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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: jcguy20 on January 28, 2009, 10:16:29 PM
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I have a couple of questions for you guys just wantedsome answers and opinions (I'm still learning) for you guys who having taken hgh what did you stack with it? And whatever you stacked did you take it long term with the hgh (from what I was told it takes awhile for hgh to start working or seeing a change maybe I'm wrong so correct me if I am) but just wanted opinions on that.
How much protein do you guys suggest when doing weight loss and trying to lean up do you guys even suggest taking protein at all?
Last question and wanted you guys opinions on t3 was thinking about taking it to cut down before I start my football training and bulking up I wanna get rid of as much fat as possible....just wanted help and opinions I come here for help not to get bashed thanks guys.
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How much protein do you guys suggest when doing weight loss and trying to lean up do you guys even suggest taking protein at all?
never used gh and dont wanna answer your question abotu t3. if your trainign for football you should be doing sprints and the like and thus i dont se any reason why you would wnat t3. combined with such activites its going to melt your body down to nothing.
as for protein intake = protein should be pretty consistant whether your dieting down or building up. about 1-1.5 grams per pound of body weight. and that is coming from meat, eggs, or milk. (egg whites and whey).
when gaining it might be a better idea to focuse more on fat and carb intake while getting protein more exclusively from whey, as it has a better amino acid profile and leads to more nitrogen retention(more growth). and using a powdered protein will allow for greater appetite, as you dont have to chew your protein. (less thermogensis from digestion too, so eating a surplus will be easier)
when dieting, it is probably a better idea to focus more on meat proteins, which digest slowly providing anti-catabolism throughtout the entire day, 24/7. meat proteins als greatly reduce the appetite, and allow you to feel like you eating quite a bit, while stil losing fat.
a nice diet schedule, whether dieting or bulking would be one meal every 4 or 5 hours. or 4-5 meals per day.
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My first question would be how old are you? There is no reason you need GH at your age.
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How much protein do you guys suggest when doing weight loss and trying to lean up do you guys even suggest taking protein at all?
Last question and wanted you guys opinions on t3 was thinking about taking it to cut down before I start my football training and bulking up I wanna get rid of as much fat as possible....just wanted help and opinions I come here for help not to get bashed thanks guys.
Protein turnover is high during dieting and the last thing you want is catabolism, so up the protein to about double what you usually would.
I don't think you need T3 for dieting, there are other means which won't have the potential for longterm sides....
Have you considered ECA?
DIV
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t3 has no more potential for long term side effects than ECA does. protein turnover is not changed based upon caloric intake. it canbe slowed or sped by the level of t3, amount of protein eaten, amount ofr androgens and other growth factors. incereasing protein when dieting is good, doubling it isnt necessary, but wont have negative effects.
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to answer musclem the gh question was not for me...im a young kid im only 20 ive cycled a couple times but never thought of gh i thought it was for older players and such (not to sound ignorant) but just my thought on it
and what im getting out of what you guys are saying is take more protein to help cut this fat or while im trying to slim down...
and i really dont understand what the eca stack is or even where to start to get it that would be helpful if you could explain it more i try and get as much knowledge as i can before i start taking shit
and the reason im asking the cutting fat down is i had knee surgury and gained some weight and lost some muscle mass and im trying to cut as much fat as soon as possible to have a better base to build on before we start spring workouts and training
our nutritionist at school is an idiot and i look at what you guys say about dieting and her side.....she sounds stupid and its not really helping its making me gain more weight and unwanted weight at that...im about 5'8 and before surgury i was 205 now im like 190 but ALOT more fat and less muscle thats why ic ame to you guys for help
thanks
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ECA is Ephedrine, Caffeine, Aspirin.
You should be able to get all these items at your local Rite Aid/Longs or whatever drug store is closest. Ask the pharmacist for a box of Bronkaid and get a bottle of low dose Aspirin, and a bottle of NoDoz.
One of each should be:
Ephedrine Sulphate 25mg
Caffeine 200mg
Aspirin 81mg
This stack in the morning, and again not too late in the afternoon.
This is all working under the assumption that there is no existing hypertension or other blood pressure problems.
You can only take this for a couple weeks before your body becomes tolerant. After witch you should take a week off, then you can start again.
This makes for a nice diet "aid", but keep in mind there is no silver bullet. Upping the cardio and reducing the poor calories is the only sure way...
Best of luck...
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so can some be more specific with good and bad calories...im not eating as much as i should just drinking alot of protein shakes through out the day
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protein turnover is not changed based upon caloric intake.
+1
The only reason that protein is increased while dieting is simply because by decreasing the amount of carbs one consumes while dieting actually causes a deficiency in the overall daily calories that is being ingested. There is still a minimum number of calories that are needed each day to support the lean muscle so the body doesn't feed off it. You lower the carbs to burn the fat, but increase the protein to overcome the calorie deficiency that is the result.
Protein turnover? Hogwash.
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using t3 just isn't worth consindering the high chance of permanent thyroid shutdown...
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using t3 just isn't worth consindering the high chance of permanent thyroid shutdown...
What evidence is there of this? There are studies of people on thyroid medications for over 30 years that come off and recover perfectly fine. I've never heard of anyone having permanent shutdown due to T3 or other thyroid meds. Anyone who's had issues is most likely due to prior problems that became aggravated.
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well everyones different, but because of the way that the thyroid works and it's negativ feedback loop, it's alot easier to be permanently shut down...
just saying i wouldnt risk it when looking at the risks vs. benifits
people have been on steroids for ages and recovered fine too, that doesn't mean that is what will happen to everyone
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Appreciate all the feedback but I see alot of negativity towardw t3
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well everyones different, but because of the way that the thyroid works and it's negativ feedback loop, it's alot easier to be permanently shut down...
just saying i wouldnt risk it when looking at the risks vs. benifits
people have been on steroids for ages and recovered fine too, that doesn't mean that is what will happen to everyone
al the research ever done on t3 and recovery after t3 usage all says that t3 production starts within days ad there isnt a chance of becoming dependant. in fact, most even go as far to say tyhat recovery is just as quick those who have been using a small amount for a week or two, as it is for people who had been using 100mcg or more for 6 months or more.
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ok ok I'll back down on this issue till I can properly base my statements on facts...
Still I'd rather do DNP than t3... but that's just me
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ok ok I'll back down on this issue till I can properly base my statements on facts...
Still I'd rather do DNP than t3... but that's just me
Oh brother. So you'd rather take rat poison to loose fat than something that's naturally produced by your body?
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ok ok I'll back down on this issue till I can properly base my statements on facts...
Still I'd rather do DNP than t3... but that's just me
:o
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What evidence is there of this? There are studies of people on thyroid medications for over 30 years that come off and recover perfectly fine. I've never heard of anyone having permanent shutdown due to T3 or other thyroid meds. Anyone who's had issues is most likely due to prior problems that became aggravated.
Alphie Newman for one and yes there are lots out there that have complications with thyroid meds just because you havent read some meatheads on steroid boards saying otherwise means shit..
The problem with the net is the public have access to med studys which all of a sudden you get idiots like dizzle walking around thinking they know wtf they are talking about..and he doesnt.
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Alphie Newman for one and yes there are lots out there that have complications with thyroid meds just because you havent read some meatheads on steroid boards saying otherwise means shit..
The problem with the net is the public have access to med studys which all of a sudden you get idiots like dizzle walking around thinking they know wtf they are talking about..and he doesnt.
+1. There are LOTS of pros that have thyroid problems from the 70's and 80's. Thyroid drugs have been around as long as steroids and bodybuilders have been using it for a long time. Frank Zane is rumored to be on permanent thryoid medication due to his past use among many others. You guys have to remember that it's VERY easy to hide health problems nowadays. Yes you can stay on thyroid medication your whole life just like you can becmoe diabetic and be on insulin your whole life. But why risk it? I would guarantee you that pros have A LOT of chronic health problems from their excessive steroid use.
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Alphie Newman for one and yes there are lots out there that have complications with thyroid meds just because you havent read some meatheads on steroid boards saying otherwise means shit..
The problem with the net is the public have access to med studys which all of a sudden you get idiots like dizzle walking around thinking they know wtf they are talking about..and he doesnt.
I'm not saying they don't exist, or that it's not possible, just that I've only heard anecdotal evidence of it. I've been off and on T3 personally for several years and have had blood work done in my time off throughout those times and never had any issues personally.
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If I were to try t3 it wouldn't be for long maybe a couple weeks or longer I've heard it's the strongest fat burner or pretty close and all this damn weight I've gained and definition I lost from knee surgery I'm willing to try anything to get a decent base before I start back workoouts....it's been hard and that's why I'm asking advice....never tried eca and clen gives me horrible headaches and the shakes and I cramp up alot.....and I hear you guys about dieting but for anyone who has been to college knows the food is bullshit and it's hard to actual follow a diet all I have is tubs of cyto gainer for my protein
But if you guys feel Eca is better than t3 I'll give it a try anymore opinions on t3?
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Alphie Newman for one and yes there are lots out there that have complications with thyroid meds just because you havent read some meatheads on steroid boards saying otherwise means shit..
The problem with the net is the public have access to med studys which all of a sudden you get idiots like dizzle walking around thinking they know wtf they are talking about..and he doesnt.
alphie newman got fat and blamed it on t3... she didnt have any actual lack of thyroid function.... what hapened was she used it for a long time durign her career and taught herself she could eat anything ad everything.... so when she came off she had no self control and got fat....
there is no complications. at least not thyroid related complications.
oh and... very classy of you to call me an idiot.. 8)
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ok ok I'll back down on this issue till I can properly base my statements on facts...
Still I'd rather do DNP than t3... but that's just me
DNP has a higher risk/reward quotient than any fatburner known to man.
You can lose more than a pound of fat per day, and you could also drop dead from heat exhaustion as well.
Unless you are familiar with the protocol and nutritional requirements accompanying DNP, I suggest you stay away.
It's not something to dabble in.......
DIV
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alphie newman got fat and blamed it on t3... she didnt have any actual lack of thyroid function.... what hapened was she used it for a long time durign her career and taught herself she could eat anything ad everything.... so when she came off she had no self control and got fat....
there is no complications. at least not thyroid related complications.
oh and... very classy of you to call me an idiot.. 8)
Do you know Alphie Newman? or is this just board chatter ::)
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Do you know Alphie Newman? or is this just board chatter ::)
Do you know her?
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+1. There are LOTS of pros that have thyroid problems from the 70's and 80's. Thyroid drugs have been around as long as steroids and bodybuilders have been using it for a long time. Frank Zane is rumored to be on permanent thryoid medication due to his past use among many others.
The first sentence sounds like you are reporting fact but then you insert that word in your one example. Which pros do you know for a fact have permanent thyroid problems? Since there are multitudes of them you should be able to give one example.
Same with the insulin use. I can't count how many rumors I've heard about this or that pro being diabetic due to insulin use but AFAIK there's not a single one who has come forward and said this publicly. Is this side effect being kept private for some special reason?
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Do you know her?
Do you?
She has said what caused her down fall..but now we get "steroid gurus" on the internet who spend more time reading studys claiming she is lying and it wasnt thyroid med use that caused her down fall.. ::)
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man im not trying to sound stupid but wtf is dnp
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man im not trying to sound stupid but wtf is dnp
Dinitrophenol.
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ooo ive researched it....it seems a little more potent but alot sides than most why isnt that talked about more than t3 and celn if its oso good
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ooo ive researched it....it seems a little more potent but alot sides than most why isnt that talked about more than t3 and celn if its oso good
It's talked about quite a bit on other boards. I've never used it and don't plan on ever touching it. Research what other things it's used in and you'll know why. It can be deadly if not dosed properly.
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sounds shitty....i see that now I dont think I would risk it....monday ill start my first eca stack have you ever triedthat before and how were your results?
i tried clen and i hated it i stopped after a week horrible cramps and headaches I couldnt take it
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sounds shitty....i see that now I dont think I would risk it....monday ill start my first eca stack have you ever triedthat before and how were your results?
i tried clen and i hated it i stopped after a week horrible cramps and headaches I couldnt take it
I like ECA it works well with little sides. I'm not a huge fan of Clen either, it is effective but I get really jittery on it.
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Do you?
No. Just curious if you had a first hand account. You can't blame me for being skeptical. You know how rumors about health problems are in this community and athletes aren't always truthful themselves.
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No. Just curious if you had a first hand account. You can't blame me for being skeptical. You know how rumors about health problems are in this community and athletes aren't always truthful themselves.
yeah a few weeks ago van b said he had a few kidneys on ice in his fridge, but he was joking so you can't really take anything for face value now days.
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No. Just curious if you had a first hand account. You can't blame me for being skeptical. You know how rumors about health problems are in this community and athletes aren't always truthful themselves.
Skepticism is warranted in this industry.
So many of these people live and die by rumors that it's fucking ridiculous.
Unless you know the person or one of their close friends, you've got to really take it all with a grain of salt.
DIV
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I'd like to chime in and play devil's advocate to the original poster.
You are 20 years old. You can run GH safely and effectively but given it's abuse on the joints since you play football I would go IM not sub Q and get an IGF-1 release instead of going for straight fat burning. If you do go Sub-Q I would keep it at a low dose say 2 iu's ED. 3 times a week administration post workout into the muscles you just worked out at a good moderate dose will help if you go the IM route. Make sure you inject bi-laterally. Shouldn't have to worry about thyroid down regulation too much to employ T-4 from IM administration.
As for T-3, scrap that idea. If you want to play with Thyroid hormones research T-4 and TSH output. This should point you in the right direction. If you run GH Sub-Q you better be running a small dose of T-4.
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Skepticism is warranted in this industry.
So many of these people live and die by rumors that it's fucking ridiculous.
Unless you know the person or one of their close friends, you've got to really take it all with a grain of salt.
DIV
Isn't this the truth.