Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: erokyrwrld on December 24, 2008, 07:42:02 AM
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I'm starting to get worried. About a month ago, I was declined life insurance because of protein in my urine. Went to the doc and ran a 24 hour test. This was after I reduced my protein intake greatly for 1-1.5 weeks and stopped any strenuous exercise for 4 days prior. The test still showed high levels of protein. Now he wants me to see a kidney doctor.
My last blood test (at the same time as the urine test) showed my creatinine and BUN in normal range.
Now I've never done diuretics, never really used anti-inflammatories, no rec drugs. Pretty much have always stuck to AAS and fat burners.
What are the chances the AAS have affected my kidneys.
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Could be any number of things. See the specialist & go from there.
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I'm starting to get worried. About a month ago, I was declined life insurance because of protein in my urine. Went to the doc and ran a 24 hour test. This was after I reduced my protein intake greatly for 1-1.5 weeks and stopped any strenuous exercise for 4 days prior. The test still showed high levels of protein. Now he wants me to see a kidney doctor.
My last blood test (at the same time as the urine test) showed my creatinine and BUN in normal range.
Now I've never done diuretics, never really used anti-inflammatories, no rec drugs. Pretty much have always stuck to AAS and fat burners.
What are the chances the AAS have affected my kidneys.
do you drink a gallon+ of water a day?
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Yes, at least a gallon of various fluids, mostly water. Some diet soda.
Was diagnosed with high bp a couple years ago. It went unchecked for awhile which may have caused some damage. Its below normal now and has been for awhile.
I do consume a lot of protein daily, 300-350g/ed. A large portion of this comes from whey isolate shakes. Maybe I'm just overloading my system.
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Cut out the soda & see what happens.
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Yes, at least a gallon of various fluids, mostly water. Some diet soda.
Was diagnosed with high bp a couple years ago. It went unchecked for awhile which may have caused some damage. Its below normal now and has been for awhile.
I do consume a lot of protein daily, 300-350g/ed. A large portion of this comes from whey isolate shakes. Maybe I'm just overloading my system.
You shouldnt' be loosing protein through your urine even if you "overload" your system. You need to see the specialist. Hypertension is a very common predisposing factor for kidney disease in primates. The high blood pressure damages the glomerulus, allowing protein to "leak" out into what is being filtered by the kidney. This is one of the reasons that people who are predisposed to kidney disease (like Type I diabetics) are now being precribed antihypertension drugs like enalapril even before they develop hypertension.
See the specialist.
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hmm.. was it actuazlly amino acids, or was it something called something ;ike "protein"... i had blood work done a few years ago and it showed up that my "*******" levels were dagerously high. it sounded like protein, and the doctor asked me about my diet and i said i eat alot of protein, then he said "oh, then those levels are normal"
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I think i have calming news for you :)
I've been through this all. As i'm working as a pilot, we have to see a doctor once a year to renew our medical license (gives us the permission to fly again).
So 2005 they found protein in my urine sample, and the aviation authorities told me i had to see a kidney specialist. Well, they went as far as taking a sample piece of my kidney, and finally came to conclusion that i have this certain kidney disease, which is very common amongst men of my age (24 at that time). The disease itself doesn't affect my everyday life in any way. Now you shouldn't be worried about the AAS causing you this, i haven't took anything in my whole life and still got this disease, and as i said, it's very common amongst men. One of my classmates from the aviation school also has this, and he hasn't took anything either. Better yet, now almost 4 years later the amount of protein in my urine sample has decreased to almost non-existent :)
Oh yeah, the kidney specialists very actually laughing when they heard how thoroughly the aviation authorities wanted to investigate my kidneys, as they felt that the reason is really obvious and it has absolutely zero affect in my working capabilities...
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You shouldnt' be loosing protein through your urine even if you "overload" your system. You need to see the specialist. Hypertension is a very common predisposing factor for kidney disease in primates. The high blood pressure damages the glomerulus, allowing protein to "leak" out into what is being filtered by the kidney. This is one of the reasons that people who are predisposed to kidney disease (like Type I diabetics) are now being precribed antihypertension drugs like enalapril even before they develop hypertension.
See the specialist.
The above is right on. The nexus is high blood pressure.
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I have had protein in my urine many times in my life. I have also been tested and looked over for every possible problem. The Military Docs, and my civilian Docs have both told me the same thing. "It is attributed to exercise." In my case. The first time it happened I had taken a jump PFT the day before, and any other times I had been training really hard, with lots of cardio. I have never had high blood pressure, and the last time I had a physical, everything was good. I asked my Doc why this was and he told me some people naturally have protein in the urine, all the time.
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my urine is foamy after i work out.
it is common that strenuous exercise causes a transient proteinuria.
however, i wonder if one were to "strenuously exercise" everyday, would this continuous "transient" proteinuria eventually cause damage?
after reading anabolex website seems like kidney diseases are very common among those who work out... i bet no studies have been down on this though. interesting.
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I'm starting to get worried. About a month ago, I was declined life insurance because of protein in my urine. Went to the doc and ran a 24 hour test. This was after I reduced my protein intake greatly for 1-1.5 weeks and stopped any strenuous exercise for 4 days prior. The test still showed high levels of protein. Now he wants me to see a kidney doctor.
My last blood test (at the same time as the urine test) showed my creatinine and BUN in normal range.
Now I've never done diuretics, never really used anti-inflammatories, no rec drugs. Pretty much have always stuck to AAS and fat burners.
What are the chances the AAS have affected my kidneys.
I don't know obviously if it was AAS, but if you have excess levels of protein in the urine, that is a horrible sign for your kidneys.
You need to find out exactly what the issue is NOW.
DIV
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I don't know obviously if it was AAS, but if you have excess levels of protein in the urine, that is a horrible sign for your kidneys.
You need to find out exactly what the issue is NOW.
DIV
He needs to find what type of protein it is-- microalbumin (will leak if there is a kidney problem and is detected in very, very small amounts) is different than myoglobin (may appear after extreme exercise but isn't consistant and may not be considered abnormal if other renal function parameters are withinnormal limits). The sensitivity of the test can be somewhat of an issue because some are very nonspecific. Then he needs to find out what is causing the problem.
Again, he needs to see the specialist.
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He needs to find what type of protein it is-- microalbumin (will leak if there is a kidney problem and is detected in very, very small amounts) is different than myoglobin (may appear after extreme exercise but isn't consistant and may not be considered abnormal if other renal function parameters are withinnormal limits). The sensitivity of the test can be somewhat of an issue because some are very nonspecific. Then he needs to find out what is causing the problem.
Again, he needs to see the specialist.
High protein turnover is evident in bodybuilders in general due to the excessive tearing down and building up of tissue....
I was getting those readings even while I was still in the military.
The doctors said it was normal, esp because I was a lifter.
DIV
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As an update, went to the nephrologist and all lab tests came back normal - kidney function looks normal. Protein in urine was way down (4.1g in Dec. down to 1.4g this week). He thinks it may be the excess protein in my diet so he wants me to cut out the shakes and other supps for a week and retest.
In December, I was on a fairly heavy cycle of test and dbol. Now, I'm a month into PCT (basically clean). I can't fathom this not being related.
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As an update, went to the nephrologist and all lab tests came back normal - kidney function looks normal. Protein in urine was way down (4.1g in Dec. down to 1.4g this week). He thinks it may be the excess protein in my diet so he wants me to cut out the shakes and other supps for a week and retest.
In December, I was on a fairly heavy cycle of test and dbol. Now, I'm a month into PCT (basically clean). I can't fathom this not being related.
Don't stop your protein intake because of your doctor's concerns.
If anything you need to up that protein once in to PCT.
Your doctor obviously isn't familiar with AAS and cycling.
DIV
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you could always try drinking some cranberry juice on a daily basis...its full of vitamin c and promotes healthy kidney function
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I'm starting to get worried. About a month ago, I was declined life insurance because of protein in my urine. Went to the doc and ran a 24 hour test. This was after I reduced my protein intake greatly for 1-1.5 weeks and stopped any strenuous exercise for 4 days prior. The test still showed high levels of protein. Now he wants me to see a kidney doctor.
My last blood test (at the same time as the urine test) showed my creatinine and BUN in normal range.
Now I've never done diuretics, never really used anti-inflammatories, no rec drugs. Pretty much have always stuck to AAS and fat burners.
What are the chances the AAS have affected my kidneys.
i would say slim, do you have any family history of kidney problems?
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Don't stop your protein intake because of your doctor's concerns.
If anything you need to up that protein once in to PCT.
Your doctor obviously isn't familiar with AAS and cycling.
DIV
Tru getbigger response. How dare the doctor screw with my pct recovery just so he can figure out if I have kidney damage or not.
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Tru getbigger response. How dare the doctor screw with my pct recovery just so he can figure out if I have kidney damage or not.
The protein intake has nothing to do with PCT.
I just don't think protein turnover is the best indicator of kidney damage.
I have had high levels of that on all my blood panels since the military, it's common in anyone who is active......
Athletes especially.
DIV
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I would follow the doctor's advice. Eat a normal to low amount of protein and save the kidneys. who cares if you loose a few pounds. Lou Ferrigno and others claimed all they needed was 150 grams a day, and Lou was pretty damn big...
I would like to see any studies (apart from the supplement industry) that shows comsumming a buckload of protein helps build muscle... if anything, it may add a pound or two. anyone have a link to any studies?
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I would follow the doctor's advice. Eat a normal to low amount of protein and save the kidneys. who cares if you loose a few pounds. Lou Ferrigno and others claimed all they needed was 150 grams a day, and Lou was pretty damn big...
I would like to see any studies (apart from the supplement industry) that shows comsumming a buckload of protein helps build muscle... if anything, it may add a pound or two. anyone have a link to any studies?
Genetic predisposition will determine the protein requirements for different people.
Some guys like Nasser actually stayed huge at modest protein amounts compared to smaller guys who needed massive amounts of protein to maintain.
It's genetics.
DIV
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I do consume a lot of protein daily, 300-350g/ed.
how big are you? Weight.....
My brother is on dialysis and has been for over a yr waiting on a transplant..Never done AAS, never took protein shakes or ate high volumes of meat or anything. He noticed he wasn't peeing as much as he was, and then it got clear and clearer...Was told it hereditary
Another friend is pushing the envelope with having to be on dialysis due to years abuse of dbol and fat burners...He's 5'8 and 265lbs. He was eating a minimum of 400G of protein ED...He has been on med's for over a year now trying to heal what has been torn and hoping and praying he doesn't end up like my brother and others
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how big are you? Weight.....
My brother is on dialysis and has been for over a yr waiting on a transplant..Never done AAS, never took protein shakes or ate high volumes of meat or anything. He noticed he wasn't peeing as much as he was, and then it got clear and clearer...Was told it hereditary
Another friend is pushing the envelope with having to be on dialysis due to years abuse of dbol and fat burners...He's 5'8 and 265lbs. He was eating a minimum of 400G of protein ED...He has been on med's for over a year now trying to heal what has been torn and hoping and praying he doesn't end up like my brother and others
sorry to hear that man. your friend's situation is why I only use short (12 week), low dose cycles (test 500), and not eat a buckload of dbols and protein...
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sorry to hear that man. your friend's situation is why I only use short (12 week), low dose cycles (test 500), and not eat a buckload of dbols and protein...
Thanks for the kind words bro...
Yeah, I control ALL oral gear to a bare minimum & protein intake as well...Thank god, I don't have to eat a ton or protein, my body acts very well with 60-70% my weight in protein daily
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true. I stopped by twice a day protein shake and drink one only after workouts.. less foamy uring and not a drop in one single pound. I think all the "research" out there is supp companies selling their bullshit.
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Update
So I went 7 days with reduced protein intake (~150g/day) and no exercise for 72 hours prior to the urinalysis. Still came back having 1.6g of protein. So its not diet or exercise induced proteinuria.
Next week I go for a kidney biopsy. The doctor isn't saying this is necessary, but its a good idea if I want a solid answer.
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Update
So I went 7 days with reduced protein intake (~150g/day) and no exercise for 72 hours prior to the urinalysis. Still came back having 1.6g of protein. So its not diet or exercise induced proteinuria.
Next week I go for a kidney biopsy. The doctor isn't saying this is necessary, but its a good idea if I want a solid answer.
I'll tell you whats wrong with that statement. Just because you are still peeing protein and not working out, does not mean that working out and eating too much protein did not cause this. That may have triggered the damage, and your kidneys are still peeing it out now cause they are slightly damaged.
what is the normal range of how much protein the average person pees?
also, do you have any signs? weekness? legs getting swollen? stomach getting full of water (ascites)?
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That's the thing, I have no symptoms of kidney damage. But the average person with normal function kidney has 0 protein in the urine. A perfectly functioning kidney allows none out. So, my guess is I have some mild damage from a few year of un-medicated high blood pressure. I'll let you know in a week.
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Just because you are still peeing protein and not working out, does not mean that working out and eating too much protein did not cause this. That may have triggered the damage, and your kidneys are still peeing it out now cause they are slightly damaged.
no. wrong. protein intake doesnt lead to kidney damage. BUT damaged kidneys cant handle large amounts of protein. this is common knowledge and established fact.
ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...but when somebody has poor cholestrol already then they cant handle large amounts of dietary cholestrol.
oh and whey protein shakes do help growth. established fac. whey proteins amino acid profile and bioavailability is far superior to other proteins, and its digestion rate makes it great for taking advantage of the growth oppurtunities during and ater weight training. the fact that you havent lost weight doesnt negate this... nobody says youll lose weight if you dont take whey. whey isnt hormones. BUT, you just dont gain weight as fast without it.
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Don't stop your protein intake because of your doctor's concerns.
If anything you need to up that protein once in to PCT.
Your doctor obviously isn't familiar with AAS and cycling.
DIV
In one post you telling him to go to the doctor "NOW" and then in this post you're saying he shouldn't listen to his doctor!!!!!!!!!! LMAO! ::)
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That's the thing, I have no symptoms of kidney damage. But the average person with normal function kidney has 0 protein in the urine. A perfectly functioning kidney allows none out. So, my guess is I have some mild damage from a few year of un-medicated high blood pressure. I'll let you know in a week.
A few years of high blood pressure? ::) How high? Being a normal healthy male with high blood pressure is one thing........being a resistance training steroid using bodybuilder with high blood pressure is a prereq for kidney damage. It amazes me how many so called "bodybuilders" are so irresponsible when it comes to their health. Afterall isn't bodybuilding about health and vitality?
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I would guess I had elevated blood pressure for 2-3 years before being diagnosed and put on bp meds. When it was finally checked and diagnosed, it was around 170/110, so it was quite high. It was probably only that high for a brief period of time. At or around this time, I was using AAS, but I firmly believe the culprit was Stimulant X which I had been using regularly for several months.
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no. wrong. protein intake doesnt lead to kidney damage. BUT damaged kidneys cant handle large amounts of protein. this is common knowledge and established fact.
ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...but when somebody has poor cholestrol already then they cant handle large amounts of dietary cholestrol.
wow, your ignorance is profound. you get all your info from google.com ... this is controversial even among nephrologist that high protein intake MAY cause long term damage. the only evidence out there right now is from short term studies (like 20 weeks or so), so there is no evidence yet, but many speculate that long term, high protein intake MAY not be the best for the kidneys.
Now, throw in stenous excercise. this is a KNOWN cause for proteinuria. Strenous excersice causes muscle damage which releases myglobin, creatine, protein, etc.. and these substanses (especially, the myoglobin) CAN and do harm the kidney. so, i believe high, long term protein intake, and strenous exercise over many years may eventually damage the kidney...
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no. wrong. protein intake doesnt lead to kidney damage. BUT damaged kidneys cant handle large amounts of protein. this is common knowledge and established fact.
ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...but when somebody has poor cholestrol already then they cant handle large amounts of dietary cholestrol.
oh and whey protein shakes do help growth. established fac. whey proteins amino acid profile and bioavailability is far superior to other proteins, and its digestion rate makes it great for taking advantage of the growth oppurtunities during and ater weight training. the fact that you havent lost weight doesnt negate this... nobody says youll lose weight if you dont take whey. whey isnt hormones. BUT, you just dont gain weight as fast without it.
ok, sorry about owning you twice in one thread, but you are not very intelligent at all. i like how you say "this is common knowledge" when its controversial EVEN among nephrologists! dumbass.
then, you make yourself look like a retard by saying that dietary cholesterol does NOT influence blood levels. dead wrong again, son.
read this from the cleveland clinic regarding cholesterol:
About 85 percent of your blood cholesterol level is endogenous, which means it is produced by your body. The other 15 percent or so comes from an external source -- your diet. Your dietary cholesterol originates from meat, poultry, fish, seafood and dairy products. It's possible for some people to eat foods high in cholesterol and still have low blood cholesterol levels. Likewise, it's possible to eat foods low in cholesterol and have a high blood cholesterol level.
So, why is there so much talk about cholesterol in our diet? It's because the level of cholesterol already present in your blood can be increased by high consumption of cholesterol and saturated fat in your diet.
my point, is just don;t be so opinionated, when you don;t know shit.
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two horrible meldown posts that do not in anyway contradict me with any kind of facts.
nice work worm
dietary intake of cholestrol does not promote negative cholestrol levels in the body - ( in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body.... since homronal balance is necessary for good choelstrol levels and dietary cholestrol are used in the synthesis of all hormones ;) )
dietary protein intake does not cause unhealthy kidneys
:)
and please explain t me what is the difference between learning information through a compuetr than learning information through a textbook?
go to school and pay a professor to tell you to read a text book which will simplify studies so you understand them...OR... read the studies first hand for free. same education exactly, my friend.
you should watch goodwillhunting. didnt anybody ever tell you i look like matt damon? how do you like dem apples.
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two horrible meldown posts that do not in anyway contradict me with any kind of facts.
nice work worm
dietary intake of cholestrol does not promote negative cholestrol levels in the body - ( in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body.... since homronal balance is necessary for good choelstrol levels and dietary cholestrol are used in the synthesis of all hormones ;) )
dietary protein intake does not cause unhealthy kidneys
:)
and please explain t me what is the difference between learning information through a compuetr than learning information through a textbook?
go to school and pay a professor to tell you to read a text book which will simplify studies so you understand them...OR... read the studies first hand for free. same education exactly, my friend.
you should watch goodwillhunting. didnt anybody ever tell you i look like matt damon? how do you like dem apples.
oh man. are you serious? i'll tell you two main differences between learning from "a computer" verse learing through both textbooks and real life clinical experience:
1. Can you get a real legit degree through the internet and make hundreds of thousands of dollars? No.
2. You are wrong, and you are so ignorant, you have no idea as to HOW and WHY you are wrong, which is very scary. There isn't even a thing called "negative cholesterol."
so I have 2 questions for you, and you can look this up on doctor internet.
1. show the proof that long term high protein intake combined with long term strenous exercise does NOT harm the kidneys in anyway.
(good luck).
2. Dietary protein DOES affect blood levels. How can you agrue against these facts as posted on the cleveland clinic? You first say, dietary intake does not affect cholesterol, then I post info from the Cleveland Clinic which says it does. SO YOU ARE WRONG, be a man and admit it.
you are very pathetic, and I feel embarrassed for you. WHo should people believe, some high school kid who can look things up on google, or institutions like the Cleveland Clinic who makes statements based on facts? stick to watching movies son.
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two horrible meldown posts that do not in anyway contradict me with any kind of facts.
nice work worm
dietary intake of cholestrol does not promote negative cholestrol levels in the body - ( in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body.... since homronal balance is necessary for good choelstrol levels and dietary cholestrol are used in the synthesis of all hormones ;) )
Explain how you are NOT wrong on this? this is taken from the American Heart Association homepage:
Saturated fatty acids are the main culprit in raising blood cholesterol, which increases your risk of heart disease. Trans fats also raise blood LDL cholesterol.
so please tell me (or "teach me") again, how diet does not affect blood cholesterol again? you seemed soo sure of this...
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Explain how you are NOT wrong on this? this is taken from the American Heart Association homepage:
Saturated fatty acids are the main culprit in raising blood cholesterol, which increases your risk of heart disease. Trans fats also raise blood LDL cholesterol.
so please tell me (or "teach me") again, how diet does not affect blood cholesterol again? you seemed soo sure of this...
that says saturated fats, not dietary choelstrol.
do you think they are the same thing?
on a side note, processed carbs and sugars are just as bad if not worse for cholestrol levels than saturated fats.
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i can lead you to water water but i cant make you dirnk it.
and im done with these two points, as there can be no success in trying to make a preist give up his belief in god through argumentation.
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that says saturated fats, not dietary choelstrol.
do you think they are the same thing?
on a side note, processed carbs and sugars are just as bad if not worse for cholestrol levels than saturated fats.
ok, taken from the site as well:
Diets that are high in cholesterol raise the levels of LDL cholesterol in the blood
need more info? just admit you are wrong and save some face man.
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this is getting too much fun.
ive told you this before in regards to cholestrol intake and cholestrol numbers. dietary intake doesnt effect cholestrol levels...
... in fact dietary cholestrol may even help t promote good cholestrol levels in the body....
you can;t even keep your own delusional facts straight. rough night for tbomz...
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ok, taken from the site as well:
Diets that are high in cholesterol raise the levels of LDL cholesterol in the blood
need more info? just admit you are wrong and save some face man.
Dietary Cholesterol from Eggs Increases Plasma HDL Cholesterol in Overweight Men Consuming a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet1,2
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/138/2/272
Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasma low density lipoprotein
http://www.springerlink.com/content/c6287375m6767g80/
Qureshi, A et al. 2007. Regular egg consumption does not increase the risk of stroke or cardiovascular diseases. Medical Science Monitor. 13(1): CR1-8
http://www.medscimonit.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=470141
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this is getting too much fun.
you can;t even keep your own delusional facts straight. rough night for tbomz...
dietary cholestrol migth help promote good cholestrol because cholestrol is a ne3cessary and healthy thing to consume !!!
some facts on dietary cholestrol =
Fact: cholesterol is a critically important molecule, required for normal bodily functions. It helps maintain the integrity of every cell membrane in the human body. Cholesterol is abundant in brain and nervous system tissue. Even though the brain only represents a small portion of a person’s weight (around 2 percent), it contains around 25 percent of a body’s total cholesterol. Myelin, the fatty acid surrounding nerve fibers, is dependent on cholesterol to conduct electrical impulses that control movement, sensation, thinking, learning and memory. Cholesterol has been found to be the most important factor in the formation of synapses, connections between neurons that form the basis of learning and memory. Bile acid, required for the digestion of fats, is synthesized from cholesterol in the liver. Vitamin D, necessary for strong bones and teeth, is also synthesized from cholesterol and abundant in cholesterol-rich foods (cod liver oil, herring, oysters, catfish, sardines, mackerel, salmon, caviar and shrimp). Cholesterol is a precursor to all steroid hormones and is needed to synthesize testosterone, for improved libido, confidence and muscle mass.
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Dietary Cholesterol from Eggs Increases Plasma HDL Cholesterol in Overweight Men Consuming a Carbohydrate-Restricted Diet1,2
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/138/2/272
Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasma low density lipoprotein
http://www.springerlink.com/content/c6287375m6767g80/
Qureshi, A et al. 2007. Regular egg consumption does not increase the risk of stroke or cardiovascular diseases. Medical Science Monitor. 13(1): CR1-8
http://www.medscimonit.com/fulltxt.php?ICID=470141
bro, you are either retarded or are 14 years old. your best evidence comes from an article entitled " Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein".... boy this is fun. ready to get owned again?....
You forgot the last part, and the most important part of that article... "Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein when accompanied by an energy-restricted diet and weight loss"
damn!
even from the ABSTRACT from the same article YOU quoted:
Diets enriched with dietary cholesterol, frequently from eggs, have been shown to produce a small but variable increase in plasma low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol.
See, thats the difference between learing from institutions and learning from the internet. At least I know how to read a journal article.... back to the movies son.
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you lost all face, so now, just be a man, and admit your wrong.
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bro, you are either retarded or are 14 years old. your best evidence comes from an article entitled " Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein".... boy this is fun. ready to get owned again?....
You forgot the last part, and the most important part of that article... "Increased dietary cholesterol does not increase plasms low density lipoprotein when accompanied by an energy-restricted diet and weight loss"
damn!
even from the ABSTRACT from the same article YOU quoted:
Diets enriched with dietary cholesterol, frequently from eggs, have been shown to produce a small but variable increase in plasma low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol.
See, thats the difference between learing from institutions and learning from the internet. At least I know how to read a journal article.... back to the movies son.
however eggs also tend to promote a rise in hdl, which negates the rise in ldl.
womr do you have some kind of "stock" in promoting the idea that dietary cholestrol is unhealthy? it seems so
heres the finding of a study =
For most people, the effect of dietary cholesterol is minimal and the reduction of total and saturated fat is more important. However, for those with raised blood cholesterol levels (above 5.2 mmol/L), reducing the amount of high-cholesterol foods will help,
(exactly what i originally told you)
below explains how they came to the above conclusion
The literature was searched using MEDLINE (1974 to 1999) and Biological Abstracts (1989 to 1999). Reference lists were then reviewed. Studies were included if they met the following criteria:
they were published in English;
their design was either parallel (groups of participants given different diets) or randomised crossover (all participants given different diets in random order);
the experimental diets only differed in the amount of dietary cholesterol or number of eggs;
the diets lasted for 14 days or more;
the HDL concentrations were reported.
Seventeen studies met these criteria. Participants totalled 556 (422 men and 134 women), aged between 18 and 75 years, with an average body mass index (kg/sq m) ranging from 20.8 to 28 and initial cholesterol concentration ranging from 4.06 to 5.92 mmol/L. The change in cholesterol intake ranged from 167 to 897 mg/d.
http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/hliving/eggschol.html
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from the HARVARD school of public health=
Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what's most important. And the biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/
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seriously man, you can copy and paste all night long... you are still wrong.
bottom line:
you say dietary cholesterol has no effect on blood cholesterol.
I have now showed you evidence it does, even from the American Heart Association.
Now, I know you are quite immature, but just try to be a man and admit you were wrong... why is this so hard for you?
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from the HARVARD school of public health=
Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what's most important. And the biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in your diet—not the amount of cholesterol you eat from food.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/fats-and-cholesterol/
My point exactly, you cannot learn scientific thinking over the internet, let me try to walk you through this... now try to pay attention. just because Harvard says the "biggest influence" is not from food, it does NOT in ANYWAY say that food (diet) cannot raise LDL. It is simply stating that "fats in your diet" is the biggest influence. Foods had an impact, its just NOT the BIGGEST impact. see how this works?
Now, if you read the actual article instead of just copying and pasting, you would have gone on to read "Cholesterol in food matters, too"
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In one post you telling him to go to the doctor "NOW" and then in this post you're saying he shouldn't listen to his doctor!!!!!!!!!! LMAO! ::)
Initially I thought he should, but he seems to be more intent on listening to everyone else instead of using his own intuition.
I don't go on forums to ask people what I should do about medical issues.
:P
DIV
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still feels so good to prove tbomz wrong... no hard feelings man. hope you enjoyed your "good will hunting" movie, not everything works out in real life as they do in the movies.
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still feels so good to prove tbomz wrong... no hard feelings man. hope you enjoyed your "good will hunting" movie, not everything works out in real life as they do in the movies.
who did you prove wrong??? HAHAHA.... silly
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lol, I knew you wouldn't have the balls to admit your wrong. well anyway, at least i taught you a few things....
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For anyone who was curious, a biopsy revealed that I have FSGS (focal segmental glomerular sclerosis) which is can be a progressive disease, though the doc is hopeful. It has been ruled primary or idiopathic meaning they have no idea what caused it. Its typically found mostly in blacks (I'm white), IV heroin users (I've never touched it), and/or HIV patients (My tests are clean). I'm wondering now if the ug gear I've used in the past contained toxins which caused this.
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how big are you? Weight.....
My brother is on dialysis and has been for over a yr waiting on a transplant..Never done AAS, never took protein shakes or ate high volumes of meat or anything. He noticed he wasn't peeing as much as he was, and then it got clear and clearer...Was told it hereditary
Another friend is pushing the envelope with having to be on dialysis due to years abuse of dbol and fat burners...He's 5'8 and 265lbs. He was eating a minimum of 400G of protein ED...He has been on med's for over a year now trying to heal what has been torn and hoping and praying he doesn't end up like my brother and others
Ummmmm 5'8 265lbs and eating tons of dbol = HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE! STEROIDS don't cause kidney damage. Neither does high protein intake. But weighing 265 lbs, abusing dbol, and eating 400g of protein nonstop will definitely cause high blood pressure WHICH DOES DAMAGE KIDNEYS! Sorry but your friend is an idiot.
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For anyone who was curious, a biopsy revealed that I have FSGS (focal segmental glomerular sclerosis) which is can be a progressive disease, though the doc is hopeful. It has been ruled primary or idiopathic meaning they have no idea what caused it. Its typically found mostly in blacks (I'm white), IV heroin users (I've never touched it), and/or HIV patients (My tests are clean). I'm wondering now if the ug gear I've used in the past contained toxins which caused this.
damn, that sucks man. How old are you? How is your BP? Wish you well man.
Did you have foamy urine at all? Did you feel tired a lot? Any symptoms at all???
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These are some causes of FSGS, do any of them ring a bell? Buckets of advil, obese, HTN?
Secondary FSGS:
Drugs
Intravenous heroin
Analgesics (Advil)
Viruses
Hepatitis B
HIV
Parvovirus
Hemodynamic factors - With reduced renal mass
Solitary kidney
Renal allograft
Renal dysplasia
Renal agenesis
Oligomeganephronia
Segmental hypoplasia
Vesicoureteric reflux
Hemodynamic causes - Without reduced renal mass
Massive obesity14
Sickle cell nephropathy
Congenital cyanotic heart disease
Malignancies
Lymphomas
Other malignancies
Scarring - Postinflammatory in postinfectious glomerulonephritis
Miscellaneous
Hypertensive nephrosclerosis
Alport syndrome
Sarcoidosis
Radiation nephritis