Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Stacker21 on December 23, 2008, 09:21:32 PM
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no long story, whats the real answer. How much test prop is the best per week.
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lol. there is no quick answer.
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ok...... lets say Im getting back on an a cycle from years ago. previously I did roughly 1 to 1.5 CC per week is that ok to redo alone, or should something be added
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You could try 50-100mg EOD.
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You could try 50-100mg EOD.
Is 100mg ED considered a lot?
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Is 100mg ED considered a lot?
no
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Is 100mg ED considered a lot?
100mg ed = 700mg /week
moderate..although 700 per week of prop will hyit you harder than 700 per week of a longer heavier ester...since shorter esters actually contain a slight higher Mg per ml of hormone, since the ester takes up less space in the ml.
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Depends on what kind of prop your using, pharm grade or most likely UGL. For an fairly advanced 225lb+ user with above average genetics, I would recommend 200mg EOD or 100mg/day if using UGL. If using pharm grade, you can do 150mg EOD, even 100MG EOD will work if money is tight.
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Depends on what kind of prop your using, pharm grade or most likely UGL. For an fairly advanced 225lb+ user with above average genetics, I would recommend 200mg EOD or 100mg/day if using UGL. If using pharm grade, you can do 150mg EOD, even 100MG EOD will work if money is tight.
This is not accurate info bro, as some UG's can be dosed correct, under, or even over which is also common. The best answer is to trust your source, and know what your getting.
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This is not accurate info bro, as some UG's can be dosed correct, under, or even over which is also common. The best answer is to trust your source, and know what your getting.
It's always HG.
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Well there are some good UG's out there.
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Well there are some good UG's out there.
This is a true statement. Just cause Ug has a bad rep on this board does not mean they are all bad.
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Is 100mg ED considered a lot?
No but I think you'd tired of sticking yourself everyday with Test Prop.
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No but I think you'd tired of sticking yourself everyday with Test Prop.
Yes, I do. Add in 100mg of Tren Ace ED and 50 mg of Stanozolol ED and it gets real old.
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Yes, I do. Add in 100mg of Tren Ace ED and 50 mg of Stanozolol ED and it gets real old.
You're taking 100mg of Tren A ED? That's a little extreme.
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that is a lot, but some guys like tren a lot! ;D
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No but I think you'd tired of sticking yourself everyday with Test Prop.
agreed! I did for the start of my cycle about 2 months ago for like 30 days it sucked ass.
jt
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that is a lot, but some guys like tren a lot! ;D
i used it with tren before. the result was very good! very hard!!!
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no long story, whats the real answer. How much test prop is the best per week.
True answer here says, depends on your goals.
Jacked up gym rat would be about 100mg ED
Goals of being bigger, would be more like 150mg ED
150mg shot Mon, Wed and Friday would be pretty good too for a more casual user who does not want to deal with ED injection frequency.
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It's not that bad...more of a hassle than anything. I've got about 18 different injection sites for oil based gear that I rotate. So, if injecting on a daily basis, I really only hit the same site about every three weeks.
If I really need to I can easily come up with more sites to hit. Quads alone can provide multiple sites if it's really necessary.
And, water based gear can go a million places. I don't even count that.
How many of you guys hit inner calves with oil to get that 'Synthol' effect?
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It's not that bad...more of a hassle than anything. I've got about 18 different injection sites for oil based gear that I rotate. So, if injecting on a daily basis, I really only hit the same site about every three weeks.
If I really need to I can easily come up with more sites to hit. Quads alone can provide multiple sites if it's really necessary.
And, water based gear can go a million places. I don't even count that.
How many of you guys hit inner calves with oil to get that 'Synthol' effect?
No calf shots for this kid! I am a wuss :-\
I know it has been discussed before but I believe you get no such effect from a "site injection" to make a muscle more swole, unless it is that motor oil Synthol. Maybe some temporary inflamation but that should quickly diminish.
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synthol is only oil, and the aas you inject is , most of the time, about 80% oil (give or take).
Different oils.
Synthol is inteded for the enlargement of a specific bodypart for a temp amount of time. AAS is not.
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I inject 1cc of L-Arginine and 1cc of L-Carnitine preworkout (with Humalog). Each 1cc injection goes into my inner calf and even that makes a visible positive difference if placed properly. The inflamation does not last long since it's water based - less than a day.
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I inject 1cc of L-Arginine and 1cc of L-Carnitine preworkout (with Humalog). Each 1cc injection goes into my inner calf and even that makes a visible positive difference if placed properly. The inflamation does not last long since it's water based - less than a day.
Impressive! 8)
Exactly what I was trying to state, temp inflamation.....synthol will get you to the Greg Valentino look in no time. That is what everyone should strive to look like! yeah right...
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Valentino has things other than oil in his arms I'm sure. And it's definitely not just steroid oils like he claims, unless he shot 50 grams of steroids a day.
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100mg ed = 700mg /week
moderate..although 700 per week of prop will hyit you harder than 700 per week of a longer heavier ester...since shorter esters actually contain a slight higher Mg per ml of hormone, since the ester takes up less space in the ml.
::)
Test prop will provide a more stable concentration in the blood......longer acting esters pack more of a punch over time. This is the reason why you see more bloat etc. with longer esters. Concentrations build up over time hence the purpose of half lifes. Long acting esters were never designed to be taken every week as with bodybuilders. They were designed to be taken every couple weeks to once a month.
If you are taking 500mgs a week and let's say the half life is a week. During anyone week you might have upwards of 500mgs floating around in your system. Where as with prop it's much less since it leaves the body much faster.
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if you are taking 500mg of susp or prop or cyp or whatever, per week, once you have gotten deep into the cycle( to allow for levels to platue with longer esters), the total horone in the system will be the same with any ester. BUT the shorter esters will be alittle bit more hormone, just because the shorter ester takes up less space in the oil, and more hormone. its a small amount, but it is a difference nonetheless.
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If you are taking 500mgs a week and let's say the half life is a week. During anyone week you might have upwards of 500mgs floating around in your system. Where as with prop it's much less since it leaves the body much faster.
no,
if you are taking 500mg of susp or prop or cyp or whatever, per week, once you have gotten deep into the cycle( to allow for levels to platue with longer esters), the total horone in the system will be the same with any ester. BUT the shorter esters will be alittle bit more hormone, just because the shorter ester takes up less space in the oil, and more hormone. its a small amount, but it is a difference nonetheless.
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no,
if you are taking 500mg of susp or prop or cyp or whatever, per week, once you have gotten deep into the cycle( to allow for levels to platue with longer esters), the total horone in the system will be the same with any ester. BUT the shorter esters will be alittle bit more hormone, just because the shorter ester takes up less space in the oil, and more hormone. its a small amount, but it is a difference nonetheless.
::)
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Alright…let me tell you about a study now. Scientists (real ones, with lab coats and everything) examined 3 different testosterone preperations with different ester lengths. What they found was that the shortest ester provided the highest peak levels of testosterone, followed by the medium length ester, and the lowest peak level was found with the longest ester. Even a two- to threefold higher dose of the shortest acting ester studied did not fully achieve the effects of longer esters concerning gonadal and metabolic functions. (2) Did I mention that the amount of pure testosterone (minus the ester) was the same in all injections? So what does that tell us?
The ester influences far more than just the release time and active life of the parent hormone.
Estradiol levels were significantly higher with the longest ester. Yes…Using longer estered testosterone will cause a higher rise in estrogen. And, although the same total amount of testosterone was injected in all groups, the group using the longest acting version gained the most weight.
To sum everything up in a nice neat package:
• Longer esters are more anabolic than shorter ones
• Shorter esters cause less water retention
• Longer esters cause more gonadal suppression
• Shorter esters cause a higher peak plasma level
• Most of this is only applicable to steroids that are estrified, aromatizable, and able to convert to DHT
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Do you guys have that chart that shows the release times and concentrations of each different type of ester?
I really don't know too much about the scientific side of things, so tell me this...
If both a short and a long estered Test have exactly the same MG of Test per ML, and the longer estered Test is released over a longer period of time, then I can't see how the peak of the longer Test could be anywhere near that of the short ester.
So, why wouldn't more MG of Test be added to longer esters to compensate for the longer release? Isn't it misleading to say 250 mg when the peak does not actually get to that level?
Just curious. I've always wondered, but never cared THAT much because I know from EXPERIENCE exactly what happens when I inject the different types of Test into my body.
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100 EOD . (period)
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Do you guys have that chart that shows the release times and concentrations of each different type of ester?
I really don't know too much about the scientific side of things, so tell me this...
If both a short and a long estered Test have exactly the same MG of Test per ML, and the longer estered Test is released over a longer period of time, then I can't see how the peak of the longer Test could be anywhere near that of the short ester.
So, why wouldn't more MG of Test be added to longer esters to compensate for the longer release? Isn't it misleading to say 250 mg when the peak does not actually get to that level?
Just curious. I've always wondered, but never cared THAT much because I know from EXPERIENCE exactly what happens when I inject the different types of Test into my body.
The HALF LIFE is longer with a long acting test. If you are using 500mg of test E a week the half life every 7 days is 250mg give or take. The half life of 100mg of test prop every three days is only 50mg. At the end of a couple of months the Test E will have built up. You might be using 700mgs of test prop a week but at half lives are a lot shorter so the drug is in out a lot quicker. There isn't as much of an "overlap" so to speak.
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mcmannus.
abc just nicely explained to you that you are wrong and that i am right.
this is basic stuff mcmanus.
i sggest you start reading and stop talking.
now let me explain to you
first off... the ester has to do with the ester. the hormon will not be able to take action untill the ester is cleaved from it. the reason why longer heavier esters have longer active lifes is because it takes the body a longer amount of time to break down all those long esters. so, if you injrect 250mg long ester, youll get a slow trickly of active hormone over the active life (in theory, however graphs showing dispursion show that most esters peak within a coupl days then drop off then platue for the 'half life' then dissapate). with a short ester, you get a much higher peak of hormone.
if your injecting 700 mg of prop a week, youll have the same levels of hormone in the blood as someone injecting 700mg of enanthate a week. this is because while the prop doesnt last as long, the higher peak makes up the difference. its really simple if you think about it = same amount of homrone put into body = same amount of hormone levels in blood.
actually, as i stated earlier, shorter estered steroids have a lsightly higher level of active homrone per ml than longer esters, simply because the ester takes up less psace.
fdont you think, that if i was wrong, that all these people who hate me so much, would be in my face telling me so and ju mping on yoru back to applaud you? lol
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mcmannus.
abc just nicely explained to you that you are wrong and that i am right.
this is basic stuff mcmanus.
i sggest you start reading and stop talking.
now let me explain to you
first off... the ester has to do with the ester. the hormon will not be able to take action untill the ester is cleaved from it. the reason why longer heavier esters have longer active lifes is because it takes the body a longer amount of time to break down all those long esters. so, if you injrect 250mg long ester, youll get a slow trickly of active hormone over the active life (in theory, however graphs showing dispursion show that most esters peak within a coupl days then drop off then platue for the 'half life' then dissapate). with a short ester, you get a much higher peak of hormone.
if your injecting 700 mg of prop a week, youll have the same levels of hormone in the blood as someone injecting 700mg of enanthate a week. this is because while the prop doesnt last as long, the higher peak makes up the difference. its really simple if you think about it = same amount of homrone put into body = same amount of hormone levels in blood.
actually, as i stated earlier, shorter estered steroids have a lsightly higher level of active homrone per ml than longer esters, simply because the ester takes up less psace.
fdont you think, that if i was wrong, that all these people who hate me so much, would be in my face telling me so and ju mping on yoru back to applaud you? lol
Dude you are the biggest f'in moron. I don't know what it is but you're like arguing with a retard. Are you high? Are you on drugs?
Go back and read what I just posted. I don't really give a fuck who's likes you and who doesn't. This isn't a popularity contest or some test to see if I can own you or not. LMAO! It's about science and the fact that you talk out of your ass when it comes to anabolic pharmacology and nutrition.
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An interesting side note is that the smaller ester chains, weigh less. This is important because it brings another advantage of shorter chain ester drugs to the table. If the ester weighs less, the amount of testosterone per milliliter or cubic centimeter (cc, they are interchangeable) is more. For example, testosterone suspension is 100% testosterone as we have said previously. It has no ester. The short chain ester propionate, is roughly 74% testosterone. This means that if you take a typical 1cc shot of prop at 100mg/cc, this is actually 74mg of testosterone and 26 milligrams of ester weight. A larger ester such as enanthate, is roughly 55% testosterone. Twenty-eight (45%) percent of the gross weight of a given amount of testosterone enanthate is the actual enanthate ester, not the active testosterone that you are searching for. So, a typical 200mg/cc shot of enanthate only contains 110mg of active testosterone. If you have ever used a shorter acting injectable anabolic, and gotten better results than using heavier dosages of longer acting drugs, this is the reason. You may have been getting more “active” drug into your system with what appeared to be less “overall” or gross mg dosage of drug.
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Do you guys have that chart that shows the release times and concentrations of each different type of ester?
I really don't know too much about the scientific side of things, so tell me this...
If both a short and a long estered Test have exactly the same MG of Test per ML, and the longer estered Test is released over a longer period of time, then I can't see how the peak of the longer Test could be anywhere near that of the short ester.
So, why wouldn't more MG of Test be added to longer esters to compensate for the longer release? Isn't it misleading to say 250 mg when the peak does not actually get to that level?
Just curious. I've always wondered, but never cared THAT much because I know from EXPERIENCE exactly what happens when I inject the different types of Test into my body.
Dude it's OVER TIME! Do you not understand what a half life is? The half life of prop is approx 3 days. The half life of Test E is 7 DAYS! That means by day three with prop you have half of the original amount i.e. 25mg. At the end of 7 days you have approx half of the 250mg which is 125 mg. If you keep taking 100mgs of prop every day yes you might have a higher peak on a daily basis but over the long term this doesn't matter. If you are taking 500mgs of slower releasing steroid you're taking 200mg less on a weekly basis than prop but it leaves the body much slower so it's exerting its affects in the blood for a longer amount of time. Hence why you get more bloating and sides with longer esters USUALLY!
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Dude it's OVER TIME! Do you not understand what a half life is? The half life of prop is approx 3 days. The half life of Test E is 7 DAYS! That means by day three with prop you have half of the original amount i.e. 25mg. At the end of 7 days you have approx half of the 250mg which is 125 mg. If you keep taking 100mgs of prop every day yes you might have a higher peak on a daily basis but over the long term this doesn't matter. If you are taking 500mgs of slower releasing steroid you're taking 200mg less on a weekly basis than prop but it leaves the body much slower so it's exerting its affects in the blood for a longer amount of time. Hence why you get more bloating and sides with longer esters USUALLY!
you are the one who doesnt understand. the steroid isnt active untill its ester cleaved. during that 7 days, not all 250mg is active. :)
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you are the one who doesnt understand. the steroid isnt active untill its ester cleaved. during that 7 days, not all 250mg is active. :)
LOL I Just said that. Did you not read what I said. If you inject prop every three days you'll have 25mgs having been used by the body. If you inject enanthate on the same day and the half life is 7 days you'll have 125mgs having been used by the body by the 7th day. So divided by 7 days that comes out to about 17mg per day. Then you have to take half of 25mg and 17mgs and calculate it out again. Now when you are taking upwards of 100mg of prop ed and 500mgs of test e every week of course you are getting more active ingredient with prop. BUT LIKE I SAID EARLIER that doesn't equate to better overall muscle growth or results.
To sum everything up in a nice neat package:
• Longer esters are more anabolic than shorter ones
Even though you are getting more amount of testosterone per day
• Shorter esters cause less water retention
• Longer esters cause more gonadal suppression
• Shorter esters cause a higher peak plasma level
• Most of this is only applicable to steroids that are estrified, aromatizable, and able to convert to DHT[/b]
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...oh brother... just stop posting... ever post you make i have to correct yoou on something..
So what is your point? Are you arguing that short acting esters are more anabolic because there are higher peak concentrations? So you're saying that the the response in the body is proportional to the dose of testosterone thus you see more and better gains using prop vs. test e?
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http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/anabolic-steroid-esters.htm
Read this article and quit talking out of your ass and you might learn something. Either that or you are just terrible at explaining yourself. Is English your primary language? I hope not!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep owning yourself in every pharmacological and nutritional thread you post in. It's funny and makes my day.
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read your first reply to me.
dude...
just stop posting and dont ask me any questions untill you come here with an apology :-* hahah
Dude the context of that question was if you were taking the SAME AMOUNT OF TEST PROP AND TEST E a week. I.e. 500mgs of test prop a week vs. 500mgs of test E a week. For any given day you'll have more testosterone floating around in your body with the test E. You'll have bigger spikes for shorter amounts of time with test prop. But that doesn't lead to better gains. You're flat out wrong. Keep owning yourself. It's hilarious.
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Look, heres the basic answer. A short ester like prop is lighter, therefore more of what you are injecting is testosterone and not ester. So you will technically be injecting more actual testosterone in 100mg of prop vs 100mg of ent. That being said, the blood levels will eventually get much higher overall despite this with the enanthate generally simple due to the fact that the long esters will keep releasing small amounts and over a period of weeks with long esters, the blood levels will build up to an overall higher level. That is why you generally get more bloat on long esters.
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no, thats untrue, you dont get more overall hormone with longer esters.
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Look, heres the basic answer. A short ester like prop is lighter, therefore more of what you are injecting is testosterone and not ester. So you will technically be injecting more actual testosterone in 100mg of prop vs 100mg of ent. That being said, the blood levels will eventually get much higher overall despite this with the enanthate generally simple due to the fact that the long esters will keep releasing small amounts and over a period of weeks with long esters, the blood levels will build up to an overall higher level. That is why you generally get more bloat on long esters.
Read the article I posted!!!!!!!!!!
Short acting esters spike higher but for shorter periods of time.
Long acting esters spike lower but for longer periods of time.
That is the point of this entire conversation. When it comes to building muscle (LIKE THE ARTICLE I POSTED WITH REFERENCES INDICATES) long acting esters spiking for lower but longer periods of time are actually more anabolic.
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no, thats untrue, you dont get more overall hormone with longer esters.
Dude I'm saying if you inject 100mg of prop ONE DAY on a monday and you inject 100mg of Test E one day on a monday. You'll have more testosterone in the body for a longer period of time. The prop will be higher for the first couple of days and then will dissipiate. You can't even really compare it in this way because no one uses 100mg of prop once a week. It wouldn't make sense. That's the whole point of esters. Now I'm starting to sound like you. LOL.
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Short acting esters spike higher but for shorter periods of time.
Long acting esters spike lower but for longer periods of time.
yes. this is common knowledge. never ever debated this.
That is the point of this entire conversation.
lol, no. no it wasnt at all.
first you acted liek i was stupid for saying that shorter esters contain more steroid because the ester weighs less.
then you changed it too that you thought loger esters have a higher level of hormone in the blood because of the extened release.
now your tryin to change it again. well, at least you finally changed it to something thats accurate, however, the fact that the topic you changed it to, is very basic, does not at all take away anything from your stupidity in the first two tpics you tried speaking on.
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Dude I'm saying if you inject 100mg of prop ONE DAY on a monday and you inject 100mg of Test E one day on a monday. You'll have more testosterone in the body for a longer period of time. The prop will be higher for the first couple of days and then will dissipiate. You can't even really compare it in this way because no one uses 100mg of prop once a week. It wouldn't make sense. That's the whole point of esters. Now I'm starting to sound like you. LOL.
it sounded like you were saying that if i injected 100 mg prop ed. and you injected 100mg enanthate ed. you would have more total hormone in your blood after a few weeks.
which isnt true.
in fact, because of the lighter ester, the prop would be slightly highger.
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Use this link, here you can put in the different products, esters and get a calculation on how much should be active in your blood after a few weeks.
http://www.come.to/roidcalc
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Guys, I'm just trying to learn. I'm not taking sides...seriously....I'm not a dick.
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Use this link, here you can put in the different products, esters and get a calculation on how much should be active in your blood after a few weeks.
http://www.come.to/roidcalc
its an incorrect calculator sorry. lkike i said, while tesosterone still has an ester, it can not take action in the body.
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its an incorrect calculator sorry. lkike i said, while tesosterone still has an ester, it can not take action in the body.
why dont you just stfu? nobody wants you here and you are trying & failing while at it, to stalk division
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its obvious that im needed here, or other wise the misinformation that ive been correcting throughout this thread would be thought of as fact
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its obvious that im needed here, or other wise the misinformation that ive been correcting throughout this thread would be thought of as fact
The longer ester will have a cumulative effect, where the shorter ones not so much. Trab has gone over this in detail many times. For the record Dizzle(TBOMBZ for the newbs) You are not needed here. Guys like TRAB are the type of members needed on this board, and little know it all 18 year old kids still living at home with mom and dad playing big boy with hormones are the type who chase the good members off. I challenge to come over to my other board and pull your antics. You would be banned in two seconds. Not one mod would put up with your BS! Dont forget youngmuscle you once registered on the other board that I moderate.
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The longer ester will have a cumulative effect, where the shorter ones not so much. Trab has gone over this in detail many times. For the record Dizzle(TBOMBZ for the newbs) You are not needed here. Guys like TRAB are the type of members needed on this board, and little know it all 18 year old kids still living at home with mom and dad playing big boy with hormones are the type who chase the good members off. I challenge to come over to my other board and pull your antics. You would be banned in two seconds. Not one mod would put up with your BS! Dont forget youngmuscle you once registered on the other board that I moderate.
well said + brutal owning.
i shall learn from you and avoid mr youngmuscle hahahaha
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The longer ester will have a cumulative effect, where the shorter ones not so much. Trab has gone over this in detail many times. For the record Dizzle(TBOMBZ for the newbs) You are not needed here. Guys like TRAB are the type of members needed on this board, and little know it all 18 year old kids still living at home with mom and dad playing big boy with hormones are the type who chase the good members off. I challenge to come over to my other board and pull your antics. You would be banned in two seconds. Not one mod would put up with your BS! Dont forget youngmuscle you once registered on the other board that I moderate.
if you are trying to say that what im saying in this thread is wrong and that mcmanus and liquic are right, if you are saying that longer esters will result in a higher total active mg in the blood than shorter esters(with the same total mg injected per week)...then i am sorry 4th you have no right to say you know anything about anything :P ;D
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The longer ester will have a cumulative effect, where the shorter ones not so much. Trab has gone over this in detail many times. For the record Dizzle(TBOMBZ for the newbs) You are not needed here. Guys like TRAB are the type of members needed on this board, and little know it all 18 year old kids still living at home with mom and dad playing big boy with hormones are the type who chase the good members off. I challenge to come over to my other board and pull your antics. You would be banned in two seconds. Not one mod would put up with your BS! Dont forget youngmuscle you once registered on the other board that I moderate.
This and what MM say is true..
With the cumulative effect and extra estrogen conversion from a longer ester it stands out like dogs balls , you just look different .about 8 weeks on longer ester it hits,you just look so full , you dont get that look on prop.well I dont.
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lol. wow.
no.
if you inject the same mg per week with two different ester, youll always have the same amount of active hormone in the blood at one time, regardless of what two esteres your comparing........but take small note that smaller esters will yeild a bit more hormone than longer esters because of molecular ester weight.
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lol. wow.
no.
if you inject the same mg per week with two different ester, youll always have the same amount of active hormone in the blood at one time, regardless of what two esteres your comparing........but take small note that smaller esters will yeild a bit more hormone than longer esters because of molecular ester weight.
Do you notice that difference in look between prop and say T E ?
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I am thouroughly confused at this point...
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Do you notice that difference in look between prop and say T E ?
this is simply becaus of the long ester. nto because more active hormone. long esters cause water retenation.
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this is simply becaus of the long ester. nto because more active hormone. long esters cause water retenation.
Yup , thats what I was agreeing with MM when he said the following and 4th when he talked about "The longer ester will have a cumulative effect"
Test prop will provide a more stable concentration in the blood......longer acting esters pack more of a punch over time. This is the reason why you see more bloat etc. with longer esters. Concentrations build up over time hence the purpose of half lifes. Long acting esters were never designed to be taken every week as with bodybuilders. They were designed to be taken every couple weeks to once a month.
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but longer esters cummulative effect does not bring the active mg in the blood from longer esters to a higher level than what youll acheive with shorter esters.
in fact it will be lower because of the molecular weight of the short ester.
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DIZZLE STFU! You are seriously an ass clown!