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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on January 28, 2009, 08:13:53 PM
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Here's a list of the House Democrats who voted against the economic stimulus. The bill passed on a 244-188 vote.
Allen Boyd (FL),
Bobby Bright (Ala.)
Jim Cooper (Tenn),
Brad Ellsworth (Ind.)
Parker Griffith (Ala.)
Paul Kanjorski (Pa)
Frank Kratovil (Md)
Walt Minnick (Idaho)
Collin Peterson (Minn.)
Heath Shuler (N.C.)
Gene Taylor (Miss,)
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Are these the "Blue Dog"/"Conservative" Democrats I've heard about?
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American heroes.
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good for them, again the way this is getting pushed through i wouldnt be suprised to see this stunt cost the dems a few seats.
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yep and zero repugs voted for it in spite of concessions by Obama and company
kind of suggests that making concessions to repugs is pointless
I wonder if it's the repug strategy to make themselves irrelevent
maybe we should just ignore everything they want
what's the difference?
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yep and zero repugs voted for it in spite of concessions by Obama and company
kind of suggests that making concessions to repugs is pointless
I wonder if it's the repug strategy to make themselves irrelevent
maybe we should just ignore everything they want
what's the difference?
exactly what concessions where made? throwing out money for birth control, resawding the lawn of the national mall? LOL the DEMS that threw that shit in there should be flogged.
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we have to remember that obama is a very smart man. i hear "Zero hasn't accomplished anything".
Um, no.
He accomplished plenty. He topped the Rove and Clinton machines, some of the best in american history. He convinced the world and majority of america that they wanted him as their leader.
Despite his name, skin color, and lack of experience, he's the most popular man on the planet - Easily.
Methinks he just make the repubs sign their own "invade iraq' level of mistake. if the economy recovers, this bill WILL get all the credit, deserved or not. And that ensures 2012 is easy win for him. he's smart.
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we have to remember that obama is a very smart man. i hear "Zero hasn't accomplished anything".
Um, no.
He accomplished plenty. He topped the Rove and Clinton machines, some of the best in american history. He convinced the world and majority of america that they wanted him as their leader.
Despite his name, skin color, and lack of experience, he's the most popular man on the planet - Easily.
Methinks he just make the repubs sign their own "invade iraq' level of mistake. if the economy recovers, this bill WILL get all the credit, deserved or not. And that ensures 2012 is easy win for him. he's smart.
What happens if the US is attacked on our soil?
Does this weaken him and vindicate George W?
What would 2012 look like then?
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exactly what concessions where made? throwing out money for birth control, resawding the lawn of the national mall? LOL the DEMS that threw that shit in there should be flogged.
300 billion in tax cuts
and yeah 200 million is birth control for low income families
and honestly whatever they want
what's the difference?
they got zero votes from the repugs
the repugs have effectively made themselves moot
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we have to remember that obama is a very smart man. i hear "Zero hasn't accomplished anything".
Um, no.
He accomplished plenty. He topped the Rove and Clinton machines, some of the best in american history. He convinced the world and majority of america that they wanted him as their leader.
Despite his name, skin color, and lack of experience, he's the most popular man on the planet - Easily.
Methinks he just make the repubs sign their own "invade iraq' level of mistake. if the economy recovers, this bill WILL get all the credit, deserved or not. And that ensures 2012 is easy win for him. he's smart.
if the economy recovers due to anything he gets relected in 2012, however this bill wont create many jobs and the jobs it will creat will be mainly temporary and mark my words this will not fix the economy we will have to throw more money at it b/c this package wont do shit long term.
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300 billion in tax cuts
and yeah 200 million is birth control for low income families
and honestly whatever they want
what's the difference?
they got zero votes from the repugs
the repugs have effectively made themselves moot
enough with the repugs bro >:(
500 billion in mostly frivialous spending again this wont solve anything. They will get some rep votes in the senate but hopefully after the bill is reworked and more fat cut out.
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What happens if the US is attacked on our soil?
Does this weaken him and vindicate George W?
What would 2012 look like then?
hmmmm i think it will depend on how he handles it and how bad of an attack it is. I think it would vindicate bush to a certain degree but the fact is if they want to hit us they will sooner or later.
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What happens if the US is attacked on our soil?
Does this weaken him and vindicate George W?
yes it does. his reaction will influence if he's weakened, as well.
If we are attacked, and he completely fvckin wipes out the offenders - I'm talking about sending in 500k men and putting the US flag up permanently - people may look at the way Dubya limpdicked his way thru iraq/afghanistan, and it may give obama a little more shine.
if he does nothing, of course it weakens him. But so far, he doesn't seem like the kinda guy to do nothing. He's come in and, with a gracious smile, done everything he wanted to without an ounce of fear or pause.
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yes it does. his reaction will influence if he's weakened, as well.
If we are attacked, and he completely fvckin wipes out the offenders - I'm talking about sending in 500k men and putting the US flag up permanently - people may look at the way Dubya limpdicked his way thru iraq/afghanistan, and it may give obama a little more shine.
What are the odds of him acting like a man really?
So far he has looked like Iran's bitch and I bet terrorists are dancing in their caves.
But he has been pretty stern with Rush ::)
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enough with the repugs bro >:(
500 billion in mostly frivialous spending again this wont solve anything. They will get some rep votes in the senate but hopefully after the bill is reworked and more fat cut out.
my point is republicans in the house have just made themselves irrelevent
dems never needed them and had no reason from the beginning to consider anything they wanted.... but they still tried
the vote just told the dems not to even bother trying
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What are the odds of him acting like a man really?
So far he has looked like Iran's bitch and I bet terrorists are dancing in their caves.
But he has been pretty stern with Rush ::)
How has he acted like a bitch to iran?
He's intentionally held back announcing iran policy, while implementing a major PR plan across major arab media. He is working to undermine their collapsing public support for anti-USA sentiment, and probably working behind the scenes to find some solution.
And, ISR hasn't launched on them, which some thought they'd do, since Dubya wouldn't let ISR do that.
Terrorists all over the world are protesting him, calling him all the same names they called dubya. Sorry.. you can diss the stim bill, that's cool. But in terms of foreign affairs, he's been pretty flawless so far dude.
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my point is republicans in the house have just made themselves irrelevent
dems never needed them and had no reason from the beginning to consider anything they wanted.... but they still tried
the vote just told the dems not to even bother trying
Bush only met with congressional Dems twice in 8 years - and he NEEDED them some of that time.
Obama met with them in his first week - and he didn't even need their vote. He took some of their advice, even if they did vote against it. You *know* a few repubs smiled and said "wow, obama listened to what i said, and changed his bill", even if they did have to vote party line.
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my point is republicans in the house have just made themselves irrelevent
dems never needed them and had no reason from the beginning to consider anything they wanted.... but they still tried
the vote just told the dems not to even bother trying
They didnt need the reps to all vote against to do that that happened the moment they got an overwhelming majority bro.
you really think they where being bipartisan in the first place? i heard many times that the reps voices arent being heard.
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How has he acted like a bitch to iran?
He's intentionally held back announcing iran policy, while implementing a major PR plan across major arab media. He is working to undermine their collapsing public support for anti-USA sentiment, and probably working behind the scenes to find some solution.
And, ISR hasn't launched on them, which some thought they'd do, since Dubya wouldn't let ISR do that.
Terrorists all over the world are protesting him, calling him all the same names they called dubya. Sorry.. you can diss the stim bill, that's cool. But in terms of foreign affairs, he's been pretty flawless so far dude.
he doesnt have any foreign affairs actions yet bro how can he be flawless? gezz louise pull your head out of his ass.
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They didnt need the reps to all vote against to do that that happened the moment they got an overwhelming majority bro.
you really think they where being bipartisan in the first place? i heard many times that the reps voices arent being heard.
exactly
The Dems still made the effort and the Repugs snubbed them
which group lost value?
which group gained?
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exactly
The Dems still made the effort and the Repugs snubbed them
which group lost value?
which group gained?
neither their values remained the same...again you really think they where being bipartisan?
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neither their values remained the same...again you really think they where being bipartisan?
did you notice the bill passed?
there is no need to even make the gesture of bipartisanship anymore
you're right in one sense
the Dems were already they overwhelming winners
they tried to make a genuine gesture to the repugs (as evidenced by concessions)
and got nothing in return
I think the Repugs just devalued themselves
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he doesnt have any foreign affairs actions yet bro how can he be flawless?
He's been our President for nine days and we have not been attacked.
He's been our President for nine days and he's won major world goodwill by shutting down Gitmo and going on arab tv telling them USA is not their enemy.
He's been our President for nine days and he's gone on arab TV to diss Al-Q, and their audience maily loved it.
He's been our President for nine days and we have not been attacked. Obama has kept us safe. All this talk about our enemies waiting to test us. So far, so good.
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again you really think they where being bipartisan?
obama removed some of the parts that they requested. ;)
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did you notice the bill passed?
there is no need to even make the gesture of bipartisanship anymore
you're right in one sense
the Dems were already they overwhelming winners
they tried to make a genuine gesture to the repugs (as evidenced by concessions)
and got nothing in return
I think the Repugs just devalued themselves
again enough with the repugs bro
lol genuine gesture come on man again what concessions where made name them for me?
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How has he acted like a bitch to iran?
He's intentionally held back announcing iran policy, while implementing a major PR plan across major arab media. He is working to undermine their collapsing public support for anti-USA sentiment, and probably working behind the scenes to find some solution.
And, ISR hasn't launched on them, which some thought they'd do, since Dubya wouldn't let ISR do that.
Terrorists all over the world are protesting him, calling him all the same names they called dubya. Sorry.. you can diss the stim bill, that's cool. But in terms of foreign affairs, he's been pretty flawless so far dude.
Of course he has been flawless to you.
You are one of those creepy minions that only see a halo on top of his head.
I think it is too early to judge his Foreign Policies, I'm just saying he seems to look pretty weak sucking up to other Foreign Powers (Middle East).
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So far he has looked like Iran's bitch
Jan 28th
Officials of Barack Obama's administration have drafted a letter to Iran from the president aimed at unfreezing US-Iranian relations and opening the way for face-to-face talks, the Guardian has learned.
The US state department has been working on drafts of the letter since Obama was elected on 4 November last year. It is in reply to a lengthy letter of congratulations sent by the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, on 6 November.
Diplomats said Obama's letter would be a symbolic gesture to mark a change in tone from the hostile one adopted by the Bush administration, which portrayed Iran as part of an "axis of evil".
It would be intended to allay the suspicions of Iran's leaders and pave the way for Obama to engage them directly, a break with past policy.
State department officials have composed at least three drafts of the letter, which gives assurances that Washington does not want to overthrow the Islamic regime, but merely seeks a change in its behaviour. The letter would be addressed to the Iranian people and sent directly to Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, or released as an open letter.
One draft proposal suggests that Iran should compare its relatively low standard of living with that of some of its more prosperous neighbours, and contemplate the benefits of losing its pariah status in the west. Although the tone is conciliatory, it also calls on Iran to end what the US calls state sponsorship of terrorism.
The letter is being considered by the new secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, as part of a sweeping review of US policy on Iran. A decision on sending it is not expected until the review is complete.
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He's been our President for nine days and we have not been attacked.
He's been our President for nine days and he's won major world goodwill by shutting down Gitmo and going on arab tv telling them USA is not their enemy.
He's been our President for nine days and he's gone on arab TV to diss Al-Q, and their audience maily loved it.
He's been our President for nine days and we have not been attacked. Obama has kept us safe. All this talk about our enemies waiting to test us. So far, so good.
you got to be fuking shitting me you retard weve also lost what 200,000 jobs in the last week should we contribute that to him as well?
I understand your trying to be condescending and ignorant right now but you should really try and limit it when you can b/c most of the time you cant control it
obama removed some of the parts that they requested. ;)
LOL WHICH PARTS THE PART ABOUT SPENDING MONEY TO GIVE OUT BIRTH CONTROL OR THE PART ABOUT RESAWDING THE LAWN OF THE NATIONAL MALL....LOL well thank you for taking that shit out fuking idiot that shit shouldnt have been in there in the first place this bill is supposed to stimulate the economy and create jobs jack ass.
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Jan 28th
Officials of Barack Obama's administration have drafted a letter to Iran from the president aimed at unfreezing US-Iranian relations and opening the way for face-to-face talks, the Guardian has learned.
The US state department has been working on drafts of the letter since Obama was elected on 4 November last year. It is in reply to a lengthy letter of congratulations sent by the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, on 6 November.
Diplomats said Obama's letter would be a symbolic gesture to mark a change in tone from the hostile one adopted by the Bush administration, which portrayed Iran as part of an "axis of evil".
It would be intended to allay the suspicions of Iran's leaders and pave the way for Obama to engage them directly, a break with past policy.
State department officials have composed at least three drafts of the letter, which gives assurances that Washington does not want to overthrow the Islamic regime, but merely seeks a change in its behaviour. The letter would be addressed to the Iranian people and sent directly to Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, or released as an open letter.
One draft proposal suggests that Iran should compare its relatively low standard of living with that of some of its more prosperous neighbours, and contemplate the benefits of losing its pariah status in the west. Although the tone is conciliatory, it also calls on Iran to end what the US calls state sponsorship of terrorism.
The letter is being considered by the new secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, as part of a sweeping review of US policy on Iran. A decision on sending it is not expected until the review is complete.
I stand corrected.
He is like Attila the Hun, only meaner.
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I like repugs
It's my own creation
both symbolic and actual gestures were made
it's going to be long 4 years for the repugs
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I stand corrected.
He is like Attila the Hun, only meaner.
hahahah so he drafted a mean letter...lol
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I like repugs
It's my own creation
both symbolic and actual gestures were made
it's going to be long 4 years for the repugs
Iono if its your own creation its all over the internet at any rate its very disrespectful and since i dont go out of my way to disrepect you plz pay me the same courtesy.
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I like repugs
It's my own creation
both symbolic and actual gestures were made
it's going to be long 4 years for the repugs
It will be a long 4 years for the US, and that includes the Repugs and Fems alike.
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Iono if its your own creation its all over the internet at any rate its very disrespectful and since i dont go out of my way to disrepect you plz pay me the same courtesy.
I thought it bubbled up in my own brain but I'm sure someone else thought of it too
shit, maybe I even read it somewhere on this board
what courtesy am I supposed to be paying you?
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I thought it bubbled up in my own brain but I'm sure someone else thought of it too
shit, maybe I even read it somewhere on this board
what courtesy am I supposed to be paying you?
your not supposed to be paying me any courtesy but its out of respect that i try to not make insulting comments about liberals when talking to you so it would be nice if you wouldnt make condescending remarks about reps when talking to me.
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your not supposed to be paying me any courtesy but its out of respect that i try to not make insulting comments about liberals when talking to you so it would be nice if you wouldnt make condescending remarks about reps when talking to me.
would you feel better if I said Repubs?
Repubs use the word Lib in a pejorative sense all the time
Lib = Bad
Repug
Repub
Repube
Republican
Grand Old Party
I really don't care
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would you feel better is I said Repubs?
Repubs use the word Lib in a pejorative sense all the time
Lib = Bad
Repug
Repub
Repube
Republican
Grand Old Party
I really don't care
i really dont either but when im not taking jabs at you or your political alignment its common courtesy to not take jabs at mine, just saying is all.
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i really dont either but when im not taking jabs at you or your political alignment its common courtesy to not take jabs at mine, just saying is all.
I'm temporarily for anything Obama (like I have any choice) but I'm fickle
wait for about 5 minutes until the Dems fuck up and I'll rag on them too
Repug's, Repubes, Dems, Libs...Socialists...fuck ing Commies
I pretty much hate everyone
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I'm temporarily for anything Obama (like I have any choice) but I'm fickle
wait for about 5 minutes until the Dems fuck up and I'll rag on them too
Repug's, Repubes, Dems, Libs...Socialists...fuck ing Commies
I pretty much hate everyone
LOL that one kinda made me laugh hadnt heard that one yet
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What happens if the US is attacked on our soil?
Does this weaken him and vindicate George W?
What would 2012 look like then?
It will only cement Bush's rep as the worst president ever. Because using a page out of the braindead neocon playbook, everyone will just point and say "So? It was PLANNED during the Bush term." Since that is an acceptable line of defending Bush against his failure at 9-11.
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Straw, set aside the partisanship. This bill is cluttered with non-stimulus bullshit. The blue dog dems and republicans spoke up to protect our $.
Non-stimulus items should have been considered in another bill. This bill has been rushed through and many democrats, along with Pelosi, stuffed it with the pork that Obama said he wouldn't tolerate. Lets be very clear, the 188 that voted against it were acting in our best economic interest (at least taxpayor interest). People that don't pay federal or income taxes have no stake and will be supportive because its not their $.
The only reason their opposition didn't stop the bill is because people like you voted for an unbalance of power in our congress!
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The House Repubs got very little from Obama...maybe he wanted to give more but Nancy douchebag wouldn't allow it. The Senate is supposed to trim some fat off of this but I'm very happy that the Republicans didn't sell out.
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To me, its showing the republicans are starting to have a message. The message they should have had the last 8 yrs! Repubs should never have allowed the spending they did under Bush. Now they have to work with independents and blue dog dems to re-instate a more fiscally conservative message in our government.
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The House Repubs got very little from Obama...maybe he wanted to give more but Nancy douchebag wouldn't allow it. The Senate is supposed to trim some fat off of this but I'm very happy that the Republicans didn't sell out.
The Obama serfs on this board are all too happy with a trillion dollars of new welfare spending.
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It will only cement Bush's rep as the worst president ever. Because using a page out of the braindead neocon playbook, everyone will just point and say "So? It was PLANNED during the Bush term." Since that is an acceptable line of defending Bush against his failure at 9-11.
ah yes, that would be true.
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Straw, set aside the partisanship. This bill is cluttered with non-stimulus bullshit. The blue dog dems and republicans spoke up to protect our $.
Non-stimulus items should have been considered in another bill. This bill has been rushed through and many democrats, along with Pelosi, stuffed it with the pork that Obama said he wouldn't tolerate. Lets be very clear, the 188 that voted against it were acting in our best economic interest (at least taxpayor interest). People that don't pay federal or income taxes have no stake and will be supportive because its not their $.
The only reason their opposition didn't stop the bill is because people like you voted for an unbalance of power in our congress!
SF - I don't know every line item in the bill but I think one mans pork is another mans stimulus. Take the 200 million for contraceptives and family planning for low income families. Someone is going to be employed making the product. Someone is going to be employed doing education, etc... I think the only way to make stimulus really work is to stimulate both the suppy and demand sides of the equation. The Repubs are mostly about the supply side i.e. give wealthy people tax cuts and wait for them to take them money and do something (create a job, invest in a business, etc..). That's fine but there also needs to be a healthly labor market that can afford to buy things. What's the benefit of a tax cut to these people if they have no income in the first place. The person with a job is going to naturally ramp up demand.
To the point of bi-partisanship. The Dems made a genuine attempt and compromised and what they got was a bill that was watered down from what they originally wanted and no Repugs on board anyway (which would have been nothing more than a reciprical gesture on their part as they weren't needed anyway).
The Dems are going to get all the blame for anything that goes wrong anyway so they might as well get whatever they want in any legislation (IMO).
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I strongly disagree with the last statement. This economic stimulus bill should be limited to things that stimulate the economy and create jobs. Thats what we were told the intent was. This bill is hardly watered down, I view it as starting with some good ideas, then the democrats injected all their bullshit non-economic projects once Pelosi's committee got it from Obama. I expect the senate to remove some of it.
I saw a bunch of the stuff in there and we can't explain how it will create jobs. This is the definition of pork spending, which is a plague to Washigton when its done by either party. Its disingenuous and they just assume we the people are too clueless to call them on it.
I understand your point of increasing demand. I'm not against infrastructure spending, that will create jobs. Thats a democratic proposal. However, $335 million for STD prevention will not, or at least certainly create only a tiny fraction compared to the amount spent. Same with the contraceptives, endowment for the arts, remodeling the lawn of the white house, $4.2 BILLION for acron and neighborhood community organizations, hundreds of millions for increasing food stamps, not regulating state grants...and there are many more. Read it man, its the same old politics crap! They deceive us with our own tax money. I am appauled at the democrats over this issue.
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I don't feel like typing: Here's point - counter point from Rachel Maddow last night (includes a Republican point of view): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#28902483
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American heroes.
RIGHT ON!
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yep and zero repugs voted for it in spite of concessions by Obama and company
kind of suggests that making concessions to repugs is pointless
I wonder if it's the repug strategy to make themselves irrelevent
maybe we should just ignore everything they want
what's the difference?
HUH?No,its the republicans not signing on to a dissaster.Let the dems take the fall when this thing does ten times more damage to the economy.
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What happens if the US is attacked on our soil?
Does this weaken him and vindicate George W?
What would 2012 look like then?
America will respond like any nation when under attack.
They will circle their wagons, and rally around their President.
look at 911, ...or even Gaza as an example. Attack them, and they will unite.
That's why Pearl Harbor (both of them) worked so well.
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Bush only met with congressional Dems twice in 8 years - and he NEEDED them some of that time.
Obama met with them in his first week - and he didn't even need their vote. He took some of their advice, even if they did vote against it. You *know* a few repubs smiled and said "wow, obama listened to what i said, and changed his bill", even if they did have to vote party line.
Yeah,he met with them and said "I won we are doing it my way".Thats working together.Obama and the democrats call compromise republicans caving to them on every issue.THATS working across the aisle to them.
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Yeah,he met with them and said "I won we are doing it my way".Thats working together.Obama and the democrats call compromise republicans caving to them on every issue.THATS working across the aisle to them.
he did a lot more than that as I'm sure you know
he's already made more of an effort in 1 week than Bush did in 8 years
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again i dont know why some ppl think that by the dems cutting money earmarked for contraceptives and money ear marked for resawding a lawn of a mall is compromising with the reps. ::) LOL thats bipartisanship hahaha that shit shouldnt have been in there in the first place.
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Well, that ends our discussion then. Thats like me linking you to Rush...too partisan.
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Well, that ends our discussion then. Thats like me linking you to Rush...too partisan.
Did you even watch the link. She's talks with a Republican who voted against the stimulus package.
and Maddow is in no way an analog on to the left to Rush on the far (and ridiculous) right
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Maddow is as liberal as they come...and Rush is as conservative as they come...she just smiles.
I don't need to watch her, I have a good idea of what is going on based on spending hours on this stuff the past week.
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Maddow is as liberal as they come...and Rush is as conservative as they come...she just smiles.
I don't need to watch her, I have a good idea of what is going on based on spending hours on this stuff the past week.
whatever - I just didn't feel like typing and she hits most of the issue and the republican congressman she talks with hits most of their issues.
pretty much the same stuff we've already gone over in this thread.
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whatever - I just didn't feel like typing and she hits most of the issue and the republican congressman she talks with hits most of their issues.
pretty much the same stuff we've already gone over in this thread.
She takes her job seriously. Olbermann is just a sham, a fraud, and a joke.
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he did a lot more than that as I'm sure you know
he's already made more of an effort in 1 week than Bush did in 8 years
What concessions did he make?Are you kidding me?"I won we will do it my way".tax breaks for illegals?billions for the parks department which happens to employ a democrat congressmans kid?He wouldnt agree to ONE tax cut for buisiness.This bill was written by the totally incompetant Nany "stretch" Pelosi.It was NOT a stimulous package it was just another democratic spending package full of crap and wasting our money.Bush went at it alone and got the blame.Now Obama can do the same.
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What concessions did he make?Are you kidding me?"I won we will do it my way".tax breaks for illegals?billions for the parks department which happens to employ a democrat congressmans kid?He wouldnt agree to ONE tax cut for buisiness.This bill was written by the totally incompetant Nany "stretch" Pelosi.It was NOT a stimulous package it was just another democratic spending package full of crap and wasting our money.Bush went at it alone and got the blame.Now Obama can do the same.
exactly they conceded the money for contraceptives and the money for the resawding of a mall lawn...THESE THING SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN IN A STIMULUS BILL IN THE FIRST PLACE. what else other then that have they conceded?
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At this point I couldn't care less
Let's just get this stimulation started and see what happens
I'm more interested in seeing if Rove show's up to testify on Monday
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Hey man, I appreciate the debate. I just feel strongly on this issue. Its so much money that it needs to be the biggest issue on the table for everyone right now. knowing more of the details than most people, I want to speak out against the bill in its current state and try to get everyone to look into this more.
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Hey man, I appreciate the debate. I just feel strongly on this issue. Its so much money that it needs to be the biggest issue on the table for everyone right now. knowing more of the details than most people, I want to speak out against the bill in its current state and try to get everyone to look into this more.
Maybe you should have watched the link.
Personally, I think Obama made a stupid move, because the concessions he "added" to the bill, will do much less to stimulate the economy than many of the things he took out. Including provisions for transit in Chicago which would not only have stimulated job creation in Chicago, but also in Minnesota. I can see why some democrats may be a little bit peeved at the President right now.
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Zero Republican support? Not a good start.
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Zero Republican support? Not a good start.
Especially when all it served to do was water down the potency of the stimulus package.
The Dems have what it takes to turn this around without the Republicans, so the Republicans had better get on board with the program if they expect to gain any seats in 2010
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Zero Republican support? Not a good start.
Line in the sand time. Once this bloated welfare package fails, the Republicans will have established a new base to build off of.
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Hey man, I appreciate the debate. I just feel strongly on this issue. Its so much money that it needs to be the biggest issue on the table for everyone right now. knowing more of the details than most people, I want to speak out against the bill in its current state and try to get everyone to look into this more.
yeah - I appreciate the debate too. I'm just tired today.
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I highly suggest looking at some porn and going to an all you can eat buffet then...usually works for me.
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Jag, we've nearly spent the 700 billion dollars with the initial bailouts. This plan is another 820-1 trillion of money that we also have to borrow. Our government, on both sides, is now accustomed to over-spending and deficit spending. Its an institutional problem. The amount of interest on our national debt will be incredibly large after this. We are digging a deeper hole instead of addressing the problem's roots. We're also dooming our children to paying off our debt and with the trend of the US slipping economically, I don't know if we can ever recover.
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Line in the sand time. Once this bloated welfare package fails, the Republicans will have established a new base to build off of.
Correct.
Unless the economy improves.
Then, the dems will point at the one thing they did, the change in economy, and take full credit.
IF IF IF this bailout works, it'll be iraq Vote II for these Repub senators.
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Correct.
Unless the economy improves.
Then, the dems will point at the one thing they did, the change in economy, and take full credit.
IF IF IF this bailout works, it'll be iraq Vote II for these Repub senators.
Exactly. It's a calculated risk, but I think it has a high probability of succeeding. The Iraqi II analogy is a good one.
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Throwing $$$$ at this problem will only delay the inevitable. If a big company fails..........let it. It failed for a reason, poor management, missuse of budget, whatever it is it's internal to the company. Giving them $$$ is not going to change there method of madness.
The only way real change for the good will happen is when people hurt, hurt in their own pockets. If you do not have the $$$ for it( other than a house) do not buy it!!! People live way to close to each paycheck and yet still have a ton of electrical shit either that which they carry or have in their homes. People have cars they cannot afford. Rule of thumb when buying a car.........if it costs more than 4 months of your annual income your spending to much.
Big corp. is the same, they built way to many cars that where gas hogs. People are not going to buy them when the price of fuel goes up, but they just kept making the damn things.
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Jag, we've nearly spent the 700 billion dollars with the initial bailouts. This plan is another 820-1 trillion of money that we also have to borrow. Our government, on both sides, is now accustomed to over-spending and deficit spending. Its an institutional problem. The amount of interest on our national debt will be incredibly large after this. We are digging a deeper hole instead of addressing the problem's roots. We're also dooming our children to paying off our debt and with the trend of the US slipping economically, I don't know if we can ever recover.
I understand what you're saying. That's why I think the Republican suggestions for tax cuts were stupid inclusions for the stimulus package. If you're going to go into long term debt that will be incurred by multiple generations, ...there should be long term benefit, gained by multiple generations. That's why I believe more of that package should have been for infrastructure improvement, and not tax cuts. every dollar spent in infrastructure puts another $1.59 or so back into the economy, ...whereas every dollar spent on a tax cut puts maybe $.30, ...provided the tax cut is even spent.
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I understand what you're saying. That's why I think the Republican suggestions for tax cuts were stupid inclusions for the stimulus package. If you're going to go into long term debt that will be incurred by multiple generations, ...there should be long term benefit, gained by multiple generations. That's why I believe more of that package should have been for infrastructure improvement, and not tax cuts. every dollar spent in infrastructure puts another $1.59 or so back into the economy, ...whereas every dollar spent on a tax cut puts maybe $.30, ...provided the tax cut is even spent.
Tax cuts for buisiness allow them to expand.That means more jobs.I wish they would scrap ALL corporate taxes.Our tax base would be through the freaking roof.Our country punnishes buisiness and thats why they go elsewhere.
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Line in the sand time. Once this bloated welfare package fails, the Republicans will have established a new base to build off of.
Too bad they didn't realize they had a pair when the first "stimulus" plan was being rushed through Congress. Better late than never I guess.