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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: ahh.. fk on December 05, 2008, 05:08:06 PM

Title: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: ahh.. fk on December 05, 2008, 05:08:06 PM
How important is it to go heavy on shrugs? I can feel 225. if I am doing high reps. I can go over 400lb but I am not sure if its beneficial. The range of motion is about 80% at that point but form is good. Is it worth it to go low heavy reps for traps?
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: QuakerOats on December 05, 2008, 05:24:01 PM
for me the heavier the better, i load that bastard as heavy as i can hold with chalk and do as many reps as i can until my grip goes, heavy as fucck is the only thing that works for me on shrugs and most everything else.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: thewickedtruth on December 05, 2008, 10:11:56 PM
if you do'nt have traps...you won't have traps. Traps are like calves.. I've successfully shrug'd upwards of 825 for 3 reps and 600-700's for sets of 10 and still have shit traps. Deads lifts and farmer's have given me some hope but I get the idea that if you aren't gifted in them.. you won't have them.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Bluto on December 06, 2008, 05:44:36 AM
Ill do both low reps and high reps. 2 different exercises - one low reps heavy one high reps lighter.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: QuakerOats on December 06, 2008, 05:56:09 AM
if you do'nt have traps...you won't have traps. Traps are like calves.. I've successfully shrug'd upwards of 825 for 3 reps and 600-700's for sets of 10 and still have shit traps. Deads lifts and farmer's have given me some hope but I get the idea that if you aren't gifted in them.. you won't have them.
your traps are pretty good from what i've seen, none of us on here are Bill Kazmaier but i think your traps are getting more out of the heavy weight than they would out of lighter weight.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Reign Down on December 06, 2008, 10:40:25 AM
Ill do both low reps and high reps. 2 different exercises - one low reps heavy one high reps lighter.

Why?
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: physicsgeek on December 06, 2008, 11:34:46 AM
How important is it to go heavy on shrugs? I can feel 225. if I am doing high reps. I can go over 400lb but I am not sure if its beneficial. The range of motion is about 80% at that point but form is good. Is it worth it to go low heavy reps for traps?

I do heavy bottom partials behind my back using a smith machine. Usually around 500lbs on my last set. It will build mountains on your shoulders trust me.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: MisterMagoo on December 06, 2008, 12:07:54 PM
if you do'nt have traps...you won't have traps. Traps are like calves.. I've successfully shrug'd upwards of 825 for 3 reps and 600-700's for sets of 10 and still have shit traps. Deads lifts and farmer's have given me some hope but I get the idea that if you aren't gifted in them.. you won't have them.

agreed. my traps just kinda blow up and i swear i'm the most inconsistent trap trainer on the planet. i almost never do shrugs any more, most of the work comes from deads and rows.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 06, 2008, 01:49:08 PM
Relative to each individual, I think heavy deadlifts will help your traps out more than anything. They will hit the entire traps, not just the upper part as in shrugs. If you want to make sure you stimulate growth in your entire traps, upper, middle, and lower, experiment with Kelso Shrugs...

There are many different variations of "Kelso Shrugs." For example, in one variation, instead of doing your shrugs standing straight up and down, you may do them either bent over like a row or completely horizontal on a bench, for example:

From
(http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/LatShrug1.JPG)
to
(http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/LatShrug2.JPG)
and repeat.

http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/latshrug.html

This targets the middle portion of the traps as opposed to the upper portion, and will bring out your middle back thickness if that is an area you need to target. Try them, it really works!

My favorite shrug variation is on a low pulley. Try it, you'll love it to death. Go to the cable machine, set it on the low pulley, attach a straight bar, and sit on the ground on your butt with your legs straight. Get close enough you can just reach the bar, and secure your feet by having so much weight to push on you won't move when you shrug the stack. Be far enough back there is slight tension (no slack) in the cable. Shrug the weight straight back by squeezing your blades together as hard as you can. You can go VERY heavy on them and they work tremendously well!

There are many, many productive variations of shrugs to target certain areas. Basically, the more tilted forward, toward the weight, your upper body is, the lower on the traps you will stimulate. See, our conventional method of standing shrugs targets the upper-most part and we're missing out! For more info, check out this brilliant work.:
(http://www.wheatmark.com/covers/1587361167.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Kelsos-Shrug-Book-Paul-Kelso/dp/1587361167/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228650904&sr=1-1

Take note, though, you don't want to do too much volume (variation). Maybe one hard, heavy set to failure for your upper traps with standing shrugs then one heavy set to failure with some variation of Kelso shrugs to target either the middle or lower portion. If you're going to do standing shrugs then another variation, I'd recommend the one you're adding to be this variation Donkey Kong recommended in another thread...here's how he described it:

"get a cable with a rope attached into the upper position, like if you wanted to do triceps pulldowns. Now what you do is not grap the rope like you would on cable pulldowns, but you reach under the rope and grap the rope from behind.

Now when you put up your arms, the arms should be in a position like on close grop lat pulldowns. hands are about at height a bit above your ears.

What you do now is to pull your elbows BACK as much as you can and flex the traps in the end."


This will target the lower-middle portion; the part the standing shrugs, which target the upper traps moreso, don't so much. Good luck!
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: thewickedtruth on December 06, 2008, 02:20:52 PM
good call on the kelso's soundness... problem is too many people row them instead of just shrugging the shoulders back. It resembles a dead hang row and for some reason people don't get that.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 06, 2008, 02:26:40 PM
good call on the kelso's soundness... problem is too many people row them instead of just shrugging the shoulders back. It resembles a dead hang row and for some reason people don't get that.

Yep, you've got to tell them
"...squeeze your shoulder blades together while keeping your arms completely straight."  ;)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: ozman on December 07, 2008, 07:29:50 PM
Yep, you've got to tell them
"...squeeze your shoulder blades together while keeping your arms completely straight."  ;)

good call
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: The Apprentice on December 07, 2008, 07:38:53 PM
agreed. my traps just kinda blow up and i swear i'm the most inconsistent trap trainer on the planet. i almost never do shrugs any more, most of the work comes from deads and rows.
x2
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: elite_lifter on December 07, 2008, 08:05:40 PM
db shrugs work great for me
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: tbombz on December 07, 2008, 08:11:22 PM
go as heavy as you can go in the 8-12 rep range  while keepin the majority of the stress on the traps

Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: jon cole on December 08, 2008, 08:42:36 AM
start with heavy/low reps shrugs with barbell then 3 sets of 15/20 reps with a 45lbs plate in each hand, concentrating on peak contraction.
good congestion, good burning and more mass since i do this.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Rimbaud on December 08, 2008, 08:47:40 AM
I personally think heavy shrugs are a waste. I prefer a moderate weight & just bang out a lot of reps. Most of my trap work consists of a couple sets of dumbbell shrugs (with 50-75 pounds & 25-50 reps - all depending on how I feel).
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Klaus Deurring on December 08, 2008, 08:52:28 AM
as heavy as you can go till your hands cant hold it anymore!!! easiest exercise!!
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: jon cole on December 08, 2008, 10:17:55 AM
I personally think heavy shrugs are a waste. I prefer a moderate weight & just bang out a lot of reps. Most of my trap work consists of a couple sets of dumbbell shrugs (with 50-75 pounds & 25-50 reps - all depending on how I feel).

yes !!!
 the meaning of shrugs is to lift with your traps, people train so heavy that they lift with their arm, legs all the body exept the traps.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: jpm101 on December 08, 2008, 10:26:56 AM
For those who think they are trapped "challenged" you might consider power cleans or power Hi-Pull (as hangs or off a PR). An ultimate movement for thick traps. Not to mention the whole upper back and even the muscles along the  spinal column/lower back.

If anyone wants to do themselves a favor try doing a set of shrugs first and than SS'ed with Hi-Pulls for example. Either heavy or light weight, what may work best for you. I would prefer heavy with a 4 to 6 reps scheme, personal view only. May also want to include a wider grip from time to time, something akin to a snatch grip or collar to collar. Check out Olympic lifters for outstanding traps and shoulder structures.

TWT may have a lower structured trap  rather than a higher set that seem to start from the middle of the neck (never have seen a pic of him..I do no know for sure). He can not change that, but with the impressive weight he can handle his middle to lower traps must be well developed and thick.

Kelso shrugs can be good, but for overall muscle  bulk they are only part of the picture when training traps. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: thewickedtruth on December 08, 2008, 11:16:24 AM
i used to do 100 rep sets with 125's and felt shit..

I did 350lb farmer's walks saturday and my tire body felt that shit..

based on the felt stimulus and end result.. is what i'd go with as far as training advice per individual.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: cheftim on December 08, 2008, 12:43:40 PM
Relative to each individual, I think heavy deadlifts will help your traps out more than anything. They will hit the entire traps, not just the upper part as in shrugs. If you want to make sure you stimulate growth in your entire traps, upper, middle, and lower, experiment with Kelso Shrugs...

There are many different variations of "Kelso Shrugs." For example, in one variation, instead of doing your shrugs standing straight up and down, you may do them either bent over like a row or completely horizontal on a bench, for example:

From
(http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/LatShrug1.JPG)
to
(http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/LatShrug2.JPG)
and repeat.

http://www.weighttrainersunited.com/latshrug.html

This targets the middle portion of the traps as opposed to the upper portion, and will bring out your middle back thickness if that is an area you need to target. Try them, it really works!

My favorite shrug variation is on a low pulley. Try it, you'll love it to death. Go to the cable machine, set it on the low pulley, attach a straight bar, and sit on the ground on your butt with your legs straight. Get close enough you can just reach the bar, and secure your feet by having so much weight to push on you won't move when you shrug the stack. Be far enough back there is slight tension (no slack) in the cable. Shrug the weight straight back by squeezing your blades together as hard as you can. You can go VERY heavy on them and they work tremendously well!

There are many, many productive variations of shrugs to target certain areas. Basically, the more tilted forward, toward the weight, your upper body is, the lower on the traps you will stimulate. See, our conventional method of standing shrugs targets the upper-most part and we're missing out! For more info, check out this brilliant work.:
(http://www.wheatmark.com/covers/1587361167.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Kelsos-Shrug-Book-Paul-Kelso/dp/1587361167/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228650904&sr=1-1

Take note, though, you don't want to do too much volume (variation). Maybe one hard, heavy set to failure for your upper traps with standing shrugs then one heavy set to failure with some variation of Kelso shrugs to target either the middle or lower portion. If you're going to do standing shrugs then another variation, I'd recommend the one you're adding to be this variation Donkey Kong recommended in another thread...here's how he described it:

"get a cable with a rope attached into the upper position, like if you wanted to do triceps pulldowns. Now what you do is not grap the rope like you would on cable pulldowns, but you reach under the rope and grap the rope from behind.

Now when you put up your arms, the arms should be in a position like on close grop lat pulldowns. hands are about at height a bit above your ears.

What you do now is to pull your elbows BACK as much as you can and flex the traps in the end."


This will target the lower-middle portion; the part the standing shrugs, which target the upper traps moreso, don't so much. Good luck!
I cannot wait to try this. Thanks for the info..
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: QuakerOats on December 08, 2008, 04:45:35 PM
speaking of trap training here's Brian Siders training his.

http://www.ironscene.com/videos/1390_brian_siders_likes_to_train_traps_:)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Rimbaud on December 08, 2008, 04:58:55 PM
yes !!!
 the meaning of shrugs is to lift with your traps, people train so heavy that they lift with their arm, legs all the body exept the traps.

Exactly. There's nothing like watching some clown grab the 150lb dumbbells or have about 500lbs on a barbell & do the gyrating "shrugs".
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: ngm21084 on December 08, 2008, 05:15:30 PM
Any of you guys try seated dumbbell shrugs as heavy as possible??
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Rimbaud on December 08, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
Any of you guys try seated dumbbell shrugs as heavy as possible??

I like them...but like I said just not as heavy. I want to feel it more in my traps.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Get Rowdy on December 08, 2008, 06:07:19 PM
I prefer full ROM on shrugs when I do them, than just going heavy as possible.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 06:10:25 PM
I prefer full ROM on shrugs when I do them, than just going heavy as possible.
Do you do circles or just straight up and down?
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: chaos on December 08, 2008, 06:15:15 PM
Do you do circles or just straight up and down?
I like to use the angled smith machine when I do them sometimes, you pull up and back. :)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 06:30:39 PM
I like to use the angled smith machine when I do them sometimes, you pull up and back. :)
chaos, are you kidding me, if you did that the smith machine would fucking snap!

How much weight do you use for that? I have a hard time believing the machine would hold enough...
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: chaos on December 08, 2008, 06:45:12 PM
chaos, are you kidding me, if you did that the smith machine would fucking snap!

How much weight do you use for that? I have a hard time believing the machine would hold enough...
4 plates per side. I like the way it hits the "meat" of the traps.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 06:58:24 PM
4 plates per side. I like the way it hits the "meat" of the traps.

Yeah, I could see how an angled smith would work well for that, because it would force you to lift it back as well, not just up, which is the most difficult direction to pull the weight and would hit a larger portion of the traps. That actually may be the best way to do them, good call.  ;)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Get Rowdy on December 08, 2008, 07:23:22 PM
Do you do circles or just straight up and down?

Straight up and down with dumbbells.
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: chaos on December 08, 2008, 07:34:29 PM
Yeah, I could see how an angled smith would work well for that, because it would force you to lift it back as well, not just up, which is the most difficult direction to pull the weight and would hit a larger portion of the traps. That actually may be the best way to do them, good call.  ;)
You mean that?
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 07:39:54 PM
You mean that?

Of course, it's a valid point. Pretty brilliant one, too, I actually never thought of that.  ;)

Here we are trying to figure out how to hit all parts of the traps and you've got the solution right there, ANGLED SMITH, it forces you to pull not just up, not just back, but both back and up, therefore utilizing the entire traps, not just part. Brilliant point, chaos.  ;)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: chaos on December 08, 2008, 07:48:15 PM
Of course, it's a valid point. Pretty brilliant one, too, I actually never thought of that.  ;)

Here we are trying to figure out how to hit all parts of the traps and you've got the solution right there, ANGLED SMITH, it forces you to pull not just up, not just back, but both back and up, therefore utilizing the entire traps, not just part. Brilliant point, chaos.  ;)
Almost like I thought it through, huh? ;)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 07:54:07 PM
Almost like I thought it through, huh? ;)
Well shit I know you're brilliant, I'm just trying to be a positive influence in your life in order to at least gradually anchor your brilliance to noble means, to helping people. It's obvious you have a lot to offer to others. Your contribution to this thread was an all-out solution we were all trying to think of, pure genius.  ;)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: chaos on December 08, 2008, 07:55:31 PM
Well shit I know you're brilliant, I'm just trying to be a positive influence in your life in order to at least gradually anchor your brilliance to noble means, to helping people. It's obvious you have a lot to offer to others. Your contribution to this thread was an all-out solution we were all trying to think of, pure genius.  ;)
I'd appreciate it if you could delete this post, I have a reputation to uphold and you're going to fuck it up. >:(
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 07:59:43 PM
I'd appreciate it if you could delete this post, I have a reputation to uphold and you're going to fuck it up. >:(
This may sound strange, chaos, but...
it would be even more amusing to you if you always tried to help people.
Obviously you're capable of it, you just need to realize that even you would like it more if you'd do that all the time.  ;)

Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: chaos on December 08, 2008, 08:07:06 PM
This may sound strange, chaos, but...
it would be even more amusing to you if you always tried to help people.
Obviously you're capable of it, you just need to realize that even you would like it more if you'd do that all the time.  ;)


We've had this discussion, queerbait.

When are you going to post your pic?
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 08:21:28 PM
We've had this discussion, queerbait.

When are you going to post your pic?
Did my kind talk make you horny?
When I'm nice to you it makes you want to see my body more?  ::)
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: chaos on December 08, 2008, 08:25:58 PM
Did my kind talk make you horny?
When I'm nice to you it makes you want to see my body more?  ::)
Yes, post topless pics, bitch!!
Title: Re: Heavy Shrugs
Post by: Soundness on December 08, 2008, 08:28:06 PM
Yes, post topless pics, bitch!!
If I see a few more posts like the one I saw in this thread, I'll think about it.  ;)