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Title: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Benny B on January 04, 2009, 12:45:11 AM
Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
By Ferry Biedermann in Beirut

Published: January 2 2009

Israel’s attempt to force the Palestinian group Hamas to comply with a ceasefire on its terms through its offensive against the Gaza Strip is doomed to fail, an international expert on the region predicts.

The attacks on Gaza would leave Hamas in place, said Alastair Crooke. “It is nothing tangible that you can knock down, it is not a building,” he explained.

Israel was also repeating some of the mistakes it made during the 2006 war against Hizbollah, Mr Crooke argued in an interview with the Financial Times. The country’s leadership was divided on the course of action and had no clear view of the endgame, he said.

Just like Hizbollah in 2006, Hamas was hoping to force Israel into launching a risky ground operation by continuing to fire rockets into the Jewish state, he said.

Israel was hesitant to commit ground forces because it was aware that Hamas had changed its fighting capacity and there could be some “surprises”.

Mr Crooke, a former British intelligence officer and EU adviser, expected the outcome of the fighting, irrespective of military developments on the ground, to be an agreement between the two sides that would see the end of Israel’s siege of Gaza and “a return to normalcy” in the tiny strip of land.

Israel’s attempt to stop the Hamas rockets had so far failed, as had its targeting of the military leadership of Hamas. And any idea to force Palestinians to abandon Hamas was misguided.

“All the pressure that I hear, not from Hamas but from other Palestinians in Gaza, the real pressure is for revenge,” said Mr Crooke, a former MI6 agent and founder of a forum that explores engagement with groups such as Hamas and Hizbollah.

He saw the current round of fighting and the unwillingness of Hamas to extend the six-month ceasefire that expired last month as a reaction by the group to being squeezed by Israel, the international community and even the Arab League.

Mr Crooke regularly argues for exploring the possibility of talks with groups such as Hamas and Hizbollah rather than isolating them, and emphasises that they have a political agenda.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 04, 2009, 03:01:10 AM
Did you pray for Allah today? Or were you too busy building a bomb?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: freespirit on January 04, 2009, 03:45:11 AM
Did you pray for Allah today? Or were you too busy building a bomb?


You totally fit in the masses who are thoroughly brainwashed. The world outside is a scary place for the ignorants.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 04, 2009, 03:49:09 AM

You totally fit in the masses who are thoroughly brainwashed. The world outside is a scary place for the ignorants.

I want you to listen to me .... concentrate....Allah loves you...he wants you to come to him, take that bomb and explode yourself and your family that he loves too with it, he is waiting.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Mars on January 04, 2009, 03:53:13 AM

You totally fit in the masses who are thoroughly brainwashed. The world outside is a scary place for the ignorants.

most americans dont know much about outside the area, they are brainwashed with religion britney spears and mtv.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 07:21:52 AM
The only religion that has allowed Judaism to thrive UNINTERRUPTED has been Islam. Yet Zionists still subserviently side with the Western world (Christians) time and time again even though we've tried to exterminate them from the face of the earth on various occasions.

Talk about obedient backstabbers.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 04, 2009, 08:12:59 AM
The only religion that has allowed Judaism to thrive UNINTERRUPTED has been Islam. Yet Zionists still subserviently side with the Western world (Christians) time and time again even though we've tried to exterminate them from the face of the earth on various occasions.

Talk about obedient backstabbers.

So you live in the past? Thats cool, can you put a short on the stock market for me? I want to make tons of money on this crisis!
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 04, 2009, 08:38:26 AM
So you live in the past? Thats cool, can you put a short on the stock market for me? I want to make tons of money on this crisis!

 ::) ::) ::) ::)

You are a disturbed human being.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: drkaje on January 04, 2009, 08:53:58 AM
Someone should be making money off this mess.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 04, 2009, 08:57:07 AM
Someone should be making money off this mess.

The Hamas does, it's common knowledge that they used to bring large supplies of goods, fire some rockets, than Israel would close the border and they sell at higher prices....gotta love them... ::)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 05, 2009, 01:16:33 PM
Did you pray for Allah today? Or were you too busy building a bomb?

GO HAMAS!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 05, 2009, 01:22:20 PM
GO HAMAS!!!!!!!

Yeah Go Hamas  . . . . . .  to your dirty filthy stinking 72 virgin little boys in the sky after you get mopped up.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: headhuntersix on January 05, 2009, 04:03:38 PM
Mr Crooke regularly argues for exploring the possibility of talks with groups such as Hamas and Hizbollah rather than isolating them, and emphasises that they have a political agenda. ..................Oh ok dumbass. Where do these people come from. Please don't point to his resume, we all work with educated people who don't deserve the postion they're in or make mistakes. These are the same people who missed 911 and WMDS's in Iraq.  Hamas and its leadership must die..dead...gone...burie d. This guy missed recent history. The IDF pulled out in 2005 and all its brought is grief. Israel tore up the settlements, they got rockest and suicide bombs for their trouble. That wall they built has been the most successful counter terror tool that anybody has ever done. We copied it in Iraq. As long as barry continues to keep his mouth shut after he's sworn in, the IDF will cut Hamas to pieces. Israel wants the Palestinians to either move, turn on Hamas or die. Rubble makes no trouble.

Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: CQ on January 05, 2009, 05:00:58 PM
Good move for peace. Invade and bomb some more. Way to go Israel the nation of peace, of course.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Arnold jr on January 05, 2009, 09:18:01 PM
The only religion that has allowed Judaism to thrive UNINTERRUPTED has been Islam. Yet Zionists still subserviently side with the Western world (Christians) time and time again even though we've tried to exterminate them from the face of the earth on various occasions.

Talk about obedient backstabbers.

What? One of the very foundations of Islam is a strong hatred towards Jews...this isn't new news.

Good move for peace. Invade and bomb some more. Way to go Israel the nation of peace, of course.

What should they do? You can't talk with people who have only one desire and that's to kill you. Besides, they've tried talking for years and it only leads to more dead Israelis.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 05, 2009, 10:42:11 PM

What should they do? You can't talk with people who have only one desire and that's to kill you. Besides, they've tried talking for years and it only leads to more dead Israelis.

Liberalas hippies believe that singing songs will bring peace  :-\ ::)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 06, 2009, 05:10:21 AM
Good move for peace. Invade and bomb some more. Way to go Israel the nation of peace, of course.

And what would you do if someone shot 6000 rockets at you??????
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: LurkerNoMore on January 06, 2009, 09:41:41 AM
I want you to listen to me .... concentrate....Allah loves you...he wants you to come to him, take that bomb and explode yourself and your family that he loves too with it, he is waiting.

Allah would never ask that.  Allah would tell you to strap the bomb onto your child and send him out to die while you hide in bunker with your fellow followers. 
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 06, 2009, 11:11:24 AM
Allah would never ask that.  Allah would tell you to strap the bomb onto your child and send him out to die while you hide in bunker with your fellow followers. 

LOL, you're right :)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 06, 2009, 12:21:05 PM
The only religion that has allowed Judaism to thrive UNINTERRUPTED has been Islam. Yet Zionists still subserviently side with the Western world (Christians) time and time again even though we've tried to exterminate them from the face of the earth on various occasions.

Talk about obedient backstabbers.

 ???

Hateful Hadith Again PA TV
A hadith is a saying or tradition attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. One particular hadith that has been repeated by academic and religious figures over and over on Palestinian Authority Television relates a time in the future when the rocks and the trees of the earth will call out to Muslims to kill them. Indeed, according to this hadith, until Muslims start killing Jews and the rocks and the trees reveal the latter's hiding places, the Hour of Resurrection - the end of the world - won't come.
By continually preaching this message to Palestinians, the PA is turning the killing of Jews into a religious obligation.
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html


It is taken from Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 & 177 of the Sahih Bukhari edition of the Hadith. The title of this chapter is, "Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 06, 2009, 12:49:26 PM
And what would you do if someone shot 6000 rockets at you??????

every rocket they fire into israel is completely justified.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: LurkerNoMore on January 06, 2009, 12:55:39 PM

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Talking rocks?  WTF?  Is this why they are still living in the stone age over there?  Waiting for rocks to give them orders.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Hedgehog on January 06, 2009, 12:56:45 PM
The Hamas does, it's common knowledge that they used to bring large supplies of goods, fire some rockets, than Israel would close the border and they sell at higher prices....gotta love them... ::)

Correct.

Hamas are scums who feed off the Palestinians poor situation.

Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: LurkerNoMore on January 06, 2009, 12:57:49 PM
every rocket they fire into israel is completely justified.

So is Israels self defense.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 06, 2009, 01:02:39 PM
every rocket they fire into israel is completely justified.

Ha ha.  Hamas is a bunch of fags who hide behind kids and women.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: MCWAY on January 06, 2009, 01:08:54 PM
Good move for peace. Invade and bomb some more. Way to go Israel the nation of peace, of course.

What part of  “Death to Israel” didn't register?

That’s the mantra of Hamas, pure and simple. They say, in no uncertain terms, that their sole purpose in life is to DESTROY THE JEWISH people.

And you're blasting ISRAEL for not being the "nation of peace"  ???

Besides, they (Hamas) should be thrilled. As the saying goes, "Be careful what you wish for......YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT!!!" They wanted a "holy war"; now they got one.

OOPS!!! I forgot! They don't dig the Jihad stuff, when Israel is putting a foot in their behind. When that happens, they bleat and blubber to the UN to save them from getting beat down. The saddest part is Israel has probably killed more of its own troops by accident, than the Hamas folks have.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Hedgehog on January 06, 2009, 01:09:13 PM
So is Israels self defense.

Definitely.

Israel has a right to defend themselves.

But the problem arises when so many civilians gets killed.

Would 200+ Israeli civilians be an acceptable loss to the Israeli government for this action?

There's this notion that everyone that gets killed in the attack are to some degree an enemy, since they are "Palestinians".

But since they are civilians, and Hamas is the enemy, that is per definition not true.

The biggest problem however, is that the people in Gaza are relying on Hamas for their survival due to the sanctions by Israel. The economy is hurting badly.

You don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Perhaps Israel could change that with drastic political measures.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Fury on January 06, 2009, 01:18:17 PM
Hamas themselves have admitted that over 80% of the casualties have been Hamas members.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 10, 2009, 08:39:49 AM
???

Hateful Hadith Again PA TV
A hadith is a saying or tradition attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. One particular hadith that has been repeated by academic and religious figures over and over on Palestinian Authority Television relates a time in the future when the rocks and the trees of the earth will call out to Muslims to kill them. Indeed, according to this hadith, until Muslims start killing Jews and the rocks and the trees reveal the latter's hiding places, the Hour of Resurrection - the end of the world - won't come.
By continually preaching this message to Palestinians, the PA is turning the killing of Jews into a religious obligation.
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html


It is taken from Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 & 177 of the Sahih Bukhari edition of the Hadith. The title of this chapter is, "Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

You guys keep falling onto my lap.

I understand there is plenty of rhetoric to go around in the Koran the same way there is rhetoric in the Bible or many other religious books that were intellectually conceived at a time when insulting one's honour meant certain death for either the "insulter" or the "insultee".

Apart from pure rhetoric and words, which do not kill, I ask you a simple yes-or-no question:

How many Holocausts have the Jewish diaspora have to endure in Muslim lands?

Like I said, it's a simple question.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 10, 2009, 09:13:46 AM
You guys keep falling onto my lap.

I understand there is plenty of rhetoric to go around in the Koran the same way there is rhetoric in the Bible or many other religious books that were intellectually conceived at a time when insulting one's honour meant certain death for either the "insulter" or the "insultee".

Apart from pure rhetoric and words, which do not kill, I ask you a simple yes-or-no question:

How many Holocausts have the Jewish diaspora have to endure in Muslim lands?

Like I said, it's a simple question.

Where in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  It's a simple question.


Several decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Yemen from the 11th century.  Jews were also forced to convert to Islam or face death in some parts of Yemen, Morocco and Baghdad several times between the 12th and 18th centuries.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

Islamic antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_antisemitism#Islamic_antisemitism

Islam and antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 10, 2009, 09:30:22 AM
The only thing you slap is your salami with these idiot posts of yours. 
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 10, 2009, 09:44:20 AM
Where in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  It's a simple question.


Several decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in Egypt, Syria, Iraq and Yemen from the 11th century.  Jews were also forced to convert to Islam or face death in some parts of Yemen, Morocco and Baghdad several times between the 12th and 18th centuries.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

Islamic antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_antisemitism#Islamic_antisemitism

Islam and antisemitism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_antisemitism

I asked you a simple question.

Please answer it.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 10, 2009, 09:45:34 AM
The only thing you slap is your salami with these idiot posts of yours.

Another great quote on your part.

 ::) ::)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 10, 2009, 10:00:48 AM
I asked you a simple question.

Please answer it.

I did.  Follow the links.

I asked you a simple quetion too.  Please answer it!
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 10, 2009, 11:13:29 AM
I did.  Follow the links.

I asked you a simple quetion too.  Please answer it!

He can't answer it, he is too busy making a pipe bomb to kill children.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 10, 2009, 11:25:22 AM
I did.  Follow the links.

I asked you a simple question too.  Please answer it!

Dude, I did follow the links and feel that my question is unanswered: How

How many Holocausts have the Jewish diaspora have to endure in Muslim lands?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: 24KT on January 11, 2009, 02:01:05 AM
This weekend, there were thousands of people protesting outside the Israeli consulate AGAINST the Israeli military offensive in Gaza, including a prominent Jewish group that says this is pure genocide of the Palestinian people, and won't do a thing to Hamas except possibly strengthen them.

There were however 2 lone individuals in support of the Israeli offensive.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 11, 2009, 02:36:38 AM
This weekend, there were thousands of people protesting outside the Israeli consulate AGAINST the Israeli military offensive in Gaza, including a prominent Jewish group that says this is pure genocide of the Palestinian people, and won't do a thing to Hamas except possibly strengthen them.

There were however 2 lone individuals in support of the Israeli offensive.

Yawn.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Mars on January 11, 2009, 04:03:14 AM
the palestinians should riot themselves against these god fanatics. but i asked myself, does the majority really wants hamas or not?
they voted them in office but on what circumstances.
i know hamas just like hezbollah offers poor people a chance to supply them with food and "education" and serve as an social welfare system so it might be that they are in a stranglehold they cant get out anymore despite their silent objections against them.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 11, 2009, 08:52:10 AM
Where in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  It's a simple question.[...]

Well, I did ask you first, but I guess it's too much to ask. Anyway, I already know the answer to my question (hint: NONE!), but I wanna hear you say it.

As for the answer to your question, here are a few quotes. Keep in mind the Bible has been "cleaned up" on a number of occasions due to the fact that it was begining to sound more like a sadomasochistic manual than a religious holy book. Anyvei:

On Punishing ‘Immorality’
 
Leviticus 20:9

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. 

Exodus 35:2

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. 

On Destroying Other People
 
Deuteronomy 7:1-2

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

On the Evil of Biblical Law
 
Ezekiel 20:25-26 I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.

On Slavery & Subjugation of Women
 
Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.

2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

Jesus, on His Second Coming
 
Matthew 24:29-34 [T]he sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. . . . They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. . . . I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. [Emphasis added.] 

16:27-28 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Scientific Errors
 
(1) Rabbits don’t chew cud.

Deuteronomy 14:6-7 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.

(2) No insects (including grasshoppers) are 4-legged.

Leviticus 11:20-22 All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.

(3) This is only possible on a flat earth.

Matthew 4:8 Again the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

(4) pi does not = 3.

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim . . . It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

(5) The earth moves. It does not have a foundation.

Psalms 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Selected Contradictions
 
(1) 2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

(2) Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.

Exodus 32:14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

(3) Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith . . . not by works.

James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? . . . Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Revelation 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

(4) (Jesus speaking)

Matthew 5:16 Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in heaven.

Matthew 6:1 Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them.

(5) (Jesus speaking)

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

(6) Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and my life was preserved.”

Exodus 33:11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God.

(7) (Jesus speaking) 

John 5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.

John 8:14 Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.


Cheers mate!
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 11, 2009, 09:19:17 AM
And on the MULTIPLE holocausts th Jewish diaspora had to endure in CHRISTIAN LANDS (note that the beginnings of antisemitism in CHRISTIAN or SEMI-CHRISTIAN-PAGAN-Europe ARE NOT a recent phenomenom, but a rather very old one). The fact you would have even HINTED at trying to equate Islam's relatively benign tolerance of Judaism to Chirtianity's NEGATIVELY IMPRESSIVE record of anti-semitism/anti-judaism says a lot about you:

ANTI-JUDAISM: 70 TO 1200 CE

Persecution of Jews by Roman Pagans:
 70: The Roman Army destroyed Jerusalem, killed over 1 million Jews, took about 100,000 into slavery and captivity, and scattered many from Palestine to other locations in the Roman Empire.
 113: Jews in Cyprus, Cyrene, Egypt and Mesopotamia revolted against the Roman Empire. This caused "the death of several hundreds of thousands of Romans and Jews." 1  
 132: Bar Kochba led a hopeless three-year revolt against the Roman Empire. Many Jews had accepted him as the Messiah. About a half-million Jews were killed; thousands were sold into slavery or taken into captivity.  The rest were exiled from Palestine and scattered throughout the known world, adding to what is now called the "Diaspora." Judaism was no longer recognized as a legal religion. 2
 135: Serious Roman persecution of the Jews began. They were forbidden, upon pain of death, from practicing circumcision, reading the Torah, eating unleavened bread at Passover, etc. A temple dedicated to the Roman pagan god Jupiter was erected on temple mountain in Jerusalem. A temple of Venus was built on Golgotha, just outside the city.
 200: Roman Emperor Severus forbade religious conversions to Judaism.


Persecution of Jews by Christians:

Initial persecution of Jews was along religious lines. Persecution would cease if the person converted to Christianity.

 306: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews. 3,4
 315: Constantine published the Edict of Milan which extended religious tolerance to Christians. Jews lost many rights with this edict. They were no longer permitted to live in Jerusalem, or to proselytize.
 325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."
 337: Christian Emperor Constantius created a law which made the marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian punishable by death.
 339: Converting to Judaism became a criminal offense.
 343-381: The Laodicean Synod approved Cannon XXXVIII: "It is not lawful [for Christians] to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety." 5
 367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.
 379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose. Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire at this time.
 380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue; he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God."
 415: The Bishop of Alexandria, St. Cyril, expelled the Jews from that Egyptian city.
 415: St. Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."
 418: St. Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of a synagogue: "If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it deserves."
 489 - 519: Christian mobs destroyed the synagogues in Antioch, Daphne (near Antioch) and Ravenna.
 528: Emperor Justinian (527-564) passed the Justinian Code. It prohibited Jews from building synagogues, reading the Bible in Hebrew, assemble in public, celebrate Passover before Easter, and testify against Christians in court. 3
 535: The "Synod of Claremont decreed that Jews could not hold public office or have authority over Christians." 3
 538: The 3rd and 4th Councils of Orleans prohibited Jews from appearing in public during the Easter season. Canon XXX decreed that "From the Thursday before Easter for four days, Jews may not appear in the company of Christians." 5 Marriages between Christians and Jews were prohibited. Christians were prohibited from converting to Judaism. 4
 561: The bishop of Uzes expelled Jews from his diocese in France.
 612: Jews were not allowed to own land, to be farmers or enter certain trades.
 613: Very serious persecution began in Spain. Jews were given the options of either leaving Spain or converting to Christianity. Jewish children over 6 years of age were taken from their parents and given a Christian education
 692: Cannnon II of the Quinisext Council stated: "Let no one in the priestly order nor any layman eat the unleavened bread of the Jews, nor have any familiar intercourse with them, nor summon them in illness, nor receive medicines from them, nor bathe with them; but if anyone shall take in hand to do so, if he is a cleric, let him be deposed, but if a layman, let him be cut off." 5
 694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of Jesus. 5
 722: Leo III outlawed Judaism. Jews were baptized against their will.
 855: Jews were exiled from Italy
 1050: The Synod of Narbonne prohibited Christians from living in the homes of Jews.
 1078: "Pope Gregory VII decreed that Jews could not hold office or be superiors to Christians." 6
 1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes
 1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a second target. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade. This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.
 1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back into the burning building.
 1121: Jews were exiled from Flanders (now part of present-day Belgium)
 1130: Some Jews in London allegedly killed a sick man. The Jewish people in the city were required to pay 1 million marks as compensation.
 1146: The Second Crusade began. A French Monk, Rudolf, called for the destruction of the Jews.
 1179: Canon 24 of the Third Lateran Council stated: "Jews should be slaves to Christians and at the same time treated kindly due of humanitarian considerations." Canon 26 stated that "the testimony of Christians against Jews is to be preferred in all causes where they use their own witnesses against Christians." 7
 1180: The French King of France, Philip Augustus, arbitrarily seized all Jewish property and expelled the Jews from the country. There was no legal justification for this action. They were allowed to sell all movable possessions, but their land and houses were stolen by the king.
 1189: Jews were persecuted in England. The Crown claimed all Jewish possessions. Most of their houses were burned.

Anti-Judaism: 1201 to 1800 CE

 1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..."
 1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries.
 1227:  The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the oval badge to a Star of David.
 1229: The Spanish inquisition starts. Later, in 1252, Pope Innocent IV authorizes the use of torture by the Inquisitors.
 1236: Pope Gregory ordered that church leaders in England, France, Portugal and Spain confiscate Jewish books on the first Saturday of Lent. 1
 1259: A "synod of the archdiocese in Mainz ordered Jews to wear yellow badges." 1
 1261: Duke Henry III of Brabant, Belgium, stated in his will that "Jews...must be expelled from Brabant and totally annihilated so that not a single one remains, except those who are willing to trade, like all other tradesmen, without money-lending and usury." 2
 1267: The Synod of Vienna ordered Jews to wear horned hats. Thomas Aquinas said that Jews should live in perpetual servitude.
 1290: Jews are exiled from England. About 16,000 left the country.
 1298: Jews were persecuted in Austria, Bavaria and Franconia. 140 Jewish communities were destroyed; more than 100,000 Jews were killed over a 6 month period.
 1306: 100,000 Jews are exiled from France. They left with only the clothes on their backs, and food for only one day.
 1320: 40,000 French shepherds went to Palestine on the Shepherd Crusade. On the way, 140 Jewish communities were destroyed.
 1321: In Guienne, France, Jews were accused of having incited criminals to poison wells. 5,000 Jews were burned alive, at the stake.
 1338: The councilors of Freiburg banned the performance of anti-Jewish scenes from the town's passion play because of the lethal bloody reactions against Jews which followed the performances. 9
 1347 +: The Black Death originated in the Far East. China, Mongolia, India, central Asia, and southern Russia have all been suggested as the source. 10 Mongol invaders brought it to Caffa in the Crimea (modern-day Fedodosiya). Defenders from the city later spread the disease throughout many Mediterranean ports. 11 Rats initially carried the Black Death; theyr fleas spread the disease from the rats to humans. As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five years, the death toll had reached 25 million. In England, two centuries passed before its population levels recovered from the plague. People looked around for someone to blame. They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws, which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder and burn the Jews. "In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000; Rue Brulée...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with blazing wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." 5 In Strausberg 2,000 Jews were burned. In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..." 3
 1354: 12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
 1374: An epidemic of possession broke out in the lower Rhine region of what is now Germany. People were seen "dancing, jumping and [engaging in] wild raving." This was triggered by enthusiastic revels on St. John's Day - an Christianized version of an ancient Pagan seasonal day of celebration which was still observed by the populace. The epidemic spread throughout the Rhine and in much of the Netherlands and Germany. Crowds of 500 or more dancers would be overcome together. Exorcisms were tried, but failed. Pilgrimages to the shrine of St. Vitus were tried, but this only seemed to exacerbate the problem. Finally, the rumor spread that God was angry because Christians had been excessively tolerant towards the Jews. God had cursed Europe as He did Saul when he showed mercy towards God's enemies in the Old Testament. Jews "were plundered, tortured and murdered by tens of thousands." The epidemic finally burned itself out two centuries later, in the late 16th century. 4
 1391 : Jewish persecutions begin in Seville and in 70 other Jewish communities throughout Spain.
 1394 : Jews were exiled, for the second time, from France.
 1431 +: The Council of Basel "forbade Jews to go to universities, prohibited them from acting as agents in the conclusion of contracts between Christians, and required that they attend church sermons." 5
 1434: "Jewish men in Augsburg had to sew yellow buttons to their clothes. Across Europe, Jews were forced to wear a long undergarment, an overcoat with a yellow patch, bells and tall pointed yellow hats with a large button on them." 1
 1453 : The Franciscan monk, Capistrano, persuaded the King of Poland to terminate all Jewish civil rights.
 1478: Spanish Jews had been heavily persecuted from the 14th century. Many had converted to Christianity. The Spanish Inquisition was set up by the Church in order to detect insincere conversions. Laws were passed that prohibited the descendants of Jews or Muslims from attending university, joining religious orders, holding public office, or entering any of a long list of professions.
 1492 : Jews were given the choice of being baptized as Christians or be banished from Spain. 300,000 left Spain penniless. Many migrated to Turkey, where they found tolerance among the Muslims. Others converted to Christianity but often continued to practice Judaism in secret.
 1497: Jews were banished from Portugal. 20 thousand left the country rather than be baptized as Christians.
 1516: The Governor of the Republic of Venice decided that Jews would be permitted to live only in one area of the city. It was located in the South Girolamo parish and was called the "Ghetto Novo." This was the first ghetto in Europe. Hitler made use of the concept in the 1930's.
 1523: Martin Luther distributed his essay "That Jesus Was Born a Jew. " He hoped that large numbers of Jews would convert to Christianity. They didn't, and he began to write and preach hatred against them. Luther has been condemned in recent years for being extremely antisemitic. The charge has some merit; however he was probably typical of most Christians during his era.
 1539: A passion play was forbidden in Rome because it prompted violent attacks against the city's Jewish residents. 9
 1540: Jews were exiled from Naples.
 1543: In his 20's, Martin Luther, had expected Jews to convert to Christianity in large numbers. Distressed by their reluctance, he developed a hatred for Jews, as expressed in his letters to Rev. Spalatin in 1514, when he was 31 years of age. He wrote:

"I have come to the conclusion that the Jews will always curse and blaspheme God and his King Christ, as all the prophets have predicted....For they are thus given over by the wrath of God to reprobation, that they may become incorrigible, as Ecclesiastes says, for every one who is incorrigible is rendered worse rather than better by correction." 6
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 11, 2009, 09:19:52 AM

In 1543, he wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :

"...eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!...What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?

 First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...
 Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed... They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies. 
 Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.
 Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more...
 Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews...
 Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe keeping...
 Seventhly, let the young and strong Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, the axe, the hoe, the spade, the distaff, and spindle and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses as in enjoined upon Adam's children...

To sum up, dear princes and nobles who have Jews in your domains, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one so that you and we may all be free of this insufferable devilish burden - the Jews." 7

 1550: Jews were exiled from Genoa and Venice.
 1555-JUL-12: A Roman Catholic Papal bull, "Cum nimis absurdum," required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful: over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their hat. 8
 1582: Jews were expelled from Holland.
 1648-9: Chmielnicki Bogdan led an uprising against Polish rule in the Ukraine. The secondary goal of Bogdan and his followers was to exterminate all Jews in the country. The massacre began with the slaughter of about 6,000 Jews in Nemirov. Other major mass murders occurred in Tulchin, Polonnoye, Volhynia, Bar, Lvov, etc. Jewish records estimate that a total of 100,000 Jews were murdered and 300 communities destroyed.



Persecution of Jewish Physicians by the Church:
Medicine in Europe during the Middle Ages found itself restricted by the Christian Church. The church taught that it was irreligious to seek a natural cure from a physician when one could obtain supernatural help from a priest. Some church leaders criticized medical schools because they taught that diseases and disorders came from natural means and not from the evil efforts of Satan.

With medicine in such ill repute among Christians, much of the leadership by the 10th century was provided by Jews and Muslim scholars. Jews were largely responsible for founding the medical Schools at Salerno and Montpellier in the 10th century.

Pope Eugene IV, Nicholas V and Calixtus III forbade Christians from using the services of a Jewish physician. The Trullanean Council in the 8th century; Béziers Council & Alby Council in the 13th century; Avignon council & Salamanca Council in the 14th century,  the Synod of Bamberg in the 15th century; the Council of Avignon in the 16th century, etc. also ordered Christians to not seek healing from Jewish physicians and surgeons. This continued even into the 17th century when the city of Hall in Würtemberg (in what is now Germany) granted some privileges to a Jewish physician "on account of his admirable experience and skill." The clergy of Hall complained that "it were better to die with Christ than to be cured by a Jew doctor aided by the devil."

Anti-semitism: Racially-based persecution of Jews: 1800 to 1946


The conversion from religiously-based to racially-based persecution:
Prior to 1800 CE: Persecution was directed at followers of Judaism because of their religious beliefs; it has been referred to as anti-Judaism. CE, Jews could escape oppression by converting to Christianity, and being baptized. The Christian church taught in past centuries that all Jews (past, present and future) were responsible for Jesus' death. The Church also believed that some Jews must be allowed to live, because the biblical book of Revelation indicated that they had a role to play in the "end times." They concluded that it was acceptable to make Jews' lives quite miserable.

Since about 1800: "...Nationalism became a dominant value in the Western and Arab worlds...antisemitism increasingly focused on the Jews' peoplehood and nationhood." 15 Persecution became a form of racism, and has generally been called "anti-Semitism" -- a word "created by an antisemite, Wilhelm Marr [in 1879]. Marr's intention was to replace the German word Judenhass (Jew-hatred) with a term that would make Jew-haters sound less vulgar and even somewhat scientific." 15 The word, (variously spelled antisemite, anti-Semite and anti-semite). It is not a particularly good choice, because the root word "Semitic" refers to a group of languages, not to a single language or to a race, people or nation. However, it is in near-universal usage.


Antisemitism: Persecution of Jews along Racial Lines:
Subsequent attacks against Jews tended to be racially motivated. They were perpetrated primarily by the state. The Jewish people were viewed as a separate people or race.

 1806: A French Jesuit Priest, Abbe Barruel, had written a treatise blaming the Masonic Order for the French Revolution. He later issued a letter alleging that Jews, not the Masons were the guilty party. This triggered a belief in an international Jewish conspiracy in Germany, Poland and some other European countries later in the 19th century.
 1819: During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, many European Jews lobbied their governments for emancipation. They sought citizenship as well as the same rights and treatment as were enjoyed by non-Jews. This appears to have provoked sporadic anti-semites to engage in anti-Jewish violence. The rioters cried "Hep! Hep!." The origin(s) of this cry are not clear. Jews and their property were attacked first in Wuerzburg, Germany during 1819-AUG. The rioting spread across Germany and eventually reached as far as Denmark and Poland. 17
 1840: A rumor spread in Syria that some Jews were responsible for the ritual killing of a Roman Catholic monk and his servant. As a result of horrendous treatment, some local Jews confessed to a crime that they did not commit. This "Damascus Affair" spurred early Zionist writers like Hess to promote the Zionist cause. 17 More details.
 1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church's practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue."
 1858: Edgardo Mortara was kidnapped, at the age of six, from his Jewish family by Roman Catholic officials after they found out that a maid had secretly baptized him. He was not returned to his family but was raised a Catholic. He eventually became a priest. 
 1873: The term "antisemitism" is first used in a pamphlet by Wilhelm Marr called "Jewry's Victory over Teutonism."
 1881: Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by radicals. The Jews were blamed. About 200 individual pogroms against the Jews followed. ("Pogrom" is a Russian word meaning "devastation" or "riot." In Russia, a pogrom was typically a mob riot against Jewish individuals, shops, homes or businesses. They were often supported and even organized by the government.) Thousands of Jews became homeless and impoverished. The few who were charged with offenses generally received very light sentences. 1
 1893: "...anti-Semitic parties won sixteen seats in the German Reichstag." 2
 1894: Captain Alfred Dreyfus, an officer on the French general staff, was convicted of treason. The evidence against him consisted of a piece of paper from his wastebasket with another person's handwriting, and papers forged by antisemitic officers. He received a life sentence on Devil's Island, off the coast of South America. The French government was aware that a Major Esterhazy was actually guilty. 3 The church, government and army united to suppress the truth. Writer Emile Zola and politician Jean Jaurès fought for justice and human rights. After 10 years, the French government fell and Drefus was declared totally innocent. The Dreyfus Affair was world-wide news for years. It motivated Journalist Theodor Herzl to write a book in 1896: "The Jewish State: A Modern Solution to the Jewish Question." The book led to the founding of the Zionist movement which fought for a Jewish Homeland. A half century later, the state of Israel was born.
 1903: At Easter, government agents organized an anti-Jewish pogrom in Kishinev, Moldova, Russia. The local newspaper published a series of inflammatory articles. A Christian child was discovered murdered and a young Christian woman at the Jewish Hospital committed suicide. Jews were blamed for the deaths. Violence ensured. The 5,000 soldiers in the town did nothing. When the smoke cleared, 49 Jews had been killed, 500 were injured; 700 homes looted and destroyed, 600 businesses and shops looted, 2000 families left homeless. Later, it was discovered that the child had been murdered by its relatives and the suicide was unrelated to the Jews. 4
 1905: The Okhrana, the Russian secret police in the reign of Czar Nicholas II, converted an earlier antisemitic novel into a document called the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." 16 It was published privately in 1897. A Russian Orthodox priest, Sergius Nilus, published them publicly  in 1905. It was promoted as the record of "secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was to subjugate and exterminate the Christians." 5 The Protocols were used by the Okhrana in a propaganda campaign that was associated with massacres of the Jews. These were the Czarist Pogroms of 1905.
 1915: 600,000 Jews were forcibly moved from the western borders of Russia towards the interior. About 100,000 died of exposure or starvation.
 1917: "In the civil war following the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the reactionary White Armies made extensive use of the Protocols to incite widespread slaughters of Jews." 5  Two hundred thousand Jews were murdered in the Ukraine alone.
 1920: The Protocols reach England and the United States. They are exposed as a forgery, but are widely circulated. Henry Ford sponsored a study of international activities of Jews. This led to a series of antisemitic articles in the Dearborn Independent, which were published in a book, "The International Jew." The Protocols were sold on Wal-Mart's online bookstore until they were removed on 2004-SEP-21.
 1920: The defeat of Germany in World War I and the continuing economic difficulties were blamed in that country on the "Jewish influence." One antisemitic poster has been preserved from that era. 6 It shows a German, presumably Christian woman, a male Jew with distorted facial features, a coffin and the word "Deutschland" (Germany)
 1920's, 1930's: Hitler had published in Mein Kampf in 1925, writing: "Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." The Protocols are used by the Nazis  to whip up public hatred of the Jews  in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR. Radio programs by many conservative American clergy, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, frequently attacked Jews. Reverend Fr. Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. "In the 1930's, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America's economy and defend Hitler's treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism." (12) Other conservative Christian leaders, such as Frank Norris and John Straton supported the Jews. 7
Discrimination against Jews in North America is widespread. Many universities set limits on the maximum number of Jewish students that they would accept. Harvard accepted all students on the basis of merit until after World War I when the percentage of Jewish students approached 15%. At that time they installed an informal quota system. In 1941, Princeton had fewer than 2% Jews in their student body. Jews were routinely barred from country clubs, prestigious neighborhoods, etc. 8
 
 1933: Hitler took power in Germany. On APR-1, Julius Streicher organized a one-day boycott of all Jewish owned busienss in the country. This was the start of continuous oppression by the Nazis culminating in the Holocaust (a.k.a. Shoah). Jews "were barred from civil service, legal professions and universities, were not allowed to teach in schools and could not be editors of newspapers." 2 Two years later, Jews were no longer considered citizens.
 1934: Various laws were enacted in Germany to force Jews out of schools and professions.
 1935: The Nazis passed the Nuremberg Laws restricting citizenship to those of "German or related blood." Jews became stateless.
 1936: Cardinal Hloud of Poland urged Catholics to boycott Jewish businesses.
 1938: On NOV-9, the Nazi government in Germany sent storm troopers, the SS and the Hitler Youth on a pogrom that killed 91 Jews, injured hundreds, burned 177 synagogues and looted 7,500 Jewish stores. Broken glass could be seen everywhere; the glass gave this event its name of Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass. 9
 1938: Hitler brought back century-old church law, ordering all Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as identification. A few hundred thousand Jews are allowed to leave Germany after they give all of their assets to the government.
 1939: The Holocaust, the Shoah -- the systematic extermination of Jews in Germany -- begins. The process only ended in 1945 with the conclusion of World War II. Approximately 6 million Jews (1.5 million of them children), 400 thousand Roma (Gypsies) and others were slaughtered. Some were killed by death squads; others were slowly killed in trucks with carbon monoxide; others were gassed in large groups in Auschwitz, Dacau, Sobibor, Treblinka and other extermination camps. Officially, the holocaust was described by the Nazis as subjecting Jews "to special treatment" or as a "solution of the Jewish question." Gold taken from the teeth of the victims was recycled; hair was used in the manufacture of mattresses. In the Buchenwald extermination camp, lampshades were made out of human skin; however, this appears to be an isolated incident. A rumor spread that Jewish corpses were routinely converted into soap. However, the story appears to be false. 10 
 1940: The Vichy government of France collaborated with Nazi Germany by freezing about 80,000 Jewish bank accounts. During the next four years, they deported about 76,000 Jews to Nazi death camps; only about 2,500 survived. It was only in 1995 that a French president, Jacques Chirac, "was able to admit that the state bore a heavy share of responsibility in the mass round-ups and deportations of Jews, as well as in the property and asset seizures that were carried out with the active help of the Vichy regime." 11
 1941: The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC estimates that 13,000 Jews died on 1941-JUN-19 during a pogrom in Bucharest, Romania. It was ordered by the pro-Nazi Romanian regime of Marshal Ion Antonescu. The current government has admitted that this atrocity happened, but most Romanians continue to deny that the Jews were killed on orders from their own government. 12
 1941: Polish citizens in Jedwabne in northeastern Poland killed hundreds of Jews, by either beating them to death or burning them alive in a barn. According to the Associated Press: "The role played by Polish citizens was suppressed for nearly six decades until publication of a book by a Polish emigre historian, Jan Tomasz Gross. After release of the book in 2000, the Polish government launched an investigation. 'The role of the Poles was decisive in conducting the criminal act,' [prosecutor Radoslaw] Ignatiew, said. The book, 'Neighbours,' sparked national soul-searching among Poles, many of whom could not believe that anybody but the Nazis would have committed the atrocity." 13
 1942: The Nazi leaders of Germany, at the Wannsee conference, decided on"the final solution of the Jewish question" which was the attempt to exterminate every Jew in Europe. From JUL-28 to 31, almost 18,000 Russian inhabitants of the Minsk ghetto in what is now Belarus were exterminated. This was in addition to 5,000 to 15,000 who had been massacred in earlier pogroms in that city. This was just one of many such pogroms during World War II. 14
 1945: The Shoah (Holocaust) ended as the Allied Forces over-ran the Nazi death camps.
 1946: Even though World War II ended the year before, antisemitic pogroms continued, particularly in Poland, with the deaths of many Jews.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 11, 2009, 10:01:17 AM
Slapper you should call yourself spammer, damn man...damn.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 11, 2009, 10:31:01 AM
Slapper you should call yourself spammer, damn man...damn.

Just watching out for my Muslim and Jewish brothers dude.

Jews and Muslims got along for 99.99% of human existance. Don't let some Jewish or Muslim nazis destroy a mutual tolerance that has lasted thousands of years.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 11, 2009, 01:38:00 PM
Slapper,
None of all that stuff you posted answers my question at all.

You said that the Bible has the same rhetoric as this:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Now, I'll ask you again.  Where exactly in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  Where does the Bible say that the end of the world won't come until Muslims kill all Jews...or for that matter, until Jews kill all Muslims?

It's a simple question.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: flagadajones on January 11, 2009, 01:44:37 PM
once all ennemies have been killed, there is no enemy anymore.

That's why the surge worked in iraq, and that's why the surge in gaza will also work.

And that's why the surge in afghanistan will work, period.



Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 11, 2009, 02:17:35 PM
Slapper,
None of all that stuff you posted answers my question at all.

You said that the Bible has the same rhetoric as this:

Now, I'll ask you again.  Where exactly in the Bible is this same rhetoric?  Where does the Bible say that the end of the world won't come until Muslims kill all Jews...or for that matter, until Jews kill all Muslims?

It's a simple question.

That is the stupidest counterargument I've read in many years.

I posted it and you didn't even read it!

Deuteronomy 7:1-2

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.


What in the fucking world do you think the Bible is talking about when they say things like "[...]do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them[...]" or "[...]then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy[...]"? Or, is your "beef" with the fact that the Bible does not specify exactly that Christians must hate Jews? Because that is your argument then turn off the lights and let's get the fuck outta here buddy.

I presume the Bible insinuating that all non-Christians must die doesn't apply as a response. Hate to break it to ya, but the last I checked Muslims and Jews applied as "non-Christians".

I guess the fact that every statue of Moses in every church/cathedral in Europe having the devil's horns is just another example of Christians loving Jews.

Now, answer my question, how many (Jewish) holocausts took place is Muslim lands?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Cavalier22 on January 11, 2009, 02:39:16 PM
both the bible and the koran were written by human beings

get over it
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 11, 2009, 03:03:36 PM
both the bible and the koran were written by human beings

get over it

Loved your "bomb"!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 11, 2009, 04:44:44 PM
That is the stupidest counterargument I've read in many years.

I posted it and you didn't even read it!

Deuteronomy 7:1-2

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.


What in the fucking world do you think the Bible is talking about when they say things like "[...]do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them[...]" or "[...]then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy[...]"? Or, is your "beef" with the fact that the Bible does not specify exactly that Christians must hate Jews? Because that is your argument then turn off the lights and let's get the fuck outta here buddy.

I presume the Bible insinuating that all non-Christians must die doesn't apply as a response. Hate to break it to ya, but the last I checked Muslims and Jews applied as "non-Christians".

I guess the fact that every statue of Moses in every church/cathedral in Europe having the devil's horns is just another example of Christians loving Jews.

Now, answer my question, how many (Jewish) holocausts took place is Muslim lands?

There were Muslims and Christians when Deuteronomy was written, or at the time of the events written about in Deuteronomy? 

You're just playing.  You're not that ignorant, are you?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 11, 2009, 09:51:14 PM
There were Muslims and Christians when Deuteronomy was written, or at the time of the events written about in Deuteronomy? 

You're just playing.  You're not that ignorant, are you?


He most certainly is!  >:(
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: bigdumbbell on January 11, 2009, 09:55:20 PM
israel needs to destroy the terrorist Hamas agents and so far they are doing it.  and hamas is being funded by iran...
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: flagadajones on January 11, 2009, 10:30:57 PM
looks like israelis decided to end it all once for all nomatter what the world has to say.

My guess is that they re are tearing a lot of new assholes and that hamas and palis are getting completely otugunned and analy pounded.

They didnt see that one coming, and the jews arent here to joke this time, it's all about killing every single ennemy until not one remains.



GO JEWS, FUCKING KILL EM ALL. MAY THE REST OF THE WORLD TAKES NOTICE ON HOW TO DEAL WITH ISLAM.


once all ennemies have been killed, there is no enemy anymore.

That's why the surge worked in iraq, and that's why the surge in gaza will also work.

And that's why the surge in afghanistan will work, period.






its time for some real informations instead of the constantly MSM biased diharrea ...:


http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/01/video-hamas-exploitation-of-civilians.html
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Benny B on January 12, 2009, 04:20:43 AM
looks like israelis decided to end it all once for all nomatter what the world has to say.

My guess is that they re are tearing a lot of new assholes and that hamas and palis are getting completely otugunned and analy pounded.

They didnt see that one coming, and the jews arent here to joke this time, it's all about killing every single ennemy until not one remains.



GO JEWS, FUCKING KILL EM ALL. MAY THE REST OF THE WORLD TAKES NOTICE ON HOW TO DEAL WITH ISLAM.


once all ennemies have been killed, there is no enemy anymore.

That's why the surge worked in iraq, and that's why the surge in gaza will also work.

And that's why the surge in afghanistan will work, period.






its time for some real informations instead of the constantly MSM biased diharrea ...:


http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2009/01/video-hamas-exploitation-of-civilians.html
Gee, yet another neo-con Jew on this board. As he says, he's here to hate.  ::)

Time to make that appointment with the therapist for counseling and medication.  ;)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: flagadajones on January 12, 2009, 01:38:11 PM
currently, the only "doomed" people are the palis islamists/ terrorists  :-*
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 17, 2009, 02:50:12 PM
There were Muslims and Christians when Deuteronomy was written, or at the time of the events written about in Deuteronomy? 

You're just playing.  You're not that ignorant, are you?

That is inconsequential. You asked about similar rhetoric in the Bible and I proved to you. Whether Jews, Muslims, Jennifer Lopez, Da Pope, Biggie Smalls, the Macarena or the Dalai Lama were present when the book was written, conceived or even re-written is inconsequential: It doesn't alter ONE FUCKING BIT the intolerant nature of it's writtings.

What I wrote... a 4th grader would be able to understand.

You didn't.

Wow.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on January 17, 2009, 06:25:39 PM
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:UJA0u7eNm7JJFM:http://www.mises.org/images/people/paul_ron.jpg)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 19, 2009, 09:04:19 AM
That is inconsequential. You asked about similar rhetoric in the Bible and I proved to you. Whether Jews, Muslims, Jennifer Lopez, Da Pope, Biggie Smalls, the Macarena or the Dalai Lama were present when the book was written, conceived or even re-written is inconsequential: It doesn't alter ONE FUCKING BIT the intolerant nature of it's writtings.

What I wrote... a 4th grader would be able to understand.

You didn't.

Wow.

There, you could not find similar rhetoric in the Bible.  Just admit it and drop your baseless claim.  Not only is the Muslim text very specific and very clear about Muslims killing Jews, but Muslim leaders today use this text to encourage Muslims to kill all Jews.

Hateful Hadith Again PA TV
A hadith is a saying or tradition attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. One particular hadith that has been repeated by academic and religious figures over and over on Palestinian Authority Television relates a time in the future when the rocks and the trees of the earth will call out to Muslims to kill them. Indeed, according to this hadith, until Muslims start killing Jews and the rocks and the trees reveal the latter's hiding places, the Hour of Resurrection - the end of the world - won't come.
By continually preaching this message to Palestinians, the PA is turning the killing of Jews into a religious obligation.
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html


It is taken from Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 & 177 of the Sahih Bukhari edition of the Hadith. The title of this chapter is, "Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

As for the Arab and Persian love and tolerance for Jews you preach, what have you to say about this?

Esther 3:12-14
12 Then on the thirteenth day of the first month the royal secretaries were summoned. They wrote out in the script of each province and in the language of each people all Haman's orders to the king's satraps, the governors of the various provinces and the nobles of the various peoples. These were written in the name of King Xerxes himself and sealed with his own ring. 13 Dispatches were sent by couriers to all the king's provinces with the order to destroy, kill and annihilate all the Jews—young and old, women and little children—on a single day, the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, the month of Adar, and to plunder their goods. 14 A copy of the text of the edict was to be issued as law in every province and made known to the people of every nationality so they would be ready for that day.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 19, 2009, 09:59:00 AM
There, you could not find similar rhetoric in the Bible.

OH. MY. FUCKING. GOD.

Here we go again. Maybe this time it will sink in:

On Punishing ‘Immorality’
 
Leviticus 20:9

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:20-1 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. 

Exodus 35:2

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death. 

On Destroying Other People
 
Deuteronomy 7:1-2

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

On the Evil of Biblical Law
 
Ezekiel 20:25-26 I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.

On Slavery & Subjugation of Women
 
Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.

2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Leviticus 25:44-45

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

Jesus, on His Second Coming
 
Matthew 24:29-34 [T]he sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. . . . They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. . . . I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. [Emphasis added.] 

16:27-28 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Scientific Errors
 
(1) Rabbits don’t chew cud.

Deuteronomy 14:6-7 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.

(2) No insects (including grasshoppers) are 4-legged.

Leviticus 11:20-22 All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.

(3) This is only possible on a flat earth.

Matthew 4:8 Again the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

(4) pi does not = 3.

1 Kings 7:23 He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim . . . It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

(5) The earth moves. It does not have a foundation.

Psalms 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Selected Contradictions
 
(1) 2 Kings 2:11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

(2) Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.

Exodus 32:14 Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

(3) Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith . . . not by works.

James 2:14-17 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? . . . Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Revelation 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

(4) (Jesus speaking)

Matthew 5:16 Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your father in heaven.

Matthew 6:1 Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them.

(5) (Jesus speaking)

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.

Matthew 10:34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

(6) Genesis 32:30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and my life was preserved.”

Exodus 33:11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God.

(7) (Jesus speaking) 

John 5:31 If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.

John 8:14 Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid.

Cheers mate!


Quote
Just admit it and drop your baseless claim.  Not only is the Muslim text very specific and very clear about Muslims killing Jews, but Muslim leaders today use this text to encourage Muslims to kill all Jews.

Not, that is what you are saying. You asked me to present evidence about the Bible containing similar rethoric as the one found in today's radical ismalic's writings and on the Koran itself. I've presented that evidence. What is it that you do not fucking get? Now your argument has morphed into "oh yeah! The Bible doesn't specifically say 'kill Jews and Muslims'". I mean, how can you even present that as an answer? Have you no scruples? Does that take away from the fact that the Bible DOES CONTAIN similar hateful rethoric? What is it you're failing to see? Point it out man!

Quote
As for the Arab and Persian love and tolerance for Jews you preach, what have you to say about this?

I am saying Islam has been a MUCH more tolerant religion of Judaism than Christianity has. AND I'VE BACKED IT UP.

Quote
Esther 3:12-14
12 Then on the thirteenth day of the first month the royal secretaries were summoned. They wrote out in the script of each province and in the language of each people all Haman's orders to the king's satraps, the governors of the various provinces and the nobles of the various peoples. These were written in the name of King Xerxes himself and sealed with his own ring. 13 Dispatches were sent by couriers to all the king's provinces with the order to destroy, kill and annihilate all the Jews—young and old, women and little children—on a single day, the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, the month of Adar, and to plunder their goods. 14 A copy of the text of the edict was to be issued as law in every province and made known to the people of every nationality so they would be ready for that day.

Fine, HOW MANY JEWISH HOLOCAUSTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN MUSLIM LANDS? Your answer will answer your own question.

Maybe now you will understand.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 19, 2009, 10:06:38 AM
Slapper,
You said the Bible had text similar to the Muslim text below.  It doesn't.  None of what you posted is similar.  And even if it was there in the Bible, what Jewish or Christian leader today use it to call for the complete destruction of Muslims?  Your argument is silly and has nothing to do with this discussion or with current events.

Hateful Hadith Again PA TV
A hadith is a saying or tradition attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. One particular hadith that has been repeated by academic and religious figures over and over on Palestinian Authority Television relates a time in the future when the rocks and the trees of the earth will call out to Muslims to kill them. Indeed, according to this hadith, until Muslims start killing Jews and the rocks and the trees reveal the latter's hiding places, the Hour of Resurrection - the end of the world - won't come.
By continually preaching this message to Palestinians, the PA is turning the killing of Jews into a religious obligation.
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html


It is taken from Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 & 177 of the Sahih Bukhari edition of the Hadith. The title of this chapter is, "Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 19, 2009, 10:15:37 AM
You said the Bible had text similar to the Muslim text below.  It doesn't.

OH MY FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOD!!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote
None of what you posted is similar.

I'll let people decide if it ain't similar rethoric:

Da Bible:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.[/quote]

Quote
And even if it was there in the Bible, what Jewish or Christian leader today use it to call for the complete destruction of Muslims?  Your argument is silly and has nothing to do with this discussion or with current events.

How is it not. FUCKING POINT IT OUT!

There may be 20100000000000 Muslim writings calling for the destruction of nonMuslims, but the fact of the matter is violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity has BEEN much more devastating that violence perpetrated is the name of Islam.

This is a historical fact. I'm not just grabbing it out of my arse.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 19, 2009, 10:19:03 AM
OH MY FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOD!!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'll let people decide if it ain't similar rethoric:

Da Bible:

When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

How is it not. FUCKING POINT IT OUT!

There may be 20100000000000 Muslim writings calling for the destruction of nonMuslims, but the fact of the matter is violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity has BEEN much more devastating that violence perpetrated is the name of Islam.

This is a historical fact. I'm not just grabbing it out of my arse.

Keep trying to spin it.  The Muslim text I posted is not calling for the destruction of all "non-Muslims."  It is specifically calling for the destruction of "Jews."  And this text is being used by Muslim leaders today to justify and to encourage the murder of Jews. 
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 19, 2009, 10:30:13 AM
Keep trying to spin it.  The Muslim text I posted is not calling for the destruction of all "non-Muslims."  It is specifically calling for the destruction of "Jews."  And this text is being used by Muslim leaders today to justify and to encourage the murder of Jews.

FOR THE THIRD TIME: What is it you do not understand about "in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes"?

You tell me, I will help you understand. But you have to tell me what you do not see in my point.

The way you're argumenting your point is sort of like "your point is not valid because the Bible does not specifically say 'Kill Jews and Christians'", which is INCORRECT. What the Bible says is something like "if you're not one of us, you're dead". And that includes everyone. All humans. Unless you're trying to tell me that Jews are the only humans that matter... but I doubt it.

You tell me.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 19, 2009, 10:53:07 AM
FOR THE THIRD TIME: What is it you do not understand about "in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes"?

You tell me, I will help you understand. But you have to tell me what you do not see in my point.

The way you're argumenting your point is sort of like "your point is not valid because the Bible does not specifically say 'Kill Jews and Christians'", which is INCORRECT. What the Bible says is something like "if you're not one of us, you're dead". And that includes everyone. All humans. Unless you're trying to tell me that Jews are the only humans that matter... but I doubt it.

You tell me.

Context bitch, heard of it?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 19, 2009, 11:04:33 AM
FOR THE THIRD TIME: What is it you do not understand about "in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes"?

You tell me, I will help you understand. But you have to tell me what you do not see in my point.

The way you're argumenting your point is sort of like "your point is not valid because the Bible does not specifically say 'Kill Jews and Christians'", which is INCORRECT. What the Bible says is something like "if you're not one of us, you're dead". And that includes everyone. All humans. Unless you're trying to tell me that Jews are the only humans that matter... but I doubt it.

You tell me.

What?  What the Bible says is something like "if you're not one of us, you're dead"?  Please stop your lies!

That is not true.  The text does not command Israel to destroy all non-Israelites.

God commanded Israel to destroy certain, specific nations for specific reasons.  The primary reason was punishment for wrongdoing. The populations of the destroyed cities had long histories of grievous sins (Gen 15:16, Dt 25:17-19), which often included sacrificing their children to false gods (Dt 12:29-31).  Had they listened and changed their ways, they would not have been destroyed. God has said that if any nation is about to be destroyed as punishment but repents, he will forgive them and not destroy them (Jer 18:7-8). This happened to the city of Ninevah (Jonah 3:4-10).

Did God command Israel to destroy the Kenites?  No.
1 Samuel 15:6
6 Then he said to the Kenites, "Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt." So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

Did God command Moses to kill Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian?  No.  Moses even takes advice from Jethro about leading the nation of Israel.(Exodus 18:17-20)
 
Did God command Israel to destroy all the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians?  No.

Did God command King Solomon to destroy the kingdoms around him?  No.  In fact, King Solomon's reign was one of peace.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 19, 2009, 11:13:51 AM
What?  What the Bible says is something like "if you're not one of us, you're dead"?  Please stop your lies!

HOLY SHIT!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

What is the following passage then?: "in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes". A call to get together and break bread?

Quote
That is not true.  The text does not command Israel to destroy all non-Israelites.

God commanded Israel to destroy certain, specific nations for specific reasons.  The primary reason was punishment for wrongdoing. The populations of the destroyed cities had long histories of grievous sins (Gen 15:16, Dt 25:17-19), which often included sacrificing their children to false gods (Dt 12:29-31).  Had they listened and changed their ways, they would not have been destroyed. God has said that if any nation is about to be destroyed as punishment but repents, he will forgive them and not destroy them (Jer 18:7-8). This happened to the city of Ninevah (Jonah 3:4-10).

Did God command Israel to destroy the Kenites?  No.
1 Samuel 15:6
6 Then he said to the Kenites, "Go away, leave the Amalekites so that I do not destroy you along with them; for you showed kindness to all the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt." So the Kenites moved away from the Amalekites.

Did God command Moses to kill Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian?  No.  Moses even takes advice from Jethro about leading the nation of Israel.(Exodus 18:17-20)
 
Did God command Israel to destroy all the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians?  No.

Did God command King Solomon to destroy the kingdoms around him?  No.  In fact, King Solomon's reign was one of peace.

Who the fuck cares about Israel and the Israelites. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANIHILATING ALL NON-CHRISTIANS.

Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 19, 2009, 11:15:19 AM
Context bitch, heard of it?

Oh! Now it's the context of the writings that bugs you!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

You said: The Bible does not contain similar rethoric as the Koran or that being said and written by current radical Islamic clerics.

I said: Yes it does.

You said: Well, the Bible doesn't specify that Christians must kill Jews.

I said: Yes it does: "in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes" is a hint.

You say: Put in context please.

I say: It does not matter because it does not alter the first premise, that the Bible contains what can be described as EXTREMELY INTOLERANT rethoric.

I rest my case (unless you decide otherwise).
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 19, 2009, 11:18:48 AM
HOLY SHIT!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

What is the following passage then?: "in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes". A call to get together and break bread?

That's for a list of specific nations, not for all non-Jews, as you claimed.

Who the fuck cares about Israel and the Israelites. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANIHILATING ALL NON-CHRISTIANS.

You are the one who quoted the Old Testament claiming that it calls for the annihilation of all non-Jews("if you're not with us you're dead").   Why do you bring up Christians now?  There are no Christians in the Old Testament.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 19, 2009, 11:30:35 AM
That's for a list of specific nations, not for all non-Jews, as you claimed.

Loco, what are "the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance" as per the Christian interpretation of the words?  8) 8) ;D ;D

Perhaps... the world?

Quote
You are the one who quoted the Old Testament claiming that it calls for the annihilation of all non-Jews("if you're not with us you're dead").   Why do you bring up Christians now?  There are no Christians in the Old Testament.

No, that is what you are saying. I am talking about the Christian interpretation of the writings (which yes, are judaic in origin but lo and behold are part of the Christian book of secrets).
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: loco on January 19, 2009, 11:36:13 AM
Loco, what are "the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance" as per the Christian interpretation of the words?  8) 8) ;D ;D

Perhaps... the world?

I am a Christian.  So NO.

No, that is what you are saying. I am talking about the Christian interpretation of the writings (which yes, are judaic in origin but lo and behold are part of the Christian book of secrets).

No.

Perhaps you should stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about. 

It's amazing all the spinning, twisting, mental acrobatics and jumping through hoops you are having to do trying to accuse the Bible of saying something that just isn't there:  "If you're not with us, you're dead."

Yet, nobody has to interpret, spin or twist something as clear as this:

Hateful Hadith Again PA TV
A hadith is a saying or tradition attributed to the Prophet Muhammad. One particular hadith that has been repeated by academic and religious figures over and over on Palestinian Authority Television relates a time in the future when the rocks and the trees of the earth will call out to Muslims to kill them. Indeed, according to this hadith, until Muslims start killing Jews and the rocks and the trees reveal the latter's hiding places, the Hour of Resurrection - the end of the world - won't come.
By continually preaching this message to Palestinians, the PA is turning the killing of Jews into a religious obligation.
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html


It is taken from Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176 & 177 of the Sahih Bukhari edition of the Hadith. The title of this chapter is, "Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 19, 2009, 04:13:19 PM
I am a Christian.  So NO.

You are a Christian so no... what exactly? Is the Old Testament part of the Bible? Yes or no.

Quote
No.

Perhaps you should stop talking about things you obviously know nothing about. 

It's amazing all the spinning, twisting, mental acrobatics and jumping through hoops you are having to do trying to accuse the Bible of saying something that just isn't there:  "If you're not with us, you're dead.

But what exactly am I saying that is wrong??? Point it out man!!! That the Old Testament is not part of the Christian Biblical Canon? What are you NOT fucking seeing here bud?

Since you don't trust my word, visit this (http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/BibleViolence.htm) site. Or this (http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/jpc/echoes/echoes-18-07.html) one. Or this (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Bible-Quran-Violence.htm) one from a Muslim perspective. But it doesn't matter any way right? I mean, if you say there isn't then that must mean that there really isn't any violence in the Bible (even though when doing a google search of "violence in the Bible" you get almost 10,000,000 hits; while "violence in the Koran" or "Qur'an" doesn't even get 5 million hits).

Quote
Yet, nobody has to interpret, spin or twist something as clear as this:

I did, I showed it to you and you do not want to see it. What am I supposed to do? You tell me.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 19, 2009, 05:06:05 PM
islamic ideology is to spread islam through force. others are to be brought into the religion. while historically violent, at least they allow the capacity for all otehr peoples to attain an equal status as muslims.

judaism on the other hand, teaches that the jews are the chosen people, do not even try to convert others as they are all sub-human and can never be more than subhuman. gentiles are to be exploited for the benefit of jews.

islam tells you right up front, join us or else, their strategy is out in the open for all to see so they get alot more attention. meanwhile judaism tells you they are your friend, smiles at you all while working to exploit you and stabbing you in the back for their own benefit. their style is much more discreet and in contrast to islam it gets little noticed.

christianity is in comparison far more accepting of other cultures and encourages a much more peaceful kind of ideology than the other two
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 19, 2009, 10:24:23 PM
islamic ideology is to spread islam through force. others are to be brought into the religion. while historically violent, at least they allow the capacity for all otehr peoples to attain an equal status as muslims.

judaism on the other hand, teaches that the jews are the chosen people, do not even try to convert others as they are all sub-human and can never be more than subhuman. gentiles are to be exploited for the benefit of jews.

islam tells you right up front, join us or else, their strategy is out in the open for all to see so they get alot more attention. meanwhile judaism tells you they are your friend, smiles at you all while working to exploit you and stabbing you in the back for their own benefit. their style is much more discreet and in contrast to islam it gets little noticed.

christianity is in comparison far more accepting of other cultures and encourages a much more peaceful kind of ideology than the other two


All religions suck, the only difference is there is one religion who people explode themself in its name and others help the world in their name.

Want to guess who is who?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 04:54:20 AM
[...]christianity is in comparison far more accepting of other cultures and encourages a much more peaceful kind of ideology than the other two

Well, that could be easily debatable from every angle. I mean, people are fixated on the Koran and the Bible, but the real proof of an evil religion is the number of people it has directly killed. Christianism has BY FAR the worst record. It may have cleaned up its act now, partly because people are fed up with it and partly because some places that were intensely religious have developed democratic institutions that eventually made the Church seems out of date and touch with reality. In essence the Church has been tamed to the point they can no longer affect policy or conspire against other religions.

It is in this precise disconnect between religion and democracy is where Islamophobes like to meet, completely ignoring Christianity's extremely violent past and only concentrating on the very recent democratic present. And this is precisely where the best course of action also gets lost. On the one hand there are people who believe the best way to fight Islamic extremism is by encouraging the development of democratic institutions in the Middle East, although Big Business does not like that option and it is most likely not going to happen. On the other hand we can fight Islamic extremism directly by bombing terrorists, civilians and leaving the same butchers in power, which will not solve a thing.

Having said this, and this is something I talk to a Muslim friend about sometimes, these steps of understanding must be taken on both sides, not just Christianism. Meaning the Middle East has to open its doors much in the same way the Western world has opened its doors to them.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Nordic Superman on January 20, 2009, 06:12:35 AM
HOW MANY JEWISH HOLOCAUSTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN MUSLIM LANDS? Your answer will answer your own question.

Maybe now you will understand.

The Jewish presence in the Arabic peninsula was removed by force by the muslims, slaughtered or converted.

Even to this day (ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Arabian_Peninsula#History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia):

Quote
There is virtually no Jewish activity in Saudi Arabia today. Jews as such are not permitted to visit or live there. Public worship of all religions but Islam is strictly forbidden.

islamic ideology is to spread islam through force. others are to be brought into the religion. while historically violent, at least they allow the capacity for all otehr peoples to attain an equal status as muslims.

False. There is a taxation (jizya) and the removal of other benefits for not being a muslim whilst under islamic rule, is that what you deem equal status?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Nordic Superman on January 20, 2009, 06:18:17 AM
Well, that could be easily debatable from every angle. I mean, people are fixated on the Koran and the Bible, but the real proof of an evil religion is the number of people it has directly killed. Christianism has BY FAR the worst record. It may have cleaned up its act now, partly because people are fed up with it and partly because some places that were intensely religious have developed democratic institutions that eventually made the Church seems out of date and touch with reality. In essence the Church has been tamed to the point they can no longer affect policy or conspire against other religions.

Directly killed? Christianity has the worst record? Evidence?

We've been through this, Christianity wasn't the inspiration for the rise of Nazism.

Western Europe is lucky it was part of Christendom because it allowed for the progress of democratic values which islam strictly opposes.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 20, 2009, 07:24:59 AM
Slapper is the type of guy who protested Israel from his 99% white hamlet of Chappaqua where the clintons, Soros, Gears, Chevy chase, Martha stweart live.

Check this out. 

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090111/NEWS02/901110361

Slapper was part of this little moronic group. 
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: headhuntersix on January 20, 2009, 07:27:11 AM
Congrats to the IDF...swift..not so silent and very deadly.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 20, 2009, 07:30:17 AM
Congrats to the IDF...swift..not so silent and very deadly.

Check out the site I posted and look at the video on the upper right.  i wonder if Slapper is the fool trying to intimidate the small old guy.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 10:43:23 AM
Directly killed? Christianity has the worst record? Evidence?

We've been through this, Christianity wasn't the inspiration for the rise of Nazism.

Western Europe is lucky it was part of Christendom because it allowed for the progress of democratic values which islam strictly opposes.

We've gone through this before.

Don't fucking play stupid.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 10:45:31 AM
Slapper is the type of guy who protested Israel from his 99% white hamlet of Chappaqua where the clintons, Soros, Gears, Chevy chase, Martha stweart live.

Check this out. 

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090111/NEWS02/901110361

Slapper was part of this little moronic group. 


That's right! That's why we live on the nice part of the county.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 10:52:55 AM
Check out the site I posted and look at the video on the upper right.  i wonder if Slapper is the fool trying to intimidate the small old guy.

I have no idea who those people are.

And, by the way, I'm not in that group. If I were I guarantee you the ones holding the Israeli flag and chanting "agh bagh gagh" wouldn't be holding the flag, they'd be on an ambulance on the way to the hospital to remove the flag from their asses.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 10:54:09 AM
The Jewish presence in the Arabic peninsula was removed by force by the muslims, slaughtered or converted.

Even to this day (ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Arabian_Peninsula#History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia):

HOW MANY JEWISH HOLOCAUSTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN MUSLIM LANDS?

Quote
False. There is a taxation (jizya) and the removal of other benefits for not being a muslim whilst under islamic rule, is that what you deem equal status?

Wikipedia says that the jizya was (or is) a tax "to be levied on able bodied non-Muslim adult males of military age and affording power. In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and taxes levied upon Muslim citizens". 

Am I missing something here? Are non-Muslim males being taxed because they are Jewish or Christian or because they are exempted from the military (which is mandatory to all Muslims I presume).

Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 20, 2009, 11:05:00 AM
I have no idea who those people are.

And, by the way, I'm not in that group. If I were I guarantee you the ones holding the Israeli flag and chanting "agh bagh gagh" wouldn't be holding the flag, they'd be on an ambulance on the way to the hospital to remove the flag from their asses.

So on the one hand you want me to respect your free speech, but on the other hand, you want to send me home in an ambulance if I disagree with you????

Typical leftist. 
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Nordic Superman on January 20, 2009, 11:10:01 AM
HOW MANY JEWISH HOLOCAUSTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN MUSLIM LANDS?

No one seems to be able to answer this question.

Are you an idiot? Saying "holocausts" doesn't even make sense given the "holocaust" was a specific event in history.

If you mean massacres of Jews then look no further at the expulsion, slaughter and forced conversion of Jews in the Arabic peninsula.

Several more examples of muslims massacring Jews here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:13:00 AM
Are you an idiot? Saying "holocausts" doesn't even make sense given the "holocaust" was a specific event in history.

As per Encyclopedia Britannica, a holocaust is a word that "has been used since the 18th century to refer to the violent deaths of a large number of people."

Now, ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION.

And I'm not talking about 200 or 300 Jews murdered in isolated incidents. I'm talking about the "round up all the Jews in the neighboring towns and burn them to death". Boom, 20,000 dead motherfuckers. European style.

That's what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Nordic Superman on January 20, 2009, 11:17:28 AM
OK I may be wrong there.

I gave an example, check the link.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:18:30 AM
OK I may be wrong there.

I gave an example, check the link.

HOW MANY JEWISH HOLOCAUSTS TOOK PLACE IN MUSLIM LANDS guy!

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION!!!
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:23:36 AM
So on the one hand you want me to respect your free speech, but on the other hand, you want to send me home in an ambulance if I disagree with you????

Typical leftist. 

No, don't get me wrong, I'm so far to the left that you're probably closer to it than me.

And yes, I do respect free speech. What I do not respect is a fucking bunch of idiots who do not respect my right to protest quietly and instead decide to mockingly stand in front of me, uninvited, as though they're challenging me to a confrontation.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 20, 2009, 11:26:00 AM
As per Encyclopedia Britannica, a holocaust is a word that "has been used since the 18th century to refer to the violent deaths of a large number of people."

Now, ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION.

And I'm not talking about 200 or 300 Jews murdered in isolated incidents. I'm talking about the "round up all the Jews in the neighboring towns and burn them to death". Boom, 20,000 dead motherfuckers. European style.

That's what I'm talking about.


By your own definition there were countless holocausts, Black September comes to mind as one.
The slaughter of the Kurds comes to mind.

I can recall more if you like.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:30:48 AM

By your own definition there were countless holocausts, Black September comes to mind as one.
The slaughter of the Kurds comes to mind.

I can recall more if you like.

Well, I had to lower the bar a bit because Nordic was linking to pages taking about 2-10 deaths, while the page I pasted a couple of days ago about antisemitism in Christian lands is 5 pages long and shows a looooong history of hatred.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Nordic Superman on January 20, 2009, 11:30:48 AM
HOW MANY JEWISH HOLOCAUSTS TOOK PLACE IN MUSLIM LANDS ####!

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION!!!

Read the link you lazy fucking loser. Several jewish massacres have occurred at the hands of muslims in islamic lands.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 20, 2009, 11:35:48 AM
No, don't get me wrong, I'm so far to the left that you're probably closer to it than me.

And yes, I do respect free speech. What I do not respect is a fucking bunch of idiots who do not respect my right to protest quietly and instead decide to mockingly stand in front of me, uninvited, as though they're challenging me to a confrontation.


So you were the guy in the video?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:37:58 AM
So you were the guy in the video?

No. I have better things to do.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:39:54 AM
Read the link you lazy fucking loser. Several jewish massacres have occurred at the hands of muslims in islamic lands.

Here you go HomoNazi. Now, read this and you tell me who is better at the Jew-hating game:

And on the MULTIPLE holocausts th Jewish diaspora had to endure in CHRISTIAN LANDS (note that the beginnings of antisemitism in CHRISTIAN or SEMI-CHRISTIAN-PAGAN-Europe ARE NOT a recent phenomenom, but a rather very old one). The fact you would have even HINTED at trying to equate Islam's relatively benign tolerance of Judaism to Chirtianity's NEGATIVELY IMPRESSIVE record of anti-semitism/anti-judaism says a lot about you:

ANTI-JUDAISM: 70 TO 1200 CE

Persecution of Jews by Roman Pagans:
 70: The Roman Army destroyed Jerusalem, killed over 1 million Jews, took about 100,000 into slavery and captivity, and scattered many from Palestine to other locations in the Roman Empire.
 113: Jews in Cyprus, Cyrene, Egypt and Mesopotamia revolted against the Roman Empire. This caused "the death of several hundreds of thousands of Romans and Jews." 1 
 132: Bar Kochba led a hopeless three-year revolt against the Roman Empire. Many Jews had accepted him as the Messiah. About a half-million Jews were killed; thousands were sold into slavery or taken into captivity.  The rest were exiled from Palestine and scattered throughout the known world, adding to what is now called the "Diaspora." Judaism was no longer recognized as a legal religion. 2
 135: Serious Roman persecution of the Jews began. They were forbidden, upon pain of death, from practicing circumcision, reading the Torah, eating unleavened bread at Passover, etc. A temple dedicated to the Roman pagan god Jupiter was erected on temple mountain in Jerusalem. A temple of Venus was built on Golgotha, just outside the city.
 200: Roman Emperor Severus forbade religious conversions to Judaism.


Persecution of Jews by Christians:

Initial persecution of Jews was along religious lines. Persecution would cease if the person converted to Christianity.

 306: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews. 3,4
 315: Constantine published the Edict of Milan which extended religious tolerance to Christians. Jews lost many rights with this edict. They were no longer permitted to live in Jerusalem, or to proselytize.
 325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: "For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people...We ought not, therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews...our worship follows a...more convenient course...we desire dearest brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the Jews...How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are almost certainly blinded."
 337: Christian Emperor Constantius created a law which made the marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian punishable by death.
 339: Converting to Judaism became a criminal offense.
 343-381: The Laodicean Synod approved Cannon XXXVIII: "It is not lawful [for Christians] to receive unleavened bread from the Jews, nor to be partakers of their impiety." 5
 367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem refers to synagogues as brothels.
 379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose. Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire at this time.
 380: The bishop of Milan was responsible for the burning of a synagogue; he referred to it as "an act pleasing to God."
 415: The Bishop of Alexandria, St. Cyril, expelled the Jews from that Egyptian city.
 415: St. Augustine wrote "The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus."
 418: St. Jerome, who created the Vulgate translation of the Bible wrote of a synagogue: "If you call it a brothel, a den of vice, the Devil's refuge, Satan's fortress, a place to deprave the soul, an abyss of every conceivable disaster or whatever you will, you are still saying less than it deserves."
 489 - 519: Christian mobs destroyed the synagogues in Antioch, Daphne (near Antioch) and Ravenna.
 528: Emperor Justinian (527-564) passed the Justinian Code. It prohibited Jews from building synagogues, reading the Bible in Hebrew, assemble in public, celebrate Passover before Easter, and testify against Christians in court. 3
 535: The "Synod of Claremont decreed that Jews could not hold public office or have authority over Christians." 3
 538: The 3rd and 4th Councils of Orleans prohibited Jews from appearing in public during the Easter season. Canon XXX decreed that "From the Thursday before Easter for four days, Jews may not appear in the company of Christians." 5 Marriages between Christians and Jews were prohibited. Christians were prohibited from converting to Judaism. 4
 561: The bishop of Uzes expelled Jews from his diocese in France.
 612: Jews were not allowed to own land, to be farmers or enter certain trades.
 613: Very serious persecution began in Spain. Jews were given the options of either leaving Spain or converting to Christianity. Jewish children over 6 years of age were taken from their parents and given a Christian education
 692: Cannnon II of the Quinisext Council stated: "Let no one in the priestly order nor any layman eat the unleavened bread of the Jews, nor have any familiar intercourse with them, nor summon them in illness, nor receive medicines from them, nor bathe with them; but if anyone shall take in hand to do so, if he is a cleric, let him be deposed, but if a layman, let him be cut off." 5
 694: The 17th Church Council of Toledo, Spain defined Jews as the serfs of the prince. This was based, in part, on the beliefs by Chrysostom, Origen, Jerome, and other Church Fathers that God punished the Jews with perpetual slavery because of their responsibility for the execution of Jesus. 5
 722: Leo III outlawed Judaism. Jews were baptized against their will.
 855: Jews were exiled from Italy
 1050: The Synod of Narbonne prohibited Christians from living in the homes of Jews.
 1078: "Pope Gregory VII decreed that Jews could not hold office or be superiors to Christians." 6
 1078: The Synod of Gerona forced Jews to pay church taxes
 1096: The First Crusade was launched in this year. Although the prime goal of the crusades was to liberate Jerusalem from the Muslims, Jews were a second target. As the soldiers passed through Europe on the way to the Holy Land, large numbers of Jews were challenged: "Christ-killers, embrace the Cross or die!" 12,000 Jews in the Rhine Valley alone were killed in the first Crusade. This behavior continued for 8 additional crusades until the 9th in 1272.
 1099: The Crusaders forced all of the Jews of Jerusalem into a central synagogue and set it on fire. Those who tried to escape were forced back into the burning building.
 1121: Jews were exiled from Flanders (now part of present-day Belgium)
 1130: Some Jews in London allegedly killed a sick man. The Jewish people in the city were required to pay 1 million marks as compensation.
 1146: The Second Crusade began. A French Monk, Rudolf, called for the destruction of the Jews.
 1179: Canon 24 of the Third Lateran Council stated: "Jews should be slaves to Christians and at the same time treated kindly due of humanitarian considerations." Canon 26 stated that "the testimony of Christians against Jews is to be preferred in all causes where they use their own witnesses against Christians." 7
 1180: The French King of France, Philip Augustus, arbitrarily seized all Jewish property and expelled the Jews from the country. There was no legal justification for this action. They were allowed to sell all movable possessions, but their land and houses were stolen by the king.
 1189: Jews were persecuted in England. The Crown claimed all Jewish possessions. Most of their houses were burned.

Anti-Judaism: 1201 to 1800 CE

 1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..."
 1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries.
 1227:  The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the oval badge to a Star of David.
 1229: The Spanish inquisition starts. Later, in 1252, Pope Innocent IV authorizes the use of torture by the Inquisitors.
 1236: Pope Gregory ordered that church leaders in England, France, Portugal and Spain confiscate Jewish books on the first Saturday of Lent. 1
 1259: A "synod of the archdiocese in Mainz ordered Jews to wear yellow badges." 1
 1261: Duke Henry III of Brabant, Belgium, stated in his will that "Jews...must be expelled from Brabant and totally annihilated so that not a single one remains, except those who are willing to trade, like all other tradesmen, without money-lending and usury." 2
 1267: The Synod of Vienna ordered Jews to wear horned hats. Thomas Aquinas said that Jews should live in perpetual servitude.
 1290: Jews are exiled from England. About 16,000 left the country.
 1298: Jews were persecuted in Austria, Bavaria and Franconia. 140 Jewish communities were destroyed; more than 100,000 Jews were killed over a 6 month period.
 1306: 100,000 Jews are exiled from France. They left with only the clothes on their backs, and food for only one day.
 1320: 40,000 French shepherds went to Palestine on the Shepherd Crusade. On the way, 140 Jewish communities were destroyed.
 1321: In Guienne, France, Jews were accused of having incited criminals to poison wells. 5,000 Jews were burned alive, at the stake.
 1338: The councilors of Freiburg banned the performance of anti-Jewish scenes from the town's passion play because of the lethal bloody reactions against Jews which followed the performances. 9
 1347 +: The Black Death originated in the Far East. China, Mongolia, India, central Asia, and southern Russia have all been suggested as the source. 10 Mongol invaders brought it to Caffa in the Crimea (modern-day Fedodosiya). Defenders from the city later spread the disease throughout many Mediterranean ports. 11 Rats initially carried the Black Death; theyr fleas spread the disease from the rats to humans. As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five years, the death toll had reached 25 million. In England, two centuries passed before its population levels recovered from the plague. People looked around for someone to blame. They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws, which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder and burn the Jews. "In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000; Rue Brulée...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with blazing wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." 5 In Strausberg 2,000 Jews were burned. In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..." 3
 1354: 12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
 1374: An epidemic of possession broke out in the lower Rhine region of what is now Germany. People were seen "dancing, jumping and [engaging in] wild raving." This was triggered by enthusiastic revels on St. John's Day - an Christianized version of an ancient Pagan seasonal day of celebration which was still observed by the populace. The epidemic spread throughout the Rhine and in much of the Netherlands and Germany. Crowds of 500 or more dancers would be overcome together. Exorcisms were tried, but failed. Pilgrimages to the shrine of St. Vitus were tried, but this only seemed to exacerbate the problem. Finally, the rumor spread that God was angry because Christians had been excessively tolerant towards the Jews. God had cursed Europe as He did Saul when he showed mercy towards God's enemies in the Old Testament. Jews "were plundered, tortured and murdered by tens of thousands." The epidemic finally burned itself out two centuries later, in the late 16th century. 4
 1391 : Jewish persecutions begin in Seville and in 70 other Jewish communities throughout Spain.
 1394 : Jews were exiled, for the second time, from France.
 1431 +: The Council of Basel "forbade Jews to go to universities, prohibited them from acting as agents in the conclusion of contracts between Christians, and required that they attend church sermons." 5
 1434: "Jewish men in Augsburg had to sew yellow buttons to their clothes. Across Europe, Jews were forced to wear a long undergarment, an overcoat with a yellow patch, bells and tall pointed yellow hats with a large button on them." 1
 1453 : The Franciscan monk, Capistrano, persuaded the King of Poland to terminate all Jewish civil rights.
 1478: Spanish Jews had been heavily persecuted from the 14th century. Many had converted to Christianity. The Spanish Inquisition was set up by the Church in order to detect insincere conversions. Laws were passed that prohibited the descendants of Jews or Muslims from attending university, joining religious orders, holding public office, or entering any of a long list of professions.


Cheers mate.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:42:23 AM
 1492 : Jews were given the choice of being baptized as Christians or be banished from Spain. 300,000 left Spain penniless. Many migrated to Turkey, where they found tolerance among the Muslims. Others converted to Christianity but often continued to practice Judaism in secret.
 1497: Jews were banished from Portugal. 20 thousand left the country rather than be baptized as Christians.
 1516: The Governor of the Republic of Venice decided that Jews would be permitted to live only in one area of the city. It was located in the South Girolamo parish and was called the "Ghetto Novo." This was the first ghetto in Europe. Hitler made use of the concept in the 1930's.
 1523: Martin Luther distributed his essay "That Jesus Was Born a Jew. " He hoped that large numbers of Jews would convert to Christianity. They didn't, and he began to write and preach hatred against them. Luther has been condemned in recent years for being extremely antisemitic. The charge has some merit; however he was probably typical of most Christians during his era.
 1539: A passion play was forbidden in Rome because it prompted violent attacks against the city's Jewish residents. 9
 1540: Jews were exiled from Naples.
 1543: In his 20's, Martin Luther, had expected Jews to convert to Christianity in large numbers. Distressed by their reluctance, he developed a hatred for Jews, as expressed in his letters to Rev. Spalatin in 1514, when he was 31 years of age. He wrote:

"I have come to the conclusion that the Jews will always curse and blaspheme God and his King Christ, as all the prophets have predicted....For they are thus given over by the wrath of God to reprobation, that they may become incorrigible, as Ecclesiastes says, for every one who is incorrigible is rendered worse rather than better by correction."
In 1543, he wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :

"...eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!...What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?

 First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...
 Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed... They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies. 
 Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.
 Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more...
 Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews...
 Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe keeping...
 Seventhly, let the young and strong Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, the axe, the hoe, the spade, the distaff, and spindle and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses as in enjoined upon Adam's children...

To sum up, dear princes and nobles who have Jews in your domains, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one so that you and we may all be free of this insufferable devilish burden - the Jews." 7

 1550: Jews were exiled from Genoa and Venice.
 1555-JUL-12: A Roman Catholic Papal bull, "Cum nimis absurdum," required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful: over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their hat. 8
 1582: Jews were expelled from Holland.
 1648-9: Chmielnicki Bogdan led an uprising against Polish rule in the Ukraine. The secondary goal of Bogdan and his followers was to exterminate all Jews in the country. The massacre began with the slaughter of about 6,000 Jews in Nemirov. Other major mass murders occurred in Tulchin, Polonnoye, Volhynia, Bar, Lvov, etc. Jewish records estimate that a total of 100,000 Jews were murdered and 300 communities destroyed.



Persecution of Jewish Physicians by the Church:
Medicine in Europe during the Middle Ages found itself restricted by the Christian Church. The church taught that it was irreligious to seek a natural cure from a physician when one could obtain supernatural help from a priest. Some church leaders criticized medical schools because they taught that diseases and disorders came from natural means and not from the evil efforts of Satan.

With medicine in such ill repute among Christians, much of the leadership by the 10th century was provided by Jews and Muslim scholars. Jews were largely responsible for founding the medical Schools at Salerno and Montpellier in the 10th century.

Pope Eugene IV, Nicholas V and Calixtus III forbade Christians from using the services of a Jewish physician. The Trullanean Council in the 8th century; Béziers Council & Alby Council in the 13th century; Avignon council & Salamanca Council in the 14th century,  the Synod of Bamberg in the 15th century; the Council of Avignon in the 16th century, etc. also ordered Christians to not seek healing from Jewish physicians and surgeons. This continued even into the 17th century when the city of Hall in Würtemberg (in what is now Germany) granted some privileges to a Jewish physician "on account of his admirable experience and skill." The clergy of Hall complained that "it were better to die with Christ than to be cured by a Jew doctor aided by the devil."

Anti-semitism: Racially-based persecution of Jews: 1800 to 1946


The conversion from religiously-based to racially-based persecution:
Prior to 1800 CE: Persecution was directed at followers of Judaism because of their religious beliefs; it has been referred to as anti-Judaism. CE, Jews could escape oppression by converting to Christianity, and being baptized. The Christian church taught in past centuries that all Jews (past, present and future) were responsible for Jesus' death. The Church also believed that some Jews must be allowed to live, because the biblical book of Revelation indicated that they had a role to play in the "end times." They concluded that it was acceptable to make Jews' lives quite miserable.

Since about 1800: "...Nationalism became a dominant value in the Western and Arab worlds...antisemitism increasingly focused on the Jews' peoplehood and nationhood." 15 Persecution became a form of racism, and has generally been called "anti-Semitism" -- a word "created by an antisemite, Wilhelm Marr [in 1879]. Marr's intention was to replace the German word Judenhass (Jew-hatred) with a term that would make Jew-haters sound less vulgar and even somewhat scientific." 15 The word, (variously spelled antisemite, anti-Semite and anti-semite). It is not a particularly good choice, because the root word "Semitic" refers to a group of languages, not to a single language or to a race, people or nation. However, it is in near-universal usage.


Antisemitism: Persecution of Jews along Racial Lines:
Subsequent attacks against Jews tended to be racially motivated. They were perpetrated primarily by the state. The Jewish people were viewed as a separate people or race.

 1806: A French Jesuit Priest, Abbe Barruel, had written a treatise blaming the Masonic Order for the French Revolution. He later issued a letter alleging that Jews, not the Masons were the guilty party. This triggered a belief in an international Jewish conspiracy in Germany, Poland and some other European countries later in the 19th century.
 1819: During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, many European Jews lobbied their governments for emancipation. They sought citizenship as well as the same rights and treatment as were enjoyed by non-Jews. This appears to have provoked sporadic anti-semites to engage in anti-Jewish violence. The rioters cried "Hep! Hep!." The origin(s) of this cry are not clear. Jews and their property were attacked first in Wuerzburg, Germany during 1819-AUG. The rioting spread across Germany and eventually reached as far as Denmark and Poland. 17
 1840: A rumor spread in Syria that some Jews were responsible for the ritual killing of a Roman Catholic monk and his servant. As a result of horrendous treatment, some local Jews confessed to a crime that they did not commit. This "Damascus Affair" spurred early Zionist writers like Hess to promote the Zionist cause. 17 More details.
 1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era restored the church's practice. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beatified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue."
 1858: Edgardo Mortara was kidnapped, at the age of six, from his Jewish family by Roman Catholic officials after they found out that a maid had secretly baptized him. He was not returned to his family but was raised a Catholic. He eventually became a priest. 
 1873: The term "antisemitism" is first used in a pamphlet by Wilhelm Marr called "Jewry's Victory over Teutonism."
 1881: Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by radicals. The Jews were blamed. About 200 individual pogroms against the Jews followed. ("Pogrom" is a Russian word meaning "devastation" or "riot." In Russia, a pogrom was typically a mob riot against Jewish individuals, shops, homes or businesses. They were often supported and even organized by the government.) Thousands of Jews became homeless and impoverished. The few who were charged with offenses generally received very light sentences. 1
 1893: "...anti-Semitic parties won sixteen seats in the German Reichstag." 2
 1894: Captain Alfred Dreyfus, an officer on the French general staff, was convicted of treason. The evidence against him consisted of a piece of paper from his wastebasket with another person's handwriting, and papers forged by antisemitic officers. He received a life sentence on Devil's Island, off the coast of South America. The French government was aware that a Major Esterhazy was actually guilty. 3 The church, government and army united to suppress the truth. Writer Emile Zola and politician Jean Jaurès fought for justice and human rights. After 10 years, the French government fell and Drefus was declared totally innocent. The Dreyfus Affair was world-wide news for years. It motivated Journalist Theodor Herzl to write a book in 1896: "The Jewish State: A Modern Solution to the Jewish Question." The book led to the founding of the Zionist movement which fought for a Jewish Homeland. A half century later, the state of Israel was born.
 1903: At Easter, government agents organized an anti-Jewish pogrom in Kishinev, Moldova, Russia. The local newspaper published a series of inflammatory articles. A Christian child was discovered murdered and a young Christian woman at the Jewish Hospital committed suicide. Jews were blamed for the deaths. Violence ensured. The 5,000 soldiers in the town did nothing. When the smoke cleared, 49 Jews had been killed, 500 were injured; 700 homes looted and destroyed, 600 businesses and shops looted, 2000 families left homeless. Later, it was discovered that the child had been murdered by its relatives and the suicide was unrelated to the Jews. 4
 1905: The Okhrana, the Russian secret police in the reign of Czar Nicholas II, converted an earlier antisemitic novel into a document called the "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." 16 It was published privately in 1897. A Russian Orthodox priest, Sergius Nilus, published them publicly  in 1905. It was promoted as the record of "secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was to subjugate and exterminate the Christians." 5 The Protocols were used by the Okhrana in a propaganda campaign that was associated with massacres of the Jews. These were the Czarist Pogroms of 1905.
 1915: 600,000 Jews were forcibly moved from the western borders of Russia towards the interior. About 100,000 died of exposure or starvation.
 1917: "In the civil war following the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the reactionary White Armies made extensive use of the Protocols to incite widespread slaughters of Jews." 5  Two hundred thousand Jews were murdered in the Ukraine alone.
 1920: The Protocols reach England and the United States. They are exposed as a forgery, but are widely circulated. Henry Ford sponsored a study of international activities of Jews. This led to a series of antisemitic articles in the Dearborn Independent, which were published in a book, "The International Jew." The Protocols were sold on Wal-Mart's online bookstore until they were removed on 2004-SEP-21.
 1920: The defeat of Germany in World War I and the continuing economic difficulties were blamed in that country on the "Jewish influence." One antisemitic poster has been preserved from that era. 6 It shows a German, presumably Christian woman, a male Jew with distorted facial features, a coffin and the word "Deutschland" (Germany)
 1920's, 1930's: Hitler had published in Mein Kampf in 1925, writing: "Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." The Protocols are used by the Nazis  to whip up public hatred of the Jews  in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR. Radio programs by many conservative American clergy, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, frequently attacked Jews. Reverend Fr. Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. "In the 1930's, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America's economy and defend Hitler's treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism." (12) Other conservative Christian leaders, such as Frank Norris and John Straton supported the Jews. 7
Discrimination against Jews in North America is widespread. Many universities set limits on the maximum number of Jewish students that they would accept. Harvard accepted all students on the basis of merit until after World War I when the percentage of Jewish students approached 15%. At that time they installed an informal quota system. In 1941, Princeton had fewer than 2% Jews in their student body. Jews were routinely barred from country clubs, prestigious neighborhoods, etc. 8
 
 1933: Hitler took power in Germany. On APR-1, Julius Streicher organized a one-day boycott of all Jewish owned busienss in the country. This was the start of continuous oppression by the Nazis culminating in the Holocaust (a.k.a. Shoah). Jews "were barred from civil service, legal professions and universities, were not allowed to teach in schools and could not be editors of newspapers." 2 Two years later, Jews were no longer considered citizens.
 1934: Various laws were enacted in Germany to force Jews out of schools and professions.
 1935: The Nazis passed the Nuremberg Laws restricting citizenship to those of "German or related blood." Jews became stateless.
 1936: Cardinal Hloud of Poland urged Catholics to boycott Jewish businesses.
 1938: On NOV-9, the Nazi government in Germany sent storm troopers, the SS and the Hitler Youth on a pogrom that killed 91 Jews, injured hundreds, burned 177 synagogues and looted 7,500 Jewish stores. Broken glass could be seen everywhere; the glass gave this event its name of Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass. 9
 1938: Hitler brought back century-old church law, ordering all Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as identification. A few hundred thousand Jews are allowed to leave Germany after they give all of their assets to the government.
 1939: The Holocaust, the Shoah -- the systematic extermination of Jews in Germany -- begins. The process only ended in 1945 with the conclusion of World War II. Approximately 6 million Jews (1.5 million of them children), 400 thousand Roma (Gypsies) and others were slaughtered. Some were killed by death squads; others were slowly killed in trucks with carbon monoxide; others were gassed in large groups in Auschwitz, Dacau, Sobibor, Treblinka and other extermination camps. Officially, the holocaust was described by the Nazis as subjecting Jews "to special treatment" or as a "solution of the Jewish question." Gold taken from the teeth of the victims was recycled; hair was used in the manufacture of mattresses. In the Buchenwald extermination camp, lampshades were made out of human skin; however, this appears to be an isolated incident. A rumor spread that Jewish corpses were routinely converted into soap. However, the story appears to be false. 10 
 1940: The Vichy government of France collaborated with Nazi Germany by freezing about 80,000 Jewish bank accounts. During the next four years, they deported about 76,000 Jews to Nazi death camps; only about 2,500 survived. It was only in 1995 that a French president, Jacques Chirac, "was able to admit that the state bore a heavy share of responsibility in the mass round-ups and deportations of Jews, as well as in the property and asset seizures that were carried out with the active help of the Vichy regime." 11
 1941: The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC estimates that 13,000 Jews died on 1941-JUN-19 during a pogrom in Bucharest, Romania. It was ordered by the pro-Nazi Romanian regime of Marshal Ion Antonescu. The current government has admitted that this atrocity happened, but most Romanians continue to deny that the Jews were killed on orders from their own government. 12
 1941: Polish citizens in Jedwabne in northeastern Poland killed hundreds of Jews, by either beating them to death or burning them alive in a barn. According to the Associated Press: "The role played by Polish citizens was suppressed for nearly six decades until publication of a book by a Polish emigre historian, Jan Tomasz Gross. After release of the book in 2000, the Polish government launched an investigation. 'The role of the Poles was decisive in conducting the criminal act,' [prosecutor Radoslaw] Ignatiew, said. The book, 'Neighbours,' sparked national soul-searching among Poles, many of whom could not believe that anybody but the Nazis would have committed the atrocity." 13
1942: The Nazi leaders of Germany, at the Wannsee conference, decided on"the final solution of the Jewish question" which was the attempt to exterminate every Jew in Europe. From JUL-28 to 31, almost 18,000 Russian inhabitants of the Minsk ghetto in what is now Belarus were exterminated. This was in addition to 5,000 to 15,000 who had been massacred in earlier pogroms in that city. This was just one of many such pogroms during World War II. 14
 1945: The Shoah (Holocaust) ended as the Allied Forces over-ran the Nazi death camps.
 1946: Even though World War II ended the year before, antisemitic pogroms continued, particularly in Poland, with the deaths of many Jews.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 20, 2009, 11:44:21 AM
No. I have better things to do.

Just to let you know, I signed up for the movement to end Westchester County Government.  As you know it is gaining steam fast.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 11:46:47 AM
Just to let you know, I signed up for the movement to end Westchester County Government.  As you know it is gaining steam fast.

Who's gonna be cutting the pie then?
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Soul Crusher on January 20, 2009, 11:50:27 AM
Who's gonna be cutting the pie then?

They are planning on doing what other states have, no county layer of government.  State and local without the county taking their cut. 

Spano has been an unmitigated disaster as far as taxes, cronysim, wasteful spending, and corruption.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Nordic Superman on January 20, 2009, 11:52:52 AM
Here you go HomoNazi. Now, read this and you tell me who is better at the Jew-hating game:

Cheers mate.

Wait, when did I say muslims had killed more Jews than Christians? Do you still believe their have been no Jews slaughtered at the hands of muslims?

I will dispute your assertion that Christianity has directly contributed to more deaths than islam.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 20, 2009, 12:33:45 PM
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1124/943507547_d1960ae902.jpg?v=0)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Slapper on January 20, 2009, 12:45:41 PM
Wait, when did I say muslims had killed more Jews than Christians? Do you still believe their have been no Jews slaughtered at the hands of muslims?

I will dispute your assertion that Christianity has directly contributed to more deaths than islam.

Look, all I'm trying to say is that Muslims are not even one tenth as bad as we think they are.

And I apologize for my aggressive tone...  :-\
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: freespirit on January 21, 2009, 09:41:31 AM
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Nordic Superman on January 21, 2009, 10:25:27 AM
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=2510

From your article:

THE GRANDCHILDREN OF HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS FROM WORLD WAR II ARE DOING TO THE PALESTINIANS EXACTLY WHAT WAS DONE TO THEM BY NAZI GERMANY...

Read Norman Gary Finkelstein's biography; he's anti-Israel and Pro-Palestine in a way that's laughable.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 21, 2009, 11:24:13 AM
Funny how these idiots scream holocaust.
I just saw a show about WWII a few minutes ago and they talked about the air raids on German/Britain cities.
In one air raid the Britain killed 44000 civilians of the city of Gettysburg (I think it was this city).
This is how you do war, you kill your enemy.

Now Israel spread leaflets and did 100's of thousands of calls to people to tell them that nearby targets are going to get raided.

Damn...sound like a holocaust to me.....a very expensive one...doing a holocaust with million dollar laser guided bombs.

::)
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: JOHN MATRIX on January 21, 2009, 01:15:56 PM

In one air raid the Britain killed 44000 civilians of the city of Gettysburg (I think it was this city).

::)

i think your getting your wars mixed up there buddy ;D

and nobody brings up 'holocaust' more than your jewish friends, everytime they are attacked.
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: Fury on January 21, 2009, 01:29:21 PM
i think your getting your wars mixed up there buddy ;D

and nobody brings up 'holocaust' more than your jewish friends, everytime they are attacked.

Read up on Dresden.  :D
Title: Re: Attacks on Gaza doomed, expert believes
Post by: IFBBwannaB on January 21, 2009, 01:31:30 PM
i think your getting your wars mixed up there buddy ;D

and nobody brings up 'holocaust' more than your jewish friends, everytime they are attacked.

I just don't remember the exact name, but it was something similar to Gettysburg.

Anyway, keep on crying and bitch when you provoke others....common Arab behaviour.