other things took presidence and everyone needs down time.
When I was in my twenties I never thought I'd take time off or ever have concentration issues when it came to lifting.
I retain mass and strength easily, but the consistency in my training is what I notice is harder as I age.
One of the reasons I'd never be a bodybuilder, competing and eating clean all the time, is due to the fact that I enjoy the other things in life too much.
I respect the dedication it takes to live that kind of life, but unless there's major pay it doesn't seem worth it.
DIV
Well as far as a pay off in bodybuilding its rarely money but a level of personal acomplishment that can be just as or more fullfilling than money or fame. Its the little guy who has a moment to shine in this big world, even if its in some little town's high school adutorium. Lots of people in this world trudging through life, gotta make those moments for yourself, whatever that may be.
-
Well as far as a pay off in bodybuilding its rarely money but a level of personal acomplishment that can be just as or more fullfilling than money or fame. Its the little guy who has a moment to shine in this big world, even if its in some little town's high school adutorium. Lots of people in this world trudging through life, gotta make those moments for yourself, whatever that may be.
agreed