Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: io856 on December 14, 2008, 03:25:55 AM
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(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/candidate2025/dennismm.jpg)
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Gear and amazing genetics?
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Gear and amazing genetics?
I think the steroid board would appreciate this 100x more than people who have not tried to take it to the next level.
Without a doubt there is a lot behind this. Its not really known what the ballpark amounts of substances are used to achieve this.
Yeah sure you could talk about mega-dosing, insulin and gh etc.
There are so many smaller issues that are involved... megadosing for example, how does one avoid all the scar tissue from repeated injections... I mean after a 15 week cycle in my early days my glutes were almost useless for injection... just one example... what about the effects of certain site injections and how they affect the look of the muscle when they need to be presentable to make money... how is all that oil not showing up as lumps at such low bodyfat on stage
Then some people even have the audacity to suggest synthol is a contributing factor to this awesome development. I will be honest here and say I have tried that shit. You know how fucking badly that shit makes a muscle redundant and useless. I mean shit you would be lucky to train any of the muscle surrounding or getting supported by that muscle. Injecting 10mls into a muscle each and every day while on synthol is often recommended. I mean fucking hell the people who are willing to sit there pinning 6 times into a muscle every day over multiple days deserve muscle! but all they get is lumps, shitty bruising and an inability to train a muscle they want to GROW! Synthol don't do shit! (perhaps nolotil is used like gh15 suggested)
All this speculation and this bullshit by us all who sit behind keyboards recommending 750mgs test a week to kiddies... What the hell is involved we do not know. I mean why is there people on steroid boards with 16inch arms and <400lbs squats then professional bodybuilders with 21inch arms and >700lb squats. When you think about it... hooooooooooooooooly shit there is a huge difference there. What the fucck is going on...sorry boys but I want in...
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sorry boys but I want in...
me too !
ahhh my old avatar... im putting it back up !
fuck dennis looks goddamn rediculously massive and amazing.
i want i want i want to look like that !!!
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It's genetics and response to hormones. That's the bottom line.
In the old days you only saw guys with amazing genetics competing because the drug use was moderate compared to today. Guys without amazing genetics could not hang.
Today, you have guys with half ass genetics that are huge due to enormous amounts of drugs and it's really disgusting to see them onstage. I won't name names, but there are a lot of them that have no business being on a stage. They have a great response to hormones, but terrible shape.
The guys with the amazing genetics and shape that take the same enormous amounts of drugs look like Dennis.
IDK, maybe this is all just stating the obvious...
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It's genetics and response to hormones. That's the bottom line.
In the old days you only saw guys with amazing genetics competing because the drug use was moderate compared to today. Guys without amazing genetics could not hang.
Today, you have guys with half ass genetics that are huge due to enormous amounts of drugs and it's really disgusting to see them onstage. I won't name names, but there are a lot of them that have no business being on a stage. They have a great response to hormones, but terrible shape.
The guys with the amazing genetics and shape that take the same enormous amounts of drugs look like Dennis.
IDK, maybe this is all just stating the obvious...
i dont think this is true at all. drug use was extreme, maybe even more extreme in regards to total AAS, back in the 'golden age". nowdays, its not more AAS, but a more wide variety of different hormones. thats why you see bigger guys, because now they use insulin and growth hormone and prostaglandins and thyroid hormones and god knows what else on top of the mega dose AAS.
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The same way this is possible without gears.
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/x31001.jpg)
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I think the steroid board would appreciate this 100x more than people who have not tried to take it to the next level.
Without a doubt there is a lot behind this. Its not really known what the ballpark amounts of substances are used to achieve this.
Yeah sure you could talk about mega-dosing, insulin and gh etc.
There are so many smaller issues that are involved... megadosing for example, how does one avoid all the scar tissue from repeated injections... I mean after a 15 week cycle in my early days my glutes were almost useless for injection... just one example... what about the effects of certain site injections and how they affect the look of the muscle when they need to be presentable to make money... how is all that oil not showing up as lumps at such low bodyfat on stage
Then some people even have the audacity to suggest synthol is a contributing factor to this awesome development. I will be honest here and say I have tried that shit. You know how fucking badly that shit makes a muscle redundant and useless. I mean shit you would be lucky to train any of the muscle surrounding or getting supported by that muscle. Injecting 10mls into a muscle each and every day while on synthol is often recommended. I mean fucking hell the people who are willing to sit there pinning 6 times into a muscle every day over multiple days deserve muscle! but all they get is lumps, shitty bruising and an inability to train a muscle they want to GROW! Synthol don't do shit! (perhaps nolotil is used like gh15 suggested)
All this speculation and this bullshit by us all who sit behind keyboards recommending 750mgs test a week to kiddies... What the hell is involved we do not know. I mean why is there people on steroid boards with 16inch arms and <400lbs squats then professional bodybuilders with 21inch arms and >700lb squats. When you think about it... hooooooooooooooooly shit there is a huge difference there. What the fucck is going on...sorry boys but I want in...
there are probably 2 pro bodybuilders in the world with a legitimate 700 pound squat, you make it sound liek it's commonplace, i'll gaurantee you MOST pros don't even squat, most of them do hacks and presses.
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there are probably 2 pro bodybuilders in the world with a legitimate 700 pound squat, you make it sound liek it's commonplace, i'll gaurantee you MOST pros don't even squat, most of them do hacks and presses.
QFT.
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there are probably 2 pro bodybuilders in the world with a legitimate 700 pound squat, you make it sound liek it's commonplace, i'll gaurantee you MOST pros don't even squat, most of them do hacks and presses.
Yeah I agree
I was just pointing out an extreme, sorry for that
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in his case I believe the build he sports happened one slow pound at a time.
he looks like a man who forced every single pound of his mass to come into existence through exceptional amounts of drugs.
he looks to be sheer will and high volume of drugs as opposed to elite genetics... he has a good frame but he's not some type of *hyper responder* to steroids... me thinks not.
in other words the fucker had to go to extremes for years and years.. and work his ass off for that body.
its a work of art - god bless him.
great response
thanks for that
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I think the steroid board would appreciate this 100x more than people who have not tried to take it to the next level.
Without a doubt there is a lot behind this. Its not really known what the ballpark amounts of substances are used to achieve this.
Yeah sure you could talk about mega-dosing, insulin and gh etc.
There are so many smaller issues that are involved... megadosing for example, how does one avoid all the scar tissue from repeated injections... I mean after a 15 week cycle in my early days my glutes were almost useless for injection... just one example... what about the effects of certain site injections and how they affect the look of the muscle when they need to be presentable to make money... how is all that oil not showing up as lumps at such low bodyfat on stage
Then some people even have the audacity to suggest synthol is a contributing factor to this awesome development. I will be honest here and say I have tried that shit. You know how fucking badly that shit makes a muscle redundant and useless. I mean shit you would be lucky to train any of the muscle surrounding or getting supported by that muscle. Injecting 10mls into a muscle each and every day while on synthol is often recommended. I mean fucking hell the people who are willing to sit there pinning 6 times into a muscle every day over multiple days deserve muscle! but all they get is lumps, shitty bruising and an inability to train a muscle they want to GROW! Synthol don't do shit! (perhaps nolotil is used like gh15 suggested)
All this speculation and this bullshit by us all who sit behind keyboards recommending 750mgs test a week to kiddies... What the hell is involved we do not know. I mean why is there people on steroid boards with 16inch arms and <400lbs squats then professional bodybuilders with 21inch arms and >700lb squats. When you think about it... hooooooooooooooooly shit there is a huge difference there. What the fucck is going on...sorry boys but I want in...
ever tried rotating injection sites? ::)
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the ballpark amounts are known.. I've been hanging around bodybuilders my entire life... I've known some huge guys..
the guys that are at that next level inject by the *bottle*... not by the milliliter.
do you know what I mean? I've seen it - ridicules amounts... its just not a big deal once you accept the practice.
that may not be true for so and so... but the guys I know that carry extreme mass take very large amounts of anabolics.
It would be interesting if we could get a reliable sources to chime in......I too think that at that level they inject by the bottle, but I have known some 1k-2k test ew users that weren't even half the size of DJ .....maybe he is a hyper responder (genetics)...or maybe all these guys know something we don't know....
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i dont think this is true at all. drug use was extreme, maybe even more extreme in regards to total AAS, back in the 'golden age". nowdays, its not more AAS, but a more wide variety of different hormones. thats why you see bigger guys, because now they use insulin and growth hormone and prostaglandins and thyroid hormones and god knows what else on top of the mega dose AAS.
I'm talking back in the days of Arnold. You just did not see guys with half ass genetics at the pro level simply because they took a lot of drugs. They all had awesome genetics or they could not compete. These days thats not always the case. I could name mutliple guys competing today that could not have competed back in the day.
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I'm talking back in the days of Arnold. You just did not see guys with half ass genetics at the pro level simply because they took a lot of drugs. They all had awesome genetics or they could not compete. These days thats not always the case. I could name mutliple guys competing today that could not have competed back in the day.
no, see, i am talkin about in arnolds day. and those guys, even arnold, having normal genetics, and using mega doses of AAS to achieve their size. thats hwo elite bodybuiilding always has been (since AAS) and always will be... a body with "shit genetics" mostly refers to that bodys natural hormone levels... any body who is on AAS..then their genetics are equivelant to their doses....although certain individuals might respond better to anabolics than others..thats because of other hormonal levels not yet messed with.. two guys on AAS but one responds better...beause of his natural levels of insulin, gh, t3, production of prostaglandins..ect ect.. at the pro level guys will create their own genetics..
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ever tried rotating injection sites? ::)
I injected in each cheek once a week buddy
You are on your first cycle right? why are you rolling eyes at me?
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no, see, i am talkin about in arnolds day. and those guys, even arnold, having normal genetics, and using mega doses of AAS to achieve their size. thats hwo elite bodybuiilding always has been (since AAS) and always will be... a body with "shit genetics" mostly refers to that bodys natural hormone levels... any body who is on AAS..then their genetics are equivelant to their doses....although certain individuals might respond better to anabolics than others..thats because of other hormonal levels not yet messed with.. two guys on AAS but one responds better...beause of his natural levels of insulin, gh, t3, production of prostaglandins..ect ect.. at the pro level guys will create their own genetics..
I agree with some of what you are saying, but Arnold in particular or any of the bodybuilders (I can think of) during his time did not have "normal" or "average" genetics. It sounds like you think that anyone, regardless of genetics, can become a pro with enough drugs. You know I'm not picking on you. I just worrry that your belief will get you some serious health issues down the road.
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I injected in each cheek once a week buddy
You are on your first cycle right? why are you rolling eyes at me?
There are so many areas to inject..its not that hard to get lots of oil into the body , add orals etc and you can get huge amounts of MG over a week period..Though it does get very tiresome and DJ has been doin it for many years..first step would be move to Thailand and open a gym :D
DJ is what 5ft6 ? pitty he looks good until he hits the stage then turns to poo.
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no, see, i am talkin about in arnolds day. and those guys, even arnold, having normal genetics, and using mega doses of AAS to achieve their size. thats hwo elite bodybuiilding always has been (since AAS) and always will be... a body with "shit genetics" mostly refers to that bodys natural hormone levels... any body who is on AAS..then their genetics are equivelant to their doses....although certain individuals might respond better to anabolics than others..thats because of other hormonal levels not yet messed with.. two guys on AAS but one responds better...beause of his natural levels of insulin, gh, t3, production of prostaglandins..ect ect.. at the pro level guys will create their own genetics..
Got to disagree with you. If this were true I'd be a pro myself a long time ago.
As for Arnold, some of the best genetics of all time. IMO, if Arnold had been a BB today, knowing what we know about training and nutrition he would have been a lot bigger and tighter. Arnold was his own worst enemy when it came to training. Sure it was perfect back then, but it could have been better....but you can say that about anyone or anything. Either way, Arnold is still the best of all time.
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Got to disagree with you. If this were true I'd be a pro myself a long time ago.
As for Arnold, some of the best genetics of all time. IMO, if Arnold had been a BB today, knowing what we know about training and nutrition he would have been a lot bigger and tighter. Arnold was his own worst enemy when it came to training. Sure it was perfect back then, but it could have been better....but you can say that about anyone or anything. Either way, Arnold is still the best of all time.
yeah somebody saying Arnold has "average" genetics is off base. If Arnold competed modern day he may have looked similar to that Gunter guy. But I think Arnold would have had more drive so he would be better than Gunter ever was.
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Arnold was his own worst enemy when it came to training.
Please elaborate.
I have the view that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to training and dieting. It's not more scientific today, at least 99.9% of pros' training or diet. We know more wrt what makes a muscle grow, but even knowing this, training and diet wouldn't be, and isn't, much different. And look at Palumbo's or Disgusted diets for example. Disgusted even said his diet is an adaptation of Gironda's diet...
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Then some people even have the audacity to suggest synthol is a contributing factor to this awesome development. I will be honest here and say I have tried that shit. You know how fucking badly that shit makes a muscle redundant and useless. I mean shit you would be lucky to train any of the muscle surrounding or getting supported by that muscle. Injecting 10mls into a muscle each and every day while on synthol is often recommended. I mean fucking hell the people who are willing to sit there pinning 6 times into a muscle every day over multiple days deserve muscle! but all they get is lumps, shitty bruising and an inability to train a muscle they want to GROW! Synthol don't do shit! (perhaps nolotil is used like gh15 suggested)
Did you buy into the professionalmuscle hype of Synthol giving you 100% natural looking size? :'( :D
Yet I haven't seen one example on that board where it has enhanced a physique. The examples of "proper use of Synthol" they give I could spot a mile away.
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Please elaborate.
I have the view that there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to training and dieting. It's not more scientific today, at least 99.9% of pros' training or diet. We know more wrt what makes a muscle grow, but even knowing this, training and diet wouldn't be, and isn't, much different. And look at Palumbo's or Disgusted diets for example. Disgusted even said his diet is an adaptation of Gironda's diet...
Back in Arnold's day there was no conception of rest. The more is better idea is what he and many others lived by.
He trained each body part 3x/wk and he didn't just train each body part 3x/wk but he annihilated each body part 3x/wk.
Look at his encyclopedia...it's a great book but the training routines are outrageous. Squats, balls to the wall 3x/wk, dead lifts balls to the wall 3x/wk, etc.
I was at an Arnold Q&A 4 years ago and someone asked him about shoulder training. They wanted to know what the best was to build shoulders was and what they needed to be doing. Arnold said every time you trained shoulders if you didn't complete at least 20 sets you were wasting your time. He said 30 sets would be more like it and that you should do this several times a week.
Guys back in Arnold's day also didn't have their BF quite as low as many do now. Yes they were ripped and in fabulous shape but they didn't manipulate their nutrient intake during contest diets like many do today...there was more of an idea that calories are equal to some extent. We now know this just isn't true.
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Back in Arnold's day there was no conception of rest. The more is better idea is what he and many others lived by.
He trained each body part 3x/wk and he didn't just train each body part 3x/wk but he annihilated each body part 3x/wk.
Look at his encyclopedia...it's a great book but the training routines are outrageous. Squats, balls to the wall 3x/wk, dead lifts balls to the wall 3x/wk, etc.
I was at an Arnold Q&A 4 years ago and someone asked him about shoulder training. They wanted to know what the best was to build shoulders was and what they needed to be doing. Arnold said every time you trained shoulders if you didn't complete at least 20 sets you were wasting your time. He said 30 sets would be more like it and that you should do this several times a week.
Guys back in Arnold's day also didn't have their BF quite as low as many do now. Yes they were ripped and in fabulous shape but they didn't manipulate their nutrient intake during contest diets like many do today...there was more of an idea that calories are equal to some extent. We now know this just isn't true.
I haven't read that book (and Arnold didn't write anything so who knows if it's factual :D) but I was under the impression that he trained each bodypart 2x weekly (double split)? If he did train like that the intensity would be quite low by necessity too. You do not do 30 all out sets for each bodypart 3x a week, no one can do that. I'm sure it was real playful type of training most of the time, with intensity increasing just before shows.
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Got to disagree with you. If this were true I'd be a pro myself a long time ago.
you said yourself youve never used anything more than 1250mg test. you said yourself you know for a fact that most pros maitain on 2g test and use 3.5 grams test to build. and theyr on all year.
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
As for Arnold, some of the best genetics of all time. IMO, if Arnold had been a BB today, knowing what we know about training and nutrition he would have been a lot bigger and tighter. Arnold was his own worst enemy when it came to training. Sure it was perfect back then, but it could have been better....but you can say that about anyone or anything. Either way, Arnold is still the best of all time.
arnold didnt have great genetics..looka t him when he came off...shrank to nothing at all immidetly... and look at pictures of him as a child....skinny, skinny, skinny..and look at his parents...neither of them have good bodies. arnolds physique when he looked his best = years and years aof HARD training, lots of protein, LOTS of AAS.
as far as the nutrition and training... arnold trains as hard or harder than any bodybuilder...dorian ronnie..whatever. you can only train so hard, and arnold did so. so the training point is moot. as far as the diet, arnold dieted on steak and eggs with a rotating carb up up... which isnt that prety much exactly the diet you love so much? and that palumbo loves so much?
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Back in Arnold's day there was no conception of rest. The more is better idea is what he and many others lived by.
He trained each body part 3x/wk and he didn't just train each body part 3x/wk but he annihilated each body part 3x/wk.
Look at his encyclopedia...it's a great book but the training routines are outrageous. Squats, balls to the wall 3x/wk, dead lifts balls to the wall 3x/wk, etc.
I was at an Arnold Q&A 4 years ago and someone asked him about shoulder training. They wanted to know what the best was to build shoulders was and what they needed to be doing. Arnold said every time you trained shoulders if you didn't complete at least 20 sets you were wasting your time. He said 30 sets would be more like it and that you should do this several times a week.
Guys back in Arnold's day also didn't have their BF quite as low as many do now. Yes they were ripped and in fabulous shape but they didn't manipulate their nutrient intake during contest diets like many do today...there was more of an idea that calories are equal to some extent. We now know this just isn't true.
3 times a week is a great way to train. :) this is because the bulk of the protein synthesis that occurs from a training bout occurs within the firts 48-72 hour...and even within that time frame, really, the true bulk of the growth occurs within the first few hours post training.
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I think I have decent genetics, but I wish I had 1/4 of Arnold's.
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I haven't read that book (and Arnold didn't write anything so who knows if it's factual :D) but I was under the impression that he trained each bodypart 2x weekly (double split)? If he did train like that the intensity would be quite low by necessity too. You do not do 30 all out sets for each bodypart 3x a week, no one can do that. I'm sure it was real playful type of training most of the time, with intensity increasing just before shows.
According to Arnold, and when he said this he was being very serious, he said training back in the Gold's days was not a joke...he said Pumping Iron showed a lot of the playful atmosphere but that was just for the movie. Maybe he was full of crap when he said this, I don't know, but according to him it was always balls to the wall every time. Maybe Keith will chime in on this...I'll ask him since he was there.
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you said yourself youve never used anything more than 1250mg test. you said yourself you know for a fact that most pros maitain on 2g test and use 3.5 grams test to build. and theyr on all year.
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
1350mg test....if I said 1250mg it was a typo. I also spoke of one of the last 3 Olympia winners that I know for fact maintains on 1g/wk and 2g/wk for off-season.
arnold didnt have great genetics..looka t him when he came off...shrank to nothing at all immidetly... and look at pictures of him as a child....skinny, skinny, skinny..and look at his parents...neither of them have good bodies. arnolds physique when he looked his best = years and years aof HARD training, lots of protein, LOTS of AAS.
Are you talking about now that he is 60? Or simply the post competition days? Hard to say he didn't look great all through the 80's and 90's
as far as the nutrition and training... arnold trains as hard or harder than any bodybuilder...dorian ronnie..whatever. you can only train so hard, and arnold did so. so the training point is moot. as far as the diet, arnold dieted on steak and eggs with a rotating carb up up... which isnt that prety much exactly the diet you love so much? and that palumbo loves so much?
Arnold trained harder then any bodybuilder ever, I agree. As for his diet, he would eat a lot of carbs throughout, carbs that most wouldn't touch in a diet today...but he had the genetics to get away with it.
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Are you talking about now that he is 60? Or simply the post competition days? Hard to say he didn't look great all through the 80's and 90's
Arnold trained harder then any bodybuilder ever, I agree. As for his diet, he would eat a lot of carbs throughout, carbs that most wouldn't touch in a diet today...but he had the genetics to get away with it.
Arnold off the sauce:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/225/508414145_390bf769b6_b.jpg)
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/225/508414145_390bf769b6_b.jpg)
he looks healthy but he was 170 - 180 pounds between contests/acting classes.
Didnt he say he purposefully dieted down at one point in an attempt to become more "mainstream"? He didnt' like it/couldn't deal being that skinny so he let his weight come back up and struggled until Conan.
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Didnt he say he purposefully dieted down at one point in an attempt to become more "mainstream"? He didnt' like it/couldn't deal being that skinny so he let his weight come back up and struggled until Conan.
this was early in his pro bbing career, not after his career was finished..
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Arnold came in all shapes and sizes :)