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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Coach on February 08, 2009, 11:07:45 AM
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Alex Rodriquez was supposed to be the guy who saved baseball, the way that Mark McGwire did in 1998. He was supposed to ride in and save the home run record from the clutches of suspected steroid user Barry Bonds. He was supposed to be the guy who would show that clean players could be just as prolific as the cheaters.
But that's all changed now, in the aftermath of Saturday's report by SI.com's Selena Roberts and David Epstein that Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003. Rodriguez wouldn't respond to the information in the report, but anything he says really isn't going to change the fact that this will stick to him forever.
All McGwire said was that he did not want to talk about the past, and he is essentially persona non grata, and so is Rafael Palmeiro, who wagged a finger at congressmen and insisted that he never used steroids. Roger Clemens is not really wanted at the Astros' spring training home anymore, the way he once was, and he probably will never get in the Hall of Fame, either. Probably, none of them will, including Bonds and Rodriguez. This is a scarlet letter that really will never go away.
You can argue reasonably that this scrutiny is unfair, that the context of a positive drug test for A-Rod is lost. The whole sport had done a lousy job, as George Mitchell announced, from the union leaders to management to the clean players themselves. The sport essentially fostered a culture of drug use through its inaction, and many players have said they believe the use of performance-enhancing drugs, especially at the outset of this decade, was rampant.
In 2003, the players knew they would be tested for performance-enhancing drugs, and had a pretty good idea of when they would be tested -- and yet presumably, at least 104 barreled ahead and peed into bottles when they knew there was a chance they would be dirty; reportedly, A-Rod was among those. You could call it arrogance, you could call it brazen -- or you could call it typical of the times. A whole lot of players were doing stuff, everybody knew it was going on, and the sport simply hadn't reacted in the way that it should have.
- EnlargeAP Photo/Kathy Willens
Alex Rodriguez will no longer be looked at as a clean player.But context really won't save Rodriguez now, because he has the gaudiest numbers on the back of his baseball card, and as we've seen with the steroid fallout, it's the superstars who have the most to lose. Other players have been linked to steroids or human growth hormone and moved on, whether it be Andy Pettitte or Brian Roberts or Eric Gagne or Matt Herges. Record-holders, however, are simply held to a different standard, because they have performed at a different standard. Millions of dollars have been spent on Pettitte and Roberts and Gagne and Herges, in compensation for their play, while millions are being spent in pursuit of Clemens and Bonds, by federal investigators.
A couple of years ago, ESPN.com polled a large number of Hall of Fame voters about whom they intended to vote for, and only about 50 percent said they would vote for Sammy Sosa, who has been the subject of steroid speculation for years. There has been evidence of steroid use linked to McGwire, and less than a quarter of the voters put his name on their ballot, a strong indication that he'll never get in the Hall of Fame. Nobody linked to this issue probably will.
And now Alex Rodriguez has been linked.
If he says nothing and it's all true -- and there's no reason to think that the report is inaccurate -- Rodriguez might have legitimate questions about why the union didn't do a better job on his behalf, questions about how in the heck information that was supposed to be kept confidential got out.
If he acknowledges it's all true, it might make his life a little easier; he saw firsthand how Pettitte and Giambi acknowledged their past use and moved on.
But either way, whether he says nothing or says a lot, he's tarnished forever.
He can blame the union or baseball management; he might blame someone with the federal government for leaking the information. He could rightly wonder how some members of the media could naively put him on that Clean Guy pedestal in 2007; apparently, the lesson was not learned that we can never know for certain who is clean and who isn't.
He can blame himself.
But no matter whom he blames, Rodriguez will no longer be looked at as the guy who is going to save the home run record from Bonds, who, year by year, is increasingly surrounded by context and doesn't look quite so bad.
A-Rod will no longer be looked at in the same way. It might be fair, it might be unfair, but as Brian McNamee would say, it is what it is.
Buster Olney is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine. He updates his blog each morning on ESPN.com.
http://momentumperform.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=sportnews&action=display&thread=44
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maybe this will help people accept the fact that they all use something
this is the steroid era
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i think it opens up people to the fact that most of their heroes in most sports do have some sort of sports technology assistance.
Maybe it's testosterone. Maybe it's a shitload of vitamin B. Or prohormones. Or anything else. Either you're obsessed with what guys take, or you don't care. personally, as long as they don't talk about their use (which influences high school kids to use) I see no problem with atheltes using. Makes the game much more fun to watch, when they're faster and stronger and able to do more things, and stay healthy too
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Something tells me the bling and flash of his $500,000,000 in cumulative baseball earnings will out shine the tarnish on his image.
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i think it opens up people to the fact that most of their heroes in most sports do have some sort of sports technology assistance.
I've always assumed this to be the case.
The thing I don't get, is that 4 unnamed sources are still 4 unnamed sources, yet everyone accepts it as truth becasue SI reported it.
I don't get how we're supposed to accept that 4 individual people, all with access to legally sealed files, all were willing to leak information pertaining to ARod, yet nobody else. That doesn't make sense.
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it wouldn't surprise me if all these guys were inducted into the hall of fame posthumously and issued formal apologies years after their deaths, as they are portrayed as men far ahead of their time once hormone use is more socially acceptable down the road.
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Didn't Chipper Jones predict this last year?
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I can remember when the first whispers about Bonds started and idiots were saying "steroids won't do you any good in baseball..." ::) hahaha, yeah, the numbers just magically went up. If they didn't help, these guys wouldn't take them.
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I'd like to know why the players union has defended it's players, (a-rod and bonds) and absolutely kill the owners in court for all these test results coming out.
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I don't get how we're supposed to accept that 4 individual people, all with access to legally sealed files, all were willing to leak information pertaining to ARod, yet nobody else. That doesn't make sense.
Bingo !!!
ARod has a case there ...MLB will be forced to release the other 103 names of that list to make it fear "non personal" to ARod.....
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They all use drugs... Just fucking accept it and move on.
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Yep.
And since A-Rod can't get it done in the clutch, he can put up monster numbers but he will never be beloved by Yankee fans. Derek Jeter is still the toast of New York and is sitting back smilling at all this while polishing his four World Series rings.
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Yep.
And since A-Rod can't get it done in the clutch, he can put up monster numbers but he will never be beloved by Yankee fans. Derek Jeter is still the toast of New York and is sitting back smilling at all this while polishing his four World Series rings.
But in his mind Jeter knows he will never as famous as A-Rod, not will he be considered as talented, or as rich.. A-Rod is not the dominant type which is why he never got to the promise land, and on top of that he never has others stepping up for him as Jeter did have.
Not being the 'alpha' types really hurt A-Rod, especially in NYC where you need to not worry and just do your thing.
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But in his mind Jeter knows he will never as famous as A-Rod, not will he be considered as talented, or as rich..
What are you blabbing about? Jeter is plenty rich and plenty famous. Being the King of New York (Jeter), America's largest media market, and the most well liked and respected person on the most famous franchise in the world gives you all the "fame" you need. ;)
Trust me when I tell you, A-Rod is more jealous of Jeter than the other way around. Just check out Torre's book if you don't already know this.
The Yankees and Yankee fans are all about winning CHAMPIONSHIPS. If you are from New York you certainly know that.
A-Rod is not the dominant type which is why he never got to the promise land, and on top of that he never has others stepping up for him as Jeter did have.
When you make $25 million you need to BECOME the dominate type. Fans expect this from you. A-Rod needs to step up himself. You can't strike out, hit into double plays and hit pop ups in the playoffs and then say,"my team mates didn't get it done." ::) You have to lead by example. Jeter came through time and again in big spots, whereas A-Rod tightens up.
Not being the 'alpha' types really hurt A-Rod, especially in NYC where you need to not worry and just do your thing.
A-Rod's problem is that he is a prima-donna who is always concerned about how he is perceived by others. He is a phenomenal talent but a terribly insecure individual.
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maybe this will help people accept the fact that they all use something
this is the steroid era
E
I dont get it either.
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A-Rod's problem is that he is a prima-donna who is always concerned about how he is perceived by others. He is a phenomenal talent but a terribly insecure individual.
Yeah, he should stop worrying it just kills him.
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maybe this will help people accept the fact that they all use something
this is the steroid era
E
Exactly. People need to get over it already. All sports are "using". Even pageants like bbing have abusers.
The Olympics are the biggest users of all, and those fuckers are glorified every couple of years. It's the age we live in.
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as long as they don't talk about their use (which influences high school kids to use) I see no problem with atheltes using.
not talking about the use IS the problem.
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I don't care how much money he makes I always thought he was a clown. Now with that said. I kind of feel bad for him, why? What he does is his business, and whatever it takes to make him a better ball player is fine with me. He isn't a bad influence for no one! The losers, which we know are most likely old, ugly and uneducated, the ones that brought this to light and feel it's wrong are the ones who help make juice popular.
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It's not the drugs with A-Rod. Lots of great players are on drugs. People forget there are still 103 more players on the list that outed A-Rod. Chances are there are more stars on that list.
The reason A-Rod was outed and the reason A-Rod is a fraud is his attitude. Most all of his peers think he is a clown, and he reeks of bullshit. Couple that with all the delusional Yankee fans and baseball writers who claimed Alex 'was doing it the right way' and viola.
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Yep.
And since A-Rod can't get it done in the clutch, he can put up monster numbers but he will never be beloved by Yankee fans. Derek Jeter is still the toast of New York and is sitting back smilling at all this while polishing his four World Series rings.
Don't be so quick to say Jeter will not be on that list. There are still 103 other players on that list. Jeter is loved in NYC because he is not a d-bag like A-Rod.
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Don't be so quick to say Jeter will not be on that list. There are still 103 other players on that list. Jeter is loved in NYC because he is not a d-bag like A-Rod.
True; Jeter knows how to play the PR game much better than A-Rod. Thing with A-Rod is that he is still going to pocket more than half a bil when all is said and done. Stats and numbers are for the fans are dorks working at ESPN/SI who think these things matter...
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lol the writers were praying to god that he would hit more home runs than bonds ;D
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lol the writers were praying to god that he would hit more home runs than bonds ;D
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Those guys are so damn dumb.
"The integrity of the sport"
"Playing the game with class and honor"
"The history of the game"
When are people going to figure out sports are right up there with religion as opiates for the masses?
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True; Jeter knows how to play the PR game much better than A-Rod. Thing with A-Rod is that he is still going to pocket more than half a bil when all is said and done. Stats and numbers are for the fans are dorks working at ESPN/SI who think these things matter...
True. Futher more, Jeter is a dirt dog, a gamer....a guy who doesent point directly at the outfielders (surveying their depth in the field which is baseball 101 when on base), to let everyone know he is doing the right thing (like A-Rod does).
A-Rod is that guy and he may be crazy rich, but he will always be remembered as a choker and an arrogant dick who was hated by his peers. Jeter is a guy Sox fans would take all day and twice on Sundays. I think the same can be said for Yanks fans with Youk or Dustin.
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When you make $25 million you need to BECOME the dominate type. Fans expect this from you. A-Rod needs to step up himself. You can't strike out, hit into double plays and hit pop ups in the playoffs and then say,"my team mates didn't get it done." ::) You have to lead by example. Jeter came through time and again in big spots, whereas A-Rod tightens up.
I agree with you on the first sentence, and I agree with your assessment of the fans expectations. You're spot on.
The problem is, ARod IS dominate. There's a perception that he chokes in the clutch. Yes, he has yet to have a huge playoff series outside of one ALDS vs. Minnesota, but, in those Yankee losses, it was a team failure, where the Yankees ran into completely dominate pitching. In other words, they all sucked. I can't think of a case where ARod played poorly and many other Yankees exceled.
You can't put up numbers like his and not hit in clutch situations. He's hit big HRs off Papelbon, Schilling, etc. There's just the notion out there that since he makes so much money, he should get a hit every single time he's up in the ninth inning. His last MVP season, he was running neck and neck with David Ortiz, and fans (and pundits) were making the argument that Ortiz should win with poorer numbers because he was so "clutch". But, when the numbers were actually looked at that year, ARod had more HRs to put his team in the lead, or when there was less than a three run differential. And Ortiz had more HRs when his team was ahead by 5 or more. But Ortiz was labeled the clutch guy, and ARod was the choker.
That said, I think ARod is a complete head case who does worry about how things look. He reacts in a way the makes the prophecy of failure self fulfilling. He's a complete idiot.
What's next with this guy? He's got to be gay. Might as well start with Gay-Roid now, because you know it's comng.
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What are you blabbing about? Jeter is plenty rich and plenty famous. Being the King of New York (Jeter), America's largest media market, and the most well liked and respected person on the most famous franchise in the world gives you all the "fame" you need. ;)
Missed this. 100% accurate. If there's any jealousy, it's ARod jealous of Jeter.
Their supposed rift is overblown though. They just don't hang out as much as they used to. Mussina said he spent tons of time with them over the years and never saw anything. Other players have verified this. The media just wants them to hate each other.
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(http://www3.allaroundphilly.com/blogs/trentonian/yankeessuck/uploaded_images/arod.bmp-732811.jpg)