Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: The Coach on December 23, 2008, 05:22:16 PM
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http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081223&content_id=3726572&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp
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brutal jealousy the Angels couldn't sign Texiera. ;D
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thats exactly what's wrong with baseball
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thats exactly what's wrong with baseball
agreed
baseball is more corrupt than bodybuilding
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brutal jealousy the Angels couldn't sign Texiera. ;D
Not at all, I was perfectly happy with Casey Kotchman before Texiera came along. IMO, Kotchman was a great fit for Anaheim. I knew as soon as Texiera signed only a year deal he'd be on the blocks and gone. FYI, it was the Angels who took the deal off the table.
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agreed
baseball is more corrupt than bodybuilding
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How did you come up with that?
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How did you come up with that?
there is more fairness in bodybuilding than baseball
small market teams trying to compete with the yankees every year is like stepping on stage without the juice
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Earl, even with the hugh payroll the Yankees have along with the talent doesn't guaranty a title. They haven't won in a long time and got blown out of playoffs for the last 3 or so years.
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Earl, even with the hugh payroll the Yankees have along with the talent doesn't guaranty a title. They haven't won in a long time and got blown out of playoffs for the last 3 or so years.
wouldn't you say that it gives them a HUGE advantage?
there aren't too many teams that can try to buy a champion, like you said the yankees are
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wouldn't you say that it gives them a HUGE advantage?
there aren't too many teams that can try to buy a champion, like you said the yankees are
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To get to the post season? Yes. To win in the post season? Not since 2000 I believe.
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Earl, even with the hugh payroll the Yankees have along with the talent doesn't guaranty a title. They haven't won in a long time and got blown out of playoffs for the last 3 or so years.
you can fit 5 teams payrolls into the Yankee's payroll.not to mention cc sabathia,and a rod make more than entire teams.if you think thats OK your dumber than I ever thought.
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you can fit 5 teams payrolls into the Yankee's payroll.not to mention cc sabathia,and a rod make more than entire teams.if you think thats OK your dumber than I ever thought.
Never said it wasn't a huge advantage....what I'm saying it doesn't guaranty anything but Steinbrenners kid firing his manager. That being said, I have no problem with any team paying what they think they need to pay. Like Clemens, what a waste of $$$ but it was the Yankees waste of $$$.
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If a team has the financial leverage to acquire top talent and doesn't use that leverage then they are stupid. It's bad business. At least the Yankees take their revenues and pour it back into their team. Chad Polhad, the owner of the Twins could buy Steinbrenner 10x over but won't invest it because he's a cheap bastard. A lot of teams take the revenue sharing they receive from the Yankees and line their own pockets rather than putting it back on the field.
Yes, the Yankees have an advantage financially, but fortunately the game of baseball can be altered by one man on the mound having a good game on any day, and that advantage doesn't necessarily guarantee anything when the post season starts. The dynasty of the late 90s were not store bought teams, they were a mix of home grown talent, good FA signings and good trades. But that's not why they won. It doesn't matter if the talent is home grown or acquired via FA or trades, it's just matters if they're good or not.
Cap said the financial advantage helps get you to the postseason but doesn't guarantee anything after and that is spot on. The playoffs are a combination of talent, timing, and luck. 2 hot pitchers can win your team a post season. It's why, since 2000, there have been 8 different WS champions.
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If a team has the financial leverage to acquire top talent and doesn't use that leverage then they are stupid. It's bad business. At least the Yankees take their revenues and pour it back into their team. Chad Polhad, the owner of the Twins could buy Steinbrenner 10x over but won't invest it because he's a cheap bastard. A lot of teams take the revenue sharing they receive from the Yankees and line their own pockets rather than putting it back on the field.
Yes, the Yankees have an advantage financially, but fortunately the game of baseball can be altered by one man on the mound having a good game on any day, and that advantage doesn't necessarily guarantee anything when the post season starts. The dynasty of the late 90s were not store bought teams, they were a mix of home grown talent, good FA signings and good trades. But that's not why they won. It doesn't matter if the talent is home grown or acquired via FA or trades, it's just matters if they're good or not.
Cap said the financial advantage helps get you to the postseason but doesn't guarantee anything after and that is spot on. The playoffs are a combination of talent, timing, and luck. 2 hot pitchers can win your team a post season. It's why, since 2000, there have been 8 different WS champions.
If that where the case the Yankees would have a title in the last 8 years. What about the Tigers over the last couple of years? They broke the bank and they didn't win shit. A core of homegrown talent has been proven to win titles over the last 8 years. When injuries hit, the players you are plugging in must be good players. The Yankees have all the big names now, but the fact is that they are chasing the sox, not vice versa. The sox have a stronger farm system. Look at guys like Padrioa, Youk, Lester, Masterson, Paplebon, Ellsbury and Lowery as proof.
The Yankees are going to be very good this year, but IMO buying big names has not worked for them in the last 8 years, and I don't see it working now. I would have liked to see the sox get Tex, but even with Tex 70% of the team is homegrown talent. The sox have the prospects to make a move. It ain't over yet.
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If that where the case the Yankees would have a title in the last 8 years. What about the Tigers over the last couple of years? They broke the bank and they didn't win shit. A core of homegrown talent has been proven to win titles over the last 8 years. When injuries hit, the players you are plugging in must be good players. The Yankees have all the big names now, but the fact is that they are chasing the sox, not vice versa. The sox have a stronger farm system. Look at guys like Padrioa, Youk, Lester, Masterson, Paplebon, Ellsbury and Lowery as proof.
The 2004 sox won the WS with ONE player from their farm system in the starting lineup. It was a completely store bought team, with hardly any homegrown talent.
The Yankees didn't loose because they spent money. They lost because they spent money on bad players, had injuries and a few bad breaks.
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The 2004 sox won the WS with ONE player from their farm system in the starting lineup. It was a completely store bought team, with hardly any homegrown talent.
The Yankees didn't loose because they spent money. They lost because they spent money on bad players, had injuries and a few bad breaks.
I said the success the sox have had over last few years was due to their farm system. The Yankees farm system is not as strong as the sox, plain and simple. The yankees have put an allstar team on the field 8 times over the last 8 years. They won one playoff series in that time. The sox had just as many bad breaks and injuries as the Yankees down the stretch last year, and they were one game away from another world series. Thats because they have depth.
I'm going to ignore the injury/bad break comment you made, because that is not an excuse. Every team in the MLB can cite examples of injuries or bad breaks that cost them wins. The teams with the depth to compensate succeed.
In regards to the Yankees spending money on bad players, of course the spending of that money cost them to lose. At the time that money was being spent, the yanks continued to put less emphasis on developing players of their own, and in their mind the money that they were spending was worthwhile, and in their mind it would put their team over the top. Who's to say that Burnett (a guy who had two good season during contract years, and a long injury history), is going to buck that trend and be worth the cash they dropped on him? You can say that the Yankees spending money on BAD PLAYERS was the cause of their woes, but those same guys who chose to spend that money on those players is spending money again on new players. The bottom line is that the Yankees spending has not worked for them. It would be an anomaly if that tactic worked for them this year (considering the results of doing the same thing over the last eight years).
I believe that if the Yankees had spent more time developing their own players, they would not have to spend 400+ million to compete with the Sox and the Rays. The Yankees were not in the top ten of runs scored last year, is all this spending going to make them that much better (to be far and away the most potent O in the MLB). The spending on pitching makes more sense, but is CC, Wong and Burnett going to be that much better than Becket, Lester and Dice K, or the product that the Rays rotate every week? I think the Tex deal was a good one, but if injuries hit are the yankees going to have the depth it takes to get over the hump?
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I said the success the sox have had over last few years was due to their farm system. The Yankees farm system is not as strong as the sox, plain and simple. The yankees have put an allstar team on the field 8 times over the last 8 years. They won one playoff series in that time. The sox had just as many bad breaks and injuries as the Yankees down the stretch last year, and they were one game away from another world series. Thats because they have depth.
The Yankees did not have a strong pitching staff during those years.
I'm going to ignore the injury/bad break comment you made, because that is not an excuse. Every team in the MLB can cite examples of injuries or bad breaks that cost them wins. The teams with the depth to compensate succeed.
I agree about depth. But there's a point where it catches up, no matter what. Loosing your #1, 2, and 3 starters, starting C, and starting LF is too much for any team. These were not injuries that were filled with stop gaps, these were season enders.
In regards to the Yankees spending money on bad players, of course the spending of that money cost them to lose. At the time that money was being spent, the yanks continued to put less emphasis on developing players of their own, and in their mind the money that they were spending was worthwhile, and in their mind it would put their team over the top. Who's to say that Burnett (a guy who had two good season during contract years, and a long injury history), is going to buck that trend and be worth the cash they dropped on him? You can say that the Yankees spending money on BAD PLAYERS was the cause of their woes, but those same guys who chose to spend that money on those players is spending money again on new players. The bottom line is that the Yankees spending has not worked for them. It would be an anomaly if that tactic worked for them this year (considering the results of doing the same thing over the last eight years).
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. The Yankees did not put less emphasis on developing players. They just haven't had as many prospects "hit". But, in that time, they have produced Cano, Wang, and Chamberlain, which are two #1, 1A type pitchers, and an all-star second baseman. Nobody in the farms system was blocked because of free agent signings. Plus, I know their farm system, and they're stacked at A and AA. Player development takes time.
I agree about Burnett. It's a high risk/high reward signing. Sabathia and Teixeira are not.
I believe that if the Yankees had spent more time developing their own players, they would not have to spend 400+ million to compete with the Sox and the Rays.
The sox were ready to spend 170+ million on Teixeira. Why would they do that since they've supposedly spent "more time" developing their own players? Why did the sox need to overspend on JD Drew, Julio Lugo and Varitek if they're farm system is so stacked?
The Yankees were not in the top ten of runs scored last year, is all this spending going to make them that much better (to be far and away the most potent O in the MLB).
The Yankees had season ending injuries to Posada and Hideki Matsui last year, and a horrible year from Cano. They will score many more runs this year.
The spending on pitching makes more sense, but is CC, Wong and Burnett going to be that much better than Becket, Lester and Dice K, or the product that the Rays rotate every week?
Provided Pettitte signs,
Sabathia/Wang/Burnett/Chamberlain/Pettitte is better than Beckett/Lester/Matzusaka/Wakefield/Masterson or Bucchholz, at least according to what I've read so far.
I think the Tex deal was a good one, but if injuries hit are the yankees going to have the depth it takes to get over the hump?
It depends on who gets hurt and for how long. Just like boston.
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Grape Ape makes some great points. The idea that the Yankees have given up on player development is a ridiculous. It simply takes time, and even then with their payroll they have absolutely no reason to rely soley on their farm. They should be in competition for the biggest names available. CC Sabathia and Mark Teixeira are worth much more than any prospect or draft pick.
On the flip side, it's hysterical reading Boston fans try to pretend their franchise is made up of grindy gritty home grown guys. Their only other WS in 89 years featured virtually no home grown talent.
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For a while, I thought the Yankees would take 3 Brewers, but as of now, only looks like they're satisfied with just CC. Sheets is too much of a liability, but when he's on, he's tough. As far as Cameron, just because he's friends with CC, doesn't mean he's good...he's a strikeout king.
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For a while, I thought the Yankees would take 3 Brewers, but as of now, only looks like they're satisfied with just CC. Sheets is too much of a liability, but when he's on, he's tough. As far as Cameron, just because he's friends with CC, doesn't mean he's good...he's a strikeout king.
I think Cameron would be a good one year bridge to Austin Jackson. I thought the Yanks or Sox would be in on Sheets, but it looks like they're not interested, most likely due to his recent injury.
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TEXIERA was good move,cc is a lock,burnett scares me a bit,but as a fan it will be interesting,as far as payroll i admit its very extreme and lower payroll teams have prospered and actually won which has proven some valid points here,but as far as the luxury tax the yankees pay. everyteam makes out and chooses not to spend what yankees dole out each yr.
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Yanks are gonna be between 20-22 millon LESS payroll from last year.
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Yanks are gonna be between 20-22 millon LESS payroll from last year.
Yup.
Burnett's a risk, but, just for fun, check out these numbers.....
Beckett has started 119 games over the last 4 seasons.
Burnett has started 112 games over the last 4 seasons.
Beckett's ERA over the last four seasons is 3.95
Burnett's ERA over the last four seasons is 3.80
Keep in mind, Beckett also did not have to face the Sox, one of the best offenses in the league. Conversely, Burnett did not have to face the Blue Jays, who had a very week offense. Beckett does pitch in more of a hitter's park, though.
Beckett is getting 10.5m in '09 and has a 12m option in '10 - if not picked up he's then of course a F/a. Burnett is getting 12M in '09 and '10.
I'm not suggesting Burnett is better or equal to Beckett, because he's not. It's just the perception that the risk that Burnett is to the Yankees is not as extreme as it's made it out to be.