Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: JOHN MATRIX on December 30, 2008, 06:42:42 PM
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if it can be settled that in fact he was then i believe it would settle the question of who the strongest man ever is. if he was indeed natural then how could anyone dispute him being the strongest man ever
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if it can be settled that in fact he was then i believe it would settle the question of who the strongest man ever is. if he was indeed natural then how could anyone dispute him being the strongest man ever
good question ???
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Hard question to answer with certainty, Paul was in his prime in the 1950's trained with alot of crude homemade equipment etc, he certainly was unbelievably strong and @ 310-350lbs (though out his prime years) had some of the most massive quads ever.
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I think Anderson had access to some radical scientific breakthrough in muscle-building that Tesla invented but the government kept from public knowledge.
That's my opinion.
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As natural as the sun rising to the West.
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they were readily available. what reason would he have for not trying something new? your frame of reference of what is cheating and what is not didn't exist back then.
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they were readily available. what reason would he have for not trying something new? your frame of reference of what is cheating and what is not didn't exist back then.
i wasnt aware that steroids were readily available america in the 50's ???
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i wasnt aware that steroids were readily available america in the 50's ???
the first reference to anabolic steroids in a bodybuilding magazine was in Strength and Health in 1938. Injectable testosterone esters were available throughout the 40s. Dianabol was widely available at pharmacies in the US by 1958.
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steroids were available to some people around 1918... they were experimented with during ww1. All athletes were using them by the 1930s, anyone who came after that time period was definatly on steroids.
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steroids were available to some people around 1918... they were experimented with during ww1. All athletes were using them by the 1930s, anyone who came after that time period was definatly on steroids.
Er...no.A commercially viable method of synthesizing testosterone was discovered round 1935.
Ruzicka and Butenandt won the 1939 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for this breakthrough.
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the first reference to anabolic steroids in a bodybuilding magazine was in Strength and Health in 1938. Injectable testosterone esters were available throughout the 40s. Dianabol was widely available at pharmacies in the US by 1958.
good post, this has been discussed a lot here and good to finally put it to rest..Im sure a lot of those old timers were using small amounts of deca.
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the first reference to anabolic steroids in a bodybuilding magazine was in Strength and Health in 1938. Injectable testosterone esters were available throughout the 40s. Dianabol was widely available at pharmacies in the US by 1958.
Correct. Most think that due to dbol only becoming available in the mid-50's, that that was the 1st of any steroid available. Whereas test was available in the 30's.
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steroids were available to some people around 1918... they were experimented with during ww1. All athletes were using them by the 1930s, anyone who came after that time period was definatly on steroids.
You're an idiot.
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good post, this has been discussed a lot here and good to finally put it to rest..Im sure a lot of those old timers were using small amounts of deca.
Why small amounts? There were no reported dangers, sides nor was it illegal. Like anything else, the story would've been, if it works, use more.
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I believe he was natural.His whole life was dedicated to Christ.Not like some of these Phony Christians,but a guy that spent every dime he had on a boys home for wayward youth.
However,if he did use,who cares?A guy that could squat 900lbs three times a day for months to raise money for his home is still as strong or stronger then any human who has ever walked the face of the earth.By the way,he did this in dress pants.
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the first reference to anabolic steroids in a bodybuilding magazine was in Strength and Health in 1938. Injectable testosterone esters were available throughout the 40s. Dianabol was widely available at pharmacies in the US by 1958.
You always type this referenced in 1938 , Da Vinci referenced the parachute in 1483 it doesn't mean people were base jumping
Dianabol was the first commercially available anabolic use specifically for sports supplementation , until then there was no drug use in American weightlifting & bodybuilding
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good post, this has been discussed a lot here and good to finally put it to rest..Im sure a lot of those old timers were using small amounts of deca.
Nonsense , in the very late 1950s they started testing weightlifters with d-bol NOT bodybuilders , weightlifting was viewed as the manly sport and bodybuilding was seen as you guessed it a sport for fairies , Ziegler who created dianabol started giving it to weightlifters ONLY at York it wasn't until the 1960 the earliest did the drug start making it's way out to the west coast bodybuilding scene .
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Calvin Trillin wrote an article on Paul in '69 for the New Yorker titled 'World's Strongest Man.'* If I remember correctly, Mr. Anderson was quite the Christian and tried to spread the Word with his lifts as a sideshow. I think he also ran a home/orphanage for kids. Maybe Google-fu Trillin + Paul Anderson.
*Appears also in Trillin's US Journal (1971) of which I have a copy somewhere
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what does bein a christian have anything to do with it,,, some of the biggest peodofiles and generaly horrible c,u,n,t,s have been hiding behind the church.......
natural or not,,, not many human beings are able to squat 900lbs
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Dianabol was the first commercially available anabolic use specifically for sports supplementation , until then there was no drug use in American weightlifting & bodybuilding
that testosterone proprionate was mentioned by name in a bodybuilding mag in 1938 makes it pretty hard to say that there was NO drug use in weightlifting or bodybuilding for another 20 years.
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that testosterone proprionate was mentioned by name in a bodybuilding mag in 1938 makes it pretty hard to say that there was NO drug use in weightlifting or bodybuilding for another 20 years.
Sure there was because there was NO mention of it at ALL until Ziegler , none what so ever not in weight lifting and not in bodybuilding
like the da Vinci idea on the parachute it was mentioned in 1483
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Sure there was because there was NO mention of it at ALL until Ziegler , none what so ever not in weight lifting and not in bodybuilding
late 1947 or early 48, there is an articles about George Eiferman, already a national level bodybuilder based on the east coast, going out to Yarick's gym in Oakland for the summer, coming back 30-40 pounds heavier. Similar story the following year about Jack Delinger, also going out to Yaricks for the summer coming back much heavier. btw, they won the 48 and 49 Mr America.
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late 1947 or early 48, there is an articles about George Eiferman, already a national level bodybuilder based on the east coast, going out to Yarick's gym in Oakland for the summer, coming back 30-40 pounds heavier. Similar story the following year about Jack Delinger, also going out to Yaricks for the summer coming back much heavier. btw, they won the 48 and 49 Mr America.
30-40 pounds? that wouldn't take place with todays supplements nevermind dosages that low when they first started using
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30-40 pounds? that wouldn't take place with todays supplements nevermind dosages that low when they first started using
yes, an adolescent just starting to work out and eat right. but these were already national level bodybuilders.
there is no way to know who used what when, but there is certainly plenty of circumstantial evidence that means that it was possible that top bodybuilders were using in the 1940s.
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what does bein a christian have anything to do with it,,, some of the biggest peodofiles and generaly horrible c,u,n,t,s have been hiding behind the church.......
natural or not,,, not many human beings are able to squat 900lbs
There is a HUGE differance between church going Bible thumpers and a guy who has dedicated his life to helping kids.I just dont believe he would use steroids.He was a REAL Christian,not a Catholic priest Christian.
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yes, an adolescent just starting to work out and eat right. but these were already national level bodybuilders.
Again that's not realistic even today it's just nonsense 30-40 pounds , Ziegler was started guys out at York with 5mg tabs and they had little effect
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I just dont believe he would use steroids.He was a REAL Christian,not a Catholic priest Christian.
why would you assume that someone in the 50s would see dianabol tablets as any more moral or immoral than you might see ephedrine or caffeine tablets?
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yes, an adolescent just starting to work out and eat right. but these were already national level bodybuilders.
there is no way to know who used what when, but there is certainly plenty of circumstantial evidence that means that it was possible that top bodybuilders were using in the 1940s.
I disagree , there would at least be anecdotal evidence of guys who did use , are who knew guys were using , but again there are no such stories until Ziegler and the guys at York , from all the research it doesn't look like drugs made into the West coast scene until 1960 and then they say the guys really started to get bigger
I mean the Russians were using it 1954 for weight lifters and it wasn't until then Ziegler learned of it and went to work at Ciba
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Again that's not realistic even today it's just nonsense 30-40 pounds , Ziegler was started guys out at York with 5mg tabs and they had little effect
doctors and scientists tend to be cautious, gym owners not so much. and the drug was injectable testosterone esters. they wouldn't be injecting 1/10 of a cc.
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doctors and scientists tend to be cautious, gym owners not so much. and the drug was injectable testosterone esters. they wouldn't be injecting 1/10 of a cc.
Again yet NO anecdotal evidence what so ever , just a mention in Strength & Health , I think we'd hear more at least from a layman's prospective and news would travel fast especially if it worked like it did in the late 50s
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I disagree , there would at least be anecdotal evidence of guys who did use , are who knew guys were using , but again there are no such stories until Ziegler and the guys at York ,
Dan Duchaine had done a lot of digging and was convinced that Grimek was juicing prior to his first Mr A win. But where that research is today, I don't know.
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Again yet NO anecdotal evidence what so ever , just a mention in Strength & Health , I think we'd hear more at least from a layman's prospective and news would travel fast especially if it worked like it did in the late 50s
Uh, that would be 'evidence' of an anecdotal nature. ;)
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Again yet NO anecdotal evidence what so ever , just a mention in Strength & Health
not one, but three mentions in Strength and Health is exactly that, anecdotal evidence. It's not proof, but it certainly indicates that it is in the realm of possibilities.
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Dan Duchaine had done a lot of digging and was convinced that Grimek was juicing prior to his first Mr A win. But where that research is today, I don't know.
Grimek was Bob Hoffman's poster boy at York and where did Ziegler go to test out the D-bal? York
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Uh, that would be 'evidence' of an anecdotal nature. ;)
I meant than just the mention in Strength & Health ;)
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not one, but three mentions in Strength and Health is exactly that, anecdotal evidence. It's not proof, but it certainly indicates that it is in the realm of possibilities.
What's the context? does it elaborate I was always curious about that , I have old Strength & Healths I don't think from the 30s though and old Your Physique and no mentions either , well in the ones I have at least
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Grimek was Bob Hoffman's poster boy at York and where did Ziegler go to test out the D-bal? York
what's your point? Grimek worked at York in the 30s. Test esters mentioned in S&H in 38. Grimek wins Mr A in 40 and 41. By the time Ziegler goes to York in the mid to late 50s, Grimek was already editor in chief of S&H.
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What's the context? does it elaborate I was always curious about that , I have old Strength & Healths I don't think from the 30s though and old Your Physique and no mentions either , well in the ones I have at least
the 1938 reference was a letter to the editor
YP never wrote anything new in the early 40s, just lifted articles from European mags.
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what's your point? Grimek worked at York in the 30s. Test esters mentioned in S&H in 38. Grimek wins Mr A in 40 and 41. By the time Ziegler goes to York in the mid to late 50s, Grimek was already editor in chief of S&H.
My point is Grimek didn't take anything until Ziegler brought d-bols to York , if they were already using something before Ziegler brought it there he would have mentioned it , he introduced the world to d-bol at York but you're claiming Grimek was already using
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mytostatin blockers are mentioned today in MD.
They dont exist. Well commercially.
Ever think it was gimickky type bullshit.
Anyway in 1940s the world was at war, I doubt people were spending money on fucking test.
I personally think if you believe that you are a fool
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Dan Duchaine had done a lot of digging and was convinced that Grimek was juicing prior to his first Mr A win. But where that research is today, I don't know.
All this is in the new book Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors. I'll retype the info when I get a chance. There is no way Paul Anderson was using steroids. That's like saying Paery Rader was and if you think that you know nothing about the history of the game during that era. Grimek used dianabol but it was for a brief time period and he didn't like the way it made him feel. Atleast that's waht is says and much more in the book Im' reading.
According to John Fair this is what Grimek wrote:
How's the anabolic working on you? It does nothing for me. The fellows claimed it did nothing for them, yet eaach did good or better than they've done in the past in spite of LOSING. I have not discussed it with Hoffman yet as to how much he gave, and to whom he gave the tablets, to see if those who took it were the ones who did better in the past.
Muscle Smoke and Mirrors...........
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My point is Grimek didn't take anything until Ziegler brought d-bols to York , if they were already using something before Ziegler brought it there he would have mentioned it , he introduced the world to d-bol at York but you're claiming Grimek was already using
You are talking out of your ass.
Dianabol was released around 1958 and primarily marketed at the medical community for rehabilitation treatment. According to John Fair, CIBA, knowing Ziegler's affiliation with York, approached him to test the product on athletes. He responded by giving John Grimek a "half bushel basket" full of pills and the taks of finding some volunteers. As a former Olympic weightlifter and bodybuildin icon, Ziegler, Grimek stated the situation in late 1959 where he could find no immediate volunteers and that Hoffman wouldn't be on board being it was so close to the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome. Hoffman did give the go ahead for York trainer Dick Smith, to escort a young Bill March to Ziegler in 1959. March was to be trained by Ziegler using isometrics, positive thinking therapy, and an array of Hoffman's supplements. According to sports writer, Bob Dvorchak, Ziegler didn't just introduce March to training on an early power rack, he also gave hiim a "packet of experimental blue pills". Dvorchak wrote an extensive 4 part series on steroids in October 0f 2005 for the Pitssburg Post Gazette. He stated that March conceded to using the drug in late 1959, as opposed to mid 1960 as some have proposed. Whether many of the athletes were led to believe, or simply chose to look upon Dianabol as a vitamin, Ziegler still knew he was dealing with a drug. Dvorchak quoted Dick Smith in part 1 of his series on steroids. "Doc wanted to do it right. He was conducting a clinical test......" Ziegler wanted the athletes to adhere to the rules of no more than 15/mg per day. The drugs were cycled 6 weeks on, followed by 5 days off, with periodic liver testing. Ziegler may have been cautious with the health of the athletes but his manner of experimentation would be heavily criticized later.
Muscle Smoke and Mirrors by Randy Roach.
All this infor and cool historical analysis is int he book. I keep touting this book because it's an amazing read and Volume II is coming out soon. Seriously, guys it is fascinating the history behind this and many other topics.
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Was Arn Anderson natural?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2460342865_289020bcc7.jpg?v=0)
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Testosterone was available in the 1940's. There is zero proof anyone involved in the strength sports was using it for that purpose in the 40's. The earliest rumors of anyone using it was the late 50's and it was the Russian Olympic lifters. It was also rumored that they were having severe prostate enlargement shown by their problems urinating. Dianabol was the first anabolic steroid created to minimize the androgenic properties of straight testosterone. It reduced the prostate problems of long term high dose testosterone.
Guys don't listen to these fans of drugs who rationalize that anyone through time used drugs. They know in their very soul that deep down they would look like nothing without using drugs. It's all they have in life is their drug gained body. Without drugs they have nothing. These simpletons will have you believe that the risks are on par with using aspirin once a week. They will also have you believe that every elite athlete uses drugs and that's not true by a long shot. It's just justification for their own use.
Paul Anderson was incredibly strong through most of his life without drugs. Steve Reeves had an awesome build from 16 till 60. It's terrible that cancer took him away.
Using bodybuilding drugs is a risk to health. There are guys using heroin for 10 years but that doesn't mean it isn't a risk to health. Many steroid users cycle on and off for 10 to 20 years. Most quit due to financial, health or legal problems. Most realize they threw away any chance of success in life because they chased the syringe to try to impress others.
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There is a HUGE differance between church going Bible thumpers and a guy who has dedicated his life to helping kids.I just dont believe he would use steroids.He was a REAL Christian,not a Catholic priest Christian.
and why does a belief in god and having a good heart mean a person would not use steroids?
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mytostatin blockers are mentioned today in MD.
They dont exist. Well commercially.
Ever think it was gimickky type bullshit.
Anyway in 1940s the world was at war, I doubt people were spending money on fucking test.
I personally think if you believe that you are a fool
ok but i bet if dorian yates talk to you face to face and told you he never used any kind of steroidal substance during his entire bodybuilding career, you would 100% take him at his word.
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You are talking out of your ass.
Dianabol was released around 1958 and primarily marketed at the medical community for rehabilitation treatment. According to John Fair, CIBA, knowing Ziegler's affiliation with York, approached him to test the product on athletes. He responded by giving John Grimek a "half bushel basket" full of pills and the taks of finding some volunteers. As a former Olympic weightlifter and bodybuildin icon, Ziegler, Grimek stated the situation in late 1959 where he could find no immediate volunteers and that Hoffman wouldn't be on board being it was so close to the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome. Hoffman did give the go ahead for York trainer Dick Smith, to escort a young Bill March to Ziegler in 1959. March was to be trained by Ziegler using isometrics, positive thinking therapy, and an array of Hoffman's supplements. According to sports writer, Bob Dvorchak, Ziegler didn't just introduce March to training on an early power rack, he also gave hiim a "packet of experimental blue pills". Dvorchak wrote an extensive 4 part series on steroids in October 0f 2005 for the Pitssburg Post Gazette. He stated that March conceded to using the drug in late 1959, as opposed to mid 1960 as some have proposed. Whether many of the athletes were led to believe, or simply chose to look upon Dianabol as a vitamin, Ziegler still knew he was dealing with a drug. Dvorchak quoted Dick Smith in part 1 of his series on steroids. "Doc wanted to do it right. He was conducting a clinical test......" Ziegler wanted the athletes to adhere to the rules of no more than 15/mg per day. The drugs were cycled 6 weeks on, followed by 5 days off, with periodic liver testing. Ziegler may have been cautious with the health of the athletes but his manner of experimentation would be heavily criticized later.
Muscle Smoke and Mirrors by Randy Roach.
All this infor and cool historical analysis is int he book. I keep touting this book because it's an amazing read and Volume II is coming out soon. Seriously, guys it is fascinating the history behind this and many other topics.
How am I talking out my ass? I agree with everything you just typed? ??? did you even read my posts?
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ok but i bet if dorian yates talk to you face to face and told you he never used any kind of steroidal substance during his entire bodybuilding career, you would 100% take him at his word.
He's admitted several times he used and they asked him if 1993 was the first year he experimented with GH due to the huge difference in weight from 1992 to 1993 and he said NO he used it before .
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He's admitted several times he used and they asked him if 1993 was the first year he experimented with GH due to the huge difference in weight from 1992 to 1993 and he said NO he used it before .
and goudy would still believ him ;D
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Testosterone was available in the 1940's. There is zero proof anyone involved in the strength sports was using it for that purpose in the 40's. The earliest rumors of anyone using it was the late 50's and it was the Russian Olympic lifters. It was also rumored that they were having severe prostate enlargement shown by their problems urinating. Dianabol was the first anabolic steroid created to minimize the androgenic properties of straight testosterone. It reduced the prostate problems of long term high dose testosterone.
Guys don't listen to these fans of drugs who rationalize that anyone through time used drugs. They know in their very soul that deep down they would look like nothing without using drugs. It's all they have in life is their drug gained body. Without drugs they have nothing. These simpletons will have you believe that the risks are on par with using aspirin once a week. They will also have you believe that every elite athlete uses drugs and that's not true by a long shot. It's just justification for their own use.
Paul Anderson was incredibly strong through most of his life without drugs. Steve Reeves had an awesome build from 16 till 60. It's terrible that cancer took him away.
Using bodybuilding drugs is a risk to health. There are guys using heroin for 10 years but that doesn't mean it isn't a risk to health. Many steroid users cycle on and off for 10 to 20 years. Most quit due to financial, health or legal problems. Most realize they threw away any chance of success in life because they chased the syringe to try to impress others.
Great post ! and I agree with you 100%
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Was Arn Anderson natural?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2460342865_289020bcc7.jpg?v=0)
IS ANYONE GOING TO ANSWE MY QUESTION? WAS ARN ANDERSON NATURAL?
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One last point before I get off my soap box. Have you noticed that most of these steroid dealers that hang out in the gyms seem to have no job? They all have membership to a two to three gyms. Lastly they not only can get bodybuilding drugs like steroids, insulin, LH, anti estrogens, and such but they have a contact to get street drugs?
Dan Duchaine who is used as a bodybuilding drug expert is at the most being kind a moron. This subculture of a sport uses this guy as an expert in underground drug use. It's so sad.
I love the iron sports and it kills me that it has been turned into a sub culture that is laughed at by the general public. You can find billiards on ESPN but not a bodybuilding show.
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One last point before I get off my soap box. Have you noticed that most of these steroid dealers that hang out in the gyms seem to have no job? They all have membership to a two to three gyms. Lastly they not only can get bodybuilding drugs like steroids, insulin, LH, anti estrogens, and such but they have a contact to get street drugs?
Dan Duchaine who is used as a bodybuilding drug expert is at the most being kind a moron. This subculture of a sport uses this guy as an expert in underground drug use. It's so sad.
I love the iron sports and it kills me that it has been turned into a sub culture that is laughed at by the general public. You can find billiards on ESPN but not a bodybuilding show.
I used to watch the Nationals and the Olympia on ESPN back in the 80s now nothing :-\
remind me of this Reeves quote
STEVE "HERCULES" REEVES
Bodybuilding Legend Joins Muscular Development
"For over 30 years I've remained silent and just watched the transition that bodybuilding has made. And in my opinion, and in the opinions of many who have talked to me, bodybuilding, as it's practiced and promoted today, is dying--and dying fast.
Well, it's a good thing! Never in my life would I have imagined that such a terrific sport would be filled with so-called "champions" who are held up as heroes and adulated for physiques that are built with drugs. What kind of "real" bodybuilding champion is that?
Since when did a distinction need to be made between a "natural" bodybuilder and "chemical bodybuilder"? When I built my body, you were a bodybuilder--period! And you did it without drugs, by training hard, eating right and getting the right amount of rest.
It disturbs me to no end that today's muscle magazines are filled with stories on this-and-that champion's routine, when all the while the average man and woman are misled because these same magazines won't dare print the truth! And the truth is that these "champions" built their physiques after spending tens of thousands of dollars on steroids, growth hormone, insulin and whatever else happens to be the latest rage.
The public has been deceived for too long and it's time someone takes a stand. I will!
I want you to go to any newsstand during any given month and you'll find these same muscle magazines with cover blurbs and articles about the latest drugs. Open them up and you'll find page after page about drugs, how to take them and what to avoid. All this is the lie of supposedly giving their readers the information they say they want to know!
Recently, someone showed me a magazine put out by a young man in Colorado, and I was shocked. Unbelievably, bodybuilding is the only "sport" that has a magazine devoted to drugs! And this magazine promotes this character they call "the guru," who answers your most-asked drug-related questions.
After seeing photos of this fella, it makes you wonder; if drugs were so good, why didn't they work for him? Hey, and he's supposedly the "expert," whom people who want to know turn to! Wake up, friends! When and where will all this nonsense end? The other magazines won't stop it--and the bodybuilders sure as hell won't because they're stuck; either you keep taking drugs and getting bigger and more cut, or you won't win contests or get an endorsement contract.
Never in my life have I used any drug to build my body. Never! I wasn't born with the physique I built; I worked hard for it. Yet, I did it naturally. Sure, I didn't build it up to the size of today's drug-enhanced physiques, but I was after symmetry and proportion, and I achieved it in a package that allowed me to win the Mr. America and Mr. Universe titles, along with giving me a successful film career. Even today, at 71 years of age, I work on my ranch, work out and would be willing to bet that I could out-power walk many of those bloated muscle druggies 40 years my junior!
To me, a bodybuilder is someone who not only builds his body naturally, but has functional, real-world muscle that can be used at any time, and will help the person perform any activity better.
When it came to my body--the body you saw--and the condition I had, that was the body I had 24 hours a day, 365 days a year! I was not some bloated, out-of-shape, easily winded giant whose razor-sharp physique could only stay that way for a few weeks before or after a contest. (I can just hear the directive from the magazine editor to the photographers, "Hurry and snap those pictures before we lose him!")
When Steve Blechman, Publisher and Editor-In-Chief of NATURAL MD, spoke to me about his vision for taking the sport back to its natural roots, I applauded him. For others in the industry have had the opportunity and have "talked the talk," but no one has had the guts to take a stand for what's right. Blechman has. And that is why, after all these years, I've decided to help the sport I love get back to its proper place. One of the ways I intend to do that is by writing a monthly column for NATURAL MD magazine.
Something needs to be done now; we have no choice. For where there is no vision the people perish; and where there is no vision for the future of bodybuilding, bodybuilding will perish.
Many people may ask if there is another reason for me coming out of retirement to help save the sport. The answer is no, and I want to make one thing crystal clear: My passion for what I do has never been driven by money. I retired at the peak of my movie career, so that I could live life on my own terms.
All my life, I have never answered to anyone and I'm not about to do it now. The only thing I can give you in the coming months--through the pages of this magazine--is honesty and the truth about building your body without drugs.
I will teach you everything you will need to know to build the body you truly want. That is, to build it naturally and without any drugs. If you want to look like the other bodybuilders and want the latest drug information, then go to the other magazines. I'm only interested in talking about one thing: real bodybuilding. If that's what you want, then my friend, welcome home!"
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Testosterone was available in the 1940's. There is zero proof anyone involved in the strength sports was using it for that purpose in the 40's. The earliest rumors of anyone using it was the late 50's and it was the Russian Olympic lifters. It was also rumored that they were having severe prostate enlargement shown by their problems urinating. Dianabol was the first anabolic steroid created to minimize the androgenic properties of straight testosterone. It reduced the prostate problems of long term high dose testosterone.
Guys don't listen to these fans of drugs who rationalize that anyone through time used drugs. They know in their very soul that deep down they would look like nothing without using drugs. It's all they have in life is their drug gained body. Without drugs they have nothing. These simpletons will have you believe that the risks are on par with using aspirin once a week. They will also have you believe that every elite athlete uses drugs and that's not true by a long shot. It's just justification for their own use.
Paul Anderson was incredibly strong through most of his life without drugs. Steve Reeves had an awesome build from 16 till 60. It's terrible that cancer took him away.
Using bodybuilding drugs is a risk to health. There are guys using heroin for 10 years but that doesn't mean it isn't a risk to health. Many steroid users cycle on and off for 10 to 20 years. Most quit due to financial, health or legal problems. Most realize they threw away any chance of success in life because they chased the syringe to try to impress others.
Fantastic post oldtimer!!!!
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Dan Duchaine who is used as a bodybuilding drug expert is at the most being kind a moron. This subculture of a sport uses this guy as an expert in underground drug use. It's so sad.
Maybe sad, but reality.
For many decades, many champions have relied on bbing drugs, and they've become integral.
You mention that people want to smear the names of old time bbers as users, in order to justify their own reliance and inability to progress without aas.
I disagree, I wish everyone could be natural, and that I could believe what the mags say, and what the champs say.
But thats the realities, our heros and idols are sometimes hypocrites.
AAS is part of bbing, and has been for a long, long time. That doesnt take away from anybody, it just levels the playing field, since one guy is using, why arent all?
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You always type this referenced in 1938 , Da Vinci referenced the parachute in 1483 it doesn't mean people were base jumping
The History of Synthetic Testosterone; February 1995; Scientific American Magazine; by Hoberman, Yesalis; 6 Page(s)
On June 1, 1889, Charles .douard Brown-S.quard, a prominent French physiologist, announced at the Soci.t. de Biologie in Paris that he had devised a rejuvenating therapy for the body and mind. The 72-year-old professor reported that he had drastically reversed his own decline by injecting himself with a liquid extract derived from the testicles of dogs and guinea pigs. These injections, he told his audience, had increased his physical strength and intellectual energy, relieved his constipation and even lengthened the arc of his urine.
Almost all experts, including some of Brown-S.quard's contemporaries, have agreed that these positive effects were induced by the power of suggestion, despite Brown-S.quard's claims to the contrary. Yet he was correct in proposing that the functions of the testicles might be enhanced or restored by replacing the substances they produce. His achievement was thus to make the idea of the "internal secretion," initially proposed by another well-known French physiologist, Claude Bernard, in 1855, the basis of an organotherapeutic "replacement " technique. Brown-S.quard's insight that internal secretions could act as physiological regulators (named hormones in 1905) makes him one of the founders of modern endocrinology. So began an era of increasingly sophisticated hormonal treatments that led to the synthesis in 1935 of testosterone, the primary male hormone produced by the testicles.
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and goudy would still believ him ;D
stop being stupid junkie ::)
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The History of Synthetic Testosterone; February 1995; Scientific American Magazine; by Hoberman, Yesalis; 6 Page(s)
On June 1, 1889, Charles .douard Brown-S.quard, a prominent French physiologist, announced at the Soci.t. de Biologie in Paris that he had devised a rejuvenating therapy for the body and mind. The 72-year-old professor reported that he had drastically reversed his own decline by injecting himself with a liquid extract derived from the testicles of dogs and guinea pigs. These injections, he told his audience, had increased his physical strength and intellectual energy, relieved his constipation and even lengthened the arc of his urine.
Almost all experts, including some of Brown-S.quard's contemporaries, have agreed that these positive effects were induced by the power of suggestion, despite Brown-S.quard's claims to the contrary. Yet he was correct in proposing that the functions of the testicles might be enhanced or restored by replacing the substances they produce. His achievement was thus to make the idea of the "internal secretion," initially proposed by another well-known French physiologist, Claude Bernard, in 1855, the basis of an organotherapeutic "replacement " technique. Brown-S.quard's insight that internal secretions could act as physiological regulators (named hormones in 1905) makes him one of the founders of modern endocrinology. So began an era of increasingly sophisticated hormonal treatments that led to the synthesis in 1935 of testosterone, the primary male hormone produced by the testicles.
o.k these means what? as far as competitive bodybuilding and weightlifting is concerned?
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hoverboards have been invented for years but not commercially available
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o.k these means what? as far as competitive bodybuilding and weightlifting is concerned?
It means synthetic test has been available since the 30's.
As previously mentioned, it was publicized too. Are you telling me that a drug that would have given an advantage in gaining muscle was available, bbers knew about it, and they were not using it?
When clen 1st became available, and there was very little scientific studies to back it up, bbers started using it due to rumours that it helped gain muscle/lose fat, even though, there were cautionary tales about it, not knowing long term effects.
The hoverboard, Da Vinci's inventions, arent really pertinent here, as they were ahead of their time, or not considered useful at the time. Test was available, known to work, given enough credit and recognition to win an award in scientific breakthroughs, mentioned in bbing mags, and as we know bbers will try anything to advance.
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It means synthetic test has been available since the 30's.
As previously mentioned, it was publicized too. Are you telling me that a drug that would have given an advantage in gaining muscle was available, bbers knew about it, and they were not using it?
When clen 1st became available, and there was very little scientific studies to back it up, bbers started using it due to rumours that it helped gain muscle/lose fat, even though, there were cautionary tales about it, not knowing long term effects.
The hoverboard, Da Vinci's inventions, arent really pertinent here, as they were ahead of their time, or not considered useful at the time. Test was available, known to work, given enough credit and recognition to win an award in scientific breakthroughs, mentioned in bbing mags, and as we know bbers will try anything to advance.
Again you're taking a leap , just because there was a mention doesn't mean anything , there is NO mention what so ever it was used for performance enhancing not a peep until Ziegler ever wonder why? if it was readily avialable to the masses in the 30s you'd hear about it's use in athletics yet again no mentions , not in the United States anyway
for all intents & purposes performance enhancing drugs weren't use in this country until very late 1950s this can be substanciated everything else is just stories .
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Again you're taking a leap , just because there was a mention doesn't mean anything , there is NO mention what so ever it was used for performance enhancing not a peep until Ziegler ever wonder why? if it was readily avialable to the masses in the 30s you'd hear about it's use in athletics yet again no mentions , not in the United States anyway
for all intents & purposes performance enhancing drugs weren't use in this country until very late 1950s this can be substanciated everything else is just stories .
When did bodybuilders and weightlifter and presumably the men who were backing them-the Weiders and Hoffmans of the world realise the muscle boosting effects of testosterone?
I did post an image 1945 Paul de Kruif bestseller "The Male Hormone" in a previous post,,,
(http://www.usrf.org/news/TRT/Male%20Hormone,%20deKruif,%201945%20(cover).jpg)
Some quotes from Kruif...
“How many millions of American males, not the men they used to be, would flock to the physicians and the druggist, a bit shame-faced and surreptitious, maybe, but hopeful, murmuring: ‘Doc, how about some of this new male hormone?’"
''We know how the St. Louis Cardinals have won championships supercharged by vitamins.
It would be interesting to watch the productive power of an industry or a professional group that would try a systematic supercharge with testosterone.''
This book had excerpts printed from it in "The Readers Digest" and had articles written about it Newsweek ,The New York Times and Time Magazine.
The notion of using testosterone as a performance enhancer seems to have started in the mainstream and then sunsequently entered into the margins.
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The book Testosterone dreams provides an interesting history of testosterone in the America of the 30s,40s and 50s.
(http://www.ucpress.edu/image/covers/160/10077.160.jpg)
Here is an extract from the book concerning the development of testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone(the earliest oral form of testosterone)
http://books.google.com/books?id=i_QJHEgl8gYC&printsec=frontcover#PPA106,M1
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my Lord!!!!!! look at the fuccking huge size and mass of the guy on the cover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he must be 188 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o ;D
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for all intents & purposes performance enhancing drugs weren't use in this country until very late 1950s this can be substantiated everything else is just stories .
yes, it did not become widely available until the late 1950s. and by then every top bodybuilder was using it, as can be seen by the changes in the physiques in the mags. but you cannot say that no top bodybuilder was using it prior to that.
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yes, it did not become widely available until the late 1950s. and by then every top bodybuilder was using it, as can be seen by the changes in the physiques in the mags. but you cannot say that no top bodybuilder was using it prior to that.
Sure you can , there is NO proof what so ever , just mentions of it , just from the physique standpoint they didn't start changing drastically until 1960 and beyond if any pro was using in the 30/40 and early 50s he would be an anomaly
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The book Testosterone dreams provides an interesting history of testosterone in the America of the 30s,40s and 50s.
(http://www.ucpress.edu/image/covers/160/10077.160.jpg)
Here is an extract from the book concerning the development of testosterone propionate and methyltestosterone(the earliest oral form of testosterone)
http://books.google.com/books?id=i_QJHEgl8gYC&printsec=frontcover#PPA106,M1
I get that the medical community was interested in the possible benefits of testosterone but again just to state this doesn't mean they were being used effectively as performance enhancing drugs in strength athletes , even at first Ziegler had little success
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one way maybe to tell is by looking at the numbers. its obvious bbers started 'the vitamin-s' around the mid 60's, suddenly larry scott shows up with 19-20inch arms, next year sergio Oliva completely sets a new standard etc..
so when did the numbers of top weightlifters suddenly increase dramatically?
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one way maybe to tell is by looking at the numbers. its obvious bbers started 'the vitamin-s' around the mid 60's, suddenly larry scott shows up with 19-20inch arms, next year sergio Oliva completely sets a new standard etc..
so when did the numbers of top weightlifters suddenly increase dramatically?
early 60s
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if any pro was using in the 30/40 and early 50s he would be an anomaly
first, no such thing as pro back then, at least in the modern sense. second, yes they'd be an anomaly. and they'd have such an advantage over their contemporaries, they'd be in their own league. Kind of like Grimek in 40, 41. Kind of like Eiferman in 48, Delinger in 49.
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first, no such thing as pro back then, at least in the modern sense. second, yes they'd be an anomaly. and they'd have such an advantage over their contemporaries, they'd be in their own league. Kind of like Grimek in 40, 41. Kind of like Eiferman in 48, Delinger in 49.
Reeves and Park.
Cant prove it, but it makes sense. To me and a few others. To some it wont, I respect that.
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Reeves and Park.
Cant prove it, but it makes sense. To me and a few others. To some it wont, I respect that.
It think bodybuilders from the late forties/early fifties show the first discernible change.
From the time of Reg Park in the fifties or Larry Scott in the sixties the visual changes from that of bodybuilder from the thirties and before become too noticeable to ignore.
The best physique athletes from before the second world war,had a denser and less massive physique than physique athletes from the fifties,sixties and seventies.In fairness,you could attribute this to a lot of them mastering a broader curriculum of gymnastics,Olympic lifting and strongmen feats.
(http://www.t-nation.com/forum_images/5/e/5e403-ot.jpg)
A few athletes from the around the time we are talking (ie pre Ziegler) seemed to be presenting a more massive physique and at the same time possessing decent proportion.This was something new and definitely a progression from the physique of a Sandow-a physique which for the most part of the first half of the twentieth century was equaled but not surpassed.In criticism,to the viewer,they presented a greater smoothness of muscle tone and lacked the rugged and dense look of their predecessors.
I see here that the foundations of the modern sport of professional bodybuilding-the development of a massive and well proportioned physique as an end in itself rather than a pleasant adjunct to strength and athleticism-were first being laid.
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first, no such thing as pro back then, at least in the modern sense. second, yes they'd be an anomaly. and they'd have such an advantage over their contemporaries, they'd be in their own league. Kind of like Grimek in 40, 41. Kind of like Eiferman in 48, Delinger in 49.
Again pure speculation on your part , these men genetically had an advantage as well you're assuming it was drug related these men weren't insanely larger than their contemporaries
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As to whether Paul Anderson was natural or not...
Did he ever deny taking steroids?
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Reeves and Park.
Cant prove it, but it makes sense. To me and a few others. To some it wont, I respect that.
Reeves said out right he never did them many times , Park maybe but later on .
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that testosterone proprionate was mentioned by name in a bodybuilding mag in 1938 makes it pretty hard to say that there was NO drug use in weightlifting or bodybuilding for another 20 years.
It's mentioned by it's self NO mentions of anyone using it big difference , again you're trying to connect the dots a mention in a magazine doesn't mean guys were using it there is simply NO history in the United States at least of anyone using any type of testosterone based performance enhancing drugs until Ziegler in the late 1950s
Don't you think anyone would have come out of the wood work by now? especially if it worked back then hard to keep that a secret in the strength community , physiques really didn't change and did the totals really change either? until the advent of dianbol
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Reeves said out right he never did them many times , Park maybe but later on .
Yes, many have denied or admonished past use/abuse.
Sergio did a little deca, Pearl and Scott only did 5 or 10mg dbol for a few weeks, many were clean their whole careers, making huge transformations in weeks. Reeves has been debated at length in the History board, he was obviously tremendously genetically gifted, as shown by his physique at very young age.
I think its a personal choice to believe it, much like Ronnie used to claim to be clean, Mike Ashley too. Even Priest only did a little deca pre-contest.
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:o
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As to whether Paul Anderson was natural or not...
Did he ever deny taking steroids?
Paul told me during a phone conversation on February 2, 1990, when I had asked him point-blank, he replied: : 'Steroids- I never did take them'. This was in response to me very directly asking him if what he was saying was that he had in fact never used, not even once.
So yes, he denied it to me.
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Paul told me during a phone conversation on February 2, 1990, when I had asked him point-blank, he replied: : 'Steroids- I never did take them'. This was in response to me very directly asking him if what he was saying was that he had in fact never used, not even once.
So yes, he denied it to me.
Joe you believe him?
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;)
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i didnt read the whole thread, but Paul Anderson did say one time that he hated every squat he's ever done. He really hated that exercise but he was still damn good at it.
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Joe you believe him?
In a phone conversation with Doug Hepburn in 1989, Doug told me he suspected Paul had been using in 1953, when both he and Paul worked out together bench pressing. I am aware of a tape in which another famous powerlifter asserts Paul used. This tape has not been made public.
Doug suspecting that Paul used is not proof that Paul used.
Paul denying he used (to me) is not proof that he did not use.
Frankly, I do not have enough evidence to assert anything on either side of the issue.
There are several aspects regarding Paul's backlift which cannot be proved by what has been offered as proof. Indeed, that very proof has been shown to be, shall we say, severely wanting...and in two aspects, contrary to reality. So, in this sense, just because some 'evidence' comes from the Anderson camp does not mean that it should go unchallenged. Actually that is true no matter what the source of evidence- always check it.
But in regards to steroids, I simply do not know. I have my suspicions, but I prefer to keep them private because I cannot prove them.
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test
Mr Roark,has anyone connected to the weightlifting and bodybuilding scene ever implied or outright admitted to the use of testosterone for performance enhancing purposes in America before the introduction of methandrostenolone ?
It does seem that the hormone was not difficult to acquire with or without prescription...
'Interest in testosterone was strong enough to prompt the American Medical Association to advise that "these substances ought to be kept out of vitamin pills."'
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10077/10077.intro.php
The FDA was delighted that federal courts have barred two Los Angeles firms from peddling hormones without prescription.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,890180,00.html
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Mr Roark,has anyone connected to the weightlifting and bodybuilding scene ever implied or outright admitted to the use of testosterone for performance enhancing purposes in America before the introduction of methandrostenolone ?
It does seem that the hormone was not difficult to acquire with or without prescription...
'Interest in testosterone was strong enough to prompt the American Medical Association to advise that "these substances ought to be kept out of vitamin pills."'
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10077/10077.intro.php
The FDA was delighted that federal courts have barred two Los Angeles firms from peddling hormones without prescription.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,890180,00.html
Sorry, I am ignorant of the answer to your question.
But I do know who Fred Rollon was ;)
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Sorry, I am ignorant of the answer to your question.
The fact that Doug Hepburn thought that Anderson was taking testosterone is very suggestive.
I wonder,did he say that he suspected that Anderson was taking test at the time or did he say that he thought that Anderson was on something,many years later,with the benefit of hindsight?
But as NarcissisticDeity has stated there doesn't seem to be any concrete evidence beyond(what I personally feel to be) an increase in levels of muscularity shown by some bodybuilders during the late forties and fifties...
But I do know who Fred Rollon was ;)
Yes,well spotted.
That isn't my real name. ;D
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In a phone conversation with Doug Hepburn in 1989, Doug told me he suspected Paul had been using in 1953,
I wonder what was happening in 1953. Competitions photos of Reeves prior to 53, he doesn't look juiced. Later movie photos of Reeves, he certainly doesn't look like he's juiced. But there are photos of Reeves and Eiferman from 53 (that I saw in someone's private collection) where they both look very juiced.
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Mr Roark,has anyone connected to the weightlifting and bodybuilding scene ever implied or outright admitted to the use of testosterone for performance enhancing purposes in America before the introduction of methandrostenolone ?
If you type in "Isometrics or Steroids" into Google, you'll find a long article(24 pages) by John D. Fair for the Iron Game History newsletter.
In it he details Zeigler's experiments with steroids including injectable testosterone starting in 1952 using John Grimek and Jim Park as test subjects and moving on from there.
Quite a good read(as is all of the Iron Game History stuff). It is taken directly from Fair's interviews with Grimek, Reicke, Zeigler, etc... or from their personal journals/papers.
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I wonder what was happening in 1953. Competitions photos of Reeves prior to 53, he doesn't look juiced. Later movie photos of Reeves, he certainly doesn't look like he's juiced. But there are photos of Reeves and Eiferman from 53 (that I saw in someone's private collection) where they both look very juiced.
Any of those pics available?
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Steroids didnt make Park, Reeves nor Anserson.
Anderson probably didnt use, maybe he did? Who knows...
Park and Reeves though, the way these guys stepped up a gear, and they held their shape for movies later in life, makes you wonder.
Grimek, I dont know much about.
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Steroids didnt make Park, Reeves nor Anserson.
Anderson probably didnt use, maybe he did? Who knows...
Park and Reeves though, the way these guys stepped up a gear, and they held their shape for movies later in life, makes you wonder.
Grimek, I dont know much about.
Reeves absolutely not the guy retired in 1950 at the age of 24 and when he did movies he was smaller , Park maybe later in the 60s
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Reeves absolutely not the guy retired in 1950 at the age of 24 and when he did movies he was smaller , Park maybe later in the 60s
He was smaller yes, but still very muscular, who knows?
I cant prove shit. Even if any of these gents were alive, I doubt they would admit it.
Park still very big at an older age.
I met him few yrs before his passing, a bit stooped due to age, but tall and very big frame still evident. Appeared to be a good gentleman.
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He was smaller yes, but still very muscular, who knows?
I cant prove shit. Even if any of these gents were alive, I doubt they would admit it.
Park still very big at an older age.
I met him few yrs before his passing, a bit stooped due to age, but tall and very big frame still evident. Appeared to be a good gentleman.
Most guys did or do admit they took , Reeves went above & beyond to admonish steroid use there would be no reason to lie , especially from him he's a no nonsense type of guy very direct & honest if he used he'd say , Reeve was 215 at his competitive weight in the movies he went as low as 187 pounds , directors didn't want him to dwarf his co-stars
Arnold admitted , Pearl did I mean back then there would be no reason to lie they weren't illegal
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Pearl did I mean back then there would be no reason to lie they weren't illegal
Pearl said he did a little dbol once before a show. There was no reason to lie then, guys used to take dbol by the handful in the gym, but once health and legal issues came up, they all made a u-turn.
Sergio also only did a little deca...
They ALL lie.
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Reg Park no doubt in my mind took AAS.
I mean.... :)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=243940.0;attach=295298;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=243940.0;attach=295890;image)
With respect to Steve Reeves,who knows? ???
BTW here is an earlier getbig thread on Paul Anderson,his feats and possible test use....
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=65340.0
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my Lord!!!!!! look at the fuccking huge size and mass of the guy on the cover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he must be 188 pounds!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o ;D
Now now, don't be jealous ::)
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Calvin Trillin, U. S. Journal, “WORLD'S STRONGEST MAN,” The New Yorker, February 1, 1969, p. 38
Read the full text of this article. (Registration required.)
February 1, 1969 Issue
Keywords
Anderson, Paul;
Athletes;
Dickey, James;
Georgia;
Marion College;
Olympic Games;
Vidalia, Georgia
ABSTRACT: U.S. JOURNAL: ON THE CIRCUIT about Paul Anderson, World's Strongest Man. He lives in Vidalia, Georgia, about 170 miles from Atlanta. He is 5'10" & weighs about 375 pounds. He was in amateur competition for only a couple of years, during which time he won the heavyweight weight-lifting championship at the 1956 Olympic Games. He gave up his amateur standing in 1956. In recent years he has been making personal appearances, mostly at colleges & churches; occasionally he does a television commercial. He estimates he makes about 500 appearances a year. In Vidalia, he presides over the Paul Anderson Youth Home. He donates all his earnings, about $40,000 yearly, to the home, which pays his living expenses and a stipend of $200 a month. The home provides a real home for teen-agers who would otherwise have to go to a reformatory or merely have no other home. In Vidalia he and his wife & child, two other couples who work for the home, and 15 or so teen-age boys live together like a well-provided-for family. Anderson is a Methodist, who believes if you project Christ, the social problems take care of themselves. He is critical of church groups that have supported civil-rights workers. He is a believer in respectable appearance & respect for authority, and particularly love of country. Tells about his engagement at Marion College, about 80 miles from Indianapolis. He did weight lifting, gave a talk, & read some of his poetry, which is quoted.
/sorry, my scanner has been out for years, but even if it worked - it's 9 pages!
add: just recognized the name james dickey in the above citation. he's an amazing dude:poet laureate + the guy who wrote deliverance!!! seminal book: superb movie! any dis-agreers? >:(
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Bill Pearl admitted to using Nilevar.
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I love the iron sports and it kills me that it has been turned into a sub culture that is laughed at by the general public. You can find billiards on ESPN but not a bodybuilding show.
I think most of the hardcore fans and competitors feel this way. We want the best for a sport that we have a passion for.
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Bill Pearl admitted to using Nilevar.
Apparently Arthur Jones had him on it for massive gains in the 50's. Oral Deca, or something ???
Has Pearl actually admitted it?
What was Jones' compound/biz built on? Where did this guy get the cash to be running experiments on bbers as a hobby?
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Apparently Arthur Jones had him on it for massive gains in the 50's. Oral Deca, or something ???
Has Pearl actually admitted it?
What was Jones' compound/biz built on? Where did this guy get the cash to be running experiments on bbers as a hobby?
Yes Pearl has admitted it. Searle came out with Nilevar to compete with CIBA's dianabol. Nilevar eventually evolved into Anavar. Some of you guys are giving steroids WAY too much credit for the physiques of the guys in the 50's and 60's. Bill Pearl of course used but they in no way defined his physique nor the physiques of others in his era unlike the pros of today. Pearl had an impressive physique with or without steroids. One thing you guys are also downplaying is how these guys ate. They ate healthy and wholesome.