Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Drama Queen on January 08, 2009, 11:03:08 AM
-
;)
-
(http://politicaldemotivation.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/obama_bless.jpg)
-
;)
-
Just in time for the 2008 Christmas season, the American Humanist Association launched a new ad campaign with the message “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake.” The ads feature a Christmas motif with their snowflakes and green and red lettering, and some even picture a guy in a Santa suit. But the campaign slogan reveals a confusion about the nature of morality.
According to Roy Speckhardt, executive director of the American Humanist Association, “Humanists have always understood that you don’t need a god to be good. Morality doesn’t come from religion. It’s a set of values embraced by individuals and society based on empathy, fairness, and experience.” The interesting thing about this statement is that Speckhardt characterizes empathy and fairness as good, but he doesn’t say why these things are good. And that is the real question: What makes good things good? What grounds morality?
There are only two possible sources for morality: God or human beings. If, as the American Humanist Association claims, morality is grounded in human beings and their experience, then some very serious problems arise. The first problem is that it justifies societies that are clearly morally wrong, such as Nazi Germany. If morality is “a set of values embraced by society based on empathy, fairness, and experience,” then Nazi Germany did nothing wrong. Being empathetic does not mean doing good to someone, only understanding their feelings. And the Nazis were fair – all Jews were sent to concentration camps. The morality of their society cannot be condemned by our society since their society simply embraced values that differ from ours.
This leads to the second problem, that morality can change or be something different than what it is. Thus, the grounds for morality become arbitrary and therefore loose their force. What is morally acceptable now may not be later. Or what is okay here may not be okay somewhere else. This system of morality is based on the will of the majority - might makes right.
And that leads to the third problem, that there can be no moral reform if morality is based on human beings. If morality is made of values embraced by society, as the American Humanist Association says, then to stand against those values is, by definition, immoral. This leaves no room for people like William Wilberforce, Gandhi, Mother Teresa, or Martin Luther King, Jr. to better society. In fact, they would be the most immoral people in the society. And this, of course, is wildly counter-intuitive.
So the relativistic approach to morality held by the American Humanist Association fails to account for morality. To be good for goodness’ sake is completely arbitrary on their view. To be clear, I am not saying that atheists cannot do good things. I have been blessed through the good works of many atheist friends. But they cannot answer the question asked earlier: What makes good things good? What must exist in order for morality to exist?
The first thing that has to be taken into account is that morality does not describe actions, it prescribes them. Moral laws say what ought to be, not necessarily what is. The Humanist position says morality is based on empathy and fairness, but it does not and cannot say why we ought to act on those things. The ought-ness we see in moral laws are commands that oblige us, they are commandments. And commandments have authority over our actions. Morality is also universal; it applies to all people in all places at all times. This means morality is objective, not relative. The existence of morality does not depend on our existence.
Prescriptions and commands are forms of communication, and communication happens only between minds. Also, because morals deal with purpose and will, the source of morality must also have purpose and a will. Because morals are universal and transcend individuals, societies, and time, the source must be universal and transcendent. Since morals are authoritative they must come from an authority, and authority can only be held by a person. Finally, this person must have the power to impose his moral will on us and provide us with an ability to know their moral will through intuition. Thus, morals come from a transcendent person who has the power and authority to impose a moral law on us. And we call this person God. Morality is a reflection an outworking of God’s character. It is not arbitrary and does not have an existence independent of God.
The slogan of the American Humanist Association ads means to convey that believing in God is nonsense, while being good for goodness’ sake makes perfect sense. Interestingly, they got it backwards. It is belief in God that is sensible, and being good for goodness sake that is arbitrary and meaningless.
-
(http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/MichaelPatton/atheism.jpg)
-
Just in time for the 2008 Christmas season, the American Humanist Association launched a new ad campaign with the message “Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake.” The ads feature a Christmas motif with their snowflakes and green and red lettering, and some even picture a guy in a Santa suit. But the campaign slogan reveals a confusion about the nature of morality.
According to Roy Speckhardt, executive director of the American Humanist Association, “Humanists have always understood that you don’t need a god to be good. Morality doesn’t come from religion. It’s a set of values embraced by individuals and society based on empathy, fairness, and experience.” The interesting thing about this statement is that Speckhardt characterizes empathy and fairness as good, but he doesn’t say why these things are good. And that is the real question: What makes good things good? What grounds morality?
There are only two possible sources for morality: God or human beings. If, as the American Humanist Association claims, morality is grounded in human beings and their experience, then some very serious problems arise. The first problem is that it justifies societies that are clearly morally wrong, such as Nazi Germany. If morality is “a set of values embraced by society based on empathy, fairness, and experience,” then Nazi Germany did nothing wrong. Being empathetic does not mean doing good to someone, only understanding their feelings. And the Nazis were fair – all Jews were sent to concentration camps. The morality of their society cannot be condemned by our society since their society simply embraced values that differ from ours.
This leads to the second problem, that morality can change or be something different than what it is. Thus, the grounds for morality become arbitrary and therefore loose their force. What is morally acceptable now may not be later. Or what is okay here may not be okay somewhere else. This system of morality is based on the will of the majority - might makes right.
And that leads to the third problem, that there can be no moral reform if morality is based on human beings. If morality is made of values embraced by society, as the American Humanist Association says, then to stand against those values is, by definition, immoral. This leaves no room for people like William Wilberforce, Gandhi, Mother Teresa, or Martin Luther King, Jr. to better society. In fact, they would be the most immoral people in the society. And this, of course, is wildly counter-intuitive.
So the relativistic approach to morality held by the American Humanist Association fails to account for morality. To be good for goodness’ sake is completely arbitrary on their view. To be clear, I am not saying that atheists cannot do good things. I have been blessed through the good works of many atheist friends. But they cannot answer the question asked earlier: What makes good things good? What must exist in order for morality to exist?
The first thing that has to be taken into account is that morality does not describe actions, it prescribes them. Moral laws say what ought to be, not necessarily what is. The Humanist position says morality is based on empathy and fairness, but it does not and cannot say why we ought to act on those things. The ought-ness we see in moral laws are commands that oblige us, they are commandments. And commandments have authority over our actions. Morality is also universal; it applies to all people in all places at all times. This means morality is objective, not relative. The existence of morality does not depend on our existence.
Prescriptions and commands are forms of communication, and communication happens only between minds. Also, because morals deal with purpose and will, the source of morality must also have purpose and a will. Because morals are universal and transcend individuals, societies, and time, the source must be universal and transcendent. Since morals are authoritative they must come from an authority, and authority can only be held by a person. Finally, this person must have the power to impose his moral will on us and provide us with an ability to know their moral will through intuition. Thus, morals come from a transcendent person who has the power and authority to impose a moral law on us. And we call this person God. Morality is a reflection an outworking of God’s character. It is not arbitrary and does not have an existence independent of God.
The slogan of the American Humanist Association ads means to convey that believing in God is nonsense, while being good for goodness’ sake makes perfect sense. Interestingly, they got it backwards. It is belief in God that is sensible, and being good for goodness sake that is arbitrary and meaningless.
Not all Germans were Nazis. ::)
-
Not all Germans were Nazis. ::)
It does not say that all Germans were Nazis when it uses the phrase "Nazi Germany". It refers to the government in control of that country at that time. That's why later on the word "Nazis", not GERMANS, is used to point that out.
Try to keep up.
-
(http://www.gapingvoid.com/atheism219.jpg)
-
atheists don't believe in God but they all have a God complex-ironic
-
;)
-
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q85/junowalker/atheismmakessense.jpg)
-
in my experience, most atheists are still bitter towards God (the Gods) because their cat died when they were 5
-
;)
-
(http://openparachute.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/bizarro_atheists.jpg)
-
proof that God exists
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/tinabi/yelena_isinbayeva_06.jpg)
-
Just in time for the 2008 Christmas season,
it would be nice if you provided an attribution for who wrote this, or where it came from
There are only two possible sources for morality: God or human beings.
no, there is a third: evolutionary pressure. morality is in our genes because societies with them (and who listen to them) have a better chance of surviving and propagating that societies without.
-
religions are dying worldwide as the western way of life (TV, Sports, porn , nike ,coca and mac donald) is spreading through TV, movies and the internet.
-
(http://openparachute.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/bizarro_atheists.jpg)
Fail
-
religions are dying worldwide as the western way of life (TV, Sports, porn , nike ,coca and mac donald) is spreading through TV, movies and the internet.
there is really no evidence of this, at least in the US. in fact the US today is much more religious today than it was 50 years ago. its certainly much more religious than in Europe.
-
(http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/atheist-sex.jpg)
-
This thread isn't about golf?
-
It does not say that all Germans were Nazis when it uses the phrase "Nazi Germany". It refers to the government in control of that country at that time. That's why later on the word "Nazis", not GERMANS, is used to point that out.
Try to keep up.
"The first problem is that it justifies societies that are clearly morally wrong, such as Nazi Germany"
Where does it say it refers to the government in control. Try reading it twice next time before you post it Einstein.
-
Fail
HEHEHE!!!
Did I hit a nerve? Don't meltdown now.
-
proof that God exists
(http://usuarios.lycos.es/tinabi/yelena_isinbayeva_06.jpg)
a girl wih a little boy ass and fat rolls on her back is proof god exists ? lol
anyways this debate is nonsense.
-
Why has Coach become the official getbig christian? ;D
Nothing personal to "Coach", he might be a great personal trainer but he's a horrible representative of Christians and republicans :-X
-
there is really no evidence of this, at least in the US. in fact the US today is much more religious today than it was 50 years ago. its certainly much more religious than in Europe.
sorry there is abig difference between pretending to be religious and being religious.
And yes, i come form europe, so i can testify christianity has died there and that a mixed bag of islamic sub culture and african beliefs are taking over as the new religion with the help of leftists main strem medias and politics who widely opened the borders to the flood of muslims and blacks from africa and middle east.
But again, wether it's in europe or north america, just because people pretend to be either christians, or muslims, they re all a bunch of confused atheists in need of mind discipline and values they re trying to build from a patchwork of beliefs.
Nowadays anyone can get as much as he wants from every philosophies or religious ideologies ever created browsing the web or reading books and i think most people are a bit Atheists, and christian and/or muslims, buddhists etc, while watching TV 24/7 and being materialistic / capitalistic individuals at the same time.
We re all mixing everything we see and hear on a daily basis to shape a new kind of global , international new kind of religion, and that's why someone like obama has been elected in the USA.
The world is building itself a new world order, a new religion. It's hapening right now and we're all part of the process in this interconected global world.
-
Why has Coach become the official getbig christian? ;D
Nothing personal to "Coach", he might be a great personal trainer but he's a horrible representative of Christians and republicans :-X
People have a tendency to judge by the lowest common denominator ;D.... sorry if i inadvertently dragged down the coach :-*
-
a girl wih a little boy ass and fat rolls on her back is proof god exists ? lol
to each his own but to me that gives me reason that God exists
-
They sure do seem convinced....maybe..er uh probably
-
a girl wih a little boy ass and fat rolls on her back is proof god exists ? lol
Maybe it convinces him because no cellulite = miracle :)
-
any true Christian would agree with me.. if believing in no god makes you happy, and makes you a better person for yourself and the people around you.. by all means keep believing it..
-
I feel some strong christian sentiments on this board....oy vey!
-
Truth is, none of us KNOWS anything. When coach said that man found some scrolll which 'proves' the existence of God, I almost fell outta my chair laughing. If course I believe in a higher power or energy which made us and defines our purpose.... but using a man-made scroll to try to sell it? nah, try again.
We're here. It took a whole lot of creativity and miracles to get us here. None of us knows what happens when we die. We know there's a lot of unexplained things in this world - premonitions of the future, for example. Ghosts on video that set off security cameras in gyms. People that use their mental powers to find a body that's been buried.
We can't explain it. our gray matter doesn't allow it. There is something bigger than us that put all of this together. To believe you can prove it, or disprove it, is silly.
-
Truth is, none of us KNOWS anything. When coach said that man found some scrolll which 'proves' the existence of God, I almost fell outta my chair laughing. If course I believe in a higher power or energy which made us and defines our purpose.... but using a man-made scroll to try to sell it? nah, try again.
We're here. It took a whole lot of creativity and miracles to get us here. None of us knows what happens when we die. We know there's a lot of unexplained things in this world - premonitions of the future, for example. Ghosts on video that set off security cameras in gyms. People that use their mental powers to find a body that's been buried.
We can't explain it. our gray matter doesn't allow it. There is something bigger than us that put all of this together. To believe you can prove it, or disprove it, is silly.
The belief in a creator or an almighty ruler is nothing but sadistic wishful thinking for the more gullible parts of humans.
-
there is really no evidence of this, at least in the US. in fact the US today is much more religious today than it was 50 years ago. its certainly much more religious than in Europe.
Yes. Such belief is reflected in your foreign policy. ;)
-
Yes. Such belief is reflected in your foreign policy. ;)
What? You have a problem with the Crusades for a New Millennium™ ? Our entire foreign policy is based on the book of Revelations.
-
Our entire foreign policy is based on the book of Revelations.
WTF? Stick to BB.
-
Our entire foreign policy is based on the book of Revelations.
You mean the Book of Revelation? How so?
-
You mean the Book of Revelation? How so?
These are the end times, Armageddon is near, the only thing we have to do is reestablish the Temple in Jerusalem and then Jesus shows up.
-
Truth is, none of us KNOWS anything. When coach said that man found some scrolll which 'proves' the existence of God, I almost fell outta my chair laughing. If course I believe in a higher power or energy which made us and defines our purpose.... but using a man-made scroll to try to sell it? nah, try again.
We're here. It took a whole lot of creativity and miracles to get us here. None of us knows what happens when we die. We know there's a lot of unexplained things in this world - premonitions of the future, for example. Ghosts on video that set off security cameras in gyms. People that use their mental powers to find a body that's been buried.
We can't explain it. our gray matter doesn't allow it. There is something bigger than us that put all of this together. To believe you can prove it, or disprove it, is silly.
I never said that doctor spin ::)
-
;)
Key word there is "probably".
-
Key word there is "probably".
As you can never disprove a deity. But a smart thinking man knows the answer.
Try something called logic, Coach.
-
As you can never disprove a deity. But a smart thinking man knows the answer.
Try something called logic, Coach.
ok ::)
-
ok ::)
Seriously, can you not see how blatantly man-made religion is, christianity in particular?
There's nothing in the bible that could not have been written by a man living in the bronze ages.